Brussels Muslim teachers fired over Hijab

[sonz]

Two female Muslim teachers in Brussels have been fired for refusing to take off their Islamic headscarf, or Hijab, Expatica reported.

Officials say the two Muslim teachers were fired after the Brussels public education system warned them against wearing the Hijab.

"In April 2005, the board of management of the Brussels school group decided that teachers, the same as students, were not allowed to wear noticeable religious symbols," said the director of the Brussels school group, Jacky Goris.

"The two Muslim teachers started the school year in September 2005 in acceptance with the regulation. But around the New Year, they suddenly started wearing a headscarf. That is a breach of contract."

Brussels Education Minister Guy Vanhengel backed the education system’s decision, and Flemish Education Minister Frank Vandenbroucke said schools are free to decide whether to ban the Islamic headscarf or not.

The two fired teachers are fighting their dismissal in the council of appeal, which is made up of a magistrate, backed by two public school staff members who aren’t part of the Brussels school group.

A final ruling is expected by the end of this month.

The Islamic headscarf is meant to cover a Muslim woman’s hair, neck, throat and the upper part of her chest to protect her from the eyes of men outside her family.

But the Hijab isn’t just about clothing, it is mainly to preserve women’s dignity and honor. In the Qur’an, Allah (SWT) instructs his followers on how to behave towards each other by saying in Surat An-Nur that all Muslim men and women should “lower the gaze”. Therefore, ordering a Muslim woman to remove her Hijab is like asking her to ignore one of her key religious obligations.

Unfortunately, the Hijab has been the subject of heated debate in several European countries for more than a decade. Several European states have banned Muslim civil servants, teachers and students from wearing the headscarf.

However, many Muslims in Europe succeeded in integrating themselves into their societies, while preserving their Islamic values and identities - following the basic governing Islamic rule in the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims: peaceful co-existence. The hard work has led to the recognition of Muslims in many European states, which has seen many Muslims entering the political process.

AlJazeera

[nennar]

salaam alaikum!

i have been thinking about the fear of the hiajb, and have come to this conclusion! that its not so much the hijab, they are against.... its Allah! (god) they are afraid of Allah!, we live in a wolrd where anyone only thinks of them selves and what they can get out of life..... and Allah has been forgotten.....subhanaallah.... and when we so wear our hijab its an insult to them.... because then allah comes closere to them... and remind them that there is some one greatere than them....

[Malaikah]

:sl:

Where is Brussels?

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah

its in belgium! but its not only there , there is problems with hijab!
denmark to !!!!! where i live

salaam nennar

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[Joe98]

...were not allowed to wear noticeable religious symbols

That mens the crucifix

THIS IS A HORRIBLE LAW.

THE CRUCIFIX OUGHT TO BE ALLOWED IN EVERY PLACE ON THE EARTH

ANYWHERE THE CRUCIFIX IS NOT ALLOWED WILL BE PUNISHED BY G-D (or however you spell it these days)

[Malaikah]

1. Is it compulsory for them to wear the cross?
2. Cant they just tuck it under their shirts?- its no longer noticable.:rollseyes

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!
i think one must remember that their level of faith is just not the same as ours!!!!!! and i really dont think, that because they wear the cross , that they are especially religios........ its like a broche to them..... its like they have to wear it to tell us! looook we believe in something to..... when thats said... there are of cause some one of them who believe...... and its not them who fights us

salaam nennar

[Sis786]

BY G-D (or however you spell it these days)[/B]

Gd i seen i thinks thats the new way

Anyway i think this stupid law is sooooo ...hmm stupid, Why stop this as this is going to help society. I mean France and other countries are not making the situation better by banning religious clothing.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!

you are 100% right!......
but dont you see???? they dont want to destroy what they have now!!!!!!! all the women walk a´round almost naked........ and the men love it....... the women have no dignity..... no hounor....... we live in a mens world.... still!!!!!!1 and then we come with our hijabs and wont follow the fashion... and their rules......sooooooo they must forbid the hijab before the women find their worth.........


a salaam nennar

[sameer]

Assalamu Alikum,


^^ Nice point Nennar......... somehow most non-muslims find it hard to believe that the so called free women are really slaves to their men revered only for their bodies. It is no surprsie the amount of eating disorders among young girls and women that circulate in the western world, not to mention the constant quest for cosmetic surgery to attain "the perfect LOOK and BODY". This shows the low self esteem and self worth among these women and how cheaply they sell themselves to the men.

[KAding]

salaam alaikum!

i have been thinking about the fear of the hiajb, and have come to this conclusion! that its not so much the hijab, they are against.... its Allah ! (god)

I agree. Thats exactly what they are against, your version of God. The hijab is just a symbol for both sides.

they are afraid of Allah!, we live in a wolrd where anyone only thinks of them selves and what they can get out of life..... and Allah has been forgotten.....subhanaallah.... and when we so wear our hijab its an insult to them.... because then allah comes closere to them... and remind them that there is some one greatere than them....

Well, no. They do not accept him. At least, not like many Muslims view him. Your argument does not make sense. If they would believe in your God they would also obey him. It is sheer lunacy to believe in an all-powerful God, but reject his rulings.

[HeiGou]

somehow most non-muslims find it hard to believe that the so called free women are really slaves to their men revered only for their bodies.

Really? Ruth Bader Ginsburg sat on the US Supreme Court recently. Are you telling me that she only got there because men revered her for her body? If the Muslim world really does revere women for their minds you ought to be able to point me to a Muslim woman who has achieved the same. Can you? It is true that some women get elected to high positions in the Muslim world, but usually only if they are some man's daughter or widow. Britain has had a female Prime Minister who was not, I would think, revered for her body. Can you tell me of a single female Prime Minister in the Muslim world who was not related to some more important man?

This shows the low self esteem and self worth among these women and how cheaply they sell themselves to the men.

And yet the West has women like Carly Fiorina (who I admit I quite fancy for some reason so I am not sure if she is purely admired for her brains) - can you tell me a Muslim woman who has risen to the top of a multi-national company in the Muslim world without the backing of her family? The West has had great authors like George Sand and Jane Austen. If Muslim women were renowned for their intelligence and achivements and not their looks perhaps you could tell me of the names of a couple of pre-1900 Muslima writers and authors?

[KAding]

1. Is it compulsory for them to wear the cross?

Compulsory? No, in fact its not allowed for teachers. At least not openly.

But in Belgium it's left to the individual schools to decide this matter. There is no law on it, only school regulations.

2. Cant they just tuck it under their shirts?- its no longer noticable.:rollseyes

They can yes, then it would be allowed. Maybe the Muslim teachers should try the same with the hijab. Like put a wig on top of it or something. Or a big hat :giggling:.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!

excuse me?????? where do you live????? on the moon????? do you really think that because ONE woman (ruth bader ginsburg) was on the surprime court..... that its so special????? what do you know of her life???? what do you know of her struggles???? its not easy to be a woman... i know that! i have just put my hijab on.... because i wanted to live like all the THE other women .... but could not live up to the STANDARD of the so called free women.... and dont see the purpose in in selling my self.. everyday

[HeiGou]

excuse me?????? where do you live????? on the moon????? do you really think that because ONE woman (ruth bader ginsburg) was on the surprime court..... that its so special?????

Ruth Bader Ginsburg was actually the second woman to sit on the Supreme Court. Sandra Day O'Connor was the first. It may not be special, but it is something. No doubt in the Muslim world where women are only appreciated for their intelligence and not their looks there will be dozens of women in the same level of society without being anyone's sister, daughter or widow - right?

what do you know of her life???? what do you know of her struggles???? its not easy to be a woman... i know that!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Bader_Ginsburg

My question is, what does it matter? What is your point?

i have just put my hijab on.... because i wanted to live like all the THE other women .... but could not live up to the STANDARD of the so called free women.... and dont see the purpose in in selling my self.. everyday

I am happy that you have found something that makes you happy but I do not see the relevance. You do not have to sell yourself every day and saying so does not make it true. The West allows silly girls to drape themselves over cars. It also allows Ruth Bader Ginsburg to sit on the Supreme Court and Carly Fiorina to run a major multi-national corporation. I don't approve of one, but I do approve of the other. Don't you think it would have been more fair of you to acknowledge both sorts of careers for women in the West?

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah! brother sameer! you are so right! women do all kind of things to them selves because they are scared to be alone and undesired... subhanallah its so sad! there is something called iner beauty

salaam nennar

[Sis786]

And yet the West has women like Carly Fiorina (who I admit I quite fancy for some reason so I am not sure if she is purely admired for her brains) - can you tell me a Muslim woman who has risen to the top of a multi-national company in the Muslim world without the backing of her family? The West has had great authors like George Sand and Jane Austen. If Muslim women were renowned for their intelligence and achivements and not their looks perhaps you could tell me of the names of a couple of pre-1900 Muslima writers and authors?

;D I had to check this woman out and man you have BAD taste ;D

Anyway yes there are Muslim women that are famous for thier writing and so on but most these women are abroad and thier writing isnt very popular!

Tamina Durani is one her book "My FEUDAL LORD" is an amazing read

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!

thank you so much sister! for your input!!!!!! i am still a new learner... so i to have a lot to learn




have a nice day! and allahs blessing be upon you

[sameer]

^^^ yes I agree that some women in the west have risen to extradinary heights in terms of their acheivements.... but can u tell me that the majority of women fall into this category? and also y every beer, cigarette, magazine, sport, car avertisment have to use women to lure buyers?

also there are no "Islamic" country in the world today...jsut countries that have a lot of muslims living there. None of these countries are run acccording to coorect islamic law and guidelines according the sunnah and Quran. If women are kept down in these countries, it is because of cutural practices and not islam. In terms of women being elected as prime minister...in an ideal muslim world....the muslims wont be run by a prime minister but by an Ameer which is male. There can be ameeras (female leaders among women) but the ultimate leader would be a male, again this leader would be selected by the guidlines set by the rasool (saw)
Maybe the educated muslims here can correct me if i am wrong? Or maybe explain it better than me cause i am not good at this.?

You spoke about pre1900s authors writers etc....what kind of books do u speak of? there are many islamic scholars that were muslim women
eg. Ayesha(r) the wife of the prophet (saw) she had known the most hadith and men respected her and would come to her for judgements and advice on various issues. Today almost all muslims live thier lives according to her narrations of what the prophet(saw) did or said. U or no muslim man sould cry down women in islam ...after all the first person to accept islam was a woman - khadijah (r).

..tell me what was the status of western women pre 1900s? where they allowed the rite of inheritance? alimony? divorce? the right to property? the right to control her own estate? etc Islam has givin women these rights since 1400 years ago....the west only gave them this right 100 yrs ago....oh yeah..and the right to vote and opinion? check when westerm women got this right.


I have said what i said and i pray that Allah forgive me for any worng.

[sameer]

sister nennar,
your are right to ask of the struggles of the western women.
http://www.wic.org/misc/history.htm
heres a link showing some of the dates that these "free" women got some of their rites....oh yeah..they had to struggle for it.....
while the rights of our sisters was given by Allah over 1400 years ago...in a time (b4 islam) where men used to bury their girl childeren alive beacuse it was though to be an insult or bad omen to have girl children and no sons.

The west has advantages for women (no thanks to their men).....but seems to me u are playing catch-up.

[HeiGou]

And yet the West has women like Carly Fiorina (who I admit I quite fancy for some reason so I am not sure if she is purely admired for her brains) - can you tell me a Muslim woman who has risen to the top of a multi-national company in the Muslim world without the backing of her family? The West has had great authors like George Sand and Jane Austen. If Muslim women were renowned for their intelligence and achivements and not their looks perhaps you could tell me of the names of a couple of pre-1900 Muslima writers and authors?

;D I had to check this woman out and man you have BAD taste ;D

Yeah I know. People give me a hard time every time her name comes up. But she is certainly smart and was funny before the stress got to her. A little too old for me though (aside from the whole "being married to someone else" thing).

Anyway yes there are Muslim women that are famous for thier writing and so on but most these women are abroad and thier writing isnt very popular!

Tamina Durani is one her book "My FEUDAL LORD" is an amazing read

Whose side are you on? Really? Tehmina Durrani? That sounds a terrible book! The poor woman. It is awful that things like that happen. Although, of course, she is not writing before 1900.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!
wo allah brother sameer! that just my point! yhank you for giving your input!

the women of the west in the 1900s wherent allowed to do anything! there place was in the home and did they try to do something, were they called names and looked at.....women where not considret intelligent.... hmmm i some time wunder....

about islamic countrys? you are right there is no true islamic country anymore... there only muslims living in this countries.... its so sad but you are right....

about women writers! as i said i am a new comer and dont know so much about how many there are, but there are some good

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!

again you are so right brother sameer! we where freed 1400 years ago! al hamdoulillah...

and about women in the west! they are only something if they are famous in sports , films, and so on ! but most of them have power through money...... and thats AGAIN through FAMILY

[HeiGou]

I agree that some women in the west have risen to extradinary heights in terms of their acheivements.... but can u tell me that the majority of women fall into this category? and also y every beer, cigarette, magazine, sport, car avertisment have to use women to lure buyers?

I do not know if the majority do. I know of a lot of women who work and do well in their careers. The point though is they can. If they do not want to (like two of my cousins who retired recently to be full time Mothers) they can do that too. Isn't that something? I guess because it works.

also there are no "Islamic" country in the world today...jsut countries that have a lot of muslims living there. None of these countries are run acccording to coorect islamic law and guidelines according the sunnah and Quran.

True.

If women are kept down in these countries, it is because of cutural practices and not islam. In terms of women being elected as prime minister...in an ideal muslim world....the muslims wont be run by a prime minister but by an Ameer which is male. There can be ameeras (female leaders among women) but the ultimate leader would be a male, again this leader would be selected by the guidlines set by the rasool (saw)
Maybe the educated muslims here can correct me if i am wrong? Or maybe explain it better than me cause i am not good at this.?

So what you are saying is that in so far as they are kept down more than is Islamically acceptable it is not Islamic? I understand women cannot be Amir although I often wonder about how sound that is. Not my problem at any rate.

You spoke about pre1900s authors writers etc....what kind of books do u speak of? there are many islamic scholars that were muslim women
eg. Ayesha(r) the wife of the prophet (saw) she had known the most hadith and men respected her and would come to her for judgements and advice on various issues.

I admit that. Although in fairness they only did that because she knew Muhammed - she was a widow - not because of her own qualities. There were Muslim women teachers. Ibn Tammiya had more than one. But they are not frequent and they seem to become less so with time. Any writers. There are many many great Arab poets. How many great women Arab poets are there?

U or no muslim man sould cry down women in islam ...after all the first person to accept islam was a woman - khadijah (r).

The important word there is "should". Can we agree that they do?

..tell me what was the status of western women pre 1900s? where they allowed the rite of inheritance?

Yes.

alimony? divorce?

Depends where they were. Divorce was usually hard although traditionally in the West legal separation was allowed. Men had to support their wives even after such a separation.

the right to property? the right to control her own estate? etc

There was a period in Britain from the late eighteenth century or so until the 1882 Married Women's Property Act where women did not control their property, although they did own it, once they were married. But outside Britain that did not apply. Medieval women are notable for their importance in the economy and their property rights.

Islam has givin women these rights since 1400 years ago....the west only gave them this right 100 yrs ago....oh yeah..and the right to vote and opinion? check when westerm women got this right.

Well yes and no. When did Pakistani women get the right to vote?

And it is interesting, don't you think, that from Aisha to European colonialism there are so few prominent Muslim women in the Muslim world. Why do you think that is?

[Sis786]

Yeah I know. People give me a hard time every time her name comes up. But she is certainly smart and was funny before the stress got to her. A little too old for me though (aside from the whole "being married to someone else" thing).

Yeah im SURE HeiGou she was single she would def be yours!

Whose side are you on? Really? Tehmina Durrani? That sounds a terrible book! The poor woman. It is awful that things like that happen. Although, of course, she is not writing before 1900.

From reading that book Tehmina's it was really well writen, Also another example is the Princess from Saudi that shared her story with Jean Sasson what a women but her society and family never allowed her to come out but we need more women like that!

Have u read My Feudal Lord!

[sameer]

when did pakistan become a country? in the 20th century..so how can u compare pakistan to the west which is independant for centuries.
even men votes dont matter in pakistan beacuse they are run by a military goverment. Wasnt there a woman prime minister in pakistan? yes there was...also Bangladesh - which is 100% muslim.
:::
Benazir Bhutto (1953-)
Prime Minister of Pakistan from 2 Dec 1988 to 6 Aug 1990, and again from 19 Oct 1993 to 5 Nov 1996. Daughter of former ruler Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (president in 1971-1973 and prime minister in 1972-1977), who was overthrown in 1977 and executed by the military regime of general Zia ul-Haq in 1979, belongs to the selected group of Asian women leaders, along with Sri Lanka's Chandrika Kumaratunga, Bangladesh' Khaleda Zia and Hasina Wajed, Burma's Aung San Suu Kyi, Indonesia's Megawati Sukarnoputri or Japan's Takako Doi. Additionally, she is credited with being the first woman prime minister of a muslim country.

[sameer]

i wonder when would USA get a woman president? or a male president from the minorities?

[HeiGou]

the women of the west in the 1900s wherent allowed to do anything! there place was in the home and did they try to do something, were they called names and looked at.....women where not considret intelligent.... hmmm i some time wunder....

This is absurd. I don't want to be rude, but do you know anything about Western history at all?

These are the dates for the founding of Women's Colleges in the United States,

1770s

* Salem College - founded in 1772 as the first all-female school in the United States, a female academy in 1866, and a women's college in 1890

[edit]

19th century
[edit]

1830s

* LaGrange College - founded in 1831 as a female academy, it became LaGrange Female College in 1851, and coeducational in 1953
* Stephens College - founded in 1833 as the Columbia Female Academy, it became a college in 1856 (The Columbia Female Baptist Academy), and was renamed Stephens Female College at a later date
* Wheaton College, Massachusetts - founded in 1834 as a female seminary, Wheaton became a college in 1912 and coeducational in 1987
* Wesleyan College - originally Georgia Female College, it was first chartered in 1836, but did not open its doors to students until 1839
* Mount Holyoke College - originally founded as Mount Holyoke Female Seminary in 1837, it became Mount Holyoke Seminary and College in 1888 and Mount Holyoke College in 1893
* Judson College (Alabama) - originally founded in 1838 as the Judson Female Institute, it became Judson College in 1903

[edit]

1840s

* Saint Mary-of-the-Woods College - founded in 1840
* Synodical College - founded in 1842 as the Fulton Female Academy
* Hollins College - originally established in 1842 as Valley Union Seminary (coeducational), it became a school for women in 1852, and was renamed Hollins Institute in 1855, Hollins College in 1911, and Hollins University in 1998
* Mary Baldwin College - originally founded in 1842 as the Augusta Female Seminary
* Saint Mary's College (Indiana) - founded by the Sisters of the Holy Cross in 1844
* MacMurray College - founded in 1846 as the Illinois Conference Female Academy, in 1851, Illinois Female College in 1863 and MacMurray College in 1930 (it is now coeducational)
* Midway College - originally founded in 1847 as the Kentucky Female Orphan School
* Moore College of Art and Design - originally founded in 1848 as Philadelphia School of Design for Women
* Chowan University - founded in 1848 as Chowan Baptist Female Institute
* The Oread Institute - founded in 1849, it is now closed
* Tift College - founded in 1849 as the Forsyth Female Collegiate Institute

[edit]

1850s

* Mills College - originally founded as the Young Ladies Seminary in 1852, it became Mills Seminary in 1866, and Mills College in 1885
* Ohio Wesleyan Female College - originally founded in 1853, it merged with Ohio Wesleyan University in 1877
* Andrew College - founded in 1854 as Andrew Female College
* Elmira College - founded in 1855
* Western College for Women - founded in 1855 as Western Female Seminary
* Peace College - founded in 1857 as the Peace Institute

[edit]

1860s

* Vassar College - founded in 1861, it declined an offer to merge with Yale University and became coeducational in 1969
* Cedar Crest College - founded in 1867
* Wells College - founded in 1868, it became coeducational in 2005
* Chatham College - founded in 1869 as the Pennsylvania Female College, it became the Pennsylvania College for Women in 1890, and Chatham College in 1955
* Wilson College - founded in 1869

[edit]

1870s

* Wellesley College - originally founded in 1870 as the Wellesley Female Seminary, it was renamed Wellesley College in 1873 and opened its doors to students in 1875
* Ursuline College - founded in 1871
* Smith College - founded in 1871
* Mount Mary College - originally founded as St. Mary's Institute in 1872, it became St. Mary's College in 1913, and Mount Mary College in 1929
* Bennett College - originally founded in 1873 as a coeducational school, it became a women's college in 1926
* College of Notre Dame of Maryland - founded in 1873
* Blue Mountain College - founded in 1873 as the Blue Mountain Female Institute
* Brenau University - founded as the Georgia Baptist Female Seminary in 1878, it became Brenau College in 1900, and Brenau University in 1992
* Radcliffe College - originally created in 1879 as the Harvard Annex, it was chartered as Radcliffe College by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in 1894; Radcliffe is now a part of Harvard University

[edit]

1880s

* Spelman College - originally founded in 1881 and called the Atlanta Baptist Female Seminary, it was renamed Spelman Seminary in 1884 and Spelman College in 1924
* Bryn Mawr College - founded in 1885
* Goucher College - founded in 1885 as The Women's College of Baltimore and was was renamed Goucher College in 1910
* H. Sophie Newcomb Memorial College - founded in 1886
* Converse College - founded in 1889
* Agnes Scott College - founded in 1889 as the Decatur Female Seminary, it became the Agnes Scott Institute in 1890, and Agnes Scott College in 1906
* Barnard College - founded in 1889

[edit]

1890s

* Meredith College - originally founded in 1891 as the Baptist Female University, it became the Baptist University for Women, in 1891, and Meredith College in 1909
* Randolph-Macon Woman's College - founded in 1891, doors opened 1893
* Simmons College - founded in 1899
* College of Saint Elizabeth - founded in 1899, it became the Mary Baldwin Seminary in 1895, and the Mary Baldwin College in 1923

And this is a list of historical female colleges in the United Kingdom

England

* Bedford College, University of London, London (1849, became co-ed in 1965)
* Girton College, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1869, became co-ed in 1979)
* Lady Margaret Hall, University of Oxford, Oxford (1879, became co-ed in 1979)
* Lucy Cavendish College, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1965)
* New Hall, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1954)
* Newnham College, University of Cambridge, Cambridge (1871)
* Royal Holloway, University of London, London (1879, became co-ed in 1965)
* Somerville College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1879, became co-ed in 1994)
* St Anne's College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1879, became co-ed in 1979)
* St Hilda's College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1893, became co-ed in 2006)
* St Hugh's College, University of Oxford, Oxford (1886, became co-ed in 1986)

[edit]

Scotland

* Edinburgh School of Medicine for Women, Edinburgh (operated 1886-1898)

If they thought women were so stupid why did they open so many university colleges for them?

[HeiGou]

when did pakistan become a country? in the 20th century..so how can u compare pakistan to the west which is independant for centuries.

Easily. Pakistan is heir to 1400 years of Muslim history and even more Indian history. It is the site of one of the first civilisations. What does its date of independence matter?

even men votes dont matter in pakistan beacuse they are run by a military goverment. Wasnt there a woman prime minister in pakistan? yes there was...also Bangladesh - which is 100% muslim.

As I said - in the feudal parts of the Muslim world women get elected because they are the daughter of Someone, the widow of Someone. Do they get elected in their own right? Ruth Bader Ginsburg was not the daughter or widow of Someone. She got there on her own. See the difference?

Sri Lanka's Chandrika Kumaratunga, Bangladesh' Khaleda Zia and Hasina Wajed, Burma's Aung San Suu Kyi, Indonesia's Megawati Sukarnoputri or Japan's Takako Doi.

It is not a Muslim problem

Chandrika Bandaranaike (born June 29, 1945) was the 5th President of Sri Lanka and 4th Executive President of Sri Lanka (November 12, 1994 - November 19, 2005). She is the leader of the Sri Lanka Freedom Party.

Her father, Solomon Bandaranaike, was a government Minister at the time of her birth and later became Prime Minister - he was assassinated in 1959 when Chandrika was fourteen. After his death, his wife (Chandrika's mother) Sirimavo Bandaranaike, became the world's first female Prime Minister in 1960

Khaleda Zia (Bangla: খালেদা জিয়া) (born 15 August 1945) is the Prime Minister of Bangladesh. She was Prime Minister from 1991 to 1996, the first woman in the country's history to hold that position, and then again from 2001 to the present. She is the widow of assassinated president Ziaur Rahman, and leads his old party, the Bangladesh Nationalist Party.

Sheikh Hasina Wajed (Bangla: শেখ হাসিনা ওয়াজেদ) (born September 28, 1947) was the Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1996 to 2001. She has been the President of the Awami League, a major political party in Bangladesh, since 1981. She is the eldest of five children of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, the nationalist leader and first president of Bangladesh.

Aung San Suu Kyi, the daughter of General Aung San, was born on the 19 June 1945. Aung San, Suu Kyi's father, who negotiated Burma's independence from the United Kingdom in 1947, was assassinated by rivals in the same year.

Diah Permata Megawati Setiawati Soekarnoputri (born January 23, 1947), was President of Indonesia from July 2001 to October 20, 2004. She was the country's first female President.

Megawati was born in Yogyakarta, the second child and eldest daughter of Sukarno, then the president of Indonesia, which had declared its independence from the Netherlands in 1945. Her mother Fatmawati was one of Sukarno's nine wives. Megawati grew up in luxury in her father's Merdeka Palace.

Only one of those got into power because of who she was as opposed to who her Father or Husband was.

[sameer]

so u think there are not schools for muslim women too? I'm not sure if u know, but there are muslim women who are doctors, lawyers, programmers, buisness women,teachers, engineers etc..
All those schools....how much of ure women goto those school?? dont the women number into the millions? and over centuries?hmmmmm...... and imagine all those schools...and still the women have to resort to all kind of degrading things (such as wearing tight fitted or short clothes) to get a job....or to make it to the "top" (remember monica lewinski). Imagine they dont even get the same wages..i wonder why? i wonder why models and singers, and porn stars probaly make more money than the women who went to these colleges.I wonder y the girls feel the need to be a cheer leeder in mini skirts or popular in school? and i wonder y the not so "sexy" girls never get to be cheer leaders?
I wonder y not so "sexy" women cant be pop stars or leading actresses?
I think u need to check whats being thought in those colleges and the other schools.

[HeiGou]

Yeah im SURE HeiGou she was single she would def be yours!

Hey Muhammed married an older richer woman who was sort of a CEO in her time. Can't be all bad.

Have u read My Feudal Lord!

No but I have ordered it now so I'll get back to you. The description sounded bad enough. Poor woman. Durrani means she a Pashtun no?

[sameer]

i raised the point of pakistan independece beacuse u asked when did pakistani women get the right to vote....? why would they vote if they are not a country?
and b4 they were paskistan..they were a part of india...- which is not an "islamic" state.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!
wauw! yah i can see that you have found some women , and their work, i am sure is apprisiated, but ... when i say but... its not the case anymore.... more and more of your women dont have and education..... and these women you wrote about.... perhaps its 200 at the most, while there are over 100 million women now and most of them are underpaid, and have to take crappy work

[sameer]

listen....i like living inthe west. its where ive lived my entire life....and there are many freedoms here dat dosent exist in the puppet government runned "islamic" countries.
but i think u missed the point and i also veered offcourse with the intention of my origna post. Most women in the west are slaves in their manner of thinking. U cant deny that. Yes there are schools and opportunites...but how many women take advantage of these? They dont see the need to..cause they can do the "accepted" thing and expose their legs and more to get where they want.
If u look at television....lets say the disney channel..whats the main message and who is the main target? its young girls.....and the encouragement is to emmulate britney spears etc.... the encouragement is to have boyfirends from young ages........is to wear make up and fancy dresses with expensive brands, is to loose their viginity...and look at those who are virgins as wierdos...is to have one big dream...thats the prom and the prom night. I wonder whats left for these girls and boys on the wedding night now?

[M H Kahn]

Unfortunately, the Hijab has been the subject of heated debate in several European countries for more than a decade. Several European states have banned Muslim civil servants, teachers and students from wearing the headscarf.

:sl:
But the believers, willing to love Allah and submit to His law, have to accept such deprivations gladly in order to be rewarded by Allah.

[KAding]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!
wauw! yah i can see that you have found some women , and their work, i am sure is apprisiated, but ... when i say but... its not the case anymore.... more and more of your women dont have and education.....

Huh? What are you talking about? Over half the people in my year at university are women. In fact, more women actually get a university degree then men in most of the West:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ed...warded-females

Literacy rates are also as high among women as among men.

and these women you wrote about.... perhaps its 200 at the most, while there are over 100 million women now and most of them are underpaid, and have to take crappy work

Often they still get paid less then men, that is true. A disgrace if you ask me. But to say women have 'crappy' jobs seems unfounded to me.

[AHMED_GUREY]

Really? Ruth Bader Ginsburg sat on the US Supreme Court recently. Are you telling me that she only got there because men revered her for her body?

If the Muslim world really does revere women for their minds you ought to be able to point me to a Muslim woman who has achieved the same. Can you? It is true that some women get elected to high positions in the Muslim world, but usually only if they are some man's daughter or widow. Britain has had a female Prime Minister who was not, I would think, revered for her body. Can you tell me of a single female Prime Minister in the Muslim world who was not related to some more important man?

And yet the West has women like Carly Fiorina (who I admit I quite fancy for some reason so I am not sure if she is purely admired for her brains) - can you tell me a Muslim woman who has risen to the top of a multi-national company in the Muslim world without the backing of her family?

you need to understand that the western view of an ''important'' woman ''respected'' in her society and the islamic perspective are not the same

the west might view the traditional family based structure as an excuse to hold women back

but Islam definitly doesn't view it that way

it's the muslim sister who's been given a job far more important than one of a prime minister or a CEO of a multinational company so please don't compare something as noble as motherhood to these inferior positions

the muslim sister is the one who will influence and shape the society she's in

she is the backbone of the Islamic Ummah

the west where for the last 30 years having both parents employed became a phenomenon are facing serious problems like children being abused in daycare or children growing up with no parental guidance and turning into criminals

Islam doesn't need to proof itself to an western ideologie like democracy

It was muslim scholars who brought the west out of the Dark age

the fact that in Islam it's stated that Heaven is under a woman's feet (mother) says enough for me and it's view towards my sisters

The West has had great authors like George Sand and Jane Austen. If Muslim women were renowned for their intelligence and achivements and not their looks perhaps you could tell me of the names of a couple of pre-1900 Muslima writers and authors?

fictional stories are irrelevant to a muslim society we care about the teachings of Islam

great female islamic scholars VVV

Umm al-Darda 700 AD

was regarded by some of her contemporary leading male traditionists as "superior to all the other traditionists of the period, including the celebrated masters of hadith like al-Hasan al-Basri and Ibn Sirin." 'Amra was specially recognized for her authority on traditions related by A'isha and among her many notable students was Abu Bakr ibn Hazm, the celebrated judge of Medina, who was ordered by none other than the caliph Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz himself to write down all the traditions known on her authority.

Zaynab bint Sulayman 759 AD

gained a reputation as one of the most distinguished women traditionists of the time, and counted many important men among her pupils."

Karima al-Marwaziyya 1144 AD

is one of those names that we should proudly know and remember, "who was considered the best authority on the Sahih of al-Bukhari in her own time. Abu Dharr of Herat, one of the leading scholars of the period, attached such great importance to her authority that he advised his students to study the Sahih under no one else, because of the quality of her scholarship." Among her students were al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, a noted Islamic scholar and historian.

Fatima bint Muhammad 1178 AD

received from her contemporary hadith specialists "the proud tittle of Musnida Isfahan (the great hadith authority of Isfahan)." Shuhda 'the Writer' "was a famous calligrapher and a traditionist of great repute ... Her lectures on Sahih al-Bukhari and other hadith collections were attended by large crowds of students; and on account of her great reputation, some people even falsely claimed to have been her disciples.

Sitt al-Wuzara 1316

became well-known as an authority on Bukhari. Her acclaimed mastery included Islamic law as well. Crowned as 'the musnida of her time', she delivered public lectures on the Sahih and other works in Damascus and Egypt.

Zaynab bint Ahmad 1139 AD

used to deliver public lectures the Musnad of Abu Hanifa, the Shamail of al-Tirmidhi, and the Sharh Ma'ani al-Athar of al-Tahawi. Do we remember the great traveler Ibn Battuta? He studied hadith with her and various other women during his stay at Damascus.

masha-allah may allah grant these great sisters Jannah Amiin :happy:

[HeiGou]

yah i can see that you have found some women , and their work, i am sure is apprisiated, but ... when i say but... its not the case anymore.... more and more of your women dont have and education..... and these women you wrote about.... perhaps its 200 at the most, while there are over 100 million women now and most of them are underpaid, and have to take crappy work

In my previous job my manager was a woman. Her manager was a woman. So was her's. The next two up were men and then the top boss was a woman. This organisation had a turn over of over 120 million pounds a year.

Not all women have underpaid jobs.

[HeiGou]

you need to understand that the western view of an ''important'' woman ''respected'' in her society and the islamic perspective are not the same

Well that is obvious.

the west might view the traditional family based structure as an excuse to hold women back

but Islam definitly doesn't view it that way

Well no. What you mean is that the West may view of the traditional family structure as holding women back, but Muslims do not see it that way.

it's the muslim sister who's been given a job far more important than one of a prime minister or a CEO of a multinational company so please don't compare something as noble as motherhood to these inferior positions

Hmm, interesting that when women get the chance so many of them prefer being Prime Minister or CEO to that noble role - or in the West doing both. Why can't a woman combine both roles?

the muslim sister is the one who will influence and shape the society she's in

she is the backbone of the Islamic Ummah

I would agree with that. If she is ignorant and uneducated so will her children be.

the west where for the last 30 years having both parents employed became a phenomenon are facing serious problems like children being abused in daycare or children growing up with no parental guidance and turning into criminals

As opposed to Western Muslims who are far less likely to have a Mother who works but are also far more likely to be in jail or in trouble with the law? And aren't you Somali in origin? A community that in Britain has exceptional low rates of education, women's participation in the workforce but also high rates of criminal activity among the young.

Islam doesn't need to proof itself to an western ideologie like democracy

Never suggested it did.

It was muslim scholars who brought the west out of the Dark age

Well I don't agree but even if it is true, what have you done for us lately?

great female islamic scholars VVV

Umm al-Darda 700 AD

Zaynab bint Sulayman 759 AD

gained a reputation as one of the most distinguished women traditionists of the time, and counted many important men among her pupils."

Karima al-Marwaziyya 1144 AD

Fatima bint Muhammad 1178 AD

Sitt al-Wuzara 1316

Zaynab bint Ahmad 1139 AD

masha-allah may allah grant these great sisters Jannah Amiin :happy:

Indeed. And yet all the searching by Muslim websites has only found six. Interesting.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah

my dear brother sameer! thats just my point!!!!! its only the pretty women who live get far .... and its the outerbeauty, not there innerbeauty... unless you are veiling to undergo the knife.... in the west they dont incouraging inner beauty... but we get told from a early age that if you wanna get some where you most have the look.....

HEIGOU! it semes to me that you dont really know what you are talking about!!!!!! u just wanted to be apart off the discussion, thats okay to.... but not many off you women are really free..... and about your cousins... i think its good they choose to stay home with they children.. but again its their husbands who have to work to make it happend

[sameer]

you need to understand that the western view of an ''important'' woman ''respected'' in her society and the islamic perspective are not the same

the west might view the traditional family based structure as an excuse to hold women back

but Islam definitly doesn't view it that way

it's the muslim sister who's been given a job far more important than one of a prime minister or a CEO of a multinational company so please don't compare something as noble as motherhood to these inferior positions

the muslim sister is the one who will influence and shape the society she's in

she is the backbone of the Islamic Ummah

the west where for the last 30 years having both parents employed became a phenomenon are facing serious problems like children being abused in daycare or children growing up with no parental guidance and turning into criminals

Islam doesn't need to proof itself to an western ideologie like democracy

It was muslim scholars who brought the west out of the Dark age

the fact that in Islam it's stated that Heaven is under a woman's feet (mother) says enough for me and it's view towards my sisters




fictional stories are irrelevant to a muslim society we care about the teachings of Islam

great female islamic scholars VVV

Umm al-Darda 700 AD

was regarded by some of her contemporary leading male traditionists as "superior to all the other traditionists of the period, including the celebrated masters of hadith like al-Hasan al-Basri and Ibn Sirin." 'Amra was specially recognized for her authority on traditions related by A'isha and among her many notable students was Abu Bakr ibn Hazm, the celebrated judge of Medina, who was ordered by none other than the caliph Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz himself to write down all the traditions known on her authority.

Zaynab bint Sulayman 759 AD

gained a reputation as one of the most distinguished women traditionists of the time, and counted many important men among her pupils."

Karima al-Marwaziyya 1144 AD

is one of those names that we should proudly know and remember, "who was considered the best authority on the Sahih of al-Bukhari in her own time. Abu Dharr of Herat, one of the leading scholars of the period, attached such great importance to her authority that he advised his students to study the Sahih under no one else, because of the quality of her scholarship." Among her students were al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, a noted Islamic scholar and historian.

Fatima bint Muhammad 1178 AD

received from her contemporary hadith specialists "the proud tittle of Musnida Isfahan (the great hadith authority of Isfahan)." Shuhda 'the Writer' "was a famous calligrapher and a traditionist of great repute ... Her lectures on Sahih al-Bukhari and other hadith collections were attended by large crowds of students; and on account of her great reputation, some people even falsely claimed to have been her disciples.

Sitt al-Wuzara 1316

became well-known as an authority on Bukhari. Her acclaimed mastery included Islamic law as well. Crowned as 'the musnida of her time', she delivered public lectures on the Sahih and other works in Damascus and Egypt.

Zaynab bint Ahmad 1139 AD

used to deliver public lectures the Musnad of Abu Hanifa, the Shamail of al-Tirmidhi, and the Sharh Ma'ani al-Athar of al-Tahawi. Do we remember the great traveler Ibn Battuta? He studied hadith with her and various other women during his stay at Damascus.

masha-allah may allah grant these great sisters Jannah Amiin :happy:

^^ ameen

well put brother.:)

[sameer]

anyways...I'm off to Jummah sallaah
Assalamu Alikum everyone :thankyou:

[Ghazi]

anyways...I'm off to Jummah sallaah
Assalamu Alikum everyone :thankyou:

:sl:

Crazy time diffrence It's almost asar in the uk.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!
again brother sameer you are right!!!! it apolling so many children who get abused..... or how many children who just wandrer in the streets.... i know life is not easy... but that goes for all people... i just saw dr phil today! with all the teen pregnancys.... whta kind of life is that???? you have so many children in fosterhomes..... its so sad! and if you society is good why does so many live in the streets?? women mostly

[AHMED_GUREY]

Well that is obvious.

yet you still ask questions

Well no. What you mean is that the West may view of the traditional family structure as holding women back, but Muslims do not see it that way.

reread what you just typed

a muslim is a person who follows islam therefore an muslim view is automaticly an islamic derrived view so my comment was on point!

Hmm, interesting that when women get the chance so many of them prefer being Prime Minister or CEO to that noble role - or in the West doing both. Why can't a woman combine both roles?

show statistics to back your claims

i'll be waiting

As opposed to Western Muslims who are far less likely to have a Mother who works but are also far more likely to be in jail or in trouble with the law? And aren't you Somali in origin? A community that in Britain has exceptional low rates of education, women's participation in the workforce but also high rates of criminal activity among the young.

translation i have nothing else to say so i resort to ad hominem comments

2 somalis shooting a police officer doesn't qualify as high rates of criminal activity among the general community

what i do see is somali males being harassed by the police after that incident

the somali communities are setting up shops and malls on their own and making ''do'' the hard way evendo they are struggling

they will over come it

http://www.wakiil.com/Business%20Community.htm

but it's funny how somalis prosper when there in a muslim country

The largest African community in Dubai is the Somalis, driven out of their home by years of unrest.

Somali businesses line the streets of the city center

The Somalis seem to have cornered this niche market for West African jewellery: half a dozen of them are doing brisk business here. "My customers come from Senegal, Mali, Ghana, The Gambia, and from the east of Africa as well," says shop owner Farhia Islow Adam

Dubai's proximity, economic climate and infrastructure has served Somali business well. The Somali Business Council in Dubai has a membership of about 200 companies. (Unofficial numbers could be much higher, though.)

Dubai 12 May. 06 ( Sh.M.Network) Many Somalis including educated people, businessmen and professionals have been pouring into UAE, particular in Dubai, Somali professors teach at the biggest universities in the Arab country.

Also in other settlements in UAE there were in creasing numbers of Somali families shifted from Europe, Australia and north America and see the UAE as an Islamic country and at the same time as a country that had a long relationship with Somalia and had more considerations to Somali society.

i wonder why?

I would agree with that. If she is ignorant and uneducated so will her children be.

thank god she's not!

Well I don't agree but even if it is true, what have you done for us lately?

again Islam was not made to help the west with it's shortcomings

i think one time was enough

and your still benefiting from it till this day

Indeed. And yet all the searching by Muslim websites has only found six. Interesting.

you asked for a couple i gave a halve dozen

but your comment is red herring

i gave you pre 1900 female muslim scholars and your still not satisfied with it

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah

i am very satisfied..... but some one in here..... i think.... just cant understand it

[HeiGou]

Well no. What you mean is that the West may view of the traditional family structure as holding women back, but Muslims do not see it that way.

reread what you just typed

a muslim is a person who follows islam therefore an muslim view is automaticly an islamic derrived view so my comment was on point!

You miss my point. No matter.

As opposed to Western Muslims who are far less likely to have a Mother who works but are also far more likely to be in jail or in trouble with the law? And aren't you Somali in origin? A community that in Britain has exceptional low rates of education, women's participation in the workforce but also high rates of criminal activity among the young.

translation i have nothing else to say so i resort to ad hominem comments

2 somalis shooting a police officer doesn't qualify as high rates of criminal activity among the general community

what i do see is somali males being harassed by the police after that incident

the somali communities are setting up shops and malls on their own and making ''do'' the hard way evendo they are struggling

they will over come it

You can call it what you like but it is true. At least about the Muslims. It is likely to be true about the Somalis too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5029390.stm

You might like to look at "Somalis suffer in Britain" by Ibrahim, Mohamed Mukhtar, Eastern Africa Magazine, July, 2004, Issue 16

but it's funny how somalis prosper when there in a muslim country

The largest African community in Dubai is the Somalis, driven out of their home by years of unrest.

Yes isn't it? Perhaps the competition from non-Muslims is less there.

The Somalis seem to have cornered this niche market for West African jewellery: half a dozen of them are doing brisk business here. "My customers come from Senegal, Mali, Ghana, The Gambia, and from the east of Africa as well," says shop owner Farhia Islow Adam

Can't imagine how the Arabs let the Somalis dominate the market for West African jewellery! Bet they do in London too.

again Islam was not made to help the west with it's shortcomings

Indeed. Nor does it.

i think one time was enough

and your still benefiting from it till this day

If it makes you feel better I am happy for you to think that. I don't think there is any evidence of it. Isn't it nice we have given you so much more in return?

you asked for a couple i gave a halve dozen

but your comment is red herring

No I asked for a couple like George Sand or Jane Austen. You have trawled a few names none of whom appear to have been particularly distinguished.

[HeiGou]

I would agree with that. If she is ignorant and uneducated so will her children be.

thank god she's not

Sorry. Deleted by mistake.

Actually all Muslim countries tend to have high female illiteracy rates. So one thing that can be said for sure is that despite the enormous respect Islam has for women, Muslims tend not to educate their daughters.

Compare this group of countries

http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2...c_213_1_1.html

21 Italy 98.1
22 Israel 93.1
23 Portugal 90.3
24 Greece 96.1
25 Cyprus 95.7
26 Hong Kong, China (SAR) 89.6
27 Barbados 99.7
28 Singapore 88.7
29 Slovenia 99.6
30 Korea, Rep. of 96.6

With these ones,

106 Iran, Islamic Rep. of 70.2
107 Algeria 58.3
110 Syrian Arab Republic 61.6
120 Egypt 44.8
126 Morocco 37.2
134 Comoros 48.8
138 Sudan 47.7
139 Bangladesh 30.8
144 Pakistan 28.8
148 Yemen 26.9
153 Djibouti 55.5
154 Mauritania 30.7
155 Eritrea 45.6
156 Senegal 28.7
165 Chad 35.8
172 Mali 16.6
173 Burkina Faso 14.9
174 Niger 8.9

In fact I would say that the first predictor of female illiteracy is region (Africa is less literate than Europe) but within regions, the next best predictor is the number of Muslims a country has. The more it has the lower the rate of female literacy.

[sameer]

^^ what do you percieve to be education? how do u rate if a person is educated or not?

[sameer]

^^ when the slaves were taken from africa...they were considered to be uneducated and uncivilised from an european point of view. How ever they were educated as they could have read arabic and educated in survival and the traditions and culture of their tribes and ancestors... .... so how do u measure education?

[HeiGou]

what do you percieve to be education? how do u rate if a person is educated or not?

They were literacy rates - the percentage of women who can read and write. I do not consider that to be educated, but it is a necessary first step.

[HeiGou]

^^ when the slaves were taken from africa...they were considered to be uneducated and uncivilised from an european point of view. How ever they were educated as they could have read arabic and educated in survival and the traditions and culture of their tribes and ancestors... .... so how do u measure education?

I would say that is 1. not true and 2. irrelevant. There are not two conflicting cultures here. These are figures for literacy in whatever language the local authorities determine is acceptable.

If only half of Algerian women can read it means that only half of Algerian women can read.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah
sorry???????????????? how did the algerian women get in to this?????????????

i am not algerian.......................

[HeiGou]

how did the algerian women get in to this?????????????

i am not algerian.......................

Algeria was on the list I gave. It struck me as odd that it should be so low or so high depending on how you look at it (Socialist countries tend to have quite high levels, traditional Muslim ones quite low. Algeria is sort of half and half)

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah
more than 2/3 of the algerian people are young people and its not the the young women who cant read or dont go to school.... its the men...... all the women have high education...... and its a rule for every body to go to school

[AHMED_GUREY]

You miss my point. No matter.

it's not me missing a ''point'' it's you failing to see you have no ''point'' at all

since there wasn't a point at all your statement of me missing a point is invalid

so please don't point your finger at me and claim i missed a ''point'' when i never did :thankyou:

You can call it what you like but it is true. At least about the Muslims. It is likely to be true about the Somalis too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5029390.stm

You might like to look at "Somalis suffer in Britain" by Ibrahim, Mohamed Mukhtar, Eastern Africa Magazine, July, 2004, Issue 16

http://www.wakiil.com/Business%20Community.htm

Yes isn't it? Perhaps the competition from non-Muslims is less there.

perhaps the business system there is better

perhaps somalis don't face harassment from the police there

perhaps perhaps

Can't imagine how the Arabs let the Somalis dominate the market for West African jewellery! Bet they do in London too.

it's not about letting or allowing it's about being an smart entrepreneur and achieving success

the fact that arabs and somalis have been trading partners for a millenia makes it even easier

Indeed. Nor does it.

If it makes you feel better I am happy for you to think that. I don't think there is any evidence of it.

http://muslimheritage.com/topics/def...&ArticleID=372

muslim mathmatician Al-Kindi who developed cryptography a system that paved the way for modern computers, Internet and the digital world :rollseyes

http://muslimheritage.com/topics/def...?ArticleID=224

or how muslims revolutionised chemistry :rollseyes

or the islamic foundation of spain

Isn't it nice we have given you so much more in return?

yeah i agree invading sovereign muslim nations and supporting terrorist states that oppress them is really something to be proud of :uhwhat

wow thank you

No I asked for a couple like George Sand or Jane Austen. You have trawled a few names none of whom appear to have been particularly distinguished.

hold up this wasn't a comparison

the women you mentioned don't even come close to the women i presented

as a muslim this is how see it

George Sand or Jane Austen are irrelevant to me

they might mean something to you and i respect that

but like i said as an muslim they are irrelevant to me

[sameer]

I would say that is 1. not true and 2. irrelevant. There are not two conflicting cultures here. These are figures for literacy in whatever language the local authorities determine is acceptable.

If only half of Algerian women can read it means that only half of Algerian women can read.

How can u say this is not true? because ure western written histroy books say so? well i live in the Caribbean which is populated by descendant of african slaves and east indian indentured labourers...and i am teling u that this is true.

Again my point is.....how can u say if a person cannot read that they are uneducated? I am sure there are women who know and can recite the entire Quran in its origianal language from these countries. these sisters are certainly blessed and more educated than me. Can you recite any entire book by heart?..can u with ure education goto their environment and survive?- i mean plant crops..survive in the desert, hunt or whatever...?

our beloved prophet Muhammad (saw) couldnt read nor write but yet he is reagarded as the most influencial man to ever walk the earth and is loved by millions. Here is an excerp of a paper done by a non muslim woman -

Mohammed The Prophet
By Prof. K. S. Ramakrishna Rao, Head of the Department of Philosophy,
Government College for Women University of Mysore, Mandya-571401 (Karnatika).

In the desert of Arabia was Mohammad born, according to Muslim historians, on April 20, 571. The name means highly praised. He is to me the greatest mind among all the sons of Arabia. He means so much more than all the poets and kings that preceded him in that impenetrable desert of red sand.

When he appeared Arabia was a desert -- a nothing. Out of nothing a new world was fashioned by the mighty spirit of Mohammad -- a new life, a new culture, a new civilization, a new kingdom which extended from Morocco to Indies and influenced the thought and life of three continents -- Asia, Africa and Europe.

When I thought of writing on Mohammad the prophet, I was a bit hesitant because it was to write about a religion I do not profess and it is a delicate matter to do so for there are many persons professing various religions and belonging to diverse school of thought and denominations even in same religion.

this from an unlettered man.....- uneducated by your definition.

Muhammad is even regarded by non-muslim scholars as the most sucessful and influential man in history . heres a link :http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html

look and see who is number 1.

I do however support that women in these coutries should be taught to read...but i wont dare say they are uneducated.

[HeiGou]

How can u say this is not true? because ure western written histroy books say so? well i live in the Caribbean which is populated by descendant of african slaves and east indian indentured labourers...and i am teling u that this is true.

I am not going to argue over it. I will just point out the near total lack of evidence for that claim.

Again my point is.....how can u say if a person cannot read that they are uneducated? I am sure there are women who know and can recite the entire Quran in its origianal language from these countries. these sisters are certainly blessed and more educated than me. Can you recite any entire book by heart?..can u with ure education goto their environment and survive?- i mean plant crops..survive in the desert, hunt or whatever...?

No they are well trained, they are not well educated. To be educated you must be able to understand. Reciting by heart does not prove that they are well educated.

our beloved prophet Muhammad (saw) couldnt read nor write but yet he is reagarded as the most influencial man to ever walk the earth and is loved by millions.

So I have heard. I am not sure what the relevance is.

this from an unlettered man.....- uneducated by your definition.

Well that is not fair. Muhammed got to speak to Archangels. It is unfair to compare comments I made about women in Algeria to Muhammed. Unless you think they too get to speak to Gabriel?

I do however support that women in these coutries should be taught to read...but i wont dare say they are uneducated.

Fair enough.

[sameer]

so......were u not trained to read?

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!
i need to ask you heigou! are you even a muslim???? i am sure that you got to go to a nice college!???? maybe all did in your family??? so you are lucky.... that you have had the choice.... not all have... but it doesent mean they are stupid

[sameer]

again u refuse to see the points from islamic point of view.

but if the west education system is sooo good...i suppose everyone in ure country and in the west can read?
Is it possible to be able to read but still be uneducated?

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!
sure its possible

[Keltoi]

Just a thought. I knew people in high school who could read just fine, but were unable to locate Egypt on a map. Knowing how to read is one thing, but actually reading once you learn is the most important I would think.

[sameer]

sister nennar, nothing we can say can change his thinking about muslims and islam. In my opionion his mind is closed even though he may pretend that it is open. He claims to have mentioned "important"women in the western life...but how much ppl have these women he quoted really affected? how did dey help to shape western civilisation or thinking? the sisters brother Ahmed quoted were genuine scholars of islam and really help to shape islamic civilasation. He dosent realise that to muslims ...Islam comes first and everything else revolves around that.

[sameer]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!
sure its possible

lol ...i dont think he realise this.

he claims that the muslim wmen were "trained" in quran...so that dosent count as education...... but he dosent realise that he was trained to read and trained todo math etc.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!

brother sameer you are totally right... his mind are clossed, and its said to say that most of the people in the west thinks and act like him!!!!!!!! but they are afraid of god!!!!!!

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!

they are the ones who are ignorant not us

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!

but it is very sad! dont you think?

[sameer]

yes.... they can know everythng about islam..or even be scholars of arabic....but remember only Allah can give guidence and open hearts and minds.
Insha Allah will have mercy upon him and give him guidence...
they can never understand Islam unless they live as a muslim. eg..ppl often wonder y it hurts me when a bomb falls in palestine when it is so far away and my family is not involved...they dont understand that every muslim is connected by la illaha ila Allah and is a brother to another muslim.

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!

no brother sameer they dont know how its like..... i guess you are right! their hearts a clossed... and its up to allah to open them

[sameer]

i have a football match tonight....so i'm off.....take care sister nennar
Assalamu Alikum :thankyou:

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!

have a nice game ! and inchaallah we will talk again....

bye bye brother sameer

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!

Women entrepreneurs in the Arab world do face male hostility—often from the West.

Economic roles and choices of women in the Arab world seemed very similar to those in the US and followed familiar global patterns.

just think about that!....

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!

* By Jeremy Henzell-Thomas**
Dec. 14, 2005




5. Striving

"Striving is the ordinance of God and whatever God has ordained can only be attained through striving". (The Prophet Muhammad)

"There has never yet been a man in history who led a life of ease whose name is worth remembering." (Theodore Roosevelt)

"Without labor, nothing prospers." (Sophocles)

"An ant on the move does more than a dozing ox." (Mexican proverb)

Since man is endowed with the special privileges corresponding to his status as khalifah (vicegerent, trustee), he is all the more accountable. However, given the limitations of man and the extent of God's Mercy, which "covers everything", it is the conscious intentions of men and women which will be judged, for "nought shall be accounted unto man but what he is striving for" (Najm 53.39).

An Islamic vision of education should therefore lay particular emphasis on sincere effort, on the inevitability and value of failure as a means of learning, and on the avoidance of excessively competitive, win-at-all-costs and achievement-driven criteria for success which may lead to inflation, egoism, self-aggrandizement and lack of compassion. This insatiable need to win, and the vices of character which can grow from it, is especially apparent in contemporary sports culture, in which sport has been de-sacralized. There is a pressing need to reclaim the sacred origin of sports.

Due regard for intention, effort and striving implies that the assessment system should not be excessively focused on quantitative measures of achievement, and the proliferation of statistics and "targets", which often merely reinforce failure, disillusionment and disaffection. The assessment system needs to be based on the premise that every student is worthy of respect and every pupil has something positive to offer and some achievement to celebrate. Such a system may include self-assessment, portfolios of work, and presentations.

The qualities of perseverance, patience and determination go hand in hand with the quality of striving. Persistent efforts are better than erratic ones, even if the latter are mighty ones. The Prophet said: "…the best deed is a continuous one, even if it be but a small one."

The greater striving (jihad) is, of course, the struggle to master one's own lower self. The Prophet said: "The most excellent Jihad is that for the conquest of the self". The best schools must themselves strive to inculcate in their students the qualities of character, including modesty, self-restraint and self-control (without repression!) which will serve as the foundation for this lifelong struggle.

maybe now its understandable

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!
subhanaallah ! i think it says all

4. Seeking Knowledge, Thinking, and Active Learning

[Lord, increase me in knowledge.] — Ta-Ha 20:114

“It is better to teach knowledge one hour in the night than to pray all night.” — Prophet Muhammad

“All men by nature desire knowledge.” — Aristotle

A blunt new report by Arab intellectuals commissioned by the United Nations warns that Arab societies are being crippled not only by lack of political freedom and the repression of women but also by intellectual stagnation and the stifling of creativity arising from isolation from the world of ideas. The survey, the Arab Human Development Report 2002, was released on July 2, 2002, in Cairo. A telling statistic, according to the report, is that “the whole Arab world translates about 300 books annually, one-fifth the number that Greece translates.” In the 1,000 years since the reign of the Caliph Mamoun, it concludes, the Arabs have translated as many books as Spain translates in one year.

A vision of a truly Islamic education sees the best schools as “thinking schools” and “active learning environments” which uphold the sacred trust to seek and acquire knowledge, and that through the quality of their education they dispense with the false idea that “faith” is somehow in opposition to “reason,” and that the knowledge attained through divine revelation is somehow in opposition to acquired human knowledge.

The Prophet said, “God has not created anything better than reason, or anything more perfect, or more beautiful than reason; the benefits which God gives are on its account; and understanding is by it, and God’s wrath is caused by disregard of it.”

It is also related that a group of people once commended a certain man in the presence of the Prophet, praising him excessively. Thereupon the Prophet said, “What kind of intellect does he have?” But they replied, saying, “We tell you about his diligence in prayer and about the various good works he does, and you ask about his intellect?” The Prophet answered and said, “The fool does more harm through his ignorance than do the wicked through their wickedness.”

Of course, we must not restrict the pedagogy of thinking and learning only to the skills of logic and reasoning. These skills are, of course, fundamental and especially important in educational environments which have overextended the pedagogy of imitation, repetition, and verbatim memorization, but we need to extend them beyond the conventional, “convergent” thinking skills which have been overemphasized in our Western machine-age education model. Einstein said that “we can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them” and, according to J. K. Galbraith, “The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.” Ultimately, we must extend thinking to encompass the more comprehensive view of the human intellect embodied in the Islamic concept of ‘aql, which has a moral and spiritual dimension as well as a narrowly cognitive one.

‘Aql is a faculty which is hard to translate into English. Its Arabic root has the sense of “binding” and “withholding,” that is, the faculty of judgment, discrimination and clarification and the intellectual power of speech (nutq) which enables man, the “language animal,” to articulate words in meaningful patterns. To Adam was imparted the names (Al-Baqarah 2:31), and in one sense this knowledge confers on man the faculty of logical definition and the making of distinctions which underlies abstract, conceptual thought. But ‘aql implies more than a strictly logical ability. It is a combination of reason and intellect, and in its highest sense, as Titus Burckhardt explains, it is “the universal principle of all intelligence, a principle which transcends the limiting conditions of the mind.” It is therefore closely related to the heart (qalb), the organ of spiritual cognition.



There is some convergence here with the notion of nous (intellect) in Orthodox Christianity (Hesychasm), which defines intellect as the highest faculty in man, through which, if purified, he knows God or the inner essence or principles (logoi) of created things by means of direct apprehension or spiritual perception. Again, this system equates the higher intellect with the heart, a faculty which dwells in the depth of the soul and constitutes the innermost aspect of the heart, the organ of contemplation, even described in very Islamic terms as the “eye of the heart” in the Makarian Homilies. As such, nous is distinguished from dianoia, the faculty of mere discursive reason; whereas both intellect and reason are combined in the organic unity of ‘aql.

Our conception of thinking and learning must embrace not only conventional logical and analytical skills but also skills such as those utilized by

Active and skilled readers who employ a range of reading strategies according to purpose and genre, including close reading, scanning, and skimming, and who make inferences and predictions based on context and background knowledge so as to go beyond the information given;

Clear thinkers, able to select what is relevant and accessible and avoid unnecessary complexity and repetition in transmitting ideas to others;

Independent, critical thinkers and decision-makers;

Curious, questing, adventurous thinkers Whoever goes out in search of knowledge is on the path of God until they return);

Questioning thinkers, always seeking new evidence and able to resist premature closure and fixed conclusions. “As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality” (Albert Einstein). The Prophet said, “Asking good questions is half of learning.”

Discriminating and discerning thinkers, able to use valid criteria (including the criterion, or furqan, of the Qur’an itself) to sift the false from the true, identify weak assumptions and presuppositions, expose false premises, distinguish fact from unsubstantiated opinion, and make sound judgments. A well-attested characteristic of bright and gifted students is that they ask awkward questions, undermining shallow presuppositions and even questioning the hidden premises behind other people’s questions. Good teachers are never threatened by such students.

Focused thinkers, able to formulate clear and specific definitions and categories and resist “woolly” thinking;

Reflective thinkers, able to ponder deeply and resist hasty and impulsive conclusions;

Unitive and synthetic thinkers, able to employ dialectical thinking to resist one-sided, polarized, paradigmatic thinking and reconcile and unify dichotomies and oppositions; able to affirm and incorporate logical polarities rather than seek to avoid contradiction and paradox through one-sided adherence to a single perspective. In the field of developmental psychology, Klaus Riegel identifies the ability to accept contradictions, constructive confrontations and asynchronies as the highest stage of cognitive development, and James Fowler associates dialectical thinking with the development of faith. It goes without saying that the dialectical process is not one either of compromise or loose relativism, but one of creative tension which ultimately transforms contradictions into complementarities, releasing the open-minded thinker from ingrained habits and conditioned patterns of thought, established affiliations, fear of change and instability, and reluctance to approach anything which may be threatening to one’s sense of “self.”

Thinkers who employ strategies for memory and verbatim memorization including the identification of organizational and cohesive features (propositional structure; rhyme, rhythm, other poetic devices), finding connections with existing knowledge, paraphrasing and summarizing, visualization, mnemonics, etc.;

Flexible thinkers able to use a range of thinking skills and strategies appropriate to various tasks, and able to transfer knowledge in innovative and creative ways;

Multi-sensory learners, able to use all their senses to acquire knowledge;

Nuanced and multi-layered thinkers, able to encompass subtle distinctions of meaning, appreciate different levels of description, and evaluate which level is appropriate in a particular context;

Creative thinkers and problem solvers, able to explore and initiate alternative, divergent and lateral approaches to the solution of problems;

Non-literal thinkers, comfortable with symbol, metaphor, allegory and analogy;

Fair-minded and open-minded thinkers, able to resist prejudice and bias, and able to counterbalance culturally motivated distortions of fact;

Cutting-edge thinkers, able to pioneer new departures and developments;

Visionary thinkers, those who see to far horizons, reach to the heart of the matter and penetrate to the key issues and underlying trends;

Meta-cognitive thinkers, able to analyze their own thought processes;

Self-motivated learners, who are not over-reliant on extrinsic motivation (motivated by external factors, such as financial reward or accountability to managers) but can call on intrinsic motivation (e.g. love of learning for its own sake);

Lifelong learners, who persevere in their studies and have developed effective study habits, including organization of time and resources, research skills, active reading, note-taking and note-making, listening, self-evaluation;

Learners who are able to transmit, use, and apply knowledge for the benefit of others: There are many sayings of the Prophet on the “negligent scholar”: “A pious, unlettered man is like one who travels on foot, whilst a negligent scholar is like a sleeping rider.” The Prophet also refers to the “scholar without practice” as a “tree without fruit” and a “bee without honey.”

Learners who embody, realize, and actualize knowledge—deep learning (that is, true education) goes beyond theoretical knowledge or knowledge which is merely “academic” in its pejorative sense; it must involve confirmation and realization (tahqiq, derived from haqq, truth, reality) of knowledge in one’s own self, which also inspires action (`amal). In Islam, knowledge and action are inextricably intertwined, and there is no worthwhile knowledge which is not accompanied by action, nor worthwhile action which is not guided by knowledge.

Above all we should aim to cultivate thinkers who use ‘aql in its sense of “mind-heart,” and tafakkur, in its sense of a cognitive-spiritual activity in which the rational mind, emotion, and spirit are combined. These faculties, in their higher sense, are, of course, more than thinking in the sense that the Western mind often understands thinking as an exclusively mental activity distinct from the workings of the heart. Essentially, this is the contemplative state of Islamic worship, in which the truth of revelation is verified through the organ of spiritual cognition (ma`rifah). [Soon we will show them Our signs in the utmost horizons of the universe and within their own souls until it becomes manifest to them that this revelation is indeed the truth] (Ha Mim 41:53). The Prophet said, “An hour’s contemplation is better than a year’s (mechanical) worship.”

The awakening and development of these higher contemplative faculties must be considered within the context of a natural developmental process which governs the gradual maturation and unfolding of human capacities. This process starts with concrete sensory experience and observation, progresses to the use of the mind as a tool for abstract thought, logical reasoning, and analysis, and culminates in the awakening of the heart and the attainment of spiritual insight.

At present, the pinnacle of cognitive development in Western secular education is the attainment of formal reasoning (Piaget’s “formal operations”), hypothetico-deductive thinking and theory construction. It is significant, however, that Albert Einstein, one of the greatest constructers of scientific theory, warned against the overvaluation of the rational mind: “The intuitive mind is a sacred gift; the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.”

The development of the rational mind has had obvious consequences in terms of scientific and technological progress, but it has also inhibited man from progressing further to the attainment of spiritual insight, and even undermined those capacities which he naturally possessed at earlier stages of development, such as the capacity for awe and wonder in the face of mysteries which are inaccessible to the mind.

The senior curriculum therefore needs to make students critically aware of the limitations of formal reasoning, and the blindness of dogmatic scientism and reductionism which teach that observable reality is the only reality and that there is only one level of description applicable to all phenomena. Students should also be informed of the spiritual beliefs of famous Western scientists, such as Newton, Faraday, and Einstein.

The Qur’an is a [book for those who believe in the existence of that which is beyond the reach of human perception] (Al-Baqarah 2:3). Muhammad Asad comments on this verse:

Al-ghayb, commonly, and erroneously, translated as “the Unseen” is used in the Qur’an to denote all those sectors or phases of reality which lie beyond the reach of human perception and cannot, therefore, be proved or disproved by scientific observation or even adequately comprised within the accepted categories of speculative thought: as, for instance, the existence of God and of a definite purpose underlying the universe, life after death, the real nature of time, the existence of spiritual forces and their inter-action, and so forth. Only a person who is convinced that the ultimate reality comprises far more than our observable environment can attain to belief in God and, thus, to a belief that life has meaning and purpose.

True as this is, it is important to add that we need not become disillusioned with science because of the myopic vision of scientism. As Al-Ghazali warns, laborious study of the sciences dealing with fact and demonstration is indispensable if the soul is to avoid imaginative delusions masquerading as spiritual enlightenment. It is also the case that some of the best cutting-edge modern science is also providing us with persuasive and compelling evidence, from a strictly scientific perspective, of the existence of a divine principle of meaning, purpose, and order at work behind all aspects of existence, which is testimony to the Qur’anic statement that [Everything have We created in due measure and proportion] (Al-Qamar 54:49). This kind of empirical verification, with its power to demonstrate the unity of science and religion, is far more convincing and impressive to modern students than contrived attempts to find a convergence between Qur’anic ayat and the specific findings, for example, of physical or chemical research. The Qur’an should not be limited to the status of a scientific text book.

Just as we need to bring to light the difference between scientism and true science, we need to ensure that the process of education teaches students not to equate other limiting ideologies with potentially constructive tools and concepts. For example, fine thinking demands that we distinguish between nihilistic relativism and the valid attempt to find relationship or use context to inform meaning. In the same way, we need to distinguish between absolutism as an unbending frame of mind and the absolute and the immutable truths given to us through divine revelation.

Such distinctions can be carried further to encompass the difference between individualism and individuality, between communalism and community, between modernism and modernity, between fundamentalism and a commitment to fundamentals, between libertinism and liberty, and between syncretism and synthesis. Most importantly, there is a pressing need for education in the difference between secularism as a godless ideology and the intelligent appreciation that we live in the “present time” (Latin saeculum) and therefore need to attune ourselves to its particular needs, conditions, and ways of thinking if we are ever going to be able communicate effectively with the contemporary psyche.

The Islamic perspective, always seeking unity, proportion, harmony, and balance, is able to encompass many levels of description and apply each one in its appropriate domain. It does not conceive, for example, of analysis and synthesis as conflicting styles, the former to be superseded by the latter in the revolutionary school of tomorrow, but as complementary capacities, each with its appropriate domain. If the left side of the brain is overused, as it may well be in much Western education, the corrective is not to go overboard for “right-brained” thinking and consign “left-brained” thinking to the garbage bin but to seek a balance between the two sides. It is not a question of one mode of thinking being “better” than another, or one mode of thinking becoming obsolete, but of having the intelligence to realize that all modes have their place.

[nennar]

a salaam alaikum :sister: and:brother:

i want to tell you something!!:)

to days ago i meat this young woman! i have seen her in the street, a few times before and i have allways said asalaam alaikum to her!!!!!, but 2 days ago i stopped talking with her..... subhanallah... before , when i sais salaam to her i didnt come near her, but that day i did! she was wearing hijab... so i thought she was a sister.... but she was not!!!!!!!!!!! ánd then again she was!!!!!! she is christian.... but have read the bible and the quran... and she has put the hijab on because , she believe that this is what women should do to please Allah.... subhanallah...... she has a cross sitting on her shirt... but i didnt see that before i stopped to talk to her.. she doesent eat pork, and she wear her clothes like a muslim sister.... it really made me wunder...... subhanallah....

we talk for a while! and i asked if she would get grim remarks from the danish publik??? only the etnical danish people, would sometimes say stuff.... but the worse was getting a job wearing hijab..... BUT I AM NOT TAKING MY HIJAB OFF she said! and we could agree on that its not the hijab people are afraid off... but the presens off allah.....

that does make you wunder.....:?


salaam to you all and may allahs blessing be with you:thankyou:

[SophiaCroft]

These people are only finding excuses to put Muslims in pain. Like someone mentioned earlier that when their women are badly dressed and that doesn't matter them then why should Hijab bothers them.

[nennar]

a salaam alaikum!

ohhh hijab ! is a big problem for none muslim..... why i really dont know other than it make them fell uncomfortable about them selves.... i see it like this ! thse people go around in their lives .... and never think about allah other than if someone they know die.... and her we come wearing hijab.... and are deecent dressed and behaving in a good manner... you must understand that i touches something in them... it provokes them... it shoullden but it does

[Tania]

This can happen when the professional knowledge is not taken in account.

[nennar]

a salaam alaikum!

you must understand that in my country , when you are born, you get baptised and then again when you are 13/14 you must in front off the priest again say that you believe in jesus and god! but must young people only does that because they have a big party afterwards with lots of gifts.... i can tell you so much!!!! that didnt they get the party they would not say or do anything and they wouldnt go to church

[nennar]

salaam alaikum!

just look here what my best friend in islam wrote! and this is how must off our lifes are like if we put hijab on!

QUOTE=julie sarri;205573]:sl: i read on the web yesterday that 2 non muslim danish women dressed up as muslim women in the full islamic dress went out in the street to see the reaction from the danish people and were horrified at the resonance they got being call disgusting names by the genial pubic most of it coming from the old the 2 women said that the danish pubic had know understanding or respect for muslim people or islam there were some young children on a bus they got on and they kept looking at us and seemed scared of us the 2 women said we couldent wait to get home and we still cant belive the way we were treated :w: :sister:[/QUOTE]

[Sis786]

No but I have ordered it now so I'll get back to you. The description sounded bad enough. Poor woman. Durrani means she a Pashtun no?

Pushtun no i dont think but it is a really good read what better way to find out about the dark side of politics then hearing it from the ex wife she is truly an amazing women!

[Sis786]

salaam alaikum!

just look here what my best friend in islam wrote! and this is how must off our lifes are like if we put hijab on!

QUOTE=julie sarri;205573]:sl: i read on the web yesterday that 2 non muslim danish women dressed up as muslim women in the full islamic dress went out in the street to see the reaction from the danish people and were horrified at the resonance they got being call disgusting names by the genial pubic most of it coming from the old the 2 women said that the danish pubic had know understanding or respect for muslim people or islam there were some young children on a bus they got on and they kept looking at us and seemed scared of us the 2 women said we couldent wait to get home and we still cant belive the way we were treated :w: :sister:

The truth of the matter is sis that it would take years and years for people to accept Muslims openly and thats beacuse our name has been blackened by recent events.

Sometimes i think its harsh when a hijab women goes on a bus and eveyone is afraid of her BUT then its fear that the media has created in the minds of people and we cannot blame the people for this.

I know a member of the IRA and he was saying that it took years for Irish people here to be trusted and he knows what the Muslims are going through.

We as muslims do also judge people i mean Jews a majority of us hate jews and esp those from Israel, yet there maybe a jew that condemns the acts of thier goverments.

Sis my conclusion is that a women should be allowed to wear what she wants where she wants, and to get people to know and undertsand muslims the goverments should encourage people to follow faith and the banning of the hijab is just isolating an already isolated group MUSLIMS.

Wear your hijab for the sake of Allah SWT the rest is Dunya and we should only work towrds pleasing Allah SWT and the Akirah!

[F.Y.]

Hmmm. I teach in schools as part of a university requirement for my course and the kind people here have no problems. Sure, they may appear apprehensive at first, but that's to be expected. When I introduce myself to the class I always address the issue of my dress because it is quite alien to them - I just make it an open forum. Ask away! And kids are really intelligent. They understand my reasons for wearing it. Once that's done and dusted, on we go with learning! Other staff members - I just break the ice by smiling and talking to them - like any other human being. It's all good, alhamdulliah, no major issues so far.
Peace