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limitless
07-26-2006, 03:00 AM
:sl:

I have watched, read, and heard of what is occurring in England to muslims. My question is towards all muslims living in England (that includes convert, immigrates, and others etc...). Do you feel safe living in England as a Muslim? Or would rather migrate to a differ country or marry (for unmarried) the individual who is living in a differ country?

If this offended anyone, I do apologize and please notify me I will edit it.

:w:
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ahkar shams
07-26-2006, 10:15 AM
theres no problems living in england, you get the odd few who try take the pi## i mean that happend even well before 9/11, i would be called a fanatic just becuase i had a beard, then again you get some really nice people i was walking to town with a miswaak in the mouth, two white youths come up to me and say "do you know you got a stick in your mouth" i explained to them that this was the sunnah and why we use it, the two lads shook my hand and said thank for the lesson.
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Dawud_uk
07-26-2006, 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by ahkar shams
theres no problems living in england, you get the odd few who try take the pi## i mean that happend even well before 9/11, i would be called a fanatic just becuase i had a beard, then again you get some really nice people i was walking to town with a miswaak in the mouth, two white youths come up to me and say "do you know you got a stick in your mouth" i explained to them that this was the sunnah and why we use it, the two lads shook my hand and said thank for the lesson.

assalaamu alaykum,

i have had simular such good experiences but also very bad ones, in my experience the old age pensioners are the worse!

they have spat at me and used horid abuse, may Allah give them guidence, ameen.

at the end of the day scholars say we should only stay in darul kufr for three reasons, Education not available in darul islam that will benefit darul islam, medical treatment that is not available in darul islam or if we are giving dawah.

even then certain conditions must be put in place, that we are free to follow our deen and not forbidden to practice it.

e.g muslims should all leave france, they are not allowing muslimah's to observe their fard duty to Allah in covering themselves.

but are muslims truly free to practice their deen in britain?
at a time of war the zakat is supposed to be used to support the mujahadeen but we cannot do that here, so are we free to practice our deen?

when muslims are attacked we have a duty to help them anyway we can, are we free to do that in britain?

personally i have some plans for making hijrah but it is a matter of where can i go? i only speak english and have little qualifications so where is it i can go where they would take me in?

so i am looking at what i can do, looking at different options and insha'allah see how i can develop myself to either become a better da'ee or to make hijrah.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
Reply

limitless
07-26-2006, 07:46 PM
:sl:

Interesting, the population of muslim is greater in England, and in USA than in Canada. In Canada most popular religion is Catholic Christians than siks, and Islam and jews. No one really cares here, it is basically a accepting nation, not much discrimination, but in some places it has began slowly.

:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-26-2006, 07:55 PM
:salamext:

while here bro in this fitnah infested land one really has to make dhikr a lot. We need to remember Allah always. London... the workplace... subhanAllah its too much fitnah wallahi especially when you have to deal with clients at a university. Especially when most of them are drunks and drug addicts. I think dawa and doing jihad with your nafs is extremely important or i would consider moving. As much as i hate blair... the muslim population of England make it a decent place to live in Alhamdullilah.
Reply

Brother_Mujahid
07-26-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
i have had simular such good experiences but also very bad ones, in my experience the old age pensioners are the worse!

they have spat at me and used horid abuse, may Allah give them guidence, ameen.
no way man, i've never heard of pensioners doing stuff like that.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
07-26-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Brother_Mujahid
no way man, i've never heard of pensioners doing stuff like that.
try going to wales, one started at me for parking outside my uncles shop, and he owned the parking area. She made racist remarks and i think its coz we look like muslims :-\
Reply

Fishman
07-26-2006, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

i have had simular such good experiences but also very bad ones, in my experience the old age pensioners are the worse!

they have spat at me and used horid abuse, may Allah give them guidence, ameen.

at the end of the day scholars say we should only stay in darul kufr for three reasons, Education not available in darul islam that will benefit darul islam, medical treatment that is not available in darul islam or if we are giving dawah.

even then certain conditions must be put in place, that we are free to follow our deen and not forbidden to practice it.

e.g muslims should all leave france, they are not allowing muslimah's to observe their fard duty to Allah in covering themselves.

but are muslims truly free to practice their deen in britain?
at a time of war the zakat is supposed to be used to support the mujahadeen but we cannot do that here, so are we free to practice our deen?

when muslims are attacked we have a duty to help them anyway we can, are we free to do that in britain?

personally i have some plans for making hijrah but it is a matter of where can i go? i only speak english and have little qualifications so where is it i can go where they would take me in?

so i am looking at what i can do, looking at different options and insha'allah see how i can develop myself to either become a better da'ee or to make hijrah.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
:sl:
I understand your point about pensioners, I think it's because they grew up in a largely white Christian Britain, and are not used to seeing people of a different religion, culture or race. I think that the young people are probably the best, as lots of young people are friends with Muslims at school.

Anyway, compared to the USA, the UK is quite a safe place for Muslims. But I would prefer to live in a Muslim country, where I would be woken up by the Adaan every morning, have no problems buying halal food, and practice my faith publicly without a bunch of people staring at me.

I don't think that your comment about the mujahadeen makes much sense, all of the influential mujahadeen groups have some bad flaw in them (eg targeting civilians, denying the holocaust, etc). There are no non-corrupt mujahadeen to pay zakat to.

I definitely wouldn't like to live in a Western country when the Dajjal, Isa (pbuh) and the Mahdi come though, that's for sure!
:w:
Reply

S_87
07-26-2006, 08:51 PM
:sl:

well being a niqaabi walking on the street i gather stares and comments. some are a bit scary most are old women and thats funny. but i wouldnt go much places by myself.

on the long run i dont want to be here too long, inshaAllah will one day migrate, even though other countries arent exactly perfectly good if they are 50 years behind england in way it is then thats good. because here u cant restrict your children. if they wanna be gay then u cant do anything. if they want to drink then you cant do anything. etc etc
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limitless
07-26-2006, 11:05 PM
:sl:

In my opinion, going to anywhere in the world is unsafe for muslim now adays. Even muslim countrys are no longer muslim contry because of the fitnah and sins and American culture dominating their Islamic way of life. But being in Canada contrast to uk, I'd say it is 50% much safer and most of all tolrant nation. In short, there is no safe place left for a muslim in the world, the only safe place will be is where you follow islamic laws and its teachings, ask for Allahs aid, read the five salats and reading Qur'an would be the safe and most tranquil place on earth.

:w:
Reply

bint_muhammed
07-26-2006, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by limitless
:sl:

In my opinion, going to anywhere in the world is unsafe for muslim now adays. Even muslim countrys are no longer muslim contry because of the fitnah and sins and American culture dominating their Islamic way of life. But being in Canada contrast to uk, I'd say it is 50% much safer and most of all tolrant nation. In short, there is no safe place left for a muslim in the world, the only safe place will be is where you follow islamic laws and its teachings, ask for Allahs aid, read the five salats and reading Qur'an would be the safe and most tranquil place on earth.

:w:

do you want us all muslims brits to move to Canada! lol! nah i mean i've been call some things in the past, but i've always stuck up for myself! the english men are alrite i think, its the women who i find very racist! however saying that the majority are very friendly! its everywhere, racism, prejudice etc etc. i remember , when i was younger and used to go mosque some of the kids, who the majority were punjabi, where very kinda distant and rude to me just because i was pathan. you have to learn to be proud of who you are and where your from, therefore noone put you down! :)
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Sis786
07-27-2006, 07:59 AM
Assalam Alykum

I was born and bred in Britian and i cant see myself living anywhere else. I hear some Muslims saying times have become hard and they want to move but i dont see what they see or maybe i dont concentrate too much on what other people say.

I live in a mulitcutural area my city alone has 84 Mosques and number of churches, temples and Guduwaras. We all get on I walk and back to work with my Hijab on and i always get a smile and hello from the non-muslims.

I think sometimes Media likes to create fear in us that people hate us and fear us but this is all nonsense.

Im not saying that people accept Muslims and Islam like they use to but really can we blame them the media have created such a fear in them we never know whats in thier hearts.

If i was to move abroad my parents are from Pakistan and i suppose that would be first option but true honsety i rather stand here and be taunted then to go and live in Pakistan.

Walykum Salaam
Reply

Ferrari1981
07-27-2006, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by limitless
:sl:
I have watched, read, and heard of what is occurring in England to muslims. My question is towards all muslims living in England (that includes convert, immigrates, and others etc...). Do you feel safe living in England as a Muslim? Or would rather migrate to a differ country or marry (for unmarried) the individual who is living in a differ country?
If this offended anyone, I do apologize and please notify me I will edit it.:w:
Woah you seem concerned!

Where do you read that its not safe, I know Alimah in niqaab in NYC who are treating with respect by their own public even after Sept 11... The UK isnt really an unsafe place, infact its better to live here than elsewhere!

Though I personally (and this is my own dream) to visit USA, live in Dubai/Sharjah and travelt he world in 80 days... But I dont see anything wrong the UK...

I mean every country has their fair share of issues, here in the UK we have asians and whites fighting and killing, but the worst kind of issue we have here is silly Muslims fighting against each other and the so called 'honour killings' by killing their own members of their families which is a disgrace, but that heppens everywhere.

I believe where ever you go itll be unsafe you just have to try and live a safe life the best you can. Theres alot of Muslims out there who dont understand Islam and therefore do whta suits them and that is what divides our Ummah and its why the world is a unsafe place right now.

What makes you think there may be an issue here in the UK!?
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amirah_87
07-27-2006, 11:20 AM
ass salaamu alaykum,

i don't feel safe here at all for me or for my religion....and yes i'm gonna move out inshaAllah as soon as Allah wills for me to go!!....but i'm not gonna migrate/ make hijrah from here cause i have family and all and i might come visit them and from time to time and i might need to come back for other reasons!!
i don't see why anyone would like to continue to live here for the rest of the lives really....especially since the Prophet salalaahu 3alayhi wasallam said i am Baree(free/sound) from those who die in the land of kufr!!:-\
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 11:21 AM
:sl:

I find it funny they stare when your wear islamic clothing but it's natrual for them to walk around with nothing on
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amirah_87
07-27-2006, 11:26 AM
ass salaamu alaykum

^^^^^^^^^^exactly...try wearing the whole black kit!!...you actually feel as though they're gonna lash out at you any second!!
but alhamdulillah i have'nt been physially abused YET!! but the verbal one's are very common!! :heated:

ALLLAAHUMA UNSUR AL-ISLAM WALMUSLIMEEN!!:peace:
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root
07-27-2006, 11:33 AM
I always bear in mind that whilst working in Karachi, Pakistan I required an armed Guard to walk me to and from the Hotel in Karachi to the place of work, all because I was European looking. Kids would stare at me ALL the time and I stuck out like a soar thumb. Eventully I took to wearing all black local clothing but it did not change that much. People still stood and stared............

It was strange having armed guards outside McDonalds too :giggling:

At least, you don't really need such measures when visiting the UK!

That said, pakistanis themselves on the whole were brilliant and I made many great friends and have very fond memories. I never quite realised how close to the British pakistan really is.
Reply

Hijaabi22
07-27-2006, 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by limitless
:sl:

I have watched, read, and heard of what is occurring in England to muslims. My question is towards all muslims living in England (that includes convert, immigrates, and others etc...). Do you feel safe living in England as a Muslim? Or would rather migrate to a differ country or marry (for unmarried) the individual who is living in a differ country?

If this offended anyone, I do apologize and please notify me I will edit it.

:w:
Live din England all my life wudnt wana live anywhere else proud 2 be a british muslim :)
Reply

Kittygyal
07-27-2006, 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by limitless
:sl:

I have watched, read, and heard of what is occurring in England to muslims. My question is towards all muslims living in England (that includes convert, immigrates, and others etc...). Do you feel safe living in England as a Muslim? Or would rather migrate to a differ country or marry (for unmarried) the individual who is living in a differ country?

If this offended anyone, I do apologize and please notify me I will edit it.

:w:

well basically am living in Bristol but however i do come to Bradford often so ni would actually love to live in my back home Cuicago Usa cause it's much better there even though been 3 weeks since i came back from Chicago
Reply

j4763
07-27-2006, 11:50 AM
i have had simular such good experiences but also very bad ones, in my experience the old age pensioners are the worse!
Yeah the old people in Britain (well most) can not adapt to change, you have to understand that back in there day people of a different colour/religion weren’t seen much.
Unfortunately my grandmother is the same, stuck in the 1940’s (“the good old times” and that).
But I guess I can imaging how she feels.

try going to wales, one started at me for parking outside my uncles shop, and he owned the parking area. She made racist remarks and i think its coz we look like muslims
Ha-ha, its quite possible that the welsh don’t hate you because you’re a Muslim (well they probably do) but the welsh hate anyone who isn’t welsh, silly fools.
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chacha_jalebi
07-27-2006, 12:25 PM
salaam

i think the whole england muslimy tingy has been like over exagerated, its not as bad as the media or people think it is, bare ppl do except dat muslims aint all terrorists & many people live 2geva all happily dapppily :D. but probly it depends on the area ur from and stuff, in london & especially moi area theres neva been any racism :p cos ders no1 2 b racist 2:p

but i do think that the media do try to divide the muslims from the rest of england, cos of the term "BRITISH MUSLIMS" dat term annoys moi, because aint we posed 2 b british:rollseyes all united as 1:p & sacrifice ourselfs 4 d queen :p bless d old bag :D lol naa, like british ppl promote proper unity & stuff yet, they have words such as "british muslims", why dont they use words such as "british christians"? or even british hindus :p u neva hear them secludin any1 else, they always seclude muslims, so its understandable for people not 2 want 2 live here, but i tink the racism thing has been over exagerated :D:D:D and its not as bad as it is portrayed
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Ghazi
07-27-2006, 01:01 PM
:sl:

sacrifice ourselfs 4 d queen
Joker :giggling: , I aint scarificing my live for her, she already takes my dosh in taxes and lives of it.
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-27-2006, 01:13 PM
if england and islam was to have a war guess which side i would be on even if minority (which it sadly looks like it will be) :)
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Sis786
07-27-2006, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by root
I always bear in mind that whilst working in Karachi, Pakistan I required an armed Guard to walk me to and from the Hotel in Karachi to the place of work, all because I was European looking. Kids would stare at me ALL the time and I stuck out like a soar thumb. Eventully I took to wearing all black local clothing but it did not change that much. People still stood and stared............
Dont take too offensive when a non-pakistani goes to Pakistan they always gets stares but it more like people are in awe of you. Pakistanis love people that are not from Pakistan and that includes people like me born in Britain but have Parents from Pakistan!
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chacha_jalebi
07-27-2006, 02:13 PM
root :p what have you got againist pakistan :p

and how dya know they were starin @ ya if u werent starin @ em, huh huh huh? armed guard? lol he jus wannid 2 get sum money of u man, in pakiland ya gota b careful the armed guards will rob ya :p and security outside Maccy D, c how posh we r :p and me agrees wit donkey sista, even when we come 2 pakistan 4 sum reason they r fascinated by us :p bless d smelly nit infested paki kiddies :D
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Kittygyal
07-27-2006, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
root :p what have you got againist pakistan :p

and how dya know they were starin @ ya if u werent starin @ em, huh huh huh? armed guard? lol he jus wannid 2 get sum money of u man, in pakiland ya gota b careful the armed guards will rob ya :p and security outside Maccy D, c how posh we r :p and me agrees wit donkey sista, even when we come 2 pakistan 4 sum reason they r fascinated by us :p bless d smelly nit infested paki kiddies :D

translate that again plz :D
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chacha_jalebi
07-27-2006, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by islamgyal
translate that again plz :D
*yawns* :p

well my sister within humanity and within islam, i was saying referring to roots comments about pakistan,

and i was commenting :p on them, asking him how did he know that the kids were staring at him if he werent staring at them, and armed guards outside maccy d (Mc donalds :p) shows that pakistan is posh :D :p

and pakistanis are fascinated by all people from outside, even when we go back home they get excited :D:D:D

i sincerly hope from the bottom of my aspharagus (dnt mess wit d poshness) :p that you did understand now :p
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Kittygyal
07-27-2006, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
*yawns* :p

well my sister within humanity and within islam, i was saying referring to roots comments about pakistan,

and i was commenting :p on them, asking him how did he know that the kids were staring at him if he werent staring at them, and armed guards outside maccy d (Mc donalds :p) shows that pakistan is posh :D :p

and pakistanis are fascinated by all people from outside, even when we go back home they get excited :D:D:D

i sincerly hope from the bottom of my aspharagus (dnt mess wit d poshness) :p that you did understand now :p
humm maybe you could keep the "poshness" will be nice if you do lolz, ;D
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Fishman
07-27-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by amirah_87
ass salaamu alaykum

^^^^^^^^^^exactly...try wearing the whole black kit!!...you actually feel as though they're gonna lash out at you any second!!
but alhamdulillah i have'nt been physially abused YET!! but the verbal one's are very common!! :heated:

ALLLAAHUMA UNSUR AL-ISLAM WALMUSLIMEEN!!:peace:
:sl:
I would say 'try wearing the whole white kit'(thobe+sirwal+kufi), but that would be promoting cross-dressing!
:w:
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Hijaabi22
07-27-2006, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
donkey sista
ahahahaha :giggling:
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limitless
07-28-2006, 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by -----------
Live din England all my life wudnt wana live anywhere else proud 2 be a british muslim :)
:sl:

That is good ideology, and I am a proud to be a Canadian Muslim, it is the best country (everyone respects muslims despite any dress code), with so much enriching oppurnaties to be explored.

:w:
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snakelegs
07-28-2006, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by Mazed
if england and islam was to have a war guess which side i would be on even if minority (which it sadly looks like it will be) :)
you are aware that if there were a lot of muslims who felt this way, and the brits caught on, muslims could be considered a "fifth column".
in case you're not aware of the meaning of this term, it is used about a group of people which clandestinely undermines a larger group to which it is expected to be loyal, such as a nation.
Reply

scentsofjannah
07-28-2006, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by ahkar shams
theres no problems living in england, you get the odd few who try take the pi## i mean that happend even well before 9/11, i would be called a fanatic just becuase i had a beard, then again you get some really nice people i was walking to town with a miswaak in the mouth, two white youths come up to me and say "do you know you got a stick in your mouth" i explained to them that this was the sunnah and why we use it, the two lads shook my hand and said thank for the lesson.

ROFL..seriously that made me laugh my head off!
Reply

scentsofjannah
07-28-2006, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

i have had simular such good experiences but also very bad ones, in my experience the old age pensioners are the worse!

they have spat at me and used horid abuse, may Allah give them guidence, ameen.

at the end of the day scholars say we should only stay in darul kufr for three reasons, Education not available in darul islam that will benefit darul islam, medical treatment that is not available in darul islam or if we are giving dawah.

even then certain conditions must be put in place, that we are free to follow our deen and not forbidden to practice it.

e.g muslims should all leave france, they are not allowing muslimah's to observe their fard duty to Allah in covering themselves.

but are muslims truly free to practice their deen in britain?
at a time of war the zakat is supposed to be used to support the mujahadeen but we cannot do that here, so are we free to practice our deen?

when muslims are attacked we have a duty to help them anyway we can, are we free to do that in britain?

personally i have some plans for making hijrah but it is a matter of where can i go? i only speak english and have little qualifications so where is it i can go where they would take me in?

so i am looking at what i can do, looking at different options and insha'allah see how i can develop myself to either become a better da'ee or to make hijrah.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

brother Dawud you're english..this is your country and the country of your ancestors..if you choose to become a muslim that doesnt mean you start thinking this is not your country..sure it isnt darul islam..but what you can do is make da'wah and invite people to the beautiful deen with your beautiful actions and words..preferably actions..

We have to stop thinking that this is not our country and that we all should emigrate en masse to some muslim country..

China isnt a muslim country..yet it has an ethnic Muslim population numbering in the millions..25 million to be precise, (some say its more than that) and they do have many problems like restrictions ..not being able to build mosques in certain places etc..imagine if they all made hijrah to some muslim countries? they'd overwhlem those countries..its an impossibility!!

I love Britain ..that doesnt mean i love everything about western culture..some aspects are admirable, others abhorrent to me and i really believe as Muslims we should enrich this country and provide alternative solutions to many social problems..example the alcohol problem(its estimated millions are addicted to it), anti-social behaviour, unwanted teen pregnancies..even the example of the miswak..i know it seems funny but if everyone here used it (and we know brits have a reputation for having 'bad teeth')..trust me the dental profession would die out.:statisfie

:w:
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snakelegs
07-28-2006, 10:58 AM
scents,
what a great post.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
07-28-2006, 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786

I live in a mulitcutural area my city alone has 84 Mosques and number of churches, temples and Guduwaras. We all get on I walk and back to work with my Hijab on and i always get a smile and hello from the non-muslims.
That pleases me truly it does! Harmony amongst religions. :)
Reply

gamsta3
07-28-2006, 02:36 PM
I've been called a paki many times whilst walking down the road. I've walked into coffee shops and had people running out shouting 'OH S**T'. On juma, at college, whilst sitting doing my work i've had people making fun of the deen by sticking their fingers in their ears, hence imitating the man who gives adan. I do not wear a beard or muslim clothing. This all started after madrid bombs and has definitely intensified since the july 7 tube bombs. Things have definitely changed for me.
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scentsofjannah
07-28-2006, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
scents,
what a great post.
thanks..honestly i cant understand it when people say we have to make hijrah..that we are obligated under Islamic law to do so?..its impossible and not right.

there are people here who need us too..but i can understand those skilled muslims(doctors, teachers, nurses etc) who go to poor muslim countriies to help the disadvantaged, i can also understand those who feel they have to flee because of the changing circumstances..i have no respect though for those muslims who go to glitzy Jeddah or Dubai and then say all of us have to follow suit:heated:
Reply

scentsofjannah
07-28-2006, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by gamsta3
I've been called a paki many times whilst walking down the road. I've walked into coffee shops and had people running out shouting 'OH S**T'. On juma, at college, whilst sitting doing my work i've had people making fun of the deen by sticking their fingers in their ears, hence imitating the man who gives adan. I do not wear a beard or muslim clothing. This all started after madrid bombs and has definitely intensified since the july 7 tube bombs. Things have definitely changed for me.

I have been called a f--- b---- by some guys in a passing truck.

i was waiting for my bus and there was quite a queue when this car came and splashed dirty muddy rainwater all over me..to be quite honest i was struggling to hold back my tears.

i had a pasty (i think it was a cheese and onion one) thrown at me by some racist teenage boys who got nothing better to do...this was in the highstreet and it was busy.

i know the situation is not good here because of world events and 77 but we have to be patient..Allah is with the patient and we have to make an alliance with the forces for good regardless of background to better our communities
Reply

limitless
07-30-2006, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
I have been called a f--- b---- by some guys in a passing truck.

i was waiting for my bus and there was quite a queue when this car came and splashed dirty muddy rainwater all over me..to be quite honest i was struggling to hold back my tears.

i had a pasty (i think it was a cheese and onion one) thrown at me by some racist teenage boys who got nothing better to do...this was in the highstreet and it was busy.

i know the situation is not good here because of world events and 77 but we have to be patient..Allah is with the patient and we have to make an alliance with the forces for good regardless of background to better our communities
:sl:

That's horrible. You should not bare that, by saying Allah says that and that. Remeber it is not a muslim country, you are obiligated to bare such things.There was a story or Hadith based on musim country or something similar, I do not have it at this momment. I think you should migrate from that country.

:w:
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Muezzin
07-30-2006, 03:47 PM
The worst I've been called is a Paki, and that was before 9/11. It's usually the chavs who act up, but I've always stayed away from them on general principle. I let such uneducated, semi-literate fools say what they like.

If normal people (i.e. not chavs) start saying something against Islam or Muslims, I try to first listen to what they have to say, and then try to politely set them straight.

I've not had much trouble personally though. Maybe it's because, according to two different sources, I 'look Hindu'. Hmm.
Reply

Snowflake
07-30-2006, 04:38 PM
I was walking back from school with my son and my neighbours kids and a gora went past on his bike and shouted, "F'ing dirty pakis!" at the kids!!! And What kind of man picks on little kids.

Newayz, if anyone thinks we are accepted here without a grudge, go and live in white areas. I bet no one would even feel comfortable enough to try. Why? Cuz as much as we british asians like to think of Britain as our country, the majority of the British never will.

And I agree with brother Da'wud about not being able to help our muslims brothers and sisters in other countries without seeming disloyal to the country we live in. Any1 got the courage to go and raise money for Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon to name a few? No I thought not.
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Helena
07-30-2006, 08:37 PM
living in london..alhamdulilah its been great...getting the chance to pray in the local mosque,going to uni,going out wid mates, but in my own country wudve been a total diff story! we've got the chance to be here and the spread the word of islam thru dawah inshalah....

since9/11 and 7/7, well its been diff..a new phase, diff beginning....even thou moi walk alone to uni on da train..usually ppl stare, give moi odd looks....it dsnt really effect me at all, as i carry a islam in my heart and Allah(swt) is protecting us all inshalah....

even thou some stare..usually smile away.....as smile is charity in islam..

one event occured inside the station...police were searching for oysters or tickets, if it was fraud...who do they look at and stop ? guess? they look at me...wearing a hijaab and jilbab...me..why? well it dsnt bother moi at all..i have faith inshalah...

one thing in london...is..even thou we are muslims or one ummah....most asians, arabs have occupied certain area that they are well known for...bengalis live in towerhamlets(whitechaple), pakistanis live in walthamstow, indians live in green street and the arabs live regents park or edgware road...we have divded ourselves into diff areas...

even thou we live here..majority muslims, dnt understand the purpose of islam, and misuse it, following the path of wrongdoers, free mixing, involved in drugs, gangsters....astagfirulla..coming here have we lost ourselves? forgotten our religion?
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Muezzin
07-30-2006, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
I was walking back from school with my son and my neighbours kids and a gora went past on his bike and shouted, "F'ing dirty pakis!" at the kids!!! And What kind of man picks on little kids.
A nasty piece of work. Probably a chav. Ignore the creep and teach the children not to take such jibes to heart. Scum like that thrive on making children cry.

Newayz, if anyone thinks we are accepted here without a grudge, go and live in white areas. I bet no one would even feel comfortable enough to try. Why? Cuz as much as we british asians like to think of Britain as our country, the majority of the British never will.
I live in a predominantly white area. In fact, a predominantly white and Jewish area. No hostility, except from chavs, who do not live in this area as they are working class scum. I am not saying that all working class people are scum, I'm just saying chavs are working class, and they are scum.

The hell with people who can't accept me or us as Muslims. Alienation is so secondary school.

And I agree with brother Da'wud about not being able to help our muslims brothers and sisters in other countries without seeming disloyal to the country we live in. Any1 got the courage to go and raise money for Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon to name a few? No I thought not.
Why not? Are we not able to do this through numerous Muslim charities, helping victims of war etc?
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limitless
07-30-2006, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
I was walking back from school with my son and my neighbours kids and a gora went past on his bike and shouted, "F'ing dirty pakis!" at the kids!!! And What kind of man picks on little kids.

Newayz, if anyone thinks we are accepted here without a grudge, go and live in white areas. I bet no one would even feel comfortable enough to try. Why? Cuz as much as we british asians like to think of Britain as our country, the majority of the British never will.

And I agree with brother Da'wud about not being able to help our muslims brothers and sisters in other countries without seeming disloyal to the country we live in. Any1 got the courage to go and raise money for Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon to name a few? No I thought not.
:sl:

I agree with you sister. But then why bother to live in a country where you have no dignity no respect from it's citizen? Why? Just to enjoy the technology, video game, air conditioning? The pounds? Muslims say we pray, Read Qu'ran and such, but they actually do muslim type of things? I think not. Muslims will never be highly respected by Christians, and Jews regardless of Country and it's citizen. You are not white not Christian or Jew, you have no right to be in such a position. That is what most of my muslim elder bros told me in my city.

Why do you people live, when you get treated like that?
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Muezzin
07-30-2006, 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by limitless
:sl:

I agree with you sister. But then why bother to live in a country where you have no dignity no respect from it's citizen? Why? Just to enjoy the technology, video game, air conditioning? The pounds? Muslims say we pray, Read Qu'ran and such, but they actually do muslim type of things? I think not.
That's not fair. How can you judge what sort of spiritual life a person leads based upon the country they live in? That logic would dictate, for example, that because Pakistan is technically an Islamic country, every single one of its citizens would be shining examples of what a Muslim should be. Of course this is not the case. Pakistan indeed contains good, practicing Muslims, as does the rest of the world. However, it also contains Muslims who have deviated very seriously from the correct path, as do other countries.

Why do you people live, when you get treated like that?
Not everyone is treated like that. If they are, it's up to them how they deal with it. I tend to ignore the skinheads and the scumbags, as I went to a secondary school full of 'em and so am desensitized.
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chacha_jalebi
07-30-2006, 10:34 PM
lol muezzin bro, who are chavs? you & chavs seem 2 hav a interesin history :D

personally i havent faced like in your face racism, i rememba when i woz a likkle baby people used 2 call me luigi bcos apparently i resembled him:rollseyes lol & my mateys sed dat was racist i dunno how though lol

but i hav experienced not so direct racism, but mashallah it werent serious lol, like i rememba in yr7 when some wite boys, were playin footy & i asked em "can i play" and they gav me dirty looks & sed "no d teams alredy hav been chosen& ders no space" but lik 5 mins lata wen a wite boy came dey let him play! so i thru my can @ the boy and busted his lip, and from that day, can drinks were banned in our skool :D lol,

also ive noticed SOME white OLD people r racist, but i dont blame em, cos back in der days there was only the jolly old english, then wen der old der streets r full of different coloured kids causin riots :p so its undastandable kind of, but i think white old people r the most racist:D bless der pensions :p
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Muezzin
07-30-2006, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol muezzin bro, who are chavs? you & chavs seem 2 hav a interesin history :D
You should really see the toilet that was my secondary school. Full of chavs, I tell thee. :D

Oh, and a chav is a nasty piece of human trash, otherwise known as 'scutters', 'scallies' or 'townies'. They wear enough gold to make an Oscar award look dull, and wear burbary as if it's the new black.

But anyway, some people get discriminated really badly, and I don't blame them for wanting to move. I'm fortunate, in that the only people who've been racist to me are also thickos who probably couldn't spell 'Paki' if it meant lifelong immunisation from STD's, which, being chavs, they are naturally more susceptible to.
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chacha_jalebi
07-30-2006, 10:39 PM
racism is just sad, judgin sum1 by d colour of der skin or wer der from is low, but d occasional joke is ok :p as long as ebery1 is larfin :D

are chavs latin peeps? they are nice you know, a bit like pakistani folk :D
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Muezzin
07-30-2006, 10:42 PM
Chavs are so not latinos. Latinos are cool and often funny. Chavs are just bloody annoying scum.

Witness the real threat to mankind

(CLICK LINK AT OWN RISK, PARENTS DON'T LET KIDS USE THE INTERNET UNATTENDED ANYWAY, DUH!)
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chacha_jalebi
07-30-2006, 10:44 PM
ohhhh lol, chavs = typical wite trash :D

yeh they r the most racist
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snakelegs
07-30-2006, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
The worst I've been called is a Paki, and that was before 9/11. It's usually the chavs who act up,

what's a chav?

I've not had much trouble personally though. Maybe it's because, according to two different sources, I 'look Hindu'. Hmm.
:giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:
are you sure they were brits and not americans?
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snakelegs
07-30-2006, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Cuz as much as we british asians like to think of Britain as our country, the majority of the British never will.
so sad. then why do they complain that you are not integrating into british society? in this regard, i don't think the americans are as bad - most would accept you as an american (i would hope so, anyway).
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Fishman
07-31-2006, 09:17 AM
:sl:
I also live in a white area, a place that is actually known for its roughness and as the only asian/muslim family in the area we did receive some racism (mostly childish things, like stones thrown on windows) for the first couple of weeks, which was all that we've experienced. 10 years we've been here now.

Of course, it helps that most of the neighbours are old fogies
I don't know any other Muslims in my area, except for possibly the people who work at CFS (Carlton Food Station). They do halal food there also.
:w:
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Snowflake
07-31-2006, 10:07 AM
:sl:

=Muezzin;427444]A nasty piece of work. Probably a chav. Ignore the creep and teach the children not to take such jibes to heart. Scum like that thrive on making children cry.
And this was a gora who lives in a predominantly muslim area. So it goes to show that we have wolves living amonsgt us in sheeps clothing. We will never feel a 100% safe.

I live in a predominantly white area. In fact, a predominantly white and Jewish area. No hostility, except from chavs, who do not live in this area as they are working class scum. I am not saying that all working class people are scum, I'm just saying chavs are working class, and they are scum.
That just proves my point in that even where we assume there is tolerance, it will never be total. Then again there are those who may not show it as they know there's not much that can be done. I've seen the hatred Brits display towards muslims on msg boards. And I bet most of these would never show it on a muslims face. Still to believe that we are happily accepted is wishful thinking.

Why not? Are we not able to do this through numerous Muslim charities, helping victims of war etc?
You maybe right. But I havent seen any muslim charities actively involved in any sort of aid. Maybe that's just my ignorance. My point though was that we are unable to help as individuals. I once tried to raise money for Afghanistan and everyone I knew told me I was putting myself at risk of being accused to help the Taliban. And they were right. I could've been arrested and interrogated. We have to stop kidding ourselves that we can live freely as muslims in a non-muslim land.


Originally Posted by limitless
:sl:

I agree with you sister. But then why bother to live in a country where you have no dignity no respect from it's citizen? Why? Just to enjoy the technology, video game, air conditioning? The pounds? Muslims say we pray, Read Qu'ran and such, but they actually do muslim type of things? I think not. Muslims will never be highly respected by Christians, and Jews regardless of Country and it's citizen. You are not white not Christian or Jew, you have no right to be in such a position. That is what most of my muslim elder bros told me in my city.

Why do you people live, when you get treated like that?
Those things are available in muslim countries too. In fact if you want to live in luxury then a muslim country's the place to be. The working class can afford servants, cooks, chauffers, whereas here those are only the privileges of the rich and famous.

So no, I am not here for that reason. I was born and raised here. That's why I am here. Now I am independant I am amidst plans to move out as soon as possible. As you said, why live in a country where I get treated like that? I can assure you that I won't be for long inshaAllah.

:w:
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Fishman
07-31-2006, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
typical wite trash :D
:sl:
Careful with using the term 'white trash'. Racist people use it as an excuse for what the do, saying: 'black/Asian/Muslim/immigrant people are allowed to be racist to us, and we can't be racist to them'.

Also, white people are just the same as any other race, and not any more 'trashier'. although some Europeans have been downright evil in the past, most of them have now grown out of racism, particularly the young people. Also, there are plenty of white Muslims on this board, myself included, who might take offense from that remark.
:w:
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Snowflake
07-31-2006, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
so sad. then why do they complain that you are not integrating into british society? in this regard, i don't think the americans are as bad - most would accept you as an american (i would hope so, anyway).
The definition of intergration varies from person to person, from race to race, from religion to religion. I could say that simply, living, working, paying my taxes and adhering to British Law is enough intergration for me.

But to some unless, I am out pubbing, clubbing, drinking, sleeping around wearing revealing clothing and being one of the crowd and not maintaining my identity as a muslim, I have far from intergrated into British culture.

It's interesting to think that Hindu's and Sikhs are more readily accepted by the British because they simply do as the Brits do.

So if Brits are complaining about muslims not intergrating into British society it is only because they want us to do it on their terms. Otherwise we're seen as outcasts.
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Umm Yoosuf
07-31-2006, 01:40 PM
Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulaah

Life in England….it used to be “safe”. However ever since September the 11th, things changed dramatically. Tension has stimulated and people are very hostile. Some Muslims have been physically abused and others verbally abused.

These are some of the comments shouted out on daily bases (personally to me)

"I say to Mr. Blair remove these Muslims from our country. Send them back to their lands!"

"These Muslims want to take over the world...have you not read what it says in the Qur'an."

"What do you think this country is Afghanistan...?”

It is not easy to go out wearing Niqaab, walking in the mist of the night (evening time) no longer. It is not easy to wear Hijab and feel comfortable in educational intuitions. Nor it is easy to find a job unless you compromise your religion.

Nevertheless, I see people entering into Islam in folds. Alhamulilaah (Praise be to Allah). People want to know what this terrorist, fundamentalist and fanatical religion is all about.
Many a time I have been approached by regular people asking me why i cover myself and why Islam…?


As for safety, it is reasonable to some extent but not as it use to be. You can feel something is different this time.
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gamsta3
07-31-2006, 01:57 PM
Definitely. Since July 7, things really have become bad. I have been verablly abused like never before since the beginning of this year. Something, that never happended to me before at all.
I dont think we should hate white people, because as soonn as you have been insulted by one, u will see another one walking down the corridor wearing that arab scarf thing. So dont forget a lot of people r sympathetic to our cause. I dont think however, that we will ever be accepted as part of britain, not sincirely anayway.

What is a chav?
What is a chav?
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Sweet_Boy
07-31-2006, 02:34 PM
well in my area in a town called oldham ( great manchester ) thier is many muslims ... but sometimes it upsets me cause many of them cause trouble , but other than that thier only little kids like my age 14 years and stuff

i would love to move to holland one day or even canada
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Fishman
07-31-2006, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by gamsta3
What is a chav?
What is a chav?
:sl:
Someone who wears a black hoodie and lots of gold jewlery, usually smoking on the street corner. They sometimes wear a cap under their hoodie.

Chavs are commonly refered to as 'gangstas'.
:w:
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scentsofjannah
07-31-2006, 04:52 PM
chavs are people of Britain who are poorly educated, hooked on smoking, badly clothed, living in ugly red brick houses, lacking in morals and self-discipline .

I'm sorry if i was too harsh.
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bint_muhammed
07-31-2006, 10:06 PM
you know when we talk about chavs (refering to white) being racist but honestly its amongstother cultures and races aswell! sometimes some asian people who from different area or has different culture than looks down on you. my sister friend said to my sister and she is a pakistani 'my mum said you guys kidnap girls and murder them' or smething like that just cause my parent lives on the border of pakistan and afghanistan, so my sis told me mum who was so offended! i'm just using this to show that its amongst different races being prejudice, but we assume its the english people because we live in their country and only see them being rude to us than other people! my cousin lives in dubai and he finds some of them really racist, because he's lived there and has only experienced prejudice behaviour from them!
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j4763
08-01-2006, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
chavs are people of Britain who are poorly educated, hooked on smoking, badly clothed, living in ugly red brick houses, lacking in morals and self-discipline .

I'm sorry if i was too harsh.
Well no a chav imo is a young person who has not a lot to do besides hang around on street corners in tracksuits. I don’t think it has anything to do with how well educated one is or how there brought up, its just a new fashion faze kind of thing, every 5 years or so there’s a new one, hippies, mods, rockers, punks… etc

I also think it’s a bit unfair to say its white trash who are only chavs, many blacks and Asians dress and act exactly the same but for some reason there not labelled as chavs (so what are they called then:? ).
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Durrah
08-01-2006, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Someone who wears a black hoodie and lots of gold jewlery, usually smoking on the street corner. They sometimes wear a cap under their hoodie.

Chavs are commonly refered to as 'gangstas'.
:w:
:sl:

Chavs and gangstas are not the same thing. Chav is used exclusively to refer to white working class guys, usually wearing burberry, gold chains and tracksuits/ or hoodie tops with jeans. And they tend to live in places like essex, daghnem & barking.

a gangsta is anyone, regardless of race that seen to be quite tough, has a lot of street cred and dresses like your average american rapper.
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Fishman
08-01-2006, 05:14 PM
:sl:
Anyway, this topic isn't called 'England chavs', it's called 'England Muslims'! I know that this discussion is chavtastic, but can we please get back on topic.

After being too nervous to walk about in the streets in my Islamic cap (one of those round brimmless ones), I now understand the problems that new Muslimahs go through. One time when I was going to the Masjid in the car a bunch of people stared at me.
:w:
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Durrah
08-01-2006, 06:57 PM
:sl:

Who were the people staring at you Fishman? If they were muslims, then they're stupid, if not well thats not suprising. The moment you look like the 'other', your bound to get stares, especially if you live in an area where it's not very racially and culturally mixed. You get used to it after a while though.

Anyways as for england and living in here as a muslim, its okay. To be honest i never personally had any problems here, not untill 9/11. After that, everything got a bit weird and suddenly people would act all funny around me and yea you get the odd verbal agro but despite that i still think england is proabably the best country for muslims compared to the rest of europe.

I've been to:

France
Germany
Sweden
Finland

and i've got close family and friends who are citizens of:

Holland
Switzerland
Denmark
Belgium

but are now living in england and trust me, england is heaven for muslims compared to these nations, including the ones i visited. Most of these countries are very xenophobic and racist (with the expection of sweden). Despite their claims of being very tolerant, in particlar Holland which has always claimed this lie (and this is long BEFORE the murder of theo van gogh and all that saga with ayan hersi ali), its almost impossiable for muslim and non white citzens in general, regardless of religion, to move up and progess in these socities. You can spend 20 years in their country, learn the language, go through in the education system (like my uncle), have your kids born and raised in the country and still find yourself living in the ghetto slums, in the poorest districts of the country. You cant get into top positions in jobs, if any decent jobs at all, because of the districts you live in your kids cant go to better schools (as in france) and as a muslim, expect yourself to find getting a job difficult especially if you wear hijab or have a long beard or have a muslim/african/arab/turkish name. And you can forget about even trying to get mosques open or islamic schools as regulation on muslims is tight. Although you do find masjids in them countries, you might only get a very small amount and planning regulations etc.. are made very difficult, especially since 9/11, war in afghanistan, iraq, madrid bombings, 7/7.

alhamdualiah the situitaion in england is a million times better, so i dont think us muslims over in the u.k should get worked up, because relaity is, our brothers and sisters in the rest of europe, who are more then us in number, are finding life much harder over there as muslims.
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Kittygyal
08-01-2006, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Someone who wears a black hoodie and lots of gold jewlery, usually smoking on the street corner. They sometimes wear a cap under their hoodie.

Chavs are commonly refered to as 'gangstas'.
:w:
lads + gyals + fags + drugs + corners + money + jewls = chavs :p
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Fishman
08-01-2006, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Durrah
:sl:

Who were the people staring at you Fishman? If they were muslims, then they're stupid, if not well thats not suprising. The moment you look like the 'other', your bound to get stares, especially if you live in an area where it's not very racially and culturally mixed. You get used to it after a while though.
:sl:
No, they weren't Muslims, they were a bunch of people walking past the car as we came out of our driveway. The area that I live in has very few Muslims. The Masjid I go to is in Snienton which, whilst unfortunately being a drug and gangster city, has a relatively large amount of Muslims, to the extent that there are quite a few Islamic shops. I didn't get any stares around there.
Anyways, the Muslims who I know have never been racist or intollerant of me, despite the fact that I'm the only 'white' guy at the Masjid. I don't feel strange there, I feel like I've been completely accepted into the community. Alhamdulillah!
:w:
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Muezzin
08-01-2006, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by j4763
Well no a chav imo is a young person who has not a lot to do besides hang around on street corners in tracksuits. I don’t think it has anything to do with how well educated one is or how there brought up, its just a new fashion faze kind of thing, every 5 years or so there’s a new one, hippies, mods, rockers, punks… etc
Chavs have existed since... the stone age!

Then they didn't have gold, but rare beetle necklaces.

Or something.

I also think it’s a bit unfair to say its white trash who are only chavs, many blacks and Asians dress and act exactly the same but for some reason there not labelled as chavs (so what are they called then:? ).
Minaz calls them 'Brownies' (i.e. Brown Townies). But yes, 'white trash' is an insult to white people - and it would be stupid to call all white people chavs. Chavs are just in a league of their own, ethnicity-transcending, scumminess.

But anyway, back to the topic at hand, chavs are the only people I've had trouble with.
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Fishman
08-01-2006, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Chavs have existed since... the stone age!

Then they didn't have gold, but rare beetle necklaces.

Or something.


Minaz calls them 'Brownies' (i.e. Brown Townies). But yes, 'white trash' is an insult to white people - and it would be stupid to call all white people chavs. Chavs are just in a league of their own, ethnicity-transcending, scumminess.

But anyway, back to the topic at hand, chavs are the only people I've had trouble with.
:sl:
Oh, Muezzin, you had to bring up the c-word again didn't ya! I tried to get chavs off the subject!
:w:
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Durrah
08-01-2006, 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
No, they weren't Muslims, they were a bunch of people walking past the car as we came out of our driveway. The area that I live in has very few Muslims. The Masjid I go to is in Snienton which, whilst unfortunately being a drug and gangster city, has a relatively large amount of Muslims, to the extent that there are quite a few Islamic shops. I didn't get any stares around there.
Anyways, the Muslims who I know have never been racist or intollerant of me, despite the fact that I'm the only 'white' guy at the Masjid. I don't feel strange there, I feel like I've been completely accepted into the community. Alhamdulillah!
:w:
:sl:

I have no idea where Snienton is :?

Anyways alhmdualiah the muslims at the masjid you attend have been welcoming. Unfortanly not every brother or sister gets that type of reception from some of our muslim bretherns but thats another story of its own.
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Fishman
08-01-2006, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Durrah
:sl:

I have no idea where Snienton is :?

Anyways alhmdualiah the muslims at the masjid you attend have been welcoming. Unfortanly not every brother or sister gets that type of reception from some of our muslim bretherns but thats another story of its own.
:sl:
Sorry, I spelt the name wrong, it should be Sneinton.
:w:
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afriend2
08-01-2006, 07:36 PM
salaam,

erm...some parts in britain are worse than others. for example brighton is full of lovely people mashAllah and you get a sense of security and understanding, however in parts like *cough isle of dogs cough* a lot of Islamophobic behaviour runs there!

i wouldnt mind moving to different places, however youre going to get this kind of thing in loads of places. and in Saudi Arabic, they wont let you live there due to the circumstances.

and on the subjects of chavs......i wonder why they have that walk where they look like theyre tripping!!!
Allahu Alam
wassalam :peace:
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