I see you've begun to resort to familiar evangelical tactics of firing off hundreds of new allegations instead of responding to my refutation of your initial ones. I've allowed you a fair bit of leniency in sticking to the topic but you've completely abused the priveligae bringing up whatever attacks you can think of, from the marriage to Aisha rd to allegations concerning Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf. Why can't you stick to the topic? Are you afraid that you've lost your arguments so that you have to resort to copy-pasting more and more NEW
Originally Posted by mikeengland
That's not a refutal, you simply copied a verse of the Bible, which I do not accept as an authority. I have exposed this fallacy in my last post.
Perfect example of petitio principii.
Your argument is:
1. Islam says God cannot become a man.
2. The Bible says He did.
3. Therefore Islam is wrong.
I'm afraid that is not valid reasoning, Mike. I don't accept the Bible as the truth.
Now, you've attempted to misquote the Qur'an (or should I say you've copied CARM's attempt to misquote the Qur'an) in order to draw support for the Bible. But this approach fails as well, as I shall demonstrate, inshaa'Allah.
Well Mr Ansar Al-'Adl
Sura 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah),
the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord."
is the verse in arabic. It tells the people of the Book that they are upon nothing until they establish (tuqîmû
) the Tawrât, the Injîl and all the revelation that has come to them from their Lord, namely the Qur'ân. This entails that they believe and accept the revelations of all Prophets, just as Muslims do. Nowhere does this verse make reference to the Old Testament, the four gospels, the epistles of Paul, or anything from the present-day Bible. The verse refers to the ORIGINAL REVELATION
. Establishing the original revelations of their Prophets meant to believe and accept Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Since the previous revelations were corrupted, God sent the Qur'an as a criterion to judge the truth from the falsehood. Whatever is in accordance with the Qur'an is truth, and whatever is not is falsehood.
Sura 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians,
saying, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say,
"We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you;
Our Allah and your Allah is one;
A blatant omission - the full verse says:
29:46 And do not debate with the people of the earlier scriptures (Jews and Christians) except in the best manner, unless it be with the those bent on oppression and injustice. And say 'We believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: our God and your God is one , and it is unto Him that We submit ourselves.
This verse refers to the original revelation given to Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus peace be upon them both. We believe in the message originally revealed to them, not the corrupted and altered remains in the form of the modern Bible.
The Christian Bible predates Muhammad and Islam by 500 years. The Jewish Torah predates Muhammad and Islam by 1,000 - 3,000 years.
Unfortunately, the Bible we have today is not what has survived from the time of the Prophets. The corruption of the Bible is noted by the Prophets of the Bible itself:
Jeremiah 8:8 How can you say, 'We are wise,*And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes*Has made it into a LIE.
So we can see who is Lyeing here.
Indeed. According to Jeremiah, it is the scribes of the Bible who are the liars and have corrupted and altered the Bible into the present day form, deprived of most of the prophetic teachings it once had.
Islam claims that Allah is the same God who was revealed in the Bible. . . .
No it does not at all. Islam says that Allah is the one Lord of the Universe who sent revelation to all the Prophets, including Moses and Jesus, which have subsequently been corrupted, hence the need to send the Qur'an as a criterion between truth and falsehood.
Don't forget that Muhammad claimed in Suras 2:87, 29:46, 32:23, 5:44, 6:154, 6:155
that Allah confirmed the Torah (Taurat) and Christian Gospel (Injeel)
(Sura 2:87, 5:46, 5:68, 29:46 and 43:63).
Nowhere in the Qur'an will you find mention of the Old Testament or New Testament. The Tawrât does not exist anymore, nor does the Injîl. The Qur'an confirms the Tawrât and the Injîl, the original revelations to Prophets Moses and Jesus, not the present-day Bible which has only a few scarce remnants of thsoe teachings.
- Sura 6:74, says Abraham father's name was Azar.
The Bible says it was Terah (Genesis 11:27).
How can Muhammad claim he verified the Torah which came first as true, yet differ with the facts in the Torah?
The Qur'an does not verify the present day Torah. It verifies the original Tawrât given to Prophet Moses pbuh.
Muhammad said for Muslims to read the Bible for "Guidance and Light.
Blatant lie. Nowhere did Prophet Muhammad pbuh endorse reading the Bible.
[quote[Of Course we have seen muhammad approves of Killing and having the Killer Tell LIES.[/quote]
It is a pity that you have to resort to completely changing the topic to evade your opponents arguments; not only have you completely ignored my post on the miracles, the prophecies of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, but now you resort to brining up completely new allegations that have nothing to do with the original discussion. Why ask for a debate if you can't take the heat?
As for Prophet Muhammad pbuh approving of killing, this is blatant slander. Read his teachings for yourself:
The Prophet said: 'I am the Prophet of mercy and I am the Prophet of repentance. (Shamâ'il At-Tirmidhî, Musnad Ahmad)
The Prophet was asked about the MAJOR SINS, and he mentioned: 'To worship other than Allah, to disobey your parents, TO COMMIT MURDER and to give false testimony'. (Sahîh Bukhârî)
The Prophet said: 'Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character (Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik)
The Prophet said: 'There is nothing which is heavier upon the balance than the good character.' (Musnad Ahmad)
The Prophet said: 'Righteousness is good character, and sin is what makes you uncomfortable inside and you would not like other people to find out about.' (Sahîh Muslim)
The Prophet said: 'The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely, or speak rudely.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
The Prophet said: 'Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good.' (Sahîh Muslim)
The Prophet said: 'Indeed Allah is gentle and loves gentleness, and gives due to gentleness that which He does not give to harshness.' (Sunan Ibn Mâjah, Sahîh Ibn Hibbân)
The Prophet said: 'Whoever suffers an injury done to him and forgives (the person responsible), Allah will raise his status to a higher degree and remove one of his sins.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
The Prophet said: 'Show mercy to those on earth so that He who is in heaven will have mercy on you.' (Sunan At-Tirmidhî)
The Prophet said: 'By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer!' He was asked, 'Who, O Messenger of Allah?' He replied, 'Anyone whose neighbor does not feel safe from his harm.' (Musnad Ahmad)
As for lying, the Qur'an condemns lying saying that liars will have blackened faces on the day of judgement (39:60), God guides not the liars (40:28), liars have a painful doom awaiting them (2:10), God commands Muslims to speak the truth (9:119), none is more oppressive than the one who invents a lie against God (29:28), we are accountable for every promise (17:34), Muslims are to shun lying (22:30).
And the Prophet condemned lying as well in so many narrations:
Make truth mandatory on yourself because truth shows the way to righteousness and righteousness takes you to paradise, and a person becomes committed to the search for the truth until he is listed amongst the truthful by Allah. Stay away from lies because they lead to sin and depravation, which is the way to hell, and the liar is swept by the current of lies, seeks them and is ultimately listed amongst the liars by Allah.(Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawud, Sunan Tirmidhi)
When a person lies, the angels shun him for miles because of the stench of that lie (Sunan Tirmidhi)
A person once asked the prophet (peace be upon him): “Is it possible for someone to have faith yet be a coward?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Yes”. He then asked: “Is it possible for him to be stingy?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Yes”. He then asked: “Is it possible for him to be a liar?” The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “No.” (Sunan Al-Bayhaqi)
The Islamic evidence which condemns lying is overwhelming
"Narrated Jabir Abdullah: "Allah's messenger said "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His apostle?
"Thereupon Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's messenger! Would you like that I kill him?"
The prophet said, "Yes". Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Ka'b).
The prophet said, "You may say it."… (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Number 369)
Notice that 'false' is in brackets, and 'to decieve Ka'b' is also in brackets. Neither of those were in the actual hadith. In fact, this slander has been refuted in this thread:
Musa b. Uqba, Ibn Ishaq and others relate that Ka'b bin Al-Ahraf incited the enemy troops to attacks the Muslims. As mentioned by Musa b. Uqba and others, the incitment consisted of his travel to Makkah after Badr and persistently confronting the Makkans, encouraging them to take revenge for their defeat at badr and specifically instigating an attack on the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. In short, he was calling for terrorist attacks, to use the modern language.
Musa b. Uqba, Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Kathir mention, "He had not left Makkah before he had united them to fight the Messenger of God".
One other point - when Ka'b was leaving his house that night after Abu Naila called out to him, notice what his wife said to him:
But you're a man engaged in combat. Warriors don't go down at such as this!
Clearly, his military efforts against the Prophet Muhammad pbuh were known.
I would Like to ask Mr Ansar Al-'Adl For proof of the existence of Muhammad if you please?..........
As soon as you respond to my arguments, rather than just raising new claims. Here, you forgot to respond to this:
CURING OF THE SICK
During the campaign of Uhud, Qattada Bin An-Nu'man (May Allah be pleased with him) was injured in the eye. The eyeball had come out of the socket and was hanging on his cheek. The Prophet (peace be upon him) put it back with his hand and after this incident, that eye was better than the uninjured eye.
Al-Bukhaari related that Yazid bin Abi Ubaid (may Allah be pleased with him) said, ´I saw a scar of a cut on the leg of Abu Muslim. When I asked him, “O Abu Muslim! What is this scar?” He said, “ I was injured in the battle of Khyber. People said, “Himama is injured.” I came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and he blew on the injury three times and after that I did not feel any pain till today.”
Aisha bint Saad narrated on her father’s authority that the Prophet (peace be upon him) visited Saad Bin abi Waqqas (May Allah be pleased with him) while the latter was sick. The Prophet (peace be upon him) put his hand on Saad’s head and wiped his face and stomach, and said “O Allah cure Saad and help him to complete his migration.” Saad said, "From that time till now, I can still feel the cold touch of the hands of the Prophet (peace be upon him)."
Prior to the battle of Khaiber the Prophet (peace be upon him) said “Tomorrow I will give the flag to a man who loves Allah and his Prophet (peace be upon him), and Allah and His Prophet (peace be upon him) love him.” The people spent the night, each one of them eager to be given the banner. In the morning the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked, “where is Ali bin Abi Talib (May Allah be pleased with him)?” They said he is suffering from an eye ailment (Ramadh). The Prophet (peace be upon him) spit in Ali’s eyes and he was cured.
Narrated Jabir (May Allah be pleased with him) Allah’s messenger came to visit while I was sick and unconscious. He performed ablution and sprinkled the remaining water on me and I became conscious…… Al-Bukhaari
INCREASING (BY BLESSING) THE FOOD
These are [similar to the] miracles given to Prophets Jesus (the table) and Moses (increasing the water) peace be upon hem both):
THE STORY OF UMM MA'BAD
The Prophet (peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) on their way to Al-Madina, continued their journey until they reached the solitary tent belonging to a woman called Umm Ma’bad Al-Khuzaiyah. She was a gracious lady who sat at her tent-door with a mat spread out for any chance traveler that might pass by that way. Fatigued and thirsty, the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companion wanted to refresh themselves with food and some milk. The lady told them that the flock was out in the pasture and the goat standing nearby was almost dry. It was a rainless year. The Prophet (peace be upon him) with her permission touched its udders, reciting over them the Name of Allah and to their great joy, there flowed plenty of milk out of them. The Prophet (peace be upon him) first offered the milk to the lady of the house, and he shared what was left with other members of the party. Before he left, he milked the goat again, filled the container and gave it to Umm Ma’bad.
After some time her husband arrived with thin goats hardly having any milk in their udders and he was astonished to see milk in the house. His wife told him that a blessed man passed by the way and gave details about his physical appearance and the manner of talking. Abu Ma’bad immediately realized that the man was the one Quraysh were searching for and asked her to give full description of him and she gave a wonderful account of his physiqueand manners. Abu Ma’bad, after listening to his wife’s account expressed a sincere wish to accompany the Prophet (peace be upon him) whenever possible.
He reiterated his admiration in verses of a poet that echoed all over Makkah to such an extent that the people therein thought it was a jinn inculcating words in their ears. Asma (may Allah be pleased with her), daughter of Abu Bakr, on hearing those lines, got to know that the two companions were heading for Madinah. The short poem opened with thanking Allah for giving them (the Ma’bads) the chance to host the Prophet (peace be upon him) for a while. It then gave an account of the bliss that would settle in the heart of the Prophet’s companion whosoever he was. It closed with an invitation to the whole mankind to come and see by themselves Umm Ma’bad, her goat and the container of milk that would all testify to the truthfulness of the Prophet (peace be upon him) .
INCREASING WATER IN TABUK
When they drew near Tabuk, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “If Allah wills, tomorrow you will arrive at the Tabuk spring. You will not get there before daytime. So whoever reaches it should not touch its water; but wait till I come.” Mu’adh said: “When we reached the spring therewas some water as usual. We found that two men had already arrived before us. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) asked them:‘Have you touched its water?’ They replied, ‘Yes’. He said what Allah inspired him to say, then he scooped up a little water of that spring. It was a thin stream where water gathered. He washed his face and hand with it and poured it back into it; consequently plenty of water spouted out of it so people watered. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said ‘Mu’adh! If you were to live long life you will see in here fields full of vegetation.’ Nowadays Tabuk’s fields are full of vegetation as the Prophet (peace be upon him) foretold.
PROPHET MUHAMMED (peace be upon him) TELLING OF THE UNSEEN
His telling of some incidents in the future does not mean he knows everything that is to take place in the future. Allah the almighty gave him this advantage in knowledge in certain situations. His people disbelieved in him, yet when he tells them that something will happen in the future, they believed him without a doubt. This does not mean that the Prophet (peace be upon him) could always tell the future or is a fortune-teller.
“Say (O Muhammed) I possess no power of benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I have the knowledge of the Ghaib (unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner, and bring glad tidings unto people who believe.”
UKAIDIR IN DUMAT AL-JANDAL
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) dispatched Khalid bin Al-Waleed at the head of four hundred and fifty horsemen to ‘Ukaidir in Dumat Al-Jandal and said to him: “You will see him hunting oryxes.” So when Khalid drew near his castle and was as far as an eye-sight range, he saw the oryxes coming out rubbing their horns against the castle gate. As it was moon light night, Khalid could see Ukaidir come out to hunt them. He captured him, though he was surrounded by his men and brought him back to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) who spared his life and made peace with him for the payment of two thousand camels, eight hundred heads of cattle, four hundred armours and four hundred lances. Prophet (peace be upon him) instructed him to recognize the duty of paying tribute and made him responsible for collecting it from Dumat, Tabuk, Ailah and Taima’.
AN ATTEMPT ON THE LIFE OF THE PROPHET (peace be upon him)
The impact of defeat at Badr was so great that the Makkans began to burn with indignation and resentment over their terrible losses. Two of the polytheists volunteered to quench their thirst and eliminate the source of that humiliation i.e. the Prophet (peace be upon him). ‘Umair bin Wahab Al-Jumahi, a terrible polytheist and an archenemy Safwan bin Omaiyah sat together lamenting their loss and remembering their dead and captives. ‘Umair expressed a fervent desire to kill the Prophet (peace be upon him) and release his captured son in Madinah, if it was not for the yoke of debts he was under and the large family he had to support. Safwan, also had his good reasons to see the Prophet (peace be upon him) killed, so he offered to settle ‘Umair’s debts and support his family if he went on with his plan. ‘Umair agreed and asked Safwan to keep the scheme a secret.
He left for Madinah, with a sword to which he applied some kind of lethal poison. ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) saw him at the door of the Mosque and understood that he had come with evil intentions. He immediately went into the Mosque and informed the Prophet (peace be upon him). He was allowed to enter, looped by the sling of his sword and greeted saying “good morning”, to which the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied that Allah had been Gracious and taught them the greeting of the dwellers of Paradise: “peace be upon you!” To a question raised by the Prophet (peace be upon him) about his object, ‘Umair said that he had come to see that his captured son was well treated. As for the sword, which the Prophet (peace be upon him) inquired him, he cursed it and said that it gained them nothing.
On exhorting him to tell his real goal, he remained adamant and did not divulge the secret meeting with Safwan. Here the Prophet (peace be upon him) got impatient and himself revealed to ‘Umair the latter’s secret mission. ‘Umair was taken by surprise, then an incredible astonishment seized him and he immediately declared his faith in Islam (the Shahaadah). He then began to praise Allah’s compassion for having been guided to the ‘Straight Path’. The Prophet (peace be upon him) was pleased, asked his companions to teach ‘Umair the principles of Islam, recite to him the Noble Qur’an and release his son from captivity. Safwan, meanwhile was still entertaining false illusions as to the approaching redemption of honor and burying the memory of Badr. He was impatiently waiting for ‘Umair’s news but to his great surprise he was told that the man had embraced Islam and become a devoted believer. ‘Umair later came back to Makkah where he started to call people unto Islam and actually managed to convert a lot of Makkans to Islam.
THE STORY OF THE TRENCH
The Muslims were digging the trench during the Battle of the Trench and some supernatural Prophetic signs were shown at that time. Jabir bin ‘Abdullah, seeing the Prophet (peace be upon him) starving, slaughtered a sheep, cooked some barley and requested the Prophet (peace be upon him) and some Companions to accept his invitation. But the Prophet (peace be upon him) gathered all the thousand people engaged in digging the trench and they started to eat until they were all completely full and yet the shoulder of mutton and dough that was being baked remained and the food was undiminished.
A woman brought a handful of dates and passed by the Prophet (peace be upon him) who took them. He threw them over his cloak and invited his followers to eat. The dates began to increase in number until they dropped over the brim of his robe.
Another miracle was when a rock stood out as an immune obstacle in the ditch. The Prophet (peace be upon him) took the spade and struck, and the rock immediately turned into a loose sand dune. In another version, Al-Bara’ said: On Al-Khandaq (the trench) Day there stood out a rock too hard for our spades to break up. We therefore went to see the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) for advice. He took the spade, and struck the rock saying “In the Name of Allah, Allah is Great, the keys of Ash-Sham (Geographical Syria) are mine. I swear by Allah, I can see its palaces at the moment;” on the second strike he said: “Allah is Great, Persia is mine, I swear by Allah, I can now see the white palace of Madain.” For the third time he struck the rock saying, “Allah is Great, I have been given the keys of Yemen, I swear by Allah, I can see the gates of San’a while I am in my place.” The rock turned into very small pieces. Ishaq narrated the same version.
The northern part of Madinah was the most vulnerable, all the other sides being surrounded by mountains and palm tree orchards. The Prophet (peace be upon him) as a skillful military expert, understood that the Confederates would march in that direction. So the trench was ordered to be dug on that side. The Muslims went on digging the trench for several days. They used to work during the day and go back home in the evening until it was completed in time and assumed its full dimensions militarily. The huge army of the idolaters which numbered as many as ten thousand fighters, arrived and settled in the vicinity of Madinah in places called Al-Asyal and Uhud.
THE STORY OF AL-HIRAH
Al-Bukhaari narrates that ‘Adi said: “While we were with the Prophet (peace be upon him) a man came and complained to him about poverty. Another man came and complained about highway robbery. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) then said: “O Adi! Have you ever been to Al-Hirah? If you were destined to live a long life, you would be able to see a woman travel from Hirah riding a camel till it circumambulates the Ka'bah fearing none but Allah; and if you were to live long enough you would open the treasures of Kisra. And if you were to live long you would be able to see a man offering a handful of gold or silver to others but no one would accept it.”
At the end of this Hadith ‘Adi later on says: ”I have seen a woman riding camel travel from Al-Hirah till it circumambulates the Ka'bah fearing none but Allah. I have also been one of those who opened the treasures of Kisra bin Hurmuz. If you were to live long life you would witness what the Prophet (peace be upon him), Abul Qasim, had already said about ‘offering a handful of….. ’ i.e. the Prophet’s prophecies did really come true.”
THE STORY OF UTAIBAH
‘Utaibah bin Abi Lahab once came to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and most defiantly and brazenly shouted at him, “I disbelieve in, “By the star when it goes down” [53:1] and in “Then he (Gabriel) approached and came closer.” [53:8] In other words: “I do not believe in any of the verses from the Qur’an.” He then became violent and started to deal highhandedly with Muhammed (peace be upon him), tore his shirt and spat at the face but it missed the face of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Thereupon, the Prophet (peace be upon him) invoked Allah’s wrath on ‘Utaibah and supplicated: “O Allah! Set one of Your dogs on him.” Allah responded positively to Muhammed’s supplication, and it happened in the following manner:
Once ‘Utaibah with some of his companions from Quraysh set out for Syria and took accommodation in Az-Zarqa’. There a lion approached the group to the great fear of ‘Utaibah, who at once recalled Muhammed’s words in supplication, and said: “Woe to my brother! This lion will surely devour me just as Muhammed supplicated. He has really killed me in Syria while he is in Makkah." The lion rushed like lightning, snatched ‘Utaibah from amongst his people and crushed his head.
THE STORY OF UBAI BIN KHALAF
Ibn Ishaq related: “One day when the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was going up the hillock, he was followed by Ubai Bin Khalaf who was saying: ‘Where is Muhammed? Either I kill him or I will be killed.’ The Companions of Muhammed (peace be upon him) said: ‘O Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), do you mind if one of us combats with him?’ But the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: ‘Leave him!’ So when he drew nearer, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) took the spear from Al-Harith bin As-Simma. He shivered violently in such a way that all of them scattered in all directions. The Prophet (peace be upon him) faced him (i.e Ubai) and observed his throat through a gap between the wide opening of the armour and the part of his neck enclosed by. He speared him in that spot. The effect of the stroke was so strong that it made him roll off his horse over and over. When he returned to Quraysh, they found that he had only had a small scratch in his neck. So when blood became clotted he said: ‘By Allah, Muhammed has killed me.’ Others heard him and replied, ‘By Allah you are afraid to death. By Allah, you are possessed by a devil.’ But he replied, “He already told me when we were in Makkah, ‘I will kill you.’ By Allah, had he spat on me, he would have killed me.” Eventually, the enemy of Allah breathed his last at a place called Sari, while they were taking him back to Makkah.
THE STORY OF BILAL'S CALL ON THE KA'BAH
After the conquest of Makkah when time for prayer approached, Bilal ascended the Ka'bah and called for prayer. Abu Sufyan bin Harb, ‘Itab bin Usaid and Al-Harith bin Hisham were sitting in the yard. ‘Itab bin Usaid commented on the new situation (Bilal ascending the Ka'bah and calling for prayer) saying that Allah honored Usaid (his father) having not heard such words. The Prophet (peace be upon him) approached and assisted by Divine Revelation told them that he learned about what they had spoken of. Al-Harith and ‘Itab, taken by surprise, immediately professed Islam and bore witness that Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), adding that “We swear by Allah that none had been with us to inform you.”
There are no recorded miracles of Muhammad in the Quran
False. The splitting of the moon is mentioned in Surat Al-Qamar, and Surat Ar-Rum contains the prophecized victory of the Romans and the Muslims.
but when Muhammad's followers saw Muhammad's inferiority to Jesus
Prophet Muhammad pbuh is not inferior to Prophet Jesus. Both are Prophets of God, and Muhammad saws is the final and greatest messenger of God. It is sad to see that you are incapable of debating intellectually so you resort to petty insults.
they started making some up in the Hadith
The hadith is Mutawatir, which demonstrates it cannot be made up.
Muhammad cut the moon in half with a sword
No, there is no mention of a sword.
a palm tree cried like a baby because Muhammad wouldn't preach under it, Palm Trees do not cry to be preached under, Lets get realistic here.
This is plain laughable! You ask for a miraculous occurance, and then dismiss it as unrealistic!! I suppose Jesus raising people from the dead and walking on water was realistic?!
Muhammad made water flow out of his fingernails so that people could drink--the Hadith contradicts itself on how many supposedly people drank it.
Show me the contradiction - I challenge you.
These made up "miracles" go on and on.
Your arguments have really deteriorated. You initially come here claiming to be looking for a sincere debate with "love and friendship" but when your arguments are devastated and you are intellectually humiliated, you resort to petty insults like the above. Calling the miracles made up will not make them so. Go find some hard evidence to substantiate your claims.
Why are you telling me to refer to verses I explained in my last post?!
Also, the Hadith makes it clear that Muhammad was a sinner--NOT sinless as some Muslims now claim:
"Muhammad replied..."O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." Volume 1, number 711. See also (Quran 40:55, 48:2, and 47:19)
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Clearly, my hopes were misplaced!
- Sura 17:90-94 of the Qur'an tells about how,
when Muhammad was challenged to perform a miracle and prove he was from the true god,
he could not perform any and here he actually says himself: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger? ".
- In Sura 13:7, we find that Muhammad did not perform any miracles.
The people are saying that even one sign would be enough to convince them,
just one miracle performed by Muhammad - and yet he still does none....
All along, the unbelievers asked Muhammad to perform a miracle so that they could believe.
All they got in response was,
- Sura 17:90
They say: "We will by no means believe in you until you cause a fountain to gush forth from the earth for us.,"
And Muhammad would reply:
- Sura 17:93
Say: "Am I anything but a man,- a messenger?"
So your old arguments have failed you, so now you resort to copy-pasting a new set of allegations. This has also already been debunked on this forum by br. kadafi:
The ayaat that you cited did not deny the Prophetic miracles, rather it enforces the point that miracles soley come from Allaah (Exalted is He) and that the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not create these [signs/miracles]. That's why Allaah (Exalted is He) commanded His Messenger to say: "Am I anything but a man, sent as a Messenger?"
to refute the claim of the Quraysh that in order for them to believe the Prophet; he should have the ability to perform miracles whenever he desires. It is also reapplied in the statement where the Prophet says:
The signs are only with Allaah, and I am only a plain warner.
meaning, the signs come only from Allaah and as I am only a plain warner.
There is a passage in the Bible where Eesa ibn Maryam (Peace be upon him) refused to give a miracle to those who requested:
The Pharisees came forward and began to argue with him, seeking from him a sign from heaven to test him.
He sighed from the depth of his spirit and said, "Why does this generation seek a sign? Amen, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation."
Then he left them, got into the boat again, and went off to the other shore.
This did not stop him from performing miracles but it demonstrated the Prophet's avowment that all Prophets are humans, just like you and they or the nation[s] that they were sent to cannot demand a miracle according to their desires.
Allaah (Exalted is He) says:
We did send messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: and it was never the part of a messenger to bring a sign except as Allaah permitted (or commanded). For each period is a Book (revealed).
Additionally, some of the 'miracles' requested by the Mushrikeen had no connection in establishing the truthfulness of a claim to prophethood while the other requests where inconceivable demands.
To make it clear, they demanded six things in the ayat; three of them were inconceivable whilst the other three had no connection with establishing the truthfulness of a claim to prophethood.
The first inconceivable claim from the Mushrikeen was causing the heaven totfall upon them piecemeal. This would entail the destruction of the Earth and the death of its inhabitants. Obviously, such thing was already prophesised that it would occur at the end of time. Further, if this 'miracle' was granted, it would be incompatible with the survival of mankind and the guidance toward their perfection that wisdom has determined.
The second inconceivable claim from the Mushrikeen is to see Allaah and this is impossible as Allaah cannot be seen with this wordly eyes. It also attributes limitation to Allaah (Exalted is He).
The third inconceivable claim from the Mushrikeen is to bring down a letter from Allaah. Here they attribute human characteristics to Allaah and far exalted is he from what they ascribe to him.
The other three things had no bearing on the truthfulness of the claim to be a prophet. This is because the Mushrikeen demanded that he should cause a spring to gush forth from the earth, or that they own a garden of date-palms and grapes and abundant rivers, or own a house of gold. Obviously these things have no connection with the claim to be a prophet. How many people have them, yet are not prophets. Indeed, some people have all three of them, yet they are not necessarily believers, let alone prophets. So thus since these things have no bearing on the claim of prophethood, and do not prove its veracity, producing them in the context of proving this veracity would be a futile act that any prophet would not perform.
These are simply reasons behind the rejecting of some Signs that where demanded by the Mushrikeen. The main reason is that all miracles come from Allaah (Exalted is He).
Jesus did no miracles.
Muhammad did no miracles.
He did not heal the sick, raise the dead, raise himself from the dead, cure the Blind, walk on water
cast out demons, or rule the wind and the waves. He had no more power than any normal man.
So Eternal Life and promises of paradise is a total joke Mr Ansar Al-'Adl.
He did not heal the sick, raise the dead, raise himself from the dead, cure the Blind, walk on water
cast out demons, or rule the wind and the waves. He had no more power than any normal man.
So Eternal Life and promises of paradise is a total joke Mr Mikeengland.
I can answer baseless assertions with baseless assertions. They won't get the discussion anywhere. If you respond by saying, "no! he did perform miracles, the New Testament says so!" then I have already quoted the Islamic scriptures, Qur'an and Ahadith which state that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh performed miracles. You reject the scriptures I quote as 'lies' but then expect me to accept what you quote as 'truth'. Your perverse sense of logic demonstrates that you have no desire to learn nor debate - you have already made up your mind that Islam is false and Christianity is true. I have refuted your lies about the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and sins three times
but you have ignored my response each time, and instead brought up new sets of allegations. You have only exposed your own insecurity and intellectual fraility in doing so.
So Again I ask you Mr Ansar Al-'Adl For proof of the existence of Muhammad?
Check out these 7th century arabic inscriptions:
My Direct Questions you have sidestepped on muhammads propethood. Instead your Defence is to attack the Bible.
I have sidestepped nothing. I have answered every word in every single one of your posts and have allowed you too much leniency in changing the topic to include everything from allegations that the Qur'an endorses the present day Bible to claims that the Prophet sinned. Launching dozens of new allegations while evading my posts only exposes your own weakness on the subject. Why not discuss each allegation one at a time so that we can gain an in-depth understanding of it? No, that would be awful for a Christian's arguments which are constructed upon misquotations and distortions.
I'm still awaiting your response to this:
This is the contradiction:
Jesus says: "and whoever shall say, 'You fool', shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." (Matthew 5:22)
And yet Jesus also says: You fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? (Matthew 23:17)
Can you see the contradiction between these verses? The first states that if someone says "you fool" to someone else, then they are guilty of hell, and in the second verse Jesus does it himself!!
Your allegations about the Prophet's marriage to Aisha rd were refuted here:
Since you failed to stick to one topic
, and decided to bring up new allegations, we will discuss each one individually in seperate threads to allow for a complete discussion.
The threads for each of the topics mentioned are as follows...
If you want to discuss sins and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
If you want to discuss whether or not the Qur'an endorses the present day Bible you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
If you want to discuss allegations about killings or assassinations from the time of the Prophet you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
If you want to discuss what the Qur'an says about the Prophet Muhammad pbuh performing miracles you will find your allegations already refuted in this thread:
Any further questions or comments can be posted in one of these threads so we can examine each one of your allegations in detail, rather than you simply copy-pasting as many distortions as you can in the hopes that it will consume more time and effort to respond to all of them in detail.