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View Full Version : Lebanon Reels Under Fresh Strikes, 19 Killed



sonz
07-17-2006, 03:10 PM
BEIRUT — Lebanon shook under a new wave of killer Israeli strikes on Monday, July 17, and overnight, killing more Lebanese civilians with no sign of a let-up in the conflict that erupted five days ago.

In the deadliest raid, at least 19 Lebanese, including army soldiers, were killed and 56 others wounded in a pre-dawn Israeli strike on a military office topped by a radio transmitter in the southern port city of Tyre, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).

Six civilians, three of them children, were killed late Sunday when Israeli jets targeted the southern Lebanese border village of Aitarun.

Beirut's international airport, already shut to traffic, was hit again late Sunday by Israeli warplanes which fired 10 missiles on a runway and set the night sky ablaze.

The disabled airport is one of many problems facing residents and foreign nationals seeking to flee Lebanon, with the increasingly dangerous land route to Syria the only available exit for many.

Governments worldwide were also scrambling Monday to evacuate their nationals on the sixth day of the devastating blitz of Israeli air strikes.

Monday's raids brought to at least 167 the number killed in Lebanon over six days, Israel's fiercest offensive on its northern neighbor since it launched a full-scale invasion in 1982.

The onslaught has left Lebanon virtually cut off from the outside world and much of its infrastructure in tatters, with jets targeting roads, bridges and power stations.

Lebanese Finance Minister Jihad Azur said Sunday that massive damage inflicted by Israeli military strikes on his country had already cost its fragile economy more than half a billion dollars.

Prime Minister Fuad Siniora has declared Lebanon a "disaster zone" and appealed for urgent international help.

Reluctance

Solana, left, during his talks with Siniora.

Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi Aridi said Sunday that Israel showed no willingness to ease mounting tensions.

He said Lebanon had been informed by Italy that Israel had set two conditions — the release of the two soldiers taken prisoners and the withdrawal of the resistance movement from its stronghold in southern Lebanon.

Vijay Nambiar, special political adviser for the UN secretary general, called for a ceasefire following talks with Siniora.

He also called for "the release of the captured as part of a solution to this conflict," in a reference to Hizbullah's operation which took prisoner two Israeli soldiers.

Nambiar called for "the protection of civilians and civilian infrastructure which must be protected."

The five-member mission, which arrived in Beirut earlier Sunday, also includes UN Middle East envoy Terje Roed-Larsen.

In the highest-profile visit since the crisis began last week, EU foreign policy and security chief Javier Solana arrived in Beirut Sunday for talks with the Lebanese premier.

A draft statement, to be discussed by EU foreign ministers meeting in Brussels Monday, will urge all parties to work to end escalating Middle East violence but stop short of demanding an immediate ceasefire, according to Reuters.

The text appeals to Hizbullah to halt attacks on Israeli cities and Israel to avoid a "disproportionate" reaction.

"A de-escalation of the current situation is imperative ... The (EU) Council urges all parties concerned to create the conditions for a sustainable cessation of violence," said the statement.

French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin will also travel to Beirut on Monday to meet his counterpart Siniora as a sign of "solidarity and support of the French people in their trial, the French government said.

France, which has long ties with its former colony Lebanon and some 17,000 citizens resident in the country, has criticized the Israeli attacks as a "disproportionate" response to the Hizbullah's operation.

http://islamonline.net/English/News/2006-07/17/01.shtml
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 03:29 PM
This is retaliation from all the missles hitting Haifa. No sympathy for Hebollah. You play with the big boys you tend to get hurt.
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Allah-creation
07-17-2006, 03:32 PM
Mod Edit: Racist remarks will not be permitted since racism doesn't hold a place in Islam

-Muezzin
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Nawal89
07-17-2006, 03:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
This is retaliation from all the missles hitting Haifa. No sympathy for Hebollah. You play with the big boys you tend to get hurt.
this is how you justify killings of over a hundred innocent people who had nothing to do with it?. wow you sure are a wonderful person.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 03:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nawal89
this is how you justify killings of over a hundred innocent people who had nothing to do with it?. wow you sure are a wonderful person.
Thank you I try. Now justify over 1000 rockets dating back to Feburary of this year hitting Israel killing God knows how many civilians.
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Nawal89
07-17-2006, 03:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Thank you I try. Now justify over 1000 rockets dating back to Feburary of this year hitting Israel killing God knows how many civilians.
are you saying that these people deserve it? For those other people that were killed? That their killing is justified because of these other people's deaths? Allahul Musta3aan.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 03:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nawal89
are you saying that these people deserve it? For those other people that were killed? That their killing is justified because of these other people's deaths? Allahul Musta3aan.
Is an Arab like more important than a Jewish one? Before the rocket attacks and the kidnapping of the soldiers what involvement has Israel had with Lebanon in the past 10 years? Are you gonna condemn Allah-Creation's comments?
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Nawal89
07-17-2006, 04:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Is an Arab like more important than a Jewish one? Before the rocket attacks and the kidnapping of the soldiers what involvement has Israel had with Lebanon in the past 10 years? Are you gonna condemn Allah-Creation's comments?
All life is precious. It's just sick to say that just because these people died other people deserve to die too. The people that were killed wernt involved. It should stay that way.

edit: and i disagree with Allahs-creations comment. he shouldnt have said that. Sounds like he has issues :X
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Sis786
07-17-2006, 04:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Wow is the mods gonna allow this blatant showing of racism? Isn't there something in the Quran about protecting "The People of the Book" therefore making his comments blasphemy?
You right there please stop the racism against the jews as not all are the same, we Muslims of all people shoudnt judge a nation religion by the acts of few god knows how many times it happens to us and we dotn like it!
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 04:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nawal89
All life is precious. It's just sick to say that just because these people died other people deserve to die too. The people that were killed wernt involved. It should stay that way.

edit: and i disagree with Allahs-creations comment. he shouldnt have said that. Sounds like he has issues :X
Well the answer is easy. Return the soldiers and stop the missle barrage and the Israeli offensive ends.
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Nawal89
07-17-2006, 04:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Well the answer is easy. Return the soldiers and stop the missle barrage and the Israeli offensive ends.
dont you get the point? those DOZENS of people didnt have to die just because of those TWO soldiers. Those soldiers arent even DEAD yet. Is that how you operate? Someone smashes a ball into your window and you go and bulldoze thier house? Gosh you need help.
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amirah_87
07-17-2006, 04:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nawal89
dont you get the point? those DOZENS of people didnt have to die just because of those TWO soldiers. Those soldiers arent even DEAD yet. Is that how you operate? Someone smashes a ball into your window and you go and bulldoze thier house? Gosh you need help.

ass salaamu alaykum

i agree with you Sis nawaal!!...that ain't really necessary!...:?

Subhaanallah...:heated:
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Sis786
07-17-2006, 04:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Kinda hard to envy someone who produce nothing but pestilence and oppression. As for Jews killing prophets, the Jews didn't kill Isa (Jesus), he allowed himself to be crucified. He even said himself that he
could have called down hundreds of Angels to protect him.
Muslims dont believe that Jesus AS was crucified anyway so i dont know what the Bros post is about...:rollseyes And Hitler wasnt a man that should be seen as a hero he was far from it!
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Allah-creation
07-17-2006, 04:32 PM
only jewish got this much of a sick mind to kill sooooo many people for two captured jewsih. were is the justice you bloody animals!
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 04:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nawal89
dont you get the point? those DOZENS of people didnt have to die just because of those TWO soldiers. Those soldiers arent even DEAD yet. Is that how you operate? Someone smashes a ball into your window and you go and bulldoze thier house? Gosh you need help.
over 1000 missiles is a little more than a broken window.
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j4763
07-17-2006, 04:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah-creation
only jewish got this much of a sick mind to kill sooooo many people for two captured jewsih. were is the justice you bloody animals!
And would it be justifiable for me to say only Muslims would kill innocent civilians in suicide bombs? I think not! Sort it out.
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Nawal89
07-17-2006, 04:35 PM
over 1000 missiles is a little more than a broken window.
we're not talking about the past. we're talking about now. about this even that just recently happened.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 04:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Allah-creation
only jewish got this much of a sick mind to kill sooooo many people for two captured jewsih. were is the justice you bloody animals!
There once was a war in Ireland between 2 towns where over 1000 people were killed over a water pail. Anything can happen.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 04:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nawal89
we're not talking about the past. we're talking about now. about this even that just recently happened.
Last week is so far in the past we can't talk about it?
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Nawal89
07-17-2006, 04:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Last week is so far in the past we can't talk about it?
did those 1000 missiles have anything to do with lebanon? or with those people living in lebanon? i dont think so.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 04:44 PM
Since they came from Lebanon, I would say yes.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 04:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nawal89
did those 1000 missiles have anything to do with lebanon? or with those people living in lebanon? i dont think so.
No but about 40 of them in the past week did
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sameer
07-17-2006, 04:45 PM
so u saying that thousands of missles were fired into israel and they did nutten about it....but 2 soldiers were kidnapped (not killed) and they wage war? hmmm dosent make sense to me....

I also noticed ure name is Geranimo? isnt that a name of an american indian? where are the american indians now? didnt the europeans invade their land and killed them and the few remaining were place into Zoo? err i mean reserves?
Isnt that what Israel is about? extending and forming the boarders of israel to occupy and control jerusalem and palestine? and killing the muslims? or putting them in "reserves" ?
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 04:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
so u saying that thousands of missles were fired into israel and they did nutten about it....but 2 soldiers were kidnapped (not killed) and they wage war? hmmm dosent make sense to me....

I also noticed ure name is Geranimo? isnt that a name of an american indian? where are the american indians now? didnt the europeans invade their land and killed them and the few remaining were place into Zoo? err i mean reserves?
Isnt that what Israel is about? extending and forming the boarders of israel to occupy and control jerusalem and palestine? and killing the muslims? or putting them in "reserves" ?
Funny I don't live on a reserve but thanks for playing. I'm sorry but this is all the time we have for our favorite gameshow "Name That Stereotype!". By the way read about some of the raids Native Americans made against the pale skins during the French Indian War. We weren't exactly peace loving.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 04:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Funny I don't live on a reserve but thanks for playing. I'm sorry but this is all the time we have for our favorite gameshow "Name That Stereotype!". By the way read about some of the raids Native Americans made against the pale skins during the French Indian War. We weren't exactly peace loving.
Geronimo, you're actually Native American? Small World, Kiowa Tribe of Oklahoma here.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 04:54 PM
who would be peace loving to being invaded? and it seems u are justifing what they did to u?
BTW i didnt know u were actually native american
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 04:56 PM
The French and Indian War wasn't about being invaded, it was about picking a side the Ottawa and Huron thought would give them more in return. As a rule, the French were more fair in their interaction with the Native tribes.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 04:58 PM
^ i see
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:01 PM
so the europeans didnot wipe out the native americans?
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
who would be peace loving to being invaded? and it seems u are justifing what they did to u?
BTW i didnt know u were actually native american
I sure am. Part of the Shawno tribe and I'm not justifying what was done to my people. I'm just saying everything is not black and white. There are rarely any right side to any conflict. By the way it wasn't or land. At the time we had no belief in land ownership that's why when we made deals we thought we were beating out the white man because no one can own the land.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:01 PM
A large majority of the Native American tribes were a culture built around warfare, and they were very good at it. Of course the Native tribes knew they were being invaded, but you have to keep in mind that Natives didn't consider themselves one people, they were hundreds of different peoples who spoke different languages. Hard to create a unified front against invasion when you don't trust your "friends" either.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
so the europeans didnot wipe out the native americans?
Not at all. A lot of died due to the fact we didn't have immunities to the diseases they brought. Smallpox and Polio being 2 big ones.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
A large majority of the Native American tribes were a culture built around warfare, and they were very good at it. Of course the Native tribes knew they were being invaded, but you have to keep in mind that Natives didn't consider themselves one people, they were hundreds of different peoples who spoke different languages. Hard to create a unified front against invasion when you don't trust your "friends" either.
This very true.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
I sure am. Part of the Shawno tribe and I'm not justifying what was done to my people. I'm just saying everything is not black and white. There are rarely any right side to any conflict. By the way it wasn't or land. At the time we had no belief in land ownership that's why when we made deals we thought we were beating out the white man because no one can own the land.
Shawno, can't say that I've heard of you guys. Are you Canadian or by the Canadian border?
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Shawno, can't say that I've heard of you guys. Are you Canadian or by the Canadian border?
Northern Wisconsin. There's another tribe by us that's pretty big. The Menomenee tribe. I grew up far from tribal land though.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:08 PM
so how com eif there isnt any right side to anyconflick its seems that u are on the side of israel? what did all the muslims in the GAZA do to have their power station destroyed and by extension- their water supply destroyed and food destroyed?some of them kidnapped 1 soldier...but the million ppl living in the Gaza are straving and dont have freesh water to drink beacuse of it....also..with no power their can be no ICU.....
offcourse the world isnt really paying atteention to this because of smart tactics by israel to divert attention to lebanon. Its palestinian lands they want..lebanon is secondary.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Not at all. A lot of died due to the fact we didn't have immunities to the diseases they brought. Smallpox and Polio being 2 big ones.
i see....hmm
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
so how com eif there isnt any right side to anyconflick its seems that u are on the side of israel? what did all the muslims in the GAZA do to have their power station destroyed and by extension- their water supply destroyed and food destroyed?some of them kidnapped 1 soldier...but the million ppl living in the Gaza are straving and dont have freesh water to drink beacuse of it....also..with no power their can be no ICU.....
offcourse the world isnt really paying atteention to this because of smart tactics by israel to divert attention to lebanon. Its palestinian lands they want..lebanon is secondary.
Over 1000 missles since February is what they did to deserve the incursion. Kidnapping the soldier was the final straw.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:14 PM
Destroying the infrastructure in Gaza will probably lead to a humanitarian crisis, but I assume their intention was to pressure the Palestinian government, or what passes for their government, to release the hostage. The only other option would be to negotiate, which in reality only works to create more hostage taking because then those that kidnap know that it works. There is no good guy here, and nobody is "rooting" Israel, but reasonable people understand that this situation wasn't caused by Israel alone.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:14 PM
so u are really saying that the plight of ure people are hyped up and it wasnt that bad and its really negative propaganda? and the invasion and abuse/rape/burning etc...didnt really happen? and beacuse the fact that the europeans were technologiaclly advance they used it to their advantage to fight unfairly etc? or the fact that they traded contaminated sheets and items to ure ppl so they can infect them with the differnet diseases?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:16 PM
what passes for their government is a democratically elected group...i thought thats what US and other countries pretended to want? democracy? or does it only apply to the goverment that they want and not the ppl?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:18 PM
No, the suffering of our people was great, but the image of evil Europeans chasing down scared peaceful Natives and killing them in a mass genocide isn't reality. You have to keep in mind that these events span 500 years, and there were atrocities on both sides. Invasion is wrong, but it doesn't make any action of the other party justified.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
so u are really saying that the plight of ure people are hyped up and it wasnt that bad and its really negative propaganda? and the invasion and abuse/rape/burning etc...didnt really happen? and beacuse the fact that the europeans were technologiaclly advance they used it to their advantage to fight unfairly etc? or the fact that they traded contaminated sheets and items to ure ppl so they can infect them with the differnet diseases?
Where did I say that? The contaminated sheets is a myth. One US officer was caught doing that and was coutmarshalled. If I can find the link I'll show you were the US condemn the tactic. There were times in US history where the US government did some disgusting things (Trail of Tears) but on a whole I blame the Elder Chiefs for making stupid deals that got us in the prediciment we are in. Did you know that most of the US wasn't taken by force but instead given away in treaties? If anything the US warred with the British and Mexicans more than they warred with us.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
what passes for their government is a democratically elected group...i thought thats what US and other countries pretended to want? democracy? or does it only apply to the goverment that they want and not the ppl?
I was responding more to the ability of that government to control the actions of its people and to be a reliable negotiating party, which I don't believe the present governemnt it. They were elected, but that doesn't mean they are a reliable government, especially in crisis such as this.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:20 PM
i notice u said u assume.......that their other intention...
-dont assume..
cause that dont justify the slow deaths of over 1 million ppl. and they are holding thousands of palestinian ppl in prisons too including childeren and women..... and palestinian militants have 1 of their soliers?
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
i notice u said u assume.......that their other intention...
-dont assume..
cause that dont justify the slow deaths of over 1 million ppl. and they are holding thousands of palestinian ppl in prisons too including childeren and women..... and palestinian militants have 1 of their soliers?
Don't Pals use children and women for suicide runs? They just caught a 12 year old last year trying to cross with explosives. Jail is the price you pay.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Where did I say that? The contaminated sheets is a myth. One US officer was caught doing that and was coutmarshalled. If I can find the link I'll show you were the US condemn the tactic. There were times in US history where the US government did some disgusting things (Trail of Tears) but on a whole I blame the Elder Chiefs for making stupid deals that got us in the prediciment we are in. Did you know that most of the US wasn't taken by force but instead given away in treaties? If anything the US warred with the British and Mexicans more than they warred with us.
no i didnt know that...so infact they took advantage of ure peoples innocence or that lack of them to make proper trades?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Where did I say that? The contaminated sheets is a myth. One US officer was caught doing that and was coutmarshalled. If I can find the link I'll show you were the US condemn the tactic. There were times in US history where the US government did some disgusting things (Trail of Tears) but on a whole I blame the Elder Chiefs for making stupid deals that got us in the prediciment we are in. Did you know that most of the US wasn't taken by force but instead given away in treaties? If anything the US warred with the British and Mexicans more than they warred with us.
yes, the image of the noble "red man" fighting the American invaders is mostly due to the plains tribes, of which I am, and the major battles that took place there. And of course Geronimo...not the poster in the forum but the historical figure. Most of the land was given in treaties by people who had no idea of what they were doing, since the concept of a human being owning a peice of land was actually fairly funny to Natives of that time.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Don't Pals use children and women for suicide runs? They just caught a 12 year old last year trying to cross with explosives. Jail is the price you pay.
ok....so what about the general who orders the tanks and bulldozers to move into a territory and bomb and kill the ppl and then clear their land? not jail for him also?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
No, the suffering of our people was great, but the image of evil Europeans chasing down scared peaceful Natives and killing them in a mass genocide isn't reality. You have to keep in mind that these events span 500 years, and there were atrocities on both sides. Invasion is wrong, but it doesn't make any action of the other party justified.
ok so by ure logic ...the ppl being invaded to should just sit back and accept it?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
ok so by ure logic ...the ppl being invaded to should just sit back and accept it?
No, you don't sit back and accept it, but you also look for ways to live in peace. Most tribes knew that to fight the U.S. army large-scale would be a disaster for their people. I'm actually proud of the fact that my people cared more about their own people than endless war. Sometimes you have to face the reality of a situation and realize that war doesn't solve all problems, and some things cannot be changed.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
ok....so what about the general who orders the tanks and bulldozers to move into a territory and bomb and kill the ppl and then clear their land? not jail for him also?
If you can capture him and keep him go for it.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
yes, the image of the noble "red man" fighting the American invaders is mostly due to the plains tribes, of which I am, and the major battles that took place there. And of course Geronimo...not the poster in the forum but the historical figure. Most of the land was given in treaties by people who had no idea of what they were doing, since the concept of a human being owning a peice of land was actually fairly funny to Natives of that time.
hmmm it baffles me to think that u and geranimo are playing down the plight of ure people. U talk of them sayin that they gave away the land...and they had raids on the europeans so there fore they deserved what happened to them?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
hmmm it baffles me to think that u and geranimo are playing down the plight of ure people. U talk of them sayin that they gave away the land...and they had raids on the europeans so there fore they deserved what happened to them?
No, I just play down the belief that somehow Native Americans have ceased to exist, which is very far from the truth.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
No, you don't sit back and accept it, but you also look for ways to live in peace. Most tribes knew that to fight the U.S. army large-scale would be a disaster for their people. I'm actually proud of the fact that my people cared more about their own people than endless war. Sometimes you have to face the reality of a situation and realize that war doesn't solve all problems, and some things cannot be changed.
so u are proud of the ppl who negotiated and u are not proud of the bravery of men who died to protect their lands or village or family?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
If you can capture him and keep him go for it.
how come u dont come on a forun and rally for him to be jailed? u are being really unfair and biased.
u see my point and u totally refuse to accept it.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
so u are proud of the ppl who negotiated and u are not proud of the bravery of men who died to protect their lands or village or family?
I'm proud of those who fought, but I value human life over pride. To fight the U.S. Army you put your families in danger, since the tribes traveled and fought with their families only a mile away or more, this put them at great risk for death. Pride isn't worth the death of your children or your wife.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
hmmm it baffles me to think that u and geranimo are playing down the plight of ure people. U talk of them sayin that they gave away the land...and they had raids on the europeans so there fore they deserved what happened to them?
Not at all just trying to clear up some falsehoods.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
No, I just play down the belief that somehow Native Americans have ceased to exist, which is very far from the truth.

ok so according to you - u do exist and have not suffered and ure ppl deseved it.

Thanks...at least i heard it form a native american's mouth.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I'm proud of those who fought, but I value human life over pride. To fight the U.S. Army you put your families in danger, since the tribes traveled and fought with their families only a mile away or more, this put them at great risk for death. Pride isn't worth the death of your children or your wife.
it seems to me that u value humiliation and being donimated.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
ok so according to you - u do exist and have not suffered and ure ppl deseved it.

Thanks...at least i heard it form a native american's mouth.
We do exist, we have suffered, and in most instances we didn't deserve it. What I'm trying to say is that war is never black and white, and most of the U.S. was gained through treaty negotation and not endless bloodshed. A tribe of 500 cannot stand up against an endless flood of millions of Europeans sailing to America. You make a choice, live or die.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
We do exist, we have suffered, and in most instances we didn't deserve it. What I'm trying to say is that war is never black and white, and most of the U.S. was gained through treaty negotation and not endless bloodshed. A tribe of 500 cannot stand up against an endless flood of millions of Europeans sailing to America. You make a choice, live or die.
ok i understand ure point........lets say its the 20th century this was happening ...who side would u be on and what will u speka up against? would u speak out against the invader or the invadee?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
it seems to me that u value humiliation and being donimated.
I'm actually quite happy here in the United States. I don't feel dominated or humiliated. I'm sure my ancestors did feel humiliated and dominated, but what is the other option? Yes, they could have all rode to their death against the U.S. Army, how poetic that could have been...but of course then I wouldn't exist.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
ok i understand ure point........lets say its the 20th century this was happening ...who side would u be on and what will u speka up against? would u speak out against the invader or the invadee?
I assume you are referring to the creation of Israel? If I would have lived at the time of its creation and understood the dynamics of the problem, I would have voiced my objection to so many people being displaced. If I was a Palestinian I would have felt humiliated and dominated, of course. Now it is 2006, and the only option for peace is a two-state solution with Israel's neighbors aknowledging its right to exist, otherwise, endless war. That is a choice the Palestinians have to make.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I assume you are referring to the creation of Israel? If I would have lived at the time of its creation and understood the dynamics of the problem, I would have voiced my objection to so many people being displaced. If I was a Palestinian I would have felt humiliated and dominated, of course. Now it is 2006, and the only option for peace is a two-state solution with Israel's neighbors aknowledging its right to exist, otherwise, endless war. That is a choice the Palestinians have to make.
i was refering to if it was ure people being invaded today.

ANyhow....u said u would accept the state of israel....so how com eu didnt say u would support a state of palestine? u knwo israel dosent support this right?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
i was refering to if it was ure people being invaded today.

ANyhow....u said u would accept the state of israel....so how com eu didnt say u would support a state of palestine? u knwo israel dosent support this right?
I did say I would support a Palestinian state, that is what a two-state solution is all about.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:51 PM
also u know that everytime israel extend its boarders or invades and sets up settlements....they are displacing ppl.....and this is a continuious thing.....are u willing to voice ure opinion against it?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I did say I would support a Palestinian state, that is what a two-state solution is all about.
ok so i get it....u are all about forget acceptance and move on?
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
i was refering to if it was ure people being invaded today.

ANyhow....u said u would accept the state of israel....so how com eu didnt say u would support a state of palestine? u knwo israel dosent support this right?
You must have missed the part where he mentioned 2 states:rollseyes
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
ok so i get it....u are all about forget acceptance and move on?
What does carrying that hate gain you?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
You must have missed the part where he mentioned 2 states:rollseyes
actually i did :rollseyes
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sameer
07-17-2006, 05:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
What does carrying that hate gain you?
nice......i'm glad u said that...so y not israel forget an forgive hezbollah and hamas and move on? istead of killing ppl who probally dont support these two groups? how about releasing the captive palestinans and forget and accept and move on?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 05:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
also u know that everytime israel extend its boarders or invades and sets up settlements....they are displacing ppl.....and this is a continuious thing.....are u willing to voice ure opinion against it?
Yes, creating settlements in occupied land is displacing people. However, Israel has dismantled some of those settlements and had left Gaza before this recent outbreak of violence. I believe Ariel Sharon was willing to accept the two-state solution, but unfortunately Olmert doesn't carry as much weight as Sharon, figuratively and literally(joke), and the election of Hamas as the Palestinian government didn't sit well with Israel, since Hamas refuses the right of Israel to exist. The solution broke down, and now we have violence. I'm not calling Israel a victim, they have created this problem from the way the state was created and the people displaced because of it. However, I would assume the majority of Palestinians as well as the majority of Israelis want peace, and that should be what people work for, not how to kill each other.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 06:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
nice......i'm glad u said that...so y not israel forget an forgive hezbollah and hamas and move on? istead of killing ppl who probally dont support these two groups? how about releasing the captive palestinans and forget and accept and move on?
non sequitur. Not worth reply
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Isaac
07-17-2006, 06:01 PM
i think the cat may have caught his tongue. Worth not rplying or cant reply?;D
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Yes, creating settlements in occupied land is displacing people. However, Israel has dismantled some of those settlements and had left Gaza before this recent outbreak of violence. I believe Ariel Sharon was willing to accept the two-state solution, but unfortunately Olmert doesn't carry as much weight as Sharon, figuratively and literally(joke), and the election of Hamas as the Palestinian government didn't sit well with Israel, since Hamas refuses the right of Israel to exist. The solution broke down, and now we have violence. I'm not calling Israel a victim, they have created this problem from the way the state was created and the people displaced because of it. However, I would assume the majority of Palestinians as well as the majority of Israelis want peace, and that should be what people work for, not how to kill each other.
but yet it seems to me that somehow ure posts are slanted more on the israeli side.? Ariel sharon moved into a refugee settlement and literally bulldozed muslim tents with ppl in it he shuld be tried for war crimes...and actaully it has been raised...but offcourse the US dosent support it. How come they didnt pull out of all the settlements? only the ones that they werent really interested in...or maybe they knwo that they will be reoccupying them soon again.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
non sequitur. Not worth reply
y not? u change ure mind about forget accept and forgive?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
y not? u change ure mind about forget accept and forgive?
or this only applies to the side that is being taken advantage of?
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Isaac
07-17-2006, 06:07 PM
i think like you said only when it involves israel, usa or uk can you forgive and forget. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isaac
i think the cat may have caught his tongue. Worth not rplying or cant reply?;D
who me?

hmmm 3 agsint one? nothing new....US , UK , Israel...against muslims?. U just need a couple of more of ure friends to jump in and it will be a big party right?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isaac
i think like you said only when it involves israel, usa or uk can you forgive and forget. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
its not me who subscribes to forget forgive and accept....its the other guys who rather cry down their ancestors sufferng than to see its exactly the same thing that going on today and speak out against it.
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Looking4Peace
07-17-2006, 06:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
There once was a war in Ireland between 2 towns where over 1000 people were killed over a water pail. Anything can happen.

and you sound just like the type of person to do that, you are clearly justifying children and other civilians that have nothing to do with the fighting being killed without a care, you seem to have some personal problems with muslims from my reading of your posts, anyone who justifys what israel is doing is a muslim hater, and i just spoke to my jewish friend today and she basically hates israel, shes anti-zionist, so i guess there is you and then there is her, opposite indeed.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:12 PM
they rather embarass their ppl beliefs an battles than see my point and side with palestine or lebanon. If they cant stand up for their own ppl..then i shouldnt really expect them to understand how to stand up for someone else or to stand up for my people
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Looking4Peace
07-17-2006, 06:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
so u saying that thousands of missles were fired into israel and they did nutten about it....but 2 soldiers were kidnapped (not killed) and they wage war? hmmm dosent make sense to me....

I also noticed ure name is Geranimo? isnt that a name of an american indian? where are the american indians now? didnt the europeans invade their land and killed them and the few remaining were place into Zoo? err i mean reserves?
Isnt that what Israel is about? extending and forming the boarders of israel to occupy and control jerusalem and palestine? and killing the muslims? or putting them in "reserves" ?

you are right and i doubt he is a native american, none i know talk the way he does, hes full of hate. :grumbling
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Lamaggad
07-17-2006, 06:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isaac
i think the cat may have caught his tongue. Worth not rplying or cant reply?;D
hehe, of course he can't reply.. no matter what those ignorance people keep saying.. the truth is obvious to all, there's thousands of Palestinians and Lebanese whom were kidnapped from their houses and they are now in the zionist jails SUFFERING...

wene we wanted to have them back, as allways israel tries to show that they are the victim who is suffering inside the middle east...

if you are not happy between Arabs in the middle east.. basically leave and go live in peace either in USA or Canada... there is plenty of space over there not to mention the support that they will have from harper and bush.

7 Canadians killed in Lebanon by the zionist terrorist attacks, but it's OK Israel needs to save 2 soldiers and defence them selves.. who cares about the 7 Canadians or the Lebanese civilians..?!?
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Looking4Peace
07-17-2006, 06:22 PM
Its sad when someone pics the majority side even when obviously wrong over their own people as Geronimo seems to be doing, dont expect him to side with the arabs either, this is obviously a brainwashed lost soul, i know many native americans that would attack him for what he is saying, hes a disgrace
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 06:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isaac
i think the cat may have caught his tongue. Worth not rplying or cant reply?;D
Because you are talking about somthing 50 years ago vesus something that is happening today. It's not worth my breath arguing about.
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Lamaggad
07-17-2006, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
Its sad when someone pics the majority side over their own people as Geronimo seems to be doing, dont expect him to side with the arabs either, this is obviously a brainwashed lost soul, i know many native americans that would attack him for what he is saying, hes a discrace
who cares about him, let him say what ever he wants... he seems to have allot of hate against Arabs... he is forgetting that Arab have the right to defend their lands. i don't know on what basis is he defending this racist country that they call israel.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:26 PM
^^hmmm......i think they realised they had walked into my trap reagarding their own ppl and they rather disgrace them then side with the muslims....
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
who me?

hmmm 3 agsint one? nothing new....US , UK , Israel...against muslims?. U just need a couple of more of ure friends to jump in and it will be a big party right?
You mean like when it was Egypt, Syria, Jordan, SA, Iraq, and Iran against Israel in 1947?
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 06:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
and you sound just like the type of person to do that, you are clearly justifying children and other civilians that have nothing to do with the fighting being killed without a care, you seem to have some personal problems with muslims from my reading of your posts, anyone who justifys what israel is doing is a muslim hater, and i just spoke to my jewish friend today and she basically hates israel, shes anti-zionist, so i guess there is you and then there is her, opposite indeed.
Funny you seem to do the same thing. I haven't seen any sympathy for Israeli women and children.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 06:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
they rather embarass their ppl beliefs an battles than see my point and side with palestine or lebanon. If they cant stand up for their own ppl..then i shouldnt really expect them to understand how to stand up for someone else or to stand up for my people
Look I didn't disparge you or muslims. Speak of me disgracing my people one more time and the gloves comes off.
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Looking4Peace
07-17-2006, 06:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Funny you seem to do the same thing. I haven't seen any sympathy for Israeli women and children.
In your dreams, i dont side with anyone, i think the killing of civilians in any situation anywhere in the world is wrong, i simple noticed that all u do is stick up for israel, if they decided to kill every arab right this minute im sure ur mind wouldnt change. Dont even try to play games with me, it wont work:heated:
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sameer
07-17-2006, 06:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
You mean like when it was Egypt, Syria, Jordan, SA, Iraq, and Iran against Israel in 1947?
where was israel b4 1947?
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Isaac
07-17-2006, 07:03 PM
sameer, i was using your words to highlight were the other poster, weNt wrong. AND YES, I THINK THE CAT CAUGHT HIS LIL TONGUE. 50 years ago, well lets see if you would say the same thing about hezballah and there capture of the zionist foot soldiers even 2 days from now. how about sleep over night then come out and publicly forgive tem for the act which the whole wolrd has seen as an act of war, while the zionist cowrads bomb and kill oer 200 people and its somewhat justfied. what strange world we live in, oh yeh a world which is being run like a game of momoply by the 1 player zionist movemennt.
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Isaac
07-17-2006, 07:06 PM
sis crystalforpease, your name says it good enough, you dont have to justify yourself to somene who comes across as thinking all people that are against the zionist plague are for the killing of innocent israely citizens. Dont worry about gerronimo, she likes playing games on here.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
You mean like when it was Egypt, Syria, Jordan, SA, Iraq, and Iran against Israel in 1947?
anyhow...... from the way u answered my earlier questions (and yes they were deliberatly about ure people to show u that muslims are going through the same thing that they suffered.....and i syampatize with ure people...)......u just confrimed my ideas of u and ure thinking....u are totally biased.

come on... if someone came into ure house..kicked out some of ure family and took over...how would u feel? wouldnt u want ure neighbours to stand up to help u? ...I'm sure when u go on vacation, u expect ure neighbours to look out for ure home.... so whats ure point about Egypt, syria, jordan? werent there Jews living amongst muslims in peace b4 israel was formed? what was the purpose of instituting boarders in the middle east and placing puppet goverments there? not to ensure that the caliphate never return or that muslims cannot be under one leader? y did they form all those countries and not form palestine? they knew what they were doing...they didnt form Palestine so that israel can lay claim to it ..exactly whats going on now.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 07:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isaac
sis crystalforpease, your name says it good enough, you dont have to justify yourself to somene who comes across as thinking all people that are against the zionist plague are for the killing of innocent israely citizens. Dont worry about gerronimo, she likes playing games on here.
no hard feelings .

i didnt notice geranimo was a girl though.....not that it matters.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
no hard feelings .

i didnt notice geranimo was a girl though.....not that it matters.
Geronimo is not a girl
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
anyhow...... from the way u answered my earlier questions (and yes they were deliberatly about ure people to show u that muslims are going through the same thing that they suffered.....and i syampatize with ure people...)......u just confrimed my ideas of u and ure thinking....u are totally biased.

come on... if someone came into ure house..kicked out some of ure family and took over...how would u feel? wouldnt u want ure neighbours to stand up to help u? ...I'm sure when u go on vacation, u expect ure neighbours to look out for ure home.... so whats ure point about Egypt, syria, jordan? werent there Jews living amongst muslims in peace b4 israel was formed? what was the purpose of instituting boarders in the middle east and placing puppet goverments there? not to ensure that the caliphate never return or that muslims cannot be under one leader? y did they form all those countries and not form palestine? they knew what they were doing...they didnt form Palestine so that israel can lay claim to it ..exactly whats going on now.
They did not live in peace. Dhimmitude is not peace. Al-Husayni lead attacks against Jews all the time.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 07:53 PM
^^ ok HEHEAHAEHAEHEHEHehaehaeheah

lol ok
but nice change of topic to give ureself more time to get/ask ...errrr... i mean come up with a reply to my post.:rollseyes
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 08:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
^^ ok HEHEAHAEHAEHEHEHehaehaeheah

lol ok
but nice change of topic to give ureself more time to get/ask ...errrr... i mean come up with a reply to my post.:rollseyes
You said they lived in peace and I gave examples of where they don't. Your example is false anyway. It's like if someone buys the house next door and as soon as they move in I start throwing rocks and breaking windows. I can't complain if he comes over kicks the crap outta me and put up a fense.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 08:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
they rather embarass their ppl beliefs an battles than see my point and side with palestine or lebanon. If they cant stand up for their own ppl..then i shouldnt really expect them to understand how to stand up for someone else or to stand up for my people
Standing up for my people? I didn't exist when my people had their struggle. Yes, I'm a Kiowa, but I am also an American, and proud of that fact. My people also have a long tradition of service in the U.S. military. Life didn't stand still for us 100 years ago. I suppose I could moan and cry about what happened long ago and hate white people that had nothing to do with it, but what would that gain? Finding common ground and struggling for common goals serves a much better purpose than hate.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 08:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
They did not live in peace. Dhimmitude is not peace. Al-Husayni lead attacks against Jews all the time.
hmm dhimmitude???? isnt that a similar thing that u and ure fellow native american poster was gracious/thankful for when it concerned ure ancestors and europeans overlords?
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 08:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
hmm dhimmitude???? isnt that a similar thing that u and ure fellow native american poster was gracious/thankful for when it concerned ure ancestors and europeans overlords?
We have every right every other American does. In fact when on Tribal land we are governed by Tribal rules. The US government has no juridiction on our lands unless a crime is commited by someone in our tribe outside of the reservation.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
hmm dhimmitude???? isnt that a similar thing that u and ure fellow native american poster was gracious/thankful for when it concerned ure ancestors and europeans overlords?
how come u didnt make it look like a bad thing when u and ure friend (against islam) were saying thats how they survived. U're friend said he was proud....-..if i remember correctly- that his ppl chose that and choose not to fight. In fact he said thats probaly how he exists today...i guess its the same with u rite?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 08:05 PM
I'm not against Islam, that is a pointless accusation to make.

*and by the way, I am proud of their sense of humanity, their willingness to accept defeat to save the lives of children, women, and old people.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
We have every right every other American does. In fact when on Tribal land we are governed by Tribal rules. The US government has no juridiction on our lands unless a crime is commited by someone in our tribe outside of the reservation.
has this always been so?
besides....u think they care if u kill/ murder out each other?

on another note....does itreally have crime on ure resavations?
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sameer
07-17-2006, 08:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I'm not against Islam, that is a pointless accusation to make.

*and by the way, I am proud of their sense of humanity, their willingness to accept defeat to save the lives of children, women, and old people.
well i cant know whats in ure heart..but forgive me if i come up with that opinion from reading ure posts.
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 08:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
has this always been so?
besides....u think they care if u kill/ murder out each other?

on another note....does itreally have crime on ure resavations?
No it wasn't always so 60 years ago no one had rights unless you were a white male. Things are different here now while in some countries in the ME they still practice Dhimmitude.
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Rou
07-17-2006, 08:32 PM
On both sides of the border im sure there are civilian casualties...

but when one is caused by so called terrorists...

the other is caused by a so called democratic goverment...

within there lies a message of why many become angry...

And others cry that they have the RIGHT to do what they are doing..

I say that is the ultimate insult to a people already suffering...

No one has the right to kill the innocent...

Israel is clearly punishing those that hezbollah cares for...the people...

wether fact or not the ideal of hezzbollah is to fight for the people and israel knows this will anger them...

Terrorisem is born of those who suffer and will not be heard in some cases anyhow...

however to make more people suffer does nothing but create more terrorists...

more will rise in anger and more will join hezzbollah...

is there a point in telling anyone this!? probably not as the muslims are so confused that they wouldnt hear a cry for battle if it slapped them in the face and others will type away another useless bantter about israel and its reasons...

have you seen the power israel has have you seen what it has done to lebbanon?

And more important have you seen the reactions of the those who control the west? bush and blair mock and make excuses while innocents die...

This just seems to be a smart way of fighting a war and causing not for the enemy to unite...

israel,uk and US attack and blame eachother as if they knew not what the other was going to do..while muslims die...

its nothing but a smart way of fighting a war... if they showed there true colors and all attacked they know muslims will unite and that will be trouble...

god some one wake these people up...:heated:
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Geronimo
07-17-2006, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
On both sides of the border im sure there are civilian casualties...

but when one is caused by so called terrorists...

the other is caused by a so called democratic goverment...

within there lies a message of why many become angry...

And others cry that they have the RIGHT to do what they are doing..

I say that is the ultimate insult to a people already suffering...

No one has the right to kill the innocent...

Israel is clearly punishing those that hezbollah cares for...the people...

wether fact or not the ideal of hezzbollah is to fight for the people and israel knows this will anger them...

Terrorisem is born of those who suffer and will not be heard in some cases anyhow...

however to make more people suffer does nothing but create more terrorists...

more will rise in anger and more will join hezzbollah...

is there a point in telling anyone this!? probably not as the muslims are so confused that they wouldnt hear a cry for battle if it slapped them in the face and others will type away another useless bantter about israel and its reasons...

have you seen the power israel has have you seen what it has done to lebbanon?

And more important have you seen the reactions of the those who control the west? bush and blair mock and make excuses while innocents die...

This just seems to be a smart way of fighting a war and causing not for the enemy to unite...

israel,uk and US attack and blame eachother as if they knew not what the other was going to do..while muslims die...

its nothing but a smart way of fighting a war... if they showed there true colors and all attacked they know muslims will unite and that will be trouble...

god some one wake these people up...:heated:
Hezbollah don't care about the people if they did they never would have excuted that raid to capture those soldiers. Israel wasn't threatening Lebanon. Also the Israeli's are targeting bridges and power grids. Hezbollah are targeting apartment complexes and bus depots.
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 08:48 PM
Plus, as much as people on here like to pretend this doesn't happen, Israeli warplanes lock on to locations from where Hezbollah attacks originate...and where do these attacks orginate...apartments complexes and civilian neighborhoods of course. That doesn't mean I rejoice in the death of civilians(before i'm accused of that), but that Hezbollah is responsible for as many civilian deaths as Israelis.
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Rou
07-17-2006, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Hezbollah don't care about the people if they did they never would have excuted that raid to capture those soldiers. Israel wasn't threatening Lebanon. Also the Israeli's are targeting bridges and power grids. Hezbollah are targeting apartment complexes and bus depots.
A raid not what i heard as far as i know it was an advance by isralel against hezbollah fighters in which isralei soilders were killed and two captured your saying it as if hezbollah went in to israel and captured the two soilders1?

any links?
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Keltoi
07-17-2006, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
A raid not what i heard as far as i know it was an advance by isralel against hezbollah fighters in which isralei soilders were killed and two captured your saying it as if hezbollah went in to israel and captured the two soilders1?

any links?
First of all, any "advance" into Lebanese territory wouldn't be a handful of soliders. Secondly, is this going to be the next propoganda lie embraced in this forum? That 10 Israeli soldiers were "advancing" on Lebanon and were defeated by the heroic Hezbollah forces who are doing it all for the Palestinians? Sounds very poetic, dumb, but poetic.

here is a link by the way http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/12/mideast/

Notice the magical words..."cross-border raid?"
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sameer
07-17-2006, 11:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Hezbollah don't care about the people if they did they never would have excuted that raid to capture those soldiers. Israel wasn't threatening Lebanon. Also the Israeli's are targeting bridges and power grids. Hezbollah are targeting apartment complexes and bus depots.
no powergrids = no electricity
no electricty = no water pumps
no electricty = no waste treatment
no electricity = no hospital and ICU
no bridges = no food
no bridges = no way out for civilians wheather they support hezbollah or not
no bridges = no aid
no sea ports = no chance to get gasolene to power generators
no genertors = no electricity
no eletricty = no telephones
no telephones = no cries for help

still i dont hear u speakng about the Gaza strip.....israel are acheiving their odjective apart from killing muslims in lebanon, whch is to divert attention from Gaza. again u might say that they are trying to bring down the government which they say is a threat...well palestinians can say the same about the israeli government.
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sameer
07-17-2006, 11:44 PM
also.. ure zionist heroes boast of the bogus equipment and non guided missles that Hezbolah has.......then u cant be angry if their rockets skew wide and miss what ever targets they are intended for... israel have no excuse for hitting civilians...and actually they dont really make excuses....they admit it and dares the world to challenge them.
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MRR
07-17-2006, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
also.. ure zionist heroes boast of the bogus equipment and non guided missles that Hezbolah has.......then u cant be angry if their rockets skew wide and miss what ever targets they are intended for... israel have no excuse for hitting civilians...and actually they dont really make excuses....they admit it and dares the world to challenge them.
LOL! As if hezbollah avoids civilians. They don't care about lebanese civilians, why would they care about Isreals civilians?


format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
A raid not what i heard as far as i know it was an advance by isralel against hezbollah fighters in which isralei soilders were killed and two captured your saying it as if hezbollah went in to israel and captured the two soilders1?

any links?
LOL!! Hey MJF, try and keep up will ya? Everybody knows this already. Besides, it's a no brainer that if Israel was going to advance across the border that they would be smarter than to send jut 10 soldiers! LOL!
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Lamaggad
07-18-2006, 02:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Hezbollah don't care about the people if they did they never would have excuted that raid to capture those soldiers.
The only reason why Hezb Allah have ARRESTED tow soldiers is bcz they care about the Palestinians and Lebanese people who was KIDNAPPED from their houses by the zionist forces... they basically want them to be freed.
Hezb Allah have the right 100% to do what they have done... they never asked for a war, and israel should not start a war with a whole country while Lebanon's own government doesn't know any thing about Hezb Allah's plan.

Israel wasn't threatening Lebanon. Also the Israeli's are targeting bridges and power grids. Hezbollah are targeting apartment complexes and bus depots.
Hezb Allah have attacked israeli military spots.. that is very clear, BUT israel never stopped attacking civilians bcz basically they do not care about Arabs.. i don't understand what benefits did they made when they destroyed the bridges and airports?!?! all that can be rebuild any way...
when the zionist terrorists attacks continued on the innocent people, THEN hezb Allah have attacked some israeli building...
Reply

Lamaggad
07-18-2006, 03:02 AM
if you want to compare the losses between both sides, israel have killed more than 150 innocent people till now and wounded most then 350.
not to mention there is 7 of them who are Canadian citizen.

go to the israeli side Hezb Allah have killed 24 and wounded maybe 50... which clearly means that Hezb Allah is only targeting the israeli military which means they are smart enough and they know exactly what they are targeting and what they will target next...

israel have no choice but to free those people to get the two soldiers... war will continues as long israel will continue... that's how it is.
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Keltoi
07-18-2006, 03:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
if you want to compare the losses between both sides, israel have killed more than 150 innocent people till now and wounded most then 350.
not to mention there is 7 of them who are Canadian citizen.

go to the israeli side Hezb Allah have killed 24 and wounded maybe 50... which clearly means that Hezb Allah is only targeting the israeli military which means they are smart enough and they know exactly what they are targeting and what they will target next...

israel have no choice but to free those people to get the two soldiers... war will continues as long israel will continue... that's how it is.
I just watched a report on the news which was live at the time, and Hezbollah missiles were falling all around the city of Haifa. Hezbollah is not targeting the Israeli military. I like differences of opinion, but not outright falsehoods.
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north_malaysian
07-18-2006, 03:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I just watched a report on the news which was live at the time, and Hezbollah missiles were falling all around the city of Haifa. Hezbollah is not targeting the Israeli military. I like differences of opinion, but not outright falsehoods.
I dont think Hezballah said they would be only targetting Israeli army. For both Hezballah and Israeli - "you kill my people, i'll kill yours".

Can somebody provide me a source saying that Christians, Sunnis and Druzes supporting Hezballah in this war?
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Keltoi
07-18-2006, 03:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I dont think Hezballah said they would be only targetting Israeli army. For both Hezballah and Israeli - "you kill my people, i'll kill yours".

Can somebody provide me a source saying that Christians, Sunnis and Druzes supporting Hezballah in this war?
I doubt such a source exists, except in people's minds.
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north_malaysian
07-18-2006, 05:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I doubt such a source exists, except in people's minds.
Somebody told here that 90% Lebanese supported Hezballah, that's why I doubt it.
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MRR
07-18-2006, 06:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
The only reason why Hezb Allah have ARRESTED tow soldiers is bcz they care about the Palestinians and Lebanese people.....
HA! LOL! Don't fool yourself young one, Hezbollah does not give a crap about civilians on either side of that border. Hezbollah only cares about aquiring power when the dust settles.
LOL!.....Hezbollah cares about Palesti.......HA! HA!.....
Reply

sameer
07-18-2006, 12:24 PM
^^ what do u and israel care about?
Reply

Geronimo
07-18-2006, 01:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
no powergrids = no electricity
no electricty = no water pumps
no electricty = no waste treatment
no electricity = no hospital and ICU
no bridges = no food
no bridges = no way out for civilians wheather they support hezbollah or not
no bridges = no aid
no sea ports = no chance to get gasolene to power generators
no genertors = no electricity
no eletricty = no telephones
no telephones = no cries for help

still i dont hear u speakng about the Gaza strip.....israel are acheiving their odjective apart from killing muslims in lebanon, whch is to divert attention from Gaza. again u might say that they are trying to bring down the government which they say is a threat...well palestinians can say the same about the israeli government.
Stop the rockets coming from Gaza and Lebanon and return the soldiers and the offensive stops.
Reply

Geronimo
07-18-2006, 01:48 PM
Hezb Allah have attacked israeli military spots.. that is very clear, BUT israel never stopped attacking civilians bcz basically they do not care about Arabs.. i don't understand what benefits did they made when they destroyed the bridges and airports?!?! all that can be rebuild any way...
when the zionist terrorists attacks continued on the innocent people, THEN hezb Allah have attacked some israeli building...
A Bus Depot and apartments in Haifa are military spots? Cmon you're kidding right? The reason why the Israelis destroyed bridges, roads, and airports is because they are modes of transpertation. With all of them taken out Hezbollah can not be reenforced with more rockets or men. Smart move by the Israelis. I have yet seen where the Israelis have targeted civilians. They've gone after Hezbollah and because Hezbollah wants to mix in with the civilian population all those deaths are on their hands.
Reply

Geronimo
07-18-2006, 01:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
if you want to compare the losses between both sides, israel have killed more than 150 innocent people till now and wounded most then 350.
not to mention there is 7 of them who are Canadian citizen.

go to the israeli side Hezb Allah have killed 24 and wounded maybe 50... which clearly means that Hezb Allah is only targeting the israeli military which means they are smart enough and they know exactly what they are targeting and what they will target next...

israel have no choice but to free those people to get the two soldiers... war will continues as long israel will continue... that's how it is.
Do you actually believe that Hezbollah is targeting military? Where do you get your info from?
Reply

Geronimo
07-18-2006, 01:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Somebody told here that 90% Lebanese supported Hezballah, that's why I doubt it.
Doubt that considering the christian Lebanese have been fighting Hezbollah for years.
Reply

KAding
07-18-2006, 02:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Somebody told here that 90% Lebanese supported Hezballah, that's why I doubt it.
Didn't you yourself say about 17% of the Lebanese parliament is under control of those parties that support Hezbollah? Wouldn't that show that there are plenty of Lebanese who do not trust them with political power.

If that is true. Why should they now be allowed to dicate policy?
Reply

sameer
07-18-2006, 02:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Stop the rockets coming from Gaza and Lebanon and return the soldiers and the offensive stops.
yes mr olmert!...anything u say mr olmert.! at once mr. olmert!
Reply

Lamaggad
07-18-2006, 02:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I just watched a report on the news which was live at the time, and Hezbollah missiles were falling all around the city of Haifa. Hezbollah is not targeting the Israeli military. I like differences of opinion, but not outright falsehoods.
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Do you actually believe that Hezbollah is targeting military? Where do you get your info from?
it seems both of you have missed the post before that.. i said Hezb Allah responded by targeting the military and the israeli army, but after israeli kept on targeting civilians then Hezb Allah responded back by attacking israeli building...

but it doesn't seem that both of you have compared the numbers or even read this
israel should not start a war with a whole country while Lebanon's own government doesn't know any thing about Hezb Allah's plan.
i guess this one is clear to every one...

i don't understand both of your points... what does israel care about then??! why are you defending it as if both of you are part of it?!?
israel have forced the people of Merwaheen city to evacuate then after they left trying to run away from thier terrorist attacks they killed them infront of the UN who did not do any thing to them...

can you tell me why israel have killed those?!? all of them where children and women... why did they destroy the bridges and aiarpots?! why did they cut out the electricity?!
Reply

sameer
07-18-2006, 03:04 PM
^^ they never see the points from the muslims points of view...... it makes no sense arguing with these guys......

and I also think they are defending as if they are a part or israel . Hence my refering to Geranimo as mr olmbert.
Reply

Lamaggad
07-18-2006, 03:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
A Bus Depot and apartments in Haifa are military spots? Cmon you're kidding right? The reason why the Israelis destroyed bridges, roads, and airports is because they are modes of transpertation. With all of them taken out Hezbollah can not be reenforced with more rockets or men. Smart move by the Israelis. I have yet seen where the Israelis have targeted civilians. They've gone after Hezbollah and because Hezbollah wants to mix in with the civilian population all those deaths are on their hands.
it doesn't seem you will get it... i don't get why are you defending them... do you acutely believe that they are the sons of God who is allowed to do any thing in this world...?!?!? you are so lost.

Bottom line, weather you want to understand or not...Hezb Allah have 100% to protect their land from those terrorist.. 90% of the Lebanese are supporting Hezb Allah not to mention allot of Christians over there do support them as well...

israel is falling and you can see it your self... or never mind you won't see it bcz you are blind behind israel.
Reply

HeiGou
07-18-2006, 03:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
Bottom line, weather you want to understand or not...Hezb Allah have 100% to protect their land from those terrorist.. 90% of the Lebanese are supporting Hezb Allah not to mention allot of Christians over there do support them as well...
Hezbollah does not protect its lands by crossing into Lebanon and kidnapping and murdering soldiers. Nor do they have a right to do a thing. They are not a government, they are private individuals. They have no right to wage war on anyone. It is banditry and ought to be punished as such. I love how you exclude the Christians - for whom Lebanon was created and the only really Lebanese population - from your definition of "Lebanese". We will see how much support Hezbollah has. I expect that it has a lot less than 90 percent.
Reply

Lamaggad
07-18-2006, 04:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Hezbollah does not protect its lands by crossing into Lebanon and kidnapping and murdering soldiers. Nor do they have a right to do a thing. They are not a government, they are private individuals. They have no right to wage war on anyone. It is banditry and ought to be punished as such. I love how you exclude the Christians - for whom Lebanon was created and the only really Lebanese population - from your definition of "Lebanese". We will see how much support Hezbollah has. I expect that it has a lot less than 90 percent.
Hezb Allah did not call for a war... it's israel who called for an OPEN WAR with no limits... and Hezb Allah have responded back the same...
They want a war, so be it, here is are war, Lebanon is under attack then basically israel is under attack, and Haifa and the cities after Haifa will be attacked.
cevilians in Lebanon are being killed and attacked then Hezb Allah will respond exactly the same...
Reply

HeiGou
07-18-2006, 04:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
[Hezb Allah did not call for a war... it's israel who called for an OPEN WAR with no limits... and Hezb Allah have responded back the same...
When Hezbollah crosses an international border, kills some people and kidnaps some more, they are asking for open war with no limits. This is a war crime. It is illegal.

They want a war, so be it, here is are war, Lebanon is under attack then basically israel is under attack, and Haifa and the cities after Haifa will be attacked.
Or in this case, the other way around - when Israel is under attack, then basically Lebanon is under attack. The solution is not to attack Israel.

cevilians in Lebanon are being killed and attacked then Hezb Allah will respond exactly the same...
1. Hezbollah cannot respond exactly the same and so Lebanese civilians will pay the price

2. This is not an effective way of getting anything for anyone.
Reply

Lamaggad
07-18-2006, 05:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
When Hezbollah crosses an international border, kills some people and kidnaps some more, they are asking for open war with no limits. This is a war crime. It is illegal.
wrong, they never asked for an open war, they did to free their people from the israeli jails, if israeli have applied the UN rule number 132... were they should release all the Palestinian and Lebanese people from their jails.
Or in this case, the other way around - when Israel is under attack, then basically Lebanon is under attack. The solution is not to attack Israel.
no boy have attacked israeli Lebanon have ARREST two soldiers not two civilians, SOLDIERS who are there to fight lebanon.

second, Lebanon is being attacked by the israeli mossad before that... and Lebanon didn't do any thing in return...
what do you call that?!? here is the article so you can read it.
http://www.e-palestinetalk.ca/showpo...45&postcount=1
1. Hezbollah cannot respond exactly the same and so Lebanese civilians will pay the price
they actually did... and they can still bomb large companies over there in Haifa and cause allot of damage for them.
2. This is not an effective way of getting anything for anyone.
that's true, it's not an effective way, and i wish israel would stop so Hezb Allah would stop too, but israel is refusing to solve the problem by releasing the people from their jails.. and they have chose a war instead over all Lebanese not just Hezb Allah.
Reply

Rou
07-18-2006, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
First of all, any "advance" into Lebanese territory wouldn't be a handful of soliders. Secondly, is this going to be the next propoganda lie embraced in this forum? That 10 Israeli soldiers were "advancing" on Lebanon and were defeated by the heroic Hezbollah forces who are doing it all for the Palestinians? Sounds very poetic, dumb, but poetic.

here is a link by the way http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/12/mideast/

Notice the magical words..."cross-border raid?"
uhmmm..ok!? calm down... as i said thats what i heard and you have heard otherwise thats fine and thanks for the link...

Unfortunatly still dont justfiy the acts of israel ..but hey what does that matter..
Reply

HeiGou
07-18-2006, 05:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
When Hezbollah crosses an international border, kills some people and kidnaps some more, they are asking for open war with no limits. This is a war crime. It is illegal.
wrong, they never asked for an open war, they did to free their people from the israeli jails, if israeli have applied the UN rule number 132... were they should release all the Palestinian and Lebanese people from their jails.
By attacking Israel they were asking for war. They knew there would be a response. They got one. Their people in Israeli jails? You mean like Samir Quntar who murdered a four year old and suffocated a two year old. In Israel. For which he was convicted and setenced to, what?, 542 years in jail? Seems reasonable to me. Who says Israel should let this man go? It is totally illegal in international law to take hostages so Nasrallah ought to be tried for that alone.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Or in this case, the other way around - when Israel is under attack, then basically Lebanon is under attack. The solution is not to attack Israel.
no boy have attacked israeli Lebanon have ARREST two soldiers not two civilians, SOLDIERS who are there to fight lebanon.
Hezbollah are not a government. They cannot arrest anyone. Those soldiers were on their side of the border. Hezbollah kidnapped them and murdered their colleagues. This is a war crime and ought to be treated as such.

second, Lebanon is being attacked by the israeli mossad before that... and Lebanon didn't do any thing in return...
So some terrorists were blown up in Lebanon and Syria. Who says Israel did it?

format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
1. Hezbollah cannot respond exactly the same and so Lebanese civilians will pay the price
they actually did... and they can still bomb large companies over there in Haifa and cause allot of damage for them.
They cannot destroy Israeli airports, or Israeli power stations or anything like the damage that Israel can do. All they can do is annoy. They cannot respond in the same way Israel can.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
2. This is not an effective way of getting anything for anyone.
that's true, it's not an effective way, and i wish israel would stop so Hezb Allah would stop too, but israel is refusing to solve the problem by releasing the people from their jails.. and they have chose a war instead over all Lebanese not just Hezb Allah.
They should never release anyone held justly from their jails. Hezbollah has chosen war and they are going to cause Lebanon to suffer. Let's see if the Lebanese have the courage to do anything. I do not think Israel is going to lose this time - notice the total lack of support from America, more or less total from Europe, and outright condemnation from the Arab world. Iran has over-played its hand.
Reply

Rou
07-18-2006, 05:57 PM
"By attacking Israel they were asking for war. They knew there would be a response. They got one"

War....

Bombing innocents is not a war its a massacre...such democracy..

WHo wishes to stop terrorisem!???

All of you!??

Then just give hezbollah and other terrorist groups the same funding israel gets from USA and others!

THEN! they will no longer be a terrorist group!! like israel they too!! will have the RIGHT! to defend themselves with an army!


One kills they are a country who defends the other is a terrorist group!? whatever.....

Ignorance! Just beacuse one wears a uniform and kills and carries expensive weapons does not make them saviours!

perhaps in the eyes of some but in the eyes of allah how wealthy your country is when it kills the innocents will not matter!

And for the further ignorant..this is not about bad jews or bad muslims!

this is about bad people! and heed my words they will pay like those who protect them with there lies...

:w:
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HeiGou
07-18-2006, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rou
Bombing innocents is not a war its a massacre...such democracy..
They are not trying to kill civilians or it would be a massacre. They accidentally hit civilians on the way to hitting other targets.

And it is interesting that this sudden dislike of hitting innocents has turned up. May I ask if you ever condemned the Dolphinarium bombing where someone walked up to a group of children and blew himself up killing two dozen or so?

Ignorance! Just beacuse one wears a uniform and kills and carries expensive weapons does not make them saviours!
No, I agree, but it makes it clear they are not terrorists.

this is about bad people! and heed my words they will pay like those who protect them with there lies...
I certainly hope so.
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Rou
07-18-2006, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
They are not trying to kill civilians or it would be a massacre. They accidentally hit civilians on the way to hitting other targets.

And it is interesting that this sudden dislike of hitting innocents has turned up. May I ask if you ever condemned the Dolphinarium bombing where someone walked up to a group of children and blew himself up killing two dozen or so?



No, I agree, but it makes it clear they are not terrorists.



I certainly hope so.
Is this the suicde bomber one!??


thats a question..

as for your answer...

Your doing a silly thing trying to suggest i dont mind the killing of innocents as long as they are not muslims as you yourself know very well that you can search this whole site from top to bottom and you will never find me justfying the deaths of ANY innocents!!

thats my whole point!

but you are justfying it as you seem to be making excuses for the deaths of innocents at the hand of israel!

on the other hand where have i suggested anything about hezbollah being right!????

again...a suggestion first know what or who you are talking about before making wild comments....

you ignored the whole post and refuse to see that israel is a terrorist in its own right! its just a terrorist with money!! as is USA!
Reply

MRR
07-19-2006, 07:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
who cares about him, let him say what ever he wants... he seems to have allot of hate against Arabs... he is forgetting that Arab have the right to defend their lands. i don't know on what basis is he defending this racist country that they call israel.
Um.... the basis that he is right.
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north_malaysian
07-19-2006, 07:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Hezbollah does not protect its lands by crossing into Lebanon and kidnapping and murdering soldiers.
Surprisingly, I have to agree with HeiGou on this particular statement.
Reply

HeiGou
07-19-2006, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Surprisingly, I have to agree with HeiGou on this particular statement.
Wow. At this rate LI will have to open up a sub-forum within the Cyber Counciling Section - for all those who have been traumatised by agreeing with me!

Time for everyone to put their weapons away I think. Hezbollah can only lose this one.
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Geronimo
07-19-2006, 03:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by HeiGou
Wow. At this rate LI will have to open up a sub-forum within the Cyber Counciling Section - for all those who have been traumatised by agreeing with me!

Time for everyone to put their weapons away I think. Hezbollah can only lose this one.
I really believe Iran is behind all of this. Did you notice that Hezbollah started this conflict at the same time Iranian issue was about to go to the Security Council? Now that this conflict has started the Iranian issue has taking second priority. A shameful but smart move by the Iranians if you ask me.
Reply

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