UN expert: US, EU, Russia and other states ignore Israeli rights abuses

[michele]

he Human Rights Council this afternoon held its first special session to consider the latest escalation of the situation in the Palestinian and other occupied Arab territories. The Council will vote tomorrow morning on a draft resolution.

The special session was held following a request made by 21 Council members at the end of the first session of the Council, which concluded on Friday, 30 June. The request for the special session, presented by Tunisia, was supported by the following Member States: Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brazil, China, Cuba, Gabon, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Malaysia, Mali, Morocco, Pakistan, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, and Sri Lanka.

John Dugard, Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, said that he had visited the occupied Palestinian territory in mid-June, shortly before the present crisis erupted, but then, too, the human rights situation had been appalling. In the past week the situation had worsened. In Gaza, people were without water, food was scarce and medicines were running out. Operation "Summer Rains", as Israel had cynically labelled its siege of Gaza, offended the prohibition on collective punishment. It likewise violated the prohibition on "measures of intimidation and terrorism" contained in Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, while the arrest of Hamas Cabinet ministers and legislators seemed to constitute the "taking of hostages" prohibited in Article 34....MORE....


electronic intifada

[michele]

Additional quote from text from above article:

Mr. Dugard had two final points: first, it had to be reiterated that it was not the Hamas Government that was being punished, but the Palestinian people; second, there was a desperate need for a minimum respect for human rights and humanitarian law. That could only be achieved by a resumption of peace talks. There was a need for honest brokers in the present crisis; the European Union and the United Nations were the bodies best qualified for such a task. Whether they could act as honest brokers while remaining members of the Quartet, however, was questionable.

that of course seem blatantly obvious.

[Geronimo]

Do you realize the worst HR offenders are on the Human Rights Council? It's a joke. Electronic infitada, the name in itself oozes agenda.

[michele]

Do you realize the worst HR offenders are on the Human Rights Council?

I will agree that human's rights abuses are not exclusive to Israel. I will agree that there are representatives on the Human rights council that are indeed abusers of human rights, that in and of itself is pretty obvious and would include the US, Russia, EU, etc.

It's a joke.

the joke for me is most all human rights abuses are ignored unless of course addressing them serves any given nation states political agenda.

Electronic infitada, the name in itself oozes agenda.

and from your perspective, what agenda would that be? That they monitor the Israeli Palestinian conflict from the Palestinian perspective?

all that said, it doesn't nullify the breaches in Humanitarian law that Israel is currently guilty of as the state now outwardly mounts its own brand of state sponsored terrorism. Do you suggest it is ignored completely?

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[Geronimo]

I will agree that human's rights abuses are not exclusive to Israel. I will agree that there are representatives on the Human rights council that are indeed abusers of human rights, that in and of itself is pretty obvious and would include the US, Russia, EU, etc.




the joke for me is most all human rights abuses are ignored unless of course addressing them serves any given nation states political agenda.



and from your perspective, what agenda would that be? That they monitor the Israeli Palestinian conflict from the Palestinian perspective?

all that said, it doesn't nullify the breaches in Humanitarian law that Israel is currently guilty of as the state now outwardly mounts its own brand of state sponsored terrorism. Do you suggest it is ignored completely?

Outside of the US who supports Israel? Until HAMAS was elected European support was squarely behind the Palestinians. How many UN resolutions have been brought against the Palestinians? I can name more than a few times they have violated the human rights of the Israeli people.

[michele]

Outside of the US who supports Israel? Until HAMAS was elected European support was squarely behind the Palestinians. How many UN resolutions have been brought against the Palestinians? I can name more than a few times they have violated the human rights of the Israeli people.

what are you arguing? that the world (and/or the UN ) favors the Palestinians? and that the world picks on Israel? Only the US supports Israel? Have you read much history since the Mandate was established? I will wait for your answer before laughing out loud.

Of course the UN has issued resolutions against Palestinian terrorism have you looked to see which ones. As for the EU being squarely behind the Palestinians before Hamas was elected that is highly debatable wherein we would need to distinquish between lipservice and support and we would have to also believe that support of a Palestinian state and gaining justice for the Palestinians could be equated to being anti-Israel. the two are mutually exclusive.

[michele]

oh and you didn't answer my question as to what is so off about what you have called the "agenda" of electronic intifada. I am waiting. Are you opposed to the Palestinians having a perspective and/or a history of their own. Do you feel that Israel's use of blatant collective punishment should go undocumented? Would you find it more palable if an American scholar or organization documented the violation instead?

Really I don't get where you are coming from.

[Geronimo]

what are you arguing? that the world (and/or the UN ) favors the Palestinians? and that the world picks on Israel? Only the US supports Israel? Have you read much history since the Mandate was established? I will wait for your answer before laughing out loud

Have you? During the British Mandate all Grand Muftis had to be approved by the High Commisioner of Britian. One such mufti was Amin al-Husayni. Al-Huysani started a riot in 1920 in which 6 Jews were killed and do you know what happened? The British pardoned him and made him Grand Mufti of Palestine. He then proceeded to enlist muslims to join the wafen SS and carry out Hitlers "Final Solution". Not one thing was done to sanction al-Huysani til he gather up troops to attack British interest in Iraq. How many countries came to the defense of Israel during the 1948 War? Once again it wasn't until the Suez issue that anyone stepped up to even lay a hand of help. Look at the monetary contributions each people get? How much money do Europe give Israel? How much do they give the Pals until HAMAS?

oh and you didn't answer my question as to what is so off about what you have called the "agenda" of electronic intifada. I am waiting. Are you opposed to the Palestinians having a perspective and/or a history of their own. Do you feel that Israel's use of blatant collective punishment should go undocumented? Would you find it more palable if an American scholar or organization documented the violation instead?

If I showed up with an article from Foxnews wouldn't it get dismissed out of hand? As for collective punishment isn't that what the Pals are doing to Israel? I mean what did kids at a birthday party do to anyone? I'm sure you can come up with a list of Israeli Human Rights abuses but I bet I can come up with a list just as long of Pals. No ones hands is white so this disgust should be directed at both sides.

[Trumble]

As for the EU being squarely behind the Palestinians before Hamas was elected that is highly debatable wherein we would need to distinquish between lipservice and support and we would have to also believe that support of a Palestinian state and gaining justice for the Palestinians could be equated to being anti-Israel. the two are mutually exclusive.

Supporting the establishment of a Palestinian state (and "gaining justice for the Palestinians") does NOT equate to being "anti-Israel". Just "anti- some elements of Israeli policy".

Incidently, the "lipservice" entails far more than any Arab or muslim nation (or group of nations) has ever given them.

[michele]

Have you? During the British Mandate all Grand Muftis had to be approved by the High Commisioner of Britian. One such mufti was Amin al-Husayni. Al-Huysani started a riot in 1920 in which 6 Jews were killed and do you know what happened? The British pardoned him and made him Grand Mufti of Palestine. He then proceeded to enlist muslims to join the wafen SS and carry out Hitlers "Final Solution". Not one thing was done to sanction al-Huysani til he gather up troops to attack British interest in Iraq. How many countries came to the defense of Israel during the 1948 War? Once again it wasn't until the Suez issue that anyone stepped up to even lay a hand of help. Look at the monetary contributions each people get? How much money do Europe give Israel? How much do they give the Pals until HAMAS?

If I showed up with an article from Foxnews wouldn't it get dismissed out of hand? As for collective punishment isn't that what the Pals are doing to Israel? I mean what did kids at a birthday party do to anyone? I'm sure you can come up with a list of Israeli Human Rights abuses but I bet I can come up with a list just as long of Pals. No ones hands is white so this disgust should be directed at both sides.

whoa nelly.... a selective synopsis doesn't make your argument. I haven't the time to address each of your selective points at the moment, but I shall return later to do so. and just for the record then you indeed are arguing that Israel she has no friends but for the US. that is mighty simplistic of you. Gee was it the US that put forth the Balfour Declaration. Was it US guns behind which the Zionist displaced and expanded up until they decided it was best to drive the british out with terrorism.

I will be back to address your points in kind.... however you have got to be kidding with your attempt to distort the very definition of Collective Punishment with your spurious suggestion that the Palestinians are collectively punishing the Israelis. There is guerrilla warfare and use of terrorism, both sides engage however there is just one side in a position to collectively punish.

tell me what infrastructural damage has any of the Palestinian militant groups COMBINED unfurled upon Israel with the compliance of western powers in the past 30 years or so that can compare with that unfurled upon the terroritories in just during this intifada? How many Israelis have the Palestinian militant groups ethnically cleansed since 1948? how many of Israeli government officials, or UN peacekeepers have the Palestinian militant groups assassinated or jailed? and last but not least when was the last time the PA or the PLO or Hamas or the PFLP withheld food, water and medical aid from Israel after completely locking it down.

I suggest you look up the definition of collective punishment by the geneval codes. oh but yes out of the almost one million Arab Palestinians Christian and Muslim somehow you found a way to get in the standard fare talking point about the Nazi Mufti...

tell me are you as up on the zionist pact with the third reich?

I will go through your post again later.

[Geronimo]

whoa nelly.... a selective synopsis doesn't make your argument. I haven't the time to address each of your selective points at the moment, but I shall return later to do so. and just for the record then you indeed are arguing that Israel she has no friends but for the US. that is mighty simplistic of you. Gee was it the US that put forth the Balfour Declaration. Was it US guns behind which the Zionist displaced and expanded up until they decided it was best to drive the british out with terrorism.

I will be back to address your points in kind.... however you have got to be kidding with your attempt to distort the very definition of Collective Punishment with your spurious suggestion that the Palestinians are collectively punishing the Israelis. There is guerrilla warfare and use of terrorism, both sides engage however there is just one side in a position to collectively punish.

tell me what infrastructural damage has any of the Palestinian militant groups COMBINED unfurled upon Israel with the compliance of western powers in the past 30 years or so that can compare with that unfurled upon the terroritories in just during this intifada? How many Israelis have the Palestinian militant groups ethnically cleansed since 1948? how many of Israeli government officials, or UN peacekeepers have the Palestinian militant groups assassinated or jailed? and last but not least when was the last time the PA or the PLO or Hamas or the PFLP withheld food, water and medical aid from Israel after completely locking it down.

I suggest you look up the definition of collective punishment by the geneval codes. oh but yes out of the almost one million Arab Palestinians Christian and Muslim somehow you found a way to get in the standard fare talking point about the Nazi Mufti...

tell me are you as up on the zionist pact with the third reich?

I will go through your post again later.

For the love of God don't tell me you are one of those people that believe that Elders of Zion crap. It has been disproven thousands of times. You are talking about how oppressive Israel is to the Pals let's talk about how they fared in Lebanon, SA, Kuwait and Iraq. Let's talk about all the Israeli-Arabs that live in peace inside of Israel. Muslims just use the Pals as an excuse for their hatred of Jews. They wouldn't spit on a Pal if they saw them on fire in the street.

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Muslims just use the Pals as an excuse for the hatred of Jews? Wow. That wasn't narrow minded at all.

[michele]

For the love of God don't tell me you are one of those people that believe that Elders of Zion crap. It has been disproven thousands of times.

what the ..... Oh I see y ou can't respond to my last post so you have decided instead to introduce a strawman. There is nothing in my last post that comes even remotely close to suggesting any reference to the Protocols of the Elder's of Zion.

You are talking about how oppressive Israel is to the Pals let's talk about how they fared in Lebanon, SA, Kuwait and Iraq. Let's talk about all the Israeli-Arabs that live in peace inside of Israel. Muslims just use the Pals as an excuse for their hatred of Jews. They wouldn't spit on a Pal if they saw them on fire in the street.

oh yeah anything but to talk about the Israeli occupation and its oppressions. I see because Arabs in Israel are treated at times better in Israel (even with second class citizenship) than other Arab countries have treated Palestinians this somehow means Israel can proceed with impunity? this somehow erases Israel's inability to recognize the identity, history and sovereignty of the Palestinian People.

Seems to me you will go the long way around jumping from one non-sequitir to the next to just get round the fact that Israel is responsible for the oppression of a whole people..... QUICK LET'S LOOK OVER THERE. let's look at lebanon, let's look at the nazi's... let's look at Jordan ..... look at the horror in the sudan.... let's look everywhere but at Israel.

whatever. In the meantime there is nothing about the current observances as mentioned in the article I posted, regarding Israel's current use of collective punishment and her underlying intent to target the whole of the Palestinian people hidden behind the PR on her "war on hamas" that is either propaganda or false.

I get you don't wish to discuss it thought. thanks for playing.

[michele]

I must say as quickly as I am writing these posts without proofing them before I submit them I haven't done all that bad.... but for this last sentence I needed to change the word thought with the word though. I still don't have editing privileges.

I get you don't wish to discuss it though

[Trumble]

I still don't have editing privileges.

Nearly at your fifty posts. :happy: I found it really annoying not being able to edit typos as well; it just seems such a pointless restriction on new forum members.

[Geronimo]

what the ..... Oh I see y ou can't respond to my last post so you have decided instead to introduce a strawman. There is nothing in my last post that comes even remotely close to suggesting any reference to the Protocols of the Elder's of Zion.



oh yeah anything but to talk about the Israeli occupation and its oppressions. I see because Arabs in Israel are treated at times better in Israel (even with second class citizenship) than other Arab countries have treated Palestinians this somehow means Israel can proceed with impunity? this somehow erases Israel's inability to recognize the identity, history and sovereignty of the Palestinian People.

Seems to me you will go the long way around jumping from one non-sequitir to the next to just get round the fact that Israel is responsible for the oppression of a whole people..... QUICK LET'S LOOK OVER THERE. let's look at lebanon, let's look at the nazi's... let's look at Jordan ..... look at the horror in the sudan.... let's look everywhere but at Israel.

whatever. In the meantime there is nothing about the current observances as mentioned in the article I posted, regarding Israel's current use of collective punishment and her underlying intent to target the whole of the Palestinian people hidden behind the PR on her "war on hamas" that is either propaganda or false.

I get you don't wish to discuss it thought. thanks for playing.

I'll lay it out in plain English. Is Israel heavy handed? Yes. Do I blame them? No. It has been war ever since the 1920's with Israel fighting for their life. Now that Israel has the upper hand people want to call a timeout. That don't fly with me. I'm from the school of don't ask for quarter because none will be given

[Geronimo]

what the ..... Oh I see y ou can't respond to my last post so you have decided instead to introduce a strawman. There is nothing in my last post that comes even remotely close to suggesting any reference to the Protocols of the Elder's of Zion.



oh yeah anything but to talk about the Israeli occupation and its oppressions. I see because Arabs in Israel are treated at times better in Israel (even with second class citizenship) than other Arab countries have treated Palestinians this somehow means Israel can proceed with impunity? this somehow erases Israel's inability to recognize the identity, history and sovereignty of the Palestinian People.

Seems to me you will go the long way around jumping from one non-sequitir to the next to just get round the fact that Israel is responsible for the oppression of a whole people..... QUICK LET'S LOOK OVER THERE. let's look at lebanon, let's look at the nazi's... let's look at Jordan ..... look at the horror in the sudan.... let's look everywhere but at Israel.

whatever. In the meantime there is nothing about the current observances as mentioned in the article I posted, regarding Israel's current use of collective punishment and her underlying intent to target the whole of the Palestinian people hidden behind the PR on her "war on hamas" that is either propaganda or false.

I get you don't wish to discuss it thought. thanks for playing.

I'll lay it out in plain English. Is Israel heavy handed? Yes. Do I blame them? No. It has been war ever since the 1920's with Israel fighting for their life. Now that Israel has the upper hand people want to call a timeout. That don't fly with me. I'm from the school of don't ask for quarter because none will be given

[michele]

I'll lay it out in plain English. Is Israel heavy handed? Yes. Do I blame them? NO

because oh boo hoo hoo poor israel, as you seem to imply that no one likes her and she has had to stand alone we will forget the enoromous amounts of AID in money and arms israel has received from well more than the US over the last half a century. And of course we dare not mention the imposition the Zionist endeavor was on the fellahin... let's focus on the effendi land sales..... to help bolster the misnomer that Israel is the victim.

Whose guns did Jewish Immigrants come in behind? The Great British Empire but I suppose that doesn't count as help because EGAD they too were quasi concerned for the welfare of those in Palestine as per one of the most ignored clauses in the Balfour Agreement which was violated by the earliest Zionist facilated displacement of the Fellahin. We need instead to blame the Brits because well they shoudn't have responded so illogically to zionist terrrorism and should have probably just signed the Yishevs petition to transfer the lot off the whole of Palestine which is what was inconspicuously being petitioned for. And of course we will ignore the fact that the dispossession and the intent to transfer was indeed the genesis of the conflict and from the perspective of the indigenous both Christian and Muslim was an aggression. Oh that wasn't the Zionist leaderships fault though NO..... that reaction to the aggressive nature of dispossession was wholly due to Judenhass (according to you I presume). The Palestinian fellahin weren't concerned with their future welfare ..... nah that couldn't have been what provocated aggressive feeling. Let's factor that out altogether, close our eyes in utter blindness and chant in unison with you...... IT WAS ALL DUE TO JEW HATRED.

Who then helped arm Israel before the war of Independence and the Palestinian Catastrophe (that I presume you deny occurred OR is it that "the Arabs" caused that as well) besides the British? That would be Stalin. Oh but he wasn't really helping the Zionists no.... let's kick that gift horse in right in the mouth, because it wouldn't support your initial statement that the US is Israel's only friend (as if History only began in 2001.)

Who helped Israel build her Nuclear Reactors? that would be France. "A nuclear reactor and plutonium production facility was built by France" (see link below) but we won't count that as any help.... no because they are also sympathetic to the Palestinian perspective....and one can't be sympathetic to both sides. It appears in your eyes that nullifies unwavering support of Israel right or wrong.

There was also considerable collaboration between Israel and Dutch Apartheid South Africa. But I suppose that can't be considered help because well it falls more into a business category soooooooo you can just continue to whine about Israel having only one friend.

Iran and Israel were on friendly terms for a while as well. Mossad trained Iranian operatives for Savak and Iran even supplied Israel with Oil.

link[/URL]]
France was Israel's principal arms supplier, and as instability spread in France's colonies in North Africa, Israel provided valuable intelligence obtained from its contacts with sephardic Jews in those countries. The two nations even collaborated (along with Britain) in planning and staging the joint Suez-Sinai operation against Egypt in October 1956 [...] Considerable nuclear collaboration between Israel and South Africa seems to have developed around 1967 and continued through the 70s and 80s. During this period SA was Israel's primary supplier of uranium for Dimona.

Whilst Israel also supplied the Apartheid regime with arms.


oh that was a long time ago..... we might as well forget that and factor it out altogether it doesn't support your inference that Israel has no friends. only the US who has worked both sides of the fence as well, but let's not get into that it for it would take the discussion out of the black and white.

And that is just me scratching the surface.

there was considerable trade between Germany and Israel indeed the pact between the Zionists and the third reich helped break the international boycott against hitler which only helped enable Hitlers rise. It was a complex and difficult aligns that broke the Zionist Authorities in Palestine in two.... But indeed Germany can be credited with having also helped the development of the earlier Settlements. oooooo but shhhhhhhhh we won't go there.

No. It has been war ever since the 1920's with Israel fighting for their life. Now that Israel has the upper hand people want to call a timeout. That don't fly with me.

Yes that explains why all the facts aren't really all that important to you perhaps why you prefer to regurgitate what are well worn out cliches on this topic. And of course blame the Arabs because according to you you won't blame Israel it serves your agenda best to blame the Arabs and all other world powers beside the US for boo hoo poor Israel. You can correct me if I have misinterpreted you in any way. It seems you interpret any support for the Palestinians as some kind of ding on Israel. That speaks volumes.

I'm from the school of don't ask for quarter because none will be given

Hell the Yeshiv leadership whilst petitioning for transfer attempted not only to get Britain to agree to it, but attempted to find ways to have Britain pay for it. so while you might be from that school, Israeli Leadership certainly aren't they stretch there hands out to all quarters and have received millions and billions through out the years and still her diehard supporters (right or wrong) cry boo hoo hoo.


I have to prepare dinner now. Have a pleasant evening.

[michele]

Supporting the establishment of a Palestinian state (and "gaining justice for the Palestinians") does NOT equate to being "anti-Israel". Just "anti- some elements of Israeli policy".

yes I know that was my point. I guess it might have been written poorly.

Incidently, the "lipservice" entails far more than any Arab or muslim nation (or group of nations) has ever given them.

the Palestinians have fallen through the cracks already in this very regard. I think the conflict serves many agendas both in the ME and within the International community. There are so many different nationalisms that expressed themselves during Mandate and the legitimate Arab states as they all squared off to expand their own terroritory, along with the covert and rarely discussed collusions between Jordan and the British who attempted to thward the a push for Greater Syria, for example.... there has always in some way been some wedge that has acted as an obstacle to the creation of a Palestinian state. With the Palestinian Leadership shooting themselves in the foot every now and again.

There is blame to go around. Be that as it may it doesn't nullify ISrael's transgressions which the Western world does indeed help them to deny, especially now the US.

[Geronimo]

Who said I don't condemn some of the things Israel do? There are no clean people in this confl... you know what forget it becuase I'm gonna end up saying something that would get me banned considering I already have strikes against me.