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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 03:53 AM
:sl:

Does anyone know the position of non-practising Muslims in Islam? Are they considered to be apostates? Evidence from the Quran and Sunnah would be appreciated. :)
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Ansar Al-'Adl
07-14-2006, 03:55 AM
:sl:
Depends what you mean by 'non-practicing'. Which practices don't they adhere to? And is it because they don't believe in them, they don't believe it is necessary to follow them, laziness, or some other reason?

:w:
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 03:55 AM
salamz cheese

depends to what degree.. can u giv examples? someone who doesnt pray is obviously different to someone who.. say for example has a bad mouth but does the 5 pillars... the former is a kafir while the latter is a sinner.

And even the latter can be broken down into categories.. people who do bad things knowing that they're wrong but don't do it due to a weakness in their iman without defying or denying Allah's orders, and those who know that the action is Haram but they think they have the power to set rules for themselves and challenge what Allah has to say... in which case the former is a sinner and the latter is a kafir (because they are literally disbelieving what Allah says etc).

the matter isn't as simple as branding people as Muslim or non Muslim.. the books of Aqidah delve into these matters in great depth.

salamz

edit: lol ansar posted the same time i did!
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 04:03 AM
:sl:

Thanks for the replies. I am refering to Muslims, specifically the younger people, who were born in to Islam but never really practised, they dont pray regularily, fast etc, but they still call themselves Muslims.

Also, isnt there something along the lines of there is no belief after disbelief? So what about the youngsters who were born into Muslims families but didnt practsie at all until they are much older, such as in their 20's? Is that different to apostates returning to belief?

And i dont mean becuase they dont believe that it is true, but rather becuase of lack of education, laziness, just not caring and being in enviroments that do not stress practising.

:w:
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 04:06 AM
Thanks for the replies. I am refering to Muslims, specifically the younger people, who were born in to Islam but never really practised, they dont pray regularily, fast etc, but they still call themselves Muslims.
If they don't pray they are definately not Muslims, the hadith clearly says 'whoever doesnt pray is a Kafir'. Prayer is the discriminator between Muslims and non Muslims.

Also, isnt there something along the lines of there is no belief after disbelief? So what about the youngsters who ere born into Muslims families but didnt practsie at all until they are much older, such as in their 20's? Is that different to apostates returning to belief?
i think u meant 'no sin after disbelief', allahu a'3lam if they're considered apostates returning to Islam (lol i think i know the answer but im not sure how to explain it coz i forgot), but what's important is, they ought to return to their Islam and practice it properly because people aren't Muslims just because their parents are..

And i dont mean becuase they dont believe that it is true, but rather becuase of lack of education, laziness, just not caring and being in enviroments that do not stress practising.
If they are genuinely ignorant, for example a person in no man land who loves Allah and tries to worship him teh way he sees fit (even though its no where near the way Allah told us in the Quran), then definately Allah will reward him and he is a full Muslim. (Infact prophets like Ibrahim and Muhammad are a good example of that prior to recieving the message).

But if they're lazy, in the sense .. where if u tell them to go pray but they want to play football instead, then definatley that's outright Kufr and there's plenty of evidence in the quran and Sunnah to prove that.. if u want the breakdowns etc checkup Ibn Taymiyah or Abdul0wahhab's books of Aqidah they go down to the nitty gritty's..

As for the environment.. the end verses of Surat al-Ahzab describe people who are in corrupt environments, they too will be punished if they heard the message but decided to follow their friends and so forth, but if someone genuinely didn't hear anything about Allah's comamnds... then they are the people of A'3raf (i think its called that), and they're a special case on day of judgement..
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 04:25 AM
:sl:

And if they start to practise later in life and repent for their acts of kufr that they used to do, can they be forgiven? Because i thought disbelief was the one sin that Allah swt doesnt forgive?
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north_malaysian
07-14-2006, 04:27 AM
For me, whoever says "There is No God but Allah, Muhammad is messenger of Allah" is a Muslim. Which means he want to be called and recognized as a Muslim. Practicing or not, it's between him/her and God.
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 04:28 AM
yeh definately!

what is meant by 'disbelief isnt forgiven', i.e. if someone is a disbeliever and they die that way, they will never be forgiven.

whereas a sinner... as long as his sin is between himself and Allah (i.e. doesnt involve taking rights of other people, e.g. swearing) Allah may choose to forgive him without punishing him if he wills.

Even full on apostates (like someoen who says 'nope im not gonna b Muslim nemore', and then they repent) are forgiven... whether they will have the same status as somoene who was firm all the way through is a different matter...

these fellas who are lost when they're young and then they practice get alott of reward though, because they're not exactly like the "full on" apostate who comes in and out of Islam knowingly.
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 04:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
For me, whoever says "There is No God but Allah, Muhammad is messenger of Allah" is a Muslim. Which means he want to be called and recognized as a Muslim. Practicing or not, it's between him/her and God.

Then why did the prophet say "the discriminator between us and them is prayer", and he said "whoever leaves prayer is a disbeliever", and how about the many verses revealed pounding the hypocrites who said 'there is no god but Allah etc' because of their other deeds...

there's more to Islam than words... otherwise Ibleed would enter Jannah!! lol after all he does believe that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his final messenger! (im serious)
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 04:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
For me, whoever says "There is No God but Allah, Muhammad is messenger of Allah" is a Muslim. Which means he want to be called and recognized as a Muslim. Practicing or not, it's between him/her and God.
:sl:

But thats not totally true. When the prophet (saw) passed away, and Abu bakr r.a. became the leader, some tribes refused to pay zakat to the state out of arrogance, they said they used to pay to prophet Muhammad (saw) because he was Allah swt messenger but out of their arrogance they saw Abu bakr r.a. not worthy of receiving their zakat payment. And those people were considered apostates, not becuase they rejected the shahadah, but simply becuase they refused to pay zakat.
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 04:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
yeh definately!

what is meant by 'disbelief isnt forgiven', i.e. if someone is a disbeliever and they die that way, they will never be forgiven.

whereas a sinner... as long as his sin is between himself and Allah (i.e. doesnt involve taking rights of other people, e.g. swearing) Allah may choose to forgive him without punishing him if he wills.

Even full on apostates (like someoen who says 'nope im not gonna b Muslim nemore', and then they repent) are forgiven... whether they will have the same status as somoene who was firm all the way through is a different matter...

these fellas who are lost when they're young and then they practice get alott of reward though, because they're not exactly like the "full on" apostate who comes in and out of Islam knowingly.
:sl:

thanks a lot. do you have any evidence for that? like hadiths or something?
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 04:50 AM
verse 68 to 71 is a good example of it..

also its pretty well known the ruling of the apostate... he's given 3 days to repent before he loses his head, and if he does he's a Muslim.. live example was Abu Bakr n how he dealt with them.

the ruling is, as long as someone repents before the 'ghar-gharah' (point where the soul is in the neck about to escape the body) his repentence is accepted no matter what the crime. (the repentence for being a disbeliever because u dont pray is to pray, and repentence for being a mushrik is to become a Muslim, repentence of swearing is to not swear etc etc..)

and ofcourse.. as logn as the sun doesnt rise from the other side.

salamz

ps: great reply 2 bro northern
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 04:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
verse 68 to 71 is a good example of it..
:sl:

lol which surah?
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 05:03 AM
woops lol furqan...
salams
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Malaikah
07-14-2006, 05:15 AM
I got some info about it (Source)

Apostasy Apostasy is defined as a Muslim making a statement or performing an action that takes him out of the fold of Islam. The punishment prescribed for it in the Sunnah is execution, and it came as a remedy for a problem that existed at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). This problem was that a group of people would publicly enter into Islam together then leave Islam together in order to cause doubt and uncertainty in the hearts of the believers. The Qur’ân relates this event to us:

A group from the People of the Scripture said: ‘Believe in what came down upon those who believe at the beginning of the day, then disbelieve at the end of the day, so perhaps they might return from faith.

Thus, the prescribed punishment for apostasy was instituted so that apostasy could not be used as a means of causing doubt in Islam.

At the same time, the apostate is given time to repent, so if he has a misconception or is in doubt about something, then his cause of doubt can be removed and the truth clarified to him. He is encouraged to repent for three days.
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north_malaysian
07-14-2006, 07:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
Then why did the prophet say "the discriminator between us and them is prayer", and he said "whoever leaves prayer is a disbeliever", and how about the many verses revealed pounding the hypocrites who said 'there is no god but Allah etc' because of their other deeds...

there's more to Islam than words... otherwise Ibleed would enter Jannah!! lol after all he does believe that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his final messenger! (im serious)
Only God knows who prays and who not. Even if a fella pray a million times, it doesnt mean that Allah would accept his prayers (if he did it ignorantly or just to show off) - are they apostates in our eyes? We dont know. but Allah knows the best. So as we are weak creature of allah just can presume they're Muslims. Unless they went to church and pray to the cross etc.
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north_malaysian
07-14-2006, 07:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

But thats not totally true. When the prophet (saw) passed away, and Abu bakr r.a. became the leader, some tribes refused to pay zakat to the state out of arrogance, they said they used to pay to prophet Muhammad (saw) because he was Allah swt messenger but out of their arrogance they saw Abu bakr r.a. not worthy of receiving their zakat payment. And those people were considered apostates, not becuase they rejected the shahadah, but simply becuase they refused to pay zakat.
There is a difference between:

1) People who said they dont want to pay zakat because prophet Muhammad is dead.

2) People who dont pay zakat but still acknowledge that zakat is a pillar of Islam.
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 07:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Only God knows who prays and who not. Even if a fella pray a million times, it doesnt mean that Allah would accept his prayers (if he did it ignorantly or just to show off) - are they apostates in our eyes? We dont know. but Allah knows the best. So as we are weak creature of allah just can presume they're Muslims. Unless they went to church and pray to the cross etc.
Salams bro,

sorry if i wasnt clear... what i mean is, as long as they are acting like Muslims and doing everything that Muslim should or must do, and they don't show any clear signs of hypocrisy or apostasy (for example, mocking a Muslimah's hijab or a brothers beard or making fun of the quran or cussing the prophet etc etc) then it is not for us to enter their hearts, and we should treat them like Muslims and love them as we are suppose to.

What i am saying though, if someone's actions clearly contradict their words.. then that is a different case. like the example u gave worshipping the cross instead of Allah for example, or not praying etc etc...

take care
salamz
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 07:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
There is a difference between:

1) People who said they dont want to pay zakat because prophet Muhammad is dead.

2) People who dont pay zakat but still acknowledge that zakat is a pillar of Islam.
um actually out of the two categories u mentioned, the former would be better than the latter, because the former made ijtihad and it was a sincere ijtihad for alot of them, but Abu Bakr didn't take a bar of it because it was directly against the correct understanding..

the latter are worse becasue they're not making ijtihad and they're just being lazy about it... they would be treated exactly the way the prophet treated the people of taif who got involved in usury, he layed seige on them for a pretty long time and they got punished for it pretty severely. They where fought as if they where non Muslims..

and we know that usury is not a pillar of Islam the way zakat is...
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north_malaysian
07-14-2006, 07:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
um actually out of the two categories u mentioned, the former would be better than the latter, because the former made ijtihad and it was a sincere ijtihad for alot of them, but Abu Bakr didn't take a bar of it because it was directly against the correct understanding..

the latter are worse becasue they're not making ijtihad and they're just being lazy about it... they would be treated exactly the way the prophet treated the people of taif who got involved in usury, he layed seige on them for a pretty long time and they got punished for it pretty severely. They where fought as if they where non Muslims..

and we know that usury is not a pillar of Islam the way zakat is...
But still for the second category, it's unfair for us to call them apostates isnt it?
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 07:22 AM
not at all, it's them who are putting themselves in doubts way, not us... this topic has been covered alot by the scholars and none of them blamed anyone who classified such a group as non Muslim..

ofcourse we're being veeeery general here, specifics can change depending on situation.. but u know what i mean.

A good example is when Umar told the prophet 'let me behead that hypocrite' (the companion who gave news to makkah that Muhammad pBUH was on his way).. and in another narration (let me behad that kafir) - and ibn hajar emphasized veeeery hard that the 2nd narration is very authentic, adn we know full well that the companion was NOT a kafir, non the less the prophet didnt tell him 'no Umar dont say that because he is a Muslim, and because u called him a kafir and he isnt a kafir that means u are a kafir'.

salams
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north_malaysian
07-14-2006, 07:38 AM
OK...good explanation.

BTW I'm confused with some Islamists (NOT ALL OF THEM, JUST MINORITY OF THEM) in my country:

1) Non Practicing Muslims, but want to be known as Muslims - they called this people as disbelievers, kafir etc.

2) Ex-Muslims who wants to be known as Non Muslims - they dont want this to happen. For your info there are thousands of ex-Muslims cant leave Islam because it's hard to do so.

I mean isnt it better to just let th murtad be kafir, rather than calling non practicing muslim a kafir?
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 07:43 AM
salams bro :)

teh first category, they have the right to be recognized as Muslims... all they need to do is behave like Muslims lol (do the minimum atleast, pray!)... but they are behaving like someone who says 'i want to get good grades and get a high mark' but they don't do anything, they dont study and then when people say 'they're hopeless at this subject'... the student starts blaming ppl for labelling him things!

as for teh second category... they are apostates regardless what people try to do to give them a good name.. its as simple as that.

take care all the best
salams
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north_malaysian
07-14-2006, 08:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
salams bro :)

as for teh second category... they are apostates regardless what people try to do to give them a good name.. its as simple as that.

take care all the best
salams
So why Muslims dont want Malaysian government yo have a law to make easier for them to be declared a Non Muslim? (FYI - we have no hudud laws in Malaysia)
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lolwatever
07-14-2006, 08:41 AM
i think that's a topic of its own that's not quite related to sis cheese's question :)
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07-14-2006, 05:32 PM
edit
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------
07-14-2006, 05:33 PM
:sl:

Can sum1 be referred to a Muslim if they don't pray 5 times a day?

Answers referring to the hadith and Qur'an plz Jazakallah Khairun in advance!

:w:
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chacha_jalebi
07-14-2006, 05:37 PM
salaam

lol sista aalimah mashallah, u alwyz start debates gud on ya :D

now now i wud say yesh, bcosh the shahadah is the 1st thin a muslim gota do 2 b a muslim, and u say den dat ur classified as a muslim innit aye aye

but but but, theres also a hadiths in bukhari in which RasoolAllah (saw) has sed....

"what seperates us from the kafirs, is our performin of salah"

but i wud say, its not 4 me 2 judge who is muslim & who aint, up2 Allah (swt) 2 accept us & inshallah he will :p ameen
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------
07-14-2006, 05:38 PM
Ameen to the dua akhee!

Any more takers? Lol seriously tho, other views Insha'Allah?
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chacha_jalebi
07-14-2006, 05:39 PM
no :D i was right :p
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chacha_jalebi
07-14-2006, 05:53 PM
can me just ask, so if someone says shahadah, but dont pray, fast, give zakat is they stil accepted as a muslim? :D
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
07-14-2006, 05:54 PM
dis gyal da utha day goes, we cant call ourselves muslims.. den i go yh u can, cuz we bleive in Allah and that prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) is the last prophet.. so basically we took da shahadah.. den she goes, no, we dont do this, we do that blah blah.. den i go 2 her, so we'r not xactli goin 2 cal outselves christian r we? n den she went noo, i didnt mean that.. i woz gettin so confused by her.. i tld her loads of times, u mean we r muslims but not practisin.. she always finkn she ryt.. anyhoooooo!!

agree wid da bro :D
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07-14-2006, 06:12 PM
Hmm... interesting...any other views Insha'Allah?
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Kittygyal
07-14-2006, 06:35 PM
well am a revert and i can't pray but i call myself a muslim cause i have reverted from a Christain and hopefully i will leanr as i am going to have me OP soon so i pray to God he leads me to the right path.
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07-14-2006, 06:57 PM
Yh....what if they don't pray 5 times a day?
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shaharoun
07-15-2006, 05:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

And if they start to practise later in life and repent for their acts of kufr that they used to do, can they be forgiven? Because i thought disbelief was the one sin that Allah swt doesnt forgive?
If they will truly repent and don't turn on their sins they used to do before,
for sure they will be forgiven by allah.
"And seek the forgiveness of Allah, certainly, Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful. " ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #106)
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Hijrah
07-15-2006, 02:11 PM
if u DELIBERATELY miss prayers u are guilty of apostasy...most just don't remember of prayers...but if u start keeping your prayers again, well, that is a different story
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lolwatever
07-16-2006, 01:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
can me just ask, so if someone says shahadah, but dont pray, fast, give zakat is they stil accepted as a muslim? :D
Nope, The hadith clearly says 'whoever doesnt pray is a disbeliever' and the other one 'the discriminatn between us and them is the prayer'...

i hope that answers the q inshalha, (same aplpies 2 sis alimah's q)

tc salam
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Hijaabi22
07-16-2006, 04:15 PM
nah man a muslim is sum1 hu believes in Allah(swt) and his messenger and as bro chacha sed lol thats the first and most imporatant thing that makes a muslim a muslim *whooooshs off 2 pray * :hiding:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-16-2006, 04:18 PM
there are many things which take a person out of the folds of islam, even by saying a sentence we can be taken out of the folds of islam.

I dont know what everysingle thing is but lets say this, if the faith and regret remains, if the reason is clear and valid then yes the person is clearly still a muslim.


gotta say Allahu Allam tho... i dont know :(

**I dont know** <--- Mark of a believer who has fear of avoiding stating what he doesnt really know !
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Abdul-Raouf
07-16-2006, 04:19 PM
Brothers/Sisters there is a difference between a MUSLIM AND MU'MIN and i think this might be the answer for her question:?
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-16-2006, 04:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muzammil
Friends there is a difference between a MUSLIM AND MU'MIN and i think this might be the answer for her question:?
mashAllah :)
PS: im your brother not friend :rant:
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Abdul-Raouf
07-16-2006, 04:26 PM
i changed it brother
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-16-2006, 04:28 PM
jazakAllah khair :)
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muslim_friend
07-16-2006, 04:40 PM
:sl:

Volume 001 : Purification and Prayer. Fiqh 1.077B.
---------------------------------------------------
Section : One Who Ignores His Prayers.

Not praying and denying its obligation is seen as disbelief and places the person outside the religion of Islam. All scholars agree on this point. They base their opinion on several hadith, some of which are:

Jabir reports that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Between a person and disbelief is discarding prayer." (Related by Ahmad, Muslim, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmizhi and Ibn Majah.)

Buraidah reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The pact between us and them is prayer. Whoever abandons it is a disbeliever." (Related by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmizhi, anNasa'i and Ibn Majah.)

'Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn al-'Aas reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, one day mentioned the prayer and said, "Whoever guards and observes his prayer, they will be a light and a proof and a saviour for him on the Day of Resurrection. Whoever does not guard and observe them, they will not be a light or a proof or a saviour for him. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be with Qarun, Fir'aun, Haman and Ubayy ibn Khalf." (Related by Ahmad, at-Tabarani and Ibn Hibban. Its chain is excellent.)

That one who does not pray will be with the leaders of the unbelievers in the Hereafter makes it evident that such a person is an unbeliever. Says Ibn al-Qayyim, "The one who does not pray may be preoccupied with his wealth, kingdom, position or business. If one is kept away from his prayers by his wealth, he will be with Qarun. One whose kingdom keeps him away from the prayers will be with Haman, and one whose business keeps him away from the prayers will be with Ubayy ibn Khalf."

Says 'Abdullah ibn Shaqiq al-'Aqeely, "The companions of Muhammad, peace be upon him, did not consider the abandonment of any act, with the exception of prayer, as being disbelief." (Related by at-Tirmizhi and al-Hakim, who said it met al-Bukahri's and Muslim's conditions.)

Says Muhammad ibn Nasr al-Mirwazi, "I heard Ishaq say, 'It is authentic (that) the Prophet (said or ruled): One who does not pray is an unbeliever." It is from the Prophet himself that one who intentionally does not pray until the time for the prayer is over is an unbeliever."

Says Ibn Hazm, "It has come from 'Umar, 'Abdurahman ibn 'Auf, Mu'azh ibn Jabal, Abu Hurairah and other companions that anyone who skips one obligatory prayer until its time has finished becomes an apostate. We find no difference of opinion among them on this point." This was mentioned by al-Munzhiri in at-Targheeb wa atTarheeb. Then he comments, "A group of companions and those who came after them believed that an intentional decision to skip one prayer until its time is completely finished makes one an unbeliever. The people of this opinion incude 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas, Mu'azh ibn Jabal, Jabir ibn 'Abdullah and Abu ad-Darda'. Among the non-companions who shared this view were Ibn Hanbal, Ishaq ibn Rahwaih, 'Abdullah ibn al-Mubarak, an-Nakha'i, al-Hakim ibn 'Utaibah, Abu Ayyub as-Sakhtiyani, Abu Dawud at-Tayalisi, Abu Bakr ibn Abu Shaibah, Zuhair ibn Harb, and others.

Some hadith make it clear that such a person should be killed. For example:

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The ties of Islam and the principles of the religion are three, and whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever, and his blood becomes lawful: testifying that there is no god except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan." (Related by Abu Ya'la with a hassan chain.) Another narration states, "If anyone leaves one of them, by Allah he becomes an unbeliever and no voluntary deeds or recompense will be accepted from him, and his blood and wealth become lawful." This is a clear indication that such a person is to be killed.

Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)

Umm Salamah related that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "There will be rulers over you who will do good and evil things. Whoever hates these (latter) acts will be innocent of them. Whoever denies them will be safe, but (not) one who accepts and follows them." They asked, "Should we kill them?" He said, "Not if they pray." (Related by Muslim.) Therefore, he made it unlawful to kill even an unjust ruler who observes his prayers.

Abu Sa'eed reported that 'Ali, while he was in Yemen, sent the Prophet some gold, which he then divided among four people. A man said, "O Messenger of Allah, beware of Allah." The Prophet said, "Woe to you. Of all the people of the earth, am I not the most dutiful in being aware of Allah?" Khalid ibn al-Walid said, "O Messenger of Allah, shall I kill him?" He said, "Perhaps he is one of those who pray." Khalid said, "How many people say with their tongues what is not in their hearts?" The Prophet said, "I have not been ordered to look into the hearts of people, nor to rip open their bellies." (Abridged from al-Bukhari and Muslim.) In this hadith also, prayer is given as the reason for not killing a person. It is understood, therefore, that not praying would have resulted in the person's killing.

Even though the preceding hadith clearly rule that one who discards salah becomes an unbeliever and should be killed, many early and later scholars (excluding Abu Hanifah, Malik and ash-Shafi) believe that such people become evildoers who must repent. If such a person does not repent, he is to be killed, that being the prescribed punishment, according to Malik, ash-Shai'i and others. Abu Hanifah maintains that such a person is not to be killed, but must be given a minor punishment and confined until he prays. They say the hadith that calls such people unbelievers refer to those who deny the prayers, and so on. They say that any other interpretation is contradicted by other texts. For example, Allah says, "Lo! Allah does not pardon one who gives Him partners. He pardons all save whom He wills" (an-Nisa' 116). There is also a hadith related by Abu Hurairah and recorded by Ahmad and Muslim in which the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Every prophet has a special supplication that is answered. Every prophet hastened to make his supplication, but I concealed mine and will use it for my nation on the Day of Resurrection. It will be granted--Allah willing--to whoever dies without associating any partners with Allah." Al-Bukhari also recorded that Abu Hurairah reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The person who will be the happiest due to my intercession is the one who says, 'There is no god but Allah' sincerely from his heart."

Says ash-Shaukani, "The truth of the matter is that he becomes an unbeliever who is to be killed for his unbelief. The hadith authenticates that Islamic law calls one who does not pray an unbeliever. It has also put the performance as the barrier between a believer and an unbeliever. Abandoning prayer means he may be called an unbeliever. We need not concern ourselves with arguments presented by those of the opposing opinion. We can say to them: It is not impossible that some types of unbelievers may obtain forgiveness or may have a right to intercession, such as the unbelief of those who pray to (our) qiblah. Nevertheless, the fact remains that they commit some sins which the Islamic law views as unbelief. To turn to the other narrow interpretations is just redundant."

wsalam, hope that helps insha'Allah.
Reply

umm-sulaim
07-16-2006, 04:49 PM
Actually the person that doesn't pray takes himself out the fold of islam the prophet alayhi salaatu wassalaam said concerning the salaah "the agreement between us and them is the salaah" and theres a hadeeth that is even clearer "taariku salaah kaafir" the leaver of prayer is a disbeleiver from hadeeth jaabir i think (i'm not too sure so if i'm wrong please correct me inshaAllah), both ahaadeeth are saheeh,
however we don't say to the one that leaves prayer o so and so you are a kaafir, we don't have the authority to say this, we say his actions are those of kufr disbeleif and he is a faasig wrong doer for perpetrating a major sin.
Some of the scholars say, his actions are a lesser kufr/disbeleif, (kufr duun kufr), and don't think he is a kaafir leaving the fold of islam.
WAllahu a3lam.
Reply

umm-sulaim
07-16-2006, 04:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by umm-sulaim
Actually the person that doesn't pray takes himself out the fold of islam the prophet alayhi salaatu wassalaam said concerning the salaah "the agreement between us and them is the salaah" and theres a hadeeth that is even clearer "taariku salaah kaafir" the leaver of prayer is a disbeleiver from hadeeth jaabir i think (i'm not too sure so if i'm wrong please correct me inshaAllah), both ahaadeeth are saheeh,
however we don't say to the one that leaves prayer o so and so you are a kaafir, we don't have the authority to say this, we say his actions are those of kufr disbeleif and he is a faasig wrong doer for perpetrating a major sin.
Some of the scholars say, his actions are a lesser kufr/disbeleif, (kufr duun kufr), and don't think he is a kaafir leaving the fold of islam.
WAllahu a3lam.
Just saw the ahaadeeth in muslim_friends post, alhamdulilllah,
thanks alhamdulillah!
Reply

muslim_friend
07-16-2006, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by umm-sulaim
Just saw the ahaadeeth in muslim_friends post, alhamdulilllah,
thanks alhamdulillah!
You are welcome sister.
Reply

Umm Yoosuf
07-17-2006, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
:sl:
There is already a similar if not same themed thread here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...g-muslims.html
:w:

:sl:

I would have to agree these two threads are very similar. The same issue is raised. Threads Merged.:sister:
Reply

muslimbilal
07-21-2006, 06:58 AM
In the Name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.

Those who believe in the Unseen. 1


If you want to understand what great happiness and bounty, what great pleasure and ease is to be found in belief in God, listen to this story which is in the form of a comparison:

One time, two men went on a journey for both pleasure and business. One set off in a selfish, inauspicious direction; the other on a godly, propitious way.

Since the selfish man was both conceited, self-centred, and pessimistic, he ended up in what seemed to him to be a most wicked country due to his pessimism. He looked around and everywhere saw the powerless and the unfortunate lamenting in the grasp and at the destruction of fearsome bullying tyrants. He saw the same grievous, painful situation in all the places he travelled. The whole country took on the form of a house of mourning. Apart from becoming drunk, he could find no way of not noticing this grievous and sombre situation. For everyone seemed to him to be an enemy and foreign. And all around he saw horrible corpses and despairing, weeping orphans. His conscience was in a state of torment.

The other man was godly, devout, fair-minded, and with fine morals so that the country he came to was most excellent in his view. This good man saw universal rejoicing in the land he had entered. Everywhere was a joyful festival, a place for the remembrance of God overflowing with rapture and happiness; everyone seemed to him a friend and relation. Throughout the country he saw the festive celebrations of a general discharge from duties accompanied by cries of good wishes and thanks. And he also heard the sound of a drum and band for the enlistment of soldiers with happy calls of "God is Most Great!" and "There is no god but God!" Rather than being grieved at the suffering of both himself and all the people like the first miserable man, this fortunate man was pleased and happy at both his own joy and that of all the inhabitants. Furthermore, he was able to do some profitable trade. He offered thanks to God.

After some while he returned and came across the other man. He understood his condition, and said to him: "You were out of your mind. The ugliness inside you must have been reflected on the outer world so that you imagined laughter to be weeping, and the discharge from duties to be sack and pillage. Come to your senses and purify your heart so that this calamitous veil is raised from your eyes and you can see the truth. For the country of an utterly just, compassionate, beneficent, powerful, order-loving, and kind king could not be in the way you imagined, nor could a country which demonstrated this number of clear signs of progress and achievement." The unhappy man later came to his senses and repented. He said, "Yes, I was crazy through drink. May God be pleased with you, you have saved me from a hellish state."

O my soul! Know that the first man represents an unbeliever, or someone depraved and heedless. In his view the world is a house of universal mourning. All living creature are orphans weeping at the blows of death and separation. Man and the animals are alone and without ties being ripped apart by the talons of the appointed hour. Mighty beings like the mountains and oceans are like horrendous, lifeless corpses. Many grievous, crushing, terrifying delusions like these arise from his unbelief and misguidance, and torment him.

As for the other man, he is a believer. He recognizes and affirms Almighty God. In his view this world is an abode where the Name of the All-Merciful One is constantly recited, a place of instruction for man and the animals, and a field of examination for man and jinn. All animal and human deaths are a demobilization. Those who have completed their duties of life depart from this transient world for another, happy and trouble-free, world so that place may be made for new officials to come and work. The birth of all animals and humans forms their enlistment into the army, their being taken under arms, and the start of their duties. Each living being is a joyful regular soldier, an honest, contented official. And all voices, either glorification of God and the recitation of His Names at the outset of their duties, and the thanks and rejoicing at their ceasing work, or the songs arising from their joy at working. In the view of the believer, all beings are the friendly servants, amicable officials, and agreeable books of his Most Generous Lord and All-Compassionate Owner. Very many more subtle, exalted, pleasurable, and sweet truths like these become manifest and appear from his belief.

That is to say, belief in God bears the seed of what is in effect a Tuba Tree of Paradise, while unbelief conceals the seed of a Zakkum Tree of Hell.

That means that safety and security are only to be found in Islam and belief. In which case, we should continually say, "Praise be to God for the religion of Islam and perfect belief."


***
Reply

SirZubair
07-21-2006, 09:20 AM
:sl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Cxt...elated&search=

Wa'salaam.
Reply

Malaikah
07-21-2006, 09:38 AM
:sl:

^That guy is hilarious lol mashaallah, i think his style is good to get across to the young ones who are kinda 'lost'
Reply

------
07-21-2006, 09:51 AM
Hmmm... I don't find him very intimidating tho..
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SirZubair
07-21-2006, 09:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aalimah
Hmmm... I don't find him very intimidating tho..
Try watching more of his videos.

He brings across his message in a really good,funny sorta way. :)
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------
07-21-2006, 10:08 AM
So the Muslims that don't pray have gone away from the fold of Islam?
Reply

lolwatever
07-21-2006, 10:12 AM
ya.
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Halima
07-21-2006, 10:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

Does anyone know the position of non-practising Muslims in Islam? Are they considered to be apostates? Evidence from the Quran and Sunnah would be appreciated. :)


Beware: A VERY long article


  • All the Prophets (peace be upon them) came with one religion, which is to profess the unity of Allah by worshipping Him alone, and to declare that Allah is free from any defects or needs. The objective of the Prophets like Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them) was to take people from the worship of Allah's creation to the worship of Allah alone, to liberate humanity from all forms of disbelief and polytheism, and to guide them towards their Lord in a clear manner.


  • Christians were in the same good state right after Jesus (peace be upon him) came, since they were the guardians of the revelation that Allah sent to `Jesus (peace be upon him). Unfortunately, after some time, they forgot parts of these teachings and were affected by human frailties, so they corrupted the scripture and added to it their personal opinions.


  • At the same time, due to the Roman oppression of the Christian scholars and worshippers, many devoted people were killed. The killing of their scholars, the burning of their books, and the razing of their churches had a major effect on their losing much of the pure scripture and their going astray from the law of the Torah.


  • The Christians thereafter entered a new era of deifying Jesus (peace be upon him). More corruptions came about by the numerous translations and commentaries which were added to the original text, creating clear contradictions. The priests and monks convened several councils. This time is known in the Christian history as the era of the councils. During the Nicean Council in 338 AD, the priests formally sanctioned the idea of deifying Jesus (peace be upon him) and cursing whoever calls to true monotheism. They set laws to arrange church affairs and declared only four gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - to be acceptable.


  • It is worth mentioning the important role that was played played by Saint Paul in introducing these doctrines in the first place. He had formerly been known as “Saul the Jew” and was a bitter enemy of the Christians. He converted to Christianity and promoted it until he was approved by the Disciple Barnabas who supported him and introduced him to the Disciples who also approved of him.


  • After attaining this approval, he began to make many additions to the Christian religion, such as abandonment of the Law of the Torah, which was now being referred to as the "Old Testament". He called people to follow instead the "New Testament". He introduced the idea that Jesus (peace be upon him) was the son of God and built upon it the dogma of crucifixion and dying for the sins of humanity. He made all these changes under the pretense of unifying the Holy Book and making it free from contradictions.


  • The creed of Christianity was ultimately to stabilize on Trinitarianism and the deification of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), that he was the son of God, and that he died as a sacrifice to atone for the sins of humanity. The Christian leadership eliminated the scriptures in which mention was made of glad tidings of a Prophet after Jesus, referred to in the bible as the Periclete which means “the one possessing a praiseworthy character and morals”.


  • This new ideology spread among the Christians, and the religious authorities imposed it on all followers of the Church. In this way, the religion of Jesus (peace be upon him) was transformed from a pure religion for the worship of one Lord to a religion of polytheism, disbelief and deifying other than God. The pure religion of Jesus (peace be upon him) which called to the worship of one God who is free from all defects and limitations was transformed into to a religion in which its followers believe that the Divine entered into human form and that God has a son. They, in fact, worship other than God and sanctify the cross which they claim Jesus (peace be upon him) was crucified upon. They also fell into number of contradictions and major differences among themselves.


  • If we look at the history of Christianity, we can see that the religion that Jesus (peace be upon him) and all of the other Prophets came with was corrupted and changed into something else.


  • When Christianity ceased being able to guide the people, and instead became a cause of their corruption, Allah sent the last Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to call the people back to monotheism just as Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them) had done beforehand. He glorified God Allah above having a son or any other human frailties. He brought a noble and just code of Law. He spread knowledge, goodness, modesty, and justice.


  • Whoever enters into Islam will find in it every good and every honor, just as did those who entered into the true faith of Islam when it came with Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them) and obeyed those Prophets and followed them.

  • Islam provides a complete and wholesome system of life embracing all of life's psychological, intellectual, emotional and practical aspects. If it is put into genuine practice, it brings balance and peace to a person as well as security, prosperity, and true civilization for humanity as a whole. The reason for this is that this religion conforms to human nature and is in harmony with it, because it is the religion that was sent by the Creator of humanity. Therefore, it does not contradict with human nature nor is it incompatible with it.


  • In this way, Islam offers humanity real benefits in their worldly life and in the Hereafter. It secures for them their welfare in this life and saves them from what is detrimental to them to the extent that it is put into practice.


  • By merely having a proper concept of one’s Lord and Creator, a person attains great intellectual, emotional, and practical benefits. This is enhanced further when that person puts this understanding into full practice.
Reply

lolwatever
07-22-2006, 01:46 AM
salam sis jazaks for that, but that doesn't explain whether a non practising Muslim is a Muslim or not.
Reply

------
07-22-2006, 10:51 AM
Gud point sis
Reply

Halima
07-22-2006, 02:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
salam sis jazaks for that, but that doesn't explain whether a non practising Muslim is a Muslim or not.
Don't think about that, just start practicing it! :) We should have mercy and forgiveness to Allah(swt) despite our past or failures.
Reply

nennar
07-22-2006, 04:31 PM
salaam alaikum!

so what do you called a man who doesent pray, only fast in ramdhan, but curse, backbit and dosent behave him self in a good manner to his family, but did say ! there is no god but Allah and muhammad is his prophet????
Reply

------
07-22-2006, 06:02 PM
Erm erm erm... help lol sum1
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-22-2006, 07:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nennar
salaam alaikum!

so what do you called a man who doesent pray, only fast in ramdhan, but curse, backbit and dosent behave him self in a good manner to his family, but did say ! there is no god but Allah and muhammad is his prophet????

2 things sis :):

1.
SAHIH BUKHARI
Volume 8, Book 76, Number 500:
Narrated Sa'd bin Sahl As-Sa'idi:

The Prophet looked at a man fighting against the pagans and he was one of the most competent persons fighting on behalf of the Muslims. The Prophet said, "Let him who wants to look at a man from the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire, look at this (man)." Another man followed him and kept on following him till he (the fighter) was injured and, seeking to die quickly, he placed the blade tip of his sword between his breasts and leaned over it till it passed through his shoulders (i.e., committed suicide)." The Prophet added, "A person may do deeds that seem to the people as the deeds of the people of Paradise while in fact, he is from the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire: and similarly a person may do deeds that seem to the people as the deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire while in fact, he is from the dwellers of Paradise. Verily, the (results of) deeds done, depend upon the last actions."

We cant tell just what a person is no matter what, even if they seem to be the worst of people or the best of people.

2.


SAHIH BUKHARI
Volume 4, Book 53, Number 333:
Narrated Safiya:

(the wife of the Prophet) That she came to visit Allah's Apostle while he was in Itikaf(i.e. seclusion in the Mosque during the last ten days of Ramadan. When she got up to return, Allah's Apostle got up with her and accompanied her, and when he reached near the gate of the Mosque close to the door (of the house) of Um Salama, the wife of the Prophet, two Ansari men passed by them and greeted Allah's Apostle and then went away. Allah's Apostle addressed them saying, "Don't hurry! (She is my wife)," They said, "Glorified be Allah! O Allah's Apostle (You are far away from any suspicion)," and his saying was hard on them. Allah's Apostle said, "Satan circulates in the mind of a person as blood does (in his body). I was afraid that Satan might put some (evil) thoughts in your minds."
these two things show, satan can easily influence our thinking therefore we shouldnt try to arrive at a conclusion for any human. Good or bad its not for us to decide, Allah will decide that, how bout we jus do wat we feel is right and stik to that :D

:salamext:
Reply

nennar
07-22-2006, 07:36 PM
salaam alaikum! :brother: majeed!

i can see you point! thank you! i have learned some more:thankyou:
Reply

Les_Nubian
07-26-2006, 01:07 PM
Is someone who is perfectly capable of "practicing" Islam, but chooses not to, really a "Muslim" anymore?
Reply

nennar
07-26-2006, 02:18 PM
no this also my question??????? .....
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-26-2006, 02:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
Is someone who is perfectly capable of "practicing" Islam, but chooses not to, really a "Muslim" anymore?
they dont have faith i gess, why would you not practise if you believe u'll go to hell for not practising :eek:
Reply

nennar
07-26-2006, 02:26 PM
my husband believe!!!! , but he doesent practise! he has a bad mouth and he is always angry, he swears and he is not nice to me and the children! he is a born muslim, yet he dont care, but say to me that allah will forgive him all when he starts to pray????????????????
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-26-2006, 02:30 PM
subhanAllah. sis if i was you i would make dua constantly for him and hope ALlah opens his heart, at the same time give him dawa inshaAllah.

May Allah guide your husband AMEEN!

:salamext:
Reply

nennar
07-26-2006, 02:35 PM
salaam:brother:

i pray everyday that Allah may guide him to the right pad...... and inchallah i will sucsed:thankyou:
Reply

- Qatada -
07-26-2006, 03:27 PM
:salamext:


Question:

My husband neglects his religion; he does not fast in Ramadaan and he does not pray, and moreover, he stops me from doing any good deed. He has also started to be so suspicious of me, that he has left his work to stay home so he can watch over me. What should I do?



Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible to stay with a husband who is like this, because by neglecting the salaah (prayer) he is a kaafir, and it is not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a kaafir or stay with him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… if you ascertain that they [women] are true believers, send them not back to the disbelievers, they are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them…” [al-Mumtahinah 60:10]

The marriage between you and him is null and void, and there can be no nikaah (marriage) between you unless Allaah guides him and he repents to Allaah and comes back to Islam. In that case the marriage will remain valid. The husband’s conduct is not correct, and it seems to me that he is suffering from some kind of (mental) illness, namely paranoia and waswaas (insinuating whispers of the Shaytaan) from which some people suffer with regard to their worship and their dealings with others. Nothing will get rid of this sickness but remembering Allaah (dhikr), seeking refuge in Him and putting one’s trust in Him to get rid of it. What matters is that for your part, you have to leave him and not stay with him, because he is a kaafir and you are a believer. With regard to your husband, we advise him to come back to his religion and to seek refuge with Allaah from the accursed Shaytaan, and to try to recite some beneficial du’aa’s with which to rid his heart of this waswaas. We ask Allaah to help him. And Allaah knows best.


From the Fataawa of Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, in al-Da’wah magazine, no. 1709, p. 34

source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...eng&txt=salaah
Reply

- Qatada -
07-26-2006, 03:29 PM
:salamext:


Question:

The saheeh ahaadeeth state clearly that the one who neglects prayer is a kaafir. If we take the hadeeth at face value, it appears that we are obliged to deprive the person who neglects prayer deliberately of all his rights of inheritance, a separate cemetery should be allocated for such people, and we cannot pray for them or greet them with salaam, because there is no greeting of peace for a kaafir. Let us not forget that if we were to calculate the number of men, believers and non-believers alike, who pray, we will find it is only 6%, and among women the number is even less. What does Islam have to say about this? What is the ruling about giving or returning the greeting of salaam to one who neglects prayer?



Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars have differed concerning the Muslim who deliberately neglects salaah without denying that it is obligatory. Some of them say that he is definitely a kaafir who has gone beyond the pale of Islam. He is considered to be a murtadd (apostate) who is to be given three days to repent – if he does not, he is to be executed for his apostasy. The funeral prayer will not be recited over him, and he will not be buried in the Muslim graveyard. The greeting of salaam is not to be given to him, in life or in death, and his greeting is not to be returned; prayers for forgiveness and mercy for him cannot be offered; he cannot inherit, neither can his wealth be inherited, instead it is to be given to the Muslim treasury (bayt al-maal). This ruling applies whether the number of people who are neglecting their prayers are many or a few.

This opinion is the soundest and most correct, because of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “The difference between us and them is salaah. Whoever neglects it is a kaafir.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad and the authors of Sunan with a saheeh isnaad); and: “(Nothing stands) between a man and kufr and shirk, except prayer: (whoever neglects it becomes a kaafir and a mushrik).” (Reported by Imaam Muslim in his Saheeh, with other similar ahaadeeth).

The majority of scholars said that if a person denies that prayer is obligatory, he is a kaafir and an apostate from the religion of Islam. The ruling concerning such a person is as described above. If he does not deny that it is obligatory, but he neglects it because of laziness, for example, then he is guilty of a major sin (kabeerah), but he is not considered to be beyond the pale of Islam. He should be given three days in which to repent. If he does, then al-hamdu lillah (praise be to Allaah); if he does not, then he should be executed, but this is a punishment, not because he became a kaafir. In this case, he should be washed (ghusl, after death) and wrapped in a shroud (kafn). The funeral prayer should be offered for him, prayers can be offered for forgiveness and mercy for him, and he should be buried in the Muslim graveyard. He can inherit and be inherited from. In general, all the rules concerning Muslims who are sinners apply to him, in life and in death.


(From Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 6/49)

source: http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...eng&txt=salaah



:wasalamex
Reply

nennar
07-26-2006, 03:34 PM
i see your point! but what if he say he will kill you rather to let you go?
Reply

- Qatada -
07-26-2006, 03:40 PM
:salamext:


I think you should tell him that if someone doesn't pray salaah, and leaves it completely - then the scholars say that the person is a kafir, and Allaah does not have mercy on the kuffar.. so try to get him close to islam, try your best to persuade him to perform salaah and make lots of dua' for him, your children and all the muslims.

Tell him the hadith aswell showing that the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said aswell that:

“The difference between us and them is salaah. Whoever neglects it is a kaafir.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad and the authors of Sunan with a saheeh isnaad);

and:

“(Nothing stands) between a man and kufr and shirk, except prayer: (whoever neglects it becomes a kaafir and a mushrik).” (Reported by Imaam Muslim in his Saheeh, with other similar ahaadeeth).


jazak Allaahu khayr.. please remember that dua' is really important, and Allaah will help you insha'Allaah, as long as you have patience.


:wasalamex
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-26-2006, 03:48 PM
sis if u die defending yourself and your religion and your children you will become shaheed inshaAllah.


INSHALLAH THAT WONT BE THE CASE> but i thought that will comfort you inshaALlah.

May ALlah guide us Ameen


:salamext:
Reply

searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 12:56 AM
It sounds like the non-practicing muslims are Kafir. Does this mean that their children are not considered muslim?
Reply

lolwatever
07-27-2006, 08:22 AM
lol not all non practising muslims are kafir (if u read thru this thread ull find out that only a selection of non practising muslims are actually out of fold of islam).

But regardless wehther kafir or not, christian or budhist, kids are born in state of purity, they don't inherit sins of their parents or any silly thing like that... every kid is born on the 'fitrah' (natural inclination), and the parents either convert him to a jew, christian or fireworshiper etc.

hoep that answers it :)

ok hehe back 2 topic b4 we start drifting - feel free 2 start another therad if u wanna carry on by ne chance -
Reply

khalid zaheer
07-27-2006, 08:37 AM
Assalaam o alaikum

Every one who said Allah is one and Muhammd (saw) was a prophet is muslim?

Allah hafiz
Reply

lolwatever
07-27-2006, 08:40 AM
lol read first page or 2 of this thread bro i think i explained it to someone, that's exactly not the case...

erm.. it's kinda like saying, someone who says he loves you but then he bashes and slaps you is still considered to be your friend.

salamz
Reply

nennar
07-27-2006, 09:02 AM
salaam:brother: !

thank you so much! and i promise i will make lots of dua and promise to be patient:)
Reply

khalid zaheer
07-27-2006, 09:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
lol read first page or 2 of this thread bro i think i explained it to someone, that's exactly not the case...
Assalaam o alaikum

I could not understand what you try to explain there. please explain in a little easy words.

Allah hafiz
Reply

lolwatever
07-27-2006, 09:35 AM
the easy answer is yes as long as they fulfill the basic requirements.

E.g. The 5 pillars of Islam (prayer, fasting, zakat, Hajj) and they don't do things that take them out of the religion, for example.. mock the prophet or his hadith, or fight a Muslim who is trying to advise people to do good etc.

As long as he does that then he is a Muslim in the sight of Allah, if he does bad things like stealing or swearing then he is a sinner, but that doesn't amke him non Muslim.

hope that helps :)

salamz
Reply

searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 09:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
the easy answer is yes as long as they fulfill the basic requirements.

E.g. The 5 pillars of Islam (prayer, fasting, zakat, Hajj) and they don't do things that take them out of the religion, for example.. mock the prophet or his hadith, or fight a Muslim who is trying to advise people to do good etc.

As long as he does that then he is a Muslim in the sight of Allah, if he does bad things like stealing or swearing then he is a sinner, but that doesn't amke him non Muslim.

hope that helps :)

salamz
So it doesn't make him a kafir but he still needs punished, by death even?
Reply

lolwatever
07-27-2006, 09:42 AM
Heya searchign soul,

doesn't amke who a kafir? u mean someone who doesn't pray? i said above that prayer (amongst the other pillars) is minimum requirement for someone to be considered Muslim. If he doesn't pray, he's an apostate who is worthy of punishment.

hope that helps :)
all the best
Reply

searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 09:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
Heya searchign soul,

doesn't amke who a kafir? u mean someone who doesn't pray? i said above that prayer (amongst the other pillars) is minimum requirement for someone to be considered Muslim. If he doesn't pray, he's an apostate who is worthy of punishment.

hope that helps :)
all the best
Yes, I am referring to a non praying muslim. Is a non praying muslim kafir or just apostate?
Reply

lolwatever
07-27-2006, 09:46 AM
apostate is someone who jumps in and then out of religion.

A 'normal' Kafir is someoen who wasn't Muslim in the first place... so basically "every apostate is a kafir, but not every kafir is an apostate" ... kidna like "every male is a human, but not every human is a male" ;)

so.. if a Muslim decided to stop praying, then he's an apostate.
Reply

khalid zaheer
07-27-2006, 09:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
E.g. The 5 pillars of Islam (prayer, fasting, zakat, Hajj) and they don't do things that take them out of the religion, for example.. mock the prophet or his hadith, or fight a Muslim who is trying to advise people to do good etc.
Assalaam o alaikum

First, you described four pillers instead of five, which is fifth? Second, fasting, zaka and hajj is for those who are able to bear them. When a person is ill or not able to fasting due to any cause then how he will fullfil the requirment. zaka and hajj for the rich persons how a poor can fullfil this requirment.

And the last piller is prayer, it is for every one in any condition. (certainly some relaxations are there too) Means if a person don't offer the prayer then he could not be called muslim. if this logic is right then I think most of the persons of the muslim community not able to called muslim. what you say?


Allah hafiz
Reply

lolwatever
07-27-2006, 10:06 AM
^^ salams bro, lol what i mentioned there was abo----e brevity i treid to keep it simple.

yes you're right, zakat is for those who qualify to pay it (those who are able), same goes for Hajj.. the 1st pillar that i didnt mention because it was too obvious "Shahadah" (testimony that there is no diety worthy of worship except allah and Muhammad is his messenger).

As for your final question, it's not about quantity, its about quality, just because the entire Muslim word drinks alchohol or commits adultery or steals doesn't remove the ruling that they're all villains and sinners.

same goes for prayer, as harsh as it may sound, but it's just a constant in nature. just like the way protons will always be 1833.xxx times more massive than electrons regardless of what people think. Just becasue the majority of the world thought that protons weighed same as electrons doesn't change the fact does it?

all the best
salamzzzz :)
Reply

searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by khalid zaheer
And the last piller is prayer, it is for every one in any condition. (certainly some relaxations are there too) Means if a person don't offer the prayer then he could not be called muslim. if this logic is right then I think most of the persons of the muslim community not able to called muslim. what you say?


Allah hafiz
I think you're right. If lack of prayer renders one non muslim, I doubt that there's a lot of muslims in the world.

It's not to the advantage of the muslim to kill all the non praying apostates. Other than being sad it really wouldn't bother non muslims if all the muslim apostates were killed. The non muslims would bounce back and forget about it after a while. But don't you hate to think what death to all apostates would do to the ummah? Think how long it would take to build the numbers back up?

This is why I think prescribing death for apostates is outdated and will never be acceptable to most muslims. Muslims are either too greedy to risk reducing the ummah or muslims simply no longer believe in this practice.
Reply

- Qatada -
07-27-2006, 05:12 PM
Hi searchingsoul.


Islam doesn't need a huge number to show that we follow islam, or to show that islam is the true faith.

Just go back to the times of Abu Bakr (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with him) - there was a small minority of muslims back then [only the arabian peninsula] - yet he fought against all the apostates. He knew that this was going to be a setback, because islam is a religion for mankind. Yet he still went ahead with the plan, because islam is more about submitting ones self, and it has nothing to do with how much people follow it, but it depends on how much one follows it.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Reply

searchingsoul
07-27-2006, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Hi searchingsoul.


Islam doesn't need a huge number to show that we follow islam, or to show that islam is the true faith.

Just go back to the times of Abu Bakr (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with him) - there was a small minority of muslims back then [only the arabian peninsula] - yet he fought against all the apostates. He knew that this was going to be a setback, because islam is a religion for mankind. Yet he still went ahead with the plan, because islam is more about submitting ones self, and it has nothing to do with how much people follow it, but it depends on how much one follows it.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
Thanks Fi_Sabilillah. I wasn't aware that Abu Bakr participated in a form of apostate cleansing. I'll look into this more. But you're right. If a person thinks that they possess the true meaning of religion they don't need a lot of followers. What matters is what each person believes.
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snakelegs
07-27-2006, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:
[indent]
.... or greet them with salaam, because there is no greeting of peace for a kaafir.
many muslims greet me with salaam, knowing i am a kafir, and i greet them with peace. are they sinning by doing so? sorry to go slightly off topic, but i've never read this before.
Reply

lolwatever
07-27-2006, 08:51 PM
^^ they definately aren't kafirs for doing that, that's for sure. but i don't know about the ruling.

how about giv them dawah lol :giggling: ;)

sorry not much of help there.

tc
all the best
Reply

snakelegs
07-27-2006, 09:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
^^ they definately aren't kafirs for doing that, that's for sure. but i don't know about the ruling.

how about giv them dawah lol :giggling: ;)

sorry not much of help there.

tc
all the best
:giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:
a kafir giving a muslim dawa??!!
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lolwatever
07-27-2006, 09:11 PM
lol joking.. well actually believe it or not, it's a commendable thing.. a non Muslim who gives dawah is actually encouraged to do so in Islam.. any act that brings them closer to Islam is actually encouraged.

just like the way for example.. if a jew decides to 'enhance' his religion by acceptin Jesus as a messenger, he is encouraged to do that even though he reamins a non Muslim but he's still better off somewhat in this life and hereafter.

anyways yeh hehe... sounds funny tho lol ;)

take care!
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
07-27-2006, 09:20 PM
:sl:
On greeting non-muslims:
http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=22

Let's try to keep this on-topic though, please.

:w:
Reply

Malaikah
08-20-2006, 07:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
It's not to the advantage of the muslim to kill all the non praying apostates. Other than being sad it really wouldn't bother non muslims if all the muslim apostates were killed. The non muslims would bounce back and forget about it after a while. But don't you hate to think what death to all apostates would do to the ummah? Think how long it would take to build the numbers back up?
what? first of all, no one is killing anyone- there is no islamic state, so that isnt going to happen. secondly, the person gets warnings, even if they just pretend to pray, and we even know they are just pretending so they dont get punished, they arent killed.
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Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 08:00 AM
why the heck are numbers soo important to serching

Yall need to understand something

Allahs laws are the haqq

no other laws are going to be acceptable on the day of judgment i dont care what anybody has to say

MUSLIMS NEED TO STOP being PASSIVE and have the GUTS to TELL IT LIKE IT iS

Islam is the submission to ALLAH how can you not submit to ALLAH and still call yourself muslim

Wallahi if i were the only one to say im muslim it wouldnt make a difference in the world

if there were only two of us it wouldnt change a thing

Allah dose not need us we need him

I dont care if all the "muslims" in america agree to this and that and their views are different

their views mean absolutley nothing Allahs veiws are what matter

Im disgusted with alot of the muslims here on this forum they make me sick to my stomach

Im muslim for Allah and he allone do i prostrate to

forget what the rest have to say

sinners and the evil doers will pay for their transgression

And he the one worthy of glorification knows best

Maa salaama
Reply

lolwatever
08-20-2006, 08:03 AM
^^ well said sis :thumbs_up

The prophet said: "Islam began strange and shall return to be strange, so glad tidings to the strangers"..

searchingsoul ur welcome to contribute....

salam
Reply

searchingsoul
08-20-2006, 08:29 AM
People with your views are an injustice to all other muslims and mankind. You are sick. I truly support the entire annihilation of all people with your mentality. The deaths of many innocent muslims (my family included) would be justifiable in order to rid the world of people with your mentality. You are threat to mankind, and you have perverted the word of God to serve your egocentric agendas.

I find it amazing that many of you don't understand why the rest of society treats you as garbage. It is because YOU have earned the title of "garbage". Your blood is cheap because YOU have made it cheap.

Face the facts, the majority of your Ummah despises you as much as non-muslims. Don't kid yourselves in believing that you will be protected by other muslims. They don't give a **** about people like you. You want proof? The Palestinians are proof.

Since you're unwilling to conduct yourselves as humane individuals within the 21st century, I'm afraid that you will have to accept that your futures are grim.

You can defend yourselves with your insane dogma but your words fall upon deaf ears. Most Muslims and non-muslims would rather burn in hell than frolick in jannah with you. You guys are a world wide joke.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 08:37 AM
authu billah

listen

you sound too bitter to hurt me

what you know as islam is not islam at all

you know islam to be the appolegetic weak gutless pathetic "muslims" who claim to be islam

i dont care what the rest of the muslims think about me

i dont care what you think aboutme

my blood isint cheap and soon enough you will realize that

im not garbage and soon enough you will realize that

the only garbage wallahi wallahi is on you the ignorant the unblessed


wallahi i dont live for other people nor do i care a twit what society has to say

Islam is the haqq
islam is the truth

islam is the onlY ACCEPTABLE WAY
believe it or not practice it or not
its not my problem
Garbage is who dont know islam
cheap blood

rid the world of us

WALLAHI I SWEAR ON MY LIFE THAT ISLAM ISNT GOING ANYWHERE EVER!!!!

you follow the crowd and practice because people practice i do what my heart tells me and practice because i feel im doing what god told me to do

preverted ???
please


the only perversion i see is bitter old women who have nothing better to do with their lives than to make insults and try to defend murderers

ALLAH IS NO FOOL AND YOUR NOT DOING ANYBODY A FAVOR NOR INSULTING ANYBODY BY BELIEVING IN 3 GODS or insulting islam

WE ARE THE HAQQ ISLAM IS TRUTH AND IT AINT GOIN NOWHERE LIKE IT OR NOT

I SWEAR ON MY LIFE THaat the fuFUTURE OF THE MUSLIMS IS A FRUITFUL ONE WALLAHI WA BILLAHI

so searching please get a life because you are a pathetic excuse for a human being

and i have no time for ignorance my job is to relay the messege like it is

and i feel sorry for you because so long as you continue to parter gods with ALLAH the reality is THAT YOUR FURTUR IS A GRIM ONE

peace
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 08:45 AM
I live for Allah

and those who despise me will answer to allah because i speak nothing but the haqq

and the prophet told us

glad tidings to the strangers

so make me strange and grant me the blessinngs of being a stranger ya rab

you kknow searching what i find funny is the fact that you think im to be offended by your statements

frankly im laughing and think its a joke

the joke is on you searching

I pray that you are guided to the truth of Islam to the Haqq

i pray that you stpp being a grouppie and learn that Islam is about submission


live your life for yourself and not for others and what others think of you

im sure an old fosil like you has learned that lesson by now


why cant you see that

islam is not about what the rest of the muslims think about me

they mean NOTHING TO ME

they are WORTH NOTHING

in this life and the hearafter

NOTHING

they can think all the things they want

ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM FOR BEFRIENDING AND SIDING WITH KUFFARS like YOU

IM NOT AFRAID TO MAKE my IDENTITY KNOWN

IAM A MUSLIM AND I WILL BE TILL I DIE AND I WILL DIE (by the will of god) AS A MUSLIM

stop being bitter am i hurtting you soo much with the truth that you have to insult me and muslim brothers and sisters

i pray for you and all of them to see the truth

YOU ARE A PATHETIC PATHETIC WASTE OF WRITTING SPACE
if all you can do is insult me and my kind
i dont even know why you are alowed to post on this forum you should be booted
Reply

lolwatever
08-20-2006, 08:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
People with your views are an injustice to all other muslims and mankind. You are sick. I truly support the entire annihilation of all people with your mentality. The deaths of many innocent muslims (my family included) would be justifiable in order to rid the world of people with your mentality. You are threat to mankind, and you have perverted the word of God to serve your egocentric agendas.
Putting aside all the emotional hype for a second, the question that needs to be asked is, how have we perverted the word of God? We're simply quoting directly from the sources :rollseyes

It's you who's short of evidence, not us.

I find it amazing that many of you don't understand why the rest of society treats you as garbage. It is because YOU have earned the title of "garbage". Your blood is cheap because YOU have made it cheap.
Well.. it's a constant in history for the people of truth to be labelled as garbage and 'cheap' and all that...

We thank Allah that we have the sanity to not judge truth by numbers, and to not judge truth based on desires... You know, searching soul... there's this beautiful hadith that the prophe told us:

“The nations were presented before me, and I saw a prophet with whom there was a small group, and a prophet with there was a single man or two men, and a prophet with nobody with him…( Reported by al-Bukharee [eng. Trans. Vol, p.434, no. 648] and Muslim [eng.Trans. vol. 1, p.141, no. 625])

And this contains a clear proof that the number of followers, whether large or small, is not a means of knowing whether the caller is upon the truth or falsehood. :)

So let not the flurry of titles that we are showered with be the determinant of whether we are correct or not.

Face the facts, the majority of your Ummah despises you as much as non-muslims. Don't kid yourselves in believing that you will be protected by other muslims. They don't give a **** about people like you. You want proof? The Palestinians are proof.
Really? The prophet told us about that before you did..

"A band of my 'Ummah shall stick to truth and will stay victorious, and will not be harmed by whoever betrays them until the Day of Judgment" (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

The thing is, are we going to please the majority for a few years in return for an infinite reward in the hereafter? Just to please people like you who talk with emotions instead of evidence?

Since you're unwilling to conduct yourselves as humane individuals within the 21st century, I'm afraid that you will have to accept that your futures are grim.
Back in Madinah the hypocrites said the exact same thing... "these guys are gonna get killed off and perish, they're nut cases, brainless, bag of emotions" so did the people say the same thing about Imam Ahmad for standing up against the entire regime who was trying to force him to give in to thier ideology...

But nowaday, no one really gives a hoot about the ruler in the tiem of Imam Ahmad (i bet very few people even know the ruler's name compared to the popularity of Ahmad himself)...

You can defend yourselves with your insane dogma but your words fall upon deaf ears. Most Muslims and non-muslims would rather burn in hell than frolick in jannah with you. You guys are a world wide joke.
We'll see if that's the case when we meet on the day of judgement InshaAllah.

The Day that their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire, they will say: "Woe to us! Would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!"

And they say: Our Lord! Lo! we obeyed our princes and great men, and they misled us from the Way.

Our Lord! Oh, give them double torment and curse them with a mighty curse.
take care all the best
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 08:51 AM
So I posted this in another thread, but think it will be beneficial here inshaAllah
13569
The Pillars of Islam

Question:
We hope that you can explain the pillars of Islam for us.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

Islam is based on five pillars which the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has explained for us, when he said: “Islam is built upon five [pillars]: the testimony that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah; establishing regular prayer (salaah); paying the zakaah; Hajj (pilgrimage) and fasting Ramadaan.” (Agreed upon; narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 8)

Islam is both belief and laws, in which Allaah and His Messenger have told us what is halaal and what is haraam, morals and good manners, acts of worship and how to interact with people, rights and duties, and scenes of the resurrection. When Allaah completed this religion, He chose it to be the way of life for all of mankind until the Hour begins:

“This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion

[al-Maa'idah 5:3 – interpretation of the meaning]

These are the pillars of Islam and the principles upon which it is based:

The first pillar: al-Shahaadatayn (the twin testimony of faith)

This means that a person believes that Allaah alone is the Lord, Sovereign and Controller, the Creator and Provider. He affirms all His most beautiful names and the sublime attributes that Allaah has affirmed for Himself or that His Prophet affirmed for Him. He believes that Allaah alone, and no one else, is the Only One Who is deserving of worship, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How can He have children when He has no wife? He created all things and He is the All-Knower of everything.

Such is Allaah, your Lord! Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Creator of all things. So worship Him (Alone), and He is the Wakeel (Trustee, Disposer of affairs or Guardian) over all things”[al-An’aam 6:101-102]

And he believes that Allaah sent His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and revealed to him the Qur’aan, and commanded him to convey this religion to all of mankind. He believes that loving Allaah and His Messenger and obeying them are duties which are obligatory upon all of mankind, and that love of Allaah can only be realized by following His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):

“Say (O Muhammad to mankind): ‘If you (really) love Allaah, then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur’aan and the Sunnah), Allaah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:31 – interpretation of the meaning]

The second pillar: salaah (prayer)

The Muslim believes that Allaah has enjoined upon every sane adult Muslim five prayers each day and night, which he does in a state of purity, standing before his Lord, every day in a state of purity and humility, thanking his Lord for His blessings, asking Him of His bounty, seeking His forgiveness for his sins, asking Him for Paradise and seeking refuge in Him from Hell.

The five obligatory prayers which are required day and night are Fajr (early morning, before dawn), Zuhr (mid-day, just after noon), ‘Asr (mid afternoon), Maghrib (just after sunset) and ‘Ishaa’ (at night, after dark has fallen). There are also Sunnah prayers such as Qiyaam al-Layl (prayer at night), Taraweeh prayers, two rak’ahs of Duha prayer, etc.

Prayer, whether it is fard or naafil, represents a sincere turning towards Allaah alone in all one's affairs. Allaah has commanded all the believers to guard strictly the observance of the prayers, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Guard strictly (five obligatory) As‑Salawaat (the prayers) especially the middle Salaah (i.e. the best prayer ‑ ‘Asr). And stand before Allaah with obedience [and do not speak to others during the Salaah (prayers)]”[al-Baqarah 2:238]

The five daily prayers are obligatory upon every Muslim man and woman, night and day:

“Verily, As‑Salaah (the prayer) is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours”[al-Nisaa’ 4:103 – interpretation of the meaning]

The one who abandons prayer has no share in Islam. Whoever neglects it deliberately is a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And remain always) turning in repentance to Him (only), and be afraid and dutiful to Him; and perform As‑Salaah (Iqaamat‑as‑Salaah) and be not of Al‑Mushrikoon (the polytheists, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah)[al-Room 30:31]

Islam is based on co-operation, brotherhood and love, and Allaah has prescribed coming together for these prayers and others, in order to attain these virtues. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Prayer in congregation is twenty-seven times better than prayer offered alone.” (Narrated by Muslim, no. 650)

Prayer helps the believer at times of hardship and calamity. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And seek help in patience and As-Salaah (the prayer) and truly, it is extremely heavy and hard except for Al-Khaashi‘oon [i.e. the true believers in Allaah — those who obey Allaah with full submission, fear much from His punishment, and believe in His Promise (Paradise) and in His Warnings (Hell)].[al-Baqarah 2:45]

The five daily prayers wipe out sins, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do you not think that if there was a river at the door of any one of you, and he were to bathe in it five times each day, would there by any dirt left on him?” They said, “No dirt would be left on him at all.” He said, “That is the likeness of the five daily prayers, by means of which Allaah erases sin.”

Prayer in the mosque is a means of entering Paradise. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever comes and goes to the mosque, Allaah will prepare for him a house in Paradise for each time he comes and goes.” (Narrated by Muslim, no. 669)

Prayer brings the slave and his Creator together. It was the delight of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whenever any matter grieved him, he would turn to prayer and converse with his Lord and call upon Him, seeking His forgiveness and asking Him of His bounty.

Prayer done with proper humility and fear of Allaah brings the Muslim closer to his Lord, and keeps him from doing evil, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Recite (O Muhammad) what has been revealed to you of the Book (the Qur’aan), and perform As‑Salaah (Iqaamat‑as‑Salaah). Verily, As‑Salaah (the prayer) prevents from Al‑Fahsha’ (i.e. great sins of every kind, unlawful sexual intercourse) and Al‑Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism, and every kind of evil wicked deed)”[al-‘Ankaboot 29:45]

The third pillar: zakaah (poor due, charity tax)

Just asAllaah has created people with different colours, attitudes and levels of knowledge, so too their deeds and provision vary. He has made some of them rich and some poor, to test the rich as to whether they show gratitude, and to test the poor as to whether they are patient. Because the believers are a brotherhood, and brotherhood is based on compassion, kindness, love and mercy, Allaah has enjoined upon the Muslims zakaah which is taken from the rich and given to the poor. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Take Sadaqah (alms) from their wealth in order to purify them and sanctify them with it, and invoke Allaah for them. Verily, your invocations are a source of security for them”[al-Tawbah 9:103]

Zakaah purifies and cleanses wealth, and purifies the soul from stinginess and miserliness. It strengthens the love between the rich and poor, takes away hatred, makes security prevail and brings happiness to the ummah happy.

Allaah has made the payment of zakaah obligatory upon everyone who owns the nisaab (minimum amount) for one year. The rate of zakaah on gold, silver, other metals and trade goods is one quarter of ten percent. On agricultural produce and fruits the amount is one-tenth if it is irrigated (by artificial means), and one-half of one-tenth if it is not irrigated (by artificial means, i.e., it is watered by rainfall or other natural means). Concerning an’aam animals (i.e., sheep, goats, cattle and camels) the details are explained in the books of fiqh… Whoever pays zakaah, Allaah expiates his sins thereby, and blesses his wealth, and stores up for him a great reward. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, and whatever of good (deeds that Allaah loves) you send forth for yourselves before you, you shall find it with Allaah. Certainly, Allaah is All-Seer of what you do”[al-Baqarah 2:110]

Withholding zakaah brings disasters and evils upon the ummah. Allaah has threatened those who withhold it with a painful torment on the Day of Resurrection. He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder (them) from the way of Allaah (i.e. Allaah’s religion of Islamic Monotheism). And those who hoard up gold and silver (Al‑Kanz: the money, the Zakaah of which has not been paid) and spend them not in the way of Allaah, announce unto them a painful torment.

On the Day when that (Al‑Kanz: money, gold and silver, the Zakaah of which has not been paid) will be heated in the fire of Hell and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, (and it will be said unto them ‘This is the treasure which you hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard’”

[al-Tawbah 9:34-35]

Concealing one’s zakaah is better than paying it openly in front of people, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“If you disclose your Sadaqaat (almsgiving), it is well; but if you conceal them and give them to the poor, that is better for you. (Allaah) will expiate you some of your sins. And Allaah is Well-Acquainted with what you do [al-Baqarah 2:271]

When a Muslim pays his zakaah, it is not permissible for him to give it to anyone except those whom Allaah mentions in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“As-Sadaqaat (here it means Zakaah) are only for the Fuqaraa’ (poor), and Al‑Masaakeen (the poor) and those employed to collect (the funds); and to attract the hearts of those who have been inclined (towards Islam); and to free the captives; and for those in debt; and for Allaah’s Cause (i.e. for Mujahidoon — those fighting in a holy battle), and for the wayfarer (a traveller who is cut off from everything); a duty imposed by Allaah. And Allaah is All-Knower, All-Wise”[al-Tawbah 9:60]

The fourth pillar: sawm (fasting) in Ramadaan

Fasting means abstaining from things which break the fast, such as food, drink and intercourse, from sunrise until sunset, with the intention of fasting.

The relationship of patience to faith is like that of the head to the body. Allaah has enjoined upon this ummah fasting for one month of the year, in order to draw closer to Allaah, to avoid that which Allaah has forbidden, to get used to being patient, to bring the nafs (self) under control, to compete in generosity and to demonstrate co-operation and mutual compassion. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Observing As-Sawm (the fasting) is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)”[al-Baqarah 2:183]

The month of Ramadaan is a great month, in which Allaah revealed the Qur’aan. The reward for good deeds, acts of charity and acts of worship are multiplied in this month. In it is Laylat al-Qadr, which is better than a thousand months. The gates of heaven are opened and the gates of Hell are shut, and the shayaateen (devils) are tied up.

Allaah has made fasting the month of Ramadaan obligatory upon every sane, adult Muslim, male and female alike, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The month of Ramadaan in which was revealed the Qur’aan, a guidance for mankind and clear proofs for the guidance and the criterion (between right and wrong). So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadaan i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Sawm (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Sawm (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allaah intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allaah [i.e. to say Takbeer (Allaahu Akbar: Allaah is the Most Great)] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him” [al-Baqarah 2:185]

There is a great reward with Allaah for fasting. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every action of the son of Adam is multiplied, each good deed receiving a tenfold to seven hundredfold reward. Allaah said, ‘Except for fasting, for it is done for Me and I will give a reward for it, for he gives up his desire and food for My sake.’” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Siyaam)

The fifth pillar: Hajj (pilgrimage)

Allaah has given the Muslims a Qiblah (direction of prayer) which they face when they pray (salaah) and offer supplications (du’aa’), wherever they may be. This qiblah is the Ancient House (the Ka’bah) in Makkah al-Mukarramah:

“so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction [al-Baqarah 2:144 – interpretation of the meaning]

Because the Muslims scattered all over the world, and Islam calls people to be united and get to know one another, just as it calls them to co-operate in righteousness and piety, to recommend one another to the truth, to call people to Allaah and to venerate the rituals of Allaah – hence Allaah has made it obligatory for every sane, adult Muslim who has the means, to visit His Ancient House, to circumambulate it and to perform all the rituals of Hajj as explained by Allaah and His Messenger. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) to the House (Ka‘bah) is a duty that mankind owes to Allaah, those who can afford the expenses (for one’s conveyance, provision and residence); and whoever disbelieves [i.e. denies Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah), then he is a disbeliever of Allaah], then Allaah stands not in need of any of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)” [Aal Imraan 3:97]

Hajj is an occasion on which the unity of the Muslims, their strength and pride, are made manifest. For the Lord is One, the Book is one, the Messenger is one, the ummah is one, their worship is one and their clothing is one.

Hajj has its own etiquette and conditions which the Muslims must observe, such as restraining their tongues, hearing and sight from all that Allaah has forbidden, being sincere in their intentions, using money from good sources (for Hajj), fostering the best attitude, and avoiding everything that could invalidate the Hajj, such as sexual relations, sin or arguing unjustly, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The Hajj (pilgrimage) is (in) the well-known (lunar year) months (i.e. the 10th month, the 11th month and the first ten days of the 12th month of the Islamic calendar, i.e. two months and ten days). So whosoever intends to perform Hajj therein (by assuming Ihraam), then he should not have sexual relations (with his wife), nor commit sin, nor dispute unjustly during the Hajj. And whatever good you do, (be sure) Allaah knows it. And take a provision (with you) for the journey, but the best provision is At-Taqwa (piety, righteousness). So fear Me, O men of understanding!”[al-Baqarah 3:197]

If the Muslim does Hajj correctly, in the manner prescribed and sincerely for the sake of Allaah, it will be an expiation for his sins. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever does Hajj for the sake of Allaah, and does not have sexual relations or commit sins, will come back like the day his mother bore him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 15210)



From Usool al-Deen al-Islami, by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem al-Tuawyjri
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 08:51 AM
Since you're unwilling to conduct yourselves as humane individuals within the 21st century, I'm afraid that you will have to accept that your futures are grim.


who are you to call us inhumane

who are you

who are you

you are nobody and worth nothing

palestinians are dying for the sake of allah and they will meet their lord

as will you

what will you say to allah when he asks you about what you did with your life

ohh allah i worshiped a man

listen to me searching

the facts are that you have no buisness making comments about ridding people because really we will forever be around we will never be gone we will live and islam will be the religion the rest of the world follows i only wish you live to see it

i only wish to see your disgusting face on that day so i can laugh

even harder than i am laughing now
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 08:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Since you're unwilling to conduct yourselves as humane individuals within the 21st century, I'm afraid that you will have to accept that your futures are grim.


who are you to call us inhumane

who are you

who are you

you are nobody and worth nothing

palestinians are dying for the sake of allah and they will meet their lord

as will you

what will you say to allah when he asks you about what you did with your life

ohh allah i worshiped a man

listen to me searching

the facts are that you have no buisness making comments about ridding people because really we will forever be around we will never be gone we will live and islam will be the religion the rest of the world follows i only wish you live to see it

i only wish your disgusting face on that day so i can laugh

even harder than i am laughing now
Let's try and be respectful please...
Reply

lolwatever
08-20-2006, 08:55 AM
lool sis quraxabadan..

Maybe we shouldn't be too hard on searchignsoul.. after all she's voicing what she thinks of it, we should be above her and not give her the same attitude she's giving us inshalah..

perhaps Allah may guide her one day, you never know.. and even if she doesn't, atleast on judgemetn day she cant use our insults as an excuse for not believing.

tc salamz :)
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 08:57 AM
lolwhatever


thank you

thank you

dont you think her stupidity needs to get banned

wallahi watch me get a warning for what i say to her

and watch the mods of this ISLAMIC forum smile and nod at the filth she says about muslims

may allah show you the truth

AMEEN
Reply

lolwatever
08-20-2006, 08:58 AM
hehe ameen..
salams
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lolwatever
lool sis quraxabadan..

Maybe we shouldn't be too hard on searchignsoul.. after all she's voicing what she thinks of it, we should be above her and not give her the same attitude she's giving us inshalah..

perhaps Allah may guide her one day, you never know.. and even if she doesn't, atleast on judgemetn day she cant use our insults as an excuse for not believing.

tc salamz :)

your right

your rright lolwhatever your right brother

i just get soo mad when i hear conservative ignorant idiotic middleclass mindless american fools

insult the followers of Haqq if she only knew what was comming to her

if she only knew the truth

if she only knew that allah does not need her and that she desperatly needs him

if she only knew that she will stand before her creator allah

if she only knew that she transgresses againts herself and nobody else

if she only knew that all the dying and innocent deaths are for the sake of allah and that they will answer to him on the day of judgment the same way she will

what she wants is for muslims to be just like her cant tell the difference between muslims and kuffars (like the ones she surrounds herself with) some fool made her believe that this is ISLAM

and she becomes INTIMIDATED WHEN SHE SEES THE MUSLIMS WHO ADHERE TO ISLAM SPEAK THE TRUTH

she calls it forigne she calls it wrong

may ALLAH MAKE ME ONE OF THE FORIGNERS ONE OF THE STRANGERS AMMEEN

and she speaks out of ignorance she speaks in terms of numbers

nowonder shes lost believing in something other than the truth

ISLAM IS THE ONLY TRUTH ALLAH IS ONE not three ONE he is Al KARIM he is the ruler he is the KING

and she will answer to him she knows not that she insults nobody but herself she knows not that she will suffer a great torment for her transgression against herself and nobody elsse

MAY ALLAH GRANT HER GUIDANCE AND SHOW HER TRUTH

AMEEN

yes your right brother you are right
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
your right

your rright lolwhatever your right brother

i just get soo mad when i hear conservative ignorant idiotic middleclass mindless american fools

insult the followers of Haqq if she only knew what was comming to her

if she only knew the truth

if she only knew that allah does not need her and that she desperatly needs him

if she only knew that she will stand before her creator allah

if she only knew that she transgresses againts herself and nobody else

if she only knew that all the dying and innocent deaths are for the sake of allah and that they will answer to him on the day of judgment the same way she will

what she wants is for muslims to be just like her cant tell the difference between muslims and kuffars (like the ones she surrounds herself with) some fool made her believe that this is ISLAM

and she becomes INTIMIDATED WHEN SHE SEES THE MUSLIMS WHO ADHERE TO ISLAM SPEAK THE TRUTH

she calls it forigne she calls it wrong

may ALLAH MAKE ME ONE OF THE FORIGNERS ONE OF THE STRANGERS AMMEEN

and she speaks out of ignorance she speaks in terms of numbers

nowonder shes lost believing in something other than the truth

ISLAM IS THE ONLY TRUTH ALLAH IS ONE not three ONE he is Al KARIM he is the ruler he is the KING

and she will answer to him she knows not that she insults nobody but herself she knows not that she will suffer a great torment for her transgression against herself and nobody elsse

MAY ALLAH GRANT HER GUIDANCE AND SHOW HER TRUTH

AMEEN

yes your right brother you are right
[MAD]Just because you 2 have different views, doesn't mean either of you should be so rude and disrespectful to one another. As Muslims, we should be the ones setting the good example...do you really believe what you are saying portrays that? I don't[/MAD]
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:10 AM
and on top of all of that she lacks in evidence big time



she says the proof is palistine

its the same thing as me saying

the proof of the sky being blue is in the water ???

does that make any sence

world wide joke

me me

im a world wiide joke

im flatterd
may allah make me a stranger

AMEEN
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by c'est*moi
[MAD]Just because you 2 have different views, doesn't mean either of you should be so rude and disrespectful to one another. As Muslims, we should be the ones setting the good example...do you really believe what you are saying portrays that? I don't[/MAD]
yes i do

name one thing i said that isint islam

that isint truth

(ASIDE FROM when my angry ranting about her beeing foolish)
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:12 AM
Please re-read what I wrote. I never said what you said was against Islam, but rather how you are acting.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:13 AM
good example????


good example for whome?????


please sister

i say nothing that isint true

she can say whatever she likes

SHE IS A HYPORITE

MUNAFIQ
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
good example????


good example for whome?????


please sister

i say nothing that isint true

she can say whatever she likes

SHE IS A HYPORITE

MUNAFIQ
I really suggest you really read what I wrote...again I never said anything about you saying something un-Islamic. As Muslims, we should be the bigger person. Currently, you are at the same level bickering, and even back-biting. Is that the picture of a Muslim you would like to portray. I am not trying to offend you, but rather get you to
realize how you are acting.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:38 AM
listen sister


okay

1stly im not backbiting she can see what i wrote and i wrote it for her to see

secondly

i read what you wrote and understood what you said

i probably shouldnt get soo roudy fact is her oppinion is meaningless to me

but when people who are the likes of her insult the truth and try to call it falsehood and insult the True MUSLIMS who are on the sunnah
and who are speaking the haqq i cant help but get rowdy

even tho i know she is not worth it

i cant help it sometimes and i m not alwayse going to be there to please everybody

i only answer to allah
and im not trying to portray any messege which is not haqq

im not alwayse going to be the bigger person unfortunately may allah help me with that
for now i know i will speak up when some fool starts talking trash

like the trash that they are

peace
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
im not alwayse going to be the bigger person unfortunately may allah help me with that
for now i know i will speak up when some fool starts talking trash

like the trash that they are


peace
I find it interesting that you have called SearchingSoul a hypocrite, while you say you want to work on something, then do it right after saying you need to work on it.
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:43 AM
Quruxbadaan, may I ask around what age you are?
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:46 AM
that makes me a hypocrite?????


that i admit that i have faults makes me a hypocrite

sister shall i post the definition of a hypocrite for you
????

dont concern yourself with my age know that im old enough and accountable for my own actions
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:49 AM
and sister

please i was not adressing you to begin with

i was adressing soul searching

you dont seem to like my attitude is not my concern

perhaps you should take a minute and pick up a dictionary

for right now get off my back


im sick of this thread

it needs to be trashed

peace
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
that makes me a hypocrite?????


that i admit that i have faults makes me a hypocrite

sister shall i post the definition of a hypocrite for you
????

dont concern yourself with my age know that im old enough and accountable for my own actions
What makes it hypocritical is the fact that you say one thing and do another. I know the definition well, but here it is for all:
hyp·o·crite n
somebody who gives a false appearance of having admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings

Also, I may be wrong, but I have a feeling you are still a younger teen.
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
and sister

please i was not adressing you to begin with

i was adressing soul searching

you dont seem to like my attitude is not my concern

perhaps you should take a minute and pick up a dictionary

for right now get off my back


im sick of this thread

it needs to be trashed

peace
Sister,
I am meaning no harm to you, rather trying to help. Please don't take such offense to my posts because they were only intended to help not harm.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:52 AM
okay thanks for the definition

now what is the false appearance if anything i admited to having a fault

so that basically tells me that either YOU are in your teens and dont know what your talking about or that you just felt like throwing around a big word to feel good about yourself

because the definition and your accusation dont match up sister sorry try again


p.s no im beyond my teen years and in the prime of my life ALhUMDULILLAH

dont worry about my age sister concern yourself with trying to make sense
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
okay thanks for the definition

now what is the false appearance if anything i admited to having a fault

so that basically tells me that either YOU are in your teens and dont know what your talking about or that you just felt like throwing around a big word to feel good about yourself

because the definition and your accusation dont match up sister sorry try again


p.s no im beyond my teen years and in the prime of my life ALhUMDULILLAH

dont worry about my age sister concern yourself with trying to make sense
You gave the false appearance that you wanted to work on it, but instead did not.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by c'est*moi
Sister,
I am meaning no harm to you, rather trying to help. Please don't take such offense to my posts because they were only intended to help not harm.

your really not helping your irritating

and the fact is that your insulting me

maybe you should take a closer look at the deffinition you posted

because it fits perfectly with what your doint

in one breath insinuatiing that im a child and in the next breath portraying a false immage that you are only trying to help
Reply

Malaikah
08-20-2006, 09:56 AM
:sl:

Please dont trash my thread. Lets stay on topic and not let our emotions get the better of us. :)
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by c'est*moi
You gave the false appearance that you wanted to work on it, but instead did not.

sister are you having trouble reading what i wrote

perhaps you should read it again

i said

may allah help me with it

that doesnt mean i dont have the problem of being impatient and being the bigger person

sometimes i will and sometimes i wont im only human

sister please this is nonsence

you need to stop insinuating that im a hypocrite and take a look at your own posts for one minute
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:58 AM
now im starting to wonder about your age?????

perhaps im mingling with a minor ??
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 09:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
your really not helping your irritating

and the fact is that your insulting me

maybe you should take a closer look at the deffinition you posted

because it fits perfectly with what your doint

in one breath insinuatiing that im a child and in the next breath portraying a false immage that you are only trying to help
Alhumdulillah Allah swt knows my intentions. I would appreciate if you didn't attribute false intentions, even though I stated my true intentions. Again, like I aforementioned, I am not trying to insult, but make a suggestion. I was not insinuating you were a teen, but rather asking out of curiosity. I would not like to say anything further because I feel you have blown this out of proportion. May Allah swt help us all become better Muslims. Ameen
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:58 AM
Big Words Dont Make U Cool Sister

say only what you understand
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 09:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HusamLah
30's?:rollseyes

thats when women are in there prime medically speaking

no im much younger than 30

much much much younger

by my book my age is when women are in their prime

alot of women are flabby and wrinkly and old looking by the time they hit their mid late thirties


im in my early 20s ALHUMDULILLAH ALHUMDULILLAH for that that i have my youth ALHUMDULILLAH he is worthy of praise
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 10:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Big Words Dont Make U Cool Sister

say only what you understand
Insults will get you nowhere, no offense. Also, I understand fully every word I have written. Also, I am not a teen.
Reply

mlsh27
08-20-2006, 10:02 AM
Anyways, back on to the topic of non-practicing Muslims...may Allah forgive me for going off topic.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-20-2006, 10:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by c'est*moi
Alhumdulillah Allah swt knows my intentions. I would appreciate if you didn't attribute false intentions, even though I stated my true intentions. Again, like I aforementioned, I am not trying to insult, but make a suggestion. I was not insinuating you were a teen, but rather asking out of curiosity. I would not like to say anything further because I feel you have blown this out of proportion. May Allah swt help us all become better Muslims. Ameen

AMEEN
Reply

nennar
08-20-2006, 10:05 AM
searhingsoul i need to ask you something!

do you live in a arabcountry right now?????? are you married to an arab???? i find it strange that you live in an arab country and still you talk bad about the muslim??????????????????????????????????????
Reply

Malaikah
08-20-2006, 10:05 AM
alhamdulilah, fued over.:)

now back on topic. The previous posts have shown rather clearly that those who do not pray and do not give zakat are considered, without doubt, based on authentic evidence, to be apostates.
Reply

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