Terrorist Who ?

[dianputri]

:sl:

ISRAELIS vs ARABS
WHO ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS?
By: Hal Turner

North Bergen, NJ USA -- For years, we in America have supported Israel both financially and militarily because we perceived they were the innocent victims of hostile and violent neighbors. The US media has, for years, provided extensive coverage of every incident involving Arab-against-Israeli violence. From shootings, to car bombs to suicide bombers, we in America have seen it all. Or have we?

Why would rational human beings, given a choice, choose to attack their neighbors rather than live together in peace? More pertinent, why would a rational human being choose to blow himself up rather than live? The Israelis, the US media and our politicians would have us believe that the Arabs are simply not rational. They routinely tell us that Arabs are "religious fanatics" who "hate freedom" or "hate our way of life" to quote George W. Bush. These arguments are fallacious and intellectually bankrupt.

The reason for Arab against Israeli violence is simple: The Israelis have been systematically repressing and brutalizing hundreds of thousands of Arabs on a scale unparalleled since World War 2. I have the proof.

Below are photographs of the victims of Israeli violence. They depict brutal, violent death, horrific personal injury and devastation of property which is simply unfathomable. ALL of it was perpetrated by Israelis against Arabs. ALL of the victims are civilians.

As you view these pictures ask yourself this question: What would YOU or YOUR LOVED ONES do in retaliation for these things?


DANGER: SEVENTY-SEVEN GRAPHIC PICTURES OF BRUTAL VIOLENCE, DEATH AND INJURY.

NOT FOR VIEWING BY CHILDREN OR PERSONS WITH WEAK HEARTS!

http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

:sl:

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

As i have siad,the arab goveremnt are too waek.

They think and think of what Islam call them to do but they forgt about unity.

They fear to do what is right and clear.
They fear what will happen to their own people,their own land and thier own sakes,they forget the UMmah.

They make traties with the warmongers and allow their own to be slained.

Inshallah,all this happen and the people who live in thee times under oppresion and still keep the faith..
Astarfillah...Alhmadulilah,,how strong is their faith.
their will

I liken them to the time of Jahiliah of the first muslim..

May Allah reward them

[i_m_tipu]

hard 2 speak for a priod of time

[HeiGou]

Do you really want to endorse these people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

The Hal Turner Show

Turner's radio program originates from a studio in his home. It and his website both shut down temporarily in 2004 due to personal financial problems & the death of his mother. His website returned on-line in November 2004, and he re-started his radio show in June 2005. His site received more than 2.8 million page loads in its first year back on the web.

Turner is racist and anti-Semitic. He has proclaimed his willingness to have his listeners carry-out violence against Jews, blacks, Hispanics, and elected officials. Widely criticized for his views, he was also criticized for openly advocating violence and lawlessness. For example, he is quoted by the Southern Poverty Law Center as saying, "I advocate using extreme violence against illegal aliens. Clean your guns. Have plenty of ammunition. Find out where the largest gathering of illegal aliens will be near you. Go to the area well in advance, scope out several places to position yourself and then do what has to be done."[1]

Turner was interviewed by a number of news outlets in 2005 after it was revealed the FBI interviewed him following the murders of the mother and husband of federal district judge Joan Lefkow. Two years earlier, on his worldwide shortwave show, Turner stated that a decision made by Lefkow, which included an order to a racist "church" to burn its "Bibles", made her "worthy of being killed". After the judge's family was slaughtered, Turner posted a photo on his website of Judge Lefkow with the Headline "GOTCHA!".

Turner routinely goes after federal, state, and even local officials by exposing their home addresses and even publishing leaflets that citizens can print locally, to show their unhappiness with judges whose decisions they disagree with.

Turner's detractors have accused him of a grandiose ego and being overly self-congratulatory. The "Turner Radio Network" regulary hosts programs that exhibit racialist views, thereby endearing him to white racialists.

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[Zionazi_Dissent]

His article is 100% true.

[Geronimo]

His article is 100% true.

Turner is a nut and had Arabs just as much as he hate Jews. If you think he's siding with you you are sadly mistaken

[wilberhum]

His article is 100% true.

That is just the age old stupid concept of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend’.
But when that enemy is gone, you will have a new enemy.

If you are not a white protestant American male, you are supporting your future enemy.

[i_m_tipu]

That is just the age old stupid concept of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend’.
But when that enemy is gone, you will have a new enemy.

If you are not a white protestant American male, you are supporting your future enemy.

stupid concept?

what's make it stupid concept?

can you say a single picture false there???

whatever u say

Palastaini people fight for their right with a empty hand compare to israelis arms.
They have no blame accept the honor.
They die with their head high.

True thing is israeli leaders those who run their country don’t care if their citizen die or not
but they do care a huge
to see
Palastain and the muslim world are suffering or not.
If u studies their order and activities u will understand it without error.

[wilberhum]

stupid concept?

what's make it stupid concept?

can you say a single picture false there???

whatever u say

Palastaini people fight for their right with a empty hand compare to israelis arms.
They have no blame accept the honor.
They die with their head high.

True thing is israeli leaders those who run their country don’t care if their citizen die or not
but they do care a huge
to see
Palastain and the muslim world are suffering or not.
If u studies their order and activities u will understand it without error.

Do you have any idea what the post referred to? Hal Turner
If you conceder him you friend, you have a sad suprise in store.
Just think about the US helping OBL. He is not the only case where we have found that the enemy of our enemy is our future enemy.

[Geronimo]

stupid concept?

what's make it stupid concept?

can you say a single picture false there???

whatever u say

Palastaini people fight for their right with a empty hand compare to israelis arms.
They have no blame accept the honor.
They die with their head high.

True thing is israeli leaders those who run their country don’t care if their citizen die or not
but they do care a huge
to see
Palastain and the muslim world are suffering or not.
If u studies their order and activities u will understand it without error.

No they die with the blood of little kids on buses on their hands. The only Pals that have honor are the ones working toward 2 states like Abu Mazen. The ones that war will only get death.

[Djinn]

His article is 100% true.

Past victims tend to become victimizers...

[Skillganon]

Do you really want to endorse these people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

The Hal Turner Show

Turner's radio program originates from a studio in his home. It and his website both shut down temporarily in 2004 due to personal financial problems & the death of his mother. His website returned on-line in November 2004, and he re-started his radio show in June 2005. His site received more than 2.8 million page loads in its first year back on the web.

Turner is racist and anti-Semitic. He has proclaimed his willingness to have his listeners carry-out violence against Jews, blacks, Hispanics, and elected officials. Widely criticized for his views, he was also criticized for openly advocating violence and lawlessness. For example, he is quoted by the Southern Poverty Law Center as saying, "I advocate using extreme violence against illegal aliens. Clean your guns. Have plenty of ammunition. Find out where the largest gathering of illegal aliens will be near you. Go to the area well in advance, scope out several places to position yourself and then do what has to be done."[1]

Turner was interviewed by a number of news outlets in 2005 after it was revealed the FBI interviewed him following the murders of the mother and husband of federal district judge Joan Lefkow. Two years earlier, on his worldwide shortwave show, Turner stated that a decision made by Lefkow, which included an order to a racist "church" to burn its "Bibles", made her "worthy of being killed". After the judge's family was slaughtered, Turner posted a photo on his website of Judge Lefkow with the Headline "GOTCHA!".

Turner routinely goes after federal, state, and even local officials by exposing their home addresses and even publishing leaflets that citizens can print locally, to show their unhappiness with judges whose decisions they disagree with.

Turner's detractors have accused him of a grandiose ego and being overly self-congratulatory. The "Turner Radio Network" regulary hosts programs that exhibit racialist views, thereby endearing him to white racialists.

This does not change the validity of what was posted, it only confirms majority of the muslim world and some non-muslim of what they are doing.

[i_m_tipu]

hi there

Do you have any idea what the post referred to? Hal Turner
If you conceder him you friend, you have a sad suprise in store.
Just think about the US helping OBL. He is not the only case where we have found that the enemy of our enemy is our future enemy.

i have nothing to deal with Hal Turner

a true is a true

it does not matter if it come from a Dubious people or not

or a true thing never convert to a lie even if it come from Dubious person

again

can you say a single picture false there?

No they die with the blood of little kids on buses on their hands. The only Pals that have honor are the ones working toward 2 states like Abu Mazen. The ones that war will only get death.

give me the ans
why Palestine peoples are fighting?

[HeiGou]

i have nothing to deal with Hal Turner

a true is a true

it does not matter if it come from a Dubious people or not

or a true thing never convert to a lie even if it come from Dubious person

Well yes, but how do you know if it is true or not if you only know of it through a dubious person? May I ask what you think about the rules regarding isnads and aHadith - as I understand it a hadith is deemed unreliable if one person in the isnad is known to be a liar. Is that unfair?

give me the ans
why Palestine peoples are fighting?

Presumably because they come from a culture that does not think this is wrong and they think it will get them somewhere.

[i_m_tipu]

hi HeiGou

Well yes, but how do you know if it is true or not if you only know of it through a dubious person? May I ask what you think about the rules regarding isnads and aHadith - as I understand it a hadith is deemed unreliable if one person in the isnad is known to be a liar. Is that unfair?

What u say about the hadith is true.
But what u understands from that hadith is not accurate.

If u can not judge than u should avoid the talking of known a lair person.

But we r in information age HeiGou
Judging is very easy now

So if u can judge there nothing make a true to lie even if it comes from a dubious person.

Presumably because they come from a culture that does not think this is wrong

Sad……

Children grew up with seeing their brother and parent killed in front of their eyes
People seeing their house totally destroyed
People seeing their family totally killed

They passing their day abnormally
Blame them who force them to grew up abnormally

they think it will get them somewhere

According to my knowledge there is no country in the world did not fight for their freedom and right.

Do you deny..
they are fighting for their right

[HeiGou]

Sad……

Children grew up with seeing their brother and parent killed in front of their eyes
People seeing their house totally destroyed
People seeing their family totally killed

They passing their day abnormally
Blame them who force them to grew up abnormally

For about twenty years from 1949 to 1969 or so, no Palestinian children saw their brothers and parents killed in front of their eyes. From 1969 or so to 1987 very very few Palestinian children saw any violence at all not even their homes destroyed. But in all that time there was some degree of terrorism. After 1969 especially there was a rise in violence committed by Palestinians against Israelis. Why do you have no sympathy for the Jewish children who grew up seeing their brothers and parents killed in front of their eyes? Perhaps it is growing up abnormally in Israel that has caused these attacks on Palestinians?

According to my knowledge there is no country in the world did not fight for their freedom and right.

Do you deny..
they are fighting for their right

Well I think there are countries that don't but that must apply to Israel as well. Do you deny they are fighting for their rights?

My basic problem here isn't the fighting for their rights, it is the stupid, self defeating, violent, terrorism-related form of fighting they have chosen. It is not working. There is little reason to think it will work. And I would oppose it even if it did work. There can be no peace with people who want to subjugate the world.

[i_m_tipu]

For about twenty years from 1949 to 1969 or so, no Palestinian children saw their brothers and parents killed in front of their eyes. From 1969 or so to 1987 very very few Palestinian children saw any violence at all not even their homes destroyed. But in all that time there was some degree of terrorism. After 1969 especially there was a rise in violence committed by Palestinians against Israelis. Why do you have no sympathy for the Jewish children who grew up seeing their brothers and parents killed in front of their eyes? Perhaps it is growing up abnormally in Israel that has caused these attacks on Palestinians?

U gives statistic from 1949 to 1987. let explained it in details.

What happened to rest of (2006-1987) 19 yrs

In 1923-1947 map shows there are no Israeli existence on that map of Palestine

In 29/nov/1947 Israeli UN proposed a partition for the Jewish and Palestine
Where we found Jewish had the nearly 55-60% of the map and the Palestine had nearly 40-45% of the map

1947-1949 1st Arab Israeli war
Israel expanding their border and redraw the map forcedly to 65-70% and Palestine 30-35% of the Palestine- Israel map.

1967 2nd Arab Israeli war Israel expanding their border again this time they took nearly 75-80% of the Palestine- Israel map and poor Palestine had 20-25%.

They expanding their border again and again and again

Does u have any justification of such invasion??

Ur above comment really surprised me

Well I think there are countries that don't but that must apply to Israel as well. Do you deny they are fighting for their rights?

My basic problem here isn't the fighting for their rights, it is the stupid, self defeating, violent, terrorism-related form of fighting they have chosen. It is not working. There is little reason to think it will work. And I would oppose it even if it did work. There can be no peace with people who want to subjugate the world.

I don’t want to answer it

I just quote a post which u posted on
Palestine is ‘property of Islam’!
On 05-16-2006

I don't think you have to redraw borders - and what happened after WW1? - but you do need to let the Germans et al return to their homes where they lived before 1945. In the case of Palestine it is easier because the refugees are still in camps waiting to go home. They have a legal and moral right to go home. That needs to be enforced.

The existence of Israel provides no benefits to anyone. It is a strategic and moral liability to the West. It can only exist through the wholesale abuse of Palestinian human rights. The Jewish Israelis would be better off in the West. I think the West needs to offer them all that choice.

[HeiGou]

U gives statistic from 1949 to 1987. let explained it in details.

What happened to rest of (2006-1987) 19 yrs

In 1923-1947 map shows there are no Israeli existence on that map of Palestine

In 29/nov/1947 Israeli UN proposed a partition for the Jewish and Palestine
Where we found Jewish had the nearly 55-60% of the map and the Palestine had nearly 40-45% of the map

1947-1949 1st Arab Israeli war
Israel expanding their border and redraw the map forcedly to 70% and Palestine 30% of the Palestine- Israel map.

1967 2nd Arab Israeli war Israel expanding their border again this time they took nearly 75-80% of the Palestine- Israel map and poor Palestine had 20-25%.

Notice that there was very little trauma inflicted on the Palestinian civilian population between these two dates. Terrorism arose around 1967 but it was not caused by the Israeli Army blowing up people's houses because they were not blowing up people's houses at that time.

They expanding their border again and again and again

Does u have any justification of such invasion??

Not really. But as long as there is no chance of making peace, there is no point searching for a peaceful solution.

Ur above comment really surprised me

I don’t want to answer it

I just quote a post which u posted on
Palestine is ‘property of Islam’!
On 05-16-2006

Sure. Posting here has not been a happy experience for me. I was wrong. You all have made that clear to me. It is still true that Israel is a liability, but as long as there is no point to working for peace, there is no point withdrawing from anything. That just brings more innocent people within rocket range and gives heart to the radicals. Maybe one day there will be a basis for peace between Muslims and non-Muslims but I do not see one at present. Either we rule "you" or "you" oppress us.

[i_m_tipu]

we prove u wrong??????
see this

Massacre of Israeli 1967 war

a little statistic
50,000 troops (Israel)
(264,000 including mobilized reservists)
197 combat aircraft

280,000 troops (Arab)
(Egypt 150,000; Syria 75,000; Jordan 55,000)
812 combat aircraft

Casualties (Israel)
779 killed,
2,563 wounded,
15 prisoners

(official casualties) (Arab)
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
(estimates)

if u still not finding the real peace breaker
than i have nothing to say.

[HeiGou]

we prove u wrong??????
see this

Massacre of Israeli 1967 war

a little statistic
50,000 troops (Israel)
(264,000 including mobilized reservists)
197 combat aircraft

280,000 troops (Arab)
(Egypt 150,000; Syria 75,000; Jordan 55,000)
812 combat aircraft

Casualties (Israel)
779 killed,
2,563 wounded,
15 prisoners

(official casualties) (Arab)
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
(estimates)

if u still not finding the real peace breaker
than i have nothing to say.

What does that prove except my point? Massacre? Israel fought an open war due to (I still think mostly spurious) provocation against soldiers. They fought well and won. They killed quite a few Arab soldiers in the course of that War. How is that a massacre? How can you even begin to call it a massacre? How is it Israel's fault that their soldiers fought well and the Arabs, by and large, did not?

Moreover what does this have to do with peace? Israel claimed it had to fight that war because of acts of aggression. Perhaps. Perhaps not. It has nothing to do with who wants peace or not.

The bottom line for me is simple: does Islam give me the right you all demand for the Palestinians - to live my own life in my own country according to my own laws and customs? The answer, I have been told enough now to believe, is no, it does not. The next question is trivial - would I prefer Israel fight Islamists in Lebanon or would I prefer to have them come to London?

[i_m_tipu]

What does that prove except my point? Massacre? Israel fought an open war due to (I still think mostly spurious) provocation against soldiers. They fought well and won. They killed quite a few Arab soldiers in the course of that War. How is that a massacre? How can you even begin to call it a massacre? How is it Israel's fault that their soldiers fought well and the Arabs, by and large, did not?

U failed to understand again
Staring that war a big crime.
Expanding border unlawfully was a big crime.

They killed quite a few arab???
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
that looks few to u?

Moreover what does this have to do with peace? Israel claimed it had to fight that war because of acts of aggression. Perhaps. Perhaps not. It has nothing to do with who wants peace or not.

Really
staring war without any approved reason, killing people, expanding border unlawfully.
Does a lot of thing for those who want peace.

The bottom line for me is simple: does Islam give me the right you all demand for the Palestinians - to live my own life in my own country according to my own laws and customs? The answer, I have been told enough now to believe, is no, it does not.

That is another argument.
and What is the relation of this to finding peace?

The next question is trivial - would I prefer Israel fight Islamists in Lebanon or would I prefer to have them come to London?

That another argument.

[i_m_tipu]

1982 Sabra and Shatila Massacre
Part of Lebanese Civil War
Date: 16 September 1982
Location: Sabra and Shatila Refugee Camp


The Sabra and Shatila massacre (or Sabra and Chatila massacre) was carried out in September 1982 by Lebanese Maronite Christian militias in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps. The Maronite forces stood under the direct command of Elie Hobeika, who would later become a longtime Lebanese parliament member and in the 1990s also a cabinet minister. The number of victims of the massacre is estimated at 700-3500

The camps were externally surrounded by Israeli soldiers throughout the incident, and the militias had been sent in by Israel to find Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) members. The Kahan Commission, an Israeli inquiry into the massacre established by the Israeli government, found that while the Phalangists alone, and no Israelis, were directly responsible for the massacre, the conduct of the political and military echelon was flawed, and named then Israeli Defense Minister (and future Prime Minister) Ariel Sharon, among several prominent Israelis, as bearing "personal responsibility" for the events.


Strength
150 irregulars

Pal:2,000(?) mostly disarmed militia, 1,500+ civilians

Casualties
2

Pal:700 - 3,500

[HeiGou]

U failed to understand again
Staring that war a big crime.
Expanding border unlawfully was a big crime.

Does this apply when Muslims do it? Would you like to condemn, oh I don't know, the invasion of Spain?

Israel claims that it did not start it, the Arabs did. This site,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_day...ns_for_the_war

contains a fairly reasonable description of why Israel felt obliged to act.

Nor has Israel expanded its borders as such. It controls, but has not annexed anything other than Jerusalem.

They killed quite a few arab???
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
that looks few to u?

I said quite a few, that is not the same as a few. And on the whole it does not look a lot to me. There are tens of millions of Arabs in the surrounding states. War is much quicker and less brutal than it used to be.

Really staring war without any approved reason, killing people, expanding border unlawfully.
Does a lot of thing for those who want peace.

Peace can be caused by many things and one of those is a realisation that violence is not going to work. After 1967 the Arabs adopted the Three Nos policy: no to even holding talks with Israel. They thought that a violent solution was possible. This is why nuclear weapons make good peace makers - even if you win you lose and so no one thinks of fighting any more.

That is another argument.
and What is the relation of this to finding peace?

It explains why I think the way I do. As there can be no peace with people who reject peace, it is the same argument. Islam won't accept Israel. Ever. Why bother talking? Why shouldn't Israel take as much as it can and ignore justice?

That another argument.

But one close to my heart.

[root]

i_m_tipu

I find your points so flawed that your looking a little ridiculous.

Let's say 1000 unarmed militia come after 3 foriegn people who have grenades and masses of weapons, if the three people then use that weaponry and kill all 1000 militia, to then call it wrong for them to "slaughter" the 1000 militia is nothing short of a joke.

If Germany starting massing massive ammounts of forces on the French border I think the French would become worries, just as Israel did when the Arab countries massed forces near Israel. Incidently, the Arabs could not even be honest with each other as one country stated to the other that it had destroyed Israels air defence, this blatant LIE by 1 arab country to another lead to heavy warplane losses on Arab side...........

[Trumble]

Staring that war a big crime.
Expanding border unlawfully was a big crime.

They killed quite a few arab???
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
that looks few to u?

Really
staring war without any approved reason, killing people, expanding border unlawfully.
Does a lot of thing for those who want peace.

This is just revisionist nonsense. While the Israelis 'started' the Six Day War in the sense they attacked first (against the Arab airfields), nobody disputes that a full-scale Arab attack on Israel was about to take place - not the the Egyptians, not the Syrians, not the Jordanians, nobody. Troops were mobilized and deployed, and the Israelis took the only action possible to preserve their own existence. The Arab intention was to utterly destroy Israel - so why on earth would the Israelis be concerned about whether their occupation of Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan was "lawful" or not? Noboby else was playing by the rules.

It was a full scale war, albeit a short one, and casualties were high as a consequence. As is usually the case in war, casualties accumulate far more quickly for the side that loses the initiative. The Israelis maintained the initiative throughout, fought better, had far more gifted generals, and above all after their initial strike had total air supremacy... something that the ineptness of the Arab commanders had gifted them. The difference in casualty figures is what you would expect to see in such circumstances. Things were much more 'even' in 1973 when the Arabs tried again; on that occasion they managed to keep their attack secret.

[nennar]

salaam alaikum!

i just find it so sad that the jews havent learnt anything from world war 2!!!!!!!! but allways wants all people to think its so sad and we have to se films about their suffering every year! but what they do to others doesent matter... hhhmmmm

[HeiGou]

i just find it so sad that the jews havent learnt anything from world war 2!!!!!!!! but allways wants all people to think its so sad and we have to se films about their suffering every year! but what they do to others doesent matter... hhhmmmm

Really? What do you think they should have learnt from World War Two?

"Don't trust people with strange German accents and a liking for lederhosen"?

How about "people without a state are at the mercy of the strong"?

Or "trusting others leads you to the gas chamber"?

Or "don't lose"?

There are lots of things you could learn from World War Two. Luckily you don't have to see films about their suffering every year. You can turn off.

[nennar]

salaam alaikum !heigou!

[nennar]

salaam alaikum!
heigou! what exactely did you want them to fight with????? stones????? they are not allowed to have weapons...... they are not allowed to travell.... if they speak and the jews dont like it they go to jail....... SO WHAT??????????


and i need to ask ! is this not a forum for muslims???

[i_m_tipu]

Peace HeiGou

Does this apply when Muslims do it? Would you like to condemn, oh I don't know, the invasion of Spain?

Where does u find me not condemning unlawful thing?
Don’t u think this is off topic here

Israel claims that it did not start it, the Arabs did. This site,

[Link only for registered members]

The link u give is not bad.

Lets discuss

On April 7, 1967, a minor border incident escalated into a full-scale aerial battle over the Golan Heights, resulting in the loss of six Syrian MiG-21s to Israeli Air Force (IAF) Dassault Mirage III, and the latter's flight over Damascus.
Other border incidents in which Israel and Syria exchanged artillery, tank and aircraft fire increased the tensions along this front. The Israeli government was under heavy pressure to put an end to Syrian shelling of border villages.

Israel had terrorized their Arabs border and the village near border, they destroying village near border.

And that created a heavy tension into Syria and Egypt

one example can be given

India and Pakistan

They have almost 100 to 1000 people killed in border clash in every year
They have border tension almost every year
Do those starting war every monument?

It is Israeli always thought military is better option than talking. They prove that all the time. They are harmful for the world of peace.


Currently they prove that again.
Some member of Hezbollah kidnaps 2 solider of Israel
They thought they could make their prisoner (their bro/relative) release in exchange. Some them there in prison era after era inhuman way.

But what brutal thing Israel did. They destroyed the city and blowing the family while they in house.
That is the real style of Israel.

contains a fairly reasonable description of why Israel felt obliged to act.

65% agreed
Bcoz it’s highlighting some part and ignoring some part

Nor has Israel expanded its borders as such. It controls, but has not annexed anything other than Jerusalem.

Haahaa
r ur acc hack by Jewish person. Just a joke…

They redraw the maps and u say they controlling the map…
hmmmmmm…that’s interesting

first they have 55-60% now they 75-80% of the map.
Wait Not finished Israeli not only dwelling their new formed map but also into Gaza and other Palestine territories. Part of them they withdraw recently from being continuous pressure from all over the world.

look HeiGou they controlling the whole Palestine
they controlling the thought of Palestine
they controlling the right of Palestine
they controlling the future of Palestine
they controlling the money of Palestine

they controlling the whole Palestine HeiGou

Few months ago I saw an event on BBC. Where a people from Palestine had a chance to speak
The first thing he said is”I m ………. I have no country.

Free the Palestine

I said quite a few, that is not the same as a few. And on the whole it does not look a lot to me. There are tens of millions of Arabs in the surrounding states. War is much quicker and less brutal than it used to be.

According my knowledge I have known u as a peace loving person who rejected a single dead.

How come that same person not affected and saying its not a lot of dead, more number of dead must be included in order call it lot of dead. Shocked…..
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners

It does look lot to me HeiGou

Peace can be caused by many things and one of those is a realization that violence is not going to work. After 1967 the Arabs adopted the Three Nos policy: no to even holding talks with Israel. They thought that a violent solution was possible. This is why nuclear weapons make good peace makers - even if you win you lose and so no one thinks of fighting any more.

Newly declassified documents reveal that the United States of America had worked feverishly behind the scenes attempting to "hold the Israeli tiger" in the days leading up to war. The Johnson Administration received guarantees from Egypt that it would not strike first and arranged a diplomatic visit from Egyptian envoy Zakaria Mohieddin who was scheduled to depart on June 6, 1967. The diplomatic cable stated "we hope it will be possible for him to come without delay" and there were high hopes in the Johnson Administration that the visit would lead to the end of the crisis.

this is why nuclear weapons make good peace makers
totaly Agreed

so give the chance to build nuclear weapons to Palestine and other arab nation
i promise fighting will be stop at once.

It explains why I think the way I do. As there can be no peace with people who reject peace, it is the same argument. Islam won't accept Israel. Ever. Why bother talking? Why shouldn't Israel take as much as it can and ignore justice?

Remember u r talking for the invader.
The meaning of invader is attacker.
How come a attacker is peaceful pls explain.

If u see neutral newspaper/tv or other media compare to others

Most of the time u will found them destroying houses while there are woman and children living and blowing individuals while he driving in car with family without any warning.

Do u really find the Israel is talking effectively?
They are talking to their troops in order to inspire them to
kill all arab.

But one close to my heart.

See….
When u in a position of attacked people.
It will not be difficult for u to realize my saying


Unless u forget
The question was

Do any of those picture is lie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

What about those (2006-1987) 19 yrs?

[i_m_tipu]

Peace

I find your points so flawed that your looking a little ridiculous.

Let's say 1000 unarmed militia come after 3 foriegn people who have grenades and masses of weapons, if the three people then use that weaponry and kill all 1000 militia, to then call it wrong for them to "slaughter" the 1000 militia is nothing short of a joke.

If Germany starting massing massive ammounts of forces on the French border I think the French would become worries, just as Israel did when the Arab countries massed forces near Israel. Incidently, the Arabs could not even be honest with each other as one country stated to the other that it had destroyed Israels air defence, this blatant LIE by 1 arab country to another lead to heavy warplane losses on Arab side...........

My hand now wants to take rest
Would be glad if u read the previous post

Many of arab believe USA and UK involved on that attack. Who knows?
They are the main arms dealer of Israel. Helping them surely increase their Arms business.

[i_m_tipu]

This is just revisionist nonsense. While the Israelis 'started' the Six Day War in the sense they attacked first (against the Arab airfields), nobody disputes that a full-scale Arab attack on Israel was about to take place - not the the Egyptians, not the Syrians, not the Jordanians, nobody. Troops were mobilized and deployed, and the Israelis took the only action possible to preserve their own existence. The Arab intention was to utterly destroy Israel - so why on earth would the Israelis be concerned about whether their occupation of Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan was "lawful" or not? Noboby else was playing by the rules.

It was a full scale war, albeit a short one, and casualties were high as a consequence. As is usually the case in war, casualties accumulate far more quickly for the side that loses the initiative. The Israelis maintained the initiative throughout, fought better, had far more gifted generals, and above all after their initial strike had total air supremacy... something that the ineptness of the Arab commanders had gifted them. The difference in casualty figures is what you would expect to see in such circumstances. Things were much more 'even' in 1973 when the Arabs tried again; on that occasion they managed to keep their attack secret.

Revisionist nonsense
U know I have some experience about the time when people starting to talk like this.

Don’t worry I won’t bite u bcoz I m not use to and Islam not let me to do that.

Preserve their own existence
Stop saying this song again and again

Israel also use this…
Their common word preserve our own existence against Palestine.

Compare to Israel Palestine………Ans….. can’t find answer, N/A(not applicable)

The arab threaten them

In his speech to Arab trade unionists on May 26, Nasser announced: "If Israel embarks on an aggression against Syria or Egypt, the battle will be a general one... and our basic objective will be to destroy Israel.

In this speech do u find anywhere arab are going to attack Israel
Nasser only say
If Israel embarks on an aggression against Syria or Egypt

Newly declassified documents reveal that the United States of America had worked feverishly behind the scenes attempting to "hold the Israeli tiger" in the days leading up to war. The Johnson Administration received guarantees from Egypt that it would not strike first and arranged a diplomatic visit from Egyptian envoy Zakaria Mohieddin who was scheduled to depart on June 6, 1967. The diplomatic cable stated "we hope it will be possible for him to come without delay" and there were high hopes in the Johnson Administration that the visit would lead to the end of the crisis.

hope it is enough

[nennar]

salaam alaikum!

heigou! i know know that you are a jew!!!!!!!! and all you do in this forum is to make problems and start a war in here! if you feel so strongly about what happends... then you are in the wrong war!....... the jews had a very touhg time during ww2 and i really do feel sad for them ....BUT read your torah!........... its saying that you dont have a land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you forget this??????????????? because the jewish people from the beginning of time DIDNtt listenn to GOD! your are cursed and you all know it! thats why you do all the terrible things you do...... go and fight... that would be better for you and your soul

[Trumble]

Preserve their own existence
Stop saying this song again and again

Why? It happens to be true.

In this speech do u find anywhere arab are going to attack Israel
Nasser only say
If Israel embarks on an aggression against Syria or Egypt

Quite right. Nasser didn't include in that particular speech an advance announcement of an attack intended to destroy the State of Israel. Do you think that would have been smart?! Well, we don't know if Nasser did or not. From the same article (which I notice you didn't source), another quote from Nasser;

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more declarations."

Oh dear.

guarantees

Ah, "guarantees". That's all right then; via the Americans the Israelis could have complete confidence in those.

You might as well LINK to the whole of that article. You don't mention such things as;

On May 18, 1967, Egypt formally requested the withdrawal of UNEF from Sinai. UN Secretary-General U Thant complied, thus removing the international buffer which had existed along the Egyptian-Israeli border since 1957. Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser then began the re-militarization of the Sinai, and concentrated tanks and troops on the border with Israel.

and

On May 22, Egypt announced that the Straits of Tiran would be closed to "all ships flying Israel flags or carrying strategic materials", with effect from May 23

and

he continued to take actions intended to increase the level of mobilization of Egypt, Syria and Jordan in order to bring unbearable pressure on Israel.

With ever increasing Arab mobilization, waiting was a luxury the Israelis could no longer afford. If they had, their defeat would have been inevitable once that mobilization was complete and those "guarantees" could conveniently be ignored by those who had given them.

[nennar]

look at this heigou!!!!!
The Shame of Being an American
By Paul Craig Roberts

Gentle reader, do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out. Israel then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.

Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by Israel’s attacks on civilian residential districts are children? That is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS. Don’t be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less evil than the puppet master?
Of course, you don’t know these things, because the US print and TV media do not report them.

Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians. Bush has told the UN "NO." Bush has told the European Community "NO." Bush has told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister "NO." Twice. Bush is very proud of his firmness. He is enjoying Israel’s rampage and wishes he could do the same thing in Iraq.

Does it make you a Proud American that "your" president gave Israel the green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from Israeli shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of Beirut and throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food production and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on roads, on every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life depends?

Are you a Proud American? Or are you an Israeli puppet?
On July 20, "your" House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor of Israel’s massive war crimes in Lebanon. Not content with making every American complicit in war crimes, "your" House of Representatives, according to the Associated Press, also "condemns enemies of the Jewish state."

Who are the "enemies of the Jewish state"?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state. They are Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only. They are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant Zionist "settlers" under the protection of the Israeli army who beat and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes because they will be murdered by Israeli "settlers."

The Palestinians who confront Israeli evil are called "terrorists." When Bush forced free elections on Palestine, the people voted for Hamas. Hamas is the organization that has stood up to the Jewish state. This means, of course, that Hamas is evil, anti-Semitic, un-American and terrorist. The US and Israel responded by cutting off all funds to the new government. Democracy is permitted only if it produces the results Bush and Israel want.
Israelis never practice terror. Only those who are in Israel’s way are terrorists.

Another enemy of the Jewish state is Hizbollah. Hizbollah is a militia of Shia Muslims created in 1982 when Israel first invaded Lebanon. During this invasion the great moral Jewish state arranged for the murder of refugees in refugee camps. The result of Israel’s atrocities was Hizbollah, which fought the Israeli army, defeated it, and drove it, with its Satanic tail between its legs, out of Lebanon. Today Hizbollah not only defends southern Lebanon but also provides social services such as orphanages and medical care.

To cut to the chase, the enemies of the Jewish state are any Muslim country not ruled by an American puppet friendly to Israel. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the oil emirates have sided with Israel against their own kind, because they are dependent either on American money or on American protection from their own people. Sooner or later these totally corrupt governments that do not represent the people they rule will be overthrown. It is only a matter of time.

Indeed Bush and Israel may be hastening the process in their frantic effort to overthrow the governments of Syria and Iran. Both governments have more popular support than Bush has, but the White House Moron doesn’t know this. The Moron thinks Syria and Iran will be "cakewalks" like Iraq, where ten proud divisions of the US military are tied down by a few lightly armed insurgents.

If you are still a Proud American, consider that your pride is doing nothing good for Israel or for America.
On July 20 when "your" House of Representatives, following "your" US Senate, passed the resolution in support of Israel’s war crimes, the most powerful lobby in Washington, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), quickly got out a press release proclaiming "The American people overwhelming support Israel’s war on terrorism and understand that we must stand by our closest ally in this time of crisis."
The truth is that Israel created the crisis by invading a country with a pro-American government. The truth is that the American people do not support Israel’s war crimes, as the CNN quick poll results make clear and as was made clear by callers into C-Span.
Despite the Israeli spin on news provided by US "reporting," a majority of Americans do not approve of Israeli atrocities against Lebanese civilians. Hizbollah is located in southern Lebanon. If Israel is targeting Hizbollah, why are Israeli bombs falling on northern Lebanon? Why are they falling on Beirut? Why are they falling on civilian airports? On schools and hospitals?

Now we arrive at the main point. When the US Senate and House of Representatives pass resolutions in support of Israeli war crimes and condemn those who resist Israeli aggression, the Senate and House confirm Osama bin Laden’s propaganda that America stands with Israel against the Arab and Muslim world.

Indeed, Israel, which has one of the world’s largest per capita incomes, is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. Many believe that much of this "aid" comes back to AIPAC, which uses it to elect "our" representatives in Congress.

This perception is no favor to Israel, whose population is declining, as the smart ones have seen the writing on the wall and have been leaving. Israel is surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims who are being turned into enemies of Israel by Israel’s actions and inhumane policies.

The hope in the Muslim world has always been that the United States would intervene in behalf of compromise and make Israel realize that Israel cannot steal Palestine and turn every Palestinian into a refugee.

This has been the hope of the Arab world. This is the reason our puppets have not been overthrown. This hope is the reason America still had some prestige in the Arab world.
The House of Representatives resolution, bought and paid for by AIPAC money, is the final nail in the coffin of American prestige in the Middle East. It shows that America is, indeed, Israel’s puppet, just as Osama bin Laden says, and as a majority of Muslims believe.
With hope and diplomacy dead, henceforth America and Israel have only tooth and claw. The vaunted Israeli army could not defeat a rag tag militia in southern Lebanon. The vaunted US military cannot defeat a rag tag, lightly armed, insurgency drawn from a minority of the population in Iraq, insurgents, moreover, who are mainly engaged in civil war against the Shia majority.

What will the US and its puppet master do? Both are too full of hubris and paranoia to admit their terrible mistakes. Israel and the US will either destroy from the air the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and Iran so that civilized life becomes impossible for Muslims, or the US and Israel will use nuclear weapons to intimidate Muslims into acquiescence to Israel’s desires.

Muslim genocide in one form or another is the professed goal of the neoconservatives who have total control over the Bush administration. Neocon godfather Norman Podhoretz has called for World War IV (in neocon thinking WW III was the cold war) to overthrow Islam in the Middle East, deracinate the Islamic religion and turn it into a formalized, secular ritual.
Rumsfeld’s neocon Pentagon has drafted new US war doctrine that permits pre-emptive nuclear attack on non-nuclear states.

Neocon David Horowitz says that by slaughtering Palestinian and Lebanese civilians, "Israel is doing the work of the rest of the civilized world," thus equating war criminals with civilized men.

Neocon Larry Kudlow says that "Israel is doing the Lord’s work" by murdering Lebanese, a claim that should give pause to Israel’s Christian evangelical supporters. Where does the Lord Jesus say, "go forth and murder your neighbors so that you may steal their lands"?

are these your heroes?????????????????

[nimrod]

Hei Gou, thanks for the link on the Six Day war, I found it very informative.

I also read the further link from that page to the article about the Yom Kipper war.

It too was a very good read.

Thanks
Nimrod

[nimrod]

There seems to be some assumptions being made, that I just don’t understand.

Since when did it become a requirement for the victor of a war to return lands that have been captured?

I am very lacking in my studies of history, but wouldn’t it be a correct statement to say that for most of man-kind’s history, the normal result of war was that the “spoils of war go to the victor” and that often included keeping the land?

I am also very confused as to where the concept of a tit-for-tat battle became the accepted means of fighting a war.

Isn’t the idea of meeting an opposing force with an over-welling response the accepted normal way of fighting and winning a war?

I find it highly doubtful that any other country would listen to any calls for a very limited response to the same sort of shelling and incursions and murder and kidnapping of its soldiers as Israel has endured.

If Israel was geographically located differently, I am certain you would see a totally different response, the same sort of response Iran and Iraq used in dealing with each other.

Hezbollah has declared war on Israel (I would dare say they have never, not been at war with Israel).

I don’t know if there is a workable long-term solution to bring peace to the Middle East, but I do know that one of the surest ways to have the problems drag on till all the grand children are old, is to have a tit-for-tat limited response to acts of aggression.

Israel is not going to willing give up and cease to be a nation.
The Western world is not going to stand by and allow the Middle Eastern nations to band together and destroy Israel.

That is the way it is. Sooner or later that will have to be understood by everybody and folks will finally quit dying while trying to change that.

Thanks
Nimrod

[nennar]

and what about what israel have done?????????????????????? its always poor poor israel!!!!!!!!! they kill and starve people like they want... and its okay??????? actually what you are saying is all others than the jews and cristians are animals.......! i say it again....... i thought this forum was for muslims?

[nimrod]

Nennar, I thought the forum was for any interested party willing to politely a pov.

Thanks
Nimrod

[nennar]

i also want from the bottum of my heart... this forum to be for all! but someone only come into this forum , to make war not to disscuss ..... and i really dont understand what these types wants! we are seeing our sisters and brothers beeing killed... and for what?????? for the state of israel???? who do what ever they want eveyday...... they dont care about anyone other than them selves...... they are heartless uncaring humanbeeings...... i know that not all israeis are like that... but

[Trumble]

i also want from the bottum of my heart... this forum to be for all! but someone only come into this forum , to make war not to disscuss ..... and i really dont understand what these types wants! we are seeing our sisters and brothers beeing killed... and for what?????? for the state of israel???? who do what ever they want eveyday...... they dont care about anyone other than them selves...... they are heartless uncaring humanbeeings...... i know that not all israeis are like that... but

The Israelis are no different than anybody else, or more "heartless", "uncaring" or "evil" than anybody else. That's why its so important to understand the reasons for their actions and not just accept "Arabs/muslims good, Jews bad" or words to that effect. The same is just as true from the other side - neither can Hezbollah and Hamas just be labelled "terrorist". Why do most Israelis consider the action in Lebanon necessary? Why do Hezbollah consider their actions in starting this justified?

Understanding the reasons why both sides think and act as they do, accepting them as a reality and accepting blame as appropriate is an essential pre-requisite to finding any solution. A solution, and an end to the conflict, must take place in the real-world. All of us posting here or on forums across the internet, of whatever religion, could sit posting and complaining all day about atrocities committed by one side or the other, how evil so-and-so may be, what should happen, what should HAVE happened, and what so-and-so should do. It will achieve absolutely nothing. Only understanding - in time - can do that, and sometimes opening your eyes to the other point of view (that does not mean you have to agree with it) can be painful, particularly in circumstances such as these.

[جوري]

Little history on Israel

NATIONHOOD AND JERUSALEM

1. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
The use of the word “nation” is ambiguous unless it is defined. It is confusing and misleading to use a modern notion and apply it to what happened in 1312 BC. This is how Black’s Law Dictionary defines the word "nation":

“a people, or aggregation of men, existing in the form of an organized jural society, usually inhabiting a distinct portion of the earth, speaking the same language, using the same customs, possessing historic continuity, and distinguished from other like groups by their racial origin and characteristics, and generally, but not necessarily, living under the same government and sovereignty.”
According to this definition Israel became a nation once it became an independent kingdom in 1011 BC (King David 1011-971 BC; and King Solomon 971-931 BC). In 931 BC, the kingdom was divided in two: Israel in the north, (capital Samaria) from 931 to 722 BC; and Judah in the south (capital Jerusalem) from 931 to 587 BC.
Samaria fell to Assyria in 722 BC and a large portion of the population was deported. This kingdom lasted for 209 years.
Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians in 587 BC and the cream of the population was deported. This kingdom lasted for 344 year.
The total number of years during which Israel was a "nation", even if we take into consideration the small Kingdom of Judah is 424 years. Outside this period Israel was more of a religion than a nation.
The Pittsburgh Platform of 1885 was issued by a group of reform rabbis. It stated: “we consider ourselves no longer a nation but a religious community" (see full text of Pittsburg Platform ).
Furthermore, a letter dated April 20, 1964, from Assistant Secretary of State Phillips Talbot to Rabbi Elmer Berger stated: the State Department "does not recognize a legal-political relationship based upon religious identification of American citizens ... it should be clear that the Department of State does not regard the Jewish people concept as a concept of international law" (see full text of the letter ).
Israel ceased to be a nation in 587 BC. It became a nation again in AD 1948. According to the definition given in Black’s Law Dictionary Jews who are not Israelis do not belong to the Israeli nation, they belong the Jewish faith like their coreligionists in Israel.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the Modern State of Israel.
First, there are no Arab refugees in Israel, unless the writer has already annexed the Occupied Territories, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon to Israel.
The problem of the Palestinian refugees, that the writer calls “Arab” refugees to confuse the reader and avoid using the word Palestinian, started from the moment Israel was established in 1948, since some 700,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes and their homeland and were not allowed to return. There is even a UN resolution that deal with the Palestinian refugees. It is General Assembly resolution 194 of 11 December 1948. The resolution deals explicitly, among other things, with the return of the Palestinian refugees to their homes.
Whether the "Arab" refugees began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967 or not is irrelevant. The fact is that there is today a universal aknowledgment that there is a Palestinian people, even Israel acknowledges this fact. To deny it won't solve the problem of Israel.


3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
What is said in No. 1 above is relevant here. I detect a contradiction between what is said in 1 above and what is being said here. How can Israel be considered a nation in 1312 BC (see No. 1 above) when the "Jewish conquest" of the land of Canaan occurred later in 1272 BC?
There can be no nation without “inhabiting a distinct portion of the earth,” according to the definition. The continuous presence in the land, if we accept it for the sake of argument, was a presence of the Jews as individuals not as a nation. Following the first revolt, the Romans destroyed the Temple in AD 70. After the second revolt (AD 132-135), the Jews were either killed or sold into slavery and dispersed in the Roman Empire. Emperor Hadrian built a temple in honor of Jupiter on the site of the Jewish temple and issued a decree that prohibited under penalty of death the presence of the Jews in Jerusalem. The prohibition was lifted after the Muslim Arab conquest.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
In 638, not 635, Jerusalem and Palestine, were conquered by the Muslim Arabs. The Muslim rule lasted from 638 to 1099, from 1187 to 1229 and from 1239 to 1917 which is the year Jerusalem fell to General Allenby. In the interim periods, that is from 1099 to 1187 and from 1229 to 1239 the Crusaders established the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem. The total number of years Muslims ruled Jerusalem and Palestine is 1,181 years not 22. The writer was off the mark by just 1,159 years. It should be mentioned that before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War One, there was only one dominion, Muslim dominion. Speaking of Arab dominion is misleading.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
Jerusalem was a Jewish capital for no more than 424 years (see No. 1 above). In fact, Jerusalem was a meaningful capital only when the kingdom established by David was unified, that is from 1011 BC to 931 BC, or 80 years. The fact that Jerusalem was never a capital of any Arab or Muslim entity doesn't make it less of an Arab city. San Antonio has never been the capital of the United States. Does this mean that it is a Mexican city?

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
What does this suppose to mean? What is the conclusion that must be drawn from this statement? How about counting the number of times Jerusalem was mentioned in the New Testament?

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
The answer given in 6 above is relevant here. Again, what about Jesus? In their profession of faith, Christians say at every mass: “for our sake he (Jesus Christ) was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures." These events didn't happen in Paris or New York but in Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
Another incongruous statement. What are we supposed to make of it? The issue is not a religious one, as the author is trying to establish from points 5 to 8 . It is an issue of self-determination of a disenfranchised indigenous people. Also, the writer is presenting the issue as if it is an issue between the Jews and the Muslims ignoring the fact that the Arab Christians in the Middle East outnumber the Jews of Israel and the billion Christians in the world outnumber the 14 million Jews. The fact also is that Christianity has more holy sites in Jerusalem than Judaism and Islam combined. The Church of the Holy Sepulcher, the holiest place in Christianity, is in Jerusalem. If the issue is a religious one, then the Christians' claim is stronger than that of the Jews or the Muslims.


ARAB AND JEWISH REFUGEES

9. In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
Simha Flapan in his book, The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities, refers to the terrorists methods used by the Haganah, Irgun and LEHI to force the Palestinians out of their homeland. Flapan estimated that “84 percent (of the Palestinians) left in direct response to Israeli actions.” The Irish journalist, Erskine Childers, examined the American and the British radio-monitoring records for all 1948. In his article "The Other Exodus" that appeared in the (London) Spectator of May 12, 1961, he wrote the following: "There was not a single order, or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put." (see the full text ).

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
The Jews were forced to flee the Arab countries not because of Arab brutality but because of Jewish brutality. Akiva Orr in his book Israel: Politics, Myths and Identity Crises wrote the following: “in 1948 Jews were not expelled from countries like Iraq, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya, but induced to leave by Zionist emissaries from Israel who often used dirty tricks like throwing bombs into synagogues to create the impression of anti-Jewish persecution to stampede the Jews to Israel.” Once in Israel, some of the Iraqi Jews have even sued the Israeli government for damages. Also, Wilbur Crane Evenlan, a former senior officer in the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) wrote in his 1980 book Ropes of Sand: America's Failure in the Middle East:

"In attempts to portray the Iraqis as ani-American and to terrorize the Jews, the Zionists planted bombs in the U.S. Information Service library and in synagogues. Soon leaflets began to appear urging Jews to flee to Israel. ... Although the Iraqi police later provided our embassy with evidence to show that the synagogue and library bombings as well as the anti-Jewish and anti-American leaflet campaings had been the work of an underground Zionist organization, most of the world believed reports that Arab terrorism had motivated the flight of the Iraqi Jews whom the Zionists had "rescued" really just in order to increase Israel's Jewish population." (pp. 48-49)
For a first-hand account by an eyewitness, read Naeim Giladi's testimony in The Link of April-May 1998, published by the Americans for Middle East Understanding, Inc. Read The Jews of Iraq .
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
Again the Palestinian refugees, (not Arab refugees) who left Israel in 1948 did not leave Palestine voluntarily but were driven out by the Jewish terrorist organizations (see 9 above). On the other hand, the Jewish “refugees” left voluntarily or induced to leave from their Arab homelands (see No. 10 above).

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
Should we show our appreciation to the writer for his concern about the Palestinian refugees who were “INTENTIONALY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands?” The writer is lamenting the fact that the Palestinians are “the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples’ lands.” Well, their land is Palestine. I am all for their return to their land. The writer wants the Palestinian refugees to be absorbed in the Arab lands. This is exactly how criminals think. They want to remove any trace of the crime they have committed; then they can delude themselves that they have a clear conscience.


THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT

13. The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
If the writer knew how to count he would have found out that there are 20 Arab states not 8. Whether there are 20 or 70 Arab states, Palestinians are entitled to live in their homeland. As far as the "five wars" intitiated by the Arabs: The first war was the 1948 war and was triggered by the establishment of Israel. The 1956 war was started by Israel with the help of France and Great Britain. The 1967 war was started by Israel. The 1973 war was launched by Egypt and Syria to liberate their occupied territories, not more. The 1982 war against Lebanon was started by Israel.

14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.
The PLO Charter has been amended and all clauses calling for Israel’s destruction were cancelled. On April 24, 1996, the Palestine National Council voted 504 to 54 to cancel those clauses. Contrary to what is stated, Israel has NOT given the Palestinians most of the West Bank. The West Bank was divided into three zones: Area A fully controlled by the Palestinian Authority consists of 12%; Area B jointly controlled by Israel (security control) and the Palestinian Authority (civilian control) consists of 26.8%; and Area C totally controlled by Israel consists of 61.2%. Who then controls most of the West Bank? (see map )

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
Under Jordanian rule Israel, the Jewish state, was officially at war with Jordan. Under the Israeli rule, Muslim and Christian Palestinians from the occupied territories are today denied access to places of worship. Those Muslims and Christians who have access to places of worship are Israeli citizens. Desecration of holy sites is done by fanatics. There is no shortage of them among Muslims, Christians and Jews.


THE U.N. RECORD ON ISRAEL AND THE ARABS

16. Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
That is because Israel was at fault 97 times.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
That is because Israel was at fault 429 times.

18. The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
Why is it that Israel did not complain to the U.N.?

19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
The U.N. is not a super government. Member states must take the initiative to complain or ask for a Security Council meeting to take up their complaints.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
See answer given in No. 19.



These are incredible times. We have to ask what our role should be. What will we tell our grandchildren we did when there was a turning point in Jewish destiny, an opportunity to make a difference?
These are indeed incredible times. We should tell our grandchildren the truth.

For those of you who were kind and interested enough to read, the preceding, let me add two more items:

a) Israel is the ONLY MEMBER OF THE UN THAT IS NOT PERMITTED MEMBERSHIP ON THE SECURITY COUNCIL
For Israel to be a member of the Security Council it has to belong to one of the five following groups: Asian states, African states, Latin American and the Caribbean states, Eastern European states, and Western Europe and other states. If no one group wants to accept Israel as a member then there must be something wrong with Israel.

b) Israel has NEVER BEEN PERMITTED MEMBERSHIP IN THE INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS
As far as I know, it is because Israel insists on using the Star of David as en emblem. The Red Cross accepted the Crescent next to the Cross because there are many Muslim states in the world. How many Jewish states are there in the world?

START NOW!!
Send this to 20 other people you know and ask them to send it to twenty others, Jews and non-Jews, it doesn't really matter. The truth and the cause of peace are universal values we all share, and everyone must know.
By all means. Don't just send this to 20 other people but to the whole world, so that the whole world will learn the truth and the whole world will also learn how the truth is being distorted and the facts are being manipulated by the author of this Crash Course in the Real Facts.

Back to Table of Contents

[جوري]

shorter version
the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of
Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or
inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If
this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the
eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO
genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents
of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been
documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can
claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day
"Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact
that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine
was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and
assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only
ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled
the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a
history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

I hope this helps,

[nennar]

thank you sis!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you for at last putting the point down

[جوري]

I think it is important to read history stripped of politics... otherwise it is easy to give up one's rights... people prey on fear and ignorance .....

[nennar]

:w: :sister: !

yes they prey on fear and ignoranz!


so sad:cry:

[جوري]

Hang tough... remember this is you can read arabic
"Allhouma anta rabi, la illah ila ant, 3lyka twaklt, wanta rab al3rsh al3atheem, masha Allah kan, wma lam yahsha lam yakoun, wla 7wla wla qiwta ila billah al3ly al3aztheem, a3lam ana Allah 3la kol shy'yen qadeer, wana Allah a7at bikol shy'en 3ilma" And know that no one can do anything to you or the Muslim world that Allah doesn't will... =)

[Trumble]

a) Israel is the ONLY MEMBER OF THE UN THAT IS NOT PERMITTED MEMBERSHIP ON THE SECURITY COUNCIL
For Israel to be a member of the Security Council it has to belong to one of the five following groups: Asian states, African states, Latin American and the Caribbean states, Eastern European states, and Western Europe and other states. If no one group wants to accept Israel as a member then there must be something wrong with Israel.

Geographically Israel should belong to the Asian group, but unsurprisingly membership was barred by the Arab states. For the record Israel was granted temporary membership of the 'Western European and others' group in 2000, which was made permanent in 2004. Since 2000 they have been as eligible for Securith Council membership as anybody else.

b) Israel has NEVER BEEN PERMITTED MEMBERSHIP IN THE INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS
As far as I know, it is because Israel insists on using the Star of David as en emblem. The Red Cross accepted the Crescent next to the Cross because there are many Muslim states in the world. How many Jewish states are there in the world?

What lovely sense of timing! Israel was finally admitted to the International Red Cross last Thursday!

[i_m_tipu]

Why? It happens to be true.

let me think
Hmmm…..
give u the future screen of the world.(after thinking)

If all those countries who have nuclear capabilities/strong Arm forces
starting to say…
their neighbor countries or any other countries are harmful for their existence
and they staring invading all the neighbor counties/ terrorize their right in order to make them poor/ less capable. What will happen than?

World become a barbaric one then any ever imagine.

if u study u found a very few countries are called peaceful from their neighbor
Border tension can be happen bcoz military personal a bit rush blooded.

But that does not give permission to anyone starting war. .

Actually I was in debate will heigou
Where heigou keep saying that
Palestine refuses peace and prefers violent solution

It is Israel who wants to solve problem with arm

right. Nasser didn't include in that particular speech an advance announcement of an attack intended to destroy the State of Israel. Do you think that would have been smart?! Well, we don't know if Nasser did or not. From the same article (which I notice you didn't source), another quote from Nasser;

Annoyed again

The source is from heigou.
I mention it on the reply.
Also saying that it’s not a bad link.
It is u that not reading the post but reply with big mouth

u and ur people’s thought (Preserving existence) killed above 20000 thousands people
Leveled several villages.

That is really right and peaceful thing to do.

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more declarations."

Who deny it?

U must find why that situation created
I post it earlier
U may not read it (based on the same source heigou given and u)
my comment is : that source cover the subject why that situation created poorly

On April 7, 1967, a minor border incident escalated into a full-scale aerial battle over the Golan Heights, resulting in the loss of six Syrian MiG-21s to Israeli Air Force (IAF) Dassault Mirage III, and the latter's flight over Damascus.
Other border incidents in which Israel and Syria exchanged artillery, tank and aircraft fire increased the tensions along this front. The Israeli government was under heavy pressure to put an end to Syrian shelling of border villages.

Israel had terrorized their Arabs border and the village near border, they destroying village near border.

And that created a heavy tension into Syria and Egypt

one example can be given

India and Pakistan

They have almost 100 to 1000 people killed in border clash in every year
They have border tension almost every year
Do those starting war every monument?

It is Israeli always thought military is better option than talking. They prove that all the time. They are harmful for the world of peace.


Currently they prove that again.
Some member of Hezbollah kidnaps 2 solider of Israel
They thought they could make their prisoner (their bro/relative) release in exchange. Some them there in prison era after era inhuman way.

But what brutal thing Israel did. They destroyed the city and blowing the family while they in house.
That is the real style of Israel.

Oh dear.


Ah, "guarantees". That's all right then; via the Americans the Israelis could have complete confidence in those.

You might as well [Link only for registered members] to the whole of that article. You don't mention such things as;

On May 18, 1967, Egypt formally requested the withdrawal of UNEF from Sinai. UN Secretary-General U Thant complied, thus removing the international buffer which had existed along the Egyptian-Israeli border since 1957. Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser then began the re-militarization of the Sinai, and concentrated tanks and troops on the border with Israel

.

and

On May 22, Egypt announced that the Straits of Tiran would be closed to "all ships flying Israel flags or carrying strategic materials", with effect from May 23

and

he continued to take actions intended to increase the level of mobilization of Egypt, Syria and Jordan in order to bring unbearable pressure on Israel.

With ever increasing Arab mobilization, waiting was a luxury the Israelis could no longer afford. If they had, their defeat would have been inevitable once that mobilization was complete and those "guarantees" could conveniently be ignored by those who had given them.

First let me say one thing

I feel very disturb to see some member here always try to reply very quickly without reading properly.

Look Trumble I was in a debate to heigou
And u joins later
That’s fine

But it is ur responsibilities to read the reply what given to original debaters (heigou)

I just give reply to u as much as u wanted with hoped that u also read the original reply.

But ur comment make everyone to think I m doing mistake/confuse for not to give the whole article
real thing is u are doing mistake for not reading the other post.

pls read the post no #30

In conclusion
Israel is a terrorist country.
Bcoz It terrorize other people right violently.
Not one country affected by them quite a lot country of the world affected by them.
They have been face criticize so much past 30-40 yrs that
I believe no other country in the world of history face that much criticize

They are very harmful for the world of peace.

[SirZubair]

I pray that Allah swt guides Hezbollah (sp?) and Bani' Israel.

[i_m_tipu]

:sl:
God certainly not Love War

God also reward them
Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Hibbaan reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Whoever is killed defending his property is a martyr

whoever is killed defending himself is a martyr

whoever is killed defending his religion is a martyr

and whoever is killed defending his family is a martyr



In the commentary on this hadeeth it says: “whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed” refers to the one who defends the honour of his wife and female relatives.

[dianputri]

I pray that Allah swt guides Hezbollah (sp?) and Bani' Israel.

i only pray that ALLAH SWT only guide hezbollah not israel.

[SirZubair]

i only pray that ALLAH SWT only guide hezbollah not israel.

Subhan'allah.

I pray that Allah swt returns mercy to the hearts of the people in this Ummah.

What would the harm be if Allah swt gave Hidayat to Bani' Israel? Would it be so bad if they turned into Muslims? Even if they didn't become muslims,..would it be so bad if they stopped killing our brothers and sisters once they are guided?

With all respect sis,.. think with your mind first,then think with your heart,..

..don't ever think through Hatred.

If you are going to do that, then you have no rights to say Israel is Evil. Because you are lowering yourself to their level.

Subhan'allah.

[HeiGou]

heigou! i know know that you are a jew!!!!!!!! and all you do in this forum is to make problems and start a war in here! if you feel so strongly about what happends... then you are in the wrong war!....... the jews had a very touhg time during ww2 and i really do feel sad for them ....BUT read your torah!........... its saying that you dont have a land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you forget this??????????????? because the jewish people from the beginning of time DIDNtt listenn to GOD! your are cursed and you all know it! thats why you do all the terrible things you do...... go and fight... that would be better for you and your soul

Nennar, I assure you I am not a Jew, I have never been a Jew, I will never (I expect) become a Jew. On the other hand if you want to think of me as a Jew I am perfectly happy to be considered an Honorary Jew for the purposes of posting on LI.

What Torah? Not mine. Where does the Torah say this and what relevance does it have? Cursed? Come on now, this is not only unfair it verges on the outright anti-Semitic. Jews are no different to anyone else. They want to live in peace and get on with their lives. They have created a peaceful, prosperous and more or less democratic state. What is the alternative?

Combining two posts into one

i also want from the bottum of my heart... this forum to be for all! but someone only come into this forum , to make war not to disscuss ..... and i really dont understand what these types wants! we are seeing our sisters and brothers beeing killed... and for what?????? for the state of israel???? who do what ever they want eveyday...... they dont care about anyone other than them selves...... they are heartless uncaring humanbeeings...... i know that not all israeis are like that... but

You are seeing your Brothers and Sisters killed but in London, in Spain, in Mumbai, in Thailand, in the Philippines, in Bali, in the Sudan, in every part of the world I am seeing my Brothers and Sisters killed. And for what? Why would anyone behead three school girls in Indonesia? You are so quick to be outraged when Kafirs defend themselves. Why are you silent when kafirs die? How many of your words in the above could be said about some or all of your Brothers and Sisters?

I am not making War. I think that people want to kill me and I think I have a right to defend myself. What is wrong with that? And if it comes down to it, regardless of the many injustices commited in Israel, if an Israeli defeat only makes it more likely that I will be killed by the sort of people who are enemies of Israel, I will oppose an Israeli defeat. I never thought that Israel's fight was my fight, but it clearly is.

[جوري]

Geographically Israel should belong to the Asian group, but unsurprisingly membership was barred by the Arab states. For the record Israel was granted temporary membership of the 'Western European and others' group in 2000, which was made permanent in 2004. Since 2000 !

How are they Asian? I am not surprised Arab states banned them...Good for them being granted temporary anything.. they always have to sneak their way in by force, coercion or a dramatic reenactment on Hollywood... still they are a colonial settler state... surprised those were the only two things in the article of interest to you..... but nonetheless expected....





What lovely sense of timing! Israel was finally admitted to the International Red Cross last Thursday
Glad they can get their kids into shelter and get em goods while others receive bombs from both fronts.....

[i_m_tipu]

You are seeing your Brothers and Sisters killed but in London, in Spain, in Mumbai, in Thailand, in the Philippines, in Bali, in the Sudan, in every part of the world I am seeing my Brothers and Sisters killed. And for what? Why would anyone behead three school girls in Indonesia?

Surely some individual’s act is very shameful.
Not all of them are Muslim
Lot of kaffir involvement also there.
Surely some individual’s tiring to take advantage of critical situation

Last night I m watching BBC where Spanish Ex President explain his thought about Spain bombing.
In his explanation he said the opposition party and their beloved personal of that time were created that tragic event with using some Islamist individual.

But we should find out why/who are creating those critical situation and we should try our level best to stop those thing which are creating very critical situations and tensions.


In other words
Does it have any relation to Palestine and Israeli invades?
Does it give right to Israel to terrorize Palestine and others right?

Those tragic events happened recently.
Israel was terrorizing Palestine and others right last 30 to 40 yrs. And it had no connection to Israeli

You are so quick to be outraged when Kafirs defend themselves. Why are you silent when kafirs die? How many of your words in the above could be said about some or all of your Brothers and Sisters?

Ur comment is not right
There are lot of condemn from the member of this forum when any unlawful die was happing.

Let me remind u this is an Islamic forum, people here prefer to talk about more on Muslim /Islamic subject and their right.
Does u find any non Muslim’s forum talking for the right of Muslim?
U should post there why they are not talking for the right of Muslims

when Kafirs defend themselves

I post it earlier
Invading mean attacking
Why u call them defending

Give me a single picture that a single Muslim country is invading any Kafirs country

But I can give u huge evidence and example that
Quite a lot Muslim country facing continuing attack from Kafirs country
They are attacking Muslim country politically.
They are attacking Muslim country economically.
They are attacking Muslim country militarily.

They are attacking Muslim country physically and mentally HeiGou.

Their continuing attack to Muslims is indeed the main cause of lot of those tragic events to be happened.

Their continuing attacking/invading creating critical situation/tension which implement some very bad thing/events to be happened. Their act fueling some of the defender to think they have nothing to gain expects looses.

Some of them cannot bear the suffer/pain/great loss and chose to die. Painful isn’t it. It’s indeed painful for all sectors of the people of the world.

U should blame those who are the real mastermind.

U cannot call the survivors attacker
Attacking survivors never stop them reacting.

If u really want peace
U has do one thing first
Stop the invaders and their attacks.

Pls broad ur realization and don’t dance with their (invaders) explanation.

I am not making War.

After reading ur post; well
I m not sure what u really want 2 make

I think that people want to kill me and I think I have a right to defend myself. What is wrong with that? And if it comes down to it, regardless of the many injustices commited in Israel, if an Israeli defeat only makes it more likely that I will be killed by the sort of people who are enemies of Israel, I will oppose an Israeli defeat. I never thought that Israel's fight was my fight, but it clearly is.

The definitions defend explained.

HeiGou why u donot reply Earlier posts
do u skip that

[HeiGou]

Surely some individual’s act is very shameful.
Not all of them are Muslim
Lot of kaffir involvement also there.
Surely some individual’s tiring to take advantage of critical situation

This is precisely the problem. So many posters around here are so quick to condemn kafirs for the slightest crime but when it comes to Muslims - look what you are doing - you're blaming the kafirs. No, it is not the case that some individual's acts are very shameful. It is that an entire communities indifference, complaitency and inaction is shameful. A particular community produced those bombers and failed to teach them it was wrong. That community did not condemn those sorts of actions before the bombing or at least not clearly enough to prevent them. That community has declined to help the police to any noticeable degree and continues to live in denial. To me this is worse than the bombing.

Last night I m watching BBC where Spanish Ex President explain his thought about Spain bombing.
In his explanation he said the opposition party and their beloved personal of that time were created that tragic event with using some Islamist individual.

No he did not. He said that it was ETA - not Muslims. For which the Spanish voters punished him. Where do you find these absurd stories?

But we should find out why/who are creating those critical situation and we should try our level best to stop those thing which are creating very critical situations and tensions.

Totally. And by "we" you mean of course "the Muslim community"?

In other words
Does it have any relation to Palestine and Israeli invades?
Does it give right to Israel to terrorize Palestine and others right?

Of course here comes the blame game again. Nothing to do with Muslims. All the kafir's fault. As if I could not have guessed. It has nothing to do with Israel and even if it did, that would not justify the bombing. Your effort to shift the blame from the bombers to me is frankly appalling.

Ur comment is not right
There are lot of condemn from the member of this forum when any unlawful die was happing.

MY comment is right and no, there is not a lot of condemnation around here when such things happen. Basayev dies and people mourn him like he was a hero. Zarqawi dies and people around here cry.

Let me remind u this is an Islamic forum, people here prefer to talk about more on Muslim /Islamic subject and their right.
Does u find any non Muslim’s forum talking for the right of Muslim?
U should post there why they are not talking for the right of Muslims

And yet how Muslims relate to other people, especially via the medium of bomb vests, has an Islamic context and such things are discussed. On any non-Muslim Western forum you will find people discussing the rights of Muslims. No one in the West denies the rights of Muslims. This is the main difference between you and us kafirs - we think things are wrong if they are done to people, not just to kafirs.

Invading mean attacking
Why u call them defending

Because I am not talking about attacking, I am talking about kafirs defending themselves. No doubt to you, like to most Muslims, every time Muslims invade a non-Muslim country that is Muslim defending themselves, not kafirs doing so, but to the rest of us even kafirs have a right to self defence.

Give me a single picture that a single Muslim country is invading any Kafirs country

India. Southern Sudan. Nigeria. Dagestan.

But I can give u huge evidence and example that
Quite a lot Muslim country facing continuing attack from Kafirs country

Really? Which ones?

They are attacking Muslim country politically.
They are attacking Muslim country economically.
They are attacking Muslim country militarily.

They are attacking Muslim country physically and mentally HeiGou.

No. This too is the problem - too many Muslims have this insane paranoia about the state of the world. No one attacking that many Muslim countries in any sense of the word and when they do so they usually do so in self defence. There can be no peaceful co-existence with people who display this level of hatred. After all no one is attacking Muslims politically or economically worth mentioning.

Their continuing attack to Muslims is indeed the main cause of lot of those tragic events to be happened.

As such attacks do not exist except in the mind of some Muslims you are wrong. The problem is the hatred in the hearts of too many Muslims. Nothing to do with me at all.

Their continuing attacking/invading creating critical situation/tension which implement some very bad thing/events to be happened. Their act fueling some of the defender to think they have nothing to gain expects looses.

This is a claim I reject utterly. Again the problem is that you hate us so much you're inventing spurious claims to justify your hatred and, I assume, provoking violence.

Some of them cannot bear the suffer/pain/great loss and chose to die. Painful isn’t it. It’s indeed painful for all sectors of the people of the world.

Again it is not the suffering people who did this - it was middle class British Muslims. The problem is the hatred in parts of the Muslim community like a festering sore full of pus. Drain that poison and the problem goes away or can be solved. But nothing we kafirs can do can stop people who want to hate from hating. Justify terrorism all you like, the problem is entirely yours and not mine.

U should blame those who are the real mastermind.

U cannot call the survivors attacker
Attacking survivors never stop them reacting.

Again more blame-shifting - the fault is not mine, it is the bombers. The real masterminds are to blame - and they sit in countries like Pakistan. The survivors of 7-7 are not attackers, I agree, and you ought to stop calling them that. We, the survivors, have yet to react but if you insist on a Clash of Civilisations it will come.

If u really want peace
U has do one thing first
Stop the invaders and their attacks.

No. There is no point. The problem is irrational hatred. It exists and will exist whether there are attacks or not. The haters must be killed. There is no other way to deal with them. They have no rational motives.

[nennar]

again! heigou! you are in a wrong forum!.........

all you can do is blame muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its not the jews its notchristians...... the evil people is the muslims????????????? you are so so so so blind

[HeiGou]

again! heigou! you are in a wrong forum!.........

I have to say I am coming to agree with you although it is interesting that you think that it is wrong to force a Muslim to listen to someone who disagrees with them.

all you can do is blame muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its not the jews its notchristians...... the evil people is the muslims????????????? you are so so so so blind

I do blame Israelis for many things. I am less interested in blaming them than I used to be, but I do from time to time. When they deserve it. But it is not Jewish people who behead hostages and put the video on the internet. It is not Christians who blow themselves up on the Tube. I do not notice any kafirs around here justifying terrorism. It is not that Muslims are evil people. It is just that so many evil people are Muslims.

I am blind? Bring me an example of injustice and I will condemn it. You can't even bring yourself to condemn any Muslim for anything.

[nennar]

No So You Dont See Jews Behead People?????? No Your Are Right!..... But Sadly..... No One See Whta They Do When Then Jews Totur People ...... But Then Again Jews And Christians Are Angels.... Right?

[i_m_tipu]

This is precisely the problem. So many posters around here are so quick to condemn kafirs for the slightest crime but when it comes to Muslims - look what you are doing - you're blaming the kafirs. No, it is not the case that some individual's acts are very shameful. It is that an entire communities indifference, complaitency and inaction is shameful. A particular community produced those bombers and failed to teach them it was wrong. That community did not condemn those sorts of actions before the bombing or at least not clearly enough to prevent them. That community has declined to help the police to any noticeable degree and continues to live in denial. To me this is worse than the bombing.

U know what I m felling shame for u

we should find out why/who are creating those critical situation and we should try our level best to stop those thing which are creating very critical situations and tensions.



Their continuing attack to Muslims is indeed the main cause of lot of those tragic events to be happened.


Their continuing attacking/invading creating critical situation/tension which implement some very bad thing/events to be happened. Their act fueling some of the defender to think they have nothing to gain expects looses.

Explained
Post #56

Of course here comes the blame game again. Nothing to do with Muslims. All the kafir's fault. As if I could not have guessed. It has nothing to do with Israel and even if it did, that would not justify the bombing. Your effort to shift the blame from the bombers to me is frankly appalling.

I do not say anything to do with Muslims.
I do say nothing to do with Palestine. Pls do read carefully

No he did not. He said that it was ETA - not Muslims. For which the Spanish voters punished him. Where do you find these absurd stories?

APOLOGY
i though ETA is the name some of his Opposition party.
And i have little knowledge about Spain.

And yet how Muslims relate to other people, especially via the medium of bomb vests, has an Islamic context and such things are discussed. On any non-Muslim Western forum you will find people discussing the rights of Muslims. No one in the West denies the rights of Muslims. This is the main difference between you and us kafirs - we think things are wrong if they are done to people, not just to kafirs.

No one in the West denies the rights of Muslims
Wrong expect somebody like u

No one deny the right of west here

If this forum is bad and west forum is good
Than what r u doing here

Because I am not talking about attacking, I am talking about kafirs defending themselves. No doubt to you, like to most Muslims, every time Muslims invade a non-Muslim country that is Muslim defending themselves, not kafirs doing so, but to the rest of us even kafirs have a right to self defence.

I m felling shame for u twice now.

Israeli are invading the Palestine

we should find out why/who are creating those critical situation and we should try our level best to stop those thing which are creating very critical situations and tensions.



Their continuing attack to Muslims is indeed the main cause of lot of those tragic events to be happened.


Their continuing attacking/invading creating critical situation/tension which implement some very bad thing/events to be happened. Their act fueling some of the defender to think they have nothing to gain expects looses.

Explained

India. Southern Sudan. Nigeria. Dagestan.

I see

Really? Which ones?

Oh dear
Don’t want to comment.

No. This too is the problem - too many Muslims have this insane paranoia about the state of the world. No one attacking that many Muslim countries in any sense of the word and when they do so they usually do so in self defence. There can be no peaceful co-existence with people who display this level of hatred. After all no one is attacking Muslims politically or economically worth mentioning.

no one is attacking Muslims politically or economically worth mentioning
I m felling shame for u thrice now.
Do u heard any word like economic sanction
Do u heard any word like political sanction

Do know why Palestine authority can not getting the donating money
While their people are dieing

As such attacks do not exist except in the mind of some Muslims you are wrong. The problem is the hatred in the hearts of too many Muslims. Nothing to do with me at all.

This is a claim I reject utterly. Again the problem is that you hate us so much you're inventing spurious claims to justify your hatred and, I assume, provoking violence.

As such attacks do not exist.
That does mean there are no attacks on Muslims

Alas I published this comment in newspaper. U will be famous surely

I m very annoying with me now.

Again it is not the suffering people who did this - it was middle class British Muslims. The problem is the hatred in parts of the Muslim community like a festering sore full of pus. Drain that poison and the problem goes away or can be solved. But nothing we kafirs can do can stop people who want to hate from hating. Justify terrorism all you like, the problem is entirely yours and not mine.

u wrong and wrong again
i m not justifying anything

i m showing how those event created/Fueled.
what we never see in the past

Again more blame-shifting - the fault is not mine, it is the bombers. The real masterminds are to blame - and they sit in countries like Pakistan. The survivors of 7-7 are not attackers, I agree, and you ought to stop calling them that. We, the survivors, have yet to react but if you insist on a Clash of Civilisations it will come.

No. There is no point. The problem is irrational hatred. It exists and will exist whether there are attacks or not. The haters must be killed. There is no other way to deal with them. They have no rational motives.

Does the western face such hates from Muslim 15 yrs ago.
Ans is a big no

That is true not only Muslim but all kind of religious personal
Including their own people
Now hates some western leader and their ideology that no other can’t reach that record

But u fail to understand the creators of this hates and their ideology is indeed the master minder.

They must be stop

But Israel do receive hates many nations for 30 to 40 yrs

It is hard to amaze
Why their people are not shame enough to do something to change their thinking

Israel is a champion country



In conclusion
Regarding to ur earlier comment

I am not making War.

There is no point. The problem is irrational hatred. It exists and will exist whether there are attacks or not. The haters must be killed

I believe above 55% of the people of the world part of that side.
So they all must be Kill.

[kormath]

I don't know the actual definition of terrorism. Can any one to help me? All of us claims the others are terrorists.