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j4763
07-20-2006, 12:10 PM
Why is it that only those who worship god get into heaven?

Say you have someone who dose not worship/pray to god but throughout there life has done nothing but good and put themselves out for others.
Then you get the person who worships god but has done hardly any good deeds as the non-worshiper. And yet the believer gets into heaven! That’s a bit wrong aint it?
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07-20-2006, 12:14 PM
Peace

Not really coz Humans are created by God to worship Him...

Hold up lemme find a reference from the Qur'an...

Qur'an, Chapter 15, Verse 99
And remain worshipping your Lord till death approaches you.
Peace
Reply

j4763
07-20-2006, 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by Aalimah
Peace

Not really coz Humans are created by God to worship Him...

Hold up lemme find a reference from the Qur'an...



Peace
Then why did god create us with a mind that lets us think differently?
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lolwatever
07-20-2006, 12:19 PM
those people get their rewards in this world and find nothing in the hereafter... so they get their reputation, tax cuts and tax returns, fame and all that.. in the hereafter there's nothign for them.

secondly people who worship god go to paradise because they do good things to pleae HIM, not to 'feel godo about htsemelves' or to maek other think good fo them... that'st he difference, so we get reawrded in the hereafter for the intentions behind the actions. not only becasue fo the action itself.

as for

Then why did god create us with a mind that lets us think differently?

i think that's a topic of its own.. feel free to start another thread mroe than happy to discuss :)
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j4763
07-20-2006, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by lolwatever
those people get their rewards in this world and find nothing in the hereafter... so they get their reputation, tax cuts and tax returns, fame and all that.. in the hereafter there's nothign for them.
Nothing as is no heaven or hell, like before we were born?

secondly people who worship god go to the hereafter because they do good things to pleae HIM, not to 'feel godo about htsemelves' or to maek other think good fo them... that'st he difference, so we get reawrded in the hereafter for the intentions behind the actions. not only becasue fo the action itself.
Why does he need to be pleased?
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lolwatever
07-20-2006, 12:25 PM
oh sorry i meant no reward in hereafter, and hell is the destiny because they didn't carry out their obligatin towards him, and they had the warning flashed to them but they where stubborn and rejected.

If they genuinely did not hear the mesage then they are not punished, they're a special case tho. diff topic. i'm talking about ppl who knew full well about Islam and rjected it.

He doesn't need to be pleased, our actions don't add or subtract anything from his kingdom, we please him for our own benefit and salvation, Allah setn down laws for us to apply on planet earth for our own benefit, so the rich doesnt steel fromt he poor, the respected doesn't over ride the rights of the less-fortunate, etc etc...

so if we don't apply his laws, and commit opression on earth, and don't obey him and don't please him.. we're the only losers at the end, and he warned us about the consequences, he gave us both positive and negative re-inforcement.

all the best
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Snowflake
07-20-2006, 01:30 PM
Peace to you, j4763

Originally Posted by j4763
Why is it that only those who worship god get into heaven?

Say you have someone who dose not worship/pray to god but throughout there life has done nothing but good and put themselves out for others.
Then you get the person who worships god but has done hardly any good deeds as the non-worshiper. And yet the believer gets into heaven! That’s a bit wrong aint it?
A believer doesn't automatically get into heaven. If they have displeased God by committing sins, then they will be punished. Only, a believer will enter heaven after they have got their comeuppance. Disbelievers do get rewards for their good deeds here on earth, but they will not enter heaven.

Think of it this way. A mother expects her child to listen to her and to love and respect her. She has sacrificed her sleep, her rest and her own needs to put her child's first. Doesn't that mother have the right to expect love & respect from her child? Her child may be acting the good samaritan to the whole of mankind but if she is ignored she will feel hurt. Do you agree that shecan at least expect that much? That's jus one example to keep it short.

If a mother can expect that much, then why can't God expect to be worshipped when he has blessed us with life, with the faculties to see, hear, communicate with - and so forth. It is God who has made you capable of asking the questions you do. Ask those who are mentally retarded and they won't even understand your question. Your ability to question/seek and learn is a blessing from God. Imagine losing or not having the abilities we take for granted. Only God can give or take away what He wills.

He has filled the earth so that every need of ours in this world is provided for. He who loves us 70 times than our own mothers. He who has promised that our good deeds will not be in vain. Yes, even the disbelievers will be rewarded here on earth. Only God rewards good intentions, before even the deed is done - man will only give back what you give him, if that. But then there is the ultimate test to see if His creation acknowledges His blessings and worships Him in gratitude.

You cannot drive a vehicle without passing your driving test. You cannot get a job without fulfilling the right criteria. How easy to accept man-made laws. No boss will employ you if you are not good enough for the job. Then when our Creator, who has blessed with blessings you can sit and count all day, expects us to worship him in order to get into heaven, there is suddenly a problem? Why? After everything our Creator has given us, does He not have the right to expect to be worshipped? You can do all the good for people who at the end of the day are just as dependant on God as you are, but they cannot give you anything at the End. Then wouldn't God be displeased when man has time to please others but has forgotten Him?

Just because God didn't come down and flick the light on in your eyes to help you see, just because He didn't come and put food on your plate, do you think that these aren't His blessings? If you did anyone a favour, you expect a thanks in return. Then why shouldn't God? How do we thank, acknowledge and praise God? By worshipping Him.


Originally Posted by j4763
Then why did god create us with a mind that lets us think differently?
If God wanted, He could've created us all to worship Him and not think differently. Then where would be the test?


Originally Posted by j4763
Why does he need to be pleased?
I think I pretty much summed that up above.
Reply

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07-20-2006, 01:35 PM
If God wanted, He could've created us all to worship Him and not think differently. Then where would be the test?
I think this Verse goes best with your saying :D

[PIE] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

Qur'an, Surah 5, Verse 48[/PIE]
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Snowflake
07-20-2006, 01:36 PM
Thank you Aalimah sis! May Allah reward you. Ameen :)
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07-20-2006, 01:37 PM
You too sis...Ameen :D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-20-2006, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by j4763
Why is it that only those who worship god get into heaven?

Say you have someone who dose not worship/pray to god but throughout there life has done nothing but good and put themselves out for others.
Then you get the person who worships god but has done hardly any good deeds as the non-worshiper. And yet the believer gets into heaven! That’s a bit wrong aint it?
you cant get a degree without going through university, you cant enter heaven without worshipping the true God,
its your fault dont complain why u ended up with a low income job,
its your fault dont complain why u ended up in hell ;)
Reply

Woodrow
07-21-2006, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by j4763
Why is it that only those who worship god get into heaven?

Say you have someone who dose not worship/pray to god but throughout there life has done nothing but good and put themselves out for others.
Then you get the person who worships god but has done hardly any good deeds as the non-worshiper. And yet the believer gets into heaven! That’s a bit wrong aint it?
Us humans are just a trifle arrogant. We seem to make the assumption that because we have a concept as to what is justice and fairness, Allah(swt) must fit into the same category.

We have a rude awakening. We need to worry about fitting into what Allah(swt) believes, not try to fit Allah into our concepts.

Quite simply, we do not know nor are we capable of comprehending His (swt) thoughts. But, in his mercy he has consistently pounded his desires for us into our limited intellect, by reveal himself to the prophets. We do not know all, but we can grasp the minimum of what we need to understand.

One beauty of Allah(swt) is we are told through his word and through his actions that he is all MERCIFUL, FORGIVING, and JUST. Nobody will be wrongfully punished. We get to face the ultimate court and receive ALL that we have rightly earned, along with countless bonuses we do not deserve.

The Beauty of these promises can be found in Surah 1, Al-Fatiha

1: 1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. S P
1: 2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; S P C
1: 3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful; S P
1: 4. Master of the Day of Judgment. S P
1: 5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. S P C

1: 6. Show us the straight way, S P C
1: 7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

Those 7 little Ayahs tell us that Allah(swt) will give us all we need, he will continue to provide for us and that each of us will be treated with mercy and forgiven for all faults simply by following his path. It also tells us that he will show us the straight path. We also know from those words that our judgement for how well we follow or stray from the path will be judged with pure fairness and each person seperatly and in accordance with our own deeds and misdeeds.

With that said, we do not need to worry about the person who never had or will have the chance to know of Allah(swt), We know he/she will be treated fairly and justly. We need not know what specific rewards or punishments that person will gain or loose.

All of what is mentioned in the opening topic, Allah(swt) created, and he will do whatever his creation was intended for. This is all Allah's(swt) work. We know he will do his job, he is better at it then we are.
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azim
07-21-2006, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by j4763
Then why did god create us with a mind that lets us think differently?
The mind doesn't think differently at all. We, as humans are worshippers. Every human being on this earth is worshipping - the guided ones are the ones who worship God.

Read a love song, the lyrics reflect the sort of devotion and love we should hold for God. People worship careers, money, themselves (i.e. their egos), their homes, their leisure time. We as humans need and require an 'ilah' - a focal point of worship. And so, the eternal message God sent down to mankind is a warning away from this. There is NO thing worthy of worship (no Ilah) except for Allah.
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lolwatever
07-22-2006, 01:37 AM
^^ wow cool perspectiv mashalah

its a topic of its own i guess tho.
Reply

i_m_tipu
07-22-2006, 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by j4763
Then why did god create us with a mind that lets us think differently?
that is the only quality
what make u to call the best creature that exits

aren't we the best....

but many of us fail to be the best

bcoz of the current system of the world
what most of us follow
can't build us to be the best.
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Les_Nubian
07-27-2006, 02:06 PM
Sometimes, even though I'm a new Muslim, I think that a God who created us soley to worship "Him" must be vain! I mean, no offense to Allah or anyone else here, but when I think of how people say that "He" made us JUST to worship him, the word arrogance comes to mind.
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
Sometimes, even though I'm a new Muslim, I think that a God who created us soley to worship "Him" must be vain! I mean, no offense to Allah or anyone else here, but when I think of how people say that "He" made us JUST to worship him, the word arrogance comes to mind.
:sl:

Subhanallah, sis I understand your a revert but one should never speak of allah in this way, it's enough to take you out the fold of islam, Here's what you do, do wudo and prey two rakat and ask allah to forgive you, allah is the all mighty he gave us life and the sole reason for this is us to worship him.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-27-2006, 02:10 PM
if you created a robot to do the cooking for you but instead it just watched TV all day you wouldnt be too happy. Also you aint promising that robot NOTHING! BUT Allah is promising us Jannah, is worshipping him too much to ask for?
Reply

Fishman
07-27-2006, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by j4763
Why is it that only those who worship god get into heaven?

Say you have someone who dose not worship/pray to god but throughout there life has done nothing but good and put themselves out for others.
Then you get the person who worships god but has done hardly any good deeds as the non-worshiper. And yet the believer gets into heaven! That’s a bit wrong aint it?
:sl:
God is the only One who deserves to be worshipped, if anybody else expects to be worshipped then they are being vain and by extention commiting shirk.
:w:
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Les_Nubian
07-27-2006, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Subhanallah, sis I understand your a revert but one should never speak of allah in this way, it's enough to take you out the fold of islam, Here's what you do, do wudo and prey two rakat and ask allah to forgive you, allah is the all mighty he gave us life and the sole reason for this is us to worship him.
I'm saying that a lot of people portray God to be this big arrogant entity sittintg in the sky who says, "worship me or die". Does that really make sense? That is certainly not my view of God.

Out of the 99 names for Allah, is one of them "the arrogant"?
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 02:32 PM
:sl:

I'm saying that a lot of people portray God to be this big arrogant entity sittintg in the sky who says, "worship me or die". Does that really make sense? That is certainly not my view of God.

Out of the 99 names for Allah, is one of them "the arrogant"?
No that's not one of his names.
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Fishman
07-27-2006, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
I'm saying that a lot of people portray God to be this big arrogant entity sittintg in the sky who says, "worship me or die". Does that really make sense? That is certainly not my view of God.

Out of the 99 names for Allah, is one of them "the arrogant"?
:sl:
Please stop talking about Allah like that sister. You're questioning Allah's decision, which is NOT an good thing.

The purpose of our lives is to worship our Lord, and I'm certainly happy with that. Allah is the only One who deserves to be worshipped. Worship can mean anything, from praying, to going on Hajj, to helping others, to changing your name (to something good, such as Abdullah).
:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-27-2006, 02:44 PM
Naudhubillah, sister you must stop taking your religion so lightly, dont even let the word arrogant and God be in the same sentence. lets avoid this inshaAllah
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Duhaa
07-27-2006, 02:45 PM
Also we must understand that God does not have qualities of a human so how could He be 'arrogant'?
If you believe that God created us and He knows everything and He sees everything etc, then how can He be vain, or arrogant or any such thing? If you believe He created everything mankind and the universe and such then He is above everything and capable of anything so He has every right to be worshipped.

Of course it is important that you learn about God because I have to say sister Les_Nubian your views are not entirely islamic.
No offense intended.
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Fishman
07-27-2006, 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Duhaa
Also we must understand that God does not have qualities of a human so how could He be 'arrogant'?
If you believe that God created us and He knows everything and He sees everything etc, then how can He be vain, or arrogant or any such thing? If you believe He created everything mankind and the universe and such then He is above everything and capable of anything so He has every right to be worshipped.

Of course it is important that you learn about God because I have to say sister Les_Nubian your views are not entirely islamic.
No offense intended.
:sl:
Only a creation can be called arrogant, and Allah is not a creation.
:w:
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GARY
07-27-2006, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
You're questioning Allah's decision, which is NOT an good thing.
I beg to differ. For some people it is enough to just accept. For others, like Les_Nubian (and myself) who have nore critical, fact driven minds we need more.(remember, God gave us these minds). If we forced ourselfs to just accept, we would never truly believe with all our mind and soul. There would always be some doubt. It is a good thing to question, it is a 'must' for some of us.
I think that once those with a skeptical mind have decided, their belief would be rock solid.
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GARY
07-27-2006, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Only a creation can be called arrogant, and Allah is not a creation.
:w:
Is that a written law somewhere? Can you provide proof that only a creation can be arrogant?
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- Qatada -
07-27-2006, 03:10 PM
Hi Gary.


It's part of our belief in Allaah that the best Names belong to Him only, and these are the 99 names mentioned within the Qur'an.

You can read more about them from here:

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm


And anything negative ascribed to Allaah is rejected i.e. that He has any partners, or a son etc.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
07-27-2006, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
I'm saying that a lot of people portray God to be this big arrogant entity sittintg in the sky who says, "worship me or die". Does that really make sense? That is certainly not my view of God.

Out of the 99 names for Allah, is one of them "the arrogant"?
No it isn't. Sister... sit down and see if you can write down every single blessing and favour Allah The Most High has granted you, then tell me if it is Mankind who is arrogant. Allah needs nothing from us. We need everything from Him. There are some that curse Allah and do nothing to show thanks yet Allah still sustains them. Truly He is the Most Merciful, The Sustainor!

:wasalamex
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Ansar Al-'Adl
07-27-2006, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
Sometimes, even though I'm a new Muslim, I think that a God who created us soley to worship "Him" must be vain! I mean, no offense to Allah or anyone else here, but when I think of how people say that "He" made us JUST to worship him, the word arrogance comes to mind.
:sl:
The Islamic concept of 'Ibadah (trans. as 'worship') is far more comprehensive than what you have in mind with the english term. So when we say that God created us for His worship it is to say that God created us for loving devotion to Him and striving towards Him by performing righteous deeds so that we may come closer to Our Lord and know Him better. So our relationship with Our Creator is definitively one of love not reluctant enslavement. When we enjoin righteousness and good we are performing 'Ibadah and it allows us to strengthen our relationship with God, granting us the inner peace and tranquility that we desire as spiritual beings. When we contemplate Our Lord's infinite blessings upon us and thank Him for that we grow as individuals and are enlightened. When we are merciful to others on earth, that is worship of God and it allows us to better appreciate His mercy and so we come closer to Him. God is the only one in the universe who merits our loving devotion and worship.

:w:
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Les_Nubian
07-27-2006, 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by GARY
I beg to differ. For some people it is enough to just accept. For others, like Les_Nubian (and myself) who have nore critical, fact driven minds we need more.(remember, God gave us these minds). If we forced ourselfs to just accept, we would never truly believe with all our mind and soul. There would always be some doubt. It is a good thing to question, it is a 'must' for some of us.
I think that once those with a skeptical mind have decided, their belief would be rock solid.
Thank you for that. You know, I "accepted" Islam in my heart, because I do believe that it is an absolutely beautiful and near perfect religion, with wanting to do the will of our "creator" and all.

But I cannot just blindly accept everything without thought! Some people are like that! And you know what, I wish I was like that! I really wish that I could just "believe" in something without thinking about it...that would eliminate some of the internal confusion/struggle, but I can't do that. I can't force myself to believe every little thing without question. It wouldn't be completely sincere if I did that. And as you all say here, "Allah knows best". If this is the case, then Allah knows me better than any of you.
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Fishman
07-27-2006, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
Thank you for that. You know, I "accepted" Islam in my heart, because I do believe that it is an absolutely beautiful and near perfect religion, with wanting to do the will of our "creator" and all.

But I cannot just blindly accept everything without thought! Some people are like that! And you know what, I wish I was like that! I really wish that I could just "believe" in something without thinking about it...that would eliminate some of the internal confusion/struggle, but I can't do that. I can't force myself to believe every little thing without question. It wouldn't be completely sincere if I did that. And as you all say here, "Allah knows best". If this is the case, then Allah knows me better than any of you.
:sl:
Only near-perfect?

I think that the time for questioning and being critical is before you actually revert. Once you become a Muslim, you must clear all of your difficulties like this away and surrender yourself to Allah. I understand what it is like to be a revert, as I am one, and what I tried to do was to learn as much as I can, then take shahadah.
:w:
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Ansar Al-'Adl
07-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Les_Nubian
Thank you for that. You know, I "accepted" Islam in my heart, because I do believe that it is an absolutely beautiful and near perfect religion, with wanting to do the will of our "creator" and all.

But I cannot just blindly accept everything without thought! Some people are like that! And you know what, I wish I was like that! I really wish that I could just "believe" in something without thinking about it...that would eliminate some of the internal confusion/struggle, but I can't do that. I can't force myself to believe every little thing without question. It wouldn't be completely sincere if I did that. And as you all say here, "Allah knows best". If this is the case, then Allah knows me better than any of you.
:sl:
God does not want you to blindly accept. God wants you to use reason and thought to find the truth, this is what the Qur'an teaches!

Qur'an 34:46 Say, "I only advise you of one [thing] - that you stand for Allah, [seeking truth] in pairs and individually, and then PONDER AND REFLECT."

Qur'an 17:36 And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned.

Qur'an 47:24 Will they then not contemplate the Qur'an? Or are there locks upon (their) hearts?

If you don't understand something just ask. In Islam there is an answer for everything. The Prophet said: 'The cure for ignorance is to question.' (Sunan Abî Dawûd).

It is through using the faculties of reason and thought which God has endowed us with that we are able to find the truth.

:w:
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