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AvarAllahNoor
07-21-2006, 07:42 AM
Listed below are the muslim countries...

Bahrain
Indonesia
Iran
Jordan
Kuwait
Qatar
Kazakhstan
Oman
Saudi Arabia
Malaysia
Pakistan
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Morocco
Niger
Benin
Brunei
Burkina Faso
Cameroon
Chad
Comoros
Djibout
Egypt
Gabon
Gambia
Guinea
Guinea Bissau

Now people keep telling me about the unity of Muslims, now tell me which of these countries have intervened with what is going on in Lebanon? Do they not care, or are they afraid to defend their own kind?
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aamirsaab
07-21-2006, 07:50 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Now people keep telling me about the unity of Muslims, now tell me which of these countries have intervened with what is going on in Lebanon? Do they not care, or are they afraid to defend their own kind?
Getting involved in other people's fights is not always a wise option. As such, it often takes time for others to participate (if any do at all). Also, the countries may be waiting for the right moment.

Another possibility is that those other countries are dealing with their own problems first.

Finally, just because the entire country hasn't intervened, doesn't mean that individuals haven't (through funding perhaps)
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Woodrow
07-21-2006, 08:10 AM
Although all of those countries posted have a very large majority Muslim Population, only a handfull have an Islamic Government. Most of the countries listed are under a secular form of government. It is doubtfull the secular government would get involved in what it would view as a religious problem.
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north_malaysian
07-21-2006, 08:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Listed below are the muslim countries...

Bahrain
Indonesia
Iran
Jordan
Kuwait
Qatar
Kazakhstan
Oman
Saudi Arabia
Malaysia
Pakistan
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Morocco
Niger
Benin
Brunei
Burkina Faso
Cameroon
Chad
Comoros
Djibout
Egypt
Gabon
Gambia
Guinea
Guinea Bissau
Why there are no Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Bangladesh, Syria, Turkey, Albania, Bosnia, Algeria, Tunisia, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Senegal?

Plus Guinea Bissau, Gabon, Cameroon, Benin are non Muslim majority countries.
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AvarAllahNoor
07-21-2006, 09:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Why there are no , Tajikistan, , , , Iraq, Bangladesh, Algeria, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Senegal?
.
These are the countries that came to mind. And the ones you refer to are hardly in any situation to intervene, Unless of course they condemn it verbally!
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north_malaysian
07-21-2006, 09:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
These are the countries that came to mind. And the ones you refer to are hardly in any situation to intervene, Unless of course they condemn it verbally!
Muslim leaders just talk too much.... I dont know why? Lots of talks no action! OIC became 'Oh....I see' +o(
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Somalina
07-21-2006, 09:38 PM
~salaam~

I was shocked when i first heard this

*At the moment there is no Islamic state*

Now am not
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Trumble
07-21-2006, 09:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Although all of those countries posted have a very large majority Muslim Population, only a handfull have an Islamic Government. Most of the countries listed are under a secular form of government. It is doubtfull the secular government would get involved in what it would view as a religious problem.
What "religious problem"?! The heart of the dispute is about land, not religion.
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KAding
07-21-2006, 11:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
What "religious problem"?! The heart of the dispute is about land, not religion.
The question whether other Muslims should intervene is very much rooted in religion though. The nationalist elements in Islam are the reason why so many here believe that Muslims in, say, Bangladesh or the UK, are supposed to fight to protect their 'brothers' in Lebanon and Palestine.

So while I agree the conflict itself is largely secular, the question whether Muslims in other countries should intervene is very much religious in Islam, even if these people are not directly affected.
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Dahir
07-22-2006, 12:30 AM
Lebanon needs ANY KIND OF Unity!

I just heard on CNN that Sunnis and the Lebanese government are cooperating and helping Hezbollah fight the Israeli invasion.

I've heard that the Christian Lebanese, of Aramaic descent, will not be cooperating or supporting Hezbollah. Its sad, especially how tensions weren't present between Hezbollah and the Lebanese Christians.

Anyhow, the Muslim world, for the great part, was castrated by the U.S., most strong Muslim nations; Turkey, Pakistan, Egypt don't have a voice or the courage to speak out for ANY cause or reason, just the opinions they must give in order to recieve aid and positive media coverage.
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fou_lafine
07-22-2006, 12:54 AM
indonesia give latter for worls organisation to going to go palestine as safety n justice troop,n moslem organisation in indonesia sent mujahidah n mujahid going to the palestine.

i know because i'm from indonesian
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north_malaysian
07-24-2006, 04:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
Lebanon needs ANY KIND OF Unity!

I just heard on CNN that Sunnis and the Lebanese government are cooperating and helping Hezbollah fight the Israeli invasion.

I've heard that the Christian Lebanese, of Aramaic descent, will not be cooperating or supporting Hezbollah. Its sad, especially how tensions weren't present between Hezbollah and the Lebanese Christians.

Anyhow, the Muslim world, for the great part, was castrated by the U.S., most strong Muslim nations; Turkey, Pakistan, Egypt don't have a voice or the courage to speak out for ANY cause or reason, just the opinions they must give in order to recieve aid and positive media coverage.
Emile Lahoud is a Maronite and will send Lebanese army support Hezballah when Israeli invade Lebanon. I've heard that former Christian militia leader, Michel Aoun also will support Hezballah.

Hezballah also gained popularity among Sunnis outside Lebanon, including Malaysia.
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syilla
07-24-2006, 04:50 AM
some malaysians are there too...

helping as much as they can...
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north_malaysian
07-24-2006, 05:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
some malaysians are there too...

helping as much as they can...
is it? I thought all Malaysians had been evacuated to Syria. :rollseyes
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جوري
07-24-2006, 05:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dahir
Lebanon needs ANY KIND OF Unity!

I just heard on CNN that Sunnis and the Lebanese government are cooperating and helping Hezbollah fight the Israeli invasion.

I've heard that the Christian Lebanese, of Aramaic descent, will not be cooperating or supporting Hezbollah. Its sad, especially how tensions weren't present between Hezbollah and the Lebanese Christians.

Anyhow, the Muslim world, for the great part, was castrated by the U.S., most strong Muslim nations; Turkey, Pakistan, Egypt don't have a voice or the courage to speak out for ANY cause or reason, just the opinions they must give in order to recieve aid and positive media coverage.
In egypt there are lots of protests on the streets but anyone that opposes mubarak gets thrown in jail and faces miserable torture... well known fact egyptian prisons torture muslims worst than ones in America... people can't revolt anywhere they do their corrupt govt. imprisons them.... Mubarak undoubtedly gets aid from US which goes to expand his girth but not to aid the people.... he keeps America happy... he keeps himself happy whilst the people suffer.... once people stopped praising God and started praising the sultans it was pretty much over....
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north_malaysian
07-24-2006, 05:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
but anyone that opposes mubarak gets thrown in jail and faces miserable torture... well known fact egyptian prisons torture muslims worst than ones in America... people can't revolt anywhere they do their corrupt govt. imprisons them.... Mubarak undoubtedly gets aid from US which goes to expand his girth but not to aid the people.... he keeps America happy... he keeps himself happy whilst the people suffer.... once people stopped praising God and started praising the sultans it was pretty much over....
Just the same here....:cry:
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Skillganon
07-24-2006, 01:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
The question whether other Muslims should intervene is very much rooted in religion though. The nationalist elements in Islam are the reason why so many here believe that Muslims in, say, Bangladesh or the UK, are supposed to fight to protect their 'brothers' in Lebanon and Palestine.

So while I agree the conflict itself is largely secular, the question whether Muslims in other countries should intervene is very much religious in Islam, even if these people are not directly affected.
That's what defines muslim is that we should do the right and forbid the wrong. Our concern does just come out our deen, but the conciouseness in us, that we are brothers and sisters, and it is not base in nationality. Even if we take the view of right and wrong, it is still the same that we as shpuld help the people who are being opressed, who been driven from their home and land.

Let me give you an example. Imagine you have this beutiful house and I come and kill few of your family members, some fled in terror, and I move in. My uncle Sam who may or may not be related to me recognise it as my home although it is your home, and call you shall respect it as my home and let me live in peace in what was your home rightfully. Would you agree to that?
Reply

MusLiM 4 LiFe
07-24-2006, 01:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Why there are no Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Bangladesh, Syria, Turkey, Albania, Bosnia, Algeria, Tunisia, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, Senegal?

Plus Guinea Bissau, Gabon, Cameroon, Benin are non Muslim majority countries.

bangladesh is not a muslim country.. the majority is muslim tho..
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
07-24-2006, 01:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:


Getting involved in other people's fights is not always a wise option. As such, it often takes time for others to participate (if any do at all). Also, the countries may be waiting for the right moment.

Another possibility is that those other countries are dealing with their own problems first.

Finally, just because the entire country hasn't intervened, doesn't mean that individuals haven't (through funding perhaps)
wel sed bro..
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Skillganon
07-24-2006, 02:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
bangladesh is not a muslim country.. the majority is muslim tho..
Well, also to note bangladesh is quite poor in education way's and especially in matter's of their deen. Their is attempt by some of the so call political parties that gradually undermine the duty of muslim to educate the muslim people in the deen, by removing institute that teaches the deen forcefully, politically, financially. Only you have to look at which political parties is shaking hand with which person of foreign goverment, who has systematically tried to undermine Islam and deny it to the people only reducing it to be tought in the back closest. Trust me I am from that origin and I been to that country. They are have some racial ideology, which now day's goes uner the name of Nationality (i.e. Tradition, culture in cost of the deen) which are promoted to the ingorant mass. However their are people of great imaan in bangladesh who are trying to do their Job, and duty to allah in all onslought
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KAding
07-24-2006, 02:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skillganon
That's what defines muslim is that we should do the right and forbid the wrong. Our concern does just come out our deen, but the conciouseness in us, that we are brothers and sisters, and it is not base in nationality. Even if we take the view of right and wrong, it is still the same that we as shpuld help the people who are being opressed, who been driven from their home and land.
I wish this were true. Maybe it's indeed the theory behind Islam, I am not knowledgable enough to judge. But clearly in practise Muslims care more about Muslims than about others. Not in an effort to 'forbid the wrong', but simply because they are Muslims. People who belong to this group ('Muslims') apparently are more 'valuable' in this mindset than those that do not belong to this group. If you look at the topics on this forum it is simply undeniable that Muslims care about other Muslims suffering half a world away, but do not care about non-Muslims suffering half a world away. This is IMHO a natural, but nevertheless ethically corrupt position and it is exactly the same ill that befalls nationalism.

I believe the reason for this is exactly because of this nationalism that aims at 'uniting' all Muslims in a political and ideological unit, being the Ummah. From my perspective Islam appears very good at creating an 'us' vs. 'them' outlook on life, heck, just take the concept of 'Dar al-Islam' and 'Dar al-Harb'. Sure, it is not based on ethnicity or race, but then neither is, say, American nationalism.

Let me give you an example. Imagine you have this beutiful house and I come and kill few of your family members, some fled in terror, and I move in. My uncle Sam who may or may not be related to me recognise it as my home although it is your home, and call you shall respect it as my home and let me live in peace in what was your home rightfully. Would you agree to that?
No. But we are talking about the involvement of those who are really not affected (ie. Muslims who do not live near Israel). An illustration: Muslims did not become involved when Hutus took Tutsi homes in Rwanda. Why? Because they were not Muslims I would think, they did not belong to your 'group'. Nevermind that it is the same wrong and 'doing right' would require intervening, it still won't happen. It's the exact same reason why Americans didn't intervene in Rwanda either, for example.

So I really don't accept that the Islamic concept of 'brotherhood' is anymore valid than one based on traditional nationalism, in fact it's exactly the same.
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Skillganon
07-24-2006, 03:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I wish this were true. Maybe it's indeed the theory behind Islam, I am not knowledgable enough to judge. But clearly in practise Muslims care more about Muslims than about others. Not in an effort to 'forbid the wrong', but simply because they are Muslims. People who belong to this group ('Muslims') apparently are more 'valuable' in this mindset than those that do not belong to this group. If you look at the topics on this forum it is simply undeniable that Muslims care about other Muslims suffering half a world away, but do not care about non-Muslims suffering half a world away. This is IMHO a natural, but nevertheless ethically corrupt position and it is exactly the same ill that befalls nationalism.
Well this is not entirely correct. Their are muslim NGO and e.t.c that provide
aid towards people of other nationality and faith. The reason muslim show more concern towards those of muslim on other countries is because they been subject to oppression for a long time, most of the muslim in the u.k and even non-muslim hearts goes towards people of palestian, Iraq and other countries in the middle east, because what has been going through those land in history, another factor is because it has more coverage.
If their was not all those atrocities happening in the middle east than most of the muslim, especially the practicing ones will look towards the suffering of other people, and some do, but our resources is so much, and with nationalistic goverment promoting their tribalism to the ignorant mass.

I believe the reason for this is exactly because of this nationalism that aims at 'uniting' all Muslims in a political and ideological unit, being the Ummah. From my perspective Islam appears very good at creating an 'us' vs. 'them' outlook on life, heck, just take the concept of 'Dar al-Islam' and 'Dar al-Harb'. Sure, it is not based on ethnicity or race, but then neither is, say, American nationalism.
Note: Islam is not based on nationalism. Their is no you and us. Their is right and wrong.

Well you can argue that nationalism creates an "us" vs "them", but in Islam it is not us vs them, it is doing the right and forbidding the wrong, and it doesn't undermine the practice of other faith or freedom those so called democratic views or secular views which in fact finds element in Islam. For example education, (Islam does not prohibits science, maths e.t.c in contrary to western view, but what it prohobits is stuff like pornography, viewing women as sex object e.t.c no matter how much the western people say they don't I personally know what is the view of western men since I practically grew up with them.)


No. But we are talking about the involvement of those who are really not affected (ie. Muslims who do not live near Israel). An illustration: Muslims did not become involved when Hutus took Tutsi homes in Rwanda. Why? Because they were not Muslims I would think, they did not belong to your 'group'. Nevermind that it is the same wrong and 'doing right' would require intervening, it still won't happen. It's the exact same reason why Americans didn't intervene in Rwanda either, for example.
Well you can argue that ost muslim don't know what is going on in those land, but I did here muslim speak against those, and I know I did post concerning this topic.
Do you know what caused the Hutsies and Tutsi massacre?
Nationalism (trbalism), in some degree, even though they where practically of the same faith and even same race.
Do you know who promoted this some kind views?

So I really don't accept that the Islamic concept of 'brotherhood' is anymore valid than one based on traditional nationalism, in fact it's exactly the same.
Not really. One is unfiying, cross boundaries and imaginary lines on a map, costums e.t.c and the other is Tribalism.
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wilberhum
07-24-2006, 09:50 PM
But clearly in practise Muslims care more about Muslims than about others.
People who belong to this group ('Muslims') apparently are more 'valuable' in this mindset than those that do not belong to this group.
You noticed that too.
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