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Believer5
06-30-2006, 05:52 PM
:sl:

These are two really beautiful articles. A must-read for the Muslims living in Britain:

http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/cont..._20022006.html

http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/cont..._17082005.html
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MinAhlilHadeeth
06-30-2006, 06:04 PM
JazakAllah sis.
W'salaam
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HeiGou
07-01-2006, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by saufia
:sl:

These are two really beautiful articles. A must-read for the Muslims living in Britain:

http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/cont..._20022006.html

http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/cont..._17082005.html
Beautiful? He says Muslims should marry white girls as well as girls from back home, Muslim boys must study Urdu (not Arabic interestingly enough and he is wrong about it being the third most widely spoken language - Hindi might be close but Urdu is not), Muslims should join the Conservative Party, work to overthrow Democracy, create a dictatorship, impose Sharia law, and bring back the gold standard.

The phrase "bag full of beans" springs to mind.

Which part of that would anyone endorse? Deport the guy.
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afriend
07-01-2006, 02:12 PM
lol...astaghfirullah, ur comments are amusingly rude at times, the way u just say it as it is......

Well, this person should try and tell the difference from 'Tradition' from 'Faith'
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czgibson
07-01-2006, 02:20 PM
Greetings,

What a pair of horrible, hate-filled articles. I can't believe someone could call them 'beautiful'.

Muslim men dominating Britain? Can't see it happening myself.

Peace
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HeiGou
07-01-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
What a pair of horrible, hate-filled articles. I can't believe someone could call them 'beautiful'.
Muslim women too. Personally I might tolerate polygamy if I were a woman (and as a man I think there is a lot to be said for it really, if you think about it, which I don't, much) but it would have to be about love. To reduce marriage as a tool for baby production and eventual Muslim domination is appalling - how could you say to your first wife "I've met a Shishka I want to marry, but don't worry, I don't love her, it is all about having more children"?

Mind you I did not think they were hateful so much as, umm, what can I say on LI without sounding rude, ideosyncratic?

Muslim men dominating Britain? Can't see it happening myself.
Unfortunately I can.
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Bittersteel
07-01-2006, 02:39 PM
Brits should deport people like these.
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Muezzin
07-01-2006, 03:28 PM
I loooove Xenophobia!

*beat*

I love it!
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 03:41 PM
Er.... lol.... I didn't actually read the article. I think I will now though, lol.
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HeiGou
07-01-2006, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I loooove Xenophobia!

*beat*

I love it!
Well I suppose I can't complain about the Xenophobia label, or rather I can but it would not be worth it. However that does not change the fact that this article was, umm, odd. Tell me, do you think young Muslim men ought to be learning Urdu or Arabic? Do you really think that paper money renders zakat meaningless and so the world needs to return to the Gold Standard? Just because I may be a touch, umm, feed up with some Muslims, doesn't mean that it is irrational to oppose this man's views.
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Muezzin
07-01-2006, 03:52 PM
Wooh! I gots one, pa! Hook, line and sinker!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well I suppose I can't complain about the Xenophobia label, or rather I can but it would not be worth it.
Please tell me where I labelled you as such.

However that does not change the fact that this article was, umm, odd. Tell me, do you think young Muslim men ought to be learning Urdu or Arabic? Do you really think that paper money renders zakat meaningless and so the world needs to return to the Gold Standard? Just because I may be a touch, umm, feed up with some Muslims, doesn't mean that it is irrational to oppose this man's views.
Where did I say I disagreed with your statements? Sure, mine was ambiguous, but that's how my sardonic/sadistic humour works (IF it works). I disagree with the man's opinions, and think that they are xenophobic.

I also think that such comments can give rise to xenophobia.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 03:55 PM
Man, that article is way too long. They both are. Is it really worth reading?
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searchingsoul
07-01-2006, 04:02 PM
deport
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HeiGou
07-01-2006, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Umm_Shaheed
Man, that article is way too long. They both are. Is it really worth reading?
I think so. You may.
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Beautiful? He says Muslims should marry white girls as well as girls from back home
and what IS wrong with that?? is there any british law out there saying muslim men whether they are born here or not shouldnt marry english women?..

Muslim boys must study Urdu (not Arabic interestingly enough and he is wrong about it being the third most widely spoken language - Hindi might be close but Urdu is not),
he didnt say Muslim Boys! he meant the Muslims of pakistani origin. is it a crime to study about your culture or heritage?

Muslims should join the Conservative Party, work to overthrow Democracy, create a dictatorship, impose Sharia law, and bring back the gold standard.

how can we impose sharia on a country which is not even muslim? ..the gold dinar in MUSLIM LANDS. so rich countries dont impose a never ending slavery on the poor!


Which part of that would anyone endorse? Deport the guy.
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
deport

Originally Posted by Emir Aziz
Brits should deport people like these.
deport him? this just goes to show you havent even read the article properly or know anything worth a ding dong about the man!..He is a native scot ..hes british..you thought he was some immigrant..read the articles AGAIN before you post anything inflammatory.

i dont agree with everything that scholar says..but he does make sense many a time.
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 05:13 PM
this is what Shaykh Abdul Qadir said about URDU..reposting it for HEIGOU

It is the deep intellectual responsibility of the new Muslim generation in Britain not to lose the Urdu language. Many English textbooks will tell you that Urdu was just a syncretic language of the barracks, used by soldiers. If we deconstruct this Imperialist view, we find that Urdu was the language of the great Horde, and it is the sublime, complex and poetic language which gave birth to the splendour of the Mughal dynasty which brought to the Sub-continent the only civilisation it has ever known


You must know English, and you must know the English of Shakespeare and reject the creole English imposed on the masses by the bankers’ world system, I mean, that of Pop and Hip-Hop. It is Urdu, nevertheless, which will give you the great richness and sophistication of a language refined and developed by great Sufis and poets. At the same time, you will have access to the world outside, by it. English is the dominant world language today, followed by Chinese. The third language, by usage world-wide, is Urdu.
why are you against that heigou?? whats wrong with what he said..urdu is spoken in India Pakistan and many people in Bangladesh also do speak it..

in addition to the urdu speaking communties in the West, and the Arabian Gulf/Africa..dont know if its the third largest (i think it is) but other than that whats your objection?
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 05:17 PM
Whoa... sis. The prophet (SAW) did not encourage is to dialouge in that way.
The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said:
The Muslim does not slander, curse, speak obscenely, or speak rudely." [Tirmidhi]
Be a little bit more gentle sis.:)
W'salaam
Reply

HeiGou
07-01-2006, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
and what IS wrong with that?????????? is there any british law out there saying muslim men whether they are born here or not shouldnt marry english women?..you're really spekaing utter nonsense.
I do not think that any religious leader ought to encourage his followers to enter into loveless marriages with, essentially, baby-machines for the purpose of changing the demographic make-up of a country. You may but if so we have different views about the purpose and nature of marriage.

he didnt say Muslim Boys!!!!!!! he said the MUSLIMS OF PAKISTANI ORIGIN!!. i guess accoridng to you HEIGOU its a crime to study about your culture or heritage..seriously heigou..grow some brain cells.
It is an odd thing for a religious scholar to be suggesting. Surely Muslims ought to learn the Quran or a language that will help them get a job to support their families. Isn't nationalism forbidden in Islam?

how can we impose sharia on a country which is NOT EVEN MUSLIM??? are you out of your friggen mind?
Perhaps but he seems to want to make the Muslims powerful enough that the country will become a Muslim one. So it would be easy then.

..the gold dinar in MUSLIM LANDS. so rich countries dont impose a never ending slavery on the poor!
Uh huh. Why not with paper money?

this just goes to show you havent even read the article properly or no anything wortha ding dong about the man!..THIS GUY IS A NATIVE SCOT hes SCOTTISH BRITISH..you fools thought he was some immigrant..read the articles AGAIN before you even use your fingers to post any nonsense.
1. I do not care if he was born on Mars.

2. Where is the evidence that he is ethnically Scottish (and if so why is he demanding Muslims learn Urdu?)?

i dont agree with everything that scholar says..but he does make sense many a time.
Where and on what subject?
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 05:20 PM
hhhh
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afriend
07-01-2006, 05:21 PM
how can we impose sharia on a country which is NOT EVEN MUSLIM??? are you out of your friggen mind?..the gold dinar in MUSLIM LANDS. so rich countries dont impose a never ending slavery on the poor!
MashAllah this is something to think about (the last bit)

Zakah is like a wealth irrigating system.....Circulate it to the needy!

(I wish I could rep you)
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 05:24 PM
As Muslims, we do not marry for the sake of marriage. We should do every for teh sake of Allah. But of course, the element of love must be present.
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HeiGou
07-01-2006, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
this is what Shaykh Abdul Qadir said about URDU..reposting it for HEIGOU
....
why are you AGAINST THAT heigou?? whats wrong with what he said..URDU is spoken in INDIA PAKISTAN and many people in BANGLADESH also do speak it..

in addition to the urdu speaking communties in the WEST, and the ARABIAN GULF/AFRICA...dont know if its the third largest (i think it is) but other than that whats your OBJECTION???
He said "It is the deep intellectual responsibility of the new Muslim generation in Britain not to lose the Urdu language." So you were wrong, he said, just as I said he said, Muslim boys (and girls) ought to learn Urdu. He nowhere says that only Muslims of Pakistani origin ought to learn Urdu as you claimed.

Having said that, I do not care what he thinks Muslims ought to learn. I am saying it is odd that a Muslim leader ought to chose his culture over his religion.

As for the people who speak it, it is a southern Asian language spoken in Pakistan. It is also an official language in some Indian states. The South Asians have taken it elsewhere but it is not the Third most widely spoken language,

Urdu speakers: 61 million native speakers, 104 million total
Ranking: 19-21 (native speakers), in a near tie with Italian and Turkish

So if you want to talk to other Muslims are you probably better off learning Turkish as that is close to Uzbek and so on.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 05:35 PM
I think it's only necessary to learn urdu if you have urdu spekaing parents, because alot of youths don't connect with their parents because of the langauge barrier. This is a cause for alot of arguments and misunderstandings. I don't know if that is what he meant though.
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I do not think that any religious leader ought to encourage his followers to enter into loveless marriages with, essentially, baby-machines for the purpose of changing the demographic make-up of a country. You may but if so we have different views about the purpose and nature of marriage.
loveless marriages? when did he suggets that? bring the quote plz..hes against people from the indian subcontinent marrying people from 'back home' because he thinks such marriages will not work given the difference and that its damaging to the development of the muslims here!!

It is an odd thing for a religious scholar to be suggesting. Surely Muslims ought to learn the Quran or a language that will help them get a job to support their families. Isn't nationalism forbidden in Islam?
he didnt say neglect arabic..but learn your own tongue your heritage..he never suggested not learning arabic..fanatic nationalism is haraam however its not haraam to love your country ..or your particular village or tribe..when does it become haraam? when you think your tribe country etc..is superior...in Islam its important we know more about our culture and heritage..a Qur'anic verse states that its a miracle that we have different tongues and colours..we should celebrate it.


Perhaps but he seems to want to make the Muslims powerful enough that the country will become a Muslim one. So it would be easy then.
He wants muslims to empower themselves ..muslims need that..afrocarribeans need that many other minorities too..we need to do something about our miserable situation..whats wrong with that? he doesnt talk about ruling the others..but he always says we should work alongside them..once again heres what he said

Originally Posted by Shaykh Abdal Qadir
The final responsibility that falls on the young Muslims of Britain is that they should participate in the legal-political processes of the country, in which they must insist that they are not defined by either colour or by being named immigrants.
In order that we both benefit our own community and also the wider citizenry of Britain, this participation must be understood in a serious and sophisticated manner.
Originally Posted by Shaykh Abdal Qadir
Today what is vital for the Muslims of Britain is that they support that movement which will protect, by wise reformation and not abolition, both the institutions and value-structure which over centuries have been set out to protect the legal rights of the individual, precisely against State interference and enslavement.

Uh huh. Why not with paper money?
read his many articles about that and why he thinks its the reason why many countries in the world are poor.. while the people in the west just getter wealthier and wealthier.

1. I do not care if he was born on Mars.

2. Where is the evidence that he is ethnically Scottish (and if so why is he demanding Muslims learn Urdu?)?
the evidence is in his site..hes a scot he lives in Norwich England...he embraced Islam in the 60s

Where and on what subject?.
thats irrelevant and besides the point...whats shocking is you accused the Shaykh of wanting to turn the UK into a dictatorship but he said muslims are more freer to practise the deen HERE in the west than in many muslim countries

Originally Posted by Shaykh Abdal Qadir
We are far from the situation of a true Islam, functioning and governing. Ironically, our Deen is less compromised in atheist countries like France and christian countries like Germany than it is in countries where both Government and Head of State insist they are Muslim to numb and paralyse a servile population - the dictatorships of Tunisia and Pakistan
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 05:43 PM
Lol sis calm down with the Caps Lock.:giggling:
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
He said "It is the deep intellectual responsibility of the new Muslim generation in Britain not to lose the Urdu language." So you were wrong, he said, just as I said he said, Muslim boys (and girls) ought to learn Urdu. He nowhere says that only Muslims of Pakistani origin ought to learn Urdu as you claimed.

Having said that, I do not care what he thinks Muslims ought to learn. I am saying it is odd that a Muslim leader ought to chose his culture over his religion.

As for the people who speak it, it is a southern Asian language spoken in Pakistan. It is also an official language in some Indian states. The South Asians have taken it elsewhere but it is not the Third most widely spoken language,

Urdu speakers: 61 million native speakers, 104 million total
Ranking: 19-21 (native speakers), in a near tie with Italian and Turkish

So if you want to talk to other Muslims are you probably better off learning Turkish as that is close to Uzbek and so on.
you should know more about the muslim population here 80% is of pakistani origins!! many Indians also speak Urdu especially the muslims..even bollywood movies is in urdu! even many bangladeshis speak it..this doesnt mean i as a nonurdu speaking person should learn it..he will tell me to learn my own language.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 05:49 PM
Arabic is the most important though sis. Arabic should be the mother tongue of a Muslim, in my opinion. Because it is the langauge of teh Qur'an. And it is the langauge that the beloved Rasul (SAW) spoke in. You cannot truly understand the deen unless you know classical arabic. And it is truly the most beautiful langauge to date.
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 05:50 PM
i apologise to everyone(especially heigou!) i was already in a rotten mood and reading this thread and people talking about deportation and just made me enraged..so ive edited all my posts..replaced the uppercase by making them bold to emphasise my point.

thanks sis Umm Shaheed for your sage advice.

peace yall
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 05:57 PM
Lol. Yeah, it would be better to say 'may Allah guide us all', if he was in the wrong.
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 06:21 PM
i really feel bad heigou..so accept my apology..

btw people any tips on getting my appetite back..i feel sooo horrible (dont ask me what happened!) :(
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SirZubair
07-01-2006, 06:35 PM
I am not going to bother reading the articles,they are too long ...

But according to what HeiGou said :

Originally Posted by HeiGou
Beautiful? He says Muslims should marry white girls as well as girls from back home, Muslim boys must study Urdu (not Arabic interestingly enough and he is wrong about it being the third most widely spoken language - Hindi might be close but Urdu is not), Muslims should join the Conservative Party, work to overthrow Democracy, create a dictatorship, impose Sharia law, and bring back the gold standard.

The phrase "bag full of beans" springs to mind.

Which part of that would anyone endorse? Deport the guy.
I guess the Scholor and I can agree to disagree on this one.

Wa'salaam.
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HeiGou
07-01-2006, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
i really feel bad heigou..so accept my apology..

btw people any tips on getting my appetite back..i feel sooo horrible (dont ask me what happened!) :(
I am touched you would apologise. I am not offended at all.

As for your appetite (been watching the Football have you?), you deserve a Rep for apologising. That shows real character. Does that help?
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scentsofjannah
07-01-2006, 09:13 PM
no its not the football..its something worse...but inshaAllah ill be better in a few weeks
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-01-2006, 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I am touched you would apologise. I am not offended at all.

As for your appetite (been watching the Football have you?), you deserve a Rep for apologising. That shows real character. Does that help?
Hello! What about me? Lol. Kidding.
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searchingsoul
07-05-2006, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah

deport him? this just goes to show you havent even read the article properly or know anything worth a ding dong about the man!..He is a native scot ..hes british..you thought he was some immigrant..read the articles AGAIN before you post anything inflammatory.

.
In that case the government should monitor his every step.
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scentsofjannah
07-06-2006, 02:58 PM
searching i really dont want to repeat myself..please refer to my past posts

Peace
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