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Dahir
07-07-2006, 03:19 PM
The "Islamic World?"

What comes to mind?

Iraq.
Bosnia.
Somalia.
Afghanistan.
Pakistan.
Turkey.
Bangledesh.

What really DOES come to mind?

A pack of 'backwards,' 'third world' nations? A Union of the dark-age nations? Yes. What happened to the Ottomans, Safavids, and Mughals? Their descendants are still around, yet they don't carry the torch, our historic figures remain in history, yet we don't emulate them.

Simple task. The "Islamic World," and you know where you are, has to pull things together. Create a comprehensive list on how to 'get things back in order,' because this just may be a last chance...
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MUNIRAH
07-07-2006, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
The "Islamic World?"

Simple task. The "Islamic World," and you know where you are, has to pull things together. Create a comprehensive list on how to 'get things back in order,' because this just may be a last chance...

:? I am lost! what exactly r u sayin we should do:? :?
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Ghazi
07-07-2006, 03:37 PM
:sl:

I'm looking to bring the islamic state back all I need is a plan!
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Angel
07-07-2006, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

I'm looking to bring the islamic state back all I need is a plan!
huh:? and how do u do dat bro i mean bring back da islamic state! u cant do it all by ur self u would need alot of pple and a very good plan super great
plan
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Ghazi
07-07-2006, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by Angel
huh:? and how do u do dat bro i mean bring back da islamic state! u cant do it all by ur self u would need alot of pple and a very good plan super great
plan
:sl:

Start a new society somewhere new far away, and implament the sharia and invite people to live there if they want to. It's quit simple I'm suprised someone hasn't done it yet.
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Dahir
07-07-2006, 04:38 PM
Start a new society somewhere new far away, and implament the sharia and invite people to live there if they want to. It's quit simple I'm suprised someone hasn't done it yet.
Yeah. I also had that thought once. Go buy the cheapest little island for $50 and start a new life, a new society, my own utopia. No one has done it yet because its impossible. Say, you create your own nation, weeks later, someone will invade you and take it from you, simple as that!
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Ghazi
07-07-2006, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
Yeah. I also had that thought once. Go buy the cheapest little island for $50 and start a new life, a new society, my own utopia. No one has done it yet because its impossible. Say, you create your own nation, weeks later, someone will invade you and take it from you, simple as that!
:sl:

$50 for an island what the... and secondly if anyone invades it's jihad it's possable all we need is a plan.
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Dahir
07-07-2006, 04:45 PM
$50 for an island what the
$50 USD = tons of Third World island money:giggling:
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Woodrow
07-07-2006, 04:53 PM
There is so much depth in small statements. Most of it comes from our limited perception as to what we are to be related to what we were. I think there are two seperate questions and both questions are overlappeing.

One question is "What can we do to restore the Ummah to what it was?" The other question is "What can we do to bring the ummah to what it
it is to become?"

The final desire of both is the same, but both quests require different tools and different approaches. I think we are in the transistion stage. Although many of us may be trying for the same goals, we have difficulting in seeing the approaches used by our brothers and sisters. We need to look and see what is the best future and what is the best approach using todays available tools.

The final goals will never change, but we do need to carefully examine and see what is the best means for todays conditions.

I think we need to view the actions of each of us and not so much criticize how we each differ in each part of the world, but see how our goals are similar.

If a man in Baghdad travels to Mecca he will have to take a different route then a man who travels from London. Perhaps we need to see that our role in the Ummah is not so much how we travel, but to assist each other in traveling.

A man living in London may have different needs and need to use different methods to achieve what a man living in Baghdad needs, in order for both to achieve the same goal.

We need to always keep the Qur'an close, not just close physicaly, but close in our hearts and minds. We need to know and understand how it applies at this moment, in this place and specificaly for each of us.
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Dahir
07-07-2006, 04:59 PM
If a man in Baghdad travels to Mecca he will have to take a different route then a man who travels from London. Perhaps we need to see that our role in the Ummah is not so much how we travel, but to assist each other in traveling.
Wonderfully put! But, the remaining question is? Will the two men ever realize their importance to one another? They are both ignorant to their strengths.
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michele
07-07-2006, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Start a new society somewhere new far away, and implament the sharia and invite people to live there if they want to. It's quit simple I'm suprised someone hasn't done it yet.

hmmm on the surface while that might sound like a plan.... isn't that what the zionist movement did in an attempt to solve Europe's Jewish Question? I suppose success depends upon what piece of land you choose for this plan.

If it is already inhabitated by people you don't want there or who don't wish to be under a Sharia authority...who will resist (as would be expected) then what? without an incredible amount of what is preceived to be backing from powers greater within the world community.... how would you propose sidestepping the result that has yet to resolve itself in Palestine?
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Woodrow
07-07-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
Wonderfully put! But, the remaining question is? Will the two men ever realize their importance to one another? They are both ignorant to their strengths.
Asalaamu Alaikum Dahir,

Woderfully said. I believe you just identified our greatest need. We need to see each others strengths and stop viewing what is different as weakness.
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Dahir
07-07-2006, 05:05 PM
how would you propose sidestepping the result that has yet to resolve itself in Palestine?
We were just dreaming there for a minute of a perfect world.;D

We didn't really recognize the real impact of the sitaution in its entirety.

We're like those kids in the classroom who laugh at war videos, and you are here to enlighten us about the casualties, the cost, the mental impact, and effects of war. Please, continue to enlighten us about our island situation.:thankyou:
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michele
07-08-2006, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
We were just dreaming there for a minute of a perfect world.;D

We didn't really recognize the real impact of the sitaution in its entirety.

We're like those kids in the classroom who laugh at war videos, and you are here to enlighten us about the casualties, the cost, the mental impact, and effects of war. Please, continue to enlighten us about our island situation.:thankyou:
you are kidding me right? Seeing as I have never had a gun in my hand, in my whole life I haven't known anyone that has owned a gun, I am not from a military family, and I can't say for sure what would provocate me picking up a gun either for or against my country or for or against any other country, not for anyone's understanding of God by whatever name; beyond the human toll of any endeavor which knowingly would require the sword and the corruptive factors that go along with living by the sword, I am not sure I can enlighten anyone about war.

From my perspective I can't even say I can relate to wishing to separate myself from humanity either. When any group wishes to live exclusively with their own people, unless the place chosen for their singular utopia is uninhabitated, one need only consult the history of conquest, to ascertain what the price generally is. I am not sure the endeavor of war requires much enlightenment. the pitfalls of conquest have been repeated throughout history. I can't say humanity has yet learned very much. When one considers a reality of the world is that it is filled with different cultures, races and religions, it seems to me that exclusivity isn't really the answer. As the risk is that one wrong just continues to beget another.

Live and let live is my motto. than again I am not a statesperson or a corporation, I don't glory in any form of cultural supremacy, and I certainly don't believe I possess knowledge of an absolute truth or the truest word.


ON EDIT: yey..... I have edit privileges. As such I wanted to add something to the bit I bolded above. What would require enlightenment would be to learn how to live (or to endeavor to find an island where a group can live in unity) without doing harm.
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Dahir
07-08-2006, 03:44 PM
you are kidding me right? Seeing as I have never had a gun in my hand, in my whole life I haven't known anyone that has owned a gun, I am not from a military family, and I can't say for sure what would provocate me picking up a gun either for or against my country or for or against any other country, not for anyone's understanding of God by whatever name; beyond the human toll of any endeavor which knowingly would require the sword and the corruptive factors that go along with living by the sword, I am not sure I can enlighten anyone about war.

From my perspective I can't even say I can relate to wishing to separate myself from humanity either. When any group wishes to live exclusively with their own people, unless the place chosen for their singular utopia is uninhabitated, one need only consult the history of conquest, to ascertain what the price generally is. I am not sure the endeavor of war requires much enlightenment. the pitfalls of conquest have been repeated throughout history. I can't say humanity has yet learned very much. When one considers a reality of the world is that it is filled with different cultures, races and religions, it seems to me that exclusivity isn't really the answer. As the risk is that one wrong just continues to beget another.

Live and let live is my motto. than again I am not a statesperson or a corporation, I don't glory in any form of cultural supremacy, and I certainly don't believe I possess knowledge of an absolute truth or the truest word.


ON EDIT: yey..... I have edit privileges. As such I wanted to add something to the bit I bolded above. What would require enlightenment would be to learn how to live (or to endeavor to find an island where a group can live in unity) without doing harm.
Michele, YOU, you're so worldly and intelligent, only if I was ever capable writing a paragraph, see, 5 bucks says I won't go further than 2 lines at most.
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searcheroftruth
07-08-2006, 04:25 PM
if anyone intends to start a islamic state count me in
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Angel
07-08-2006, 05:01 PM
yh i think u can mayb count me in, evn though i hav no idea how u guys can actualy do dat ,oh wel anywaz count me in:) :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-08-2006, 05:22 PM
me 2 :coolbro:
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GARY
07-08-2006, 06:16 PM
Hmmm. I don't think any new islamic states with sharia law are going to be starting up any time soon.
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Angel
07-08-2006, 08:44 PM
well never say no ,evr heard of dat saying:)
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searchingsoul
07-09-2006, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by searcheroftruth
if anyone intends to start a islamic state count me in

I think the USA would allow you start your own Islamic state as long as you secluded yourself from the rest of society and lived peacefully amongst yourselves. The Amish have done this for many years.
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amirah_87
07-09-2006, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Start a new society somewhere new far away, and implament the sharia and invite people to live there if they want to. It's quit simple I'm suprised someone hasn't done it yet.

ass salaamu alaykum

i might have just the place for you ..it's a little village in the middle east, sum of you might of heard of it already....the nice thing about it is your studying knowledge 24/7 with sum shyukh...it ain't that small anymore beacsue there's like a couple of thousand ppl there now ...and it's only for ppl who are seekin' ilm...it's also totally secluded from the dunya!!
it's a beatiful place mashaAllah...you feel like your in the days of the Prophet salalaahu 3aalayhi wasallam!!..subhaanallah :wub:

wa alaykum ass salaam
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Ghazi
07-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I think the USA would allow you start your own Islamic state as long as you secluded yourself from the rest of society and lived peacefully amongst yourselves. The Amish have done this for many years.
:sl:

USA? they're not even worth my time don't need no permission from them.
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Ghazi
07-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by amirah_87
ass salaamu alaykum

i might have just the place for you ..it's a little village in the middle east, sum of you might of heard of it already....the nice thing about it is your studying knowledge 24/7 with sum shyukh...it ain't that small anymore beacsue there's like a couple of thousand ppl there now ...and it's only for ppl who are seekin' ilm...it's also totally secluded from the dunya!!
it's a beatiful place mashaAllah...you feel like your in the days of the Prophet salalaahu 3aalayhi wasallam!!..subhaanallah :wub:

wa alaykum ass salaam
:sl:

where's this place you speak of?
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searchingsoul
07-09-2006, 12:06 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

USA? they're not even worth my time don't need no permission from them.
Sorry you feel that way. I still think that it's a good suggestion for anyone truly interested in living a life uncommon to the majority of society.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-09-2006, 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by amirah_87
ass salaamu alaykum

i might have just the place for you ..it's a little village in the middle east, sum of you might of heard of it already....the nice thing about it is your studying knowledge 24/7 with sum shyukh...it ain't that small anymore beacsue there's like a couple of thousand ppl there now ...and it's only for ppl who are seekin' ilm...it's also totally secluded from the dunya!!
it's a beatiful place mashaAllah...you feel like your in the days of the Prophet salalaahu 3aalayhi wasallam!!..subhaanallah :wub:

wa alaykum ass salaam
WHAT THE!!!! SUBHANALLAH!!

THIS IS MY DREAM!! WHERE IS THIS?? :? :? :?
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guyabano
07-09-2006, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Start a new society somewhere new far away, and implament the sharia and invite people to live there if they want to. It's quit simple I'm suprised someone hasn't done it yet.

hmm, sorry dude , but doesn't your ideology not look like the creation of Israel also ? "Start a new society somewhere new far away...."
And who say, you will have peaceful neighbours there? What if those native people of this "far away place" will claim their rights on "their" territory. Will you fight them back?
Hmmm, somehow, this remembers me the conflict between Palestins and Israelis.


I suggest you the Moon for your "far away place..."
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Ghazi
07-09-2006, 01:17 PM
:sl:

Far As I know the whole world is populated and at the beggining we won't need much land, for example if any muslim nation would just give us a bit of land fi sibililah then that would be great. The whole point of it is to start fresh and rule according to the sharia without any puppet goverments in place.
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czgibson
07-09-2006, 01:28 PM
Greetings,

Muslims have been talking about restoring the ummah for centuries now. I'd love to see it happen, simply because I'd really like to see what a sharia state looks like, having been told about how perfect it would be by many, many Muslims over the years. Unfortunately, I don't think the prospects are good.

I'm about to ask a very generalised question, involving implied stereotypes about Muslims, but I hope you'll agree that this question contains a grain of truth:

Would it be fair to say that the organisational skills of Muslims as a whole have been lacking for a long time, and that unless they can work together at a wholly improved cooperative level, then the common goal of a united ummah under sharia law will remain nothing more than a fantasy?

Sorry if anyone's offended by this, but I really think an entirely new game-plan is needed if Muslims are ever to achieve the goals they long for so keenly.

Peace
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Dahir
07-10-2006, 02:10 AM
Sorry if anyone's offended by this, but I really think an entirely new game-plan is needed if Muslims are ever to achieve the goals they long for so keenly.
No one's offended, we know its reality and we face it every day. Most of us are from Southern Asia, the ME, or Africa, so dissapointment is a part of life, and perfection and prosperity aren't frequent words in our world.
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Malaikah
07-10-2006, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Would it be fair to say that the organisational skills of Muslims as a whole have been lacking for a long time, and that unless they can work together at a wholly improved cooperative level, then the common goal of a united ummah under sharia law will remain nothing more than a fantasy?
I think youre missing something very important here. It has nothing to do with organisation skills or whatever, but almost everything to do with those in power (the leaders) caring more about this world and their own power, status and luxury than they do about Islam, the afterlife and the ummah. We have leaders who cant even take care of the people under their rule, let alone the whole ummah!!:offended:
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Dahir
07-10-2006, 02:27 AM
We have leaders who cant even take care of the people under their rule, let alone the whole ummah!!
Yeah. What the third world needs is Socialism, really needs it! Western values have ruined the world and created a strict caste system that makes India look like a communist republic.
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Woodrow
07-10-2006, 02:36 AM
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I think the USA would allow you start your own Islamic state as long as you secluded yourself from the rest of society and lived peacefully amongst yourselves. The Amish have done this for many years.
Not only the Amish but also the Mormons, Quakers and others. I know there are a few Christian Monastaries that are secluded from the rest of America. The Branch Davidians tried to do the same thing, but David Koresh made the error of purchasing large quantities of explosives and firearms which raised the question of "If he was planning a violent overthrow of the government" (Actual solid reason for police involvement was allegations of child abuse)

It would be legaly permissable for a group of Muslims to establish their own secluded community.
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czgibson
07-10-2006, 04:39 PM
Greetings cheese,
Originally Posted by cheese
I think youre missing something very important here. It has nothing to do with organisation skills or whatever, but almost everything to do with those in power (the leaders) caring more about this world and their own power, status and luxury than they do about Islam, the afterlife and the ummah. We have leaders who cant even take care of the people under their rule, let alone the whole ummah!!:offended:
I'm aware of that, and that thought was included in my question (or at least that was my intention). If you're not happy with your leaders, and everyone you know agrees, then why not organise yourselves to get rid of those leaders and put in place ones you would find more suitable?

Peace
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Dahir
07-11-2006, 02:20 AM
It would be legally permissable for a group of Muslims to establish their own secluded community.
That would be great, but I just think it to be a bit unreal. Firstly, many would cry foul, and that is understandable. Many secluded societies are constantly under surveillance and the the small community becomes a haven for tourists and jokes, so maybe its not something we can do within another society.
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searchingsoul
07-12-2006, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
That would be great, but I just think it to be a bit unreal. Firstly, man would cry foul, and that is understandable. Many secluded societies are constantly under surveillance and the the small community becomes a haven for tourists and jokes, so maybe its not something we can do within another society.
I don't think it's unreal at all. I've lived within close proximity of Amish communities and was never witness to anything negative.
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Dahir
07-14-2006, 07:08 AM
I've lived within close proximity of Amish communities
And are they reflective of a healthy society? No.

Same thing with Hawaii.

We assume that the local islanders are happy and so tranquil and, we see perfection.

When indeed, they've been stripped of land, outsourced, forced to work in low-paying jobs, and bribed to smile constantly to bring in tourism. It truly is a *bleep* life.
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Sis786
07-14-2006, 07:55 AM
Alhamdillah if the Islamic Countires are not THIRD WORLD countires and weak! In fact i personally feel that the Islamic Countires have a strong point and that is the people are NOT AFRAID TO DIE!

Look at Afghanistan come on serious it took the US and other forces no more that 3 weeks to take over when the War began and we all thought Oh no its over and the US president was similing EAR TO EAR thinking this was easy.

AND NOW almost 5 years On and whats happening the WAR is still on, Taliban fighters are still standing strong and this is all the the power of Allah SWT on thier side.

Pakistan has nuclear weapons and now maybe Iran and Saudi have oil infact most Islamic countires hold the oil!

We are in a situation that we can take the lead BUT INSTEAD these FOOLS WHO ARE OUR LEADERS! Only see green and the green is the colour on the US dollars!

All we these countries are now, are personal pets to Bush he has the leash and they follow his guide!

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT BUSH CANT READ SO WE HEADING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION!
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searchingsoul
07-14-2006, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
And are they reflective of a healthy society? No.

Same thing with Hawaii.

We assume that the local islanders are happy and so tranquil and, we see perfection.

When indeed, they've been stripped of land, outsourced, forced to work in low-paying jobs, and bribed to smile constantly to bring in tourism. It truly is a *bleep* life.
I fail to see how the Amish aren't reflective of a healthy society. They are not exploited.
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sameer
07-14-2006, 04:11 PM
if we were to form an islamic nation and live by shariah law... the question is....would our scholars egos be able to handle it or are u gona have ppl form one school of though? how would we deal with the difffernces in matters of Fiqh. I guess the right set of ppl it would be nice.

Personally I think only the mehdi can bring the muslims together again. How ever i pray that someones else mite be able to do it soon or b4 him....cause as u know the coming of the mehdi is a major sign of the coming of the last day.
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