format_quote Originally Posted by
Duncan
How do I know it's Gods will that the Jews posses Israel? Well, I don't, but then neither do you. I deal with reality, I deal with what is, not what I want it to be, or what I think it should be. Why is it that when something happens muslims say 'It's Gods will', but in regard to the Jews it is not.
You're confusing the future with what has already come about. As you said, neither you nor I can speak with certainty about what God's will is for the future. But on one hand there is the fact that the Israeli occupation has occured (which every Muslim believes happened according to God's will) and on the other hand there is the remaining question, "What are we going to do about it?" We have already agreed that it was only by God's will that any event - including the Israeli occupation - occured. Yes, it was God's will that the Isreali occupation would occur. No, it was not God's will that the Muslims shut up and do nothing about it.
I am sitting here trying to think of a nice way to answer your 'Robber' analogy without building a straw/man of my own, but we are not talking about a bank robber, are we? The robber is of course representing the Israelies, but if I apply that logic to, say 9/11, then all of Islam is the enemy, and I am compeled to fight you forever. Not a good plan if you ask me.
First of all, you have taken what was an analogy for a theological question and applied it to a political one. Secondly, you have erroneously claimed that utilising the same analogy, Islam would be to blame for 9/11.
Excuse me?? When did I say that Judaism was to be blamed for injustices committed by the Israeli government? When did I even talk about injustices comitted by the Israeli government?!? Clearly you are not following the discussion very well.
You say:
So God has legislated for us to enjoin rightousness and forbid evil and injustice (can't find how to make the quote on this board)
And just who is it that gets to be the judge, and jury in forbidding evil and injustice, you, the whole of the islamic world? Who is it that gets to determine right from wrong?
God. For that purpose He has revealed to humanity a complete system of laws by which to follow. This is in response to your general theological question. If you still have Israel and the political situation in mind then what is right and what is wrong is clearly recognizable to every human being. If you want to discuss the right and the wrong with regard to the state of Israel, the world affairs section is the appropriate section for that.
Just for the record, and it is not my wish to offen you, but God doesn't want you to do anything. It gave you a free will, and reason. Nothing more, use it.
I do not believe in a foolish or wicked God who aimlessly created humanity and then neglected it to eternal chaos and confusion. No, God has indeed given us free will and the ability to reason and He intends us to use it to follow the divine laws in enjoining righteousness and forbidding evil and suffering. Whosoever does that will be rewarded in the next life, and whosoever opposes that will recieve a just penalty.
I'm not interested in the political comments for now; that can be saved for the world affairs section.