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sonz
07-02-2006, 08:56 AM
Just a month after the Mashni family lost a son, it now must deal with a new kind of grief.

The Tinley Park family on Thursday received an anonymous hate letter in the mail, postmarked Wednesday from the Bedford Park regional post office.

It reads, "Muslims go home to your country. You are not welcome in our community. Is your weekends training for making bombs? How many bomb experts you have living with you? Muslims get out NOW."

"I think it is sickening," Kamal Mashni said. "Whoever wrote it has to be from the neighborhood. I don't even know any of them (neighbors). That's the funny part."

Mashni, his wife and their sons moved into their home in the Brementowne subdivision in mid-May, a week before the couple's 21-year-old son died from seizure complications. Since his death, the house has been filled with family and friends on weekends, Mashni said.

Mashni speculated that a neighbor might be upset about the number of cars parked near the family's home.

"I make sure they don't block driveways," he said.

Tinley Park police are investigating the letter as a hate crime, which is a felony, and likely will team with postal inspectors next week, police Cmdr. Rick Bruno said.

"This reminds us that there are still tiny minds out there, unfortunately," Bruno said.

Mashni said he and his family did not want to make a big deal out of the letter and considered throwing it away but reconsidered.

"If he did it today, he'll do it tomorrow," Mashni said of the author. "Hate is hate, I don't care about race or religion. Islam and Muslims are not terrorists. ... I'm an American citizen, and my kids are American citizens. I have been in this country since 1976, probably since before he (the author of the letter) was born."

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southt...ws/023abn1.htm
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glo
07-02-2006, 09:06 AM
Sonz, I have noticed how many news articles you post here, and sometimes I really wonder what your motivation is for posting such articles.
Surely incidents such as this are isolated ones! I could find you a hundred reports on neighbourly disputes and tensions ... regardless of racial and religious backgrounds.

Do you spend all your time scouring the interent for articles which are likely to cause division and spread religious/racial hatred?
And if so, why??? :? :(
And, is that the attitude that earns somebody a moderator staus around here??? :rollseyes :X

Peace.
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Nablus
07-02-2006, 09:10 AM
sick person who wrote the letter
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glo
07-02-2006, 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by Nablus
sick person who wrote the letter
I agree. And very ignorant too.

Peace.
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afriend
07-02-2006, 09:13 AM
Oh well.....Blah Blah...Just bin it. If I got something like that I wouldn't even bother to show it to my parents......
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Panatella
07-02-2006, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by glo
Sonz, I have noticed how many news articles you post here, and sometimes I really wonder what your motivation is for posting such articles.
Surely incidents such as this are isolated ones! I could find you a hundred reports on neighbourly disputes and tensions ... regardless of racial and religious backgrounds.

Do you spend all your time scouring the interent for articles which are likely to cause division and spread religious/racial hatred?
And if so, why??? :? :(
And, is that the attitude that earns somebody a moderator staus around here??? :rollseyes :X

Peace.
Hi sonz,
I have noticed the same thing, and have asked myself the same questions of your motives. Forgive me if I am wrong, but it does seem as if you are attempting to cause division. Are we (glo and myself) wrong?
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sonz
07-02-2006, 09:32 AM
division? religious hatred???

was the one who wrote the letter a religious person??? nothing was mentioned.

im posting here articles about things that the MAINSTREAM news wont report.

and how is this article causing division or spreading hatred???
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glo
07-02-2006, 10:05 AM
Originally Posted by sonz

and how is this article causing division or spreading hatred???
I just don't think it is representative of Muslims living in a non-Muslim society.
By posting such articles you sway the readers' view to thinking that this is not an isolated case, but is the norm of treatment Muslims receive in a non-Muslim society.

I am not saying you shouldn't post credible articles, I am just wondering about your motivation behind it.

If I continually posted, say, articles which highlight isolated incidents of women suffering at the hands of their husbands, I may be seen to have an anti-men, sexist attitude.
That doesn't mean my articles aren't true or relevant ... but it does mean that I may want to examine my own motivations behind my actions. :?

I would love to hear the view of other people.
Thanks, panatella, for your comments.
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Bittersteel
07-02-2006, 10:14 AM
let us not forget that Non-Muslims too face such threats in Islamic countries.okay Muslim countries.
my point is bad people exists in every society.
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KAding
07-02-2006, 10:41 AM
Well, obviously sonz should be commended for posting all these articles for discussion. Yet, I absolutely agree that the articles seem to almost always portray Muslims as victims and under attack by non-Muslims. They never deal with any of the problem within the Muslim world, such as the abdundance of Muslim on Muslim violence and the oppression of Muslims by other Muslims. If people were to only get there information from this site they would be seriously wrong picture of world events, which might make them overly emotional and this may eventually forment the hate between different religions and countries.

But then again, they shouldn't get there news from just one source anyway, so I'm not sure we can blame sonz for that!
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sonz
07-02-2006, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair
Sonz,no disrespect bro,but seriously,try posting an article once in awhile that is leaning more towards "the brighter side"..
its not a black and white world, enuff said. and i dont see u posting anything "bright". i post anything that is discussable since this is a forum. if u dont like it, then dont post or post ur own topics. im just sick of hearing u complain that im the only one allowed to post and others not.


I just don't think it is representative of Muslims living in a non-Muslim society.
By posting such articles you sway the readers' view to thinking that this is not an isolated case, but is the norm of treatment Muslims receive in a non-Muslim society.

I am not saying you shouldn't post credible articles, I am just wondering about your motivation behind it.

If I continually posted, say, articles which highlight isolated incidents of women suffering at the hands of their husbands, I may be seen to have an anti-men, sexist attitude.
That doesn't mean my articles aren't true or relevant ... but it does mean that I may want to examine my own motivations behind my actions.

I would love to hear the view of other people.
Thanks, panatella, for your comments.
glo

attacks of islamophobia has been ignored. ur coming across like muslims are having isolated incidents that any other non-muslim has while muslims have been discriminated since the 9/11.

this is a muslim forum and if any muslims are discriminated i will post it. if non-muslims are discriminated i will post it as long as it generates discussion.

people can post up their own articles and topics. its a free forum. no more offtopic posts after this pls or pm me.

masalama
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Isaac
07-02-2006, 12:11 PM
dont worry sons i dont have no authoruty on this fourm, but carry on posting what you feel is right. muslims and non-muslims alike should be made aware of hwat goes on around the world, be it on the battlefront or domestic front. be it politcial or religious. and what better plae to bring suhc topics. come on be honest out of this internet world when do ever get the occasion to discuss such topics with people from different faith and backgrounds. people who hold opposing views to people from the opposite sides of the war conflict.

And why does it have to be sinister, like he is plotting something. If thats the case, i must be upto something sinicter seeing tham i ususally postin on the crimes of western troops in iraq. and again if its based on sinicter motives i can come up with a number of names and arctles, inclduing comments which can be seen pro-ocative and intimdating even by members in this paticular thread. so now if your going to be stern and try to put a restriction on what someone can post your might as well tell him or her to leave. Obviously wat he or she post has to be within reason of the forum rules and regulatons.
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KAding
07-02-2006, 12:36 PM
Well, this is always a problem with forums on the internet IMHO, including this one. There is usually somekind of 'collective radicalization' going on while forum members comfirm eachothers opinions and feed eachothers fears. Those that disagree usually find another forum with more like-minded people. So many diverse forums get created, each with a different worldview and each filled with like-minded people who confirm the validity of eachothers opinions.

It's not that bad here, since there are some non-Muslims who balance it a bit. But it is nevertheless an interesting phenonemon. :)
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glo
07-02-2006, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
glo

attacks of islamophobia has been ignored. ur coming across like muslims are having isolated incidents that any other non-muslim has while muslims have been discriminated since the 9/11.

this is a muslim forum and if any muslims are discriminated i will post it. if non-muslims are discriminated i will post it as long as it generates discussion.

people can post up their own articles and topics. its a free forum. no more offtopic posts after this pls or pm me.

masalama
Please see my PM, sonz.

Peace.
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Umar001
07-02-2006, 12:49 PM
'Muslims go to your country'

Would be interesting to see the author write that to the fully English Muslims lol
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glo
07-02-2006, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah
'Muslims go to your country'

Would be interesting to see the author write that to the fully English Muslims lol
Yes.
The answer would be 'Errrmmm ... I am in my country!' ;D
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HeiGou
07-02-2006, 02:14 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
Well, obviously sonz should be commended for posting all these articles for discussion. Yet, I absolutely agree that the articles seem to almost always portray Muslims as victims and under attack by non-Muslims. They never deal with any of the problem within the Muslim world, such as the abdundance of Muslim on Muslim violence and the oppression of Muslims by other Muslims.
One of the reasons they never deal with such issues is that the rules have been changed to specifically prohibit anyone posting any articles that might make Muslims (not just Islam) look bad. It seems that articles that might make Westerners look bad are acceptable and I doubt that Sonz sees anything wrong with it.

Fair enough. If Muslims want to set a website they can run it as they like.

But I think that one family receiving letters from one crank is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Is there really nothing better going on in the world?
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Pk_#2
07-02-2006, 02:24 PM
AsalamuAlaykum,

LOL, that's silly, i guess i wouldn't care if i got it, and i definately wouldn't tell my family they get worried over little things, it's clear to see, it's just a prank and that they have no idea what they are talking about since they go with what the media says, Muslims are not terrorists, and yup there are Muslims born and raised in this country, hello? what's going on...

And also don't gang up on Sonz, tut tut - One Ummah!

It's true that some things sonz posts don't come up very often and you tend not to hear about it!,

Anyways, Jazakhala khair for the post :)

WalaykumSalaam.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
07-02-2006, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Sonz, I have noticed how many news articles you post here, and sometimes I really wonder what your motivation is for posting such articles.
Surely incidents such as this are isolated ones! I could find you a hundred reports on neighbourly disputes and tensions ... regardless of racial and religious backgrounds.

Do you spend all your time scouring the interent for articles which are likely to cause division and spread religious/racial hatred?
And if so, why??? :? :(
And, is that the attitude that earns somebody a moderator staus around here??? :rollseyes :X

Peace.
I dont understand your objection to his posting interesting articles in forums glo its seems as tho you would rather ignore what is going on in the world today
Im glad he posted it its interesting to know, its sad that these things are happening,but its benificial to know about some of these incidences from closed minded kufars may Allah the most hight guide them back to the Truth Ameen
I dont understand how that article will cause devision and spread religious ratial hate truthfully i dont think you understand what you said either
Peace
Reply

Woodrow
07-02-2006, 06:05 PM
Perhaps this is a good time for all of us to sit back and reflect for a minute. This forum is made up of all types of people. Each person has much freedom in selecting what he/she chooses to post about, abiding by only a few sensible rules.

What is of interest and value to one person may be trivious, usleless or even obnoxious to another. Yet, that same message may be of great value to a newcomer seeing it for the first time.

With that said, let us all keep in mind we are all responsible for the comments we make and if we are not getting the replies we desire, we may want to re-evaluate our methods of presentation.
Reply

glo
07-02-2006, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
i dont think you understand what you said either
Hi Quruxbadaan

What a strange thing to say. I understand perfectly well what I say, but perhaps we best not get into that here.
According to sonz' request I have stopped posting off-topic posts in this thread ... until now, of course. :rollseyes

I have sent a PM to sonz and I am waiting for his reply. Until then, there is not much else I have to say.

peace.
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sonz
07-02-2006, 06:29 PM
salama

jzk br. isaac and others.

thnx for ur pm glo. it shows ur kind spirit as opposed to sirzubair who insulted me in a pm. but lets get back to the topic

this hateful letter can turn in to a hateful crime. lets remember the afro americans in the 60's and 70's. they were threatend with hateful letters than hate crimes followed after that.

its true now that muslims in america are the new "afro americans from the 60's and 70's"

masalama
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HeiGou
07-02-2006, 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
its true now that muslims in america are the new "afro americans from the 60's and 70's"
How is that true? Martin Luther King struggled for human rights for African Americans. He did not kill anyone. Booker Taliaferro Washington and George Washington Carver worked to help improve the condition of African Americans. They did not kill anyone either. I do not recall a single plot by a single African American to murder White Americans until the 60s. I do not know of a single incident where African Americans planned to overthrow the government of the United States. You see the small difference here? Which of these two communities has produced radicals involved in terrorism lately?
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KAding
07-02-2006, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by sonz
salama

jzk br. isaac and others.

thnx for ur pm glo. it shows ur kind spirit as opposed to sirzubair who insulted me in a pm. but lets get back to the topic

this hateful letter can turn in to a hateful crime. lets remember the afro americans in the 60's and 70's. they were threatend with hateful letters than hate crimes followed after that.

its true now that muslims in america are the new "afro americans from the 60's and 70's"
Interesting comparison, since from an economic point of view Muslims in the US are actually better off then white Christians. Black Americans really were worse off, and they didn't fly planes into any buildings.

For those here who like to wallow in their perceived victimhood, might I make a suggestion for a nice startup tune for windows: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/S.../repressed.wav :thankyou:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-02-2006, 10:51 PM
Respect to sonz for awakening me to the reality so often.

JazakAllah khair bro, i read almost every article u post mashAllah.


:salamext:
Reply

azim
07-02-2006, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by sonz [IMG]images/element/misc/backlink.gif[/IMG]
its true now that muslims in america are the new "afro americans from the 60's and 70's"


Originally Posted by HeiGou
How is that true? Martin Luther King struggled for human rights for African Americans. He did not kill anyone. Booker Taliaferro Washington and George Washington Carver worked to help improve the condition of African Americans. They did not kill anyone either. I do not recall a single plot by a single African American to murder White Americans until the 60s. I do not know of a single incident where African Americans planned to overthrow the government of the United States. You see the small difference here? Which of these two communities has produced radicals involved in terrorism lately?
Are you suggesting that all Muslims kill people, plan to overthrow the United States government and spend their evenings radicalising youths?

That is the overall tone of your argument.

Also, keep in mind that during the 60's and 70's - blacks were considered to be violent, barbaric, uncivilised, prone to criminal activity etc...

Sonz analogy is accurate and fair enough. You're intelligent enough to see that.
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Woodrow
07-03-2006, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
How is that true? Martin Luther King struggled for human rights for African Americans. He did not kill anyone. Booker Taliaferro Washington and George Washington Carver worked to help improve the condition of African Americans. They did not kill anyone either. I do not recall a single plot by a single African American to murder White Americans until the 60s. I do not know of a single incident where African Americans planned to overthrow the government of the United States. You see the small difference here? Which of these two communities has produced radicals involved in terrorism lately?
Perhaps terroristic radicals are responsible only for their own actions and are not the product of a community.
Reply

Panatella
07-03-2006, 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
I dont understand your objection to his posting interesting articles in forums glo its seems as tho you would rather ignore what is going on in the world today
Im glad he posted it its interesting to know, its sad that these things are happening,but its benificial to know about some of these incidences from closed minded kufars may Allah the most hight guide them back to the Truth Ameen
I dont understand how that article will cause devision and spread religious ratial hate truthfully i dont think you understand what you said either
Peace
Hi Quruxbadaan,
Although you have addressed your post to glo, there were a few of us that expressed the same sentiment, so I think you will understand me offering my own answer to your post.
Speaking for myself, I would say I don't so much object to his posts, as I only questioned his motives. He has since offered his point of view, and I will have to accept that that is what it is.
I suppose part of my question was developed from the same observation that HeiGou made. The one about the fact that the rules have been altered so that articles shedding any bad light on a muslim are now not allowed. Yet, it seems to be open season on the kufar. Of coarse, it is a muslim run website, and can be run any way the administrator and mods see fit.
However, the same people running the forum have made it clear that nonmuslims are welcome and should feel comfortable posting here. Yet, the rules allow for articles to be posted that are possibly offensive to these guests, and no such articles are allowed to be posted about muslims. And it seemed, although it has been explained by sonz that it is not quite the case, that a mod was taking advantage of what seem like unfair rules to cause resentful feelings toward nonmuslims. So, of coarse, nonmuslims will end up not feeling very welcome.
I am not taking issue with the rules, I am only offering an observation on the way things may seem.

Now, as far as the letter goes to the family (the topic, remember?!), I think it was very likely a prank by some disgruntled, bigoted neighbor. And was unlikely to be of any real concern, but the family did the right thing in turning it over to the police. You never know.
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Anonymous.92
07-03-2006, 02:46 AM
Originally Posted by sonz
its not a black and white world, enuff said. and i dont see u posting anything "bright". i post anything that is discussable since this is a forum. if u dont like it, then dont post or post ur own topics. im just sick of hearing u complain that im the only one allowed to post and others not.



glo

attacks of islamophobia has been ignored. ur coming across like muslims are having isolated incidents that any other non-muslim has while muslims have been discriminated since the 9/11.

this is a muslim forum and if any muslims are discriminated i will post it. if non-muslims are discriminated i will post it as long as it generates discussion.

people can post up their own articles and topics. its a free forum. no more offtopic posts after this pls or pm me.

masalama
I agree with sonz. If the mainstream news don't want to report these types of incidents someone has to tell the other people. Anyone can post what they like as long as they don't break the rules.
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Woodrow
07-03-2006, 02:49 AM
I believe if you look through all the threads you will find that this forum is quite fair in presenting truth, pro and con. The emphasis does seem to be highly aimed towards keeping any member from bashing or slandering any other member. There are no seperate rules for Muslim and non-Muslim members.

Now back to the topic, quoting Panatella:

Now, as far as the letter goes to the family (the topic, remember?!), I think it was very likely a prank by some disgruntled, bigoted neighbor. And was unlikely to be of any real concern, but the family did the right thing in turning it over to the police. You never know.
That could very well be the case. Another explanation, some people on the street may just be paranoid from media hype. Was unaware as to why there were so many people coming and going at the house, they paniced and reacted erroneously. However, it is best the police werecalled in. Chances can not be taken.
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muslim_friend
07-03-2006, 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
But then again, they shouldn't get there news from just one source anyway, so I'm not sure we can blame sonz for that!
Nice point! i think what sonz is trying to do, is to let us know both sides of the story.. which is very fair thing. I find nothing wrong with that. Even if the same story occured in another continent, it must be pointed out and brought to notice. Ignoring it, will only result in more hatred towards the victims.
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Sis786
07-03-2006, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by sonz

It reads, "Muslims go home to your country. You are not welcome in our community. Is your weekends training for making bombs? How many bomb experts you have living with you? Muslims get out NOW."
Actually i spend my weekends in Afghanistan with my uncle Mr Laden making muffins!

Sorry it deserves a stupid response!
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Ghazi
07-03-2006, 04:19 PM
:sl:

Yet, it seems to be open season on the kufar.
The rules are there regarding the principles of the religion not muslim indiviuals apart from founders, let me ask you this a non-muslim's religion isn't brought up they're actions are so why make the comparison?
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------
07-03-2006, 04:21 PM
"Muslims go home to your country. You are not welcome in our community. Is your weekends training for making bombs? How many bomb experts you have living with you? Muslims get out NOW."
I AM in my country. O well deal with it. Yes it is would you like to join? We've got quite a few experts living with us. Nope sorry mate cant do that.

P.S. This is a JOKE. :rollseyes
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Isaac
07-03-2006, 05:53 PM
:happy: well put sister.
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Isaac
07-03-2006, 05:53 PM
i knew it was a joke
;D
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Abu Zakariya
07-03-2006, 06:01 PM
HeiGou

It seems you've now got someone you can relate to.
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HeiGou
07-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by azim
Are you suggesting that all Muslims kill people, plan to overthrow the United States government and spend their evenings radicalising youths?
I am not remotely suggesting that - any more than I would suggest that all White people lynched Black people in the South. But some did.

That is the overall tone of your argument.
No that's your interpretation, and a very convenient one at that, of my argument. It means you do not have to deal with it or even think about it.

Also, keep in mind that during the 60's and 70's - blacks were considered to be violent, barbaric, uncivilised, prone to criminal activity etc...

Sonz analogy is accurate and fair enough. You're intelligent enough to see that.
And yet Blacks were undoubtedly the victims and White undoubtedly came to see them that way in the 60s and 70s.
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HeiGou
07-03-2006, 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Perhaps terroristic radicals are responsible only for their own actions and are not the product of a community.
Indeed. Perhaps the KKK is too.
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HeiGou
07-03-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Abu Zakariya
HeiGou

It seems you've now got someone you can relate to.
That is true. If someone gets enough death threats they soon learn to sympathise with others who get death threats.
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glo
07-03-2006, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
That is true. If someone gets enough death threats they soon learn to sympathise with others who get death threats.
Do you get death threats, or am I reading this post wrong??? :?
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-03-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Do you get death threats, or am I reading this post wrong??? :?
mayb his implying the members of the forum giv him threats? lol

:peace:
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searchingsoul
07-09-2006, 04:16 PM
I think the intolerance is much greater in Europe. This is terrible!
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Woodrow
07-09-2006, 05:34 PM
Sadly many people do not realise when they are being intolerant. It seems that the majority of bigots I have personaly met, view themselves as being very liberal and tolerant. We as humans tend to believe that what we say and do, will be viewed by others in exactly the same concept we say it. Most intolerance does not begin as malice. It is the result of our thinking, that we know what the other person intends.

Sadly, that is seldom true in human communication. We may be aware that other people speak a different language, yet we fail to see that even in speaking with people of the same language, things are not interpreted exactly the same.

Communication is not just saying words. It is the exchange of ideas. We need to verify what idea is understood, not just what we say. It is very important that we ask sufficient questions, to know what others understand about what we say.
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