afghan school burnings, an alt' viewpoint

[Dawud_uk]

Assalaamu Alaykum Brothers and Sisters,

to the non-Muslims, peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

first of all i remember when these school burnings first started a few months ago and at the time the taliban condemning destroying schools for the sake of it though that does not mean they are not doing so now or would not do so under isolated circumstances.

2ndly there are many different groups in afghanistan, some islamic, some kinda-islamic, some nationalistic, some tribal and all fighting the occupiers and their apostate allies.

some of them support burning down schools to attack a visable symbol of their oppression and others support destroying certain schools if they are teaching things they see as unislamic, like darwinism or teaching secular democracy,

or because they are doing something islam disagrees with like teaching young men and young women together.

now destroying schools just for these reasons might seem barbaric and wrong in either case to some but examine the historical situation here. Afghanistan has a history of their oppressors, first the socialists and then the communists of the USSR setting up schools which aimed to indoctrinate their children against islam as a whole way of life,

later such children were intented by the communists and socialists to go university to be taught atheist docterine that religion was wrong full stop and taught marx not Muhammad (saws), Das Capital not the Quran and then take this back to their towns and villages and destroy islam this way.

Now the taliban set up many islamic schools, schools where islam is the first thing on the curriculum which is of-course correct in a muslim country that is trying to establish shariah.

some of these schools were good, some ok and some a little basic but they were in the middle of a terrible drought and some of the worse sanctions ever imposed on a country by the outside world.

when the US / UK and their apostate Allies came to power, many of these schools were closed for alledgedly formenting terrorism, many of the so-called taliban compounds bombed are actually islamic schools and the young bearded men who's corpses are paraded as taliban are quite often just religious students.

indeed taliban just means students in pushtu, talib meaning student, taliban meaning students so they are actually a movement of students and teachers so are hardly against education full-stop, just against the wrong sort of education.

there have also been a few reports from afghanistan of female teachers and female students at religious schools being taken away by american soldiers and never seen again, Allahu Alim what happened to them but you can imagine how the people in those areas feel is likely to have happened to these poor sisters?

now under such circumstances, it seems quite easy to see how people there given historical and present day problems with the forces of disbelief trying to force a disbelieving mindset up the muslims of afghanistan through mis-educating their children that they would try to fight this by attacking such schools and killing teachers who for a poor wage then go and sell their deen and teach disbelief to children.

for example, they might see a 2ndary school where young men and women are taught together and they know what will come from this, they hear they are taught secular ways of thinking and to reject islamic law and to want secular law and so they fight against it which is quite right and proper in an islamic country like afghanistan.

i think if anything the mujahadeen have been merciful to the disbelievers and their apostate allies. as far as i am aware no teacher has been attacked without being repeatedly warned, no mixed school, or school teaching secularism touched without first being told to close first.

this is a war not just of bodies but of minds and souls also, if the muslims won every battle but their children were at the same time raised to believe in the superiority of the western system over islam then in truth they have lost the war and they have lost their deen, islam.

the muslims of afghanistan understand this, thoughtful muslims around the world should understand this also and stop blindly accepting what the disbelievers want us to take as truth when it is only one side of the story.

non-muslims here should realise our deen (way of life) is islam, our loyalty is to Allah, our book is the Quran and our guide is Muhammad (saws).

you will not make us deviate from this, in fact we have every intention of turning as many of the people to this path as we can through kind words and beautiful preaching and presenting the truth of islam without compromise or distorting to please the disbelievers.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

[wilberhum]

There are a lot of honest facts in what you say. By the same token the abuses of the Taliban is a long list. As any group they were not all bad or all good. But as a whole I think, and it is well documented, that it was much more of the former than the latter.

[Dawud_uk]

There are a lot of honest facts in what you say. By the same token the abuses of the Taliban is a long list. As any group they were not all bad or all good. But as a whole I think, and it is well documented, that it was much more of the former than the latter.

wilberhum,

that is probably because of three reasons,

firstly we look at different sources and give them different weight. for example i take a practicing muslims view over a non-muslim view any day.

you on the other hand do not, you'll seem to take whatever is said and give it equal weight but you need to take into consideration that every one of those sources has an agenda, something they are also trying to say and a method of saying it.

2ndly we quite often disagree on what is good and bad.

to you an islamic state where shariah is practiced and indeed enforced on the population is not necessarily a good thing to me it is the only real valid way of ruling a people according to God's laws.

this brings us to the 3rd reason,

if you accepted that there was a God, that he had revealed the Quran to muhammad (saws) and that the Quran and the example of the prophet Muhammad (saws) where the best guidence and practice on earth then you would do as we do, and think like we do.

which do you find the most important difference?

i think three because if that difference was eliminated then it would force you to re-evaluate every part of your life, any moral choice, every moral fibre of your being and it would change you subtly forever.

I hope and pray that God guides you to the truth wilberhum, that he makes you a good muslim upon the straight path, ameen.

Daw'ud

[catmando]

Assalaamu Alaykum Brothers and Sisters,

to the non-Muslims, peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

first of all i remember when these school burnings first started a few months ago and at the time the taliban condemning destroying schools for the sake of it though that does not mean they are not doing so now or would not do so under isolated circumstances.

2ndly there are many different groups in afghanistan, some islamic, some kinda-islamic, some nationalistic, some tribal and all fighting the occupiers and their apostate allies.

some of them support burning down schools to attack a visable symbol of their oppression and others support destroying certain schools if they are teaching things they see as unislamic, like darwinism or teaching secular democracy,

or because they are doing something islam disagrees with like teaching young men and young women together.

now destroying schools just for these reasons might seem barbaric and wrong in either case to some but examine the historical situation here. Afghanistan has a history of their oppressors, first the socialists and then the communists of the USSR setting up schools which aimed to indoctrinate their children against islam as a whole way of life,

later such children were intented by the communists and socialists to go university to be taught atheist docterine that religion was wrong full stop and taught marx not Muhammad (saws), Das Capital not the Quran and then take this back to their towns and villages and destroy islam this way.

Now the taliban set up many islamic schools, schools where islam is the first thing on the curriculum which is of-course correct in a muslim country that is trying to establish shariah.

some of these schools were good, some ok and some a little basic but they were in the middle of a terrible drought and some of the worse sanctions ever imposed on a country by the outside world.

when the US / UK and their apostate Allies came to power, many of these schools were closed for alledgedly formenting terrorism, many of the so-called taliban compounds bombed are actually islamic schools and the young bearded men who's corpses are paraded as taliban are quite often just religious students.

indeed taliban just means students in pushtu, talib meaning student, taliban meaning students so they are actually a movement of students and teachers so are hardly against education full-stop, just against the wrong sort of education.

there have also been a few reports from afghanistan of female teachers and female students at religious schools being taken away by american soldiers and never seen again, Allahu Alim what happened to them but you can imagine how the people in those areas feel is likely to have happened to these poor sisters?

now under such circumstances, it seems quite easy to see how people there given historical and present day problems with the forces of disbelief trying to force a disbelieving mindset up the muslims of afghanistan through mis-educating their children that they would try to fight this by attacking such schools and killing teachers who for a poor wage then go and sell their deen and teach disbelief to children.

for example, they might see a 2ndary school where young men and women are taught together and they know what will come from this, they hear they are taught secular ways of thinking and to reject islamic law and to want secular law and so they fight against it which is quite right and proper in an islamic country like afghanistan.

i think if anything the mujahadeen have been merciful to the disbelievers and their apostate allies. as far as i am aware no teacher has been attacked without being repeatedly warned, no mixed school, or school teaching secularism touched without first being told to close first.

this is a war not just of bodies but of minds and souls also, if the muslims won every battle but their children were at the same time raised to believe in the superiority of the western system over islam then in truth they have lost the war and they have lost their deen, islam.

the muslims of afghanistan understand this, thoughtful muslims around the world should understand this also and stop blindly accepting what the disbelievers want us to take as truth when it is only one side of the story.

non-muslims here should realise our deen (way of life) is islam, our loyalty is to Allah, our book is the Quran and our guide is Muhammad (saws).

you will not make us deviate from this, in fact we have every intention of turning as many of the people to this path as we can through kind words and beautiful preaching and presenting the truth of islam without compromise or distorting to please the disbelievers.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

Well buddy, you talk a good game. Now why are you living in England instead of the beautiful Muslim country of Afghanistan? Surely you want to raise your family in such a place...the Taliban being such righteous Muslims and all.

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[Dawud_uk]

Well buddy, you talk a good game. Now why are you living in England instead of the beautiful Muslim country of Afghanistan? Surely you want to raise your family in such a place...the Taliban being such righteous Muslims and all.

hi catmando,

well because firstly the US and UK bombed afghanistan back into the stone age and unless you havent noticed the taliban are not in charge in afghanistan anymore (though their allies are in effective control of nw frontier province in pakistan)

2ndly anyone trying to move there or to nwfp is assumed to be jihadi and i would be arrested quicker than you could say 'give me a first class ticket to cuba please' and i doubt i'd even get a window seat on the plane!

however, not being able to travel there doesnt mean i cant help in other ways like speaking the truth here for example.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Daw'ud

[wilberhum]

Dawud_uk

firstly we look at different sources and give them different weight. for example i take a practicing muslims view over a non-muslim view any day.

That kind of implies that non-Muslims can not hold an honest opinion. I guess that is a difference between us. If I see basically the same information in dozens of different independent sources, I think it is probably credible. I don’t go back and check on there religion because I assume that if there religious beliefs are different that mine, that they are less valuable.

you on the other hand do not, you'll seem to take whatever is said and give it equal weight but you need to take into consideration that every one of those sources has an agenda, something they are also trying to say and a method of saying it.

That of course is true. I also realize that your sources have an agenda.
You just need to figure out if honesty is part of that agenda.

2ndly we quite often disagree on what is good and bad.

Vary true, and surly a disagreement that will never be resolved.

to you an islamic state where shariah is practiced and indeed enforced on the population is not necessarily a good thing to me it is the only real valid way of ruling a people according to God's laws.

Saying “not necessarily a good thing” is the understatement of the year. And “According to god’s laws” is only a religious point of view. And not one shared by a minimum of 80% of the world.

if you accepted that there was a God, that he had revealed the Quran to muhammad (saws) and that the Quran and the example of the prophet Muhammad (saws) where the best guidence and practice on earth then you would do as we do, and think like we do.

I accept, as a belief, that god exists. That is the end of what I accept.

which do you find the most important difference?
i think three because if that difference was eliminated then it would force you to re-evaluate every part of your life, any moral choice, every moral fibre of your being and it would change you subtly forever.

I think 2 is the most important. If I find a act totally evil and you think it will please god, we can never agree on anything about the act.
Next is 1. If you think someone need to have the same religious beliefes as you to be a credible you kind of eliminate accepting any counter point of view.

I

hope and pray that God guides you to the truth wilberhum, that he makes you a good muslim upon the straight path, ameen.

Thanks, but I think you are praying for the impossible.

[nimrod]

Dawud, if I read what you have posted correctly, “Firstly we look at different sources and give them different weight, for example I take a practicing Muslims view over a non-Muslim view any day”.

Then you will be a very good fit here.

Thanks
Nimrod

[Zionazi_Dissent]

Thanks, but I think you are praying for the impossible.

That good to hear. I'd choose reasoning over blind faith anytime.

[Dawud_uk]

That kind of implies that non-Muslims can not hold an honest opinion. I guess that is a difference between us. If I see basically the same information in dozens of different independent sources, I think it is probably credible. I don’t go back and check on there religion because I assume that if there religious beliefs are different that mine, that they are less valuable.

That of course is true. I also realize that your sources have an agenda.
You just need to figure out if honesty is part of that agenda.

peace wilberhum,

perhaps it was my own bad way of putting things across, let me say i give more weight to a practicing muslim because lying is not part of our faith, though there are sinners in this as in everything else.

but being previously a non-musilm i know how much even little lies make up western society, how many lies i used to tell myself and how difficult it was to break that habit and how much the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) condemned this evil habit but most people in the west dont see it as a bad thing at all most of the time.

i do not discount every non-muslim source however, i just try to check up on where each of those people is coming from, what is their agenda and aim in putting this info out because usually there will be one and then give weight to the evidence according to all of that.

Vary true, and surly a disagreement that will never be resolved.

Saying “not necessarily a good thing” is the understatement of the year. And “According to god’s laws” is only a religious point of view. And not one shared by a minimum of 80% of the world.

this really i think is because our chains of logic and reasoning plug into different sources, to me the Quran and Sunnah (sayings and actions of Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) are authentic and reliable and as valid today as they were 1400 years ago, you on the other hand are relying on other sources which in my own opinion at least come from man, not from God.

do you therefore see why i say three is the most important difference?

if you accepted that islam was the truth, that God had sent messengers to mankind down through the ages, that Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) was the last and final messenger then you would think more like us and act like us, though as you will have noticed there are a lot of different interpretations of those sources in islam.

all other differences would pale into insignificance after that one was overcome.

I accept, as a belief, that god exists. That is the end of what I accept.

...Thanks, but I think you are praying for the impossible.

i dont think so wilberhum, i used to be far far worse than you back in my early non-muslim days but perhaps it is partially our fault for not presenting you with the message in the right way.

belief in God is however the first step but could i make a genuine direct challenge to you?

i would like you to read the Quran, check our sources as we check your's. check it for logical consistency in its message, read it through and answer yourself this question, 'is this a book from God?'

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Daw'ud

[wilberhum]

Daw'ud
perhaps it was my own bad way of putting things across, let me say i give more weight to a practicing muslim because lying is not part of our faith, though there are sinners in this as in everything else.

So then you believe that lying is part of other faiths.
How do you define a “Practicing Muslim”?
I think you can find millions that conceder OBL a “Practicing Muslim”.

but being previously a non-musilm i know how much even little lies make up western society, how many lies i used to tell myself and how difficult it was to break that habit

So I must conclude that Muslim societies are free from lying.

i do not discount every non-muslim source however,

So every non-Muslim is not a lyer. Well I guess that’s a start. But you still seam to assume that most non-Muslims are lyres.
i

just try to check up on where each of those people is coming from, what is their agenda and aim in putting this info out because usually there will be one and then give weight to the evidence according to all of that.

Well now you are on the right track. Now if you stop your pre determined assumption that a non-Muslim source is lying, you will make more progress.
By the way, do you conceder the UN a lying pack of scum sucking anti-Islamic lyres?

this really i think is because our chains of logic and reasoning plug into different sources, to me the Quran and Sunnah (sayings and actions of Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) are authentic and reliable and as valid today as they were 1400 years ago, you on the other hand are relying on other sources which in my own opinion at least come from man, not from God.

I really think this is because you assume all Muslims are good. Where as I assume that all Muslims are people. And in every group of people where will be all kinds. It will be a spectrum from the very worst to the very best. Also, this has nothing to do with what Islam says, it is about what some Muslims do.

do you therefore see why i say three is the most important difference?

Yes, and I think there is a word that covers it. Bias!

if you accepted that islam was the truth, that God had sent messengers to mankind down through the ages, that Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) was the last and final messenger then you would think more like us and act like us, though as you will have noticed there are a lot of different interpretations of those sources in islam.

But I don’t. If I did, I would be a Muslim.

i used to be far far worse than you

I’m sure that kinds of sums up what you think of me.

i would like you to read the Quran, check our sources as we check your's. check it for logical consistency in its message, read it through and answer yourself this question, 'is this a book from God?'

I have already answered that question.

[mahdisoldier19]

Have any of you who criticize the taliban ever been to Afghanistan and actually have lived there.?

[Ghazi]

Have any of you who criticize the taliban ever been to Afghanistan and actually have lived there.?

:sl:

Good question, they have never met them and yet they backbite constantly I personally ask the haters to fly out and actually live there for one month then come back.

[mahdisoldier19]

And please i do not want to hear from other people that OH i have friends who lived in Afghanistan, No have Any of you who criticize the taliban have ever lived there?

[MRR]

Have you ever lived in Iraq?

[mahdisoldier19]

Where does Iraq come from this situation of Afghanistan?

Do you like shish kabaab or chicken kabaab? Teekay?

[MRR]

Where does Iraq come from this situation of Afghanistan?

Do you like shish kabaab or chicken kabaab? Teekay?

The point is, if you have never lived in Iraq, I don't want to hear any of your opinion about it. Just keep your thoughts to yourself. Because if you have never lived in Iraq, you have no right to speak of it. Just keep it to yourself.

[mahdisoldier19]

Ok , i am curious where does Iraq come from When We are talking about Afghanistan?

[wilberhum]

Have any of you who criticize the taliban ever been to Afghanistan and actually have lived there.?

So only first hand knowledge is valid? Then I can't make a judgement on what happened to the Native Americans?
So should I conclude that the UN is a bunch of scum out to make Muslims look bad?

[mahdisoldier19]

And what nation has the UN havent made look bad that opposed democracy and supported the Creation of the Islamic Ummah?

[wilberhum]

And what nation has the UN havent made look bad that opposed democracy and supported the Creation of the Islamic Ummah?

So the UN is a bunch of scum sucking anti-Islamic bigots?

[Keltoi]

Speaking for me personally. When I saw the Taliban bring female prisoners into a soccer stadium and blow their heads off with Ak-47's, I tend to think that might not be a good idea. Maybe that is just the "kafir" in me....

[Isaac]

no, but they seem somewhat futile and usless when it comes to preventing western atroctires and massacres. what did they do to stop the illegal ivasion of iraq? so they are useless, they are made up of the 8 world leadin nations which include you guessed the good old united states of america.

[Isaac]

no keilto, its not the kafir in you. Any body with a heart would feel the same. maybe it was just the tigher in you.:X

[Keltoi]

no keilto, its not the kafir in you. Any body with a heart would feel the same. maybe it was just the tigher in you.:X

"Tigher"...what exactly are you saying?

[Isaac]

i mean tiger. i was just trying to lighten up the conversation on this thread as it was starting to go down the usual route of not raising issues but looking to blame. Obviously its not working.

[wilberhum]

no, but they seem somewhat futile and usless when it comes to preventing western atroctires and massacres. what did they do to stop the illegal ivasion of iraq? so they are useless, they are made up of the 8 world leadin nations which include you guessed the good old united states of america.

Same old sad rebuttal. If you say I’m evil, I will justify my evil by saying you are more evil. The “Your mother is fatter than my mother’ strategy.

The irony of the logic is that your mother is still fat.

[mahdisoldier19]

Speaking for me personally. When I saw the Taliban bring female prisoners into a soccer stadium and blow their heads off with Ak-47's, I tend to think that might not be a good idea. Maybe that is just the "kafir" in me....

And since your a genius, Do you even know what that lady did?

And do you know in the USA there are still Electric chairs and hangings going on?


Obviously you wont know what that woman did so let me fix you on this issue

She killed her husband and slept with her son who was young, On this, The tribe told the taliban if they dont create a public execution they would cause anarchy . So She commited Murder and Adultry? So everyone could see the punishment that if a woman kills her husband and sleeps with her son they get a bullet in the back of the head. UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU, In Afghanistan Dont speak about this issue. Because its simple for you to talk like Yea yea they shot in the back of the head.

A typical ignorant kafir does that, Atleast People Like Panatella would like to know the truth as to what is going on there in Afghanistan. And that who were the taliban and why did they do what they did?

Did the taliban force they way into power? No, taliban was made up of the people of Afghanistan. And people like you still dont give them credit.

[Keltoi]

And since your a genius, Do you even know what that lady did?

And do you know in the USA there are still Electric chairs and hangings going on?


Obviously you wont know what that woman did so let me fix you on this issue

She killed her husband and slept with her son who was young, On this, The tribe told the taliban if they dont create a public execution they would cause anarchy . So She commited Murder and Adultry? So everyone could see the punishment that if a woman kills her husband and sleeps with her son they get a bullet in the back of the head. UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU, In Afghanistan Dont speak about this issue. Because its simple for you to talk like Yea yea they shot in the back of the head.

A typical ignorant kafir does that, Atleast People Like Panatella would like to know the truth as to what is going on there in Afghanistan. And that who were the taliban and why did they do what they did?

Did the taliban force they way into power? No, taliban was made up of the people of Afghanistan. And people like you still dont give them credit.

I might be willing to accept this if that one act of public execution was a lone event, which of course it wasn't. Thanks for falling back on the "kafir" comment, that made it all worthwhile though.

[mahdisoldier19]

AstafurAllah swt,


May Allah swt Guide you to Seeratal Mustaqueem

[wilberhum]

I might be willing to accept this if that one act of public execution was a lone event, which of course it wasn't. Thanks for falling back on the "kafir" comment, that made it all worthwhile though.

Right, she was an example of what was done. It was not an isolated insolent.
I find it sad to say that capital punishment still exist in the US. But it is not a public event. There are two reasons for public executions. Entertainment and to terrorize the people.
I don’t think the Taliban were into entertainment.

The tribe told the taliban if they dont create a public execution they would cause anarchy .

Now I find that sick by any moral standard. If you need to blow a woman’s brains out in public to maintain the law you have many serious problems.

PS: I was aware of what her alleged crimes were. Not every one lives in a cave.

[mahdisoldier19]

[QUOTE=wilberhum;411712]Right, she was an example of what was done. It was not an isolated insolent.
I find it sad to say that capital punishment still exist in the US. But it is not a public event. There are two reasons for public executions. Entertainment and to terrorize the people.
I don’t think the Taliban were into entertainment.

No the taliban did it to show the people that if you Kill your husband and sleep with your son thats the Punishment. If you cant seem to understand that then thats your issue.


Now I find that sick by any moral standard. If you need to blow a woman’s brains out in public to maintain the law you have many serious problems.

Thats the only quick way for death? I could imagine if they stoned her to death what the world reaction would of been of how a violent death it was. So until you understand what your talking about, dont open your mouth.

PS: I was aware of what her alleged crimes were. Not every one lives in a cave.

Neither did they, they live in huts, villages and towns.

[wilberhum]

the taliban did it to show the people that if you Kill your husband and sleep with your son thats the Punishment

But you said “The tribe told the taliban if they dont create a public execution they would cause anarchy”.
Do you always change your story to fit your needs?

I could imagine if they stoned her to death what the world reaction would of been of how a violent death it was.

They did that too.

So until you understand what your talking about, dont open your mouth.

So am I to assume that you are the only one with knowledge?

How about answering the question?
Do you conceder the UN a lying pack of scum sucking anti-Islamic lyres?

[Dawud_uk]

Right, she was an example of what was done. It was not an isolated insolent.
I find it sad to say that capital punishment still exist in the US. But it is not a public event. There are two reasons for public executions. Entertainment and to terrorize the people.
I don’t think the Taliban were into entertainment.

peace wilberhum,

it wasnt to terrorise the people, it was to show them that there is a crime in islam for murder and their is a punishment and that one if discovered will inevitabley lead to the other.

people have to be shown right from wrong, now public executions might seem to you a crude way of doing this but it is effective you must admit with the tiny level of crime under the taliban compared to before and after them.

peace,
Daw'ud

[wilberhum]

peace wilberhum,

it wasnt to terrorise the people, it was to show them that there is a crime in islam for murder and their is a punishment and that one if discovered will inevitabley lead to the other.

people have to be shown right from wrong, now public executions might seem to you a crude way of doing this but it is effective you must admit with the tiny level of crime under the taliban compared to before and after them.

peace,
Daw'ud

It is still only an example of many.

Do you conceder the UN a lying pack of scum sucking anti-Islamic lyres?