Democracy

[Muslim Soldier]

:sl:

I think this forum has too many unislamic restrictions. I think it would be wise if the members were given the oppurtunity to make some rules (islamic ones) which are then voted for.

I also think the ban on secreterian issues should be lifted. The best way to become united is to understand our differences.

:w:

[Ghazi]

:sl:

No way I won't vist this fourm anymore if sectarian issues are discussed this causes confusion and someone might link to an inovation or something, if anyone wants to learn about diffrent sects then they should go and do their own reaserch but this forum is to unite the ummah.

[Umm Yoosuf]

:w:

I think this forum has too many unislamic restrictions. I think it would be wise if the members were given the oppurtunity to make some rules (islamic ones) which are then voted for.

We do take suggestion in account, so do you have anything you want to suggest?

I also think the ban on secreterian issues should be lifted. The best way to become united is to understand our differences.

This has been discussed many times and i don't think it will ever happen.

[Islamicboy]

If you want to learn about other sect this is the site for you www.allaahuakbar.net

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[Muslim Soldier]

I hear it again and again. This forum is to unite the muslims. ...
And I have posted many a times, to unite, we need to know our differences.

I have one question. Since this is a muslim forum, why is it that non-sunni references are rejected?

I would be pleased if the claims are responded to.

[Muslim Soldier]

If you want to learn about other sect this is the site for you www.allaahuakbar.net

Yeah right! I would visit that site if I wanted to burn in ****

[Islamicboy]

Yeah right! I would visit that site if I wanted to burn in ****

Whats wrong with that site?

[Malaikah]

Since this is a muslim forum, why is it that non-sunni references are rejected?

:sl:

isnt that becuase the prophet told us to reject innovations in the religion and follow only the Quran and his sunnah? and thats what sunni is isnt it?:rollseyes

[BlissfullyJaded]

:sl:

Exactly. You don't really expect us to allow things that are not from the Quran and Sunnah, do you?

Anyway, if you want to understand sects and divisions, there is a forum that is dedicated to explaining that. :) If you want to discuss, that is impossible, as there are no scholars on this board. How can unknowledgeable members discuss topics they know nothing about?

[Bittersteel]

Exactly. You don't really expect us to allow things that are not from the Quran and Sunnah, do you?

what about computers,internet?lol.

[SirZubair]

If you want to learn about other sect this is the site for you www.allaahuakbar.net

Yes,every half-brain bearing tom **** and harry loves visiting that website.

My suggestion is,avoid that website at all costs.

Or

Being as arrogant as those that have started that website.

Wa'salaam.

Yeah right! I would visit that site if I wanted to burn in ****

You said it.

Whats wrong with that site?

Gee,...have you even read any of the articles on there?

It has pretty much condemned half of the Ummah to hell,because not everyone meets eye-to-eye with 'their people'.

They have labeled some of the greatest scholors as "the Modern Deviated Sufis". Such as Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.And shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller.

According to them,i am going to hell,because i dont follow their imam,because im somewhat-a-sufi.

Most of my friends,all of my relatives,and I have all been condemned to hell.

Who cares about ALlahs judgement right? It seems like 'the followers of the quran and sunnah' have taken over the judging role in the 21st century.

Woohoo,please,do pay me a visit,..and when you do come by,bring me a jug of ice cold water.

You know what AMAZES me?and at the same time makes me WEEP for this ummah?

HOw people are willing and able to find the Most learned Doctors to learn from,go to the best universitys to learn about their chosen profession,..But when it comes to Islam,they grab hold of Any person out there who has a Copy of the Holy QUran in his hand just because he claims to "follow the sunnah and the quran",..I really wish some of you kids will open your eyes and try finding out abit about what/who you are following.

And as far as "im following the quran and the sunnah" goes,not everyone (i bet most of you people) do not have the understanding of the Quran.Over and over i read articles written by people that "follow the sunnah and quran" in which they twist nearly every verse from the Quran to make it suit them.Find a Scholor (yes,...astugfirullah,someone like shaykh hamza yusuf..) who can explain things to you properly.

That is my advise to all of you.

If you want it,take it.

If you dont want it,i couldnt care less.

Im simply doing my part for this Ummah.An ummah which has condemned half of its brothers and sisters for not seeing eye-to-eye with them. Astugfirullah.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair

Now lets see if democracy really exists,lets see if this post remain here for longer the afew hours.

Go on,suprise me ;)

[Daffodil]

Asalamulaikum

Mashallah, Allahuakbar.net is a brilliant site that is blunt n to the point May Allah swt reward them abundantly for being free from innovations n the like, ameen. Its all about practicing the REAL Islam, before all the innovations n weirdness came about. The Islam that the prophet saw practiced and his companions (salaf) practiced

In authentic hadith in Ahmad, Abu Dawud and Al-Hakim, on the authority of Muaawiyyah bin Abi Sufyaan, the Prophet (SAWS) said: “My Ummah will split into 73 sects, all of whom will be in the Hell Fire except one (the Saved Sect, known in Arabic as the Firqatun-Naajeyah).” Upon being asked which that Saved Sect was, he (SAWS) replied, “The one that I and my companions are on.” Therefore, if one’s Aqeedah is in contradiction to the Aqeedah of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jama’ah and he dies upon that belief, he is under the threat of being sent by Allah (SWT) to the Hell Fire. If He wishes, He will punish him, or if He wishes, He will forgive him.

May Allah swt save us from all these groups n innovations n deviants. Ameen.

This site is brilliant in that it condones sectarian issues in order to bring the ummah together rather then quarral/argue/belittle our brothers and sisters.

[sonz]

They have labeled some of the greatest scholors as "the Modern Deviated Sufis". Such as Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.And shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller.

hamza yusuf and nuh keller r some of the greatest scholars???

lol. no offence but u need to read alot more material other than hamza yusuf and nuh keller.

and how can they be "big scholars" if theyre arent accepted by half of the muslim population. most of them view them as callers to islam or minor scholars.

masalama

[SirZubair]

hamza yusuf and nuh keller r some of the greatest scholars???

lol. no offence but u need to read alot more material other than hamza yusuf and nuh keller.

and how can they be "big scholars" if theyre arent accepted by half of the muslim population. most of them view them as callers to islam or minor scholars.

masalama

Akhi,i am not going to have a 'my shaykh/scholor is better than yours...' debate with you today,tommorrow,or any other day.

That is the only point you picked up in my entire post?

Kheir,since you've pointed it out,..fine,if you dont consider them to be great scholors,then so be it.

Regardless of that fact,No muslim has the rights to call another muslim a Kaffir.
A believing servant does not lose their faith except by denying something that made them a believer in the first place. So until a Muslim denys the Shahada that he took,he is a muslim up until his final momment in this world.

So please,stick to the issues that i have presented,dont get side-tracked.

Shukran.

Wa'salaam.

[Taqiyah]

[QUOTE=SirZubair;372747]Regardless of that fact,No muslim has the rights to call another muslim a Kaffir.
A believing servant does not lose their faith except by denying something that made them a believer in the first place. So until a Muslim denys the Shahada that he took,he is a muslim up until his final momment in this world.

Wa'salaam.[/QUOTE]

Asalama Alikum.
My dad used to be a good muslim but somehow he changed and now he doesn't pray and sometimes even says bad things about our Prophet:heated: Mohamed...but he never denied the Shahada and he still believes he is a muslim and does'nt like to be called Kaffir:grumbling .......So why Can't we call him Kaffir because he says bad things about the Prophet?:uhwhat

[SirZubair]

Asalam alaikum.

Asalamulaikum

Mashallah, Allahuakbar.net is a brilliant site that is blunt n to the point May Allah swt reward them abundantly for being free from innovations n the like, ameen. Its all about practicing the REAL Islam, before all the innovations n weirdness came about. The Islam that the prophet saw practiced and his companions (salaf) practiced

You got that right,..it is a Blunt website.

As for 'the salaf',..there is a difference between the Salaf of That time and the Salaf of This time.

I wont bother pointing out what the difference is,that can be your homework for the week.

In authentic hadith in Ahmad, Abu Dawud and Al-Hakim, on the authority of Muaawiyyah bin Abi Sufyaan, the Prophet (SAWS) said: “My Ummah will split into 73 sects, all of whom will be in the Hell Fire except one (the Saved Sect, known in Arabic as the Firqatun-Naajeyah).” Upon being asked which that Saved Sect was, he (SAWS) replied, “The one that I and my companions are on.” Therefore, if one’s Aqeedah is in contradiction to the Aqeedah of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jama’ah and he dies upon that belief, he is under the threat of being sent by Allah (SWT) to the Hell Fire. If He wishes, He will punish him, or if He wishes, He will forgive him.

The sects that i can think of from the top of my head that Have deviated are : the mu'tazila,the Jahmiyya,the Karramiyya,the Qadariyya and the Jabariyya.

According to your holy website,allahhuakbar.net, Tabligh Jamaat is a sect along with Shi'ites,..when did they become 'sects'?

At the end of the day,....

ALLAH SWT is the ALL KNOWING. You are not.

ALLAH SWT is the ALL SEEING. You are not.

ALLAH SWT is the ALL HEARING. You are not.

So if you see not,hear not and Know not,..then speak not. :X

Allah swt gave us life,let him be the judge. He is the lord of the judgement day,not you and i.So please,leave that attribute to allah swt and carry on living life and carry on working on yourself. Stop condemning others to hell.

May Allah swt save us from all these groups n innovations n deviants. Ameen.

May allah guide you from yourself. Ameen.

This site is brilliant in that it condones sectarian issues in order to bring the ummah together rather then quarral/argue/belittle our brothers and sisters.

OH the hypocrisy !

O' ALlah,open her eyes! :rollseyes

One minute your put down everyone out there who doesnt see eye-to-eye with 'your aqeedah' and the next minute you are saying how brilliant it is tht this forum condones Sectarian issues,.. :?

Here,...i'll make it easier for you...

Pick One.

You cant choose both options,either you completly condone it,or you dont.

By the way,most of what i've said,..even though it was 'directed at you',its a message to everyone.

please,before you jump into your suit of armour and grab a hold of a tissue paper to dry your eyes, (in other words,before you start becoming over protective), learn to have an open mind.

Allah swt knows who is right and who is wrong,YOU knowledge is very limited.

Leave it at that.

Wa'salaaa,

-Zubair

[SirZubair]

Asalama Alikum.
My dad used to be a good muslim but somehow he changed and now he doesn't pray and sometimes even says bad things about our Prophet:heated: Mohamed...but he never denied the Shahada and he still believes he is a muslim and does'nt like to be called Kaffir:grumbling .......So why Can't we call him Kaffir because he says bad things about the Prophet?:uhwhat

You can call your dad whatever you want to call your dad.

Personally,i wouldnt call him a Kaffir,as far as i am concerned (along with my 'deviant/kaffir friends),He is a muslim as long as he doesnt denounce the Shahada.

He may be a non-practising Muslim,but still a muslim.

And leave the rest to Allah swt.

It is not in your hands or mine.

Wa'salaam.

[SirZubair]

By the way,lets make one thing very clear.

I do not support anyone who says "lets allow Sectarian issues to be debated.."

At the end of the day,i am Glad this forum doesnt allow Sectarian issues.

But still,at the end of the day,my beef is with the fact that the Moderators have allowed a section to exist which puts down all other 'sects' and doesnt allow anyone to defend their beliefs.

Lets all try to be alittle bit more open minded.

Remember,Islam is the Middle way.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair

[sonz]

salama

too much argumentation

people love to argue about such silly things. argumentation is fitnah

please close this topic

masalama

[SirZubair]

salama

too much argumentation

people love to argue about such silly things. argumentation is fitnah

please close this topic

masalama

Once again,...why does this happen everytime i bring up an issue?

You are always going on and on about the Ummah,how bad things are for the Ummah,..how about we try to resolve some of these issues?

Ofcourse that will never happen if we carry on turning our backs to these issues on one hand,and carry on pointing the finger at 'the other sects' on the other hand.

You know what,dont bother closing this thread,leave it open.

I've said all i need to say,for those out there who like to think,THINK.

For those who like to blindly follow any man who grabs a copy of the Quran and claims to be following "the sunnah of Muhammed (saw) and the Quran",go ahead.

This life is yours,choose what you do with it wisely.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair

:thankyou:

[snakelegs]

Once again,...why does this happen everytime i bring up an issue?

You are always going on and on about the Ummah,how bad things are for the Ummah,..how about we try to resolve some of these issues?

Ofcourse that will never happen if we carry on turning our backs to these issues on one hand,and carry on pointing the finger at 'the other sects' on the other hand.

You know what,dont bother closing this thread,leave it open.

I've said all i need to say,for those out there who like to think,THINK.

For those who like to blindly follow any man who grabs a copy of the Quran and claims to be following "the sunnah of Muhammed (saw) and the Quran",go ahead.

This life is yours,choose what you do with it wisely.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair

:thankyou:

well said.

[sonz]

Once again,...why does this happen everytime i bring up an issue?

You are always going on and on about the Ummah,how bad things are for the Ummah,..how about we try to resolve some of these issues?

Ofcourse that will never happen if we carry on turning our backs to these issues on one hand,and carry on pointing the finger at 'the other sects' on the other hand.

You know what,dont bother closing this thread,leave it open.

I've said all i need to say,for those out there who like to think,THINK.

For those who like to blindly follow any man who grabs a copy of the Quran and claims to be following "the sunnah of Muhammed (saw) and the Quran",go ahead.

This life is yours,choose what you do with it wisely.

Wa'salaam.

-Zubair

:thankyou:

chk


Prohibition of Disputation in Religion

Imam al-Barbahaaree
Sharh us-Sunnah
© 1995 Al-Haneef Publications



…If someone comes to debate with you, beware of him. For debating involves argumentation, disputing, seeking to overcome, wrangling and anger. You have been forbidden from all of this. It diverts you both away from the truth. It has not reached us that any of our scholars or people of knowledge argued, debated or disputed. Al-Hasan (al-Basree) said, "The wise man does not argue or seek to overcome with stratagem rather he propagates his wisdom. If it is accepted he praises Allaah and if it is rejected he praises Allaah."


[Reported by Abu Nu`aim ibn Hammaad in his Zawaa'id `alaz-Zuhd libnil Mubaarak (no. 30) and Ibn Battah in Ibaanatul-Kubraa (no. 611). Its isnaad is weak, since it contains an unnamed narrator.]

A man came to al-Hasan (al-Basree) and said, "I wish to debate with you about the Religion." Al-Hasan replied, "I know my Religion. If you have lost your Religion go out and look for it."
[Reported by al-Aajurree in ash-Sharee`ah (p. 57), al-Laalikaa'ee in as-Sunnah (no. 215) and Ibn Battah (no. 586) and it is saheeh.]

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) heard some people arguing outside his apartment, one of them saying, 'Did not Allaah say so and so?' and the other saying, 'Did not Allaah say so and so?' So he came out angry and said, "Is this what I have ordered you, or is this what I was sent with, that you should set one part of the Book of Allaah against some other parts?"

[Reported by Ahmad (2/178, 181 and 196), Ibn Maajah (no. 85), `Abdullaah ibn Ahmad in as-Sunnah (no. 86) and al-Baghawee in Sharhus-Sunnah (1/260). Al-Boosayree declared it saheeh in Zawaa'id Ibn Maajah (1/4) as did al-Albaanee in Sharh `Aqeedah at-Tahaawiyyah (p. 218)] So he forbade them from argumentation.

Ibn `Umar used to hate disputation as did Maalik ibn Anas and those greater and lesser than him right up to this day.

The Sayings of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, is greater than the sayings of His creation. Allaah, the Most High says:
"None dispute in the Aayaat (signs, proofs) of Allaah except those who disbelieve." [Soorah Ghaafir (40):4]

A man asked `Umar ibn al-Khattaab: What is
"Those (angels) who gently take out (the souls of the believers)?" [Soorah an-Naazi`aat (79):2]

He said, "If your head were shaved, I would have beheaded you."
[Shaving his head was the sign of the Khawaarij. The man who asked `Umar was called Sabeegh. His story is well-known and authentic. It is reported by ad-Daarimee (1/51), Ibn Waddah in al-Bida`h (p.56), al-Aajurree in ash-Sharee`ah (p. 73), al-Laalikaa'ee in as-Sunnah (pp. 634-636) and Ibn Battan (1/414-415)

The Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) said, "The Believer does not dispute and I will not intercede on the Day of Resurrection for those who dispute, so leave arguing for its lack of good."

[This hadeeth is very weak, as declared by al-Haithumee in Majma` uz-Zawaa'id (1/156, 725). Reported by at-Tabaraanee in al-Kabeer (8/178-179) and al-Aajurree in ash-Sharee`ah (pp. 55-56).

http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=350

i think the adminz clarified everything. u can only debate if u have big time knowledge like admin ansar. i dont have much knowledge so dont u so we shouldnt be disputing at all but increase our knowledge like adminz said.

masalama

[Abdul-Raouf]

:sl:


I also think the ban on secreterian issues should be lifted. The best way to become united is to understand our differences.

:w:

yeah u r right

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Among the obvious reasons for which we disallow sectarian debates are those which are becoming apparent in this very thread. We have sarcasm, degradation and silly comments that would be better left out of a "discussion" on such sensitive issues.

Regarding allaahuakbar.net, I don't visit that site but from what I have heard, it apparently contains inappropriate material yet not everything on there is to be rejected.

Regarding the issue of following the Qur'an and the Sunnah, I am sure most of us would have the sense to find someone who can do more than merely hold a copy of the Qur'an. I do not know why the same names are propagated every time these issues crop up; suffice it to say that we should follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah and all scholars who are in accordance with them. It should not be a surprise that when something incorrect is being advertised, then it is removed - as is our responsibility to do so. If you have a problem with it, you are advised to contact us via pm and perhaps you will get a detailed explanation and an opportunity to offer any explanations of your own.

But still,at the end of the day,my beef is with the fact that the Moderators have allowed a section to exist which puts down all other 'sects' and doesnt allow anyone to defend their beliefs.

This has been addressed many times, see for example:

http://www.islamicboard.com/335000-post4.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/84061-post18.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/329183-post15.html

I think this forum has too many unislamic restrictions.

Please let us know which of our rules are unIslamic (via pm), and we will be happy to correct them, Insha'Allaah.

:threadclo

:w: