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Dahir
07-23-2006, 02:18 AM
Have you ever wondered why nice guys ALWAYS finish last, at least on Earth, most definately not the hereafter.

Why?

Why does society have so much loving respect and unmatched fear of the "bad boys."

Even our superheroes, batman and superman, do their "good deeds" through ferociously violent acts.

Well-accomplished "good guys" like Bill Gates are passed off as "tame" and "nerdy" whilst the far less-accomplished serial murderers (Jeffrey Dahmer, "BTK," Charles Manson) are given iconic status in the hearts of the youth and our less-to-say, trash culture.

Why do people pass off "good" as being tame or weak?

This is a big question that's gotten me terribly frustrated at times and has even become a theme in my daily life.

Here's a scenario:


There was a lonely guy in my fitness class, seemed like a quiet, tame kind of guy, I fealt a bit sorry for him, so I talked to him a few times. After 3 or so weeks, he started wising up to me. I got sick of his show-offy ways so I pushed him into a wall and had a few words with him in a dark corner, and from that day on he hasn't said a wise word to anyone, let alone myself.

Is anyone else fed up with this system of "respect?"
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Gaf_G
07-23-2006, 09:59 AM
that guy needs a nice mug of Chaa (pakistani tea)
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Ghazi
07-23-2006, 10:50 AM
:sl:

It's not about being a badboy, it's confidence these guys have bucket loads of it, you could be the nicest guy in the world just show confidence.
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Dahir
07-23-2006, 07:15 PM
It's not about being a badboy, it's confidence these guys have bucket loads of it, you could be the nicest guy in the world just show confidence.
Confidence? Everytime a "good guy" shows confidence its passed off as arrogance. A world of double standards.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-23-2006, 09:48 PM
bro seriously, this is so minor :-\
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Dahir
07-23-2006, 10:52 PM
bro seriously, this is so minor
I know, but everywhere I go, its IN MY FACE! Its like a plague of sorts, and being a good guy doesn't carry merit anymore.
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Helena
07-23-2006, 11:32 PM
wallahi..dnt mean to be rude..... totally dnt understand this thread....or is it the time..lol

can u explain it again...inshalah
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 12:46 AM
wallahi..dnt mean to be rude..... totally dnt understand this thread....or is it the time..lol

can u explain it again...inshalah
Must be my English, I speak 'Murkin! :D

The thread is about all my frustration towards the societal reputation system.

EXAMPLE:

Good guys are passed of as weak, tame, inconfident, and otherwise useless.

"Bad Boys" are treated like royalty; they get everything they desire just because of the "bad boy" image.

I hope that makes it easier :D
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Joe98
07-24-2006, 02:16 AM
He might have thought you were coming onto him!

And it was you who pushed him!
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mlsh27
07-24-2006, 02:43 AM
OK, you must never watch chick flicks because the nice guys always win the girl in the end. Sadly, these movies shape how women look for a man. For example, the women are shown that bad boys do not make good mates, but good guys, while not as tempting, make so much better partners. Also, Bill Gates is an icon and is more widely recognized around the world than the aforementioned serial killers. Yes, some girls are more readily attracted to bad boys, but there are many, many more who like the nerds and geeks. In fact, after Napoleon Dynamite came out, being a nerd and liking a nerd were and still are popular.
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 02:51 AM
OK, you must never watch chick flicks because the nice guys always win the girl in the end.
That is far from reality. My school, like many, is picking up a trend that is popular in Europe; see, a year ago, jocks were the life of my school, now, its the band members who are at the spotlight. That's bad, because this year, I inched closer to making Varsity in Baseball! :offended:

But its not just my unimportant situation, its society in general. This backward way will wear off, hopefully, but its been gaining steam ever since it was popularized by Western culture and the "roaring '20's."
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mlsh27
07-24-2006, 02:56 AM
I think you have a skewed view of reality...you can't run your life by cliches...
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 03:02 AM
I think you have a skewed view of reality...you can't run your life by cliches...
So I'm not real?

I seriously live my life through a corrupt and changing scope! Oooooh! Its the material culture that's ruining me, I have to get out of America, NOW!!!! :grumbling
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Djinn
07-24-2006, 03:15 AM
:sl:

Society admires things they can not be in their own lives. So they admire people, either in life or in movies, that represent a status or way of life that normally ordinary people could not become or afford to become without the consequences or the work needed to achieve it. Why do you think celebrities are so popular and why a lot of people are interested in thier personal lives? Thus, people admire 'bad guys' because they represent confidence and control, attributes that it was found that ordinary people often lacked. Everybody can become a 'nice guy' but not everyone can become a 'bad guy' without the consequences of that choice. So that is why it is appealing to ordinary people since most can't aspire to become a 'bad guy' and get away with it. Don't confuse the notion as 'bad guy' being evil, movies depicts 'bad guys' as essentially 'good guys' but do not respect rules or anybody.

Another thing, a lot of girls in the Western societies are naive, and think 'bad guys' as sexy, in control and cool...Until they get beaten or treated as female dogs. Regretable but I figure it is lesson they must learn on their own.

:w:
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mlsh27
07-24-2006, 03:15 AM
Maybe you finish last because you are a little too dramatic and cocky from what I have read by you.
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 03:57 AM
Maybe you finish last because you are a little too dramatic and cocky from what I have read by you.
Cocky? Its impossible to be cocky and dramatic at the same time, its like exuding confidence in the field of depression...it doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever:? :rollseyes
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mlsh27
07-24-2006, 04:15 AM
Dramatic does not equal depression, so yes, one can be both cocky and dramatic.
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 04:16 AM
Dramatic does not equal depression, so yes, one can be both cocky and dramatic.
Don't hate me because I double task! :D
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mlsh27
07-24-2006, 04:19 AM
I never said I hated you, but I do think you are a jerk/too sarcastic by your posts.
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Djinn
07-24-2006, 04:22 AM
Originally Posted by Dahir
Don't hate me because I double task? :D
lol!!:giggling:

I'm laughing but we should cut down on the insults.
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 04:25 AM
I'm laughing but we should cut down on the insults.
I'm sorry, but I'm a sucker for jabs, I always throw in a good joke when I see a good opportunity, sorry mlsh27, its just how I am. :D


I never said I hated you, but I do think you are a jerk/too sarcastic by your posts.
I'm a part-time aspiring comedian-wannabe on the side. :D
Reply

Safa
07-24-2006, 04:25 AM
:sl:

You don't seem like the nice guy, judging from that little scenario there but then again I'm in no position to judge.

Nice guys do have a place in society, it's just not in the eyes of the majority.

There's always someone out there who'll respect you for who you are but you won't know it yourself.

Like someone earlier said, it's the bad guys that everyone admires for whatever attribute but that doesn't mean the nice guys fall behind, they'll have their moments of popularity/fame I suppose in some way.

:w:
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 04:29 AM
You don't seem like the nice guy, judging from that little scenario there but then again I'm in no position to judge.

Nice guys do have a place in society, it's just not in the eyes of the majority.

There's always someone out there who'll respect you for who you are but you won't know it yourself.

Like someone earlier said, it's the bad guys that everyone admires for whatever attribute but that doesn't mean the nice guys fall behind, they'll have their moments of popularity/fame I suppose in some way.
Which SCENARIO? :?
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Safa
07-24-2006, 04:32 AM
Originally Posted by Dahir

Here's a scenario:

There was a lonely guy in my fitness class, seemed like a quiet, tame kind of guy, I fealt a bit sorry for him, so I talked to him a few times. After 3 or so weeks, he started wising up to me. I got sick of his show-offy ways so I pushed him into a wall and had a few words with him in a dark corner, and from that day on he hasn't said a wise word to anyone, let alone myself.
This one.
Reply

Djinn
07-24-2006, 04:44 AM
LOL!!! This is too funny! That what happens when we get a tiny bit off-topic.
Reply

Dahir
07-24-2006, 04:48 AM
There was a lonely guy in my fitness class, seemed like a quiet, tame kind of guy, I fealt a bit sorry for him, so I talked to him a few times. After 3 or so weeks, he started wising up to me. I got sick of his show-offy ways so I pushed him into a wall and had a few words with him in a dark corner, and from that day on he hasn't said a wise word to anyone, let alone myself.
That "lonely guy" didn't mess with me when I was isolated, cool, hip, bad boy Dahir, but when I got nice and opened up to him, and introduced him to my friends, he got a cocky attitude and turned on ME. I WAS THE GOOD GUY, he was a LONER WHO PUSHED HIS LUCK because he THOUGHT I WAS a "good guy!!!!"

Don't you get it, when I showed him my "good side" he turned on my and fealt I was weak and he was powerful, so I got real with him and pointed to him the reality, I did him a major favor!
Reply

_salam_
07-24-2006, 04:51 AM
So pushing someone and calling them names is the right response? From how your scenario is worded, you definitely seem like the bad guy.
Reply

sweetbanana86
07-24-2006, 04:54 AM
why is this post still going on, can some moderator please close it, nice guy this , nice guy that, the prophet was a very nice guy and do you think he finish last, uh no, i don't think so, close this thread
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 05:01 AM
So pushing someone and calling them names is the right response? From how your scenario is worded, you definitely seem like the bad guy.
No. I did not call him names. And the moral of the story is that the guy had no respect for me in my original, "good guy" state. But when I wised up and awoke him to the harsh reality, he had respect for me, that's the moral of the story!!


why is this post still going on, can some moderator please close it, nice guy this , nice guy that, the prophet was a very nice guy and do you think he finish last, uh no, i don't think so, close this thread
Oh, the mods have closed enough of my threads, they fealt sorry for me so this one's going to stay! :D
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Djinn
07-24-2006, 05:02 AM
Originally Posted by Dahir
That "lonely guy" didn't mess with me when I was isolated, cool, hip, bad boy Dahir, but when I got nice and opened up to him, and introduced him to my friends, he got a cocky attitude and turned on ME. I WAS THE GOOD GUY, he was a LONER WHO PUSHED HIS LUCK because he THOUGHT I WAS a "good guy!!!!"

Don't you get it, when I showed him my "good side" he turned on my and fealt I was weak and he was powerful, so I got real with him and pointed to him the reality, I did him a major favor!

:sl:

You do know power and the feeling of being powerful corrupts no matter on which side, good or bad, you are on. So when the weak undermines a tyrant to be powerful himself, he becomes what he despises, he becomes another tyrant.

:w:
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Dahir
07-24-2006, 05:06 AM
You do know power and the feeling of being powerful corrupts no matter on which side, good or bad, you are on. So when the weak undermines a tyrant to be powerful himself, he becomes what he despises, he becomes another tyrant.
So my fitness class is like a scale model of our World? :D
Reply

sweetbanana86
07-24-2006, 05:07 AM
okay but tell me this, how will this make us as a community grow, or how will this make you grow as a person, i am pretty sure after all the comments you recieve you will not change as a person
Reply

Dahir
07-24-2006, 05:14 AM
okay but tell me this, how will this make us as a community grow, or how will this make you grow as a person, i am pretty sure after all the comments you recieve you will not change as a person
I know.

This thread is designated for whining and crying.

You come to this thread, you relate to the subject, you whine just like I'm doing, and you leave sappier and more connected towards this general issue.

Think of this as an Episode of Dr. Phil. We come, we cry, we complain, we whine, we go home taking life lessons from a sappy bald guy from Oklahoma who refers to himself as a doctor despite only having a Bachelor's degree.

Have I given you a complete analysis of this Thread?
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Djinn
07-24-2006, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by Dahir
So my fitness class is like a scale model of our World? :D
:sl:

:giggling:

Everything one does, regardless of his or her location, can affect his or her neighbor, and/or community no matter how small or how big the gesture is.
What you have done in the gym could have relatively lasting effects to you (you posting the problem in the forum) and to the person (might be more shy than ever), even when you are no longer in that location.

:w:

PS: I guess I'm that Dr.Phil (plus the hair) :)
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sweetbanana86
07-24-2006, 05:19 AM
can someone get this person a tissue,
Reply

ABWAN
07-24-2006, 05:29 AM
Originally Posted by Dahir;415265
[U
Here's a scenario:[/U][/B]

There was a lonely guy in my fitness class, seemed like a quiet, tame kind of guy, I fealt a bit sorry for him, so I talked to him a few times. After 3 or so weeks, he started wising up to me. I got sick of his show-offy ways so I pushed him into a wall and had a few words with him in a dark corner, and from that day on he hasn't said a wise word to anyone, let alone myself.
I don't seem to grasp the link between the topic title and all your messages here.

Which nice guy are we talking about here? You met someone you consider as a 'bad guy' and you got him back in the end. Wouldn't that make you a bad guy in this context as well?

So which nice guy finished last?


But on a second look, it seems you have the answers you are looking for in your own message:

Why does society have so much loving respect and unmatched fear of the "bad boys."
And the reason for the fear is, as you had mentioned, FEAR. People in general tend to be afraid of Bad people/influence.

Well-accomplished "good guys" like Bill Gates are passed off as "tame" and "nerdy" whilst the far less-accomplished serial murderers (Jeffrey Dahmer, "BTK," Charles Manson) are given iconic status in the hearts of the youth and our less-to-say, trash culture.
"Thrash Culture" or whatever could perhaps be the reason?

Is anyone else fed up with this system of "respect?"
Not me. I, like many others, just preferred to stay out of the "System".
Reply

Dahir
07-24-2006, 06:16 AM
can someone get this person a tissue,
You sound hostile, should I buy you a rifle?
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-24-2006, 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
I know, but everywhere I go, its IN MY FACE! Its like a plague of sorts, and being a good guy doesn't carry merit anymore.
it doesnt if u want comfort in the dunya, it does if u want comfort in the akhirah :)
Reply

Muezzin
07-24-2006, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
Even our superheroes, batman and superman, do their "good deeds" through ferociously violent acts.
Batman, yes. Superman, no. Batman is supposed to be a darker character, and Superman is supposed to be a 'Boy Scout'. So, Superman is one of those rare characters that actually doesn't finish last for being a nice guy. On the other hand, some don't like reading or watching stories about him since he's 'too perfect'. Go figure.

Also, whatever you do, don't go all angsty about 'oh, I'm so good and people still hate me!' It's not constructive. Do good, behave well, follow the Sunnah. If others can't appreciate you for being a good person, that's their loss, not your problem.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-24-2006, 03:45 PM
some don't like reading or watching stories about him since he's 'too perfect'
:haha:

not really, lol its mainly coz he wears his underwear outside his trousers :heated:


batman is the best :)
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Hijaabi22
07-24-2006, 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir

Good guys are passed of as weak, tame, inconfident, and otherwise useless.

"Bad Boys" are treated like royalty; they get everything they desire just because of the "bad boy" image.
[/B]
wat makes u think that tho? If U put up a poll askin peoples opinions maybe that wudda helped but personally I think the bad boys are jus wannabes tryna be sumat they not and failin miserably while they at it and the gud guys are the ones who earn MY respect...and wat u mean by they get everythin they desire?? like wat? girls? :rollseyes
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-24-2006, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by -----------
the gud guys are the ones who earn MY respect...
:thumbs_up
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- Qatada -
07-24-2006, 04:00 PM
:salamext:


I've noticed this within life too bro, but i'll tell you something surprising - this has been the same since the time of Aadam (peace be upon him.)

Just go back in history and you'll see how the one who is evil - is respected more due to people having fear of him and because he is the most arrogant. Think of Pharoah, abu jahl, abu lahab, even go all the way back to think of Habil and Kabil (the sons of Aadam) and the one who killed the other was the one who wanted the more good looking girl.


I was thinking about it once, and there are two types of respects in this world & both come from Allaah Almighty, but there conclusions are different:


The first type of respect is

People gain respect in the dunya (world) by doing the most evil of deeds, you can imagine this in the mafia - and how the 'godfather' is the one who has the most killings + more respect etc. But Allaah Almighty keeps raising this persons respect and power to see if this person will abuse that power, and the majority of the world feel that this is the only way.. but the worser the person - the deeper they may end up in hellfire.


The other type of respect is the good respect, and this is mainly given to the prophets and messengers of Allaah Almighty. It is given through their good deeds, and Allaah Almighty gives the person power and authority i.e. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Abu Bakr, 'Umar, Uthman, Ali (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with them) etc. This respect that they gain from Allaah Almighty - they use it to enjoin more good and to gain more reward from Allaah azawajal.

This is the respect we should be striving for insha'Allaah, so we can gain more reward for the hereafter insha'Allaah (God willing.)


The majority of the world has fallen into the trap of the evil form of respect, but the more evil they do with that - the deeper they may end up in hellfire.

Whereas the other form of respect helps a muslim to gain more reward, by enjoining more good and using that respect to influence people to do more better to please Allaah Almighty. This is what we aim for insha'Allaahu ta'aala.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


:wasalamex
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