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Ghazi
07-21-2006, 02:27 PM
:sl:

A teenage boy has been given nine years detention for raping an 11-year-old girl in a supermarket toilet. But how did the police track the boy down?
The search for the youth who raped an 11-year-old girl in a supermarket toilet sparked hundreds of calls to a police incident room.

But in the end, police were helped by the fact the victim twice spotted him while she was being driven around town by her mother.

The girl, who cannot be identified, was raped in a toilet cubicle at a Sainsbury's store near Leamington Spa, Warwickshire, in March.

The victim's mother, who can only be identified as Liz, told of how her daughter twice spotted him in town in the following fortnight.

"We were in the car and she was just chatting away to me. She suddenly just stopped talking as we passed him and said 'did you see how he looked at me?'"

"I knew what she was going to say so I turned the car round but by the time we got there he had gone.

When he was arrested more than one adult in his family group said yes, I immediately thought it would be him

Det Ch Insp Adrian Pearson

"The second time she just shouted out 'there's the attacker again'. She said, 'are you going to stop the car?'"

But Liz said she just carried on driving and reported the incidents to police.

A 15-year-old boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was given nine years detention on Friday for raping the girl.

Det Ch Insp Adrian Pearson said: "I want to say how brave she has been. She played a crucial part in identifying the attacker."

He added, however, that he was sure a distinctive jacket the attacker was wearing would have helped them trace him.


The attacker was found by his distinctive jacket
The teenager, arrested on 29 March, was a very dangerous young man, the detective added.

"We discovered a range of sexual dysfunction in his background, things he had done to people in a social group or in his family circle," Mr Pearson said.

"None of it was reported to police but it points to the fact he was a very dangerous young man.

"When he was arrested more than one adult in his family group said: 'Yes, I immediately thought it would be him'.

"I make no comment about the fact that these people did not come forward to the police."

'Coolness of attacker'

A reward had been offered to encourage people to come forward, but no-one would receive it, he said.

The ferocity of the attack led Mr Pearson to assume the attacker would be an older person.

"Because of the severity of the attack and the coolness of the attacker I really thought it would be someone older and more experienced," he said.

"This person was very inexperienced which makes him more dangerous."


The girl was assaulted when she went to the store's toilet
The youngster had carried out minor sexual attacks on women both before and after the rape, but police said they did not know why he suddenly carried out a vicious attack.

"He had gone to the store to make purchases. He used the toilet and as he left he saw the victim going in.

"On the spur of the moment he decided to 'do something sexual' with her. He was suddenly prepared to rape her in a short period of time."

The girl's mother should not blame herself, he said.

"It is every parent's worse nightmare. There is nothing a parent could have done. You can't wrap children in cotton wool and how could anyone know this would happen."

'Lost trust'

Liz said she and her family were coping "day by day".

"Now, I feel angry. How can someone of 15 take a child's confidence away," she said.

"She was a bubbly, nice, active, confident girl. She had a lot of confidence and would go anywhere on her own.

"Now she is not as bubbly. I think she has lost her trust in people."

The pair still go shopping together although not as much to the Sainsbury's store where it happened.

"I do blame myself to a certain degree. I keep asking if I could have been more careful.

"I sometimes see people letting their children go to the toilet and I want to stop them," she said.

BBC NEWS

THIS IS SICK HE FORCED HIM SELF ON THE GIRL AND HE GETS NINE YEARS, HE HAS DISTROYED THE GIRLS INNOCENCE SHE'LL NEVER FORGET SUCH PEOPLE WHO BEHAVE LIKE ANIMALS SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE ANIMALS WESTERN JUSTICE LAWS ARE BARBARIC.
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------
07-21-2006, 02:29 PM
He was 15 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :omg: :omg: :omg:
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 03:52 PM
he shud be killed.
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Z
07-21-2006, 03:59 PM
Killed? Are you raving mad?

Babaric you say... what would you have given as a punishment for this then Islam-Truth?
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HeiGou
07-21-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by islam-truth
THIS IS SICK HE FORCED HIM SELF ON THE GIRL AND HE GETS NINE YEARS, HE HAS DISTROYED THE GIRLS INNOCENCE SHE'LL NEVER FORGET SUCH PEOPLE WHO BEHAVE LIKE ANIMALS SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE ANIMALS WESTERN JUSTICE LAWS ARE BARBARIC.
Look I don't mind the attack on the rapist, but you're attacking Western laws too? On what basis? Did the rape have four adult male eyewitnesses? She was old enough to be married in some countries. I think nine years sounds reasonable. If he ever serves it.
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by Z
Killed? Are you raving mad?

Babaric you say... what would you have given as a punishment for this then Islam-Truth?
thats one the possible shariah punishments for a rapist

Look I don't mind the attack on the rapist, but you're attacking Western laws too? On what basis? Did the rape have four adult male eyewitnesses? She was old enough to be married in some countries. I think nine years sounds reasonable. If he ever serves it.
whats adult males got anything to do with it? in islam a womans word wen raped is enough.

n whats the fact that shes old enough to be married got anything to do with this? im sorry but thats the dummest thing ive heard.

if ur sister or mother was raped do u think 9 years wud be enough?
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Samee
07-21-2006, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by Z
Killed? Are you raving mad?

Babaric you say... what would you have given as a punishment for this then Islam-Truth?
:sl:

People like this won't get healed. In nine years, there is a 70% chance he will do something like this again.

I'd say give him 20 years AT LEAST. He raped the girl, and he's also done things like that in the past. 9 years for that kind of crime is nothing.
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Z
07-21-2006, 04:15 PM
Death to an unmarried rapist is I'm sure not what Islam says. That is too extreme. It's not fair either.

And saying people like this don't heal doesn't do anything. It's like saying no current non-Muslim will get guidance. See? The boy is ill, sick. He's only 15. He needs help. Not be locked up in a cell for years on end.
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 04:19 PM
z, thank u for my negative rep which the msg u left for was "extremist" i suggest u look up the word extremist, wud u consider some of the things the prophet saw and his sahaba n the khalifs did as extreme?

(a)

The crimes of kidnapping, robbery and transgression of the Muslims’ sanctity by way of open and audacious hostility is a type of muhaarabah (waging war against Allaah and His Messenger) and doing mischief in the land, which deserves the punishment mentioned by Allaah in the verse in al-Maa’idah, whether that aggression is against people’s lives, wealth or honour, or it is scaring wayfarers and cutting off routes (banditry). It makes no difference whether that happens in cities, villages, the desert or the wilderness, as is the correct view of the scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them).

Ibn al-‘Arabi said, telling of the time when he was a judge: Some bandits were brought before me who had gone out to attack a group of travellers. They took a woman by force from her husband and the group of Muslims who were with him, and carried her off. Then they were hunted down, caught and brought to me. I asked one of the muftis with whom Allaah tested me about them and he said that they were not muhaaribeen, because haraabah (the crime of waging war against Allaah and His Messenger) applies only with regard to wealth, not rape! I said to them: To Allaah we belong and unto Him is our return (said by Muslims at times of calamity). Do you not know that haraabah (aggression) against honour is worse than aggression against wealth? All people would agree to lose their wealth and have it confiscated from them rather than to see aggression committed against their wives or daughters. If there were any punishment more severe than that which Allaah has mentioned, it would be for those who kidnap women. end quote.

(b)

The Council believes that in the verse in which Allaah says “The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land” the word aw (or) means that there is a choice, as is the apparent meaning of the verse. This is the view of the majority of scholars, may Allaah have mercy on them.

(c)

The majority of the Council believes that the deputies of the ruler – the judges – have the obligation to prove the type of crime and to pass judgement accordingly. If it is proven that it is a crime that constitutes war against Allaah and His Messenger (muhaarabah) and spreading mischief in the land, then they have the choice of issuing a sentence of execution, crucifixion, cutting off a hand and foot on opposite sides, or exile from the land, based on their ijtihaad and paying attention to the situation of the criminal and the circumstances of the crime, as well as its impact on society and what may best achieve the interests of Islam and the Muslims, unless the muhaarib has killed, in which case he should definitely be executed, as Ibn al-‘Arabi al-Maaliki narrated that there was consensus among the scholars on this point. Among the Hanbalis, the author of al-Insaaf said: There is no dispute on this point. End quote from a paper published by the Council of Senior Scholars under the title al-Hukm fi’l-Satw wa’l-Ikhtitaaf wa Muskiraat, p. 192-104.
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 04:21 PM
z i wonder what u think of this.

A woman who is being forced to commit zinaa [unlawful sexual activity] is obliged to defend herself and should not give in even if she kills the one who wants to do that to her. This self-defence is waajib (obligatory), and she is not at fault if she kills the one who wants to force her into zinaa. Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Hibbaan reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever is killed defending his property is a shaheed (martyr), whoever is killed defending himself is a shaheed, whoever is killed defending his religion is a shaheed, and whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed.” In the commentary on this hadeeth it says: “whoever is killed defending his family is a shaheed” refers to the one who defends the honour of his wife and female relatives.
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Dahir
07-21-2006, 04:22 PM
Well, if this is coming from England, which, from the BBC source, I presume it to be, then the sentencing seems harsh from there, but had he been in other Western nations, say, Australia or the United States, he'd be doing at least 20 years.

I say - Execution.

Give him 20 years, he'll be out of jail with a fresh thirst for women, rapists are not people that can be healed, and this is a decent sign that this one gave himself away at 15, now stop him before he gets bigger and does more damage!
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Z
07-21-2006, 04:26 PM
Dahir... what -------s are you talking about? Rapists cannot be healed? Why not? What is it about them that can't be rid of? You stupid person. Everyone can be healed. They just need help.

And Daf, on topic please.
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Abdul-Raouf
07-21-2006, 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Daffodil
he shud be killed.
yOUR CORRECT SISTER .... I SUPPORT U
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Dahir
07-21-2006, 04:41 PM
Dahir... what -------s are you talking about? Rapists cannot be healed? Why not? What is it about them that can't be rid of? You stupid person. Everyone can be healed. They just need help.

And Daf, on topic please.
Once a rapist, always a rapist. That's probably one of the few things in this world that cannot be changed.

You can look a once-convicted murderer in the eyes and see a new man, but look a rapist in the eyes, and you see vermin of the worst kind. Execution is the only answer to them.
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 05:06 PM
z, u called me an extremist because i sed he shud be killed, do u think the prophet saw is also an extremist...

During the time of the Prophet (saw) punishment was inflicted on the rapist on the solitary evidence of the woman who was raped by him. Wa'il ibn Hujr reports of an incident when a woman was raped. Later, when some people came by, she identified and accused the man of raping her. They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for Allâh has forgiven you," but of the man who had raped her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)
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Dawud_uk
07-21-2006, 05:41 PM
assalaamu alaykum,

please brother have some adhab (manners) and stop insulting your brothers and sisters with name calling. name calling is the last resort of people who are losing the argument.

from what i remember there are at least two instances i can remember of the prophet Muhammad (saws) killing the rapist, once by beheading and once by stoning.

many jurists from the salaf on down classified rape as Hiraba so sister Dafodils qoute from the Quran detailing that crime is indeed 'on-topic' and correct to be posted here.

ask yourself this simple question, is rape of a women the same as just having sex with her? or is the crime much more serious than that, if more serious why would the same punishment apply?

rape is an act of extreme violence that attacks a women's sense of dignity and worth and hence why a women can defend herself and kill such a man and no blood money is payable. it is an act of Hiraba, forced robbery and the jurists have classified that such acts are punishable by death, if they are only beheaded it is a mercy for them. it is possible they could be crucified or worse.

also, as already mentioned the word of a chaste women is enough to justify taking his life, this seems to be have been the practice of the righteous muslims down through the ages though there is a little disagreement on this.

But Salahudeen when a christian women complained to him of one of his soldiers raping her enquired whether she was chaste, when the people said yes then he had the soldier killed.

Umar had his own son killed because a women complained she had been raped by him, subhanallah look at the man's dignity when his own flesh and blood commits this terrible crime he doesnt flinch in having his own son killed for it.

so be careful who you call extremist, unless you think all of the above people mentioned in this post are extremists also?

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
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Muezzin
07-21-2006, 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by Z
Death to an unmarried rapist is I'm sure not what Islam says. That is too extreme. It's not fair either.

And saying people like this don't heal doesn't do anything. It's like saying no current non-Muslim will get guidance. See? The boy is ill, sick. He's only 15. He needs help. Not be locked up in a cell for years on end.
I agree.

As tragic as this case is, I think the first post is placing the blame in the wrong place. The law didn't commit the crime, this twisted teenager did. In the long run, this guy needs to be rehabilitated so that he does not reoffend.

Another thing to bear in mind before we all go nuts over headlines is that we do not have access to the evidence of any given case. Have any of us ever met the girl? Have any of us met the boy for that matter? Have any of us read his psychiatric report? Each case is unique and must be considered as such.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-21-2006, 06:04 PM
Whats wrong with half you people out there? This makes it clear cut that western law is at a great fault ! How can you deny that this boy is nothing short of ruthlessly evil and just sick who deserves to be IF NOT IMPRISONED TO GUANTANAMO BAY FOR LIFE " AT LEAST " Killed !


THE WESTERN WAYS HAVE DEVOURED YOUR MINDS INTO BECOMING SO LENIANT ON SUCH A SICK ATTACK!! LOOK AT YOURSELF!!!
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-21-2006, 06:07 PM
Oh and:

1. Whats the islamic punishment for rape?

2. Was an age restriction given?

3. Do you think you have the authority to input an age restriction?

4. Isnt rape the same no matter what the age of the person is?
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Muezzin
07-21-2006, 06:09 PM
If he gets twenty years with these psychiatric problems, he'll just come out and reoffend and nobody's happy. That or he'll rape the poor sap in the communal showers who forgot his soap on the rope.

The fact is, we do not have Sharia law in the UK. If we did, the outcome of this case may indeed have been different. But what will all this fuss and hulaballoo do? Why not take some positive action to make sure what you deem an unsatisfactory result does not happen again? Write to your MP or something, that's what they're there for. The fact remains, the UK's laws are not based on Sharia. This case is indeed tragic. There has always been tragedy. There will always be. Even Sharia will not eliminate crime completely, it will just deal with it differently. Evil is a fact of life.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, since it doesn't look like Britain will be using Sharia law any time soon, if a British citizen would prefer this system of law, then that citizen would be advised to move to a country which implements it.
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root
07-21-2006, 06:12 PM
I am very pleased that I live in the UK where we do not have a death penalty.

I have heard many bad tones in this thread and would ask, under Islamic law can a wife bring a charge of rape against her husband?
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-21-2006, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by root
I have heard many bad tones in this thread and would ask, under Islamic law can a wife bring a charge of rape against her husband?
good question, weird question nonetheless but good.

How bout making a thread on it sir :)
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 07:17 PM
Whats wrong with half you people out there? This makes it clear cut that western law is at a great fault ! How can you deny that this boy is nothing short of ruthlessly evil and just sick who deserves to be IF NOT IMPRISONED TO GUANTANAMO BAY FOR LIFE " AT LEAST " Killed !


THE WESTERN WAYS HAVE DEVOURED YOUR MINDS INTO BECOMING SO LENIANT ON SUCH A SICK ATTACK!! LOOK AT YOURSELF!!!
exactly.

1. Whats the islamic punishment for rape?
read mine and bro dawuds posts.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-21-2006, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Daffodil

read mine and bro dawuds posts.
nono i kno wat it is, i was sayin it 2 the others
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 07:42 PM
isnt majid one of Allahs names, if so how comes uve not got it as abd majid.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-21-2006, 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by Daffodil
isnt majid one of Allahs names, if so how comes uve not got it as abd majid.
yes "MAJID" is one of Allahs names, however, "MAJED" is not, Majed is just a bengali name :-\
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Daffodil
07-21-2006, 07:45 PM
ok, but it still sounds the same, sorry for going off topic.
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Dahir
07-21-2006, 11:52 PM
[MAD]GIVE HIM THE ELECTRIC CHAIR!!:Evil: :mad: :raging: :phew :enough!: [/MAD]

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Ghazi
07-21-2006, 11:55 PM
:sl:

I'm shocked at some of the comments here do you know better then the prophet such laws are put in place cause the kufar don't know the meaning of justice, Rape is a serious thing if a person rapes another person he should be killed but since we don't a sharia I hope they give people life in a cell with no contact with anyone.
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Dahir
07-22-2006, 12:00 AM
I'm shocked at some of the comments here do you know better then the prophet such laws are put in place cause the kufar don't know the meaning of justice, Rape is a serious thing if a person rapes another person he should be killed but since we don't a sharia I hope they give people life in a cell with no contact with anyone.

[MAD]I DEMAND A FIRING SQUAD!!![/MAD]

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Ghazi
07-22-2006, 12:03 AM
:sl:

Wallahi this case has me so angery, I have a sister this age and being honest if that was my sister he wouldn't have made it to court alive.
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snakelegs
07-22-2006, 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
it is an act of Hiraba, forced robbery and the jurists have classified that such acts are punishable by death, if they are only beheaded it is a mercy for them. it is possible they could be crucified or worse.
i didn't know crucifixion was ever done in islam - is that true?
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Dahir
07-22-2006, 04:03 AM
and i gave u good reps, are u feeling ok? 16.58%, ok you must be doing some math over there. Shes a child, he was already 15, which is old enough to father a child, i say shes not to blame
When I was in Middle School, between my 11-13 years, about 3 or 4 of my homeroom classmates were pregnant, these were 11, 12, 13 year old girls, what makes you think this little missy isn't one of them??

Where these "Little Offenders" so innocent?


Little Criminals

Little Soldiers

Juvenile Criminals

Why? Because of This!
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Looking4Peace
07-22-2006, 04:05 AM
U must have something against females, the truth is most rappists are from the male species, sorry to bust your bubble and yes i know some young girls get pregnant but in most cases it was boys or even older men who took advantage of them, i grew up in the ghetto, i know the deal, 12 yr old girl knocked up by 20 yr old guy, dont tell me any different, and i doubt the 12 yr old raped the guy and got pregnant, come on now.
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Dahir
07-22-2006, 04:08 AM
U must have something against females, the truth is most rappists are from the male species, sorry to bust your bubble and yes i know some young girls get pregnant but in most cases it was boys or even older men who took advantage of them, i grew up in the ghetto, i know the deal, 12 yr old girl knocked up by 20 yr old guy, dont tell me any different, and i doubt the 12 yr old raped the guy and got pregnant, come on now.
Everyone grew up in the ghetto :D , but that doesn't mean they have any more wisdom, however, your points are well taken.

Remember, 98% of rape cases are by men, but this could be that 2% that we have been ignoring!
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Woodrow
07-22-2006, 09:03 AM
May we have this thread return to the topic. Right now I am begining to feel it is going off topic and rapidaly becoming bait for some body to post out of anger.
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Woodrow
07-22-2006, 09:12 AM
Let us all discuss the topic, not ruin a thread
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limitless
07-22-2006, 01:18 PM
:sl:

Oh man, that is so sad. Very sad indeed. But nine years is certainly not enough. Western laws are unjust. If it was a muslim teen boy I bet they would have killed him on spot, or if he was not white. I do not know of Britian or USA sexual assualt offenders, but in Canada it is very VERY strict. Any male in Canada will be sentenced for life time jail. There are no execuations in Canada because every human life should be protected despite their crime. The boy should be sentenced to life in prison, he won't change after nine years, he just won't and I am writing this from someone I knew very well, close. He had raped a girl at age of 14, and back then I was very little did not comprehend the guy's crime, till I turned 16. I just feel very guilt and as if I should have been in jail because of the person I am writing about was very close to me and other family members of mine, whom I can not identitfy at all. Why do these selfish males excert their desire, why can't they do it the lawful way, get married. Even the girlfriend type of relation results in rape, I know a friend of mine. Her sister's boyfriend raped her and now the consequence is she is pregnant, and can not abort, it might threaten her life. The laws should be strict whether it is in West or East, it happens everywhere. East the laws probably do not exist or if they do, then the criminal is not brought up to be trailed or even punished. The governments should take this matter seriously as these attacks are increasing and spreading throughout ever type of male slowly.

:w:
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Muezzin
07-22-2006, 09:03 PM
Okay, we've really strayed from the topic here. Let's stick to what was being discussed in the first post, please.
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czgibson
07-22-2006, 09:07 PM
Greetings,

Of course, it's a horrific crime, and we can all have opinions about the suitability of the punishment issued.

However, I'm absolutely stunned by the amount of violent thoughts this thread has given rise to.

Why don't we just kill all criminals, and then there'd be no more crime?!

Peace
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-22-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Of course, it's a horrific crime, and we can all have opinions about the suitability of the punishment issued.

However, I'm absolutely stunned by the amount of violent thoughts this thread has given rise to.

Why don't we just kill all criminals, and then there'd be no more crime?!

Peace
no we only kill rapists/adulterers/murderers unless blood money is paid. we can also stone fornicators i think, cut off the hands of thieves.

so think about a perfect world without crime, isnt it something you would like>
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Muezzin
07-22-2006, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by Majed
no we only kill rapists/adulterers/murderers unless blood money is paid. we can also stone fornicators i think, cut off the hands of thieves.

so think about a perfect world without crime, isnt it something you would like>
There is no perfect world without crime, and there never will be. The only way we could possibly have that is if we had both a social and biological eutopia, and everyone goes fruit loops over the latter unless they have fascist leanings.

So let's just get back to the topic, eh? :)
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01-28-2008, 01:36 PM
:salamext:

*BUMP

That's horrible and disgusting.
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krypton6
01-28-2008, 02:06 PM
If sharia existed, and Islamic ruling existed there, this would never have taken place.
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tomtomsmom
01-28-2008, 02:38 PM
What is the point of bumping such an old thread?
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guyabano
01-28-2008, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by krypton6
If sharia existed, and Islamic ruling existed there, this would never have taken place.
oh yes. We all know, what happen under sharia law.
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