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Malaikah
07-23-2006, 10:05 AM
:sl:

Does anyone know anything about the authenticity of the claims that the city of Petra in Jordan is the location of the people of 'Ad and Thamud?

This is what part of it looks like:

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Gaf_G
07-23-2006, 10:09 AM
"i dunno he didnt said" thats just somethin i remembered from some audio clip i heard once long ago
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Malaikah
07-23-2006, 10:09 AM
:sl:

huh??
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lolwatever
07-23-2006, 10:15 AM
salam

The people of Thamud were Arabs who lived a couple of hundred years after the Prophet Noah PBUH in a place called Hijr which today is known as Madaain Salih in the North of Arabia near Tabuk. Blessed in provisions and livelihoods their land was fertile with green gardens and running springs and they skilfully carved spacious houses out of mountains. They were ungrateful to Allah as they worshiped the stone idols they carved with their very own hands
http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html
Jordan isn't in north arabia is it? more like north west?

salams

ps: they are MASSIVE structures man i never seen that.. thnx 4 the pic..
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Malaikah
07-23-2006, 11:04 AM
:sl:

The two sites are related though:

Madain Salih is the modern name of ancient Hegra, one of the most important Nabataean sites after the capital, Petra.
Source

I cant seem to find anything convincing though.. like how are the two sites related?

Yes they are massive, and if that is truly the real site (which it most likely is), its not something to hold in awe, its a horrible reminder of the arrogance of these people which lead to their terrible fate...
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- Qatada -
07-23-2006, 11:38 AM
:salamext:


But what about this pic? Theres a location called Thamud within yemen? near the top right.


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- Qatada -
07-23-2006, 11:39 AM



:wasalamex


On their way to Tabuk, the army of Islam passed by Al-Hijr — which was the native land of Thamud who cut out (huge) rocks in the valley; that is “Al-Qura Valley” of today. They watered from its well but later the Messenger of Allâh (peace be upon him) told them not to drink of that water, nor perform the ablution with it. The dough they made, he asked them to feed their camels with. He forbade them to eat anything whatsoever of it. As an alternative he told them to water from that well which Prophet Salih’s she-camel used to water from.

On the authority of Ibn ‘Umar: “Upon passing by Al-Hijr the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

“Do not enter the houses of those who erred themselves lest what had happened to them would afflict you, but if you had to do such a thing let it be associated with weeping.”

Then he raised his head up and accelerated his strides till he passed the valley out.”

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is saying that if you want to visit the nations of the previous people that Allaah Almighty destroyed (for example: pharoah's pyramids etc.), then you should only go there and cry. Otherwise, you should watch out because Allaah Almighty could destroy you, like Allaah destroyed the nations before.


But it is a form of worship to visit them places to reflect upon it and to see Allaah's signs.


So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). [Sura16 An-Nahl, Ayat 36]

See they not how many of those before them We did destroy?- generations We had established on the earth, in strength such as We have not given to you - for whom We poured out rain from the skies in abundance, and gave (fertile) streams flowing beneath their (feet): yet for their sins We destroyed them, and raised in their wake fresh generations (to succeed them). (Qur'an 06:06)




Harun Yahya - Thamud

http://www.harunyahya.com/pernat15.php


Lost Cities and Perished Nations (Part 3)
http://magic-city-news.com/article_3108.shtml



:salamext:
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lolwatever
07-23-2006, 11:40 AM
it definately can't be the location on the map though! wasn't it all the way up near tabuk, which was in the opposite direction??:X

not important to me.. but i'd b surprised if das where thamud's place was
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Malaikah
07-23-2006, 11:42 AM
:sl:

Ok, now im confused. :?

I agree with lolwatever, tabuk is in the north isnt it? not in yemen..

“Do not enter the houses of those who erred themselves lest what had happened to them would afflict you, but if you had to do such a thing let it be associated with weeping.”
The sad thing is that the area is like some kind of tourist attraction now.
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- Qatada -
07-23-2006, 11:45 AM
:salamext:


Yeah, this is a map of the arabian peninsula and more at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) [i think] so tabuk is more up north..





And i heard in a Muhammad al Shareef lecture that the people of Thamud were within ash-Sham, like near Jordan somwhere. Allaah Almighty knows best.

He was also saying that there are some people who claim to be descendants of them, but subhan Allaah - they carved castles from mountains - like shown in the pic on the first post.


"And remember how He made you inheritors after the 'Ad people and gave you habitations in the land: ye build for yourselves palaces and castles in (open) plains, and care out homes in the mountains; so bring to remembrance the benefits (ye have received) from Allah, and refrain from evil and mischief on the earth." (7:74)


:wasalamex
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lolwatever
07-23-2006, 11:47 AM
phew! lol, jazaks 4 the explanation bro :statisfie
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Malaikah
07-23-2006, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
He was also saying that there are some people who claim to be descendants of them, but subhan Allaah - they carved castles from mountains - like shown in the pic on the first post.
:sl:

Yes, i believe that is why its seems so likely that it was the location of Thamud. However is seems also that the Romans inhabited the area for some time, so im not sure whether all the structures were built by the cursed nations 'Ad and Thamud or the Romans...
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lolwatever
07-23-2006, 11:51 AM
^^ salamz, but Roman's had their identifiable style of architecture and stuff which definately wasn't carving homes into rocks, Allahu a'3lam im pretty sure of that though.
ws wr wb
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Malaikah
07-23-2006, 11:55 AM
:sl:

Exaclty, im not much of an expert on Roman arcitecture but this looks roman to me:



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lolwatever
07-23-2006, 11:59 AM
lol they look like they're from carthage empire.. in tunisia

anyway i think the style looks diff to wats right up the top.

Allahu a'3lam tho. not important, point is, we know the location now :D if i ever hav to walk from the north to madinah, i'll take the coast to be sure i'm avoiding it lol
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- Qatada -
07-23-2006, 12:02 PM
:salamext:


It takes about 6hrs to get to tabuk from madinah by car.. imagine how long it would take the sahabah and the Messenger of Allaah (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) to get there with the objective of fighting the romans, in the extreme heat of the summer.


The Battle of Tabuk:
http://www.anwary-islam.com/battle/ghazwah_tabuk.html


It's really interestin masha'Allaah and emotional..


:wasalamex
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lolwatever
07-23-2006, 12:07 PM
edit
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amirah_87
07-23-2006, 02:39 PM
ass salaamu alaykum

i'm gonna have to agree with Bro fi sabilillah, that the location of thamud and 3aad are in yemen(well that's what they say anyways)
.....as for the location of 3aad...i've seen it it's in the northwest of yemen but i ain't seen the location of thamuud!!:-\

And Allah subhaanu wa ta3aalaa knows best!:peace:
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Malaikah
07-24-2006, 06:51 AM
:sl:

^wasnt the city of 'Ad totally destroyed though?
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lolwatever
07-24-2006, 07:53 AM
salamz
i think ur referring to Lot that was flipped upside down which is now replaced by dead-sea... 'Ad copped a similar punishment, read surat al-Fajr for details.

salamz
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Malaikah
07-25-2006, 08:21 AM
:sl:

^I thought it was destroyed too:
Allah the Exalted described it thus: And as for Ad, they were destroyed for a firious violent wind which Allah imposed on them for 7 nights and 8 days in succession, so that you could see men lying overthrown (destroyed) as if they were hollow trunks of palm trees! (Ch 69:6-7 Quran)

That violent gale did not stop until the entire region was reduced to ruins and its wicked people destroyed, swallowed by the sands of the desert. Only Hud and his followers remained unharmed. They migrated to Hadramaut and lived there in peace, worshipping Allah, their true Lord.
I assumed that meant they were destroyed. :-\

Originally Posted by amirah_87
ass salaamu alaykum

i'm gonna have to agree with Bro fi sabilillah, that the location of thamud and 3aad are in yemen(well that's what they say anyways)
You seem to be right about 'Ad:
The people of 'Ad lived many years in the windswept hills of an area between Yemen and Oman.
But the hadith says pretty cleary that thamud was next to tabuk.

source
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Malaikah
09-30-2006, 04:49 AM
:sl:

My friend, how is from jordan, just told me that she has actually visited these places and the tour guide told them that the place is the location of thamud...

allahu a'lam though :rollseyes
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Salmaan
09-30-2006, 07:05 AM
:sl:

The photos are thought provoking......it shows that people of ancient times were so good in architecture masha'Allah :)
...whereas today people are making just tall buildings without any art or design :rollseyes
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Malaikah
09-30-2006, 08:21 AM
:sl:

^keep in mind those people were also destroyed by allah swt for their arrogance etc so they arent exactly what you would call role models!:rollseyes

:w:
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- Qatada -
09-30-2006, 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

My friend, how is from jordan, just told me that she has actually visited these places and the tour guide told them that the place is the location of thamud...

allahu a'lam though :rollseyes

:wasalamex


This is exactly what i heard in the tafsir of Juzz 'Amma by Muhammad al Shareef:

Download off:
http://streetdawah.com/muhammadal-shareef.html



He mentioned it was in Jordan too, and some people from there might even be descendant's, Allaahu a'lam - maybe of the people who were saved.



:salamext:
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Malaikah
09-30-2006, 12:21 PM
:sl:

jazakaallah khayr, could you tell me which which surah in specific it was for?
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Curaezipirid
09-30-2006, 12:31 PM
(Australians are so ignorant of civilization. Should we stay only in knowledge of flora and fauna and unaltered landforms, except by internet? Theys stone places are scary of what peoples did. or imagined theys was diding. I can only pretend to do that kafir all get animal imagery but it don't transport well by electricity.)
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- Qatada -
09-30-2006, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

jazakaallah khayr, could you tell me which which surah in specific it was for?

:wasalamex


- Surah Al-Fajr -


I think it's Surah Fajr [89] but he might mention point's in different place's because different surah's have different info. on the people of 'Aad, Thamud etc. But i remember surah Fajr clearly insha'Allaah, and it's mentioned:


And with the Thamud (people), who cut out (huge) rocks in the valley?- [89:9]


So he give's some tafsir on that insha'Allaah. wa Allaahu ta'aala a'lam.



:salamext:
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Salmaan
09-30-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by cheese
:sl:

^keep in mind those people were also destroyed by allah swt for their arrogance etc so they arent exactly what you would call role models!:rollseyes

:w:
:sl:

where did I call them role models ? :rant:

I just said that ancient people were good in architecture and design. Can't we appreciate that ?

:w:
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- Qatada -
09-30-2006, 02:31 PM
:wasalamex


she's messing bro :) obviously Allaah Almighty is showing us how all them powerful people who were better architects, and who had longer live's than us - Allaah destroyed them easily, so no matter how powerful they were - we shouldn't follow their same path, or else Allaah can destroy us easily too.


Allaah Almighty know's best..



:salamext:
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جوري
10-01-2006, 12:11 AM
Interesting... I just saw a program about the cities of "odetta and thamudetta" A'ad and thamud... but it was an archological find on an old map... sadly I was doing something else at the time... the words piqued my curiosity but I didn't sit down to watch the actual program... wow thanks so much for this... how odd that I should find this here so close after that program.....
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Malaikah
10-01-2006, 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by Salmaan
where did I call them role models ? :rant:

I just said that ancient people were good in architecture and design. Can't we appreciate that ?
:sl:

sorry :X i didnt mean it that way, fi_sabilillah explained what i meant rather nicely:


Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
she's messing bro :) obviously Allaah Almighty is showing us how all them powerful people who were better architects, and who had longer live's than us - Allaah destroyed them easily, so no matter how powerful they were - we shouldn't follow their same path, or else Allaah can destroy us easily too.
Also, the hadith did say we are only allowed to visit the place only to re-affirm our faith etc by seeing what Allah swt does with the evil people, so i hardly think we should appreciate even their skills in architecture..

:)
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Vlad
06-03-2015, 02:34 PM
According to Ibn Khatir(RA):
Thamud came after `Ad. They dwelled between the area of the Hijaz (Western Arabia) and Ash-Sham (Greater Syria).


"According to several passages in the Qur’an, the site was already inhabited in the third millennium BC by the Thamudic tribes. Lihyanite, Minaic and Thamudic inscriptions which have been found on the site, are evidence for an occupation in the first millennium BC."
www-islamicurbanheritage-org-sa-english-MadanSaleh-aspx


Now we know for sure that Thamud existed as a civilization before the 8th century BC, but the majority of the vestiges within the Al Madinah Region of Saudi Arabia date from the Nabatean kingdom (1st century AD). Thamud also cannot be equated with the Edomites (the predecessors of Nabataeans) at Petra. Saleh(PBUH) was born before Ibrahim(PBUH) and the Edomites were a Semitic race.
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Vlad
06-03-2015, 02:42 PM
Present-day ruins at Petra and Mada'in Saleh have nothing to do with Thamud.
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Scimitar
06-03-2015, 03:05 PM
Ad and Thamud were both in the Emtpy Quarter of Arabia - Rab ul Khalee

The oldest known reference to Thamud is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian King Sargon II which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians but they were living very early even before Abraham pbuh... when we compare the family tree of Prophets as their Ancestors were Iram and Ars.


They are referred to as "Tamudaei" in the writings of Aristo of Chios, Ptolemy and Pliny.

Scimi
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Vlad
06-03-2015, 03:57 PM
After the disappearance of the original people of Thamud, Robert Hoyland also suggested that their name was subsequently adopted by other new groups( such as Nabateans and Lihyanites) that inhabited the region of Mada'in Saleh. Quran tells us how the original people of Thamud were destroyed.
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Scimitar
06-03-2015, 04:14 PM
It's no mystery for me at any rate - there are far more interesting mysteries which I am investigating :)

See Dhul Qarnayn thread :)

btw, welcome aboard Vlad :) Assalaam alaikum

Scimi
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Vlad
06-03-2015, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Ad and Thamud were both in the Emtpy Quarter of Arabia - Rab ul Khalee

The oldest known reference to Thamud is a 715 BC inscription of the Assyrian King Sargon which mentions them as being among the people of eastern and central Arabia subjugated by the Assyrians but they were living very early even before Abraham pbuh... when we compare the family tree of Prophets as their Ancestors were Iram and Ars.


They are referred to as "Tamudaei" in the writings of Aristo of Chios, Ptolemy and Pliny.

Scimi

How do you come to the conclusion that Thamud were also located in Rub al Khali?
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Scimitar
06-03-2015, 10:46 PM
deduction.

In the Quran, Aad and Thamud are mentioned together for the Arabs to recognise that God destroyed their civilisations - not a natural disaster - but ordained by God HIMSELF - thus the people of Arabia were amazed at the verses in light of their own locality. Arabia.

The tribes of Aad and Thamud were in the legends/follore of the Arabs before Islam was presented to them.

To the Thamud people (We sent) their brother Salih. He said, "O my people! worship Allah: you have no other deity other than Him. There has come to you clear evidence from your lord. This is the she-camel of God sent to you as a Sign. So leave her to eat within God's land, and do not touch her with harm, lest there seize you a painful punishment.
"And remember when He made you successors after Aad and settled you in the land, and you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. Then remember the favors of God and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption."

the Arabs knew these tribes in their histories, this is what i take from the ayaat.

I have the feeling that Thamud is in Rab ul Khalee, though it can also be in the wastelands of Midian.

Scimi
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Vlad
06-04-2015, 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
deduction.

In the Quran, Aad and Thamud are mentioned together for the Arabs to recognise that God destroyed their civilisations - not a natural disaster - but ordained by God HIMSELF - thus the people of Arabia were amazed at the verses in light of their own locality. Arabia.

The tribes of Aad and Thamud were in the legends/follore of the Arabs before Islam was presented to them. But Rub al Khali


the Arabs knew these tribes in their histories, this is what i take from the ayaat.

I have the feeling that Thamud is in Rab ul Khalee, though it can also be in the wastelands of Midian.

Scimi

Yes, Arab poets of the 6th century regarded Thamud as a group of people that had vanished in the times past. But Rub al Khali can't be that place when you consider the following hadith:

Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn `Umar said, "When the Messenger of Allah went to the area of Al-Hijr in Tabuk with the people, he camped near the homes of Thamud, in Al-Hijr and the people brought water from the wells that Thamud used before. They used that water to make dough and placed the pots (on fire) for cooking. However, the Prophet commanded them to spill the contents of the pots and to give the dough to their camels. He then marched forth with them from that area to another area, near the well that the camel (as will follow) used to drink from.
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Vlad
06-04-2015, 12:33 AM
One has to wonder where are those wells, if the sites related to Thamud were in an advanced state of decay(7:78 Whereupon the earthquake overtook them, and so they lay prostrate in their own homes.) in the time of Prophet Mohammed(PBUH), is it plausible they were completely destroyed( couple of earthquakes and a storm or two) in a few centuries after?
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Vlad
06-04-2015, 01:02 AM
Another problem is we don't have any specific timeline, the biblical timeline is a farce, evolution timeline has become a crircus after the discovery of collagen and blood vessels in dinasours bone. Thamud could be tens of thousands or thousands of years old.
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Scimitar
06-04-2015, 01:47 AM
I don't think so - the Arabs knew about them in their histories clearly bro. Let's not get too carried away,

Scimi
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Vlad
06-04-2015, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I don't think so - the Arabs knew about them in their histories clearly bro. Let's not get too carried away,

Scimi
Arab knew about them because:
and (we destroyed) ad and samood, and from their dwellings (this) is apparent to you indeed; and the shaitan made their deeds fair-seeming to them, so he kept them back from the path, though they were endowed with intelligence and skill.


Chapter: 29 , Verse: 38
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Scimitar
06-04-2015, 10:37 AM
Yes bro, :) exactly

Scimi
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Vlad
06-04-2015, 11:06 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Yes bro, :) exactly

Scimi
Yes they could be only thousands of years old, as Quran itself says:
The like of which were not created in the (other) cities

Notwithstanding, my point was where is the well where she-camel used to drink? Rasool Allah and Sahaba drank from that well, either it is completely vanished or haven't been excavated.
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Scimitar
06-04-2015, 11:37 AM
The answer to that is I don't know.

Scimi
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Aissa
06-04-2015, 05:52 PM
thank you..
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