1:1 debates

[glo]

Hi mods

Mikeengland's request for a debate with one other person struck me as not a bad idea.
It can be very confusing and extremely time-consuming to have to deal with many other people in the same discussion - especially if you are the only one representing your opinion.

I know of other forums which have special folders for formalised 1:1 debates. Two people are nominated to make their cases for a limited amount of time. No other members have access to contribute - they can only read.
Rules ensure sensible and polite discussion.

Would it be useful to introduce something like that here? Are people interested? Would it be technically possible?

Just asking ...

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I think that is a cool idea!
-Peace

[Tania]

I can't understand why would not they talk in messages than, if its 1: 1 :?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

but a lotta PM's may be given to the muslim participant haha i kno i will! :p :p :p


:peace:

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[Tania]

I think its only me which i can't understand the importance of the 1:1 debate :-[

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I think its only me which i can't understand the importance of the 1:1 debate :-[

no i actually agree wiv you sis, 1:1 is quite a good idea.

But it depends if our knowledgable Admins feel like taking on the task.

:peace: :)

[glo]

I think its only me which i can't understand the importance of the 1:1 debate :-[

Sorry, mara, I'll try to explain.

The main purpose of a public forum such as this is for people to share their views freely, whenever they want. That's why we are all here! :)

I am just wondering whether we should make a space somewhere for a formal 1:1 discussion between two nominated debaters. For the rest of us it would be more like watching a discussion on TV - we just listen, learn and form our own opinions.

It should not replace the open discussions and posts that go on here.

It's just an idea. I was wondering what other people thought. :)

but a lotta PM's may be given to the muslim participant haha i kno i will!

And, no, Abd'Majid, no cheating!!! ;D

peace.

[al-fateh]

i would suggest a section of the forum for that

I have something called

The Great Debate Room that i started like a week ago

not a bad idea at all.

http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=59

[muslim_friend]

Nice format for a debate glo.I hope they use it to come to common conclusions.

[j4763]

Great idea, that way no one can butt in and we would not have loads of different questions being answerd. then thread can stay on topic and focus on the main debate.:)

[Woodrow]

It can work, as long as the debaters have equal debating skills. That would assure that an arguement would be proven on the basis of verifiable evidence and not on an individuals debating skills. Keep in mind that debates can be won in several manners, by presentation of a preponderance of verifiable evidence or by manipulation and misdirection through debating capabilities.

The debaters would need to have debating skills and most importantly mutual honor and respect for each other. Also would require extensive knowledge in the subject matter.

[Mawaddah]

It can work, as long as the debaters have equal debating skills

This is exactly my main concern. One person may have full knowledge of his subject but the other may lack information and also ability of debate. Thus it wouldn't be a fair debate. But how do we determine this? Or would it be up to the person to decide whether they are suitable for the debate?

I personally think that this is an interesting Idea, rather than having many people posting their opinions. What do the Mods say? I haven't seen any of their input on this topic.

[muslim_friend]

This is exactly my main concern. One person may have full knowledge of his subject but the other may lack information and also ability of debate. Thus it wouldn't be a fair debate. But how do we determine this? Or would it be up to the person to decide whether they are suitable for the debate?

that was exactly what i was thinking. maybe a couple of knowledgable members can group together and form a team and give out a commonly accepted answer..

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

This is exactly my main concern. One person may have full knowledge of his subject but the other may lack information and also ability of debate. Thus it wouldn't be a fair debate. But how do we determine this? Or would it be up to the person to decide whether they are suitable for the debate?

I personally think that this is an interesting Idea, rather than having many people posting their opinions. What do the Mods say? I haven't seen any of their input on this topic.

Yeah. Blatantly Ansar would get picked all the time though, lol. Or Muhammad.
But I think it's a cool idea. Aslong as the opponents have equal debating skills, like Woodrow suggested.
W'salaam

[IbnAbdulHakim]

is there anyone with equal skill to Ansar? :?


In all honesty i doubt it... :)

:salamext:

[Mawaddah]

Yeah. Blatantly Ansar would get picked all the time though, lol. Or Muhammad.
But I think it's a cool idea. Aslong as the opponents have equal debating skills, like Woodrow suggested.
W'salaam

Yes ...... Since the most knowledgeable person around is Bro Ansar, He would most probably be put up for all the debates. Hmmm......but that wouldn't be very fair.

[Woodrow]

This is exactly my main concern. One person may have full knowledge of his subject but the other may lack information and also ability of debate. Thus it wouldn't be a fair debate. But how do we determine this? Or would it be up to the person to decide whether they are suitable for the debate?

I personally think that this is an interesting Idea, rather than having many people posting their opinions. What do the Mods say? I haven't seen any of their input on this topic.

"What do the Mods say? I haven't seen any of their input on this topic"

Now I feel like chopped liver, LOL

[Umm Yoosuf]

Assalaamu Alaikum

I do not know I have my doubts. What if the person is busy with other matters and does not really have much time on their hands. How will it then work? The participate will have to wait. In addition, the forum I do not think is about debating but giving dawah (inviting others to Islam). Perhaps this could feat that purpose. Also with debates, you learn new things even as a Muslim or perhaps you don’t understand something or you’re not in agreement with a subject said at hand – it would require one to ask questions- yes? So 1:1 debate will defeat one in asking questions to gain knowledge- this is what we are all here, to share and to gain knowledge.

How will you select members taking part in the debate? Some members are strong in one filed (subject). E.g one member may be good in the history of Islam and not in the fields of Qur’an. Say they are asked a question/ or the subject is somehow diverted that way or perhaps a question comes up related to Quran- what happens then?

All in all it is a good suggestion I can imagine it working out.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

^^hmmm..... true.
*thinking*
I guess it's up to the admins and super mods.

[Umm Yoosuf]

In addition to my first post, may I add that, some member’s think they have the Islamic knowledge to debate whereas in reality they do not. I have noticed some members explain Islam according to their own desires and reasoning’s, may Allah safe us from this. They themselves mislead the one trying to seek knowledge. So…after all I don’t really thing it’s a good idea.

Allah knows best.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I hope that isn't reffering to me.:(^

[Umar001]

Erm its a good thing,

I would recommend having a period after the debate for open questions and answers for people to ask each debater what they want and the debater provides and answer.

With regards to the point brought forth by Al Mu'mina,
That wouldnt be a problem, we would stick the debate on a topic and off topic question, as zakir naiks brother says, will not be entertained.

And if they are abouot Islam then they can be asked in a different thread and if they are about Christianity or something another thread with that question can be made and people have a dicussion over.

I dont see anything wrong with such a thing.

The debaters will be picked, and if they agree, there should be rules put in place such as, a time table on who goes firstand how long till the rebuttal has to be placed in and so on, if the debater cannot work on that schedule then he should not accept, if he does and fails to turn up then maybe a warning or something and not allowed to accept any debates for a month or something like that.

I think it would be cool.

[glo]

I'm not sure Al-Mu'minah.

The way I have seen it work goes something like this:
Say I propose a debate on ... say ... the authenticity of the Qur'an :X (I think the topic would have to be specified quite clearly). Somebody else agrees to debate this with me.

I make my first argument, my 'opponent' replies ... and so on.
Perhaps there could be a limit to how many exchanges there should be?

Rather than having a public sparring session, this exchange could be done in private, then put past the mods and posted up as a 'sticky' - so other members don't read it as it's typed, but only read the finished product.
I think participants would have to stick to firm rules on mutual respect and conduct.

Peace.

[Umar001]

In addition to my first post, may I add that, some member’s think they have the Islamic knowledge to debate whereas in reality they do not. I have noticed some members explain Islam according to their own desires and reasoning’s, may Allah safe us from this. They themselves mislead the one trying to seek knowledge. So…after all I don’t really thing it’s a good idea.

Allah knows best.

But sis, people do that on the forum anyhow, then they get their post deleted right?

In a debate it would be more closesly watched, so it would actually be safer than jus random posts on the forum.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

In addition to my first post, may I add that, some member’s think they have the Islamic knowledge to debate whereas in reality they do not. I have noticed some members explain Islam according to their own desires and reasoning’s, may Allah safe us from this. They themselves mislead the one trying to seek knowledge. So…after all I don’t really thing it’s a good idea.

Allah knows best.

:salamext:

in my honest opinion this only gives credit to the 1-1 debate.
This way we can ensure someone with a lot of "ILM" such as ansar participates in the debate and the dawa will be better inshaAllah.


:wasalamex

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I'm not sure Al-Mu'minah.

The way I have seen it work goes something like this:
Say I propose a debate on ... say ... the authenticity of the Qur'an :X (I think the topic would have to be specified quite clearly). Somebody else agrees to debate this with me.

I make my first argument, my 'opponent' replies ... and so on.
Perhaps there could be a limit to how many exchanges there should be?

Rather than having a public sparring session, this exchange could be done in private, then put past the mods and posted up as a 'sticky' - so other members don't read it as it's typed, but only read the finished product.
I think participants would have to stick to firm rules on mutual respect and conduct.

Peace.

Wow.... ok, i'm convinced. You've got me hooked.:shade:

[glo]

Wow.... ok, i'm convinced. You've got me hooked.:shade:

Don't think that I'm volunteering, mind!!!! :rollseyes ;D

peace. :thankyou:

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Don't think that I'm volunteering, mind!!!! :rollseyes ;D

peace. :thankyou:

Neither am I.;)

[Umm Yoosuf]

IsaAbdullah:

The debaters will be picked, and if they agree, there should be rules put in place such as, a time table on who goes firstand how long till the rebuttal has to be placed in and so on, if the debater cannot work on that schedule then he should not accept, if he does and fails to turn up then maybe a warning or something and not allowed to accept any debates for a month or something like that.

Some interestiong points. There are few people that are knowledgeable to certian degree in this forum. They have other responsibilities to take care of restricting them to rules and regulations is not suitable.

We have the compative religion section for deabtes why can't we stick to that? Ok so people go off topic and one get annoyed with all the non-stop questions and answers given but that is for the questioner/or the one that brought the subject up to focus on an individual and respond to others later.

[Umar001]

*tries to bargain*

Some interestiong points. There are few people that are knowledgeable to certian degree in this forum. They have other responsibilities to take care of restricting them to rules and regulations is not suitable.

Sister...Sister, if those knowledgeable people dont have time then they can say, I dont got time. And if that means we have to wait 2 years before a knowledgeable person has time then, is there any harm?

We have the compative religion section for deabtes why can't we stick to that? Ok so people go off topic and one get annoyed with all the non-stop questions and answers given but that is for the questioner/or the one that brought the subject up to focus on an individual and respond to others later.

Because in the comperative religion section, the threads get tangled up, for example:

Someone makes a point, you come back to that point after an hour, and everyone has asked other questions to that person so that person cannot be approached with regards to that point.

Or

You ask someone something and they can just avoid it and say, 'I never saw that post' just because they are trying to get away. In a direct debate such thing would not be possible since the debater will be focoused on one person.

Also, how many times sister have you wanted to make a good point, and get it across, but felt, theres not much point the thread has moved on anyway.

Many other reason along the same line.

[Umm Yoosuf]

glo:

The way I have seen it work goes something like this:
Say I propose a debate on ... say ... the authenticity of the Qur'an :X (I think the topic would have to be specified quite clearly). Somebody else agrees to debate this with me.

Is not that what already happens through out the forum?

Rather than having a public sparring session, this exchange could be done in private, then put past the mods and posted up as a 'sticky' - so other members don't read it as it's typed, but only read the finished product.
I think participants would have to stick to firm rules on mutual respect and conduct.

I disagree. The purpose of this forum is to call people to Islam, to clear up misconceptions etc If you restrict members from seeing the debate whilst it is at hand and allow them to read the finished product- members are not going to be bothered to read it. I am sure you know that with debates, you are in a learning process and the key to learning is asking questions- how will that work if members only see the finished debate

[Umar001]

I disagree. The purpose of this forum is to call people to Islam, to clear up misconceptions etc If you restrict members from seeing the debate whilst it is at hand and allow them to read the finished product- members are not going to be bothered to read it. I am sure you know that with debates, you are in a learning process and the key to learning is asking questions- how will that work if members only see the finished debate

You have a question and answer at the end.

Not that am a fan of closed closet debates.

[Woodrow]

A forum I belong to has a debating group. How we do it is with 2 threads. The first thread is an introduction to a debate subject. Then we are open to volunteers who wish to debate of the pro side. After several people volunteer, we have an informal vote as to who will represent the pro side. We then do the same for the con side.

When a subject and 2 debaters are selected. A new thread is started with the title. DEBATE;(subject) A non participant starts that thread and lists the rules specificaly that after the OP no one will post except for the selected debaters, the pro debater will make the opening premise, posts alternate. We usually let each debate run until either one person concedes or there no reply within 48 hours, that is considered conceding or each debater makes 100 posts. The group mods delete any post in the thread by a non-debater.

[Umm Yoosuf]

*tries to bargain*




Sister...Sister, if those knowledgeable people dont have time then they can say, I dont got time. And if that means we have to wait 2 years before a knowledgeable person has time then, is there any harm?




Because in the comperative religion section, the threads get tangled up, for example:

Someone makes a point, you come back to that point after an hour, and everyone has asked other questions to that person so that person cannot be approached with regards to that point.

Or

You ask someone something and they can just avoid it and say, 'I never saw that post' just because they are trying to get away. In a direct debate such thing would not be possible since the debater will be focoused on one person.

Also, how many times sister have you wanted to make a good point, and get it across, but felt, theres not much point the thread has moved on anyway.

Many other reason along the same line.

Masha Allah yes those are good points and i do agree with them.

I have stasted my opinions I have exhausted everyone with my negative feedbacks. :X

[Umar001]

Masha Allah yes those are good points and i do agree with them.

I have stasted my opinions I have exhausted everyone with my negative feedbacks. :X

Sister, we always need someone be objective rite? and your doing it fine, alot of us get carried away in the heat of the moment so its nice to have someone like you to make us stop and think.

[AbdulHaq]

:sl:

I say that it should atleast be tried, like on a trial basis, and see how it goes.


Quran 16:125 -
"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance."

[snakelegs]

ummmmm.....
that thread was called "is mohammad a true prophet?" which seems a loaded question to begin with. obviously he is here to promote the "no" view. ithought it was against forum rules to promote a religion other than islam.
it is different if people ask someone of another religion to explain it or answer questions about it.
i see these debates as useless - both sides already know where they stand. so what is the point?
well, i'm probably the only one - maybe it's because i don't belong to either religion that i "don't get it".
anyway, my 2 cents.

[Umar001]

snake, do you learn from debates?

[snakelegs]

snake, do you learn from debates?

good question. truthfully - i don't know. i'm not sure i ever really read one, even. maybe that's why i don't get it.
what is to be learned from this one? for a muslim, it is not even a question and for a christian, obviously, he wasn't. what can be learned by either side - each side already knows the truth.
but if the consensus is that it is a learning thing - go for it.
it's not the first time i've been a minority of one.
i think i'll go hide now. :hiding:

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
I think informal open discussions are much better because everyone can contribute, it doesn't monopolize the discussions, you are not confined to time limits, you don't have to spend time negotiating rules, you have the option of leaving a discussion with a closeminded individual, you are not under pressure to represent anyone, it is not an "us" vs. "them" ego-slugfest, etc. Also, in a formal debate, the debator would probably get swarmed with member feedback and points - why not just have those members post the points themselves?

:w:

[Umar001]

good question. truthfully - i don't know. i'm not sure i ever really read one, even. maybe that's why i don't get it.
what is to be learned from this one? for a muslim, it is not even a question and for a christian, obviously, he wasn't. what can be learned by either side - each side already knows the truth.
but if the consensus is that it is a learning thing - go for it.
it's not the first time i've been a minority of one.
i think i'll go hide now. :hiding:

Well to be honest, I think if you ask a few Muslims about watching some debates they will tell you they did learn and maybe it did help them change their views.

Anyhow, Im not as fired up on it as i was y-day, because everyone seems so down on it, i wouldnt see much of a point no more.