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star2005
07-02-2006, 10:07 PM
) pictures of animate objects and picture making;
2) music;
3) immorality, nudity, illicit bad word is not allowed, pornography, etc;
4) obscene language;
5) incitement to fornication;
6) negation of haya (modesty);
7) scenes of violence, sadism, and crime in general portrayed;
8) the addictive influence exercised by TV;
9) it encourages the acceptance of aggression as a mode of behavior;
10) it encourages imitation of the crimes portrayed;
11) the brainwashing action of TV, especially on the young;
12) it stunts intellectual growth;
13) it wastes time;
14) it interferes with one's religious duties and one's necessary and important worldly duties;
15) it diverts one's attention from the remembrance of Allah;
16) and it falls under the category described by Islam as lahw (pointless amusement). (Majlisul Ulama)

In the face of this formidable array pf evil factors and harmful effects no one can have any doubt of the illegality of television in Islam. Television, as has been seen, is an embodiment of sin and immorality. Islam can never condone or permit an institution that plays havoc with the spiritual, mental, and moral development of mankind. (Islam and Television, 20-21) [From Reliance of the Traveler, Nuh Ha Mim Keller, pp 964-965].
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Woodrow
07-02-2006, 10:16 PM
Very interesting thoughts. When viewed like that, they most likely are true.

To begin with I do not watch TV and do not like it. But, when I look at the statements:

1) pictures of animate objects and picture making;
2) music;
3) immorality, nudity, illicit bad word is not allowed, pornography, etc;
4) obscene language;
5) incitement to fornication;
6) negation of haya (modesty);
7) scenes of violence, sadism, and crime in general portrayed;
8) the addictive influence exercised by TV;
9) it encourages the acceptance of aggression as a mode of behavior;
10) it encourages imitation of the crimes portrayed;
11) the brainwashing action of TV, especially on the young;
12) it stunts intellectual growth;
13) it wastes time;
14) it interferes with one's religious duties and one's necessary and important worldly duties;
15) it diverts one's attention from the remembrance of Allah;
16) and it falls under the category described by Islam as lahw (pointless amusement). (Majlisul Ulama)

I wonder do those statements not also apply to books and literature? Are they not also applicable to conversation, education and employment?

Perhaps there are things we need to leave up to the scholars to debate and inform us about. Perhaps we need to look at our own selves and ask if what we do is in violation of the teachings.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-02-2006, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by star2005
)
7) scenes of violence,].
in the last 6 months all i saw is jet-li do a fighting scene, and now i feel kinda guilty for that :(

:salamext:
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Chuck
07-02-2006, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by star2005
) pictures of animate objects and picture making;
2) music;
3) immorality, nudity, illicit bad word is not allowed, pornography, etc;
4) obscene language;
5) incitement to fornication;
6) negation of haya (modesty);
7) scenes of violence, sadism, and crime in general portrayed;
8) the addictive influence exercised by TV;
9) it encourages the acceptance of aggression as a mode of behavior;
10) it encourages imitation of the crimes portrayed;
11) the brainwashing action of TV, especially on the young;
12) it stunts intellectual growth;
13) it wastes time;
14) it interferes with one's religious duties and one's necessary and important worldly duties;
15) it diverts one's attention from the remembrance of Allah;
16) and it falls under the category described by Islam as lahw (pointless amusement). (Majlisul Ulama)

In the face of this formidable array pf evil factors and harmful effects no one can have any doubt of the illegality of television in Islam. Television, as has been seen, is an embodiment of sin and immorality. Islam can never condone or permit an institution that plays havoc with the spiritual, mental, and moral development of mankind. (Islam and Television, 20-21) [From Reliance of the Traveler, Nuh Ha Mim Keller, pp 964-965].
No offence intended, but don't condemn TV so quickly, TV is the medium of information for billions of people around the world.... I wonder if this is the reason, Muslims are not media savvy?
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-02-2006, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
No offence intended, but don't condemn TV so quickly, TV is the medium of information for billions of people around the world.... I wonder if this is the reason, Muslims are not media savvy?
but bro most muslims tend to forget the good uses of TV and indulge in the bad :(, i gess u can only blame the user

:salamext:
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Woodrow
07-02-2006, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
but bro most muslims tend to forget the good uses of TV and indulge in the bad :(, i gess u can only blame the user

:salamext:

That could very well be the answer we need to know.
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Muezzin
07-03-2006, 05:42 PM
Say what you like, I still think 'House' is the best television show ever.

That reminds me, I've not been very sarcastic in this thread. Must try harder.
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searchingsoul
07-09-2006, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Say what you like, I still think 'House' is the best television show ever.

That reminds me, I've not been very sarcastic in this thread. Must try harder.
Yes House is a fabulous show. I can see you growing into a House someday.
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czgibson
07-09-2006, 04:28 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I wonder do those statements not also apply to books and literature? Are they not also applicable to conversation, education and employment?
I'm glad to see someone approaching this question intelligently. That first post was unbelievable! Rabid, pig-ignorant and stultifyingly ill-informed.

Some Muslims write as if they want to shut themselves out from the modern world altogether. It's heartening to see that many others don't want to be encouraged to stagnate in this way.

Peace
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chacha_jalebi
07-09-2006, 04:31 PM
jus watch islam channel :p lol
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muslim_friend
07-09-2006, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Some Muslims write as if they want to shut themselves out from the modern world altogether. It's heartening to see that many others don't want to be encouraged to stagnate in this way.
Depends on your definition of "Modern'.. If it was not Tv, where else would school kids get the thought of killing their own classmates?

If 'Modernity' today means Immorality and violence, count me out.. I'd prefer being "Civilised" than being "Modern" anytime.

Woodrow's opinion was excellent. TV though, has a much bigger influence than books, and its evils need to be dealt with.
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czgibson
07-09-2006, 05:29 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by muslim_friend
Depends on your definition of "Modern'.. If it was not Tv, where else would school kids get the thought of killing their own classmates?
Well, here's a quote from wikipedia giving a list of possible influences for the perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacre:

The shooting also resulted in an increased emphasis on school security, and a moral panic aimed at goth culture, heavy metal music, social pariahs, the use of pharmaceutical anti-depressants by teenagers, violent films and violent video games.
Note: TV not mentioned.

If 'Modernity' today means Immorality and violence, count me out.. I'd prefer being "Civilised" than being "Modern" anytime.
Of course, modernity does not mean that, and it never has. You're free to be a part of whatever you wish, and to opt out if that's what you want, but just condemning TV wholesale is surely a silly move.

Woodrow's opinion was excellent. TV though, has a much bigger influence than books, and its evils need to be dealt with.
Well, why not boycott all major artforms, just to be on the safe side? Why not boycott science, and all of the inventions it produces, because many scientists are athiests?

On the other hand, how about crediting people with a little intelligence, and an ability to be selective in the entertainment they choose to indulge in?

Peace
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muslim_friend
07-09-2006, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Well, here's a quote from wikipedia giving a list of possible influences for the perpetrators of the Columbine High School massacre:
Horrible.

Note: TV not mentioned.
>>The shooting also resulted in an increased emphasis on school security, and a moral panic aimed at goth culture, heavy metal music, social pariahs, the use of pharmaceutical anti-depressants by teenagers, violent films and violent video games

:?

Of course, modernity does not mean that, and it never has. You're free to be a part of whatever you wish, and to opt out if that's what you want, but just condemning TV wholesale is surely a silly move.
Just in case we misunderstand.. i'm not referring to the instrument, but what it portrays. I myself use the TV everday to watch the news.

Well, why not boycott all major artforms, just to be on the safe side? Why not boycott science, and all of the inventions it produces, because many scientists are athiests?
I believe anything that contradicts the laws, our religion has laid down for us to follow, must be boycotted. What have scientists got to do with this? :? yet again, if this science contradicts Islamic belief in any way, it must be boycotted by muslims.Eg:Theory of evolution, Conservation of energy.

On the other hand, how about crediting people with a little intelligence, and an ability to be selective in the entertainment they choose to indulge in?
But what about young kids, who are too young to understand right from wrong?
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Fishman
07-09-2006, 06:08 PM
:sl:
TV is a piece of equipment, like a knife. With a knife you could either stab your neighbour or peel a potato. Same with TV. You can either use it to show today's bad programs or use it to broadcast Islamic material, like Deedat's debates or an Islamic channel.
:w:
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azim
07-09-2006, 06:15 PM
I believe anything that contradicts the laws, our religion has laid down for us to follow, must be boycotted. What have scientists got to do with this? :? yet again, if this science contradicts Islamic belief in any way, it must be boycotted by muslims.Eg:Theory of evolution, Conservation of energy.
Why is conservation of energy against Islamic belief?

In response to the original post, we must keep in mind that a lot of things are based on intention and use. For example, the brother (star2005) who posted the original list of evil actions - cannot all of these be applied to the internet? The very medium you used to convey these ideas.

) pictures of animate objects and picture making;
2) music;
3) immorality, nudity, illicit bad word is not allowed, pornography, etc;
4) obscene language;
5) incitement to fornication;
6) negation of haya (modesty);
7) scenes of violence, sadism, and crime in general portrayed;
8) the addictive influence exercised by TV;
9) it encourages the acceptance of aggression as a mode of behavior;
10) it encourages imitation of the crimes portrayed;
11) the brainwashing action of TV, especially on the young;
12) it stunts intellectual growth;
13) it wastes time;
14) it interferes with one's religious duties and one's necessary and important worldly duties;
15) it diverts one's attention from the remembrance of Allah;
16) and it falls under the category described by Islam as lahw (pointless amusement). (Majlisul Ulama)

All of these almost certainly can describe the internet. However, as Muslims we should be sure to use the internet for its benefits and not indulge into its negatives and the things on it which are openly haram.

It is clear that the TV has got some serious issues in terms of morality, violence, pornography, and so much of it can be describe as lawh (big brother comes to mind), however TV has brought a lot of benefits too.

Enjoin the good and forbid the evil - this should be in every aspect of our life - including watching TV. If we see something on TV we like and is beneficial for the Ummah (i.e. reporting of incidents in Iraq) we should encourage it (letters of approval, emails of approval etc...) and if we see something on TV we disapprove of, we should condemn in whichever way we can (for example, a UK based Bengali language channel started a show with a 'fortune teller', to an audience which is almost completely Muslim, letters of complaint if sent, would quite easily remove this show).

Everything can be used for good and bad. All because something 'is' being used mainly for bad, doesnt mean one should abandon it. Rather one should try and enourage more good to come out of it.
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Fishman
07-09-2006, 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by muslim_friend
I believe anything that contradicts the laws, our religion has laid down for us to follow, must be boycotted. What have scientists got to do with this? :? yet again, if this science contradicts Islamic belief in any way, it must be boycotted by muslims.Eg:Theory of evolution, Conservation of energy.
:sl:
There are only two forms of evolution that contradict Islam:
  • Atheistic evolution, which says that evolution is completely unguided
  • The evolution of man, which denies the creation of Adam and Eve (PBUT)


And as for your remarks about conservation of energy, I can't believe that Islam goes against stopping the biggest man-made threat the world is facing today. If global warming continues, then thousands of our brothers and sisters would die. We would no longer be able to perform Hajj because there would be no aeroplane fuel left. The Middle East would starve. I'm sure conserving energy does not go against Islam.
:w:
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Panatella
07-09-2006, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
TV is a piece of equipment, like a knife. With a knife you could either stab your neighbour or peel a potato.
:w:
I prefer to use a knife to remove the skin from potatoes. Less messy. When you use a knife to remove the skin of neighbors it really makes a mess.
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Fishman
07-09-2006, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Panatella
I prefer to use a knife to remove the skin from potatoes. Less messy. When you use a knife to remove the skin of neighbors it really makes a mess.
:sl:
Lol!
:w:
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SirZubair
07-09-2006, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
TV is a piece of equipment, like a knife. With a knife you could either stab your neighbour or peel a potato. Same with TV. You can either use it to show today's bad programs or use it to broadcast Islamic material, like Deedat's debates or an Islamic channel.
:w:
"TV is like a chicken drumstick. If you cook it well,you can enjoy eating it and your body will benefit from it. If you don't cook it well,you might still enjoy it,but the end result will be that you'll have food poisoning.." mine is better :p :p

(jokes :p )
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czgibson
07-09-2006, 07:00 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by muslim_friend
>>The shooting also resulted in an increased emphasis on school security, and a moral panic aimed at goth culture, heavy metal music, social pariahs, the use of pharmaceutical anti-depressants by teenagers, violent films and violent video games

:?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but let me say again: TV is not mentioned here.

I believe anything that contradicts the laws, our religion has laid down for us to follow, must be boycotted. What have scientists got to do with this? :? yet again, if this science contradicts Islamic belief in any way, it must be boycotted by muslims.Eg:Theory of evolution, Conservation of energy.
OK, so elements of science contradict Islamic belief. Elements of TV broadcasting contravene Islamic belief. Some Muslims say that for this reason all TV should be boycotted by Muslims. Using the same reasoning, surely all science should therefore be boycotted by Muslims?

But what about young kids, who are too young to understand right from wrong?
Are you thinking of kids who don't have parents or guardians to censor their TV intake?

And as for your remarks about conservation of energy, I can't believe that Islam goes against stopping the biggest man-made threat the world is facing today. If global warming continues, then thousands of our brothers and sisters would die. We would no longer be able to perform Hajj because there would be no aeroplane fuel left. The Middle East would starve. I'm sure conserving energy does not go against Islam.
I think that somewhere along the line people have got confused about what the phrase 'conservation of energy' actually means. It does not refer to storing up energy for the future (although I admit it does look very like it should mean that. Kids get that question wrong on science exam papers all the time).

It actually refers to the physical principle that energy cannot be created or destroyed. This apparently contradicts the Islamic belief regarding the creation of the universe. However, cosmologists' current best explanation for this, the Big Bang theory, also contradicts this principle. This is why the starting point of the universe is known as a 'singularity', that is, a point where the normal laws of physics do not appear to apply.

Peace
Reply

Fishman
07-09-2006, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
It actually refers to the physical principle that energy cannot be created or destroyed. This apparently contradicts the Islamic belief regarding the creation of the universe. However, cosmologists' current best explanation for this, the Big Bang theory, also contradicts this principle. This is why the starting point of the universe is known as a 'singularity', that is, a point where the normal laws of physics do not appear to apply.

Peace
:sl:
thanks for clearing that up!
:w:
Reply

muslim_friend
07-10-2006, 03:39 AM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by czgibson
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but let me say again: TV is not mentioned here.
One of the reasons for the school shootings is "Violent Films", as you have mentioned.. Don't kids watch violent fims on TV?

OK, so elements of science contradict Islamic belief. Elements of TV broadcasting contravene Islamic belief. Some Muslims say that for this reason all TV should be boycotted by Muslims. Using the same reasoning, surely all science should therefore be boycotted by Muslims?
Only some elements of science must be boycotted, as i mentioned what they are.. i think there are more.

Are you thinking of kids who don't have parents or guardians to censor their TV intake?
No, i'm talking about the average kid with a mom, dad, and a house.. You can see for yourself that TV has made a huge cultural impact, this impact as i am pointing is unfortunately a negative one. Kids who grow up to be adoloscents worship pop stars and sportspeople, trying to be like them in every way.the girls dress up in the most attractive way.. who taught them this? Don't tell me it was their parents. If i can include 'Films' as part of Tv, then i can tell you that many hollywood animation movies(for kids) have content that is not appropriate.. I do agree that Parents will try their utmost to guide their children, but that isn't working.. you can't see that in western society.

I think that somewhere along the line people have got confused about what the phrase 'conservation of energy' actually means. It does not refer to storing up energy for the future (although I admit it does look very like it should mean that. Kids get that question wrong on science exam papers all the time).
LOL. Sorry mate, was in a sleepy mood last night.. i see, i've confused a few members here.Law of Conservation of energy.. "Energy can neither be created nor destryed, but can be converted from one form to another in a equivalent amount".. This contradicts Islamic belief.As Allah is the creator of all things and the destryoer of all things. Basically, it does suit the physics of this world..
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czgibson
07-10-2006, 04:47 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by muslim_friend
One of the reasons for the school shootings is "Violent Films", as you have mentioned.. Don't kids watch violent fims on TV?
I suppose they could, if their parents let them. The thing is, though, films are originally shown in cinemas - should cinemas therefore be boycotted too?

Only some elements of science must be boycotted, as i mentioned what they are.. i think there are more.
OK - this is my point. Why shouldn't only some elements of TV be boycotted?
No, i'm talking about the average kid with a mom, dad, and a house.. You can see for yourself that TV has made a huge cultural impact, this impact as i am pointing is unfortunately a negative one. Kids who grow up to be adoloscents worship pop stars and sportspeople, trying to be like them in every way.
Anything wrong with that?
the girls dress up in the most attractive way..
Anything wrong with that?

If i can include 'Films' as part of Tv, then i can tell you that many hollywood animation movies(for kids) have content that is not appropriate..
That's clearly an opinion. Can you share any examples?

I do agree that Parents will try their utmost to guide their children, but that isn't working.. you can't see that in western society.
I'm not sure what you mean here.

LOL. Sorry mate, was in a sleepy mood last night.. i see, i've confused a few members here.Law of Conservation of energy.. "Energy can neither be created nor destryed, but can be converted from one form to another in a equivalent amount".. This contradicts Islamic belief.As Allah is the creator of all things and the destryoer of all things. Basically, it does suit the physics of this world..
What suits the physics of this world? Clearly not Islam, if the principle of conservation of energy is in conflict with it.

Peace
Reply

muslim_friend
07-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Peace be unto those who receive guidance

Greetings,

Originally Posted by czgibson
I suppose they could, if their parents let them. The thing is, though, films are originally shown in cinemas - should cinemas therefore be boycotted too?
Nope, i'm talking about boycotting 'those' particular movies only.

OK - this is my point. Why shouldn't only some elements of TV be boycotted?
Hey!! this is the point i've been trying to make all along.. if i am an influential person, i'd want a ban on every channel that fits the category of Immorailty/Violence.

No, i'm talking about the average kid with a mom, dad, and a house.. You can see for yourself that TV has made a huge cultural impact, this impact as i am pointing is unfortunately a negative one. Kids who grow up to be adoloscents worship pop stars and sportspeople, trying to be like them in every way.
Anything wrong with that?
For muslims, yes. hero worship is forbidden in Islam.. i'm not talking about admiring someone or the other..i mean 'worshipping' in the sense, they go crazy over these people. which kind of society would have teenagers crying to have a glimpse of their rock stars? .. This is just one example of how MTV has helped kids throw away their priorities and responsibilities in life and given them an all new purpose.

the girls dress up in the most attractive way..
Anything wrong with that?
not only will it will lead to fornification but the criterion for 'respect' among these teenage girls will eventually change.

That's clearly an opinion. Can you share any examples?
Yes why not? "Antz" and "Titan A.E" ..

I do agree that Parents will try their utmost to guide their children, but that isn't working.. you can't see that in western society.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
What i mean is, when the source of the problem exists, then by no means can its ill-effects be removed permanently.

What suits the physics of this world? Clearly not Islam, if the principle of conservation of energy is in conflict with it.
Don't forget that, according to our belief, the physics that surrounds us is only a creation. but this is off-topic anyway.

Conclusion:Tv, though it has its benefits, has 'evils' that far outnumber its benefits.. i'm not sayin "ban TV".. instead we should ban some of its content totally. these can include music, movies(almost all of them are of the horrible type today), the rest are fine in my opinion such as the NEWS and Sports. this is just my opinion.
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Muezzin
07-10-2006, 06:21 PM
Personally, I've never understood why people can't just turn the TV off when they see (or sense) something inappropriate...
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-10-2006, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Personally, I've never understood why people can't just turn the TV off when they see (or sense) something inappropriate...
lol because that way the TV would never be turned on ;D ;D

lol naa seriously tho lol, only islamic channels and shows are ok :)
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------
07-10-2006, 06:26 PM
Yup.......like QTV :)
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Muezzin
07-10-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
lol because that way the TV would never be turned on ;D ;D
Frankly, I don't watch much TV (apart from the News) now that House has finished. And when I did, that was like the only show I watched. Forget haraam - most of the stuff on TV is crap anyway! :p
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muslim_friend
07-11-2006, 02:09 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Personally, I've never understood why people can't just turn the TV off when they see (or sense) something inappropriate...
If almost everything on TV is inappropriate, under what circumstances are we forced to keep the instrument in our living room, in the first place? :) .. why not throw it away or use it as a stool?

You and i can keep our nafs under control. Right now, i've removed all the haraam channels and replaced them with NEWS channels(almost all of them). I have a little sister in the house and i don't want taking risks..

wassalaam.
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Asyur an-Nagi
07-11-2006, 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
TV is a piece of equipment, like a knife. With a knife you could either stab your neighbour or peel a potato. Same with TV. You can either use it to show today's bad programs or use it to broadcast Islamic material, like Deedat's debates or an Islamic channel.
:w:
sure.
we don't have to swallow and work our jaw for everything on tv. Allah gives us brain to choose, to compare, to refuse, and to agree. if we totally avoid tv, maybe we avoid some things we actually need. just be wise and a bit deep thinking on something.
don't burn a hut to kill a rat.
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