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Taqiyah
06-24-2006, 08:38 PM
Asalama Alaikum...
:) Ok..there is this forum where christians and Muslims debate about their religions...which religion is right and why they think its right....u know..stuff like that... So,I wrote a little article about Islam and y I chose to be a Muslim:sister: and posted it on that forum....3 days later I got this reply from some christian woman.:rant: So,I really need help writing a very good article that proves her wrong....please Help:rollseyes
any suggestions will DO!!:happy:


"I believe that many people are coerced into becoming Muslims, and that those who would turn their back on Islam cannot do so because they fear for their lives. Many, many Christians in Muslim countries are tortured and killed for their faith, but that's not news to you. I guarantee you that there are "Muslims" who are forced to practice Christianity in secret because to do so in public would be suicide. Palestinian Christians have expressed their concern for the future - they believe that the only reason why Hamas has not yet imposed Muslim Sharia law on its citizens is because they are looking for international legitimacy and support first.

As for the similarities between Nazism and Islam, I find the parallelism astounding. For the Nazis, the Jews were the principle force preventing them from achieving their goal of world domination. According to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Hamas's takeover of the Palestinian Authority is part of Islam's attempt to conquer the world, and Israel is their first stop on the road to world conquest. Coincidence? I think not, especially when you consider that the Nazis not only supported Arab terrorists, but they funded them as well. Amin el-Husseini, mufti of Jerusalem, organized an attack against and murdered hundreds of Jews in the British-controlled Palestine Mandate in 1936. He said years later that he would have been defeated were it not for Nazi financial aid. Husseini was allied with the Muslim Brotherhood movement and became an active Nazi agent, at one point even planning an Auschwitz-like death camp to be built in Nablus. His men saluted one another with Nazi salutes. The notion of jihad or holy war was not even an active part of Islamic doctrine until the 1930s when it became concurrent with Nazi hostility and anti-Semitism. Muslims have adopted Nazi-style execution as well as Hitler's view of the early indoctrination of children. The violent, military-style training of Palestinian youth directly reflect the ideology of the Hitler Youth Movement. Nazism and Islam are two sides of the same coin. Like I said before, its still the same war.

And what about the Muslims? "Endearing" isn't exactly the word that comes to mind! Hitler and Hamas.....they both governed by fear and intimidation. I, for one, would certainly like to know what merit people find in Islam........?"[
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Taqiyah
Asalama Alaikum...
:) Ok..there is this forum where christians and Muslims debate about their religions...which religion is right and why they think its right....u know..stuff like that... [[/B]

Stuff like what? stuff like being idiots? :rollseyes No offence sis,but debating about religons is rather pointless.

Here,visit This threads.

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noshaba
06-24-2006, 08:45 PM
hmmm....this is one where knowlege of nazi...humus and all tht comes into it....i persoanlly dont know what shes talking bwt...but im sure sum1 highly knowledgeable would be able to help....good luck
:sl:
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Muezzin
06-24-2006, 08:51 PM
Wow, Islam and Nazism being two sides of the same coin. It's remarkable how quick people are to equate anything they dislike with one of the most evil regimes in the history of man. As for that lady, she seems to be complaining about anti-Semitism, but in so doing, is being Islamaphobic - that's like saying to a white racist, 'stop calling him [N word that rhymes with digger], you silly [H word that rhymes with 'donkey']!'

I'd tell her 'sucks to be you' and just leave the place.
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Taqiyah
06-24-2006, 08:57 PM
[QUOTE=SirZubair;371103][IMG]
Stuff like what? stuff like being idiots? :rollseyes No offence sis,but debating about religons is rather pointless.

Here,visit This threads.


"guide everyone to the light of Islam and we must show the people where they have gone wrong. Having said that, I agree that we should not do it in a condescending way and we must have knowledge of Islam and the other religions before we do it."
__________________
Well..Like u said Akhi...I simply want to guide this christian woman to the light of Islam. and I think I know enough about my religion:) ....I am sure if I answer her correctly....I would increase her knowledge about Islam and it's merits....:rollseyes ..I don't see the harm in doin so....:?
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rubiesand
06-24-2006, 08:59 PM
:w: Sister,

If you post your story of why you chose Islam, that is your personal story and not a subject for debate, it's a pity the responder couldn't respect that.

But anyway, according to Godwin's Law she has lost the 'debate' anyway. In the first line of her second paragraph. ;D
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Muezzin
06-24-2006, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by rubiesand
:w: Sister,

If you post your story of why you chose Islam, that is your personal story and not a subject for debate, it's a pity the responder couldn't respect that.

But anyway, according to Godwin's Law she has lost the 'debate' anyway. In the first line of her second paragraph. ;D
Aha! That's what I was looking for! Reps for that find.
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SirZubair
06-24-2006, 09:01 PM
[QUOTE=Taqiyah;371118]
Originally Posted by SirZubair
[IMG]
Stuff like what? stuff like being idiots? :rollseyes No offence sis,but debating about religons is rather pointless.

Here,visit This threads.


"guide everyone to the light of Islam and we must show the people where they have gone wrong. Having said that, I agree that we should not do it in a condescending way and we must have knowledge of Islam and the other religions before we do it."
__________________
Well..Like u said Akhi...I simply want to guide this christian woman to the light of Islam. and I think I know enough about my religion:) ....I am sure if I answer her correctly....I would increase her knowledge about Islam and it's merits....:rollseyes ..I don't see the harm in doin so....:?
If you truly feel that you have what it takes,then i pray that Allah swt help you on your mission.

(p . s = i didnt say the above,alpha dude did..)
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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-24-2006, 09:14 PM
Originally Posted by Taqiyah
The notion of jihad or holy war was not even an active part of Islamic doctrine until the 1930s when it became concurrent with Nazi hostility and anti-Semitism.
1930s? I wonder why it was mentioned in the Qur'an and Ahadith around 1400 years ago. Refer to these two articles:
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=64
http://www.load-islam.com/c/rebuttals/Misquoted

I'm not interested in the political claims and allegations here, I'll just refute her claim about Islam instead. Best way to do that is by quoting the teachings of Islam from the Qur'an and the Sunnah.

21:107 And we have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to all mankind.

25:63. And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

16:125 Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and reason with them in the best manner. Verily your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path and and best knows He as to who are the rightly-guided.

29:46 And do not debate with the people of the earlier scriptures (Jews and Christians) except in the best manner, unless it be with the those bent on oppression and injustice. And say 'We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: our God and your God is one , and it is unto Him that We submit ourselves.

3:159 And it was by God's mercy that you [O Prophet] dealt gently with them. And had you been harsh and hard of heart they would have disbanded from around you. So pardon them, then, and pray that they be forgiven. And take counsel with them in all matters of public concern; then, when you have decided upon a course of action, trust in God: for, verily, God loves those who place their trust in Him.

41:34 The good deed and the evil deed cannot be not equal. Return an evil deed with one that is good. Then he between whom and thyself was mutual enmity shall become as though he were an intimate friend.

8:61 And if the enemy inclines to peace, then incline to peace as well and trust in God. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.

60:8 God does not dissuade you from dealing compassionately and justly with those who do not fight you because of your religion nor expel you from your homes. Indeed, God loves those who act justly.


[sarcasm]Look at all those violent teachings! :grumbling [/sarcasm]

The Prophet said: 'I am the Prophet of mercy and I am the Prophet of repentance. (Shamâ'il At-Tirmidhî, Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet said: 'Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character (Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik)

The Prophet said: 'There is nothing which is heavier upon the balance than the good character.' (Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet said: 'The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely, or speak rudely.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

The Prophet said: 'Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good.' (Sahîh Muslim)

The Prophet said: 'Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not trouble his neighbor, and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously, and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should say what is good, or be silent.' (Sahîh Bukhârî, Sahîh Muslim).

[sarcasm] Look at this Nazi racism: :grumbling [/sarcasm]

49:13 O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is the most pious. Verily, God is All-Knowing, All-Aware.

[sarcasm]Look at the anti-semitism :grumbling [/sarcasm]

O Children of Israel! Remember My favor wherewith I favored you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures!

I think you need to tell your friend to read Islam's teachings for herself before slandering our religion. She is right about one thing though - the world is returning to holocaust times, only this time the Muslims are the victims. The Muslims are the ones being maligned in the media, their religion demonized. The Muslims are now the targets of the hateful propaganda that once aided the Nazis against the Jews.

:w:
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Taqiyah
06-24-2006, 09:21 PM
Thank u very much Ansar Al-'Adl this is really helpfull..
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firdaw
06-25-2006, 12:00 AM
I like this article and i would total debate with anyone who said anything bad about muslims or even fight them because i believe that religion is the key to good life and if you don't have a religion then you don't get good respect.
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Taqiyah
06-25-2006, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by firdaw
I like this article and i would total debate with anyone who said anything bad about muslims or even fight them because i believe that religion is the key to good life and if you don't have a religion then you don't get good respect.

;D I totally agree with u sis.:statisfie
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duskiness
06-25-2006, 06:25 PM
Taqiyah look in the mirror. Do you see swastica on your arm?
Now check your bookshelf. Do you see Main Kampf standig there?
No....hymmm...maybe there are some diffrences between nazism and Islam in the end?

Don't bother answering this woman. If someone can't see difference between one of the biggest religions of this word with 1400 year long tradition and nazism i doubt you can help her.
n.
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Taqiyah
06-26-2006, 05:54 AM
Originally Posted by duskiness
Taqiyah look in the mirror. Do you see swastica on your arm?
Now check your bookshelf. Do you see Main Kampf standig there?
No....hymmm...maybe there are some diffrences between nazism and Islam in the end?

Don't bother answering this woman. If someone can't see difference between one of the biggest religions of this word with 1400 year long tradition and nazism i doubt you can help her.
n.


;D Thank u very much Duskiness...I don't see a Swastica or Main Kampf.....and u right I think by answering her I will only be westing my time...:rollseyes
S/c/w
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syilla
06-26-2006, 06:06 AM
taqiyah...(wow nice name...what is the meaning anyway?)

please update us if you get her to reply.

Thank you.
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glo
06-26-2006, 06:14 AM
I agree with duskiness

Some discussions are not worth getting into. The Bible warns us of getting into unnecessary arguments which will distract us from our true calling in life!
On the other hand, many people genuinely misunderstand Islam, and could do with a little education.

I would only get into further discussion with this person, if I felt it can be done with peace and love. Anything that will increase the already strong negative vibes, I would stay away from!

Don't just use your knowledge, use your wisdom too!

Peace.
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Taqiyah
06-26-2006, 06:29 AM
:) ASalama Alaikum..
No problem Syilla I will update u..
and Taqiyah....it comes from "Taqwa" which means "God Fearing".:sister: ...
and thanks Glo I will think about it...:happy:
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Taqiyah
07-05-2006, 05:53 AM
Asalamama Alaikum...................
Guys I gotta tell yah I think I shouldn't have replied to her nonsense post she just keeps on pissing me off!!:heated: After I did my best tryin to explain to her about Islam and y she was wrong to say what she did about Islam.:uhwhat looks like she never really wanned to know y........all she wants is to win the debate not know what is truely right:rollseyes that ticks :hiding: me off! here is what she wrote after my reply............



First of all, I want you all to know that most of my friends are Muslims and I love and respect them so much but I’ve chosen them from a hundred of Muslims, we never talk about religion, we are close friends and we respect each other beliefs despite of the fact that non of us believe in the other one religion. We are friends, love each others, deal with each others, care about each other.
But I should say my point of view and I am sure that non of you will like what I will be saying. So, I think the enemity appears because people have nothing to talk about in the Middle East; they are trying to prove who is best and who is right. They better concentrate on their work and to achieve success for themselves and their countries but they don’t, all they do is wasting their time talking about religion, religion that corner that no one was supposed to talk about it, because this is a relation between only God and the man, and because it is a sensitive subject and everyone believes in his/her beliefs and whenever a subject related to religion appears it have a bad ending for both sides, cause they are totally different, Christians don’t believe and will never believe of Mohamed’s as a prophet and Muslims will never believe that Jesus Christ is God and died in the cross. Also Muslims used to have different opinions about Christianity sometimes they say they respect Christians and they continue the Christian religion by their book but in the other hand they are mentioning that the bible is not right, it is false and corrupted so how comes they continue a false thing they are just saying words. Muslims never believe in Christianity at all as they are assuming. Plus how comes that Islam is peaceful, and what about terrorism that is known to the whole world that all terrorist are Arab and Moslem people did u ever heard about a Christian man or women whom are a terrorist did u ever heard about any Christian who suicide with a bomb to save the Christian world. But all are Moslems who kill, who die and whom are creating problems, so don’t lie upon urselves guys because Islam is a terrorist since its origin, since it began they made wars for Islam to be spread, they killed people whom didn’t wanna follow them. And what about old men, kids and women read the history they let them pay tax to stay on their religion or take them as slaves if they don’t have this tax, read Islam history.. read it before talking and don’t try to fake the facts. I think I better stop talking about religion now cause I don’t think that my words will suites any of you. But this is my opinion and I guess we are in a free talk.

Regarding the Peaceful Islam read the link below to see how many word of KILL commands written in the Quran book
no anti-islamic links
and please tell me if you find any single word of KILL in the Christians bible.

Look trying to separate violence from Islam will be impossible. The entire history of Islam has been of armed conflict. Thus, the Islamic armed conflict against non-Muslims continues to this very day. I had read Quran in English but what a pity that book contradict itself, on the contrary I read about the Bible, trust me I respect every religion or Ideology but I can’t imagine to in force anyone to believe by force or by sword like the case in Islam, the Muslims irritate the whole world with their ridiculous interpretations in the name of Islamic Faith. Also I have been taught in my religion to be peaceful and to love everybody including my enemies.. that is what we learnt from the bible, although I don't consider Muslims as enemies, but they are all human beings, friends and brothers, I never thought whom from my friends are Moslems or Christians, I love my friends because they are my friends that I have chosen away from religion cause we never talk about religion in our daily talks. We never touch this side of religion because freedom is a special gift from our God and we should respect one another and respect our differences even if we don’t agree with it. But I really like this discussion cause it really shows everybody point of view and because I don’t know any of you personally so I’ll not get angry from any of you who disagree with me.

So, It is politically correct to say the Islam is not a religion based on violence. Please read Fregosi's "Jihad" to get a historical perspective of just how violent the religion of Islam has been.

Muslims say that Islam is 1400 years old, but then say that the fanatics have only been around for the past 100 years. That is just plain wrong. We in the West are ignorant of history. We are ignorant of the evil that Islam did from its founding, to its apogee and through its stubborn decline until it was silenced at the end of World War I.

To compare Islam to all of the other large religions of the world is an insult to these other religions. Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and Judaism do not have the history of violence that Islam has. It is a matter of degree to say the least.
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Taqiyah
07-05-2006, 06:32 PM
Asalama Alaikum..........

Truely this discussion was not worth getting into.........After All, Allah did say:

29:46 And do not debate with the people of the earlier scriptures (Jews and Christians) except in the best manner, unless it be with the those bent on oppression and injustice. And say 'We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: our God and your God is one , and it is unto Him that We submit ourselves.

So I am just gonna leave it at that:) I am not gonna argue with her anymore.....she seems so blinded by hate for Muslims.....Subhanalah:sister:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
07-05-2006, 11:46 PM
:sl:
I don't like to leave things unanswered, even if it is just recycled anti-islamic drivel...
_____________________
But I should say my point of view and I am sure that non of you will like what I will be saying.
You're right; slandering and maligning the world's second largest religion is not something most civilized people take kindly to.
So, I think the enemity appears because people have nothing to talk about in the Middle East
Sorry to disappoint you, but people do talk in the middle east; it's a language called arabic.
They better concentrate on their work and to achieve success for themselves and their countries but they don’t
Actually, Islam teaches us to be self-critical and examine our own faults before pointing towards those of others. The Prophet said: 'Blessed is he who preoccupies himself with his own defects, rather than those of others.' (Musnad Al-Bazzâr)
religion that corner that no one was supposed to talk about it, because this is a relation between only God and the man
Religion is a matter of truth. God has revealed a complete way of life for humanity to adhere to, and this way can be discovered by scrutinising all existing theologies, ideologies and religions to determine which are man-made and which is divinely ordained.
Also Muslims used to have different opinions about Christianity sometimes they say they respect Christians and they continue the Christian religion by their book but in the other hand they are mentioning that the bible is not right, it is false and corrupted
Muslims do believe that the Bible today is not identical to the original revelation given to the Prophets, just as many non-muslims believe. But we respect Christians just like we respect all human beings, though we believe they are not following the truth. If you think that is a contradiction, you need to answer for an even larger one which sticks out in your writing!

You said:
[...]most of my friends are Muslims and I love and respect them so much [...] we are close friends and we respect each other BELIEFS despite of the fact that non of us believe in the other one religion.
And yet you explicitly say
don’t lie upon urselves guys because Islam is a terrorist since its origin [...] get a historical perspective of just how violent the religion of Islam has been. [...] We are ignorant of the evil that Islam did from its founding
So on one hand you claim to respect Muslims and Islamic beliefs, and yet in the same post you call their religion 'violent', 'evil' and 'a terrorist'!! Hypocrisy is quite evident in your own words.
Plus how comes that Islam is peaceful, and what about terrorism that is known to the whole world
The first problem occurs here. Islam is a system of beliefs and laws - it is based on its original sources, the Qur'an and the prophetic teachings. It is NOT based on the actions of its adherents. It is analogous to the case of a mathematics class; if the students are doing very poorly and are incapable of solving their numerical problems, can one conclude that mathematics itself is flawed?! Of course not, the flaw is in the students education, not the system of principles, laws or beliefs. In fact, such a system or religion can be linked with the performance of its adherents if and ONLY if it can objectively be demonstated that the actions of the adherents are endorsed by the religion itself. This is clearly not the case with Islam. Violent actions have absolutely no basis in Islam.
that all terrorist are Arab and Moslem people did u ever heard about a Christian man or women whom are a terrorist did u ever heard about any Christian who suicide with a bomb to save the Christian world.
It is not true that all terrorists are Arabs or Muslims. The two greatest military causes of casualities this century, World War 1 and World War 2, had nothing to do with Islam or Muslims. The most number of suicide bombings were carried out by the Tamil Tigers, who are neither a Muslim nor arab organization. What about the genocides/massacres in Rwanda, Kosovo or Palestine? In fact, victims of the latter two were/are Muslims. What about Christians? What about KKK, the Lord's Resistance Army, David Koresh, etc. Were they not Christians?

What makes your statements even worse is that Muslims have unanimously condemned terrorism and violence.
http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm
http://www.saudiembassy.net/ReportLi...mism_May04.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...ds/5111092.stm
http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A1789_0_2_0_M
http://salafipublications.com/sps/sL...=channel&CID=3
http://www.salafipublications.com/sp.../GSC020003.pdf
http://www.al-athariyyah.com/Data_Fi...fbinLaadin.pdf
Thousands of condemnations are listed here from all the Muslim scholars and leaders. The perpetrators of violent actions do not constitute even .00001% of Muslims, and yet for some reason you pass judgement on all Muslims, let alone Islam, on the basis of their actions?! This is a manifest injustice.
don’t lie upon urselves guys because Islam is a terrorist since its origin
I strongly suggest you educate yourself about Islamic teachings and history.
Read some basic Islamic teachings here:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/i...rticle06.shtml
And here are some quotes from various historians on the spread of Islam.
“The Christian World came to wage crusades against Muslims but eventually knelt before them to gain knowledge. They were spellbound to see that Muslims were owners of a culture that was far superior to their own. The Dark Ages of Europe were illuminated by nothing but the beacon of Muslim Civilization.” (F.J.C Hearushaw, The Science of History)

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated." (De Lacy O'Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8)

“The Renaissance of Europe did not take place in the 15th century. Rather it began when Europe learned from the culture of the Arabs. The cradle of European awakening is not Italy. It is the Muslim Spain.” (Robert Briffault, The Making Of Mankind)

Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.(Lawrence E. Browne,‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944)

Despite the growth of antagonism, Moslem (Muslim) rulers seldom made their Christian subjects suffer for the Crusades. When the Saracens finally resumed the full control of Palestine the Christians were given their former status as dhimmis. The Coptic Church, too had little cause for complaint under Saladin's (Salahuddin) strong government, and during the time of the earlier Mameluke sultans who succeeded him the Copts experienced more enlightened justice than they had hitherto known. The only effect of the Crusaders upon Egyptian Christians was to keep them for a while from pilgrimage to Jerusalem, for as long as the Frank were in charge heretics were forbidden access to the shrines. Not until the Moslem victories could they enjoy their rights as Christians. (James Addison, 'The Christian Approach to the Moslem,' p. 35)

The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur'an in the other is quite false.(A. S. Tritton, in 'Islam,' 195)

No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience. (James Michener, ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70)

My problem to write this monograph is easier, because we are not generally fed now on that (distorted) kind of history and much time need not be spent on pointing out our misrepresentations of Islam. The theory of Islam and sword, for instance, is not heard now in any quarter worth the name. The principle of Islam that “there is no compulsion in religion” is well known. (K. S. Ramakrishna Rao, 'Mohammed: The Prophet of Islam,' 1989)

When Pococke inquired of Grotius, where the proof was of that story of the pigeon, trained to pick peas from Mahomet's (Muhammad's) ear, and pass for an angel dictating to him? Grotius answered that there was no proof!.. (Thomas Carlyle, ‘Heroes, Hero Worship, and the Heroic in History,’ Lecture 2, Friday, 8th May 1840)

A greater number of God's creatures believe in Mahomet's word at this hour than in any other word whatever. Are we to suppose that it was a miserable piece of spiritual legerdemain, this which so many creatures of the almighty have lived by and died by?... (Thomas Carlyle, ‘Heroes, Hero Worship, and the Heroic in History,’ Lecture 2, Friday, 8th May 1840)

“A rugged, strife-torn and mountaineering people...were suddenly turned into an indomitable Arab force, which achieved a series of splendid victories unparalleled in the history of nations, for in the short space of ninety years that mighty range of Saracenic (i.e. Muslim) conquest embraced a wider extent of territory than Rome had mastered in the course of eight hundred.”(Simon Ockley, in 'History of the Saracens')

We have never heard about any attempt to compel Non-Muslim parties to adopt Islam or about any organized persecution aiming at exterminating Christianity. If the Caliphs had chosen one of these plans, they would have wiped out Christianity as easily as what happened to Islam during the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella in Spain; by the same method which Louis XIV followed to make Protestantism a creed whose followers were to be sentenced to death; or with the same ease of keeping the Jews away from Britain for a period of three hundred fifty years. (Thomas Arnold, in 'The Call to Islam.')

In the eyes of history, religious toleration is the highest evidence of culture in a people....It was not until the Western nations broke away from their religious law that they became more tolerant, and it was only when the Muslims fell away from their religious law that they declined in tolerance and other evidences of the highest culture. Before the coming of Islam it (tolerance) had never been preached as an essential part of religion... (Marmaduke Pickthall, 1927 Lecture on 'Tolerance in Islam,' Madras, India)
And what about old men, kids and women read the history they let them pay tax to stay on their religion or take them as slaves if they don’t have this tax, read Islam history..
Yes, indeed read the history and cure this ignorance on how these taxes were imposed. The 13th century Muslim jurist, Al-Qurtubi, wrote
This is the consensus of the scholars that jizya is levied ONLY on adult, free men who are qualified to go to war NOT on women or children or slaves or mad people or defeated people or senile or the elderly (Al-Jami' Le' Ahkaam el Quraan (72/8))
And the 11th century Muslim Court Judge, Al-Mawardi, wrote that when taking the Jizya tax the Muslim ruler should exact an amount in accordance with people's means and that he should [use] his judgement to conclude the contract of jizyah to the satisfaction of the leaders of the people being taxed (Ahkam AS-Sultaniyya, pp. 209-210).
Regarding the Peaceful Islam read the link below to see how many word of KILL commands written in the Quran book
Read this link below where every single one of these misquotations, misinterprations, distortions and mistranslations of Qur'anic verses have been refuted:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/
and please tell me if you find any single word of KILL in the Christians bible
There are anti-christian hate sites too:
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
You will find quite a lot of talk about killing in the Biblical passages selected.
I had read Quran in English but what a pity that book contradict itself
I suggest you read the 46 refutations of alleged internal contradictions in the Qur'an here before making such baseless claims:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal...contradictions
Also I have been taught in my religion to be peaceful and to love everybody including my enemies..
Open your mind and read what Islam says on the issue:

Qur'an 25:63. And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

Qur'an 41:34 The good deed and the evil deed cannot be not equal. Return an evil deed with one that is good. Then he between whom and thyself was mutual enmity shall become as though he were an intimate friend.


The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

The Prophet said: 'Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
Please read Fregosi's "Jihad" to get a historical perspective of just how violent the religion of Islam has been.
Why would anyone want to read an anti-islamic book to learn about Islam? Why not read Mein Kampf to understand anti-semitism?! See what the historians have said in the quotations I already posted.
________________________
This is the same kind of stuff you hear all the time. It doesn't require any intelligence to refute the fallacies and distortions for the 1000th time. Instead of just pasting their posts on the forum, refer them to the links which address these issues or invite them here to discuss.

:w:
Reply

Anonymous.92
07-06-2006, 08:32 AM
Wow... I am speechless Ansar... You are one excellent refuter Mashallah
Reply

Taqiyah
07-07-2006, 03:38 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
:sl:
I don't like to leave things unanswered, even if it is just recycled anti-islamic drivel...
_____________________

You're right; slandering and maligning the world's second largest religion is not something most civilized people take kindly to.

Sorry to disappoint you, but people do talk in the middle east; it's a language called arabic.

Actually, Islam teaches us to be self-critical and examine our own faults before pointing towards those of others. The Prophet said: 'Blessed is he who preoccupies himself with his own defects, rather than those of others.' (Musnad Al-Bazzâr)

Religion is a matter of truth. God has revealed a complete way of life for humanity to adhere to, and this way can be discovered by scrutinising all existing theologies, ideologies and religions to determine which are man-made and which is divinely ordained.

Muslims do believe that the Bible today is not identical to the original revelation given to the Prophets, just as many non-muslims believe. But we respect Christians just like we respect all human beings, though we believe they are not following the truth. If you think that is a contradiction, you need to answer for an even larger one which sticks out in your writing!

You said:

And yet you explicitly say

So on one hand you claim to respect Muslims and Islamic beliefs, and yet in the same post you call their religion 'violent', 'evil' and 'a terrorist'!! Hypocrisy is quite evident in your own words.

The first problem occurs here. Islam is a system of beliefs and laws - it is based on its original sources, the Qur'an and the prophetic teachings. It is NOT based on the actions of its adherents. It is analogous to the case of a mathematics class; if the students are doing very poorly and are incapable of solving their numerical problems, can one conclude that mathematics itself is flawed?! Of course not, the flaw is in the students education, not the system of principles, laws or beliefs. In fact, such a system or religion can be linked with the performance of its adherents if and ONLY if it can objectively be demonstated that the actions of the adherents are endorsed by the religion itself. This is clearly not the case with Islam. Violent actions have absolutely no basis in Islam.

It is not true that all terrorists are Arabs or Muslims. The two greatest military causes of casualities this century, World War 1 and World War 2, had nothing to do with Islam or Muslims. The most number of suicide bombings were carried out by the Tamil Tigers, who are neither a Muslim nor arab organization. What about the genocides/massacres in Rwanda, Kosovo or Palestine? In fact, victims of the latter two were/are Muslims. What about Christians? What about KKK, the Lord's Resistance Army, David Koresh, etc. Were they not Christians?

What makes your statements even worse is that Muslims have unanimously condemned terrorism and violence.
http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm
http://www.saudiembassy.net/ReportLi...mism_May04.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...ds/5111092.stm
http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A1789_0_2_0_M
http://salafipublications.com/sps/sL...=channel&CID=3
http://www.salafipublications.com/sp.../GSC020003.pdf
http://www.al-athariyyah.com/Data_Fi...fbinLaadin.pdf
Thousands of condemnations are listed here from all the Muslim scholars and leaders. The perpetrators of violent actions do not constitute even .00001% of Muslims, and yet for some reason you pass judgement on all Muslims, let alone Islam, on the basis of their actions?! This is a manifest injustice.

I strongly suggest you educate yourself about Islamic teachings and history.
Read some basic Islamic teachings here:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/i...rticle06.shtml
And here are some quotes from various historians on the spread of Islam.
“The Christian World came to wage crusades against Muslims but eventually knelt before them to gain knowledge. They were spellbound to see that Muslims were owners of a culture that was far superior to their own. The Dark Ages of Europe were illuminated by nothing but the beacon of Muslim Civilization.” (F.J.C Hearushaw, The Science of History)

"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated." (De Lacy O'Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8)

“The Renaissance of Europe did not take place in the 15th century. Rather it began when Europe learned from the culture of the Arabs. The cradle of European awakening is not Italy. It is the Muslim Spain.” (Robert Briffault, The Making Of Mankind)

Incidentally these well-established facts dispose of the idea so widely fostered in Christian writings that the Muslims, wherever they went, forced people to accept Islam at the point of the sword.(Lawrence E. Browne,‘The Prospects of Islam,’ 1944)

Despite the growth of antagonism, Moslem (Muslim) rulers seldom made their Christian subjects suffer for the Crusades. When the Saracens finally resumed the full control of Palestine the Christians were given their former status as dhimmis. The Coptic Church, too had little cause for complaint under Saladin's (Salahuddin) strong government, and during the time of the earlier Mameluke sultans who succeeded him the Copts experienced more enlightened justice than they had hitherto known. The only effect of the Crusaders upon Egyptian Christians was to keep them for a while from pilgrimage to Jerusalem, for as long as the Frank were in charge heretics were forbidden access to the shrines. Not until the Moslem victories could they enjoy their rights as Christians. (James Addison, 'The Christian Approach to the Moslem,' p. 35)

The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur'an in the other is quite false.(A. S. Tritton, in 'Islam,' 195)

No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience. (James Michener, ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70)

My problem to write this monograph is easier, because we are not generally fed now on that (distorted) kind of history and much time need not be spent on pointing out our misrepresentations of Islam. The theory of Islam and sword, for instance, is not heard now in any quarter worth the name. The principle of Islam that “there is no compulsion in religion” is well known. (K. S. Ramakrishna Rao, 'Mohammed: The Prophet of Islam,' 1989)

When Pococke inquired of Grotius, where the proof was of that story of the pigeon, trained to pick peas from Mahomet's (Muhammad's) ear, and pass for an angel dictating to him? Grotius answered that there was no proof!.. (Thomas Carlyle, ‘Heroes, Hero Worship, and the Heroic in History,’ Lecture 2, Friday, 8th May 1840)

A greater number of God's creatures believe in Mahomet's word at this hour than in any other word whatever. Are we to suppose that it was a miserable piece of spiritual legerdemain, this which so many creatures of the almighty have lived by and died by?... (Thomas Carlyle, ‘Heroes, Hero Worship, and the Heroic in History,’ Lecture 2, Friday, 8th May 1840)

“A rugged, strife-torn and mountaineering people...were suddenly turned into an indomitable Arab force, which achieved a series of splendid victories unparalleled in the history of nations, for in the short space of ninety years that mighty range of Saracenic (i.e. Muslim) conquest embraced a wider extent of territory than Rome had mastered in the course of eight hundred.”(Simon Ockley, in 'History of the Saracens')

We have never heard about any attempt to compel Non-Muslim parties to adopt Islam or about any organized persecution aiming at exterminating Christianity. If the Caliphs had chosen one of these plans, they would have wiped out Christianity as easily as what happened to Islam during the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella in Spain; by the same method which Louis XIV followed to make Protestantism a creed whose followers were to be sentenced to death; or with the same ease of keeping the Jews away from Britain for a period of three hundred fifty years. (Thomas Arnold, in 'The Call to Islam.')

In the eyes of history, religious toleration is the highest evidence of culture in a people....It was not until the Western nations broke away from their religious law that they became more tolerant, and it was only when the Muslims fell away from their religious law that they declined in tolerance and other evidences of the highest culture. Before the coming of Islam it (tolerance) had never been preached as an essential part of religion... (Marmaduke Pickthall, 1927 Lecture on 'Tolerance in Islam,' Madras, India)

Yes, indeed read the history and cure this ignorance on how these taxes were imposed. The 13th century Muslim jurist, Al-Qurtubi, wrote
This is the consensus of the scholars that jizya is levied ONLY on adult, free men who are qualified to go to war NOT on women or children or slaves or mad people or defeated people or senile or the elderly (Al-Jami' Le' Ahkaam el Quraan (72/8))
And the 11th century Muslim Court Judge, Al-Mawardi, wrote that when taking the Jizya tax the Muslim ruler should exact an amount in accordance with people's means and that he should [use] his judgement to conclude the contract of jizyah to the satisfaction of the leaders of the people being taxed (Ahkam AS-Sultaniyya, pp. 209-210).

Read this link below where every single one of these misquotations, misinterprations, distortions and mistranslations of Qur'anic verses have been refuted:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/

There are anti-christian hate sites too:
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
You will find quite a lot of talk about killing in the Biblical passages selected.

I suggest you read the 46 refutations of alleged internal contradictions in the Qur'an here before making such baseless claims:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal...contradictions

Open your mind and read what Islam says on the issue:

Qur'an 25:63. And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.

Qur'an 41:34 The good deed and the evil deed cannot be not equal. Return an evil deed with one that is good. Then he between whom and thyself was mutual enmity shall become as though he were an intimate friend.


The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

The Prophet said: 'Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

Why would anyone want to read an anti-islamic book to learn about Islam? Why not read Mein Kampf to understand anti-semitism?! See what the historians have said in the quotations I already posted.
________________________
This is the same kind of stuff you hear all the time. It doesn't require any intelligence to refute the fallacies and distortions for the 1000th time. Instead of just pasting their posts on the forum, refer them to the links which address these issues or invite them here to discuss.

:w:

Asalama Alaikum......

Ansar u do know I didn't write this article don't u?:? :? Some christian women wrote it and posted it on another forum..........If u read my thread introduction u would know that.
But I am not gonna bother and answer her........
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-07-2006, 03:48 AM
:sl:
Yes I know; I just like writing responses directly.

:w:
Reply

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