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View Full Version : Pray or die, Somali sheikh tells Muslims By Guled Mohamed and Mohamed Ali Bile



Geronimo
07-10-2006, 02:37 PM
Pray or die, Somali sheikh tells Muslims By Guled Mohamed and Mohamed Ali Bile
Fri Jul 7, 10:37 AM ET

MOGADISHU (Reuters) - A leading Mogadishu sheikh said on Friday Muslims who do not pray five times a day should be put to death -- the latest sign of a fast-emerging hardline face to Somalia's newly-powerful Islamists.

The sheikh's statement -- which he confirmed to Reuters after it was broadcast on local media -- caused consternation among residents and will fuel foreign fears the Islamists are planning a hardline Taliban-style rule.

"He who does not perform prayer will be considered as infidel and our sharia law orders that person to be killed," said Sheikh Abdalla Ali, who runs a sharia court in the Somali capital which the Islamists took last month.

After kicking out the U.S.-backed warlords from Mogadishu on June 5, the Islamists took a large swathe of southern Somalia from the coastal capital to near the border with Ethiopia.

The Islamists initially sought to project a moderate face.

But in recent weeks, a hardline cleric on international terrorism lists has risen to their most senior position, strict sharia law such as whipping has been increasingly applied to criminals, and zealous militia have broken up World Cup viewing.

An elder in the Gubta area of Mogadishu, which is the base of the sheikh who pronounced on the prayers, said he did not approve of the strict sharia punishments, "We are very sorry at these kinds of activities," said Aw Ahmed Jilacow.

VIDEO "FABRICATED"

The Islamists' hardline leader, Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, said a video purportedly showing foreigners fighting alongside local militants was fabricated to discredit his movement, according to remarks published on Friday.

The potentially explosive tape circulating in Mogadishu this week appears to show foreign radicals alongside local Islamist militiamen during the recent battles against warlords.

If true, that would puncture the Islamists' claim to be an entirely home-grown movement, and fuel fears in Washington and elsewhere that their rise could make the Horn of Africa nation a magnet for Muslim extremists.

"This tape is fabricated and fraudulent and aims to harm the reputation of the Islamic Courts," Aweys, who is on a U.N. and U.S. terrorism list, told London-based Asharq al-Awsat daily.

Separately, Islamist militiamen faced off with a group vowing to fight Mogadishu's new rulers on Friday as residents feared another flare-up after a month of relative peace.

Manning checkpoints and driving pick-ups mounted with heavy guns, rival militias stood just 150 meters (yards) apart in the Kilometer Four area of Mogadishu.

Seeking to cling to an enclave in Kilometer Four, the warlord-linked Sa'ad sub-clan has boosted its defenses and refused to hand over weapons, as well as briefly seizing a vehicle from the pro-Islamist Ayr sub-clan, residents said.

"There are fears of fighting in Kilometre Four between Islamic Courts Union and the Sa'ad," resident Abdikarim Ahmed said. "The Sa'ad took over a vehicle owned by the Ayr and held it for several hours. They took several guns from the vehicle and later released it."

Warlord fighters linked to the Sa'ad last month vowed to regain territory they lost in the fight for Mogadishu, which killed 350 people in close range artillery duels.

(Additional reporting by Heba Kandil)
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searchingsoul
07-13-2006, 06:57 AM
Is this true? This is horrific.

I want to assume that this isn't true Islam. Am I correct?
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Dahir
07-13-2006, 07:04 AM
I want to assume that this isn't true Islam. Am I correct?
You are correct.

Its an un-Islamic act.

As is forced conversion, I see no difference.
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Malaikah
07-13-2006, 07:04 AM
:sl:

I dont know about prayers, but in the early times when the Islamic world was still ruled by righteous people (i.e. almost imediatly after the death of the prophet), the leader (abu bakr r.a.) waged war against certain tribes who were arrogant enough to stop paying the zakat (complusory charity) to the state becuase the leader was no longer the prophet (saw). They were considered apostates. and under Islamic law apostates get put to death.

But like i said i dont know if people not praying falls in to this category.
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Malaikah
07-13-2006, 07:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
You are correct.

Its an un-Islamic act.

As is forced conversion, I see no difference.
:sl:

no offense but i think you are over simplifing.

perhaps a more educated member could offer a reply.
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searchingsoul
07-13-2006, 07:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

I dont know about prayers, but in the early times when the Islamic world was still ruled by righteous people (i.e. almost imediatly after the death of the prophet), the leader (abu bakr r.a.) waged war against certain tribes who were arrogant enough to stop paying the zakat (complusory charity) to the state becuase the leader was no longer the prophet (saw). They were considered apostates. and under Islamic law apostates get put to death.

But like i said i dont know if people not praying falls in to this category.

Well, such a comparison seems valid to me. When you put it like this I can understand why those in Somalia think the way they do.
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Ghazi
07-13-2006, 10:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
You are correct.

Its an un-Islamic act.

As is forced conversion, I see no difference.
:sl:

These people are muslim so how can it be forced conversion?
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Daffodil
07-13-2006, 12:39 PM
Subhanallah, they kicking butt!!
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Umar001
07-13-2006, 12:44 PM
I hope truth provails falsehood before more innocent lives are shattered.
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Dawud_uk
07-13-2006, 04:55 PM
assalaamu alaykum,

in the hanafi madhab (followed by most eastern european, turkish and s.e asian muslims) the punishment for not praying in the mosque is house imprisonment and arrest until such a man agrees to start his prayers in the mosque again.

as for not praying at all...
it is clearly an act of kufr, that is an act of apostasy but i have never heard it being applied so blanketly before.

i am not saying it is wrong, and these men are learned scholars and they might well have their daleel (evidence) for their position.

as i understand it usually the person refusing to pray is warned, warned again, arrested and finally i understand that the islamic courts could declare such a person an apostate and put them to death if they still refuse.

the reason for this is there are many sayings of the prophet Muhammad (saws) warning against leaving salaat, perhaps one of the most famous when Muhammad (saws) said "the difference between kufr (disbelief) and imaan (faith) is the salaat"

so leaving prayer or indeed any of the major acts of islam can be an act of apostasy, maybe causing us to leave the fold of islam and people need to be warned against it.

personally i think the taliban did a lot of good and dont see the issue if foreign fighters went there and helped their brothers, after all the americans have been helping the foreign warlords so what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
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Isaac
07-13-2006, 04:58 PM
SubhanAllah. Well put brother. Im starting to really like your posts. What i mean they are very beneficial to me.

JazakAllah brother
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catmando
07-13-2006, 05:01 PM
Believers should have the choice to pray or not, according to their wishes. Killing them assures they will never pray again.

No free country would allow a religion to do this terrible thing to its members. The killers would be brought to justice.
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searchingsoul
07-13-2006, 06:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

These people are muslim so how can it be forced conversion?
Just because the Quran states that forced conversion is unacceptable doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
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searchingsoul
07-13-2006, 06:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Daffodil
Subhanallah, they kicking butt!!
So you view the actions in Somalia as a good thing?:rollseyes
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Ghazi
07-13-2006, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Just because the Quran states that forced conversion is unacceptable doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
:sl:

Go to any somali and call him a kafir he'll beat you unconcious or insult you, moqodishu is fast become a islamic state so if these people don't want to prey they can live among the kufar, or pay the Jiziya.
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wilberhum
07-13-2006, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Go to any somali and call him a kafir he'll beat you unconcious or insult you, moqodishu is fast become a islamic state so if these people don't want to prey they can live among the kufar, or pay the Jiziya.
So are you saying that all Somalis' are violent Muslims. Not a non violent person in Somaie? Not a single Christian or Jew? Do you think you may have exzuarated just a little?
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Ghazi
07-13-2006, 06:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
So are you saying that all Somalis' are violent Muslims. Not a non violent person in Somaie? Not a single Christian or Jew? Do you think you may have exzuarated just a little?
:sl:

Yes your correct I have never heard of a somali jew or christian and please don't twist my words thats the response you'd most likely get if you call them a kafir.
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Daffodil
07-13-2006, 07:51 PM
So you view the actions in Somalia as a good thing?
Im all up for an islamic state as long as they do everything according to shariah i have no problemo with that.
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searchingsoul
07-13-2006, 10:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Daffodil
Im all up for an islamic state as long as they do everything according to shariah i have no problemo with that.

Such thinking is dangerous in the 21st century. With all respect, I think people with such thoughts need to closely examine what they are doing for the image of Islam, and hold themselves responsible for all hostilities and injustices perpetrated toward Muslims worldwide.
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Daffodil
07-13-2006, 10:55 PM
Such thinking is dangerous in the 21st century. With all respect, I think people with such thoughts need to closely examine what they are doing for the image of Islam, and hold themselves responsible for all hostilities and injustices perpetrated toward Muslims worldwide.
dnt worry u dnt have to live there.
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searchingsoul
07-13-2006, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Daffodil
dnt worry u dnt have to live there.
Live where?
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searcheroftruth
07-13-2006, 11:42 PM
ive herd somalia is the only muslim nation in the world which has a 100 percent muslim population
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searchingsoul
07-13-2006, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searcheroftruth
ive herd somalia is the only muslim nation in the world which has a 100 percent muslim population
And I can understand why if it's okay to kill people so easily.
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 02:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Such thinking is dangerous in the 21st century. With all respect, I think people with such thoughts need to closely examine what they are doing for the image of Islam, and hold themselves responsible for all hostilities and injustices perpetrated toward Muslims worldwide.
:sl:

im sorry but we arent here to apply islam in a way the is compatible with the west or modern society.

islam isnt just a religion- its a political system too, it has a law, and we have to follow that law. we cant just pick and choose the 'pretty' parts of the law and apply them to make people happy with this sissy version of islam, you apply it all, and properly, and make God and the true believers happy.

you might think its too harsh to kill apostates, but you know, they have comitted the biggest sin and there is no hope left for them. they arent going to benefit anyone, they will just cause trouble and bring the people away from islam.

if you are looking at things in the perspective of this world, it might look harsh, but when you look at it in the perspective of the here-after, their final destination is hell, and they are going to be tormented there forever.
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searchingsoul
07-14-2006, 02:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

im sorry but we arent here to apply islam in a way the is compatible with the west or modern society.

But do you understand that possessing such views gives many, many people justification for ill-treatment of Muslims?

As long as you know what to expect, I suppose that type of thinking is okay.

islam isnt just a religion- its a political system too, it has a law, and we have to follow that law. we cant just pick and choose the 'pretty' parts of the law and apply them to make people happy with this sissy version of islam, you apply it all, and properly, and make God and the true believers happy.

I've noticed that some muslims tend to combine Islam with politics when it's convenient. If in fact Islam is a political system, you must understand that non-muslims do not welcome your presence. If you expect non-muslims to accept Islam as a political system what right do you have to expect fair treatment? Non-muslims would be fools to embrace muslims, according to this criteria!

you might think its too harsh to kill apostates, but you know, they have comitted the biggest sin and there is no hope left for them. they arent going to benefit anyone, they will just cause trouble and bring the people away from islam.

If there is no coercion in Islam, death for apostates doesn't make sense.



if you are looking at things in the perspective of this world, it might look harsh, but when you look at it in the perspective of the here-after, their final destination is hell, and they are going to be tormented there forever.
I read your response and feel that you have no desire to co-exist peacefully. It's your Muslim way or nothing. Is this correct?
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Nusaybah
07-14-2006, 03:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I read your response and feel that you have no desire to co-exist peacefully. It's your Muslim way or nothing. Is this correct?
do you christians always enjoy twisting the Muslims comments:? , the sister never said that she didn't want to co-exist peacefully so please don't put words in people's mouths.
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 03:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I read your response and feel that you have no desire to co-exist peacefully. It's your Muslim way or nothing. Is this correct?
"There is no compulsion in religion" means you cant force people to accept Islam, but once they are Muslims, they have to follow Islamic law, which means that when they do a crime, as defined by Islamic law, they have to be punished in accordance to Islamic law.

Thank you Nusaybah. My post had nothing at all to do at all with co-existance, it was about Muslims dealing with each other.
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searchingsoul
07-14-2006, 03:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nusaybah
do you christians always enjoy twisting the Muslims comments:? , the sister never said that she didn't want to co-exist peacefully so please don't put words in people's mouths.
Wouldn't co-existence include apostates? I'm confused by your statement.

If you read closely, you'll see that I was not putting words in her mouth. I made a statement and asked a question.
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searchingsoul
07-14-2006, 03:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
"There is no compulsion in religion" means you cant force people to accept Islam, but once they are Muslims, they have to follow Islamic law, which means that when they do a crime, as defined by Islamic law, they have to be punished in accordance to Islamic law.

Thank you Nusaybah. My post had nothing at all to do at all with co-existance, it was about Muslims dealing with each other.
Thanks for the clarification cheese. I still don't understand how a person born into a religion has a choice.

It's comforting to know that as a Christian I'm safe. My husband on the other hand probably needs his head chopped off. ;D
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 03:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Thanks for the clarification cheese. I still don't understand how a person born into a religion has a choice.

It's comforting to know that as a Christian I'm safe. My husband on the other hand probably needs his head chopped off. ;D
Youre welcome.

Um not to sound harsh, but no non-muslim is safe. They might be safe in this world, but in the next world they will spend eternity in the hell fire for their disbelieve in the Oneness of Allah swt. :rollseyes

Although i dont think the classification of a 'disbeliever' is so clear-cut. There may be conditions, such as having the truth presented to the person in its real form (i.e. the real complete truth) before the rejecter can be considered a disbeliever.
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Somalina
07-14-2006, 12:04 PM
~salaam~

I think it's right n again right.Many ppl say they r muslims n dont want to act according to Islam,they should be waken up,they've been sleeping for too long,
Mashallah to our bros in Somalia

Islam for Somalia,
Islam is freedom for all
No oppression
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Abdul-Raouf
07-14-2006, 12:34 PM
I support the Somalis........ they r doing the right thing..... good keep it up:)........ dont worry about the west..... those guys always peep into islamic nations... and create a scene...........

Those west people encourage BARS, SEX SHOPS, SEX MOVIES, PROSTITUTION, CASINOS, .... ALL NONSENSE THINGS.... AND SAY "THATS FREEDOM"......

BUT WHEN AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY IS AGAINST THESE THINGS... AND IF IT FOLLOWS STRICT LAWS......... THEY START BLAMING
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MUNIRAH
07-14-2006, 12:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muzammil
I support the Somalis........ they r doing the right thing..... good keep it up:)........ dont worry about the west..... those guys always peep into islamic nations... and create a scene...........

Those west people encourage BARS, SEX SHOPS, SEX MOVIES, PROSTITUTION, CASINOS, .... ALL NONSENSE THINGS.... AND SAY "THATS FREEDOM"......

BUT WHEN AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY IS AGAINST THESE THINGS... AND IF IT FOLLOWS STRICT LAWS......... THEY START BLAMING

Exactly! I totally agree with yah:)
Way to go Somalia! awesome:statisfie
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HeiGou
07-14-2006, 01:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Somalina
Many ppl say they r muslims n dont want to act according to Islam,they should be waken up,they've been sleeping for too long,
Mashallah to our bros in Somalia

Islam for Somalia,
Islam is freedom for all
No oppression
I am totally in favour of no oppression. I am totally in favour of freedom for all. It may come as a surprise that I am totally in favour of Islamic law in Somalia if that is what the Somalis want. I would prefer elections, but this ought to do. Do you really think though that it will bring an end to oppression and allow freedom? They shot a guy dead today for protesting about taxes. But it is an idea whose time has come and needs to be tried.

It is weird that you all seem to think that death for not praying is acceptable. Still, each to their own.
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MUNIRAH
07-14-2006, 01:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou

It is weird that you all seem to think that death for not praying is acceptable. Still, each to their own.

Well.....if a person says that Prayers are not obligatory.....and that he is not gonna do it because that is what he believes..........then killin him is acceptable.
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MUNIRAH
07-14-2006, 01:45 PM
Except if the person is new to Islam.....then he should be taught that prayers are obligatory to all mature muslims.
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HeiGou
07-14-2006, 01:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MUNIRAH
Well.....if a person says that Prayers are not obligatory.....and that he is not gonna do it because that is what he believes..........then killin him is acceptable.
OK. If that is what you believe, that is what you believe.
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Sis786
07-14-2006, 02:14 PM
What You Can Be Killed For Not Reading Your Prayers!
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Somalina
07-14-2006, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
I am totally in favour of no oppression. I am totally in favour of freedom for all. It may come as a surprise that I am totally in favour of Islamic law in Somalia if that is what the Somalis want. I would prefer elections, but this ought to do. Do you really think though that it will bring an end to oppression and allow freedom? They shot a guy dead today for protesting about taxes. But it is an idea whose time has come and needs to be tried.

It is weird that you all seem to think that death for not praying is acceptable. Still, each to their own.
It depends on wat U call Oppression n Freedom
If being kept aware of ur duties to Ur Lord,Ur Sustainer,
The one U BELIEVE in,, is oppression den i say bye bye to freedom

//NB:they were peacefully told to do it,THEY KNOW,it's a MUST as they claim to be muslims,I just hope non muslims dont interfere!
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MUNIRAH
07-14-2006, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
OK. If that is what you believe, that is what you believe.

yup....that is what I beleive......:) Alhamdulilah I am so lucky!
This is based o*n the authentic hadith in which my Prophet (peace be upon him) said,

"Between a person and kufr (disbelief) and shirk (associating partners with Allah) is the abandonment of the prayer."

This was recorded by Imam Muslim in his Sahih. The Prophet (peace be upon him) also said,

"The covenant dividing us and them is the prayer. Whoever abandons it has committed kufr (apostasy)."
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wilberhum
07-14-2006, 04:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MUNIRAH
Well.....if a person says that Prayers are not obligatory.....and that he is not gonna do it because that is what he believes..........then killin him is acceptable.
And Islam is a religion of peace?
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Ghazi
07-14-2006, 04:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
And Islam is a religion of peace?
:sl:

Yep! Islam is Religion of peace, :)
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wilberhum
07-14-2006, 04:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Yep! Islam is Religion of peace, :)
So then killing non prayers is peacefull?
I guess it is ok as long as you kill them peacefully.
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Isaac
07-14-2006, 04:48 PM
Well wilberhun, im sure youve heard it 100 times by know, islam is a religion of peace. Now that youve heard it, why dont you go and study it. Put your mind at rest for once, seeig that your always asking that question. i dare you. Go study islam, read the quran with explanation, learn it from those who have learnt. Then when you have finished come back and then ill ask you the same question you asked here. Then god willing you will be able to provide others with an answer. And if your intention is of a sinciere nature, as i said god willing your answer should match the one you were give previously by the other poster.

Take care.
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wilberhum
07-14-2006, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isaac
Well wilberhun, im sure youve heard it 100 times by know, islam is a religion of peace. Now that youve heard it, why dont you go and study it. Put your mind at rest for once, seeig that your always asking that question. i dare you. Go study islam, read the quran with explanation, learn it from those who have learnt. Then when you have finished come back and then ill ask you the same question you asked here. Then god willing you will be able to provide others with an answer. And if your intention is of a sinciere nature, as i said god willing your answer should match the one you were give previously by the other poster.

Take care.
I am studying. I studying what Muslims say. Someone has said that it is OK to kill people for not praying. Since you only protest what I say and not what he said, am I to assume that you also think it is OK to kill people for not praying? Please explain how this relates to being peaceful.
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Dawud_uk
07-14-2006, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I am studying. I studying what Muslims say. Someone has said that it is OK to kill people for not praying. Since you only protest what I say and not what he said, am I to assume that you also think it is OK to kill people for not praying? Please explain how this relates to being peaceful.

hi wilberhum,

the route meaning of the word islam has a double meaning peace and submission depending on its context.

to me it means submitting only to God, and the peace comes from the contentment of the heart that comes with being submitted to God.

now we do as God and his messenger have taught us. if they have taught us that not praying can lead a person to leaving islam and the punishment for such is death then that is the correct thing to do.

now the peace will come to the population who will not have a troublemaker and apostate amongst their number trying to poison them against islam or a true understanding of islam.

even though such a person is far from the right path, they are still treated mercifully and given every opportunity to repent but if they dont then yes they are killed and this is a mercy to the rest of society as their rights and Allah's rights are more important than the individuals.

Daw'ud
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wilberhum
07-14-2006, 05:03 PM
Daw'ud
[MAD]I always love it when people justify murder.[/MAD]
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Dawud_uk
07-14-2006, 05:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Daw'ud
[MAD]I always love it when people justify murder.[/MAD]
murder to one man is justice to another,

but i prefer to go on what God and his messenger (saws) taught us is right and wrong not you or any other human man made values system.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Daw'ud
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Isaac
07-14-2006, 05:10 PM
Ive tried to be easy with you, reasn with you, and now you go and twits my words. I took back what i said when i say you twisted word of people here, but now youve just blown it. Proe to me from my post, where i said its ok to kill people because they dont pRAY. If you can do that i will promse to never post on this forum again. If you cant, then ill always start be greeting you as a liar and deviant. So the challenge is on. And to sum it up - ROVE FROM MY POST WHERE I HAVE JUSTIFIES KILLING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT PRAY.
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wilberhum
07-14-2006, 05:29 PM
i said its ok to kill people because they dont pRAY.
Hay man, you joined in. I was addressing another and you know it. The question remains, since you attack me and not him, what do you think about what he said?
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AHMED_GUREY
07-14-2006, 05:39 PM
masha-allah

it's about time these little rascals were rehabilitated to fear Allah swt

and as islamic troops are preparing to take over the puppet government in Baidoa in of these weeks

Somalia will become an Islamic state and it will prosper insha-allah
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scentsofjannah
07-14-2006, 05:49 PM
Gerinimo

Please just dont put articles without providing a link.

the Union of Islam Courts is more than 1 person your article is only about one person...

anyways do post the link
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searchingsoul
07-15-2006, 06:08 PM
I was thinking that if all the Muslims who don't do their prayers were killed it would lead to a tiny Ummah. Is this correct?
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Ghazi
07-15-2006, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I was thinking that if all the Muslims who don't do their prayers were killed it would lead to a tiny Ummah. Is this correct?
:sl:

I'd rather have 10 mumins then a billion jahil(ignorent) muslims any day.
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Zionazi_Dissent
07-15-2006, 06:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I was thinking that if all the Muslims who don't do their prayers were killed it would lead to a tiny Ummah. Is this correct?
Killing people for not praying is a major sin. The idiot Somali Sheikh should be **** down. This is ridiculous. His policy defeats the idea of devotion to God.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-15-2006, 06:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I was thinking that if all the Muslims who don't do their prayers were killed it would lead to a tiny Ummah. Is this correct?
that doesnt mean the ummah would die out. A tiny ammount of firm believers could do miracles in the way of Allah and lead to a huge army of firm believers. I just dont know why there is no kalipha in this day and age, whats up with the billions of muslims out there?
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scentsofjannah
07-15-2006, 06:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Killing people for not praying is a major sin. The idiot Somali Sheikh should be **** down. This is ridiculous. His policy defeats the idea of devotion to God.
if he holds such views, the more knowledgable scholars should correct him..i think before we threaten this or that person we should verify this news and as of yet i havent seen any source.

:w:
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scentsofjannah
07-15-2006, 06:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

I'd rather have 10 mumins then a billion jahil(ignorent) muslims any day.
brother i think you should take back this comment because people could see you as advocating the killing of nonpractising muslims.

please lets remember to speak with wisdom and not out of foolishness or ignorance.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-15-2006, 06:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
brother i think you should take back this comment because people could see you as advocating the killing of nonpractising muslims.

please lets remember to speak with wisdom and not out of foolishness or ignorance.
sis if you analyse he simply meant if a war was to break out involving the killing of millions of muslims then it doesnt weaken islam at all because it lives in the hearts of the believers.

i hope that makes sence inshaAllah :)
Reply

Ghazi
07-15-2006, 06:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
brother i think you should take back this comment because people could see you as advocating the killing of nonpractising muslims.

please lets remember to speak with wisdom and not out of foolishness or ignorance.
:sl:

Never said anything about killing muslims I stand by my statment.
Reply

SirZubair
07-15-2006, 06:44 PM
I can't stop laughing when i read such articles.

"Islamic" countries trying to Apply Shariah laws...what a hoot.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-15-2006, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
I can't stop laughing when i read such articles.

"Islamic" countries trying to Apply Shariah laws...what a hoot.
lol bro but still make dua inshaAllah, so many muslims are yearning a place to stay where the shariah is implemented...
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SirZubair
07-15-2006, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
lol bro but still make dua inshaAllah, so many muslims are yearning a place to stay where the shariah is implemented...
Insha'allah i will,..once my other pray is accepted by ALlah swt.

"I Pray That Allah(swt) Grants This Ummah The Hikma That It Desires, And The Hidayat That It Requires."
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-15-2006, 06:53 PM
Ameen thumma Ameen!
Reply

Snowflake
07-15-2006, 08:16 PM
:sl:

There is no such thing as killing muslims who do not pray. The Quran is clear on this matter.

Allah (SWT) says "Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salât (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salât (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell. Except those who repent and believe (in the Oneness of Allâh and His Messenger Muhammad SAW), and work righteousness. Such will enter Paradise and they will not be wronged in aught." (Sura Maryam, ayat 59-60)

Allah has clearly said that He will forgive those who repent after abandoning salah. How this shiekh made his own ruling is beyond me. How can anyone repent if they are killed? Furthermore salah is a personal matter between man and Allah. Forcing someone to offer salah physically cannot be equal to achieving khushu in prayer. A person's heart must be attuned to the prayer. Otherwise they will be hypocrites.

Allah (swt) says in Sura Al-Mâ'ûn "So woe unto those performers of Salât (prayers) (hypocrites),Who delay their Salât (prayer) from their stated fixed times,Those who do good deeds only to be seen (of men),"



:w:
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Skillganon
07-15-2006, 08:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I am studying. I studying what Muslims say. Someone has said that it is OK to kill people for not praying. Since you only protest what I say and not what he said, am I to assume that you also think it is OK to kill people for not praying? Please explain how this relates to being peaceful.
I don't think their is a ruling for killing people who does not pray, and their might not be a punishment of any sort for not praying other than the hereafter. It is good to ask for evidence, when you talk to certain people, like reputable sites. (e.g. islamonline)
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GARY
07-15-2006, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

These people are muslim so how can it be forced conversion?
Your response is a good one. But is it not a islamic teaching that there is no compulsion in religion? I realize that this is not a problem with islam, but the way in which these guys are forcing it on the people.
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mano_the_cat
07-15-2006, 08:34 PM
well sorry to offend anyone but its the same style as the talibans .... they are just proving the concept of islam spread by the sword as right ... i believe prayer is a connection between Allah & man ...so no one else has any say in the matter of two ... prayer is for Allah & He alone is going to reward it ....
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-15-2006, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by GARY
Your response is a good one. But is it not a islamic teaching that there is no compulsion in religion? I realize that this is not a problem with islam, but the way in which these guys are forcing it on the people.
as you can see no-one agrees with the term "pray or die", so clearly the quranic saying "there is no compulsion in religion" over-rides all!
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Skillganon
07-15-2006, 08:41 PM
What you have to be careful about is the truth. What is the truth and what is the lies, which are more or less mix and matched. Mostly are done by omission.

"What you see is not always what it is, and what you don't see does not mean it never happened"
Reply

Daffodil
07-15-2006, 09:11 PM
Question :


If you do not pray salat out of laziness on purpose, are you a kafir or just a bad Muslim? Please answer.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Imaam Ahmad said that the one who does not pray because of laziness is a kaafir. This is the more correct view and is that indicated by the evidence of the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger, and by the words of the Salaf and the proper understanding. (Al-Sharh al-Mumti’ ‘ala Zaad al-Mustanqi’, 2/26).

Anyone who examines the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah will see that they indicate that the one who neglects the prayer is guilty of Kufr Akbar (major kufr) which puts him beyond the pale of Islam.

Among the evidence to be found in the Qur’aan is:

The aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism], perform As-Salaat (Iqaamat-as-Salaat) and give Zakaat, then they are your brethren in religion.” [al-Tawbah 9:11]

The evidence derived from this aayah is that Allaah defined three things that the Mushrikeen have to do in order to eliminate the differences between them us: they should repent from shirk, they should perform prayer, and they should pay zakaah. If they repent from shirk but they do not perform the prayer or pay zakaah, then they are not our brethren in faith; if they perform the prayer but do not pay zakaah, then they are not our brethren in faith. Brotherhood in religion cannot be effaced except when a person goes out of the religion completely; it cannot be effaced by fisq (immoral conduct) or lesser types of kufr.

Allaah also says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salaat (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salaat (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell. Except those who repent and believe (in the Oneness of Allaah and His Messenger Muhammad), and work righteousness. Such will enter Paradise and they will not be wronged in aught.” [Maryam 19:59-60]

The evidence derived from this aayah is that Allaah referred to those who neglect the prayer and follow their desires, Except those who repent and believe, which indicates that at the time when they are neglecting their prayers and following their desires, they are not believers.

The evidence of the Sunnah that proves that the one who neglects the prayer is a kaafir includes the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his neglect of the prayer.” (Narrated by Muslim in Kitaab al-Eemaan from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)).

It was narrated that Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The covenant that distinguishes between us and them is the prayer, and whoever neglects it has disbelieved (become a kaafir).’” (It was narrated by Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa’i and Ibn Maajah). What is meant here by kufr or disbelief is the kind of kufr which puts a person beyond the pale of Islam, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made prayer the dividing line between the believers and the disbelievers. It is known that the community of kufr is not the same as the community of Islam, so whoever does not fulfil this covenant must be one of the kaafireen (disbelievers).

There is also the hadeeth of ‘Awf ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him), according to which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of your leaders are those whom you love and who love you, who pray for you and you pray for them. The worst of your leaders are those whom you hate and who hate you, and you send curses on them and they send curses on you.” He was asked, “O Messenger of Allaah, should we not fight them by the sword?” He said, “Not as long as they are establishing prayer amongst you.”

This hadeeth indicates that those in authority should be opposed and fought if they do not establish prayer, but it is not permissible to oppose and fight them unless they make a blatant show of kufr and we have evidence from Allaah that what they are doing is indeed kufr. ‘Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) called us and we gave bay’ah (oath of allegiance) to him. Among the things that we pledged to do was to listen and obey him both when we felt enthusiastic and when we were disinclined to act, both at times of difficulty and times of ease, and at times when others were given preference over us, and that we would not oppose those in authority. He said: ‘unless they made a blatant show of kufr and you have evidence from Allaah that what they are doing is indeed kufr.’” (Agreed upon). On this basis, their neglecting the prayer, for which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said we should oppose them and fight them by the sword, constitutes an act of blatant kufr for which we have evidence from Allaah that it is indeed kufr.

If someone were to say: is it not permissible to interpret the texts about a person who neglects prayer being a kaafir as referring to the one who neglects the prayer because he does not think it is obligatory?

We would say: it is not permissible to interpret the texts in this way because there are two reservations about this interpretation:

it involves ignoring the general description that the Lawgiver took into consideration and to which the ruling was connected. The ruling that the person who neglects prayer is a kaafir is connected to the action of neglecting prayer, not to his denial of it being obligatory. Brotherhood in religion is based on performing the prayer, not on whether a person declares it to be obligatory. Allaah did not say, “If they repent and state that the prayer is obligatory”, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not say “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his denial that the prayer is obligatory” or “The covenant that distinguishes between us and them is our statement that the prayer is obligatory, so whoever denies that it is obligatory has disbelieved.” If this is what Allaah and His Messenger had meant, then not stating it clearly would have contradicted what is said in the Qur’aan. For Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have sent down to you the Book (the Qur’aan) as an exposition of everything” [al-Nahl 16:89]

“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’aan)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them” [al-Nahl 16:44]

It is not correct to refer to a reason which the Lawgiver did not make a factor in ruling a person to be a kaafir, because if a person who does not have the excuse of ignorance denies that the five daily prayers are obligatory then he is deemed to be a kaafir, whether he prays or not. If a person performs the five daily prayers, fulfilling all the conditions of prayer and doing all the actions that are obligatory or mustahabb, but he denies that the prayers are obligatory with no valid reason for doing so, then he is a kaafir, even though he is not neglecting the prayers. From this it is clear that it is not correct to interpret the texts about neglecting the prayers as referring to denying that they are obligatory. The correct view is that the person who neglects the prayer is a kaafir who is beyond the pale of Islam, as is clearly stated in the report narrated by Ibn Abi Haatim in his Sunan from ‘Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) exhorted us: ‘Do not associate anything in worship with Allaah, and do not neglect the prayer deliberately, for whoever neglects the prayer deliberately puts himself beyond the pale of Islam.” Moreover, if we interpret the ahaadeeth about neglecting the prayer as referring to a denial that it is obligatory, there would be no point in the reports referring specifically to the prayer, because this ruling applies equally to zakaah, fasting and Hajj – whoever neglects any of these, denying that it is obligatory, is a kaafir, if he does not have the excuse of ignorance.

Just as the one who neglects the prayer is deemed to be a kaafir on the basis of the evidence of the texts and reports, so he may also be deemed to be a kaafir on the basis of rational analysis. How can a person be a believer if he neglects the prayer which is the pillar of religion, and when there are aayaat and ahaadeeth urging us to perform prayer which make the wise believer rush to do the prayer, and when there are aayaat and ahaadeeth warning against neglecting it, which make the wise believer scared to ignore the prayer? Once we have understood this, a person cannot be a believer if he neglects the prayer.

If a person were to say: can we not interpret kufr in the case of one who neglects the prayer as meaning a lesser form of kufr (kufr al-na’mah) rather than the kind of kufr which puts a person beyond the pale of Islam (kufr al-millah)? Or can we not interpret it as being less than Kufr Akbar (major kufr) and more like the kufr referred to in the ahaadeeth, “There are two qualities that exist among people which are qualities of kufr: slandering people’s lineage and wailing over the dead” and “Trading insults with a Muslim is fisq (immoral conduct) and exchanging blows with him is kufr”, etc.?

We would say that this interpretation is not correct for a number of reasons:

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made prayer the dividing line between kufr and faith, between the believer and the disbeliever. This is where he drew the line, and the two things are quite distinct and do not overlap.

Prayer is one of the pillars of Islam, so when the person who neglects it is described as a kaafir, this implies the kind of kufr that puts a person beyond the pale of Islam, because he has destroyed one of the pillars of Islam. This is a different matter from attributing kufr to a person who does one of the actions of kufr.

There are other texts which indicate that the kufr of the one who neglects the prayer is the kind of kufr which puts a person beyond the pale of Islam, so what is meant here by kufr should be interpreted according to the apparent meaning, so as avoid contradictions between the texts.

The description of kufr in those ahaadeeth is different. Concerning neglecting the prayer, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Between a man and shirk and kufr.” Here the word kufr is preceded in the original Arabic by the definite article “al”, which indicates that what is referred to here is the reality of kufr. This is in contrast to the other ahaadeeth where kufr is referred to without the definite article, or in a verbal form, which indicates that this is a part of kufr or that the person has disbelieved by doing this action, but it is not the absolute kufr which places a person beyond the pale of Islam.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in his book Iqtidaa’ al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem (p. 70, Al-Sunnah Al-Muhammadiyyah edn.), concerning the hadeeth of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ““There are two qualities that exist among people which are qualities of kufr”:

“The phrase ‘which are qualities of kufr’ means that these two qualities which exist among people are qualities of kufr because they are among the deeds of kufr and they exist among people. But not everyone who has a part of kufr becomes a kaafir because of it, unless there exists in his heart the reality of kufr. Similarly, not everyone who has a part of faith becomes a believer because of it, unless there exists in his heart the essential reality of faith. So there is a distinction between kufr that is preceded [in the original Arabic] by the definite article “al”, as in the hadeeth ‘Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands nothing but his neglecting the prayer’, and kufr that is not preceded by the definite article but is used in an affirmative sense.’”

So it is clear that the person who neglects the prayer with no excuse is a kaafir who is beyond the pale of Islam, on the basis of this evidence. This is the correct view according to Imaam Ahmad, and it is one of the two opinions narrated from al-Shaafa’i, as was mentioned by Ibn Katheer in his tafseer of the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salaat (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salaat (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times] and have followed lusts” [Maryam 19:59]

Ibn al-Qayyim mentioned in his book Al-Salaah that it was one of the two views narrated from al-Shaafa’i, and that al-Tahhaawi narrated it from al-Shaafa’i himself.

This was also the view of the majority of the Sahaabah, indeed many narrated that there was consensus among the Sahaabah on this point. ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Shaqeeq said: the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not think that neglecting any deed made a person a kaafir, apart from neglecting the prayer. This was reported by al-Tirmidhi and al-Haakim, who classed it as saheeh according to the conditions of (al-Bukhaari and Muslim). Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, the well known imaam, said, It was reported with a saheeh isnaad from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that the one who neglects the prayer is a kaafir. This was also the view of the scholars from the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the present day: that the person who deliberately neglects the prayer with no valid excuse, until the time for that prayer is over, is a kaafir. Ibn Hazm said that it was reported from ‘Umar, ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf, Mu’aadh ibn Jabal, Abu Hurayrah and others among the Sahaabah. He said: “We do not know of any opposing view among the Sahaabah.” Al-Mundhiri narrated this from him in Al-Targheeb wa’l-Tarheeb, and added more names of Sahaabah: ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas, Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah and Abu’l-Dardaa’ – may Allaah be pleased with them. He said: apart from the Sahaabah, there are also Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ishaaq ibn Raahawayh, ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak, al-Nakha’i, al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, Ayyoob al-Sakhtayaani, Abu Daawood al-Tayaalisi, Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shaybah, Zuhayr ibn Harb and others.

And Allaah knows best.



Reference: Risaalah fi Hukm Taarik al-Salaah (Paper on the ruling on one who neglects the prayer) by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen. (www.islam-qa.com)
Reply

snakelegs
07-15-2006, 09:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mano_the_cat
well sorry to offend anyone but its the same style as the talibans .... they are just proving the concept of islam spread by the sword as right ... i believe prayer is a connection between Allah & man ...so no one else has any say in the matter of two ... prayer is for Allah & He alone is going to reward it ....
i agree. why would allah want the prayer of some one who is forced to pray? esp in a religion that says "there is no compulsion in religion"??????
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Dawud_uk
07-16-2006, 09:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
if he holds such views, the more knowledgable scholars should correct him..i think before we threaten this or that person we should verify this news and as of yet i havent seen any source.

:w:

assalaamu alaykum,

i cannot believe i am seeing believers question the shariah like this, check your facts and you will see the sheikh is right on this matter and that the great scholars of the past were agreed on this matter.

look... lets break this down into three simple steps...

1. is continuously not praying an act of kufr?
certainly it is, there is a lot of evidence for this such as the haddith, 'the difference between kufr and imaan is salaat.'

2. if someone continues and refuses to pray after being warned does this person become a kaffir?
certainly they do,
the evidence is presented and they still refuse to listen then they become murteed, a kaffir apostate because they are openly disobedient to our creator and rejecting his message and because of sayings of the prophet Muhammad (saws) such as the one above.

3. is it permissable to kill such a person?
certainly it is,
when someone has been warned repeatedly to pray, that they still refuse then the leader of the muslim community or the qadi in their place can order this persons death or apostasy and this is a mercy on the whole of society who will then be protected from such fitnah.
the evidence for this is the actions of the sahabah and righteous generations who killed apostates in thier midst.
the apostasy wars were fought against tribes who refuses to pay zakaat, they still believed in the shahadah, prayed etc but they didnt act upon that belief so war was waged against them until they agreed to pay again.
now salaat is a more important part of islam than zakaat, yet here on this board people are questioning the idea that it is kufr not to pray?

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
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KAding
07-16-2006, 10:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
:sl:

There is no such thing as killing muslims who do not pray. The Quran is clear on this matter.
Not clear enough apparently. Besides, I think some of you are missing the point. This isn't about killing Muslims, this is about killing apostates who are Muslim only in name.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-16-2006, 01:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Not clear enough apparently. Besides, I think some of you are missing the point. This isn't about killing Muslims, this is about killing apostates who are Muslim only in name.
i thought it was about killing muslims who dont pray :?
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KAding
07-16-2006, 10:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
i thought it was about killing muslims who dont pray :?
Yes, and since they don't pray anymore they have become apostates.
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searchingsoul
07-17-2006, 06:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Daffodil
Question :


If you do not pray salat out of laziness on purpose, are you a kafir or just a bad Muslim? Please answer.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Imaam Ahmad said that the one who does not pray because of laziness is a kaafir.
So how do you think this affects the numbers normally cited as belonging to the ummah? Do you think it would reduce the number of muslims by 50%, or is that too low or too high?
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Sis786
07-17-2006, 09:17 AM
Wait a min i asked a question CAN YOU KILL A PERSON FOR NOT PRAYING! this is the first time i heard this
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-17-2006, 12:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sis786
Wait a min i asked a question CAN YOU KILL A PERSON FOR NOT PRAYING! this is the first time i heard this
no :eek:
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Sis786
07-17-2006, 12:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
no :eek:
Ok Phew i mean i do pray but this was still extreme
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-17-2006, 12:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sis786
Ok Phew i mean i do pray but this was still extreme
agreed :eek:
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Malaikah
07-17-2006, 12:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sis786
Wait a min i asked a question CAN YOU KILL A PERSON FOR NOT PRAYING! this is the first time i heard this
:sl:

YES! the general ruling is that a muslim who does not pray is an apostate! and what happens to an apostate? DEATH!

this is a matter agreed upon by the scholars. BUT this is a general ruling, it doesnt mean that you can go up to any muslim who does not pray and say you are a kaffir.

sister daffodil has already provided a lenghty article on the matter.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-17-2006, 12:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

YES! the general ruling is that a muslim who does not pray is an apostate! and what happens to an apostate? DEATH!

this is a matter agreed upon by the scholars. BUT this is a general ruling, it doesnt mean that you can go up to any muslim who does not pray and say you are a kaffir.

sister daffodil has already provided a lenghty article on the matter.
i swear theres a hadeeth where the prophet saws gave apostates a certain time to come back? :?

anyone know about this? i think i heard it from imam anwar-al-awlaki
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Malaikah
07-17-2006, 12:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
i swear theres a hadeeth where the prophet saws gave apostates a certain time to come back? :?

anyone know about this? i think i heard it from imam anwar-al-awlaki
:sl:

yes that is correct they have 3 days to repent. but that doesnt change that muslims who do not pray are apostates.

see here under the heading of apostates.
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Daffodil
07-17-2006, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
i swear theres a hadeeth where the prophet saws gave apostates a certain time to come back? :?

anyone know about this? i think i heard it from imam anwar-al-awlaki
If u read the fatwa i posted u will see that it does include the repentence part of it.

P.s sis cheese jizakallah.
Reply

Dawud_uk
07-17-2006, 02:56 PM
assalaamu alaykum,

i feel very dissapointed that muslims are posting on here with little knowledge and speaking from their own desires on what they want islam to be, usually according to their western upbringing, not from any research or knowledge of the issue.

even a preliminary look into this issue reveals the views of the scholars on this matter, please people when you are talking about a ruling of islam do your reseach before posting as we dont want to unintentionally misguide people.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 03:22 PM
http://www.hiiraan.org/news/2006/jul...uslims-07.aspx

For those looking for a link
Reply

Haya emaan
07-17-2006, 03:30 PM
:sl: [QUOTE=cheese;405194]:sl:

YES! the general ruling is that a muslim who does not pray is an apostate! and what happens to an apostate? DEATH!

this is a matter agreed upon by the scholars. BUT this is a general ruling, it doesnt mean that you can go up to any muslim who does not pray and say you are a kaffir.

QUOTE]
i agree with u:
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scentsofjannah
07-18-2006, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

YES! the general ruling is that a muslim who does not pray is an apostate! and what happens to an apostate? DEATH!

this is a matter agreed upon by the scholars. BUT this is a general ruling, it doesnt mean that you can go up to any muslim who does not pray and say you are a kaffir.

sister daffodil has already provided a lenghty article on the matter.
sister please refrain from making your own fatwa..many muslims dont pray are you saying we're to masscare them all?

comeon please..donot speak with ignorance, you all are better off reading a book!
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scentsofjannah
07-18-2006, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abd'Majid
i swear theres a hadeeth where the prophet saws gave apostates a certain time to come back? :?

anyone know about this? i think i heard it from imam anwar-al-awlaki
ive heard of hadeeths where Prophet Muhammed knew some apostates and didnt even do a thing to them
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scentsofjannah
07-18-2006, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
ok thanks..appreciate it
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Daffodil
07-18-2006, 09:17 PM
ive heard of hadeeths where Prophet Muhammed knew some apostates and didnt even do a thing to them
yes and we are all aware of hadiths when he and the kaliphs did, however we have provided some proofs where as u havent.
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searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 01:09 AM
I've been having a ball telling my husband that he is an apostate that deserves death. I still don't think he's convinced.
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AHMED_GUREY
07-27-2006, 04:40 AM
i heard stories of coca cola being banned by the ICU and that people were detained if they were caught drinking it



:rollseyes
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Quruxbadaan
07-27-2006, 04:48 AM
I dont know about killing people for not praying

perhaps i just havent heard of it

what i have heard tho is that a person who doesnt pray is no different than a kuffar

Maa salaama
Reply

searchingsoul
07-30-2006, 05:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
i heard stories of coca cola being banned by the ICU and that people were detained if they were caught drinking it

http://www.hiiraan.com/news/2006/july/images/kulan.jpg

:rollseyes
WOW! The 3rd man from the right is even concealing his face! I bet he doesn't want others to know about his dirty little addiction to coca cola!
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AHMED_GUREY
07-30-2006, 05:54 AM
''a'' somali sheikh of the ICU tells muslims pray or die

but what does the ''leader'' of the ICU say??

Meanwhile, Sheikh Aweys, who is in the list of US wanted terrorists said he was against the recent call by one of Islamic courts’ members who declared he who does not perform the prayer would be killed.
http://www.somalinet.com/news/world/Somalia/3194
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AHMED_GUREY
07-30-2006, 05:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
WOW! The 3rd man from the right is even concealing his face! I bet he doesn't want others to know about his dirty little addiction to coca cola!

;D that was funny
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searchingsoul
07-30-2006, 05:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
''a'' somali sheikh of the ICU tells muslims pray or die

but what does the ''leader'' of the ICU say??



http://www.somalinet.com/news/world/Somalia/3194


It sounds like the situation isn't as bad as I originally thought. That's good news! Thanks for posting!
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