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mikeengland
06-28-2006, 05:32 PM
Greetings My fellow brothers.
without causing problems I would be very greatful if you would allow me to Conduct a Debate on the topic "was muhammad a true prophet" if you would allow me to do this. I will address my case if this is permitted. and May I wish any of my posts not be edited or deleted. I would like to conduct this
Debate with 1 of any of my brothers only here please.

Truth forgiveness and Love to you all here,
God Bless
Mike

Please Permission to begin my case?.
Reply

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Ansar Al-'Adl
06-28-2006, 08:36 PM
Hello Mikeengland,
You have a record for spamming the forum with articles from anti-islamic sites as opposed to engaging in actual discussion. If you want to discuss Prophet Muhammad pbuh, I think it is best for you to first familiarize yourself with his teachings, rather than copy-pasting allegations you've read on other hate sites. Here is where you can read some of his teachings:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...s-prophet.html

Regards
Reply

snakelegs
06-28-2006, 10:15 PM
this is silly.
how can it be proven in any way?
it's strictly a matter of belief.
Reply

mikeengland
06-28-2006, 11:00 PM
Dear Brother Ansar Al-'Adl
Please forgive me for my comment's. I do not go on anti-Islamic websites. I know it sounds like i do but truthfully brother Ansar Al-'Adl I do not. I'd like to address a couple of points which are a direct source of Quran and Hadith, please Sir. Thank-you for your kindness In allowing me to speak truth.

ok I dont want to blurt this out as i know feelings can get involved. So ill just say it.

The Quran in Sura 110:1 says:

When there comes the Help of Allah (to you, O Muhammad, against your enemies) and the Conquest (of Makkah [Mecca]). (Hilali and Khan)

This verse predicts the help of Allah, but Muhammad’s death from sickness and poison indicates the exact opposite; no help or healing came from Allah.

[Muhammad] asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They [some Jews] said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 394:
Narrated Abu Huraira.

Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22)

Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)

now not to sound rude or get banned mr Ansar Al-'Adl but the Truth is:

Muhammad doesnt even Know what will happen to Him In The After-Life. Let Alone to anyone who follows him?

Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."

Before anyone would Post back here, I would like to appologise If This has sounded insulting or rude. But Dear brothers and sisters This is Directly from Quran/Hadith so please do not accuse me of lyeing.

Please if you can Answer my Questions In Friendly Loving Environment.
Thanks
God Bless
Mike
Reply

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chacha_jalebi
06-28-2006, 11:23 PM
mods plz dont close this thread, because we hav heavy debators like brother ansar who can fix dis ppl up in 1 second, so lets debate :D

now mike england, how r u? hows d footy :p u been goin 2 d pub yeh :p :D:D:D:D

now now

well well we will debate in a loving way :D lol

n dnt try it blud u no u blatantly been on anti islamic sites u saddo :p u drunkard :p lol now now before anyone debates i would like to pose some of my own Qs

in the bible it says in 10.30 " i & my father are one" but then in 14.28 it says
"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I"

now dats a blatantly made up thin, bcos it says d father n me r 1, then it says, the father is greater then i!! now now :rollseyes

as regardin ur thins

1st of all when u quote can u plz quote fully blud!!! the REAL hadiths is here
Narrated Abu Huraira:

When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophets as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?'' They said, "Yes.' The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a ie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He siad, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O AbuAl-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." [muslim]

RasoolAllah (saw) knew they were lying about their fathers, and he knew about the sheep, but RasoolAllah (saw) didnt eat the sheep!! also in the hadiths, we can see that RasoolAllah (saw) found out they were lying, HOW DID HE FIND OUT? BECAUSE HE WAS TRUTHFULL!!!
so ur 1st point is CRAP :p

n d sinner bit WOTEVA READ D SURAH BEFORE QUOTIN dats surah momin and the verse goes

"Patiently, then, persevere: for the Promise of Allah is true: and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and celebrate the Praises of thy Lord in the evening and in the morning."

basically its sayin IF YOU have any faults then ask forgiveness for them!!

so so mikey any more stuff frm ur wannabe sites :p
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
06-28-2006, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by mikeengland
The Quran in Sura 110:1 says:

When there comes the Help of Allah (to you, O Muhammad, against your enemies) and the Conquest (of Makkah [Mecca]). (Hilali and Khan)

This verse predicts the help of Allah, but Muhammad’s death from sickness and poison indicates the exact opposite; no help or healing came from Allah.

[Muhammad] asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They [some Jews] said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 394:
Narrated Abu Huraira.

Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22)

Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)
:sl:

The parts in bold seem very familiar. Its as if someone else before you copy/pasted that from a hate website. How strange.

Ive never never heard of a "hilali" translation.

Besides, in the Hadith had it been taken from a Islamic website or something of the sort, there would have been included after the name of the Prophet
"(SAW)" or "(PBUH)".

You obviously didnt type it up because it is free of spelling errors whilst the part in your posts has many spelling errors.

The last part in bold is definetly copied/pasted. Ive seen that same reference in so many anti-islamic websites.

I think you should do a little better when your trying to copy/paste something and then trying to cover it up, its a little too obvious.

:w:
Reply

mahdisoldier19
06-28-2006, 11:55 PM
Dont Worry Akhi, the Mahdi Soldier has Come!


Allright then what do we have here a guy who thinks Muhammad sws wasnt a true prophet comparing to Jesus pbuh. Hmmm Allright lets get it cleared up before i start.

Mr mike i hope you being a christian can answer this portion of the bible for me.

Jeremiah Chapter 8:8 in which it states in the new international version taken from biblegateway.org

Jeremiah 8:8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?

Hmmm so even your own bible goes against christianity and itself, but InshAllah one day you open your eyes

Now if Muhammad sws was a true prophet lets do a comparison test to jesus and moses pbupon both prophets

Area of Comparison

Moses Muhammad Jesus

Birth- Usual - Usual - Unusual

Family Life - Married,Children -Married Children - No marriege(or DVC)

Death - Usual - Usual - Unusual

Career - Prophet/Statesman- Prophet/Statesman- Prophet

Forced emigration- to Median - To Medina - None
(in adulthood)

Encounter with Enemies- Hot pursuit - Hot pursuit/Battles-no similar ecount.

Result of Encounter- moral/physical win - moral/physical win - moral win

Writing of Revelation- in lifetime - in lifetime - After him

Nature of Teachings- Spiritual/legal - Spiritual/legal - Mainly spiritual

Acceptance of --Rejected then accepted- <- Same - Rejected by most Israel
Leadership by his
People

So it seems that Muhammad swsjust by these comparison standards may have resembled Moses pbuh in Prophethood, and oh oh If Muhammadsws not being a prophet, why would he speak of the prophets of old such as Jesus son of mary pbuthem
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-29-2006, 02:45 AM
Hello Mike
Originally Posted by mikeengland
I do not go on anti-Islamic websites.
Excuse me? We had to remove your posts when you were spamming the forum with anti-islamic articles from CARM, as opposed to dialoguing yourself,
Thank-you for your kindness In allowing me to speak truth.
Did you read the link I gave you?

The Quran in Sura 110:1 says:

When there comes the Help of Allah (to you, O Muhammad, against your enemies) and the Conquest (of Makkah [Mecca]). (Hilali and Khan)

This verse predicts the help of Allah, but Muhammad’s death from sickness and poison indicates the exact opposite
No, this verse is prophesizing the conquest of Makkah and other such victories that awaited the Muslims. The translation you quoted even puts that in parenthesis. And this prophecy was fullfilled. Prophet Muhammad pbuh manifestly WAS victorious, his enemies were vanquished and Islam prevailed in arabia, enter tribes entered into Islam in masses, as is prophesized in the verse that follows the one you quoted.
[Muhammad] asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They [some Jews] said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 394:
Narrated Abu Huraira.
This happened immediately after the Battle of Khaybar in 7H, the Prophet and his companions were given a poisoned lamb and after eating from it, some of them died there, as related by Al-Bayhaqi. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh died 4 years later in 11H, only after he completed his mission and finished conveying the message, as was intended by Allah swt.
Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22)
Are you sure? THis is how the Bible portrays Jesus:
He appears rude (John 2:4, Matt. 12:48, Mark 3:33-4), mean-spirited (Matt. 15:26, 17:17, 23:33-5), offensive (John 8:44, Matt. 23:13-29), abusive (Matt. 12:39, 23:23-9, Luke 11:44), disrespectful (Matt. 11:21-3, 16:4, 23:13-9), divisive (Matt. 10:35, Luke 14:26), racist (Matt. 15:26) and prone to violence (Matt. 10:34; Mark 11:15; Luke 12:49-53, 19:27, 22:36). He is even tempted by the devil (Mark 1:13, Luke 4:2). He commands stealing (Matt. 21:1-3, Luke 19:29-34), and may even be a homosexual (Mark 14:49-52, John 13:23).
Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)
This is living proof you are uninterested in learning - I responded to your same claim in november last year!!

Read this post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/118389-post3.html
I refuted all your allegations there which you had copy-pasted, but I never got a response from you.

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Originally Posted by MikeEngland
Muhammad acknowledged in the Qur’an that he is a sinner and asks forgiveness for his sins both past, present and future!

Sura 48:2 That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfill His favor to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way
A couple of points to note here:
1. The belief of the infallibility of the Prophets means that they cannot commit sin but are still susceptible to minor mistakes, like all human beings. See here for more info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/75709-post2.html
2. Maghfirah (forgiveness) implies protection in Islam, as it is derived from the same root as a shielding helmet.
3. Tauba (repentence) in Islam is not just for the sinful, it is for everyone, just like one can bathe when they are dirty, but people bathe regularly, dirty or not dirty.
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
The Prophet Muhammad pbuh used to seek Allah's maghfirah (forgiveness) from all shortcomings, and also remembers that the shortcomings of the Prophets are different from ours. For them, not doing the best possible righteous and noble sacrifice would be a shortcoming. For us ihsaan (the highest moral standard of conduct) is a goal, for them it was an obligation.
I hope you will read my answer this time.

Muhammad doesnt even Know what will happen to Him In The After-Life. Let Alone to anyone who follows him?

Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
Imam At-Tabari quotes narrations explaining this to mean "I do not know what will happen to you or I in this world", meaning that the Prophet pbuh rejected the notion that he possesed knowledge of al-ghayb, the unseen, for only God has complete knowledge. But there are many verses and hadith in which the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his followers are promised paradise if they persevere.

Please if you can Answer my Questions In Friendly Loving
Please read our answers if that is what you want.

Regards
Reply

i_m_tipu
06-29-2006, 05:20 AM
hi mikeengland

Originally Posted by mikeengland
The Quran in Sura 110:1 says:

When there comes the Help of Allah (to you, O Muhammad, against your enemies) and the Conquest (of Makkah [Mecca]). (Hilali and Khan):?
Prophet Muhammad[PUBH]

He was a man with a noble and exalted mission —and his unique mission was to unite humanity in the worship of the One and only God and to teach them the way to honest and upright living in accordance with the laws and commands of God. He always described himself as a Messenger and servant of God, as indeed every single action and movement of his proclaimed him to be.

Some Comment from the non Muslim World
!!! The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all religious personalities of the world."
Bernard Shaw said, "if Muhammad (pbuh) were alive today, he would succeed in solving all those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our times."
!!! Thomas Carlysle was amazed as to how one man, single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades.
Napoleon and Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.



Now pls tell me how can one man, single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering a very uncivilized radical Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades ???????????????????????? How

In 632 CE Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) made a final pilgrimage to Makkah with over 100,000 of his followers, and gave his last sermon. He died a few months later at Medina.

It is very clear that Almighty Allaah, lord of the universe who helps indeed him in many ways in order to make prophet Muhammad[pbuh] successful


This verse predicts the help of Allah, but Muhammad’s death from sickness and poison indicates the exact opposite; no help or healing came from Allah.
Have u read the verse clearly. Ur question has no relation to that verse.
I give u the whole chapter with translation

Al-Qur'an, 110.001-003 (An-Nasr [Succour, Divine Support])

110.001 When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,

110.002 And thou dost see the people enter Allah's Religion in crowds,

110.003 Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).

[Muhammad] asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They [some Jews] said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you." Volume 4, Book 53, Number 394:
Narrated Abu Huraira.
What is ur point

U want Allaah(God) to react for some jews action?? Who changed the law of God?
Allaah react when He will (He had the bigger knowledge and thought)

And Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] did not die that time he die 4 years later from that period of time.

Bro Ansar Al-'Adl give u nice answer

read and reply
Reply

snakelegs
06-29-2006, 08:46 AM
what kind of question is that to ask muslims??!!!
obviously all you want to do is try to prove he wasn't.
this is silly anyway - it can't be proven either way - it's a matter of faith.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-29-2006, 09:02 AM
I believe it can be proven. Just not to those who have a closed mind.
Reply

mikeengland
06-29-2006, 11:33 AM
Well I Thank-you for all your replies. Although none of you have Answered my Direct Questions. Instead it seems I have been swarmed with hyperlinks directing me to other websites and Insults.
Now The topic of this Thread is was muhammad a true prophet.?

My Questions need answering if you please.? 1-3.

1, Does muhammed offer any way of me getting to go to heaven.? Q1. This is a Simple yes/no Reply. (Not wonderful deeds.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Your reply is quote me if im wrong "no-one can know this" are you saying God doesnt know who will or will not go to heaven?.


my Refutal.
The Bible came before the Quran:
And I give unto them eternal life;and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 John 10:28

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:13

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:46

2, Did muhammad do any Miracles? Q2.
----------------------------------------------------------------
again I would appreciate Quranic/hadith verses, and not links to websites as this is not scriptual evidence.

Jesus performed many miracles all in public including healing people, calming a storm with a command, and raising people from the dead.

I would also like to add before i move on to question 3, you have highlighted words from the Bible that suggest allegations towards Jesus. Please can you Quote Full Biblical passages and verses, since I have been so kind as to provide you with full Quran/Hadith verses if you please.

3, Did muhammad predict anything that come to pass? Q3
---------------------------------------------------------------------

But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22

I believe that man was created perfectly in the image of God,
and when he sinned, mankind incurred both physical and spiritual death;

thus man became eternally separated from God and is incapable of providing redemption
for himself.

Now Muhhamad offers no way to Remove my sins. since Adam and Eve where tempted In The Garden and we where born into sin, Can you agree Sin seperates Man from God? (Thats an added Question if you please)

And That we are Indeed Brothers and sisters, and Im Sorry If I sound like I am criticising your belief. But my Intentions are only to Agree on truth. I feel we should all know this for those who wish to turn towards Islam.

Please my Brothers. I thank-you for your Kindness for letting this Friendly Loving Truthful Debate to continue.
May God Bless you all
Mike.
Reply

mikeengland
06-29-2006, 12:01 PM
Sorry but as I stated Earlier I would like to conduct a 1-1 Debate with a Brother here. Since no-one has decided who this will be I would like to nominate brother Ansar Al-'Adl. As I feel he is Kind Friendly and considerate.
Thanks again
Mike
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-29-2006, 12:09 PM
Why just one brother?
Reply

Mohsin
06-29-2006, 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by mikeengland
Sorry but as I stated Earlier I would like to conduct a 1-1 Debate with a Brother here. Since no-one has decided who this will be I would like to nominate brother Ansar Al-'Adl. As I feel he is Kind Friendly and considerate.
Thanks again
Mike
Feel free to have a debate with him bro, you're going to regret it! :happy:
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-29-2006, 12:11 PM
Also... it was snakelegs who said you can't know. And snakelegs is agnostic, not Muslim.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-29-2006, 01:26 PM
Hello Mike,
Since no-one has decided who this will be I would like to nominate brother Ansar Al-'Adl. As I feel he is Kind Friendly and considerate.
Thanks for your kind comments.
Originally Posted by mikeengland
Well I Thank-you for all your replies. Although none of you have Answered my Direct Questions. Instead it seems I have been swarmed with hyperlinks directing me to other websites and Insults.
I protest this generalization in that I answered all your questions directly here in my post and neither swarmed you with links nor insults.
1, Does muhammed offer any way of me getting to go to heaven.? Q1. This is a Simple yes/no Reply. (Not wonderful deeds.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, he does.
Your reply is quote me if im wrong "no-one can know this" are you saying God doesnt know who will or will not go to heaven?.
No, God has complete knowledge, He knows everything.
my Refutal.
The Bible came before the Quran
I'm afraid that's not a valid argument. The Vedas [Hindu scriprtures] came before the Bible. According to your logic, the statements of salvation in the Vedas supercede those of the Bible.

Besides, out of the quotes you have given, the only one which supports your doctrine is from Paul in Romans.
2, Did muhammad do any Miracles? Q2.
----------------------------------------------------------------
again I would appreciate Quranic/hadith verses, and not links to websites as this is not scriptual evidence.
Sure.
CURING OF THE SICK

During the campaign of Uhud, Qattada Bin An-Nu'man (May Allah be pleased with him) was injured in the eye. The eyeball had come out of the socket and was hanging on his cheek. The Prophet (peace be upon him) put it back with his hand and after this incident, that eye was better than the uninjured eye.

Al-Bukhaari related that Yazid bin Abi Ubaid (may Allah be pleased with him) said, ´I saw a scar of a cut on the leg of Abu Muslim. When I asked him, “O Abu Muslim! What is this scar?” He said, “ I was injured in the battle of Khyber. People said, “Himama is injured.” I came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and he blew on the injury three times and after that I did not feel any pain till today.”

Aisha bint Saad narrated on her father’s authority that the Prophet (peace be upon him) visited Saad Bin abi Waqqas (May Allah be pleased with him) while the latter was sick. The Prophet (peace be upon him) put his hand on Saad’s head and wiped his face and stomach, and said “O Allah cure Saad and help him to complete his migration.” Saad said, "From that time till now, I can still feel the cold touch of the hands of the Prophet (peace be upon him)."

Prior to the battle of Khaiber the Prophet (peace be upon him) said “Tomorrow I will give the flag to a man who loves Allah and his Prophet (peace be upon him), and Allah and His Prophet (peace be upon him) love him.” The people spent the night, each one of them eager to be given the banner. In the morning the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked, “where is Ali bin Abi Talib (May Allah be pleased with him)?” They said he is suffering from an eye ailment (Ramadh). The Prophet (peace be upon him) spit in Ali’s eyes and he was cured.

Narrated Jabir (May Allah be pleased with him) Allah’s messenger came to visit while I was sick and unconscious. He performed ablution and sprinkled the remaining water on me and I became conscious…… Al-Bukhaari

INCREASING (BY BLESSING) THE FOOD

These are [similar to the] miracles given to Prophets Jesus (the table) and Moses (increasing the water) peace be upon hem both):

THE STORY OF UMM MA'BAD

The Prophet (peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) on their way to Al-Madina, continued their journey until they reached the solitary tent belonging to a woman called Umm Ma’bad Al-Khuzaiyah. She was a gracious lady who sat at her tent-door with a mat spread out for any chance traveler that might pass by that way. Fatigued and thirsty, the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companion wanted to refresh themselves with food and some milk. The lady told them that the flock was out in the pasture and the goat standing nearby was almost dry. It was a rainless year. The Prophet (peace be upon him) with her permission touched its udders, reciting over them the Name of Allah and to their great joy, there flowed plenty of milk out of them. The Prophet (peace be upon him) first offered the milk to the lady of the house, and he shared what was left with other members of the party. Before he left, he milked the goat again, filled the container and gave it to Umm Ma’bad.

After some time her husband arrived with thin goats hardly having any milk in their udders and he was astonished to see milk in the house. His wife told him that a blessed man passed by the way and gave details about his physical appearance and the manner of talking. Abu Ma’bad immediately realized that the man was the one Quraysh were searching for and asked her to give full description of him and she gave a wonderful account of his physiqueand manners. Abu Ma’bad, after listening to his wife’s account expressed a sincere wish to accompany the Prophet (peace be upon him) whenever possible.

He reiterated his admiration in verses of a poet that echoed all over Makkah to such an extent that the people therein thought it was a jinn inculcating words in their ears. Asma (may Allah be pleased with her), daughter of Abu Bakr, on hearing those lines, got to know that the two companions were heading for Madinah. The short poem opened with thanking Allah for giving them (the Ma’bads) the chance to host the Prophet (peace be upon him) for a while. It then gave an account of the bliss that would settle in the heart of the Prophet’s companion whosoever he was. It closed with an invitation to the whole mankind to come and see by themselves Umm Ma’bad, her goat and the container of milk that would all testify to the truthfulness of the Prophet (peace be upon him) .

INCREASING WATER IN TABUK

When they drew near Tabuk, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “If Allah wills, tomorrow you will arrive at the Tabuk spring. You will not get there before daytime. So whoever reaches it should not touch its water; but wait till I come.” Mu’adh said: “When we reached the spring therewas some water as usual. We found that two men had already arrived before us. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) asked them:‘Have you touched its water?’ They replied, ‘Yes’. He said what Allah inspired him to say, then he scooped up a little water of that spring. It was a thin stream where water gathered. He washed his face and hand with it and poured it back into it; consequently plenty of water spouted out of it so people watered. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said ‘Mu’adh! If you were to live long life you will see in here fields full of vegetation.’ Nowadays Tabuk’s fields are full of vegetation as the Prophet (peace be upon him) foretold.

I would also like to add before i move on to question 3, you have highlighted words from the Bible that suggest allegations towards Jesus. Please can you Quote Full Biblical passages and verses, since I have been so kind as to provide you with full Quran/Hadith verses if you please.
Fair enough. We'll discuss them one at a time. Let's start with anger.

Jesus tells us
Matthew 5:21-22. You have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not commit murder' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca', shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

Yet, amazingly, look at what Jesus does himself!
In Matthew 23 Jesus lashes out at the Jews, (13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!… (16) Woe unto you, you blind guides, … (17) You FOOLS and blind: … (33) You serpents, You generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?!

Jesus said anger was wrong, but he got angry. He said that calling someone 'you fool' makes them guilty enough to go into the fiery hell, but he does it himself. Is this not hypocrisy?

3, Did muhammad predict anything that come to pass? Q3
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PROPHET MUHAMMED (peace be upon him) TELLING OF THE UNSEEN

His telling of some incidents in the future does not mean he knows everything that is to take place in the future. Allah the almighty gave him this advantage in knowledge in certain situations. His people disbelieved in him, yet when he tells them that something will happen in the future, they believed him without a doubt. This does not mean that the Prophet (peace be upon him) could always tell the future or is a fortune-teller.

“Say (O Muhammed) I possess no power of benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I have the knowledge of the Ghaib (unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner, and bring glad tidings unto people who believe.”
[Qur'aan 7:188]

UKAIDIR IN DUMAT AL-JANDAL

The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) dispatched Khalid bin Al-Waleed at the head of four hundred and fifty horsemen to ‘Ukaidir in Dumat Al-Jandal and said to him: “You will see him hunting oryxes.” So when Khalid drew near his castle and was as far as an eye-sight range, he saw the oryxes coming out rubbing their horns against the castle gate. As it was moon light night, Khalid could see Ukaidir come out to hunt them. He captured him, though he was surrounded by his men and brought him back to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) who spared his life and made peace with him for the payment of two thousand camels, eight hundred heads of cattle, four hundred armours and four hundred lances. Prophet (peace be upon him) instructed him to recognize the duty of paying tribute and made him responsible for collecting it from Dumat, Tabuk, Ailah and Taima’.

AN ATTEMPT ON THE LIFE OF THE PROPHET (peace be upon him)

The impact of defeat at Badr was so great that the Makkans began to burn with indignation and resentment over their terrible losses. Two of the polytheists volunteered to quench their thirst and eliminate the source of that humiliation i.e. the Prophet (peace be upon him). ‘Umair bin Wahab Al-Jumahi, a terrible polytheist and an archenemy Safwan bin Omaiyah sat together lamenting their loss and remembering their dead and captives. ‘Umair expressed a fervent desire to kill the Prophet (peace be upon him) and release his captured son in Madinah, if it was not for the yoke of debts he was under and the large family he had to support. Safwan, also had his good reasons to see the Prophet (peace be upon him) killed, so he offered to settle ‘Umair’s debts and support his family if he went on with his plan. ‘Umair agreed and asked Safwan to keep the scheme a secret.

He left for Madinah, with a sword to which he applied some kind of lethal poison. ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) saw him at the door of the Mosque and understood that he had come with evil intentions. He immediately went into the Mosque and informed the Prophet (peace be upon him). He was allowed to enter, looped by the sling of his sword and greeted saying “good morning”, to which the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied that Allah had been Gracious and taught them the greeting of the dwellers of Paradise: “peace be upon you!” To a question raised by the Prophet (peace be upon him) about his object, ‘Umair said that he had come to see that his captured son was well treated. As for the sword, which the Prophet (peace be upon him) inquired him, he cursed it and said that it gained them nothing.

On exhorting him to tell his real goal, he remained adamant and did not divulge the secret meeting with Safwan. Here the Prophet (peace be upon him) got impatient and himself revealed to ‘Umair the latter’s secret mission. ‘Umair was taken by surprise, then an incredible astonishment seized him and he immediately declared his faith in Islam (the Shahaadah). He then began to praise Allah’s compassion for having been guided to the ‘Straight Path’. The Prophet (peace be upon him) was pleased, asked his companions to teach ‘Umair the principles of Islam, recite to him the Noble Qur’an and release his son from captivity. Safwan, meanwhile was still entertaining false illusions as to the approaching redemption of honor and burying the memory of Badr. He was impatiently waiting for ‘Umair’s news but to his great surprise he was told that the man had embraced Islam and become a devoted believer. ‘Umair later came back to Makkah where he started to call people unto Islam and actually managed to convert a lot of Makkans to Islam.

THE STORY OF THE TRENCH

The Muslims were digging the trench during the Battle of the Trench and some supernatural Prophetic signs were shown at that time. Jabir bin ‘Abdullah, seeing the Prophet (peace be upon him) starving, slaughtered a sheep, cooked some barley and requested the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Companions to accept his invitation. But the Prophet (peace be upon him) gathered all the thousand people engaged in digging the trench and they started to eat until they were all completely full and yet the shoulder of mutton and dough that was being baked remained and the food was undiminished.

A woman brought a handful of dates and passed by the Prophet (peace be upon him) who took them. He threw them over his cloak and invited his followers to eat. The dates began to increase in number until they dropped over the brim of his robe.

Another miracle was when a rock stood out as an immune obstacle in the ditch. The Prophet (peace be upon him) took the spade and struck, and the rock immediately turned into a loose sand dune. In another version, Al-Bara’ said: On Al-Khandaq (the trench) Day there stood out a rock too hard for our spades to break up. We therefore went to see the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) for advice. He took the spade, and struck the rock saying “In the Name of Allah, Allah is Great, the keys of Ash-Sham (Geographical Syria) are mine. I swear by Allah, I can see its palaces at the moment;” on the second strike he said: “Allah is Great, Persia is mine, I swear by Allah, I can now see the white palace of Madain.” For the third time he struck the rock saying, “Allah is Great, I have been given the keys of Yemen, I swear by Allah, I can see the gates of San’a while I am in my place.” The rock turned into very small pieces. Ishaq narrated the same version.

The northern part of Madinah was the most vulnerable, all the other sides being surrounded by mountains and palm tree orchards. The Prophet (peace be upon him) as a skillful military expert, understood that the Confederates would march in that direction. So the trench was ordered to be dug on that side. The Muslims went on digging the trench for several days. They used to work during the day and go back home in the evening until it was completed in time and assumed its full dimensions militarily. The huge army of the idolaters which numbered as many as ten thousand fighters, arrived and settled in the vicinity of Madinah in places called Al-Asyal and Uhud.

THE STORY OF AL-HIRAH

Al-Bukhaari narrates that ‘Adi said: “While we were with the Prophet (peace be upon him) a man came and complained to him about poverty. Another man came and complained about highway robbery. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) then said: “O Adi! Have you ever been to Al-Hirah? If you were destined to live a long life, you would be able to see a woman travel from Hirah riding a camel till it circumambulates the Ka'bah fearing none but Allah; and if you were to live long enough you would open the treasures of Kisra. And if you were to live long you would be able to see a man offering a handful of gold or silver to others but no one would accept it.”

At the end of this Hadith ‘Adi later on says: ”I have seen a woman riding camel travel from Al-Hirah till it circumambulates the Ka'bah fearing none but Allah. I have also been one of those who opened the treasures of Kisra bin Hurmuz. If you were to live long life you would witness what the Prophet (peace be upon him), Abul Qasim, had already said about ‘offering a handful of….. ’ i.e. the Prophet’s prophecies did really come true.”

THE STORY OF UTAIBAH

‘Utaibah bin Abi Lahab once came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and most defiantly and brazenly shouted at him, “I disbelieve in, “By the star when it goes down” [53:1] and in “Then he (Gabriel) approached and came closer.” [53:8] In other words: “I do not believe in any of the verses from the Qur’an.” He then became violent and started to deal highhandedly with Muhammed (peace be upon him), tore his shirt and spat at the face but it missed the face of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Thereupon, the Prophet (peace be upon him) invoked Allah’s wrath on ‘Utaibah and supplicated: “O Allah! Set one of Your dogs on him.” Allah responded positively to Muhammed’s supplication, and it happened in the following manner:

Once ‘Utaibah with some of his companions from Quraysh set out for Syria and took accommodation in Az-Zarqa’. There a lion approached the group to the great fear of ‘Utaibah, who at once recalled Muhammed’s words in supplication, and said: “Woe to my brother! This lion will surely devour me just as Muhammed supplicated. He has really killed me in Syria while he is in Makkah." The lion rushed like lightning, snatched ‘Utaibah from amongst his people and crushed his head.

THE STORY OF UBAI BIN KHALAF

Ibn Ishaq related: “One day when the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was going up the hillock, he was followed by Ubai Bin Khalaf who was saying: ‘Where is Muhammed? Either I kill him or I will be killed.’ The Companions of Muhammed (peace be upon him) said: ‘O Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), do you mind if one of us combats with him?’ But the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: ‘Leave him!’ So when he drew nearer, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) took the spear from Al-Harith bin As-Simma. He shivered violently in such a way that all of them scattered in all directions. The Prophet (peace be upon him) faced him (i.e Ubai) and observed his throat through a gap between the wide opening of the armour and the part of his neck enclosed by. He speared him in that spot. The effect of the stroke was so strong that it made him roll off his horse over and over. When he returned to Quraysh, they found that he had only had a small scratch in his neck. So when blood became clotted he said: ‘By Allah, Muhammed has killed me.’ Others heard him and replied, ‘By Allah you are afraid to death. By Allah, you are possessed by a devil.’ But he replied, “He already told me when we were in Makkah, ‘I will kill you.’ By Allah, had he spat on me, he would have killed me.” Eventually, the enemy of Allah breathed his last at a place called Sari, while they were taking him back to Makkah.

THE STORY OF BILAL'S CALL ON THE KA'BAH

After the conquest of Makkah when time for prayer approached, Bilal ascended the Ka'bah and called for prayer. Abu Sufyan bin Harb, ‘Itab bin Usaid and Al-Harith bin Hisham were sitting in the yard. ‘Itab bin Usaid commented on the new situation (Bilal ascending the Ka'bah and calling for prayer) saying that Allah honored Usaid (his father) having not heard such words. The Prophet (peace be upon him) approached and assisted by Divine Revelation told them that he learned about what they had spoken of. Al-Harith and ‘Itab, taken by surprise, immediately professed Islam and bore witness that Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), adding that “We swear by Allah that none had been with us to inform you.”

Now Muhhamad offers no way to Remove my sins.
Yes he did; the way to remove sins is from repentance and good deeds:

The Prophet said: 'One who repents from sin is like one who has no sin.' (Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Mu'jam At-Tabarânî)

The Prophet said: 'Be mindful of Allah wherever you are, and follow up a bad deed with a good one and it will erase it. And behave towards all people in the best manner.' (Musnad Ahmad, Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

since Adam and Eve where tempted In The Garden and we where born into sin, Can you agree Sin seperates Man from God? (Thats an added Question if you please)
Adam and Eve repented from their mistake and God forgave them:
20:121-122. ...Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he erred. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.

Regards
Reply

mikeengland
06-29-2006, 02:07 PM
I think it is Fair That I am only 1 man. So 1 man Answers my Questions.
Then we can discuss I question at a time. Whereas 5 of more posters Reply I am debating with 5 and not 1. This causes Problems on a Forum.
Hope you understand.
Thanks
Mike
Reply

Hijrah
06-29-2006, 02:14 PM
I think the bigger question should be is Jesus was God how come he turned away that Caananite women just because she wasn't a jew and called her a dog. If he was God why were other messengers more successful in spreading their message...if Muhammad(S) isn't a prophet why is it thatthe Quran contains so many scientific miracles given to a man from 1400 years ago....scientists agree to that one...what's up with the Bible Being in third person?
Reply

x Maz x
06-29-2006, 02:40 PM
Peace, Let me start of with a LINK! CHECK IT OUT THIS TIME IT WILL HELP YOUR CLOUDED MIND InshAllah [God-willing]...

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ily-bible.html

Well I Thank-you for all your replies. Although none of you have Answered my Direct Questions. Instead it seems I have been swarmed with hyperlinks directing me to other websites and Insults.
Lol, You’re a rather humorous ol’ codger, My dear brother in humanity, as always I very much doubt you have read the posts and links provided by my brothers/sisters, such a shame…Can you please also state who insulted you and present the evidence for it…I would be sincerely grateful as of yet I have seen nothing by polite manners and a very weak argument from your behalf


1, Does muhammed offer any way of me getting to go to heaven.? Q1. This is a Simple yes/no Reply. (Not wonderful deeds.)
Yesh, Allah knows everything

my Refutal.
The Bible came before the Quran:
And I give unto them eternal life;and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
1 John 10:28
That’s a very weak argument, What is that supposed to prove?, Your contradicting yourself and going off-topic, this isn’t like you…Of course, Allah has given us free will to choose between right and wrong and on Yawmuddin [Day of Judgment/Ressurection] we will be told everything we done in this world…So what if the Bible came before the Quran?, The Bible, Torah, Psalms and Quran were all sent down to mankind as a blessing and guidance to mankind. But like all the scriptures [except al-Quran] The Bible has been altered and words manipulated. The followers of these scriptures after the compilation made many additions and words were distorted. If you analyze the text clearly it is visible that alterations have been made and there are many contradictions, if you have any decent ones that regarding Islam feel free to post them up although many have been debunked and refuted…

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:13
Hold your horses, this is rather contradictory is it not? One verse states him as the Son of God whilst the other declares him as the Lord...Correct me if I am wrong…Also how can he be the Lord if he died for three days? What happened to the World? Did that stop aswell? Surley it cant function without the power of God?

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23
*Sighs*..This Life is a blessing but also a test and again I put a emphasis on it this time, On the day of Judgment Allah will ask all that we have done in this Dunya and surely that will be our FINAL exam which will decide whether we enter HELL/HEAVEN

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:46
Indeed, the souls who had bad conduct and the disbeliveers will suffer in Hell and the righteous will endure eternal bliss in Jannatul Firdous [Heaven], InshAllah [God-willing] that is the abode for the pious servants of Allah…



2, Did muhammad do any Miracles? Q2.
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Dearest brother in humanity, if you read the site you might even attain some Islamic knowledge and you might find the verses you see... Your using the statement below to bring about a somewhat competition but nay there most definitely is no competition between the Prophets [Peace & Blessings be upon them all]…JazakAllah Khair Breda Ansar for that, Allah reward you for your efforts Ameen and hope that’s enough Mikey…

Jesus performed many miracles all in public including healing people, calming a storm with a command, and raising people from the dead.
Yes indeed and the Quran acknowledges this. His birth in itself was a miracle SubhanAllah [Glory be to Allah], but this was power given by Allah, the All-Mighty to His Prophet Is’aa [Jesus]…The Quran fully explains in Surah Al-Imran the birth and the miracles of Jesus.

Is’aa [Pbuh] was like any other; a Prophet sent as guidance to mankind...

“We have sent a messenger to every nation. Serve Allah [Alone] and turn aside from false gods.” [16:36]

3, Did muhammad predict anything that come to pass? Q3
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Yes, There are many things, if you look through ah-hadeeth you can find several extracts where the Prophet [Pbuh] speaks about future signs, there are many regarding the signs of Qiyaama, and signs relating to that which are present today, If you wish me to tell you the link for that I would happily do so, but you don’t like links eh, cause someone’s a bit of lazy to bother reading them *eyes rolly*…Again Ansar has covered many signs which have come to pass, do ask nicely if you wish to hear about anymore
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22

I believe that man was created perfectly in the image of God,
and when he sinned, mankind incurred both physical and spiritual death; thus man became eternally separated from God and is incapable of providing redemption
for himself.
“Allah! There is none worthy of worship except Him, the Living and the Ever Lasting! Slumber does not overtake Him nor does sleep, whatever is in the Heavens and in the Earth belongs to Him. Who is there to plead to Him except with His permission? He knows what lies before them and what is behind them, while they grasp nothing of His knowledge except what He may wish. His authority extends over the Heavens and Earth; Preserving them both does not overburden Him. He is the Sublime, the Exalted”

We are not made in the image of God, Verily Allah has the best attributes, we are not worthy of them and it is considered a sin [shirk: associating partners with Allah] to even begin to think we are that sublime…Allahu Akbar [Allah is the greatest]

Now Muhhamad offers no way to Remove my sins. Since Adam and Eve where tempted In The Garden and we where born into sin, Can you agree Sin seperates Man from God? (Thats an added Question if you please)
Why do you think he was sent by Allah?..SubhanAllah the Prophet [Pbuh] taught mankind how to expiate ones sins i.e. through repentance [prayer] and du’aa [supplication]…He taught man how to pray and seek the forgiveness of Allah [swt]…When the world came into being Allah [swt] decreed that His mercy overcame his anger

Ibn ‘Abbas reported that the Prophet [Pbuh] said: Whoever adheres to seeking Allah’s forgiveness will be one for whom Allah will create a way out of every difficulty, for whom Allah will relieve every anxiety and for whom Allah will supply provisions from sources that he could never imagine.

“In fact, Allah loves those who turn unto Him [seeking His forgiveness]” [Surah al-Baqarah, 2:222]

And That we are Indeed Brothers and sisters, and Im Sorry If I sound like I am criticising your belief. But my Intentions are only to Agree on truth. I feel we should all know this for those who wish to turn towards Islam.
No Thank you for taking your time out to express yourself but I feel your arguments to be very weak and we all know Islam is the best hehe…Indeed I await the response of the more knowledgeable brothers and sisters to refute your argument

May God guide to to whats right and shower His blessings upon you Ameen
Regards Maz x
Reply

IceQueen~
06-29-2006, 02:43 PM
YES muhammad (P)was a true prophet
anyone gotta prob with that?-then :
1-clear ur mind
2-open ur mind
3-read the revelation sent to prophet Muhammad(P)
4-find a mosque..
Reply

chacha_jalebi
06-29-2006, 03:02 PM
elo ello mikey :D

regardin Q1 - yesh - the Prophet (saw) is given the title of Rehmat Til Aalimeen, meanin mercy 4 all mankind, so yesh 2 question 1

Q2 - Miracles :D

he has done many mashallah!!! the biggest miracle given to the Prophet (saw) was the Quran!! but he has done many .....

the splittin of the moon,

when the Prophet (saw) first came with his message, there was people such as yaself :p who denied the message,& they used 2 ask for signs, that the Prophet (saw) was truthful, so Allah (swt) gave the Prophet (saw) a miracle 2 perform, and that was to split the moon!!

its reported in Bukhari by Hadhrat Anas ibn Malik (ra) who said "the people of makkah asked the Prophet (saw) for a sign & he showed them the splittin of the moon"

its also reported in Tirmidhi aswell!!!

alsoo ....

also once the Prophet (saw) was on a expedition, and he asked for water for ablution, but no one had any water, and he asked Hadhrat Jabir (ra) to look for water in the camps, and Hadhrat Jabir (ra) found one person with a drop of water in his water skin, so he brang that to the Prophet (saw) and said "this is the only water", so the Prophet (saw) took that little drop of water and dropped it into a bowl, and then he said something which Hadhrat Jabir (ra) couldnt hear, and he siad Bismillah 3 times, and asked Jabir (ra) to pour the water over him and say Bismillah, and when this was done, water began pouring out of the Prophet (saw) butifull fingers and everyone had enough water to drink & do ablution aswell!!!

this is a authentic hadiths in Muslim!! woo hoo

see there are many miracles that the Prophet (saw) performed by the will of Allah (swt)

also

once the Prophet (saw) went to a date tree farm fingy :D and ......

when he got there he saw, once of the owners of the date farm, climbing on a camel and getting dates down from the tree & waterring the trees, and as soon as the Prophet (saw) came in the date farm, the camel saw him and began to cry out, and the Prophet (saw) went up to the camel & stroked him & then said to the owner "Will you not fear Allah (swt) regarding this animal of which Allah (swt) has given to you as a possession, it complains to me saying you make it work hard and you hurt it"


so this shows RasoolAllah (saw) understood the camel & made the owner understand, which is clearly another miracle!! BRAP BRAPPP :D and its reported by Abu Dawud!!!

one more :p for gud luck :p

when the Prophet (saw) built Masjib Quba, they built it on four trees, making a square and covered the top of it making the roof, and when the Prophet (saw) used to give his speeches, he used to lean on the tree and give his speech, and then a sahaba said, that they should build a pulpit for the Prophet (saw) to give his khutba (speech) so he dont have to stand, so when the pulpit was built and the Prophet (saw) sat on it, everyone in the mosque heard a crying noise, and they all looked round but couldnt find where the noise came from! then they saw the tree that the Prophet (saw) leaned on getin cracks in it, so @ seeing this, the Prophet (saw) went upto the tree and put his hand on it, and stroked it, then the crying noise stopped, and ever since that the Prophet (saw) used to pray next to that tree!!

and this is reported by Ibn Majah, Ahmad and Ad Darimi!!

this shows that even the tree had love for RasoolAllah (saw) it didnt want him to go away from it, and give the khutba somewhere else, see this is a miracle!! that the trees are giving witness that the Prophet (saw) is the truthful one the best one!!!


Q3 - Telling about what to come!!

when the Prophet (saw) was moving to Madinah, because Makkah, was unsafe for him, Allah (swt) told him that in the night he should move because the Quraish were gona try to kill him, so he asked Hadhrat Ali (ra) to sleep in his bed, and he would move secretly, so the quraish will still think he is in his bed, now this is a sign, that he could tell what was gona happen!!

also in a hadiths the Prophet has said "i feel a cool wind coming from Al Hind" i.e - the People of Al Hind = India, PAKISTAN will convert to islam, and we know a few years later, all of al hind was ruled by muslims, and majority of people there are muslims, so thats a sign of the future so wooo hooo :D:D:D

as it says in surah fussilat v 53

"We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realize that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?"


so its upto if you wana belive!! because Allah (swt) says in the Quran, we wil show u our signs, until u realize its the truth!

any more ..... mikey :D:D
Reply

chacha_jalebi
06-29-2006, 03:35 PM
and by you saying the bible came before the quran, lets put it in this way :D

if theres two mobiles, one old and one new, and the old one is okie doks, but the new is a upgrade of the old one, and it has better thins in it!! im sure ebeyone wud say they wana have the new one

so thats the same with the Quran, its new, the bible it gods word, but the real bible has been changed, and it has been proven contradictory & scientificaly wrong!! whereas no1 has been able to prove the Quran wrong!!
Reply

mikeengland
06-29-2006, 04:41 PM
1, Does muhammed offer any way of me getting to go to heaven.? Q1.This is a Simple yes/no Reply. (Not wonderful deeds.)
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Yes, he does.
Quote:
Your reply is quote me if im wrong "no-one can know this" are you saying God doesnt know who will or will not go to heaven?.
No, God has complete knowledge, He knows everything.
Yet if he Knows everything here we see muhammad saying:
Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."

So by your Statement "God knows Everything" And "no-one can know This" Muhammad is supposed to be a messeger of God. Which is revealed to him. So His Statement "nor do I know what will be done with me or with you." in Sura 46:9 We can only Agree is an understatement and Contradiction of a man who Simply doesnt know his own Eternal Destiny. Yet alone anyone else's. Again Scriptual Evidence if you Please. So as far as I am Concerned on This matter this is Refuted.

Fair enough. We'll discuss them one at a time. Let's start with anger.

Jesus tells us
Matthew 5:21-22. You have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not commit murder' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca', shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

Yet, amazingly, look at what Jesus does himself!
In Matthew 23 Jesus lashes out at the Jews, (13) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!… (16) Woe unto you, you blind guides, … (17) You FOOLS and blind: … (33) You serpents, You generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?!

Jesus said anger was wrong, but he got angry. He said that calling someone 'you fool' makes them guilty enough to go into the fiery hell, but he does it himself. Is this not hypocrisy?
As I said I have provided Full verses from Quran /Hadith. So In your Response we can look at what Matt 23:13 and The Other Verses actually Read.:

13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

16
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Jesus said anger was wrong, but he got angry
Jesus did not get Angry ok.
33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

This Verse is clearly saying we are like a Generation of Snakes how can we escape The Damnation of Hell? The Snake been the Serpant Who tempted Adam and Eve In The Garden In The First Place.

I Said
since Adam and Eve where tempted In The Garden and we where born into sin, Can you agree Sin seperates Man from God? (Thats an added Question if you please)
Adam and Eve repented from their mistake and God forgave them:
20:121-122. ...Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he erred. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.
So you agree The Serpant Tempted them In the Garden. ok heres What The Bible Says

Gen 3, 8 - 18


8
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9
And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?


10
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.


11
And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13
And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.


14
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

(Snake/Viper)

15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

So The Truth is God DID NOT forgive Adam and eve of there Sin.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Again I have Refuted your Claims Mr Ansar Al-'Adl.

And Just to Add about The Muslims claims. "That God cannot become a Man"

8
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

God walking in the garden in the cool of the day; Also Refutes any Claim that God cannot appear as a Man.

Thank-you.
In Jesus name
Mike
Reply

Silver Pearl
06-29-2006, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by mikeengland
Yet if he Knows everything here we see muhammad saying:
Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."

So by your Statement "God knows Everything" And "no-one can know This" Muhammad is supposed to be a messeger of God. Which is revealed to him. So His Statement "nor do I know what will be done with me or with you." in Sura 46:9 We can only Agree is an understatement and Contradiction of a man who Simply doesnt know his own Eternal Destiny. Yet alone anyone else's. Again Scriptual Evidence if you Please. So as far as I am Concerned on This matter this is Refuted.



Greetings Mike,

You would understand the meaning of that verse if you had read the commentary behind what it means. Let’s look at what the verse actually means.

(Say) to them, O Muhammad: (I am no new thing among the messengers (of Allah)) Commentary :I am not the first human being to be sent as Messenger, there were many messengers before me

(nor know I what will be done with me or with you)Commentary: in relation to hardship, comfort and well-being; it is also said that this verse was revealed about some of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) who asked him about when to leave Mecca in order to escape from the persecution of the disbelievers. So the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I do not know what will be done with me or with you; nor whether we should migrate from Mecca or not”.

(I do but follow) Commentary: act upon

(that which is inspired in me) Commentary: that which I am commanded in the Qur’an,


(and I am but a plain warner) Commentary: a warning messenger who addresses you in a language that you understand.

Muhammad (peace be upon him) only knew what had been revealed to him. That does not suddenly mean he was not a prophet. Now that we have established the Commentary behind the verse I’m sure the issue will not need to be picked upon.

As for the rest of your quotes from the bible, it is of little relevance to the matter being discussed here.

Regards,

Silver Pearl
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-29-2006, 05:20 PM
Mike wants a 1-1 debate, so let him have it. Ansar can handle it.
W'salaam
Reply

mikeengland
06-29-2006, 05:37 PM
Adam and Eve repented from their mistake and God forgave them:
20:121-122. ...Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he erred. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.
Notice His word erred.

2
How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?
3
These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourselves strange to me.
4
And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.
(job 19: 2-4)
Reply

mikeengland
06-29-2006, 05:40 PM
Thank-you Brother Umm_Shaheed

Mike wants a 1-1 debate, so let him have it. Ansar can handle it.
W'salaam
Yes Please Thank-you for understanding Brother Umm_Shaheed.
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-29-2006, 05:42 PM
I'm a sister. But, erm, any time.
Reply

Abu Zakariya
06-29-2006, 05:50 PM
You want a debate Mike, but still you don't want to read what the other guy is saying and you don't want to answer. It's really frustrating for someone to debate with a person like you, because a lot of effort is put on writing an answer to your post, which you then ignore.

I mean, Ansar al-'Adl wrote that God know everything, and still you write:

Yet if he Knows everything here we see muhammad saying:
Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
I.e., you answer with a proof that Muhammad (peace be upon him) didn't know everything to Ansars statement that God know everything. I mean, what kind of an answer is that? "Refuting" his post (which said that God know everything) by showing that someone totally different didn't know everything.
And he also explained what was meant by that verse in an earlier post, which you didn't answer to.

Also, you completely ignored to answer this:

Jesus said (according to the Bible):
and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." Matt. 5:22

Yet another verse claims he called the people:
You FOOLS and blind: …

You ignored this too.

Please, if you want a debate, answer the points of your opponent.
Reply

Syed Hussain
06-29-2006, 05:51 PM
Mike read the Seerah, the life of the prophet and you shall understand if he was a true prophet or not. Read his examples and you shall understand how he lived his life. his life was that full of submission to Allah and full of Modesty.
Mohammed was a true prophet because if you read how he dealt with stuff and the laws he set out for every one, Muslims and Non-Muslims you shall understand how great of a Man he was.
All the prophets are TRUE and especially Mohammed (SAW)
in the qur'an it says 'Muhammad was sent as a mercy for mankind' read his life story and understand how his decisions helped resolve conflict between Muslims and Non-Muslims and how both sides had won without any violence unless needed. his examples and decisions and his steps and life story should make you understand if he was true or not. its a matter of faith and belief.
look at how he lived his life, if we were to live like that, EVERYONE, there would be no disunity and everyone would live together in peace and harmony and no one would differentiate with each other.
Hope this answers your question and do try and read his life story. the best seerah book of the prophet is called 'the sealed nectar'
Reply

chacha_jalebi
06-29-2006, 05:54 PM
mikey if the Prophet (saw) didnt know his eternal destiny then, why is he promised Al Kauther (a fountain in heaven) in the hereafter? obviosly to get the fountain he has to be in heaven! so he does know his destiny! and sister pearl fixed up ur misunderstandin of the verse!! :D:D

also i dont think you can choose who you want to debate with, if you say something we will answer if we can, if we cant we cant dats d way it is :p! and if you want to debate with brother ansar you can, because he is probly one the most knowlegdeable bro's ere :p so gud luck, but if someone wants to answer they can aswell :D:D its not up to you!!

the point of a debate is to prove one side wrong n the other side has to prove they are right, if you are right then you should be able to prove billions of people wrong by yourself, so it dont matter how much people debate, you should answer all, if u realy believe your right :D

look forward to your posts mikey :D:D
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
06-29-2006, 06:10 PM
Look at what Mike has said:
Originally Posted by mikeengland
I think it is Fair That I am only 1 man. So 1 man Answers my Questions.
Then we can discuss I question at a time. Whereas 5 of more posters Reply I am debating with 5 and not 1. This causes Problems on a Forum.
Hope you understand.
Thanks
Mike
Don't you think you should all respect that?
Let Ansar handle it.
W'salaam
Reply

chacha_jalebi
06-29-2006, 06:12 PM
not really no :p

but okie doks lol :D gwaan mikey and ansar :D you lot debate it out :D
Reply

mikeengland
06-29-2006, 06:43 PM
Again Thank-you Sister Umm_Shaheed
appologies for my assumption.

I will await for Mr Ansar to respond to my topic. until I reply,
Thanks for understanding,
and letting this Debate continue In a Loving Friendly truthful Debate.
Thanks
Mike England
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-29-2006, 09:05 PM
Hello Mike,
Thanks for your response.
Originally Posted by mikeengland
Yet if he Knows everything here we see muhammad saying:
Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."
Didn't I just answer this? God knows everything. Prophet Muhammad pbuh does not. Everything Prophet Muhammad pbuh knew came from the revelation of Allah swt, and Allah swt did not reveal to him all the knowledge of the unseen. What about that is difficult for you to understand?
So by your Statement "God knows Everything" And "no-one can know This" Muhammad is supposed to be a messeger of God. Which is revealed to him
I never made the statement "no one can know this". God knows everything, His knowledge is unlimited. The Prophet pbuh does not know everything, his knowledge is limited to what was revealed to him by Allah. None of this negates his prophethood.

. So His Statement "nor do I know what will be done with me or with you." in Sura 46:9 We can only Agree is an understatement and Contradiction of a man who Simply doesnt know his own Eternal Destiny.
The only thing we can agree is that you completely ignored my explanation. Why? You've chosen to distort this verse to mean that Muslims and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh do not know if they will go to heaven or hell, and I have shown that the verse does not entail such a meaning in any way. The verse simply points out that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not know all the things that would happen to him and his followers in this life. He knew some things which were revealed to him by Allah swt, and this is why we have the prophecies I posted in my last post which you chose to ignore entirely.

The fact that Prophet Muhammad pbuh will be rewarded with paradise is explictly confirmed in the Qur'an:
60:3-4. And verily, for you (O Muhammad ) will be an endless reward. And verily, you (O Muhammad ) are on an exalted standard of character.

The fact that we know the believers are promised paradise if they follow the truth is confirmed in the Qur'an itself in several verses; I'll just give you one.

Qur'an 9:72. Allah hath PROMISED to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is [attaining] the pleasure of Allah: that is the supreme felicity.

So you're claim that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and the Muslims have no promise of paradise is refuted clearly.

So In your Response we can look at what Matt 23:13 and The Other Verses actually Read.:

13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

16
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Thank you for pasting them for us. Now are you going to deny that he said 'you fools' ?

This is the contradiction:
Jesus says: "and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." (Matthew 5:22)
And yet Jesus also says: You fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (Matthew 23:17)
Can you see the contradiction between these verses? The first states that if someone says "you fool" to someone else, then they are guilty of hell, and in the second verse Jesus does it himself!!
Jesus did not get Angry ok.
He quite clearly did. Why else would he lash out and call the Jews fools, blind, generation of vipers, serpents, and hypocrites?? Those are not pleasant things to call someone, they are insults.
So you agree The Serpant Tempted them In the Garden.
I didn't agree to anything about a serpent. That is from the Bible entirely. All that Islam says is that Satan caused them to slip, but they repented and God forgave them.
So The Truth is God DID NOT forgive Adam and eve of there Sin.
Prove it. I do not accept the Bible as an authority; all you've done is quote the Bible and then conclude that it is true. That is the logical fallacy we call petitio principii - you have assumed what you have yet to prove. You are already assuming that the Bible is the truth. So I say that God forgave them and all you do is say, "No, the bible says God didn't forgive them therefore the truth is they were not forgiven! Ha, I refuted you!"

Again I have Refuted your Claims Mr Ansar Al-'Adl.
I am afraid you haven't. All you have done is quote the Bible and then you have fallaciously concluded that since the Bible says it, it is therefore correct. While you are free to believe that yourself, it does not constitute a valid logical argument against an opponent who does not accept the Bible as an authority.

And Just to Add about The Muslims claims. "That God cannot become a Man"

8
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

God walking in the garden in the cool of the day; Also Refutes any Claim that God cannot appear as a Man.
Perfect example of petitio principii.

Your argument is:
1. Islam says God cannot become a man.
2. The Bible says He did.
3. Therefore Islam is wrong.

I'm afraid that is not valid reasoning, Mike. I don't accept the Bible as the truth.

Lastly, since you have not responded to the miracles and prophecies I pasted, I will take this as a admission that your questions were refuted on that subject.

Regards
Reply

unknown_JJ
06-30-2006, 03:56 PM
WHAT IS THE FACT?

· Cartoonists caricature him mean
· Wise men adore him a great man
· Billion (1,126,325,000) bear him witness a messenger of God

YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS MAN

ENCYCLOPEADIA BRITANNICA confirms: “….A mass of detail in the early sources show that he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were like-wise honest and upright men.” (Vol.12)

GEORGE BERNARD SHAW said about him:
· “If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay the Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam.
· I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence, which can make itself appeal to every age.
· I have studied him – the wonderful man and in my opinion, far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the savior of Humanity.
· I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness.
· I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today”. (Sir George Bernard Shaw in ‘The Genuine Islam’, vol. 1, No. 8, 1936)

HE DID IT…..
· He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth.
· He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, and initiated numerous social and political reforms.
· He established a powerful and dynamic society to practice and represent his teachings and completely revolutionized the worlds of human thought and behavior for all times to come.


YES! HE IS MUHAMMAD (May Peace of God be Upon Him (pbuh)

He was born in Arabia in the year 570, started his mission of preaching the religion of Truth-Islam (submission to one God) at the age of forty and departed from this world at the age of sixty-three.



HIS MISSION
During this short period of 23 years of his Prophet Hood, he changed the complete Arabian Peninsula.
· From paganism and idolatry to SUBMISSION to ONE God.
· From tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion.
· From drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety.
· From lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living.
· From utter bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence.

Human history has never known such a complete transformation of a society or a place before or since - and IMAGINE all these unbelievable wonders in JUST OVER TWO DECADES.

MICHEAL H. HART in his book on the 100 most influential men in history ranked Muhammad (pbuh) first in the list as he who contributed towards the benefit and upliftment of mankind thus: “My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the ONLY MAN IN HISTORY WHO WAS SUPREMELY SUCCESSFUL ON BOTH THE RELIGIOUS AND SECULAR LEVELS.”
- (M.H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, NEW YORK, 1978, p.33)

LAMAR TINE, the renowned historian, speaking on the essentials of human greatness wonders:
· “If greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad?
· The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes.
· This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls….
· His forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire;
· His endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death;
· All these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma.
· This dogma was two-fold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words.
· “philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images,
· The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is MUHAMMAD.
· As regards all the standards by which Human Greatness may be measured, we may well ask,
· IS THERE ANY MAN GREATER THAN HE?”
- (Alphonse de Lamar tine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp 276-277)

· The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one-sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields, such as religious thought or military leadership.
· The lives and teachings of these great personalities of the world are shrouded in the mist of time.
· There is so much speculation about the time and place of their birth, the mode and style of their life, the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity to reconstruct accurately the lives and teachings of these men.

DIWAN CHAND SHARMA wrote thus:
· “Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him.” – (D.C. Sharma, THE PROPHETS OF THE EAST, Calcutta, 1935, pp. 12)

EDWARD GIBBON and SIMON OCKLEY: Speaking on the profession of ISLAM write: “‘I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD, AND MOHAMET, AN APOSTLE OF GOD’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The Intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honor of the prophet has never transgressed the measure of human virtues; and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.” (HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRES, London, 1870, p. 54).

HE IS NOT GOD
· Muhammad (pbuh) was nothing more or less than a human being. But he was a man with a noble mission, which was to unite humanity on the submission to ONE and ONLY GOD and to teach them the way to ideal and upright living based on the commands of God.
· He always described himself as ‘A servant and Messenger of God’, and so indeed every action of his proclaimed to be so.

The famous poetess of India, SAROJINI NAIDU says:
· “it was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for, in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: ‘God Alone is Great’….
· I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother.” – (S. Naidu, IDEALS OF ISLAM, vide Speeches & Writings, Madras, 1918, p. 169)

IN THE WORDS OF PROF. HURGONJE
· “The league of nations founded by the prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations”.
· He continues: “the fact is that no Nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done towards the realization of the idea of the League of Nations.”


- The world has not hesitated to raise to divinity, individuals whose lives and missions have been lost in Legend. Historically speaking, none of these legends achieved even a fraction of what Muhammad (pbuh) accomplished. And all his striving was for the sole purpose of uniting mankind for the worship of One God on the codes of moral excellence.
- Muhammad (pbuh) or his followers never at any time claimed that he was a Son of God or God-incarnate or a man with divinity – but he always was and is even today considered as only a Messenger chosen by God.
- Today, after a lapse of fourteen centuries, the life and teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation. They offer the same undying hope for treating mankind’s many ills, which they did when he was alive.
- THIS IS NOT A CLAIM OF MUHAMMAD’S (PBUH) FOLLOWERS BUT ALSO THE INESCAPABLE CONCLUSION FORCED UPON BY A CRITICAL AND UNBIASED HISTORY.
- This man Muhammad (pbuh) accomplished so much in such diverse fields of human thought and behavior in the fullest blaze of human history.
- Every detail of his private life and public utterances have been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to our day. The authenticities of the record so preserved are vouched for not only by the faithful followers but also EVEN BY HIS PREJUDICED CRITICS.
- Muhammad (pbuh) was a teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, an administrative colossus, a faithful friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father – all in one.
- No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in any of these different aspects of life – but it was only for the selfless personality of Muhammad (pbuh) to achieve such incredible perfections.

MAHATMA GANDHI

Speaking on the character of Muhammad (pbuh) says in YOUNG INDIA:
· “I wanted to know the best of one who holds today’s undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind…..
· I became more than convinced that it was NOT THE SWORD THAT WORN A PLACE FOR ISLAM IN THOSE DAYS IN THE SCHEME OF LIFE.
· It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. THESE AND NOT THE SWORD CARRIED EVERYTHING BEFORE THEM AND SURMONUTED EVERY OBSTACLE. When I close the 2nd volume (of the prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life.”

THOMAS CARLYLE in his HEREOS AND HEROWORSHIP was simply amazed as to:
· “How one man single – handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades.”

“THE LIES (WESTERN SLANDER) WHICH WELL-MEANING ZEAL HAS HEAPED ROUND THIS MAN ARE DISGRACEFUL TO OURSELVES ONLY.”

“A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world, the world’s maker had ordered so.”


NOW PLEASE RELAX FOR A MOMENT
· The least YOU can do as thinking and concerned human being is to stop for a moment and ask yourself: “could these statements sounding so extraordinary and revolutionary be really true?”
· And supposing they really are true and you do not know this man MUHAMMAD (pbuh) or hear about him, isn’t it time you responded to this tremendous challenge and put in some effort to know him?
Reply

mikeengland
06-30-2006, 05:16 PM
Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Adam and Eve repented from their mistake and God forgave them:
20:121-122. ...Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he erred. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.

Notice His word erred.
2
How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?
3
These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourselves strange to me.
4
And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.
(job 19: 2-4)
you totally ignored This Refutal.

And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.

I didn't agree to anything about a serpent. That is from the Bible entirely. All that Islam says is that Satan caused them to slip, but they repented and God forgave them.
Quote:
So The Truth is God DID NOT forgive Adam and eve of there Sin.
Prove it. I do not accept the Bible as an authority; all you've done is quote the Bible and then conclude that it is true. That is the logical fallacy we call petitio principii - you have assumed what you have yet to prove. You are already assuming that the Bible is the truth. So I say that God forgave them and all you do is say, "No, the bible says God didn't forgive them therefore the truth is they were not forgiven! Ha, I refuted you!"

Quote:
Again I have Refuted your Claims Mr Ansar Al-'Adl.
I am afraid you haven't. All you have done is quote the Bible and then you have fallaciously concluded that since the Bible says it, it is therefore correct. While you are free to believe that yourself, it does not constitute a valid logical argument against an opponent who does not accept the Bible as an authority.
Well Mr Ansar Al-'Adl

Sura 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah),
the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord."

Sura 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians,
saying, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say,
"We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you;
Our Allah and your Allah is one;

The Christian Bible predates Muhammad and Islam by 500 years. The Jewish Torah predates Muhammad and Islam by 1,000 - 3,000 years.

So we can see who is Lyeing here.

The Torah are the First 5 books of The Bible Including the first being Genesis yet you contradict yourself and your Religion by saying:

Prove it. I do not accept the Bible as an authority; all you've done is quote the Bible and then conclude that it is true. That is the logical fallacy we call petitio principii - you have assumed what you have yet to prove. You are already assuming that the Bible is the truth. So I say that God forgave them and all you do is say, "No, the bible says God didn't forgive them therefore the truth is they were not forgiven! Ha, I refuted you!"
Ha you Refuted and contradicted muhammad is all i can see.

Islam claims that Allah is the same God who was revealed in the Bible. . . .
then if the Bible and the Quran have differing views of God,
then Islam's claim is false.

Don't forget that Muhammad claimed in Suras 2:87, 29:46, 32:23, 5:44, 6:154, 6:155
that Allah confirmed the Torah (Taurat) and Christian Gospel (Injeel)
(Sura 2:87, 5:46, 5:68, 29:46 and 43:63).
So, if the Torah and Gospel are correct, all the errors in the Quran make the Quran false.

I'm afraid that is not valid reasoning, Mike. I don't accept the Bible as the truth.
- Sura 6:74, says Abraham father's name was Azar.
The Bible says it was Terah (Genesis 11:27).
How can Muhammad claim he verified the Torah which came first as true, yet differ with the facts in the Torah?


Mr Ansar Al-'Adl
The Christian Bible predates Muhammad and Islam by 500 years.
The Jewish Torah predates Muhammad and Islam by 1,000 - 3,000 years.
Muhammad said for Muslims to read the Bible for "Guidance and Light.
" For Islam to say they are corrupted/False, then is to call Muhammad a liar for recommending it.


Of Course we have seen muhammad approves of Killing and having the Killer Tell LIES.


"Narrated Jabir Abdullah: "Allah's messenger said "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His apostle?
"Thereupon Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's messenger! Would you like that I kill him?"
The prophet said, "Yes". Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Ka'b).
The prophet said, "You may say it."… (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Number 369)

I would Like to ask Mr Ansar Al-'Adl For proof of the existence of Muhammad if you please?..........

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to your point about alleged Miracles:

There are no recorded miracles of Muhammad in the Quran, (REFUTED)
but when Muhammad's followers saw Muhammad's inferiority to Jesus they started making some up in the Hadith:
Muhammad cut the moon in half with a sword,
Obviously we cannot see Demon/Evil spirits or God so the spilitting of the moon does not mean to say it is from God.

a palm tree cried like a baby because Muhammad wouldn't preach under it, Palm Trees do not cry to be preached under, Lets get realistic here.
Muhammad made water flow out of his fingernails so that people could drink--the Hadith contradicts itself on how many supposedly people drank it.
These made up "miracles" go on and on.

Also, the Hadith makes it clear that Muhammad was a sinner--NOT sinless as some Muslims now claim:
"Muhammad replied..."O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." Volume 1, number 711. See also (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)
Again I have Refuted Claims that muhammad was sinless. (REFUTED)

- Sura 17:90-94 of the Qur'an tells about how,
when Muhammad was challenged to perform a miracle and prove he was from the true god,
he could not perform any and here he actually says himself: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger? ".

- In Sura 13:7, we find that Muhammad did not perform any miracles.
The people are saying that even one sign would be enough to convince them,
just one miracle performed by Muhammad - and yet he still does none....

All along, the unbelievers asked Muhammad to perform a miracle so that they could believe.
All they got in response was,

- Sura 17:90
They say: "We will by no means believe in you until you cause a fountain to gush forth from the earth for us.,"

And Muhammad would reply:

- Sura 17:93
Say: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger?"


Muhammad did no miracles.
He did not heal the sick, raise the dead, raise himself from the dead, cure the Blind, walk on water
cast out demons, or rule the wind and the waves. He had no more power than any normal man.
So Eternal Life and promises of paradise is a total joke Mr Ansar Al-'Adl.

So Again I ask you Mr Ansar Al-'Adl For proof of the existence of Muhammad.?

My Direct Questions you have sidestepped on muhammads propethood. Instead your Defence is to attack the Bible.
When Muhammad and your God Tell you to Agree with the facts in the Torah? Which you Blatently deny.

I'VE ALLOWED YOU A FAIR BIT OF LENIENCY IN ALL THE ALLEGATIONS YOU WISH TO RAISE, BUT COMPLETELY DEVIATING FROM THE TOPIC AND BRINGING UP AN ENTIRELY NEW ALLEGATION, SUCH AS THE PROPHET'S MARRIAGE TO AISHA RD, IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. PLEASE STICK TO THE TOPIC AND WE CAN DISCUSS THE ISSUES ONE AT A TIME.

Thank-you
May Jesus Christ Bless and forgive you.
Mike
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
06-30-2006, 10:13 PM
Hello Mike,
I see you've begun to resort to familiar evangelical tactics of firing off hundreds of new allegations instead of responding to my refutation of your initial ones. I've allowed you a fair bit of leniency in sticking to the topic but you've completely abused the priveligae bringing up whatever attacks you can think of, from the marriage to Aisha rd to allegations concerning Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf. Why can't you stick to the topic? Are you afraid that you've lost your arguments so that you have to resort to copy-pasting more and more NEW allegations?
Originally Posted by mikeengland
you totally ignored This Refutal.

And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.
That's not a refutal, you simply copied a verse of the Bible, which I do not accept as an authority. I have exposed this fallacy in my last post.

Perfect example of petitio principii.

Your argument is:
1. Islam says God cannot become a man.
2. The Bible says He did.
3. Therefore Islam is wrong.

I'm afraid that is not valid reasoning, Mike. I don't accept the Bible as the truth.

Now, you've attempted to misquote the Qur'an (or should I say you've copied CARM's attempt to misquote the Qur'an) in order to draw support for the Bible. But this approach fails as well, as I shall demonstrate, inshaa'Allah.

Well Mr Ansar Al-'Adl

Sura 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah),
the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord."
Here is the verse in arabic. It tells the people of the Book that they are upon nothing until they establish (tuq&#238;m&#251;) the Tawr&#226;t, the Inj&#238;l and all the revelation that has come to them from their Lord, namely the Qur'&#226;n. This entails that they believe and accept the revelations of all Prophets, just as Muslims do. Nowhere does this verse make reference to the Old Testament, the four gospels, the epistles of Paul, or anything from the present-day Bible. The verse refers to the ORIGINAL REVELATION. Establishing the original revelations of their Prophets meant to believe and accept Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Since the previous revelations were corrupted, God sent the Qur'an as a criterion to judge the truth from the falsehood. Whatever is in accordance with the Qur'an is truth, and whatever is not is falsehood.
Sura 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians,
saying, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say,
"We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you;
Our Allah and your Allah is one;
A blatant omission - the full verse says:
29:46 And do not debate with the people of the earlier scriptures (Jews and Christians) except in the best manner, unless it be with the those bent on oppression and injustice. And say 'We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: our God and your God is one , and it is unto Him that We submit ourselves.
This verse refers to the original revelation given to Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus peace be upon them both. We believe in the message originally revealed to them, not the corrupted and altered remains in the form of the modern Bible.
The Christian Bible predates Muhammad and Islam by 500 years. The Jewish Torah predates Muhammad and Islam by 1,000 - 3,000 years.
Unfortunately, the Bible we have today is not what has survived from the time of the Prophets. The corruption of the Bible is noted by the Prophets of the Bible itself:
Jeremiah 8:8 How can you say, 'We are wise,*And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes*Has made it into a LIE.
So we can see who is Lyeing here.
Indeed. According to Jeremiah, it is the scribes of the Bible who are the liars and have corrupted and altered the Bible into the present day form, deprived of most of the prophetic teachings it once had.

Islam claims that Allah is the same God who was revealed in the Bible. . . .
No it does not at all. Islam says that Allah is the one Lord of the Universe who sent revelation to all the Prophets, including Moses and Jesus, which have subsequently been corrupted, hence the need to send the Qur'an as a criterion between truth and falsehood.
Don't forget that Muhammad claimed in Suras 2:87, 29:46, 32:23, 5:44, 6:154, 6:155
that Allah confirmed the Torah (Taurat) and Christian Gospel (Injeel)
(Sura 2:87, 5:46, 5:68, 29:46 and 43:63).
Nowhere in the Qur'an will you find mention of the Old Testament or New Testament. The Tawr&#226;t does not exist anymore, nor does the Inj&#238;l. The Qur'an confirms the Tawr&#226;t and the Inj&#238;l, the original revelations to Prophets Moses and Jesus, not the present-day Bible which has only a few scarce remnants of thsoe teachings.
- Sura 6:74, says Abraham father's name was Azar.
The Bible says it was Terah (Genesis 11:27).
How can Muhammad claim he verified the Torah which came first as true, yet differ with the facts in the Torah?
The Qur'an does not verify the present day Torah. It verifies the original Tawr&#226;t given to Prophet Moses pbuh.

Muhammad said for Muslims to read the Bible for "Guidance and Light.
Blatant lie. Nowhere did Prophet Muhammad pbuh endorse reading the Bible.
[quote[Of Course we have seen muhammad approves of Killing and having the Killer Tell LIES.[/quote]
It is a pity that you have to resort to completely changing the topic to evade your opponents arguments; not only have you completely ignored my post on the miracles, the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, but now you resort to brining up completely new allegations that have nothing to do with the original discussion. Why ask for a debate if you can't take the heat?

As for Prophet Muhammad pbuh approving of killing, this is blatant slander. Read his teachings for yourself:

The Prophet said: 'I am the Prophet of mercy and I am the Prophet of repentance. (Sham&#226;'il At-Tirmidh&#238;, Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet was asked about the MAJOR SINS, and he mentioned: 'To worship other than Allah, to disobey your parents, TO COMMIT MURDER and to give false testimony'. (Sah&#238;h Bukh&#226;r&#238;)

The Prophet said: 'Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character (Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta M&#226;lik)

The Prophet said: 'There is nothing which is heavier upon the balance than the good character.' (Musnad Ahmad)

The Prophet said: 'Righteousness is good character, and sin is what makes you uncomfortable inside and you would not like other people to find out about.' (Sah&#238;h Muslim)

The Prophet said: 'The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely, or speak rudely.' (Sunan At-Tirmidh&#238;)

The Prophet said: 'Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good.' (Sah&#238;h Muslim)

The Prophet said: 'Indeed Allah is gentle and loves gentleness, and gives due to gentleness that which He does not give to harshness.' (Sunan Ibn M&#226;jah, Sah&#238;h Ibn Hibb&#226;n)

The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidh&#238;)

The Prophet said: 'Show mercy to those on earth so that He who is in heaven will have mercy on you.' (Sunan At-Tirmidh&#238;)

The Prophet said: 'By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer!' He was asked, 'Who, O Messenger of Allah?' He replied, 'Anyone whose neighbor does not feel safe from his harm.' (Musnad Ahmad)

As for lying, the Qur'an condemns lying saying that liars will have blackened faces on the day of judgement (39:60), God guides not the liars (40:28), liars have a painful doom awaiting them (2:10), God commands Muslims to speak the truth (9:119), none is more oppressive than the one who invents a lie against God (29:28), we are accountable for every promise (17:34), Muslims are to shun lying (22:30).

And the Prophet condemned lying as well in so many narrations:

Make truth mandatory on yourself because truth shows the way to righteousness and righteousness takes you to paradise, and a person becomes committed to the search for the truth until he is listed amongst the truthful by Allah. Stay away from lies because they lead to sin and depravation, which is the way to hell, and the liar is swept by the current of lies, seeks them and is ultimately listed amongst the liars by Allah.(Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawud, Sunan Tirmidhi)

When a person lies, the angels shun him for miles because of the stench of that lie (Sunan Tirmidhi)

A person once asked the prophet (peace be upon him): “Is it possible for someone to have faith yet be a coward?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Yes”. He then asked: “Is it possible for him to be stingy?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Yes”. He then asked: “Is it possible for him to be a liar?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “No.” (Sunan Al-Bayhaqi)

The Islamic evidence which condemns lying is overwhelming

"Narrated Jabir Abdullah: "Allah's messenger said "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His apostle?
"Thereupon Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's messenger! Would you like that I kill him?"
The prophet said, "Yes". Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Ka'b).
The prophet said, "You may say it."… (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Number 369)
Notice that 'false' is in brackets, and 'to decieve Ka'b' is also in brackets. Neither of those were in the actual hadith. In fact, this slander has been refuted in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...sinations.html
Musa b. Uqba, Ibn Ishaq and others relate that Ka'b bin Al-Ahraf incited the enemy troops to attacks the Muslims. As mentioned by Musa b. Uqba and others, the incitment consisted of his travel to Makkah after Badr and persistently confronting the Makkans, encouraging them to take revenge for their defeat at badr and specifically instigating an attack on the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. In short, he was calling for terrorist attacks, to use the modern language.

Musa b. Uqba, Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Kathir mention, "He had not left Makkah before he had united them to fight the Messenger of God".

One other point - when Ka'b was leaving his house that night after Abu Naila called out to him, notice what his wife said to him:
But you're a man engaged in combat. Warriors don't go down at such as this!

Clearly, his military efforts against the Prophet Muhammad pbuh were known.

I would Like to ask Mr Ansar Al-'Adl For proof of the existence of Muhammad if you please?..........
As soon as you respond to my arguments, rather than just raising new claims. Here, you forgot to respond to this:

CURING OF THE SICK

During the campaign of Uhud, Qattada Bin An-Nu'man (May Allah be pleased with him) was injured in the eye. The eyeball had come out of the socket and was hanging on his cheek. The Prophet (peace be upon him) put it back with his hand and after this incident, that eye was better than the uninjured eye.

Al-Bukhaari related that Yazid bin Abi Ubaid (may Allah be pleased with him) said, &#180;I saw a scar of a cut on the leg of Abu Muslim. When I asked him, “O Abu Muslim! What is this scar?” He said, “ I was injured in the battle of Khyber. People said, “Himama is injured.” I came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and he blew on the injury three times and after that I did not feel any pain till today.”

Aisha bint Saad narrated on her father’s authority that the Prophet (peace be upon him) visited Saad Bin abi Waqqas (May Allah be pleased with him) while the latter was sick. The Prophet (peace be upon him) put his hand on Saad’s head and wiped his face and stomach, and said “O Allah cure Saad and help him to complete his migration.” Saad said, "From that time till now, I can still feel the cold touch of the hands of the Prophet (peace be upon him)."

Prior to the battle of Khaiber the Prophet (peace be upon him) said “Tomorrow I will give the flag to a man who loves Allah and his Prophet (peace be upon him), and Allah and His Prophet (peace be upon him) love him.” The people spent the night, each one of them eager to be given the banner. In the morning the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked, “where is Ali bin Abi Talib (May Allah be pleased with him)?” They said he is suffering from an eye ailment (Ramadh). The Prophet (peace be upon him) spit in Ali’s eyes and he was cured.

Narrated Jabir (May Allah be pleased with him) Allah’s messenger came to visit while I was sick and unconscious. He performed ablution and sprinkled the remaining water on me and I became conscious…… Al-Bukhaari

INCREASING (BY BLESSING) THE FOOD

These are [similar to the] miracles given to Prophets Jesus (the table) and Moses (increasing the water) peace be upon hem both):

THE STORY OF UMM MA'BAD

The Prophet (peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) on their way to Al-Madina, continued their journey until they reached the solitary tent belonging to a woman called Umm Ma’bad Al-Khuzaiyah. She was a gracious lady who sat at her tent-door with a mat spread out for any chance traveler that might pass by that way. Fatigued and thirsty, the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companion wanted to refresh themselves with food and some milk. The lady told them that the flock was out in the pasture and the goat standing nearby was almost dry. It was a rainless year. The Prophet (peace be upon him) with her permission touched its udders, reciting over them the Name of Allah and to their great joy, there flowed plenty of milk out of them. The Prophet (peace be upon him) first offered the milk to the lady of the house, and he shared what was left with other members of the party. Before he left, he milked the goat again, filled the container and gave it to Umm Ma’bad.

After some time her husband arrived with thin goats hardly having any milk in their udders and he was astonished to see milk in the house. His wife told him that a blessed man passed by the way and gave details about his physical appearance and the manner of talking. Abu Ma’bad immediately realized that the man was the one Quraysh were searching for and asked her to give full description of him and she gave a wonderful account of his physiqueand manners. Abu Ma’bad, after listening to his wife’s account expressed a sincere wish to accompany the Prophet (peace be upon him) whenever possible.

He reiterated his admiration in verses of a poet that echoed all over Makkah to such an extent that the people therein thought it was a jinn inculcating words in their ears. Asma (may Allah be pleased with her), daughter of Abu Bakr, on hearing those lines, got to know that the two companions were heading for Madinah. The short poem opened with thanking Allah for giving them (the Ma’bads) the chance to host the Prophet (peace be upon him) for a while. It then gave an account of the bliss that would settle in the heart of the Prophet’s companion whosoever he was. It closed with an invitation to the whole mankind to come and see by themselves Umm Ma’bad, her goat and the container of milk that would all testify to the truthfulness of the Prophet (peace be upon him) .

INCREASING WATER IN TABUK

When they drew near Tabuk, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “If Allah wills, tomorrow you will arrive at the Tabuk spring. You will not get there before daytime. So whoever reaches it should not touch its water; but wait till I come.” Mu’adh said: “When we reached the spring therewas some water as usual. We found that two men had already arrived before us. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) asked them:‘Have you touched its water?’ They replied, ‘Yes’. He said what Allah inspired him to say, then he scooped up a little water of that spring. It was a thin stream where water gathered. He washed his face and hand with it and poured it back into it; consequently plenty of water spouted out of it so people watered. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said ‘Mu’adh! If you were to live long life you will see in here fields full of vegetation.’ Nowadays Tabuk’s fields are full of vegetation as the Prophet (peace be upon him) foretold.

PROPHET MUHAMMED (peace be upon him) TELLING OF THE UNSEEN

His telling of some incidents in the future does not mean he knows everything that is to take place in the future. Allah the almighty gave him this advantage in knowledge in certain situations. His people disbelieved in him, yet when he tells them that something will happen in the future, they believed him without a doubt. This does not mean that the Prophet (peace be upon him) could always tell the future or is a fortune-teller.

“Say (O Muhammed) I possess no power of benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I have the knowledge of the Ghaib (unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner, and bring glad tidings unto people who believe.”
[Qur'aan 7:188]

UKAIDIR IN DUMAT AL-JANDAL

The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) dispatched Khalid bin Al-Waleed at the head of four hundred and fifty horsemen to ‘Ukaidir in Dumat Al-Jandal and said to him: “You will see him hunting oryxes.” So when Khalid drew near his castle and was as far as an eye-sight range, he saw the oryxes coming out rubbing their horns against the castle gate. As it was moon light night, Khalid could see Ukaidir come out to hunt them. He captured him, though he was surrounded by his men and brought him back to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) who spared his life and made peace with him for the payment of two thousand camels, eight hundred heads of cattle, four hundred armours and four hundred lances. Prophet (peace be upon him) instructed him to recognize the duty of paying tribute and made him responsible for collecting it from Dumat, Tabuk, Ailah and Taima’.

AN ATTEMPT ON THE LIFE OF THE PROPHET (peace be upon him)

The impact of defeat at Badr was so great that the Makkans began to burn with indignation and resentment over their terrible losses. Two of the polytheists volunteered to quench their thirst and eliminate the source of that humiliation i.e. the Prophet (peace be upon him). ‘Umair bin Wahab Al-Jumahi, a terrible polytheist and an archenemy Safwan bin Omaiyah sat together lamenting their loss and remembering their dead and captives. ‘Umair expressed a fervent desire to kill the Prophet (peace be upon him) and release his captured son in Madinah, if it was not for the yoke of debts he was under and the large family he had to support. Safwan, also had his good reasons to see the Prophet (peace be upon him) killed, so he offered to settle ‘Umair’s debts and support his family if he went on with his plan. ‘Umair agreed and asked Safwan to keep the scheme a secret.

He left for Madinah, with a sword to which he applied some kind of lethal poison. ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) saw him at the door of the Mosque and understood that he had come with evil intentions. He immediately went into the Mosque and informed the Prophet (peace be upon him). He was allowed to enter, looped by the sling of his sword and greeted saying “good morning”, to which the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied that Allah had been Gracious and taught them the greeting of the dwellers of Paradise: “peace be upon you!” To a question raised by the Prophet (peace be upon him) about his object, ‘Umair said that he had come to see that his captured son was well treated. As for the sword, which the Prophet (peace be upon him) inquired him, he cursed it and said that it gained them nothing.

On exhorting him to tell his real goal, he remained adamant and did not divulge the secret meeting with Safwan. Here the Prophet (peace be upon him) got impatient and himself revealed to ‘Umair the latter’s secret mission. ‘Umair was taken by surprise, then an incredible astonishment seized him and he immediately declared his faith in Islam (the Shahaadah). He then began to praise Allah’s compassion for having been guided to the ‘Straight Path’. The Prophet (peace be upon him) was pleased, asked his companions to teach ‘Umair the principles of Islam, recite to him the Noble Qur’an and release his son from captivity. Safwan, meanwhile was still entertaining false illusions as to the approaching redemption of honor and burying the memory of Badr. He was impatiently waiting for ‘Umair’s news but to his great surprise he was told that the man had embraced Islam and become a devoted believer. ‘Umair later came back to Makkah where he started to call people unto Islam and actually managed to convert a lot of Makkans to Islam.

THE STORY OF THE TRENCH

The Muslims were digging the trench during the Battle of the Trench and some supernatural Prophetic signs were shown at that time. Jabir bin ‘Abdullah, seeing the Prophet (peace be upon him) starving, slaughtered a sheep, cooked some barley and requested the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Companions to accept his invitation. But the Prophet (peace be upon him) gathered all the thousand people engaged in digging the trench and they started to eat until they were all completely full and yet the shoulder of mutton and dough that was being baked remained and the food was undiminished.

A woman brought a handful of dates and passed by the Prophet (peace be upon him) who took them. He threw them over his cloak and invited his followers to eat. The dates began to increase in number until they dropped over the brim of his robe.

Another miracle was when a rock stood out as an immune obstacle in the ditch. The Prophet (peace be upon him) took the spade and struck, and the rock immediately turned into a loose sand dune. In another version, Al-Bara’ said: On Al-Khandaq (the trench) Day there stood out a rock too hard for our spades to break up. We therefore went to see the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) for advice. He took the spade, and struck the rock saying “In the Name of Allah, Allah is Great, the keys of Ash-Sham (Geographical Syria) are mine. I swear by Allah, I can see its palaces at the moment;” on the second strike he said: “Allah is Great, Persia is mine, I swear by Allah, I can now see the white palace of Madain.” For the third time he struck the rock saying, “Allah is Great, I have been given the keys of Yemen, I swear by Allah, I can see the gates of San’a while I am in my place.” The rock turned into very small pieces. Ishaq narrated the same version.

The northern part of Madinah was the most vulnerable, all the other sides being surrounded by mountains and palm tree orchards. The Prophet (peace be upon him) as a skillful military expert, understood that the Confederates would march in that direction. So the trench was ordered to be dug on that side. The Muslims went on digging the trench for several days. They used to work during the day and go back home in the evening until it was completed in time and assumed its full dimensions militarily. The huge army of the idolaters which numbered as many as ten thousand fighters, arrived and settled in the vicinity of Madinah in places called Al-Asyal and Uhud.

THE STORY OF AL-HIRAH

Al-Bukhaari narrates that ‘Adi said: “While we were with the Prophet (peace be upon him) a man came and complained to him about poverty. Another man came and complained about highway robbery. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) then said: “O Adi! Have you ever been to Al-Hirah? If you were destined to live a long life, you would be able to see a woman travel from Hirah riding a camel till it circumambulates the Ka'bah fearing none but Allah; and if you were to live long enough you would open the treasures of Kisra. And if you were to live long you would be able to see a man offering a handful of gold or silver to others but no one would accept it.”

At the end of this Hadith ‘Adi later on says: ”I have seen a woman riding camel travel from Al-Hirah till it circumambulates the Ka'bah fearing none but Allah. I have also been one of those who opened the treasures of Kisra bin Hurmuz. If you were to live long life you would witness what the Prophet (peace be upon him), Abul Qasim, had already said about ‘offering a handful of….. ’ i.e. the Prophet’s prophecies did really come true.”

THE STORY OF UTAIBAH

‘Utaibah bin Abi Lahab once came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and most defiantly and brazenly shouted at him, “I disbelieve in, “By the star when it goes down” [53:1] and in “Then he (Gabriel) approached and came closer.” [53:8] In other words: “I do not believe in any of the verses from the Qur’an.” He then became violent and started to deal highhandedly with Muhammed (peace be upon him), tore his shirt and spat at the face but it missed the face of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Thereupon, the Prophet (peace be upon him) invoked Allah’s wrath on ‘Utaibah and supplicated: “O Allah! Set one of Your dogs on him.” Allah responded positively to Muhammed’s supplication, and it happened in the following manner:

Once ‘Utaibah with some of his companions from Quraysh set out for Syria and took accommodation in Az-Zarqa’. There a lion approached the group to the great fear of ‘Utaibah, who at once recalled Muhammed’s words in supplication, and said: “Woe to my brother! This lion will surely devour me just as Muhammed supplicated. He has really killed me in Syria while he is in Makkah." The lion rushed like lightning, snatched ‘Utaibah from amongst his people and crushed his head.

THE STORY OF UBAI BIN KHALAF

Ibn Ishaq related: “One day when the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was going up the hillock, he was followed by Ubai Bin Khalaf who was saying: ‘Where is Muhammed? Either I kill him or I will be killed.’ The Companions of Muhammed (peace be upon him) said: ‘O Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), do you mind if one of us combats with him?’ But the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: ‘Leave him!’ So when he drew nearer, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) took the spear from Al-Harith bin As-Simma. He shivered violently in such a way that all of them scattered in all directions. The Prophet (peace be upon him) faced him (i.e Ubai) and observed his throat through a gap between the wide opening of the armour and the part of his neck enclosed by. He speared him in that spot. The effect of the stroke was so strong that it made him roll off his horse over and over. When he returned to Quraysh, they found that he had only had a small scratch in his neck. So when blood became clotted he said: ‘By Allah, Muhammed has killed me.’ Others heard him and replied, ‘By Allah you are afraid to death. By Allah, you are possessed by a devil.’ But he replied, “He already told me when we were in Makkah, ‘I will kill you.’ By Allah, had he spat on me, he would have killed me.” Eventually, the enemy of Allah breathed his last at a place called Sari, while they were taking him back to Makkah.

THE STORY OF BILAL'S CALL ON THE KA'BAH

After the conquest of Makkah when time for prayer approached, Bilal ascended the Ka'bah and called for prayer. Abu Sufyan bin Harb, ‘Itab bin Usaid and Al-Harith bin Hisham were sitting in the yard. ‘Itab bin Usaid commented on the new situation (Bilal ascending the Ka'bah and calling for prayer) saying that Allah honored Usaid (his father) having not heard such words. The Prophet (peace be upon him) approached and assisted by Divine Revelation told them that he learned about what they had spoken of. Al-Harith and ‘Itab, taken by surprise, immediately professed Islam and bore witness that Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), adding that “We swear by Allah that none had been with us to inform you.”

There are no recorded miracles of Muhammad in the Quran
False. The splitting of the moon is mentioned in Surat Al-Qamar, and Surat Ar-Rum contains the prophecized victory of the Romans and the Muslims.
but when Muhammad's followers saw Muhammad's inferiority to Jesus
Prophet Muhammad pbuh is not inferior to Prophet Jesus. Both are Prophets of God, and Muhammad saws is the final and greatest messenger of God. It is sad to see that you are incapable of debating intellectually so you resort to petty insults.
they started making some up in the Hadith
The hadith is Mutawatir, which demonstrates it cannot be made up.
Muhammad cut the moon in half with a sword
No, there is no mention of a sword.
a palm tree cried like a baby because Muhammad wouldn't preach under it, Palm Trees do not cry to be preached under, Lets get realistic here.
This is plain laughable! You ask for a miraculous occurance, and then dismiss it as unrealistic!! I suppose Jesus raising people from the dead and walking on water was realistic?!
Muhammad made water flow out of his fingernails so that people could drink--the Hadith contradicts itself on how many supposedly people drank it.
Show me the contradiction - I challenge you.
These made up "miracles" go on and on.
Your arguments have really deteriorated. You initially come here claiming to be looking for a sincere debate with "love and friendship" but when your arguments are devastated and you are intellectually humiliated, you resort to petty insults like the above. Calling the miracles made up will not make them so. Go find some hard evidence to substantiate your claims.
Also, the Hadith makes it clear that Muhammad was a sinner--NOT sinless as some Muslims now claim:
"Muhammad replied..."O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." Volume 1, number 711. See also (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)
Why are you telling me to refer to verses I explained in my last post?!

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
This is living proof you are uninterested in learning - I responded to your same claim in november last year!!

Read this post:
http://www.islamicboard.com/118389-post3.html
I refuted all your allegations there which you had copy-pasted, but I never got a response from you.

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Originally Posted by MikeEngland
Muhammad acknowledged in the Qur’an that he is a sinner and asks forgiveness for his sins both past, present and future!

Sura 48:2 That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfill His favor to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way
A couple of points to note here:
1. The belief of the infallibility of the Prophets means that they cannot commit sin but are still susceptible to minor mistakes, like all human beings. See here for more info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/75709-post2.html
2. Maghfirah (forgiveness) implies protection in Islam, as it is derived from the same root as a shielding helmet.
3. Tauba (repentence) in Islam is not just for the sinful, it is for everyone, just like one can bathe when they are dirty, but people bathe regularly, dirty or not dirty.
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
The Prophet Muhammad pbuh used to seek Allah's maghfirah (forgiveness) from all shortcomings, and also remembers that the shortcomings of the Prophets are different from ours. For them, not doing the best possible righteous and noble sacrifice would be a shortcoming. For us ihsaan (the highest moral standard of conduct) is a goal, for them it was an obligation.
I hope you will read my answer this time.
Clearly, my hopes were misplaced!
- Sura 17:90-94 of the Qur'an tells about how,
when Muhammad was challenged to perform a miracle and prove he was from the true god,
he could not perform any and here he actually says himself: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger? ".

- In Sura 13:7, we find that Muhammad did not perform any miracles.
The people are saying that even one sign would be enough to convince them,
just one miracle performed by Muhammad - and yet he still does none....

All along, the unbelievers asked Muhammad to perform a miracle so that they could believe.
All they got in response was,

- Sura 17:90
They say: "We will by no means believe in you until you cause a fountain to gush forth from the earth for us.,"

And Muhammad would reply:

- Sura 17:93
Say: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger?"
So your old arguments have failed you, so now you resort to copy-pasting a new set of allegations. This has also already been debunked on this forum by br. kadafi:
The ayaat that you cited did not deny the Prophetic miracles, rather it enforces the point that miracles soley come from Allaah (Exalted is He) and that the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not create these [signs/miracles]. That's why Allaah (Exalted is He) commanded His Messenger to say: "Am I anything but a man, sent as a Messenger?" to refute the claim of the Quraysh that in order for them to believe the Prophet; he should have the ability to perform miracles whenever he desires. It is also reapplied in the statement where the Prophet says:
The signs are only with Allaah, and I am only a plain warner.
meaning, the signs come only from Allaah and as I am only a plain warner.

There is a passage in the Bible where Eesa ibn Maryam (Peace be upon him) refused to give a miracle to those who requested:
The Pharisees came forward and began to argue with him, seeking from him a sign from heaven to test him.

He sighed from the depth of his spirit and said, "Why does this generation seek a sign? Amen, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation."

Then he left them, got into the boat again, and went off to the other shore.
Mark(11-13)
This did not stop him from performing miracles but it demonstrated the Prophet's avowment that all Prophets are humans, just like you and they or the nation[s] that they were sent to cannot demand a miracle according to their desires.

Allaah (Exalted is He) says:
We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allaah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed).
(Soorah Al-Rad:38)
Additionally, some of the 'miracles' requested by the Mushrikeen had no connection in establishing the truthfulness of a claim to prophethood while the other requests where inconceivable demands.

To make it clear, they demanded six things in the ayat; three of them were inconceivable whilst the other three had no connection with establishing the truthfulness of a claim to prophethood.

The first inconceivable claim from the Mushrikeen was causing the heaven totfall upon them piecemeal. This would entail the destruction of the Earth and the death of its inhabitants. Obviously, such thing was already prophesised that it would occur at the end of time. Further, if this 'miracle' was granted, it would be incompatible with the survival of mankind and the guidance toward their perfection that wisdom has determined.

The second inconceivable claim from the Mushrikeen is to see Allaah and this is impossible as Allaah cannot be seen with this wordly eyes. It also attributes limitation to Allaah (Exalted is He).

The third inconceivable claim from the Mushrikeen is to bring down a letter from Allaah. Here they attribute human characteristics to Allaah and far exalted is he from what they ascribe to him.

The other three things had no bearing on the truthfulness of the claim to be a prophet. This is because the Mushrikeen demanded that he should cause a spring to gush forth from the earth, or that they own a garden of date-palms and grapes and abundant rivers, or own a house of gold. Obviously these things have no connection with the claim to be a prophet. How many people have them, yet are not prophets. Indeed, some people have all three of them, yet they are not necessarily believers, let alone prophets. So thus since these things have no bearing on the claim of prophethood, and do not prove its veracity, producing them in the context of proving this veracity would be a futile act that any prophet would not perform.

These are simply reasons behind the rejecting of some Signs that where demanded by the Mushrikeen. The main reason is that all miracles come from Allaah (Exalted is He).

Muhammad did no miracles.
He did not heal the sick, raise the dead, raise himself from the dead, cure the Blind, walk on water
cast out demons, or rule the wind and the waves. He had no more power than any normal man.
So Eternal Life and promises of paradise is a total joke Mr Ansar Al-'Adl.
Jesus did no miracles.
He did not heal the sick, raise the dead, raise himself from the dead, cure the Blind, walk on water
cast out demons, or rule the wind and the waves. He had no more power than any normal man.
So Eternal Life and promises of paradise is a total joke Mr Mikeengland.


I can answer baseless assertions with baseless assertions. They won't get the discussion anywhere. If you respond by saying, "no! he did perform miracles, the New Testament says so!" then I have already quoted the Islamic scriptures, Qur'an and Ahadith which state that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh performed miracles. You reject the scriptures I quote as 'lies' but then expect me to accept what you quote as 'truth'. Your perverse sense of logic demonstrates that you have no desire to learn nor debate - you have already made up your mind that Islam is false and Christianity is true. I have refuted your lies about the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and sins three times but you have ignored my response each time, and instead brought up new sets of allegations. You have only exposed your own insecurity and intellectual fraility in doing so.
So Again I ask you Mr Ansar Al-'Adl For proof of the existence of Muhammad?
Check out these 7th century arabic inscriptions:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/His...nscriptions/#2
My Direct Questions you have sidestepped on muhammads propethood. Instead your Defence is to attack the Bible.
I have sidestepped nothing. I have answered every word in every single one of your posts and have allowed you too much leniency in changing the topic to include everything from allegations that the Qur'an endorses the present day Bible to claims that the Prophet sinned. Launching dozens of new allegations while evading my posts only exposes your own weakness on the subject. Why not discuss each allegation one at a time so that we can gain an in-depth understanding of it? No, that would be awful for a Christian's arguments which are constructed upon misquotations and distortions.

I'm still awaiting your response to this:
This is the contradiction:
Jesus says: "and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." (Matthew 5:22)
And yet Jesus also says: You fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (Matthew 23:17)
Can you see the contradiction between these verses? The first states that if someone says "you fool" to someone else, then they are guilty of hell, and in the second verse Jesus does it himself!!
Answer that.

Your allegations about the Prophet's marriage to Aisha rd were refuted here:
http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Sabeel/sabeel6.htm
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttal...age_of_Aishah/

__________________________________________________ _____

Since you failed to stick to one topic, and decided to bring up new allegations, we will discuss each one individually in seperate threads to allow for a complete discussion.

The threads for each of the topics mentioned are as follows...

If you want to discuss sins and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...sins-lies.html

If you want to discuss whether or not the Qur'an endorses the present day Bible you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...criptures.html

If you want to discuss allegations about killings or assassinations from the time of the Prophet you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...sinations.html

If you want to discuss what the Qur'an says about the Prophet Muhammad pbuh performing miracles you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...n-ahadith.html

Any further questions or comments can be posted in one of these threads so we can examine each one of your allegations in detail, rather than you simply copy-pasting as many distortions as you can in the hopes that it will consume more time and effort to respond to all of them in detail.

Regards
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