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أحمد
07-12-2006, 11:12 AM
:sl:

It is an old saying amongst scholars who have been working for many years; trying to achieve unity within the Muslims Ummah, that it would take a miracle to unite the Muslims.

Some say they are waiting for the Mahdi, others say they are right and everyone else is going to hell. There are many people living in a false hope that everything will be fine by itself without trying. It maybe something to take no short than a miracle to solve, but this does not mean, we throw away the truth completely and hope that one day Mahdi is going to come and all the Muslims will join him as one Ummah; and will defeat falsehood.

One step that many sectarian Muslims are taking against unity is throwing away knowledge; or at least trying their best to stay away from it. Whenever anyone tries to speak the truth about what should be common knowledge; such as Islamic History, they are silenced. This anti-Islamic attitude of sectarian Muslims is one of the majors factors keeping the Muslims from uniting.

Those of you who wish to unite should try to get off the net for a while, get Islamic History books, get Islamic Shariah books and any other to study. Always start off with the History, before jumping ahead; that way will help you understand ahadeeth better as well as which people (narrators) to trust and who you cannot trut. All this idea about people seeking unity online seems to have become a joke to those in authoritative positions on those so called unity seeking sites.

:w:
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Muslim Soldier
07-12-2006, 11:17 AM
very true!

For this reason it is that I ask the admin to allow secreterian debates
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-12-2006, 11:30 AM
i would also like sectarian "discussions". but i respect the mods choice.

btw wat the brother has posted is brilliant, i already started studying the history of early islam dating from the times of Qusay. its interesting!!!
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khal_75
07-12-2006, 11:30 AM
:sl: i know dat sum ov ur post av been deleted 4 tellin da truth about history. i understand now dat i'v been wasting my time on this forum. 1 ov my threads was deleted once 4 telling them sumthing. :w:
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Far7an
07-12-2006, 11:40 AM
:sl: Brother Ahmed.

You went offtopic in a thread, so all the offtopic posts were deleted. If you have any complaints please PM myself or one of the other Moderators or Admins.
Reply

khal_75
07-12-2006, 11:46 AM
:sl: it is strange that when ever someone posts false claims againsts the Prophet (pbuh) or his family, it is never against anyones rules. but when you post truth about history, it becomes insulting. now before anyone says anything about bans and warnings, before leaving i just want to say to those who do want unity to study history and get help on issues from sheikh abdul hakeem and ahmed waheed, i do not see anyone else with that knowledge willing to tell the truth here.
:w:
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askanalim
07-12-2006, 11:50 AM
Salam Ahmed Waheed. I think you should leave this forum just as Halima did. I see no use in you staying here. They will not listen.
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أحمد
07-12-2006, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by askanalim
Salam Ahmed Waheed. I think you should leave this forum just as Halima did. I see no use in you staying here. They will not listen.
:sl:

That will be very soon Insha-Allah, I'm not planning on staying for very long. I'll leave my email [content removed by zAk earlier on (esiraat@yahoo.com)] for anyone who has questions about Islam. For those who want unity.

:w:
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Far7an
07-12-2006, 11:55 AM
:sl:

Hmm. What's funny is how your fans never post, but just when you need someone to cheer you on, they're bang on time!
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أحمد
07-12-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Far7an
:sl:

Hmm. What's funny is how your fans never post, but just when you need someone to cheer you on, they're bang on time!
:sl:

And what is that supposed to mean?

:w:
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Far7an
07-12-2006, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

And what is that supposed to mean?

:w:
Wa alaikum asalaam.

I explained why your posts were deleted, but we are still accused of acting 'anti-islamic' as you put it, in your initial post. No matter what myself or other staff members say, it will have no effect, as you're convinced that we are 'against the truth'.

I have nothing against you brother, on the contrary I respect you for your knowledge and understanding of the deen. I'd appreciate it if you would stop acting as if we are against you, because we are not.

If someone's posts are deleted, or if they are warned for whatever reason, it's simply because it's against the forum rules and nothing personal.
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by Far7an
Wa alaikum asalaam.

I explained why your posts were deleted, but we are still accused of acting 'anti-islamic' as you put it, in your initial post. No matter what myself or other staff members say, it will have no effect, as you're convinced that we are 'against the truth'.

I have nothing against you brother, on the contrary I respect you for your knowledge and understanding of the deen. I'd appreciate it if you would stop acting as if we are against you, because we are not.

If someone's posts are deleted, or if they are warned for whatever reason, it's simply because it's against the forum rules and nothing personal.
:sl:

Can you tell me when I called you anti-Islamic. Read the entire post before accusing me of saying that. Secondly I did not comment on my posts being deleted in any post; I did however do that via PM.

:w:
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Far7an
07-12-2006, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

Can you tell me when I called you anti-Islamic. Read the entire post before accusing me of saying that. Secondly I did not comment on my posts being deleted in any post; I did however do that via PM.

:w:
It seems I'm mistaken, I apologise. When you said:
This anti-Islamic attitude of sectarian Muslims is one of the majors factors keeping the Muslims from uniting.
I thought you were reffering to us.

My comments about your posts being deleted came after khal_75 stated that they were deleted because you were stating the truth.

And I was not aware that you had sent a PM to any mods, I apologise again.
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 12:19 PM
Originally Posted by Far7an
And I was not aware that you had sent a PM to any mods, I apologise again.
:sl:

I did not PM a mod or Admin, because the issue was supposed be left as it was, I only sent PM to the person who requested an explanation to the word Mu'awiyah. That is all.

As for you having anything against me; I'm sure you have nothing against me.

:w:
Reply

azim
07-12-2006, 12:19 PM
Asalamu alaykum.

Regarding sectarian issues, I think it is a very good idea to restrict their discussion. Why? Look around the forum, there is a large number of youngsters, many of whom perhaps know little about different sects, their history etc... If they want to learn about the different sects, there is plenty of information in the respective sub-sections and on the internet in general.

The point is, sectarian issues should be discussed by those who have knowledge (deep knowledge). It shouldnt be discussed by youngsters and teenagers (even they might have an excellent understanding of the deen and history of Islam etc...) because its not our place to discuss it.

What benefit could come from allowing sectarian discussions?
Reply

Muslim Soldier
07-12-2006, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by Far7an

If someone's posts are deleted, or if they are warned for whatever reason, it's simply because it's against the forum rules and nothing personal.
well I think its time the rules change.
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
07-12-2006, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by azim
Asalamu alaykum.

Regarding sectarian issues, I think it is a very good idea to restrict their discussion. Why? Look around the forum, there is a large number of youngsters, many of whom perhaps know little about different sects, their history etc... If they want to learn about the different sects, there is plenty of information in the respective sub-sections and on the internet in general.

The point is, sectarian issues should be discussed by those who have knowledge (deep knowledge). It shouldnt be discussed by youngsters and teenagers (even they might have an excellent understanding of the deen and history of Islam etc...) because its not our place to discuss it.

What benefit could come from allowing sectarian discussions?
Salam,

100% agree.

Wasalam
Reply

Muslim Soldier
07-12-2006, 12:32 PM
What would we benefit from discussing secreterian issues?

Read the first post. It explains it all
Reply

Malaikah
07-12-2006, 12:34 PM
:sl:

I think discussions in the World Affairs section are heated enough, id hate to see the reponse to a sectarian section where discussion is allowed!:offended: Like the other guy said, we do have a section for it already, which is good enough.
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 02:14 PM
:sl:

How serious are you about unity? vote now.

:w:
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
07-12-2006, 02:17 PM
Salam,

Referring to the poll:

Yes, as long as I do not have to agree with what the History books say

are you talking about the Quran?

Wasalam
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
Salam,

Referring to the poll:

Yes, as long as I do not have to agree with what the History books say

are you talking about the Quran?

Wasalam
:sl:

All Muslims agree with the Quran, so that is out of question.

:w:
Reply

------
07-12-2006, 02:21 PM
All Muslims agree with the Quran, so that is out of question.
Good point.
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
07-12-2006, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

All Muslims agree with the Quran, so that is out of question.

:w:

Salam,

Please emphasize of 'History books.'

JazakAllah.

wasalam
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
Salam,

Please emphasize of 'History books.'

JazakAllah.

wasalam
:sl:

Books like Tareekul-Umam wal-Mulook and Al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah.

:w:
Reply

Ghazi
07-12-2006, 02:25 PM
:sl:

whats the point of having discussion on diffrent sects I don't belong to any sect I'm a muslim simple as, if people are freely allowed to discuss diffrent sects then stuff which isn't upon sunnah will be given as truth, if people wanna learn about diffrent sects then use the net and do your own reasrch but leave this forum alone cause this is not the place.
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
07-12-2006, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

Books like Tareekul-Umam wal-Mulook and Al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah.

:w:

:sl:
Whoa!Long name.
But, I do not know what it is.
Khaiyr..

Wasalam
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

whats the point of having discussion on diffrent sects I don't belong to any sect I'm a muslim simple as, if people are freely allowed to discuss diffrent sects then stuff which isn't upon sunnah will be given as truth, if people wanna learn about diffrent sects then use the net and do your own reasrch but leave this forum alone cause this is not the place.
:sl:

It is about what you are willing to do to get unity. I'm not a Sunni or Shia myself either. I'm just a Muslim, but there is still alot of division to remove; unless people are willing to do something, we might get only worse. As for leaving the forum; I'm not here for very long anyway, so you will not have anything to complain about.

:w:
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
07-12-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

whats the point of having discussion on diffrent sects I don't belong to any sect I'm a muslim simple as, if people are freely allowed to discuss diffrent sects then stuff which isn't upon sunnah will be given as truth, if people wanna learn about diffrent sects then use the net and do your own reasrch but leave this forum alone cause this is not the place.

:sl:
I was only talking about what 'history books' meant for the poll.
:?
Wasalam
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
:sl:
Whoa!Long name.
But, I do not know what it is.
Khaiyr..

Wasalam
:sl:

They are two books written by Ibn Katheer and Tabari.

:w:
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Ameeratul Layl
07-12-2006, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

They are two books written by Ibn Katheer and Tabari.

:w:

:sl:
Brother, it doesn't matter. I haven't heard of the books or the authors.
Wasalam
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
:sl:
Brother, it doesn't matter. I haven't heard of the books or the authors.
Wasalam
:sl:

Please refer to http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=80&chapter=3 for a quick info on Ibn Katheer. I'll look for something about Tabari Insha-Allah . . .

:w:
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Ameeratul Layl
07-12-2006, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

Please refer to http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=80&chapter=3 for a quick info on Ibn Katheer. I'll look for something about Tabari Insha-Allah . . .

:w:

:sl:

Sad childhood.

JazakAllah.

Wasalam
Reply

------
07-12-2006, 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

whats the point of having discussion on diffrent sects I don't belong to any sect I'm a muslim simple as, if people are freely allowed to discuss diffrent sects then stuff which isn't upon sunnah will be given as truth, if people wanna learn about diffrent sects then use the net and do your own reasrch but leave this forum alone cause this is not the place.
This deserves reps for deffo. Well said akhee! :thumbs_up
Reply

S_87
07-12-2006, 02:44 PM
:sl:

if people want to talk about different sects there are many such forums which welcome these discussions, or the way it goes most of the time there are many such forums who welcome these arguments. plus it causes rift between members as they debate like they think they are scholars or whatever.
this forum doesnt want such a thing so i think its only fair members accept the decision of the admins and assist them. its not like theyve totally blanked out sect talk as there is a whole section dedicated to such, only thing blanked out is the fighting of a group of teenagers who will defend what they believe is right
Reply

أحمد
07-12-2006, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by amani
:sl:

if people want to talk about different sects there are many such forums which welcome these discussions, or the way it goes most of the time there are many such forums who welcome these arguments. plus it causes rift between members as they debate like they think they are scholars or whatever.
this forum doesnt want such a thing so i think its only fair members accept the decision of the admins and assist them. its not like theyve totally blanked out sect talk as there is a whole section dedicated to such, only thing blanked out is the fighting of a group of teenagers who will defend what they believe is right
:sl:

This thread is about unity, not different sects!

:w:
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Ghazi
07-12-2006, 03:55 PM
:sl:

As for leaving the forum
Sorry akhi never ment you leave this forum just ment such things are against the rules and shouldn't be discussed again I apologies for any upset.
Reply

azim
07-12-2006, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

How serious are you about unity? vote now.

:w:
Asalaamu alaykum.

Bro, although I completely agree that unity is something we should strive for, I don't exactly see the point in this thread nor the poll.

There is no benefit in this, no one is learning anything from these pages and the poll is never going to be a true indication of peoples thoughts and opinions (i.e. what does 'as long as we dont have to agree with history books' actually refer to? its such an ambiguous statement that every person could read it differently).

Perhaps if you have any ideas on how we can unify, then share these ideas. However I don't see this thread going anywhere atm, and I fear it'll do more to divide the ummah then unify.

Salam.
Reply

Umm Yoosuf
07-12-2006, 07:30 PM
Hmmm....interesting :hmm:

Thread moved..
Reply

أحمد
07-13-2006, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Sorry akhi never ment you leave this forum just ment such things are against the rules and shouldn't be discussed again I apologies for any upset.
:sl:

The reason for me leaving the forum has nothing to do with why Halima or Sheikh Abdul Hakeem left. I never really joined the forum to stay for very long anyway. I'm here to do the little amount that I can, maybe I can get more success somewhere else in what I am working towards. Allah know's best.

:w:
Reply

Muhammad
07-13-2006, 10:45 AM
:sl:

I agree with Br. azim's post; this thread, if anything, seems to be dividing more than uniting anyone. I only just understood what was being said here, and so I apologise for the late reply, but I am quite surprised. Why should we disregard "history books" as you called them, when they were written by some of the greatest scholars in our past?

If anything, we should be learning from such books of knowledge as a step towards increasing our understanding of Islaam and uniting the Ummah thereby.

:w:
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أحمد
07-13-2006, 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl:

I agree with Br. azim's post; this thread, if anything, seems to be dividing more than uniting anyone. I only just understood what was being said here, and so I apologise for the late reply, but I am quite surprised. Why should we disregard "history books" as you called them, when they were written by some of the greatest scholars in our past?

If anything, we should be learning from such books of knowledge as a step towards increasing our understanding of Islaam and uniting the Ummah thereby.

:w:
:sl:

Have you actually read the first poat in this thread? It is not about disregarding the books, it is about getting people to actually start considering them, because at the moment all that can be seen is people teaching eachother lies to cover up the truth. To cover up one lie, many lies are told; until what people are taught becomes currupt.

If people do not wake up and read what these books say, then there will be more problems when it comes to history and hadeeth.

:w:
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Muhammad
07-13-2006, 10:56 AM
:sl:

I am sorry, perhaps I misunderstood you; I think I got that impression from the poll. It is unlikely that anyone will vote for the last 4 options unless they are non-Muslim.
Reply

أحمد
07-13-2006, 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by Muhammad
:sl:

I am sorry, perhaps I misunderstood you; I think I got that impression from the poll. It is unlikely that anyone will vote for the last 4 options unless they are non-Muslim.
:sl:

The poll is there to get people to think, not merely to just see what people might vote for. They might actually at some point see the importance of picking up the book and reading what it says. There is still plenty of knowledge stored in those books, we just have to read them.

:w:
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أحمد
07-13-2006, 11:25 AM
:sl:

A talk on Muslim unity. It was posted earlier on by someone on the UI forum: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=ishaq&pl=true

:w:
Reply

Ummah
07-13-2006, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by azim
Asalamu alaykum.

Regarding sectarian issues, I think it is a very good idea to restrict their discussion. Why? Look around the forum, there is a large number of youngsters, many of whom perhaps know little about different sects, their history etc... If they want to learn about the different sects, there is plenty of information in the respective sub-sections and on the internet in general.

The point is, sectarian issues should be discussed by those who have knowledge (deep knowledge). It shouldnt be discussed by youngsters and teenagers (even they might have an excellent understanding of the deen and history of Islam etc...) because its not our place to discuss it.

What benefit could come from allowing sectarian discussions?
Asalaamualaikum

agreed.
Reply

أحمد
07-14-2006, 09:20 AM
Originally Posted by Ummah

Quote:
Originally Posted by azim
Asalamu alaykum.

Regarding sectarian issues, I think it is a very good idea to restrict their discussion. Why? Look around the forum, there is a large number of youngsters, many of whom perhaps know little about different sects, their history etc... If they want to learn about the different sects, there is plenty of information in the respective sub-sections and on the internet in general.

The point is, sectarian issues should be discussed by those who have knowledge (deep knowledge). It shouldnt be discussed by youngsters and teenagers (even they might have an excellent understanding of the deen and history of Islam etc...) because its not our place to discuss it.

What benefit could come from allowing sectarian discussions?



Asalaamualaikum

agreed.
:sl:

Can we get back to the topic now?

:w:
Reply

Eddi
07-15-2006, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

Can we get back to the topic now?

:w:
:sl: Do you have a recorded or written version to your talk about the apple tree (from last year)?
Reply

أحمد
07-15-2006, 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by Eddi
:sl: Do you have a recorded or written version to your talk about the apple tree (from last year)?
:sl:

I haven't, but I can try to get hold of it from someone Insha-Allah. Or I can write another version of it; I still remember the topic.

:w:
Reply

Eddi
07-20-2006, 08:26 AM
Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:

I haven't, but I can try to get hold of it from someone Insha-Allah. Or I can write another version of it; I still remember the topic.

:w:
:sl:
Once you written it can you post a copy here and on your site inshallah
Reply

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