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d12s
05-30-2005, 01:55 AM
Could someone please explain to me why the kuran (the words of Allah), written by man on paper made by man are held so sacred, yet man himself (the creation of
Allah), is murdered continually in his name. Bombings of innocent men,women,children. Beheadings of men because of there differing beliefs. Is this what Allah would have done?
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Ra`eesah
05-30-2005, 03:28 AM
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance.


First I want to take the time out to thank you and welcome you for joining us here on Load Islam. Secondly, what you said is not a question It seems to me that your making a statement and adding a ‘?” mark after it, however I will reply with this...

* 3 Irish Republican Catholics blew up a shopping center in London and killed 15 people.

* Michael Mulliken, a Jewish activist who paid millions of dollars to the Jewish cause was convicted of bank and securities fraud in excess of 2 billion dollars (after only 4 years in prison he was recently released)

* The hillside strangler was a young Mexican Christian who was convicted of murdering 12 women.

* 3 black Christian men robbed and killed a Jewish family of 5 in the Simi Valley area.

The list is endless. The difference with these crimes and the bombing is that no one mentions what religion those people were. The crimes have one essential thing in common, they were done by violent and dangerous people. Their religion is NOT what makes them dangerous and immoral, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam did not sanction their crimes! Religions should not be judged by the crimes its followers commit, but rather by what it tries to teach its people. None of the monotheistic religions teach people to be criminals, yet religion cannot prevent immoral behavior. All religion can do is show people the right way to live and promise them a paradise in the hereafter as long as they follow it. Those who choose to go against the teachings of God will be punished in this life and on the day of judgement. This is what religion teaches us.

In summary:

A. We do not judge Islam by what a few Muslims do. We judge Islam by what is said in the Quran.

B. We do not judge Christianity by what a few Christians do. We judge Christianity by what is said in the Bible.

C. We do not judge Judaism by what a few Jewish people do. We judge Judaism by what is said in the Torah.




I hope I didn’t offend you in anyway.Please if you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask.I am sure the brothers and sisters here on this forum are more then happy to help you understand the religion and way of life of that which is called Islam. :D
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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-30-2005, 05:42 AM
:sl:
welcome to our forums, dear d12s. :)

Could someone please explain to me why the kuran (the words of Allah), written by man on paper made by man are held so sacred,
If you're thinking about the Alledged Qur'an Desecration, it's been discussed here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=2331

A quote of mine from that thread:
First of all, no one is condoning violence here. The Qur'an and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad saws strictly forbid such behaviour.

However, we need to understand why there is such outrage. The words of our Creator, Most High and Exalted, have been thrown into a toilet, to rot in feces and urine. This is an unspeakable crime of the worst nature.

If you knew how much respect and reverence Muslims give to the words of God, you would understand the terrible nature of this crime. Muslims only read the Qur'an after they have washed themselves. They do not touch it while in a state if impurity. They keep it in a lofty position, and off the floor.

Even a paper with the name of God on it, cannot be thrown in the garbage, so imagine what it is like for an entire book containing the words of God.

We have a right to be outraged. This is not condoning any violence, but I hope you can appreciate the significance of such a crime. I hope I have placed it into perspective.
The Qur'an is God's Last revelation to Humanity, and hence is regarded with the utmost reverance.

yet man himself (the creation of
Allah), is murdered continually in his name.
Such a thing is forbidden. Muslims regard human life with the utmost reverance as well and love and respect all of God's creation.

The Qur'an says:
[17:33] Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)

41:34 Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!

5:32...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people



Bombings of innocent men,women,children. Beheadings of men because of there differing beliefs. Is this what Allah would have done?
It seems like you have some of the common misconceptions about Islam. I encourage you to read the following links:
http://islamdenouncesterrorism.com/
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=60
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...hp?category=15


I will also provide you with an article:
Originally Posted by Top Misconceptions about Islam
Muslims are violent, terrorists, and extremists!

This is the biggest misconception in Islam, no doubt resulting from the constant stereotyping and bashing the media gives Islam. When a gunman attacks a mosque in the name of Judaism, a Catholic IRA guerrilla sets off a bomb in an urban area, or Serbian Orthodox militiamen rape and kill innocent Muslim civilians, these acts are not used to stereotype an entire faith. Never are these acts attributed to the religion of the perpetrators. Yet how many times have we heard the words 'Islamic, Muslim fundamentalist. etc.' linked with violence.

Politics in so called “Muslim countries" may or may not have any Islamic basis. Often dictators and politicians will use the name of Islam for their own purposes. One should remember to go to the source of Islam and separate what the true religion of Islam says from what is portrayed in the media. Islam literally means 'submission to God' and is derived from a root word meaning 'peace'.

Islam may seem exotic or even extreme in the modern world. Perhaps this is because religion doesn’t dominate everyday life in the West, whereas Islam is considered a 'way of life' for Muslims and they make no division between secular and sacred in their lives. Like Christianity, Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock.

NOWHERE DOES ISLAM ENJOIN THE KILLING OF INNOCENTS... The Qur’an says: "Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." (Qur’an 2:190) "If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things." (Qur’an 8:61) War, therefore, is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term 'jihad' literally means 'struggle'. Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad. The other 'jihad' is the inner struggle of the soul which everyone wages against egotistic desires for the sake of attaining inner peace.

Islam oppresses women.

The image of the typical Muslim woman wearing the veil and forced to stay home and forbidden to drive is all too common in most peoples’ thoughts. Although some Muslim countries may have laws that oppress women, this should not be seen as coming from Islam. Many of these countries do not rule by any kind of Shari'ah (Islamic law) and introduce their own cultural standpoints on the issue of gender equity.

Islam on the other hand gives men and women different roles and equity between the two is laid down in the Qur’an and the example of the Prophet (peace be upon him). Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her property and earnings. A marriage gift is given by the groom to the bride for her own personal use, and she keeps her own family name rather than taking her husband's. Both men and women are expected to dress in a way which is modest and dignified. The Messenger of God (peace be upon him) said: "The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his wife."

Violence of any kind towards women and forcing them against their will for anything is not allowed. A Muslim marriage is a simple, legal agreement in which either partner is free to include conditions.
Marriage customs thus vary widely from country to country. Divorce is not common, although it is acceptable as a last resort. According to Islam, a Muslim girl cannot be forced to marry against her will: her parents simply suggest young men they think may be suitable.

Muslims worship a different God

Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. Allah for Muslims is the greatest and most inclusive of the Names of God, it is an Arabic word of rich meaning, denoting the one and only God and ascribing no partners to Him. It is exactly the same word which the Jews, in Hebrew, use for God (eloh), the word which Jesus Christ used in Aramaic when he prayed to God. God has an identical name in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam; Allah is the same God worshiped by Muslims, Christians and Jews. Muslims believe that Allah's sovereignty is to be acknowledged in worship and in the pledge to obey His teaching and commandments, conveyed through His messengers and prophets who were sent at various times and in many places throughout history.

Islam was spread by the sword and is intolerant of other faiths

Many social studies textbooks for students show the image of an Arab horseman carrying a sword in one hand and the Qur’an in the other conquering and forcibly converting. This, though, is not a correct portrayal of history. Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. The Qur’an says: "God forbids you not, with regards to those who fight you not for [your] faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them; for God loveth those who are just." (60:8) Freedom of religion is laid down in the Qur’an itself: "There is no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error". (2:256)

Christian missionary, T.W. Arnold had this opinion on his study of the question of the spread of Islam: "... Of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestantism ..."

It is a function of Islamic law to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world. History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths: when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city.

Proclaiming to the inhabitants that their lives, and property were safe, and that their places of worship would never be taken from them, he asked the Christian patriarch Sophronius to accompany him on a visit to all the holy places. Islamic law also permits non-Muslim minorities to set up their own courts, which implement family laws drawn up by the minorities themselves. The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether the person is Muslim or not.

Racism is not a part of Islam, the Qur’an speaks only of human equality and how all peoples are equal in the sight of God. "O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God's sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All- Aware." (49:13)

All Muslims are Arabs

The Muslim population of the world is around 1.4 billion. 1 out of 4 people in the world is a Muslim. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World and North America. They are a vast range of races, nationalities, and cultures from around the globe--from the Philippines to Nigeria--they are united by their common Islamic faith. Only about 18% live in the Arab world and the largest Muslim community is in Indonesia. Most Muslims live east of Pakistan. 30% of Muslims live in the Indian subcontinent, 20% in Sub-Saharan Africa, 17% in Southeast Asia, 18% in the Arab world, and 10% in the Soviet Union and China. Turkey, Iran and Afghanistan make up 10% of the non-Arab Middle East. Although there are Muslim minorities in almost every area, including Latin America and Australia, they are most numerous in Russia and its newly independent states, India and central Africa. There are about 8 million Muslims in the United States.

The Nation of Islam is a Muslim group

Islam and the so called “Nation of Islam'" are two different religions. Muslims consider this group to be just one of many cults using the name of Islam for their own gain. The only thing common between them is the jargon, the language used by both. "The Nation of Islam" is a misnomer; this religion should be called Farrakhanism, after the name of its propagator, Louis Farrakhan.

Islam and Farakhanism differ in many fundamental ways. For example, Farrakhan followers believe in racism and that the 'black man' was the original man and therefore superior, while in Islam there is no racism and everyone is considered equal in the sight of God, the only difference being in one's piety. There are many other theological examples that show the 'Nation's teachings have little to do with true Islam. There are many groups in America who claim to represent Islam and call their adherents Muslims.

Any serious student of Islam has a duty to investigate and find the true Islam. The only two authentic sources which bind every Muslim are 1. The Quran and 2. Authentic or sound Hadith. Any teachings under the label of "Islam" which contradict or at variance with the direct understanding of fundamental beliefs and practices of Islam form the Quran and authentic Hadith should be rejected and such a religion should be considered a Pseudo-Islamic Cult. In America there are many pseudo-Islamic cults, Farrakhanism being one of them. An honest attitude on the part of such cults should be not to call themselves Muslims and their religion Islam. Such an example of honesty is Bahaism which is an off-shoot of Islam but Bahais do not call themselves Muslims nor their religion, Islam. In fact Bahaism is not Islam just as Farrakhanism is not Islam.

All Muslim men marry four wives

The religion of Islam was revealed for all societies and all times and so accommodates widely differing social requirements. Circumstances may warrant the taking of another wife but the right is granted, according to the Quran, only on condition that the husband is scrupulously fair. No woman can be forced into this kind of marriage if they do not wish it, and they also have the right to exclude it in their marriage contract.
Polygamy is neither mandatory, nor encouraged, but merely permitted. Images of "sheikhs with harems" are not consistent with Islam, as a man is only allowed at most four wives only if he can fulfill the stringent conditions of treating each fairly and providing each with separate housing etc. Permission to practice polygamy is not associated with mere satisfaction of passion. It is rather associated with compassion toward widows and orphans. It was the Quran that limited and put conditions on the practice of polygamy among the Arabs, who had as many as ten or more wives and considered them "property". It is both honest and accurate to say that it is Islam which regulated this practice, limited it, made it more humane and instituted equal rights and status for all wives. What the Qur'anic decrees amount to, taken together is discouragement of polygamy unless necessity for it exists. It is also evident that the general rule in Islam is monogamy and not polygamy. It is a very tiny percentage of Muslims that practice it over the world. However, permission to practice limited polygamy is only consistent with Islam's realistic view of the nature of man and woman and of various social needs, problems and cultural variations. The question is, however far more than the inherent flexibility of Islam; it also is the frank and straightforward approach of Islam in dealing with practical problems. Rather than requiring hypocritical
and superficial compliance, Islam delves deeper into the problems of individuals and societies, and provides for legitimate and clean solutions which are far more beneficial than would be the case if they were ignored. There is no doubt that the second wife legally married and treated kindly is better off than a mistress without any legal rights or expermanence.

Muslims are a barbaric, backwards people

Among the reasons for the rapid and peaceful spread of Islam was the simplicity of its doctrine-Islam calls for faith in only one God worthy of worship. It also repeatedly instructs man to use his powers of intelligence and observation. Within a few years, great civilizations and universities were flourishing, for according to the Prophet (pbuh), 'seeking knowledge is an obligation for every Muslim man and woman'.

The synthesis of Eastern and Western ideas and of new thought with old, brought about great advances in medicine, mathematics, physics, astronomy, geography, architecture, art, literature, and history.
Many crucial systems such as algebra, the Arabic numerals, and also the concept of the zero (vital to the advancement of mathematics), were transmitted to medieval Europe from Islam. Sophisticated instruments which were to make possible the European voyages of discovery were developed, including the astrolabe, the quadrant and good navigational maps.

Muhammad was the founder of Islam and Muslims worship him

Muhammad (pbuh) was born in Mecca in the year 570. Since his father died before his birth, and his mother shortly afterwards, he was raised by his uncle from the respected tribe of Quraysh. As he grew up, he became known for his truthfulness, generosity and sincerity, so that he was sought after for his ability to arbitrate in disputes. The historians describe him as calm and meditative. Muhammad (pbuh) was of a deeply religious nature, and had long detested the decadence of his society.

It became his habit to meditate from time to time in the Cave of Hira near Mecca. At the age of 40, while engaged in a meditative retreat, Muhammad (pbuh) received his first revelation from God through the Angel Gabriel. This revelation, which continued for 23 years, is known as the Quran. As soon as he began to recite the words he heard from Gabriel, and to preach the truth which God had revealed to him, he and his small group of followers suffered bitter persecution, which grew so fierce that in the year 622 God gave them the command to emigrate.

This event, the Hijra 'migration', in which they left Mecca for the city of Medina, marks the beginning of the Muslim calendar. After several years, the Prophet and his followers were able to return to Mecca, where they forgave their enemies and established Islam definitively. Before the Prophet saw dies at the age of 63, the greater part of Arabia was Muslim, and within a century of his death Islam had spread to Spain in the West and as far East as China. He died with less than 5 possessions to his name.

While Muhammad (pbuh) was chosen to deliver the message, he is not considered the "founder" of Islam, since Muslims consider Islam to be the same divine guidance sent to all peoples before. Muslims believe
all the prophets from Adam, Noah, Moses, Jesus etc. were all sent with divine guidance for their peoples. Every prophet was sent to his own people, but Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to all of mankind. Muhammad
is the last and final messenger sent to deliver the message of Islam. Muslims revere and honor him (pbuh) for all he went through and his dedication, but they do not worship him. "O Prophet, verily We have sent you as a witness and a bearer of glad tidings and a warner and as one who invites unto God by His leave and as an illuminating lamp." (33:45-6)

Muslims don't believe in Jesus or any other prophets

Muslims respect and revere Jesus, upon him be peace, and await his Second Coming. They consider him one of the greatest of God's messengers to mankind. A Muslim never refers to him simply as 'Jesus', but always adds the phrase 'upon him be peace' (abbreviated as (u) here). The Quran confirms his virgin birth (a chapter of the Quran is entitled 'Mary'), and Mary is considered the purest woman in all creation. The Quran describes the Annunciation as follows: "Behold!" the Angel said, "God has chosen you, and purified you, and chosen you above the women of all nations. O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him whose name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near to God. He shall speak to the people from his cradle and in maturity, and shall be of the righteous." She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me?" He said: "Even so; God creates what He will. When He decrees a thing, He says to it, "Be!" and it is" (Quran 3:42-47)

Jesus (u) was born miraculously through the same power which had brought Adam (u) into being without a father: "Truly, the likeness of Jesus with God is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then said to him, 'Be!' and he was." (3:59) during his prophetic mission Jesus (u) performed many miracles. The Quran tells us that he said: " I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by God's leave. And I heal the blind, and the lepers, and I raise the dead by God's leave." (3:49) Neither Muhammad (pbuh) not Jesus (u) came to change the basic doctrine of the brief in One God brought by earlier prophets, but to confirm and renew it.

In the Qur’an Jesus (u) is reported as saying that he came: "To attest the law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden you; I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey Me. (3:50) The Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said: "Whoever believes there is no god but God, alone without partner, that Muhammad(pbuh) is His messenger, that Jesus is the servant and messenger of God, His word breathed into Mary and a spirit emanating from Him, and that Paradise and Hell are true, shall be received by God into Heaven. "(Hadith related by Bukhari)

Source: beconvinced.com
:w:
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imaad_udeen
05-30-2005, 04:26 PM
On Jesus (peace be on him) I like story of when Muhammed (peace be on him) finally took Mecca, he cleared the Ka'ba of all false idols except for a single painting of Mary and the baby Jesus (peace be on him).

Muslims have much respect for Jesus (peace be on him).
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Ansar Al-'Adl
05-30-2005, 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by imaad_udeen
On Jesus (peace be on him) I like story of when Muhammed (peace be on him) finally took Mecca, he cleared the Ka'ba of all false idols except for a single painting of Mary and the baby Jesus (peace be on him).

Muslims have much respect for Jesus (peace be on him).
:sl: Brother,
Muslims do not tolerate any pictures of the Prophet Muhammad saws, does that we mean we don't respect him? Of course not. Muslims do not depict any of the Prophets, we consider that to be a sign of disrespect.

I'm not sure how authentic the story you're referring to is. If you have the source, It would be a good idea to post it.

But just to clarify that Muslims do not accept idols of anyone, regardless of who they are. Having said that, Muslims greatly respect Prophet Jesus as one of the five mighties Messengers sent by God to humanity (the others were Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad, peace be upon them all).

:w:
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aamirsaab
05-30-2005, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by d12s
Could someone please explain to me why the kuran (the words of Allah), written by man on paper made by man are held so sacred, yet man himself (the creation of
Allah), is murdered continually in his name. Bombings of innocent men,women,children. Beheadings of men because of there differing beliefs. Is this what Allah would have done?
hehe nice post - originality - you spelt quran wrong though.

anyways, the quran is as sacred as any religious book primarily because it is the word(s) of God.

A man/woman is in charge of his or her own actions - it is human nature to kill - look at the history of the world - humans have been killing each other for a very long time (e.g. world war 1 and 2 etc)
Sadly i cant answer the last question ("is this what allah would have done?") because I am nothing like Allah - I can't compare myself to Him - it would be foolish for any sane man/woman to do so.
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sardab
05-31-2005, 07:09 AM
:sl:

If oppressors do not have any respect for creations of Allah, then we have to move against them, out of our respect for creations of Allah.

:w:
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