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sonz
07-30-2006, 09:27 AM
Leading figures in the Canadian Muslim Community are warning that police and intelligence agencies are paying Muslim informants to spy on members of the community and install spies in every major mosque in Toronto, Globe and Mail wrote.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service claims it installs spies to “report on people, not places”.

“If they're following certain people, an imam for example, and that imam is spending a lot of time at the mosque, then [the informant] is also spending a lot of time at the mosque,” said Yahya Fadalla, a Hamilton-based Imam who also has a doctorate in computer science with a specialization in cyber terrorism and information warfare.

Fahim Ahmad, a devout Muslim from Toronto who has been accused of being a leader of 17 people suspected of involvement in "terror-related offences" last month, was himself once offered to become a spy.

Paying Muslim informants to spy on fellow Muslims has been an issue of heated debate since Mubin Sheikh publicly admitted that he played an integral part in that investigation.

“If [intelligence authorities] want to do anything, it has to be done through the Muslims,” he said in an interview. “Of course they're going to have eyes and ears everywhere.”

Mr. Sheikh added that intelligence authorities have many spies installed within the community.

Canadian authorities have increased the number of spies they hire to report on Muslim community members.

Aly Hindi, Imam of the Salaheddin Islamic Centre in Scarborough said spies had long been following him.

Spies infiltrate the Muslim Community in various ways, Mr. Fadalla said, adding that sometimes an informant is paid to just keep eyes and ears open for what authorities call “suspicious activities”.

Some Muslims are raising concerns over the credibility of information provided to the authorities by spies, who might seek to present any information to increase their income.

Abdul Hai Patel, head of the Canadian Islamic Council of Imams raised other concerns:

“People know that if I don't like you, I can say you're involved in terror activity and they have to investigate,” he said, recalling an incident that took place last year, involving a Muslim woman who wanted to divorce her husband.


The woman’s husband, who refused to divorce her, claimed that her brother was involved in some hidden “terrorist activity”.

But no evidence was ever found to support his claim.

“It has become a tool of revenge in the community,” Mr. Patel said.
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HeiGou
07-30-2006, 09:39 AM
Originally Posted by sonz
Leading figures in the Canadian Muslim Community are warning that police and intelligence agencies are paying Muslim informants to spy on members of the community and install spies in every major mosque in Toronto, Globe and Mail wrote.
Why are they warning anyone of anything? Why aren't they welcoming what the police are doing? Surely (OK that's a bit sarcastic I admit) they don't want terrorists using their mosques and recruiting their children? Why aren't they telling their members to come forward and report suspects for free?

Abdul Hai Patel, head of the Canadian Islamic Council of Imams raised other concerns:

“People know that if I don't like you, I can say you're involved in terror activity and they have to investigate,” he said, recalling an incident that took place last year, involving a Muslim woman who wanted to divorce her husband.

The woman’s husband, who refused to divorce her, claimed that her brother was involved in some hidden “terrorist activity”.

But no evidence was ever found to support his claim.

“It has become a tool of revenge in the community,” Mr. Patel said.
Then surely the sensible thing is to denounce people who misuse police time and resources for private gain? Is it Islamic to denounce your brother-in-law for terrorism when he is innocent? If not, and I bet it isn't, why not condemn that instead of undermining the police?

Moreover why does this report use the word "spies"? That demonstrates both the prejudice and attitudes of the reporter perfectly. Canadian Muslims help the police - as all good citizens ought to in terrorism cases - and these people think that is a bad thing?
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Dawud_uk
07-30-2006, 10:14 AM
peace heigou,

it isnt that simple a situation,

look the authorities and the muslims are always going to disagree on what is terrorism.

for example if i knew someone was going to somalia to help the islamic militia kick out the warlords and their foreign backers i would never consider that terrorism but the western governments would do.

so muslims are being paid to sell their deen and their brothers and sisters in islam for a small worldly price and then turning them in, because the community would never denounce such people.

the UK government brags there isnt a masjid in the country that dont have an informant in or have the place bugged.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Daw'ud
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HeiGou
07-30-2006, 11:11 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
it isnt that simple a situation,

look the authorities and the muslims are always going to disagree on what is terrorism.
I agree entirely. That is kind of the problem. However Muslims also have an obligation to obey the law and so the Authorities' view on terrorism is not irrelevant. Why are the Muslim authorities not demanding their members support the police? There are clearly cases of terrorism where no one, I would hope, would disagree. The 7-7 attacks. The alleged Canadian plot, if true, should have been denounced to the police. Why is it wrong for the man who did tell the police to have told the police about that one?

for example if i knew someone was going to somalia to help the islamic militia kick out the warlords and their foreign backers i would never consider that terrorism but the western governments would do.
Quite likely. But even then Imams are capable of a more nuanced approach if they like - no terrorist attacks on civilians for instance.

the UK government brags there isnt a masjid in the country that dont have an informant in or have the place bugged.
Where have they bragged about that? If only it were true!
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snakelegs
07-30-2006, 11:27 AM
sonz,
i know you spend time searching for articles you think would be of interest to people here (and they are) - and i think that is nice of you.
but i wonder why you will never give a link to the actual source?
some times you will write "aljazeera"
this is not the same as a link that would take me to the original story.
it also does not tell me if it is aljazeera.com or aljazeera.net/ - they are different - aljazeera.net at least strives for fairness and objectivity, while aljazeera.com does not.
the main reason this matters is that many forums are stricter about this than this one. so, if you post something that i want to share with another forum, i can not because i have no link.
so if you could give a link to the source in the future, i would appreciate it.
thanks.
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snakelegs
07-30-2006, 11:51 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Why are they warning anyone of anything? Why aren't they welcoming what the police are doing? Surely (OK that's a bit sarcastic I admit) they don't want terrorists using their mosques and recruiting their children? Why aren't they telling their members to come forward and report suspects for free?

Then surely the sensible thing is to denounce people who misuse police time and resources for private gain? Is it Islamic to denounce your brother-in-law for terrorism when he is innocent? If not, and I bet it isn't, why not condemn that instead of undermining the police?

Moreover why does this report use the word "spies"? That demonstrates both the prejudice and attitudes of the reporter perfectly. Canadian Muslims help the police - as all good citizens ought to in terrorism cases - and these people think that is a bad thing?
this seems perfectly reasonable to me. i know a couple of muslims in toronto who got so disgusted at the hatred they heard in their mosques that they no longer go to mosque at all, which i think is kind of sad. you don't go to a religious service to hear hate, after all.
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Zulkiflim
07-30-2006, 08:36 PM
Salaam,

Trully those who sell faith for a paltry price shall suffer in the end times.

Astarfillah...

May Allah be merciful to them.
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