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bandoo
06-24-2006, 03:55 PM
Dear Aalimah,

I have read with interest about what may possibly happen to a bad person after death. But you have not defined a bad person. Please let me know who is a bad person.

Hope your definition of good and bad is not limited to Muslims only! This is because good and bad persons exist outside Islam also.

Bandoo
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- Qatada -
06-24-2006, 04:25 PM
Hi brother bandoo.


You should check this site out to find out why its so important to believe in the God that created you, and every other being.

www.beconvinced.com


You may find out why rejecting God, His messengers and His signs is the biggest sin a person can commit. And if someone dies in that state - then they will recieve a severe punishment. Therefore its important to understand the truth.

If you feel unsure about anything, you could create a new thread and i'm sure alot of people will be willing to answer your questions insha'Allaah (God willing.)


Peace. :)
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bandoo
06-28-2006, 04:23 PM
Dear Fi,

While it is nice of you to write to me about having true faith in the God, you have avoided the information I want.

Please clearly tell me 1. Who is a bad person as defined by the Koran. 2. Are the bad persons existing only among the Muslims or they are also there among the non-Muslims. 3. Who is a good person? 4. Are there good persons outside Islam also?

After I have the clear ideas about a bad and good person according to Islam, we can continue this dialogue further.

Thanking you in advance,

Bandoo
Reply

bandoo
06-28-2006, 04:37 PM
Dear Fi_

I did go to the Discover Islam site you had kindly suggested. The Website is undoubtedly most beautifully done. I will visit it again. However, I do not know where the definition of BAD PERSON is located on it. If possible you can define him for me.

Incidentally, your personal details mention that you are on the way to Akhira (hereafter). So it will be quite fruitful to discuss with you as a Muslim to know what your exact thoughts are on the life hereafter. I think Islam is quite confused on these matters. You can help in clearing that confusion in my mind about the confusion in Islam.

Bandoo
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- Qatada -
06-28-2006, 04:41 PM
Hi again.

I moved the thread to the Comparative Religion Section instead :)

But referring to what you asked, these links may be of some use to you insha'Allaah (God willing.)


This is kind of related to the issue of what happens to non-muslims in the afterlife:

This was discussed in dozens of threads on the forum; see this post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/270362-post11.html

On a related issue, you can read the discussion in this article:
http://load-islam.com/c/rebuttals/Sa...or_non-Muslims


A bad person is someone who rejects God (the source of all love, mercy and peace in our world), someone who oppresses or wrongs others, someone who commits sins.



Even though the links may not have the title to what you asking for, they are related to what you asked insha'Allaah. (God willing.)


Peace.
Reply

- Qatada -
06-28-2006, 05:12 PM

We as muslims believe that there is none who should be worshipped except Allaah (the One and Only God.) And we should do good deeds, like pray our 5 daily prayers, fast, pay money and help the poor etc.

Every thing we do in this life is witnessed by Allaah Almighty, and this is why we have to try to do as much good as we can to please Allaah, and try to stop ourselves and others from doing evil - otherwise Allaah Almighty may be displeased with us.


We believe that after every person has died, there will be the final gathering of all the people that have ever lived on the world - every person will be judged by Allaah to see what the person did in this life, was it good or bad? Did they believe in Allaah or did they reject their own Creator?

The ones who did evil and disbelieved in Allaah will be punished in the hellfire, and the believers who did good will be rewarded with paradise where they can have anything they desire.


We believe that since the beginning of time, Allaah has sent messengers to this world to warn the people of the day they will be judged, and told them that they should worship Allaah Alone, and not any other. But the people who disobeyed Allaah - they turned away and they will be judged. The same way the believers will be judged, and each person will be rewarded or punished justly for what they did in this world.


This is why we believe that this life is only temporary, so we should work hard to do as much good as we can to please Allaah. But the people who don't believe in Allaah, or the afterlife think that we only live once - but then you have to ask yourself, why was i created for in this world? And the answer to that is to please Allaah, if you do that - then Allaah will grant you paradise, but if you reject Allaah - then you will be punished for rejecting Allaah Almighty, even though the signs were shown clearly to people in this world.

This is why Allaah Almighty says in the Qu'ran that the believers:

Those who remember Allah standing and sitting and lying on their sides and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth: Our Lord! Thou hast not created this in vain! Glory be to Thee; save us then from the chastisement of the fire: (Qur'an 3:191)


The believers look at the world and know that Allaah did not create this world for nothing, but it was for a reason - and that reason is that we should worship Allaah,


And I (Allâh) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone). (Qur'an 51:56)

This worship is in many ways like praying, fasting, helping the needy, being kind to your brother etc. Anything which is good that will please Allaah.


If the people do good in this world and do it to please Allaah;

Allah will admit those who believe and work righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow: they shall be adorned therein with bracelets of gold and pearls; and their garments there will be of silk. (Qur'an 22:23)


But those who disbelieve don't believe on the day of judgement, so they feel they can do anything they want because they don't believe that they will be judged on what they do:

But they reject the hour, and We have prepared a burning fire for him who rejects the hour. (the day of judgement) (Qur'an 25:11)


Allaah Almighty knows best.


If you have anymore questions, please do ask.


Peace.
Reply

------
06-29-2006, 10:05 AM
and God as defined by ???
The one and only - Allah swt

P.s. Jazakallah Fi_Sabilillah
Reply

IceQueen~
06-29-2006, 10:17 AM
yup a bad person is one who disbelieves in God or believes in HIm but disobeys His laws and orders.
But even then at then end it's up to God whether He wants to forgive someone or show mercy on them even if they are sinners.
So no-one can be sure who is gonna go to heaven or hell, we all need to be sincere to God and try and follow His laws as best as we can.
But a person can sincerely ask God for forgiveness for God is oft-forgiving and merciful-we just need to ask.
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IbnAbdulHakim
06-29-2006, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker666
<<A bad person is someone who rejects God (the source of all love, mercy and peace in our world), someone who oppresses or wrongs others, someone who commits sins.
>>>

Sins as defined by ???

and God as defined by ???
refer to umm_shaheeds thread:

Congratulating an Aethiest

:peace:

I hope u success in ur search :)
Reply

- Qatada -
06-29-2006, 01:30 PM
Hi truthseeker.


Allaah is the Most Merciful, and forgives the people who ask for His Mercy. The surah's those you have read, you may have realised that God sent messengers to them people - but they continuously attacked the messengers and the believers, because of their arrogance.

God sent them a messenger but they never accepted the message, so due to their arrogance - they were destroyed. However, the believers were saved because they believed in the Mercy of Allaah.


You have to ask yourself, the people who reject God, or don't believe in the Mercy of God - why should they be saved? Why should they be rewarded with paradise if they don't even believe in the paradise that their Lord has promised the believers? Also remember that before Allaah destroys any nation - a messenger is sent to them, and they are even given a warning of God's punishment if they don't believe. But due to their arrogance - they hate the truth and reject it, so only after they have rejected the Message of God are they destroyed.


Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). (Qur'an 8:38)

From the above verse it is clear that Allaah will forgive the people all of their past sins if they turn away from disbelief, that is the Mercy of Allaah. But if they keep on disbelieving in the truth - then they will be punished justly, because they rejected their Lord that created them.


If you got anymore questions, please do ask. :)


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-29-2006, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker666
what if someone doesnot seek heaven...???
then he can go to hell :rollseyes
Reply

IceQueen~
06-29-2006, 02:47 PM
there's only two choices on judgement day-heaven or hell.
hell doesn't sound so nice so i don't think u'd be stupid enough to choose that one...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-29-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker666
what if there was no heaven or no hell...

what if we never die ?
then hav fun living in your grave like all the other millions of people who are "according to you" still alive. lol

:thumbs_up


btw technically there is another life of the soul in the grave, but your body will not feel it, its a spiritual thing, accept islam then i'll let ya kno ;)

:peace:
Reply

Shadow
06-29-2006, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker666
what if there was no heaven or no hell...

what if we never die ?
What if cows flew?

What if the universe could talk?

what if we live in the matrix??

seriously, whats your point?
Reply

- Qatada -
06-29-2006, 04:10 PM
Hi truthseeker.


If you're really searching for the truth, then you can check this section out regarding the afterlife:

http://www.islamicboard.com/akhira-hereafter/


However, if you're trying to promote atheism - then please remember that this is an islamic forum and its main aim is to promote islam. So please don't do that here.


Thanks.
Reply

bandoo
06-29-2006, 08:21 PM
Dear Fi_Sabilillah,

I am thankful to you for sparing so much of your valuable time in replying to my query. So would it be correct to draw following conclusions from what you have stated?

1. A bad person is either an atheist or one who believes in some god other than the Allah. Since (according to Islam) no such other god exists, such believers in god/s by other name/s are also like non-believers and are essentially bad persons.
2. A bad person is also a person who might be a Muslim and believe in god, but does unethical things or evil things.
3. A person may be good otherwise doing no ethical wrong like stealing, smoking, drinking alcohol, but if he is not a Muslim also he is a bad person. This is inspite of the fact that Allah chose hime to be born in a non-Muslim family and that was Allah's choice not his. Why Allah choses people to be borne out of Islam is a question only some Islamic scholar like you can answer.

After you agree with my conclusions about who is a bad person I will continue this dialogue further.

Bandoo
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bandoo
06-29-2006, 08:24 PM
Dear Fi_

My third question whether there are good persons outside Islam has not been categorically answered by you. Would it be possible for you to answer such straight questions with a straight Yes or No?

Bandoo
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bandoo
06-29-2006, 08:30 PM
Dear Respected Ms Marya 1,

You are obviously a very simple and pious soul believing in the goodness of things and thinking of the heavenly bliss after death. But if you will kindly permit me I would like to know what exactly is your idea of life after death as a good person.

If you will permit me I will pose my doubts in my my next post to you.

Bandoo
Reply

- Qatada -
06-29-2006, 09:28 PM
Hi again bandoo. :)


Regarding your third question, i don't really feel that i can answer that because there may be something within a person that may lead them to islam, even if that person is commiting sins.


I'll give you a really good example:


Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:

There was a man before you who had killed ninety-nine persons and then made an inquiry about the most learned persons of the world (who could show him the way to salvation). He was directed to a monk.

He came to him and told him that he had killed ninety-nine persons and asked him whether there was any scope for his repentance to be accepted. He said: No. He killed him also and thus completed one hundred.


He then asked about the most learned person of the earth and he was directed to a scholar, and he told him that he had killed one hundred persons and asked him whether there was any scope for his repentance to be accepted. He said: Yes; what stands between you and the repentance? You better go to such and such land; there are people devoted to the Prayer and worship and you also worship along with them and do not come to the land of yours since it was an evil land (for you).

So he went away and he had hardly covered half the distance when death came to him and there was a dispute between the angels of mercy and the angels of punishment. The angels of mercy said: This man has come as a penitent and remorseful to Allah and the angels of punishment said: He has done no good at all. Then there came another angel in the form of a human being in order to decide between them. He said: You measure the land to which he has drawn nearer. They measured it and found him nearer to the land where he intended to go (the land of piety), and so the angels of mercy took possession of him.



[Sahih Muslim: 4967]


Even though this person had commited one of the biggest sins in islam (murder) 100 times - Allaah Almighty (God) still loved something inside of him, and that was that he really hated the sins that he had commited, and felt guilty. Because he felt guilty, he was searching for the truth and wanted to search for God so he could be forgiven.


This answers your second question too, because no matter who a person is - even if they are born in a muslim family. The person has to take the first step towards getting close to God, if the person does this - then God will come closer to that person.


The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said that Allaah (God) Almighty said:

I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.

[Bukhari and Muslim]


If a person who hasn't even heard about islam, if they pray to be guided - Allaah will guide them to the truth, because the person is sincere and serious to follow the truth. This is what Allaah Almighty wants from his servants, and only the ones who are lucky are guided, because they are sincere and desperate to follow the truth. They know that this world is made by Someone who is Greater, they believe that they are here in this world for a reason, and they know that everything we do in this world - we are responsible for it, so we should do good to please the One who made us. And in return, they will be rewarded for pleasing their Lord insha'Allaah (God willing.)



If you got anymore questions, or don't understand anything i said - please do ask.


Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace.
Reply

bandoo
07-14-2006, 06:35 PM
Dear Sir,

I hope your request not to promote Atheism here is to someone called Truthseeker and not to me. You have used small first letter in writing his name, hence I am confused. Afterall we are all truthseekers (Though not Truthseeker as an LT Forum member identity).
By the way, why this request (warning!?) to the poor fellow? Are we afraid of countering his arguments? I am facing this problem of silence from Muslim scholars myself with nobody replying to doubts raised by me in some other threads. Because we claim Quran to provide anwers to all problems it only means the scholars here are not that well versed in Quran. What other conclusion can be there if not this?

Bandoo
Reply

bandoo
07-14-2006, 06:53 PM
Dear Sir,

What I understand from your replies is this:

1. Even if a person commits most henious crimes like murder and theft, if he or she repents in the end, Allah may choose to send that person to heaven.
2. Even if a person is NOT Muslim, but lives a pious life and believes in God (of his religion), allah may still choose to send him to the heaven. I do not think any other Muslim schloar will agree with this assertion of yours. What I have believed so far is that according to Islam only those who are Muslims will go to heaven, and none else.

Kindly cofirm these conclusions of mine as I would like to use them as reference points elsewhere.

Bandoo
Reply

bandoo
07-14-2006, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by bandoo
Dear Sir,

What I understand from your replies is this:

1. Even if a person commits most henious crimes like murder and theft, if he or she repents in the end, Allah may choose to send that person to heaven.
2. Even if a person is NOT Muslim, but lives a pious life and believes in God (of his religion), allah may still choose to send him to the heaven. I do not think any other Muslim schloar will agree with this assertion of yours. What I have believed so far is that according to Islam only those who are Muslims will go to heaven, and none else.

Kindly cofirm these conclusions of mine as I would like to use them as reference points elsewhere.

Bandoo
I wish to add some further points:

(a) What about the Muslim suicide bombers? They kill hundreds of innocent people who are not their direct enemies or even anti-Islam. In the process they also blow-up themselves and don't get even a second to repent for their inhuman act. Will such people be allowed by Allah to enter Heaven?
(b) Also what about the victims of attacks by the suicide bombers? Will only the Muslims among those killed will be allowed to go to heaven or others will also be allowed because they were killed for no fault of theirs?

Bandoo
Reply

- Qatada -
07-20-2006, 06:46 PM
Hi bandoo.


Please don't take offence to what i said earlier to Truthseeker, because he came on the forum to promote his own religion, in which he says that 'he is god' - hence i deleted his post. We're not afraid to counter his arguments, but if them arguments have no basis or no proof/evidences - then there isn't really much to discuss or debate.

Referring to your second point - we don't have any islamic scholars on this forum whatsoever, and if there are any knowledgable people - they may be the students of knowledge, and there aren't much of those here either.



Let's go to your questions now.

1. A person may have done many crimes/sins within their life, and Allaah Almighty knows that a person can fall into that when a person is ignorant of the truth or away from the guidance. But once the person realises his/her mistakes and finds the truth - they may repent to Allaah Almighty while regretting what they have done, hence Allaah Almighty can choose to forgive that person due to their sincerety.


"Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be ascribed to Him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases; and whoever ascribes partners to Allah in worship, has indeed invented a tremendous sin."
(Qur'an: Translation of the meaning, 4:48)


This leads to your second question, which is to believe in Allaah Almighty and then submit to the way of Allaah Almighty.

The biggest sin a person can ever commit is that they worship others besides their Creator, and their Creator is God - Allaah.

No matter how good the person is, and even if the person does believe there is a higher Being i.e. God - they still have to believe in Laa illaaha illAllaah (there is none worthy of worship except God/Allaah (alone.)) And this message has always been the message since the beginning of mankind, and every messenger that came told the people to follow this, but man kept going astray.


Believing that no-one is worthy of worship except Allaah means that people have to give up other deities besides Allaah Almighty (i.e. idols, humans i.e. Jesus [peace be upon him], or even a form of law besides the law of Allaah Almighty, which may be taking the laws of someone who governs in a way that opposes the commandments of God in the Qur'an [the speech of Allaah Almighty] and Sunnah [ways of Allaah Almighty's messenger])

If a person takes these ideoligies as a way of life instead of submitting themselves to Allaah Almighty (i.e. muslim means submitter and islam means submission) - they may be taking others as associates with Allaah Almighty because they are accepting a man made law instead of the divine law which Allaah Almighty revealed to mankind in the Qur'an and Sunnah.


Therefore, the above example may be a form associating partners with Allaah Almighty and the person may be commiting the biggest sin that ever exists - & that is associating others as partners with Allaah Almighty, because the person feels that the man made law is superior to the law of Allaah Almighty, and this is why they may be following it.


If a person believes in the above two examples, then they also have to believe in Allaah Almighty and His Attributes (Asma - wal-Sifaa.) This is believing in Allaah Almighty being the Perfect Being, and believing in the meanings of the names of Allaah which are mentioned in the Qur'an i.e.



If one grasps these 3 ideas of Tawheed (the Oneness of God) - then they have believed in Laaillaaha illAllaah (there is none worthy of worship except Allaah.) And hence they should believe that the Qur'an is the word of Allaah Almighty, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is God's/Allaah Almighty's final messenger.

If the person believes this and obeys Allaah Almighty in this, then they are muslim (submitters) to God. However this is just a small summary, so you may want to ask for more info. if you're interested.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


If theres any mistakes, its from myself and my sins - all good comes from Allaah Almighty.


Peace.



Referring to your second part of the question, I feel that you should really read this:

A Culture of Suicide?
http://www.islamonline.net/English/V...rticle08.shtml

main link:
http://islamonline.net/english/intif...al/index.shtml



If you have any more questions - please do ask. :)


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

Woodrow
07-24-2006, 04:58 AM
One problem is what definition of bad and good are we all thinking of.

Here are Webster's definitions

Bad


Definition: Bad
Bad
Adjective
1. Having undesirable or negative qualities; "a bad report card"; "his sloppy appearance made a bad impression"; "a bad little boy"; "clothes in bad shape"; "a bad cut"; "bad luck"; "the news was very bad"; "the reviews were bad"; "the pay is bad"; "it was a bad light for reading"; "the movie was a bad choice".

2. Very intense; "a bad headache"; "in a big rage"; "had a big (or bad) shock"; "a bad earthquake"; "a bad storm".

3. Feeling physical discomfort or pain; "my throat feels bad"; "she felt bad all over"; ('tough' is occasionally used colloquially for `bad' as in "he was feeling tough after a restless night").

4. (of foodstuffs) not in an edible or usable condition; "bad meat"; "a refrigerator full of spoilt food".

5. Not capable of being collected; "a bad (or uncollectible) debt".

6. Below average in quality or performance; "a bad chess player"; "a bad recital".

7. (linguistics; informal) "so-called bad grammar".

8. Not financially safe or secure; "a bad investment"; "high risk investments"; "anything that promises to pay too much can't help being risky"; "speculative business enterprises".

9. Physically unsound or diseased; "has a bad back"; "a bad heart"; "bad teeth"; "an unsound limb"; "unsound teeth".

10. : capable of harming; "bad habits"; "bad air"; "smoking is bad for you".

11. : keenly sorry or regretful; "felt bad about letting the team down"; "was sorry that she had treated him so badly"; "felt bad about breaking the vase".

12. : characterized by wickedness or immorality; "led a very bad life".

13. : reproduced fraudulently; "like a bad penny..."; "a forged twenty dollar bill".

14. : not working properly; "a bad telephone connection"; "a defective appliance".

Adverb
1. With great intensity; "the injury hurt badly"; "the buildings were badly shaken"; (`bad' is a nonstandard variant for `badly' as in "it hurts bad" or "we need water bad").

2. Very much; strongly; "I wanted it badly enough to work hard for it"; "the cables had sagged badly"; "they were badly in need of help"; "he wants a bicycle so bad he can taste it".

Noun
1. That which is below standard or expectations as of ethics or decency: "take the bad with the good".

Source: WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.




Good


Definition: Good
Good
Adjective
1. Having desirable or positive qualities especially those suitable for a thing specified; "good news from the hospital"; "a good report card"; "when she was good she was very very good"; "a good knife is one good for cutting"; "this stump will make a good picnic table"; "a good check"; "a good joke"; "a good exterior paint"; "a good secretary"; "a good dress for the office".

2. Having the normally expected amount; "gives full measure"; "gives good measure"; "a good mile from here".

3. Morally admirable.

4. Deserving of esteem and respect; "all respectable companies give guarantees"; "ruined the family's good name".

5. Promoting or enhancing well-being; "an arms limitation agreement beneficial to all countries"; "the beneficial effects of a temperate climate"; "the experience was good for her".

6. Superior to the average; "in fine spirits"; "a fine student"; "made good grades"; "morale was good"; "had good weather for the parade".

7. Agreeable or pleasing; "we all had a good time"; "good manners".

8. Of moral excellence; "a genuinely good person"; "a just cause"; "an upright and respectable man"; "the life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful, and virtuous"- Frederick Douglass.

9. Having or showing knowledge and skill and aptitude; "adept in handicrafts"; "an adept juggler"; "an expert job"; "a good mechanic"; "a practiced marksman"; "a proficient engineer"; "a lesser-known but no less skillful composer"; "the effect was achieved by skillful retouching".

10. : thorough; "had a good workout"; "gave the house a good cleaning".

11. : with or in a close or intimate relationship; "a good friend"; "my sisters and brothers are near and dear".

12. : having or showing or arising from a desire to promote the welfare or happiness of others; "his benevolent smile"; "a benevolent nature".

13. : financially sound; "a good investment"; "a secure investment".

14. : most suitable or right for a particular purpose; "a good time to plant tomatoes"; "the right time to act"; "the time is ripe for great sociological changes".

15. : resulting favorably; "its a good thing that I wasn't there"; "it is good that you stayed"; "it is well that no one saw you"; "all's well that ends well".

16. : exerting force or influence; "the law is effective immediately"; "a warranty good for two years"; "the law is already in effect (or in force)".

17. : used of clothing; "my good clothes"; "her Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes".

18. : feeling healthy and free of aches and pains; "I feel good".

19. : capable of pleasing; "good looks".

20. : appealing to the mind; "good music"; "a serious book".

21. : in excellent physical condition; "good teeth"; "I still have one good leg"; "a sound mind in a sound body".

22. : tending to promote physical well-being; beneficial to health; "beneficial effects of a balanced diet"; "a good night's sleep"; "the salutary influence of pure air".

23. : not forged; "a good dollar bill".

24. : not left to spoil; "the meat is still good".

25. : generally admired; "good taste".

Adverb
1. (often used as a combining form) in a good or proper or satisfactory manner or to a high standard; "the children behaved well"; "a task well done"; "the party went well"; "he slept well"; "a well-argued thesis"; "a well-planned party"; (`good' is a nonstandard dialectal variant for `well' as in "the baby can walk pretty good").

2. In a complete and thorough manner; "he was soundly defeated"; (`good' is used informally for `thoroughly' as in "we beat him good").

Noun
1. Benefit; "for your own good"; "what's the good of worrying?".

2. Moral excellence or admirableness: "there is much good to be found in people".

3. That which is good or valuable or useful: "weigh the good against the bad"; "among the highest goods of all are happiness and self-realization".

Source: WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.

I can not hink of any Arabic word in the Qur'an which would meet all of the same definitions there are for Good and Bad. However there are words that would come close to be equated with some if not all of them, so in answer to the origianal question I would say that Islam teaches Good and Bad people can be found among all people.
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