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wilberhum
07-31-2006, 07:12 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/28/sea...ing/index.html
A U.S. Muslim citizen of Pakistani descent walked into the Jewish Federation in downtown Seattle, Washington building just after 4 p.m. Friday armed with a large caliber semi-automatic handgun and opened fire after asking for the manager, One person was killed and five others were wounded, three critically.

The local news reported that he said it was because of what Israel was doing in Lebanon.

This happened just 3 blocks from where I work. It made me think of the hundreds of hate filled statements I have seen of this forum. I wonder if any of you hate posters have ever thought that your words might inspire someone to kill innocent people.

All of the victims were women, one of them is pregnant. Surly these women had great influence on ME affairs. To level such hate on someone only because they belong to the same religion as a foreign government is a common form of hate crimes.

Next time you make a “Hate Post”, maybe you should think about what you might become responsible for.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
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lavikor201
07-31-2006, 07:17 PM
If this happend in a Mosque people here would be outraged. But since the people who are victims are Jews, and the shooter was a Muslim of Pakistani descent, I doubt you will get huge outrage here.
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wilberhum
07-31-2006, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
If this happend in a Mosque people here would be outraged. But since the people who are victims are Jews, and the shooter was a Muslim of Pakistani descent, I doubt you will get huge outrage here.
Huge outrage? I expect no outrage for the reasons that you mentioned.
I just hope 1 hate poster will stop and think.
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aamirsaab
07-31-2006, 08:57 PM
:sl:
There are a lot of planks in the world. I thank God I'm not one of them.

The plank that carried out this act is a scumbag. Killing of civilians is wrong. This guy is a super plank for doing so.
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Sis786
08-01-2006, 08:38 AM
It has nothing to do with the HATE mail. This man like many must have been watching the news on TV and this has led him to take this action.

i dont believe in killing innocents and thats why i hate ISRAEL and all her allies. I before this war in Lebanom would have liked to believe that NO ISRAEL aint that bad and no Amercia doesnt have a grudge agaisnt the Muslim world but this war was uncalled for and its clear the intentions of the West.

Im not saying that this man has done is right but maybe you should stop and think that many preg women and small children are being killed in the same manner and in larger numbers in Pal and in Lebanom.

Sometimes it takes action for some to think...lets hope that the lives lost in this attack will make the wider community see that innocents being killed for no reason is no joke and this needs to stop whereever!
Reply

SirZubair
08-01-2006, 08:50 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Im not saying that this man has done is right but maybe you should stop and think that many preg women and small children are being killed in the same manner and in larger numbers in Pal and in Lebanom.
If that man had his Islamic Thinking Cap on at the time, he would have realised that Islam doesn't believe in Collective guilt. So killing a group of innocent people for something that They have no part in, is unislamic. ( i am not saying you said it is islamic :) )

We as muslims should always Remember that : No soul bears the burden of another soul.

I am sure all christians on this forum agree with that statement.
Reply

Sis786
08-01-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by SirZubair


If that man had his Islamic Thinking Cap on at the time, he would have realised that Islam doesn't believe in Collective guilt. So killing a group of innocent people for something that They have no part in, is unislamic. ( i am not saying you said it is islamic :) )

We as muslims should always Remember that : No soul bears the burden of another soul.

I am sure all christians on this forum agree with that statement.
I agree with you, but im trying to expain that sometimes what we see can drive us to do insane things, This man was clearly upset with what he saw that he would kill someone else in daylight and ovbs bear the consequences!
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Muezzin
08-01-2006, 11:38 AM
I hope this guy is punished in accordance with the law. There is no excuse for such behaviour. This guy must have been angry at Lebanese civilians being killed by Israeli bombs - but shooting civilians lowers him to the same level of his perceived enemies.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-01-2006, 11:43 AM
Those killed where not a victim of hate but a victim of something else. The man who killed them acted out of rage and most probably out of a lack of knowledge of islam. Rage can do terrible things indeed but its not suprising, its even more suprising that more such things are not taking place. If i had family in lebanon that got killed by the israelli's Allah knows what the rage will make me do.


Audhubillah !!

:peace:

PS: Agreed wiv Muezzin
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Silver
08-01-2006, 11:56 AM
This man's crime is in no ways justified whatever his motives were even if he was angry about what's going on here in Lebanon or here in Palestine.What did he get form killing innocent people?
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HeiGou
08-01-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
It has nothing to do with the HATE mail. This man like many must have been watching the news on TV and this has led him to take this action.
Yet somewhere, somehow, he must have got the idea that an appropriate response to murder in the Middle East, if that is what it is, is to murder some Jews in Canada. What is the connection between the TV news and some elderly Jews in Canada exactly? How did this man come to think there was one?

i dont believe in killing innocents and thats why i hate ISRAEL and all her allies.
And perhaps some of her enemies - aren't the Israelis killed in night clubs and on buses and in playgrounds innocent too?

b ut this war was uncalled for and its clear the intentions of the West.
To re-state the obvious, Hezbollah fired rockets on Israel, crossed the border, murdered some soldiers and kidnapped two others. They may have over-reacted but this war was provoked. Hezbollah did ask for it.

How are the intentions of the West clear?

Im not saying that this man has done is right but maybe you should stop and think that many preg women and small children are being killed in the same manner and in larger numbers in Pal and in Lebanom.
Perhaps you would support the British government if as a response to the 7-7 bombing they rounded up 52 LI posters at random and shot them in the back of the head? Sure it wouldn't be right but it would make some people stop and think. Do you really want to go down that path?

Sometimes it takes action for some to think...lets hope that the lives lost in this attack will make the wider community see that innocents being killed for no reason is no joke and this needs to stop whereever!
See above. If you are happy to support such a policy in Canada I am really coming around to the idea it might be worth a try in Britain. Do you think that burning 52 British Muslims at random and cutting the legs or poking out the eyes of over 700 others would be an appropriate response to the 7-7 bombings? If not, why do you come so very close to doing so in Canada?
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scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
If this happend in a Mosque people here would be outraged. But since the people who are victims are Jews, and the shooter was a Muslim of Pakistani descent, I doubt you will get huge outrage here.

we dont need to stress how such things are unacceptable in Islam..but then again didnt an angry jewish settler shoot an Israeli Arab two days later?..lets see some 'outrage' from you.
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scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 12:30 PM
Shooting suspect was baptized
Just part of the enigma he proved himself to friends

By SCOTT GUTIERREZ
P-I REPORTER

RICHLAND -- Those who knew Naveed Haq said Saturday that to them he was an enigma, a puzzle that they wish they could have solved before his deadly rampage in a Seattle Jewish center.

Stunned and saddened by the news, some of Haq's acquaintances recounted many of what they saw as the contradictions of his life.

He held a degree in electrical engineering and was the son of a successful engineer, yet he couldn't keep a regular job. He was smart, creative and skilled as a writer. He recently won an essay contest for a U.S. Institute of Peace scholarship.

Yet Haq was frustrated at his lack of friends and female companionship.He told friends he felt alienated from his own family, in part because his career had disappointed his father and also because he had disavowed Islam last year, converting to Christianity.

Haq had begun studying the Bible, attending weekly men's spiritual group meetings, only to stop coming a few months after his baptism.

He had told the group's leader that he seen too much anger in Islam and that he wanted to find a new beginning in Christianity.

Yet in the midst of his shooting spree in Seattle Friday, he declared himself an angry Muslim.

Acquaintances said he never seemed the fanatic religious extremist he played out on Friday. Instead some think his anger was really directed at problems in his personal and professional life.

"Naveed had the profile of the guy who just couldn't get things together," said Erik Neilsen, a Richland resident who let Haq live with him for three months in 2004. He said he thinks several problems compounded for Haq, and he just exploded.



"I wish I could have done something about it. I look back in retrospect and say 'Is there anything I could have done.'"

Last winter, Haq began attending a weekly men's group meeting led by a member of the Word of Faith Church in Kennewick.

The group's leader, Albert Montelongo, said Haq started studying the Bible and in December he underwent a water baptism at the non-denominational church, performed by Montelongo. He said Haq accepted his new faith, though he knew that he would also be offending his own family and its deeply rooted culture. His father, Mian Haq, was among the founders of the Islamic Center of the Tri-Cities in Richland.

Montelongo said Haq seemed depressed by the tension that had grown between him and his family. And he said Haq talked about suffering from bipolar disorder. But that he seemed to improve in how he coped with what Montelongo described as his own anger.

A few months after he was baptized, though, Haq stopped coming to the men's group meetings. Montelongo last heard from Haq in a message that said he was going to Seattle to find a job. He said he tried to call Haq several times but never reached him.

Then on Friday, Montelongo said he saw the news in Seattle and thought the man in police custody looked like Haq.

"I don't understand that. That throws me off from everything he was doing here," Montelongo said. "That blew me away."

"We'll be praying for him and everybody that was hurt in what happened, and everybody that's involved in it," Montelongo said.

At the Islamic Center of Tri-Cities, a senior member, Muhammad Kaleem Ullah, said that Haq stopped attending regularly after he graduated from Richland High School in 1994. He said Haq would attend off and on while visiting his parents and that he surprised members on a Friday two weeks ago with a visit.

"This is a totally sad day for us. This is the closest I've ever come to something like this," said Ullah. "What could have been going on in his brain has been very hard to figure out."

After high school, Haq enrolled in dentistry school at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y., something his father encouraged. But after about four years of study, Haq decided to quit school and return home. That also created some tension between father and son, Ullah said.

Instead Haq went to Washington State University, where he earned a degree in electrical engineering.

Efforts to reach his family were unsuccessful.

In March, Haq was arrested for lewd conduct at a Tri-Cities mall. It was Ullah he called to bail him out of jail, because he was too embarrassed to call his own family, Ullah said.

The family was very distraught at Friday's events, Ullah said, based on a conversation he had with Haq's father after his son's arrest.

Haq apparently moved back and forth between Tri-Cities and Seattle while he was looking for employment. At one point, he told Neilsen, the friend with whom he lived for a few months in 2004, that he was working as a security guard at a Seattle area department store. Neilsen said he'd lost touch with Haq until about six weeks ago when he got an e-mail from Haq, saying his friend had started work at a Home Depot store in Everett.

He said it seemed odd that someone with a degree in engineering had taken an unskilled job. It seemed to him that Haq had trouble keeping steady employment and that he often lacked focus in his career.

Neilsen said he thinks Haq's issues with family, his religion and even his social life just compounded. He said he believed his friend wanted desperately to fit into mainstream U.S. society. But he felt like an outcast in his own family.

Neilsen, a fellow engineer, said he was deeply saddened at Friday's news.

"I've had conversations with him; he'd come over and we'd have a cigar in my back yard and have a nice talk. And all of a sudden, it's like 'What happened? What happened to you?'."

Scott Gutierrez can be reached at 206-448-8334 or scottgutierrez@seattlepi.com.
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Somalina
08-01-2006, 12:30 PM
´~salaam~

This is a trial,,and that man obvisously failed,,,If he truelly wanted to take action,he should have recruited to go to jihad against "THE KILLERS" the military of israel that is,,not the innocent civilians,
Allah is with those who have patience in tymes of great
difficulty,,

I am outraged about this war ,,i have no words to describe it,,Sometimes i feel
like am also waiting to be killed too,,i mean a man wrote wat the americans planned for the muslim nations,,iraq to lebanon to syria to iran,,it's just a matter of time and gathering "excuses"to wage a war

Heigou u mean to say,,lebanese "prisoners" are guilty for having defended their country thus are "war criminals,terrorists" and "NEED" to stay and die in israeli"prisons":? ,,Allahu Akbar,,Hezbollah has "A RIGHT TO BRING BACK THEIR FELLOW BROS AND SIS,AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES,,,

"..Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom." (al-An'am 6:151)

That's the Quran right there,Crystal clear,No Error indeed:)

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)
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Sis786
08-01-2006, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Yet somewhere, somehow, he must have got the idea that an appropriate response to murder in the Middle East, if that is what it is, is to murder some Jews in Canada. What is the connection between the TV news and some elderly Jews in Canada exactly? How did this man come to think there was one?
How do you know that its not appropriate to kill some random jew and this doesnt happen often so this man probarly did what he thought was a way to get back at the people of Israel. Again i will state that i dont agree with what has happened but this man has risked everything including his freedom. Why? is the question we should be asking this aint something normal what dorve this man, yes maybe a mintue of madness but why did he risk everything for something so stupid, why did her murder, these are the questions that should have been asked after 7/7 bombimgs these are the questions people fear asking!


Originally Posted by HeiGou
And perhaps some of her enemies - aren't the Israelis killed in night clubs and on buses and in playgrounds innocent too?
Yes i agree but to kill on top of killings is not helping as we can see above. Israels treatment of Pals has led people to hate them. They should look at tackling the terroism probelm rather than getting onvolved and creating more terror.


Originally Posted by HeiGou
To re-state the obvious, Hezbollah fired rockets on Israel, crossed the border, murdered some soldiers and kidnapped two others. They may have over-reacted but this war was provoked. Hezbollah did ask for it.
Oh so this called for FULL OUT WAR and the lives of many civillans!

Originally Posted by HeiGou
How are the intentions of the West clear?
Clear for those that wish to look closer at the whole war on terroism.


Originally Posted by HeiGou
Perhaps you would support the British government if as a response to the 7-7 bombing they rounded up 52 LI posters at random and shot them in the back of the head? Sure it wouldn't be right but it would make some people stop and think. Do you really want to go down that path?
Did i say i supported this man. Please mark the section i said this. All i said is that maybe this is how he saw this. This wasnt a random attack. This man went to murder someone why did he do it was what i was trying to answer i wasnt justifying his acts. AND no i wouldnt want to go down this path but clearly some do.


Originally Posted by HeiGou
See above. If you are happy to support such a policy in Canada I am really coming around to the idea it might be worth a try in Britain. Do you think that burning 52 British Muslims at random and cutting the legs or poking out the eyes of over 700 others would be an appropriate response to the 7-7 bombings? If not, why do you come so very close to doing so in Canada?
Thats a stupid question and im not even gonna try and answer this. May i make a suggestion that you read my post before replying...
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Genius
08-01-2006, 02:04 PM
Actually the guy was a Muslim apostate to christianity. MUST DO RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING PROPAGANDA.
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scentsofjannah
08-01-2006, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Genius
Actually the guy was a Muslim apostate to christianity. MUST DO RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING PROPAGANDA.

*sigh* if only
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HeiGou
08-01-2006, 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
How do you know that its not appropriate to kill some random jew
I was brought up right. Why do you think there is any doubt?

and this doesnt happen often so this man probarly did what he thought was a way to get back at the people of Israel.
Sure. But someone taught this man to hate enough to kill innocent Canadians as a way of getting back at Israel. It is about that hate.

Again i will state that i dont agree with what has happened but this man has risked everything including his freedom.
I love that "but".

He risked what exactly? I can't believe he has killed an innocent person and you make it sound like he was a hero.

why did her murder, these are the questions that should have been asked after 7/7 bombimgs these are the questions people fear asking!
I agree we should have asked those questions after 7-7. And it is still not too late.

Did i say i supported this man. Please mark the section i said this. All i said is that maybe this is how he saw this. This wasnt a random attack. This man went to murder someone why did he do it was what i was trying to answer i wasnt justifying his acts. AND no i wouldnt want to go down this path but clearly some do.
You come very close to it and you are defending him. It was a random attack. He chose to murder some Jews. Nothing to do with Israel at all. You do not know why he did what he did, you are inferring it. You are assuming what is reasonable and just to you is reasonable and just to him. That tells us a lot about you.

Thats a stupid question and im not even gonna try and answer this. May i make a suggestion that you read my post before replying...
I don't think it is any more stupid than yours. How does what is going on in Lebanon relate in any way to the murder of a Canadian woman?
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HeiGou
08-01-2006, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Genius
Actually the guy was a Muslim apostate to christianity. MUST DO RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING PROPAGANDA.
And the evidence for this is what exactly?
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Sis786
08-01-2006, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I was brought up right. Why do you think there is any doubt?
No but what is right, this man may have not been bought up like you. What is wrong to you maybe right to him and that includes revenge.


Originally Posted by HeiGou
Sure. But someone taught this man to hate enough to kill innocent Canadians as a way of getting back at Israel. It is about that hate.
What you telling me it took this someone to tell this man to hate, Heigou its easy to start hating by putting your TV on. The Unjustice is there on the TV. We all see it on the News all day.

Originally Posted by HeiGou
I love that "but

He risked what exactly? I can't believe he has killed an innocent person and you make it sound like he was a hero.
Where did i say he was a hero or i said what he did is right, Im am trying to undertsand why a man did this what drove him. I fail to beleive i got up one morning and said "you know what i feel like killing a jew"


Originally Posted by HeiGou
I agree we should have asked those questions after 7-7. And it is still not too late.
No point if no one answers them!


Originally Posted by HeiGou
You come very close to it and you are defending him. It was a random attack. He chose to murder some Jews. Nothing to do with Israel at all. You do not know why he did what he did, you are inferring it.
I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM. I said i know this is wrong and there is nothing more i hate then innocents dying!:heated: BUT Im trying to explain why he MAY have done this. Im sure it wasnt for fun.

Originally Posted by HeiGou
You are assuming what is reasonable and just to you is reasonable and just to him. That tells us a lot about you.
No where did i say that. NO WAY would i do this or say this was right. But why it was done is something that im intrested in and you dont know me and you clearly have me confused.


Originally Posted by HeiGou
I don't think it is any more stupid than yours. How does what is going on in Lebanon relate in any way to the murder of a Canadian woman?
What question did i ask that was stupid?

The local news reported that he said it was because of what Israel was doing in Lebanon
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HeiGou
08-01-2006, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
No but what is right, this man may have not been bought up like you. What is wrong to you maybe right to him and that includes revenge.
Sure. And revenge on innocent people with no connection to the events in Lebanon except they happen to be the same religion as most of them. As I said, the problem is hatred. And bigotry. I agree he has not been brought up like me. I was not taught to hate and kill. He clearly was.

What you telling me it took this someone to tell this man to hate, Heigou its easy to start hating by putting your TV on. The Unjustice is there on the TV. We all see it on the News all day.
But it does not prompt many people to go out and shoot a bunch of women who have no link to the violence on TV at all. Someone taught him that if he saw these sort of things on TV the solution was to kill some Jews.

Where did i say he was a hero or i said what he did is right, Im am trying to undertsand why a man did this what drove him. I fail to beleive i got up one morning and said "you know what i feel like killing a jew"
From "understanding" to "excusing" is a small step and when you say things like "I am not saying what this man did was right, but...." what do you think you are doing?

No point if no one answers them!
I agree. Although I notice Ansar does not.

I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM. I said i know this is wrong and there is nothing more i hate then innocents dying!:heated: BUT Im trying to explain why he MAY have done this. Im sure it wasnt for fun.
But how can you know? I assume you do not know the man. You are projecting your feelings on to his actions.

The local news reported that he said it was because of what Israel was doing in Lebanon
Sure. As I said, the problem is that someone taught him the appropriate response to violence in the Middle East is to murder Canadians.
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wilberhum
08-01-2006, 05:17 PM
Sis786
It has nothing to do with the HATE mail. This man like many must have been watching the news on TV and this has led him to take this action.
I assume you are correct. But maybe the next one will be set off by hate posts. Will you be the one that makes that post that inspires someone to kill?

i dont believe in killing innocents and thats why i hate ISRAEL and all her allies.
So why don’t you hate everyone that kills innocents? Why do you stand up for some groups that kill innocents? I can come to only one conclusion; it has nothing to do with killing innocents, that’s just your excuse to justify your hate.

I before this war in Lebanom would have liked to believe that NO ISRAEL aint that bad and no Amercia doesnt have a grudge agaisnt the Muslim world but this war was uncalled for and its clear the intentions of the West.
Sounds like you were just waiting for an excuse. No condemnation for those that attacked Israel but condemnation if Israel responds.

Im not saying that this man has done is right
But of course you don’t say what he did was wrong. Why is that? Because he is a Muslim? Because he killed a Jew? Why no condemination?

but maybe you should stop and think that many preg women and small children are being killed in the same manner and in larger numbers in Pal and in Lebanom.
How does this justify what he did? If some men are serial rapists then its OK is someone only rapes one woman? How is not being as evil as someone else justifying evil?

Sometimes it takes action for some to think.
Now is see, you are justifying his actions. It is OK for any Muslim to kill any Jew to show what is happening in the ME. You are a disgrace.

..lets hope that the lives lost in this attack will make the wider community see that innocents being killed for no reason is no joke and this needs to stop whereever!
It will never stop as long as there are people that justify there hate and direct it towards people that have nothing to do with the problem.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
Reply

wilberhum
08-01-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Genius
Actually the guy was a Muslim apostate to christianity. MUST DO RESEARCH BEFORE POSTING PROPAGANDA.
Yet in the midst of his shooting spree in Seattle Friday, he declared himself an angry Muslim.
Whether Christian or Muslim it is a hate crime based on Collective punishment.
Exactly what many on this Forum call for.

[MAD]Stop the Hate[/MAD]!
Reply

SirZubair
08-01-2006, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
I agree with you, but im trying to expain that sometimes what we see can drive us to do insane things, This man was clearly upset with what he saw that he would kill someone else in daylight and ovbs bear the consequences!

:sl:

That is the very reason why i continously say "have patience" and certain people say i am an apoligist for that reason .. :rollseyes

Patience is most needed at the time of the tribulation.

Like allah swt says in the Qur'an... "Allah is with the patient"

SO i will say it again, my dear brothers and sisters in islam, and my non-muslim brothers and sisters, be patient.

And another note to my MUSLIM Bro's and Sis's,..

..we, as muslims are on this earth for many reasons. One of them is to Remove oppression.

We are NOT here to remove OPPRESSORS. We are here to remove OPPRESSION.

:w:
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Kittygyal
08-01-2006, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by SirZubair

:sl:

That is the very reason why i continously say "have patience" and certain people say i am an apoligist for that reason .. :rollseyes

Patience is most needed at the time of the tribulation.

Like allah swt says in the Qur'an... "Allah is with the patient"

SO i will say it again, my dear brothers and sisters in islam, and my non-muslim brothers and sisters, be patient.

And another note to my MUSLIM Bro's and Sis's,..

..we, as muslims are on this earth for many reasons. One of them is to Remove oppression.

We are NOT here to remove OPPRESSORS. We are here to remove OPPRESSION.

:w:
:thumbs_up
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Abdul Fattah
08-01-2006, 06:53 PM
I do not know wheter the origenal post was directed to me or wheter it was for somebody else on this forum. Nonetheless because I have been quite active in some discussions regarding this, and since I caused somewhat of an uproar, I offer you my reply.

If a reporter on the news reports a hat-inducing act, is the reporter guilty of spreading that hate? Well actually, he is indeed, yes.
When Israel is doing stuff like it is doing now, then there's a fine line between condemning that and between spreading hate.

I realise my tongue is sometimes sharp when it comes to this issue. But I don't feel i can be hold responsable for such acts. Even though I greatly condemn the Israelian goverment for what it is doing, I'm not that narow minded and have repeatedly condemned hezbolla's missiles strikes to. In my opinion what I did in the other topic was not spreading hate but fighting propaganda. You may tend to disagree. which I respect. But I just don't feel tha we should go lightly over certain Israeli propagandic claims on an Islamic forum. If we alow the spread of such opinions even here. Then I would see that as equally worse as spreading hate here. Again, I have always offered a diverse opinion where I do not condemn a whole population for the acts of some, and that is why I think my posts are more likely to be considered reporting and condemning, rather then spreading of hate.
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Genius
08-01-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
And the evidence for this is what exactly?
Yet Haq was frustrated at his lack of friends and female companionship.He told friends he felt alienated from his own family, in part because his career had disappointed his father and also because he had disavowed Islam last year, converting to Christianity.

Haq had begun studying the Bible, attending weekly men's spiritual group meetings, only to stop coming a few months after his baptism.

He had told the group's leader that he seen too much anger in Islam and that he wanted to find a new beginning in Christianity.
:D ...............
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HeiGou
08-01-2006, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Genius
:D ...............
And yet that same article said that he had gone to the mosque the Friday before. He seems a little confused about his religious identity.

But we knew that already.
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snakelegs
08-01-2006, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/28/sea...ing/index.html
A U.S. Muslim citizen of Pakistani descent walked into the Jewish Federation in downtown Seattle, Washington building just after 4 p.m. Friday armed with a large caliber semi-automatic handgun and opened fire after asking for the manager, One person was killed and five others were wounded, three critically.

The local news reported that he said it was because of what Israel was doing in Lebanon.

This happened just 3 blocks from where I work. It made me think of the hundreds of hate filled statements I have seen of this forum. I wonder if any of you hate posters have ever thought that your words might inspire someone to kill innocent people.

All of the victims were women, one of them is pregnant. Surly these women had great influence on ME affairs. To level such hate on someone only because they belong to the same religion as a foreign government is a common form of hate crimes.

Next time you make a “Hate Post”, maybe you should think about what you might become responsible for.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
since i saw the "Israel = Hitler and even worse?" i've decided to pretty much stay away from this section because i am letting this stuff make me sick.
BUT this caught my eye and i want to thank you very much for posting this.
thoughts lead to words and words can lead to actions that we maybe never even stopped and thought about. this is the logical conclusion of hate.
thank you again. if only more people thought like you........
i think this is one of the very best posts i've seen here.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-01-2006, 09:34 PM
After killing more children than armed men, the Jews deserves more hate. So far, the Jews killed 1000+ civilians, the majority being children. Sons of David? I think not. The only Jews I trust are the peaceful ones, the True Torah Jews.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-01-2006, 09:55 PM
i agree wilberhum


[MAD]STOP THE HATE![/MAD]


but like i asked before, its really hard when your brothers and sisters are constantly dying. Did you know that we see every islamic individual as a part of a united body and when one part of the body is hurt the whole body aches.... well thats basically what your seeing in this forum. we're lettin out the pain :'(
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snakelegs
08-01-2006, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
After killing more children than armed men, the Jews deserves more hate. So far, the Jews killed 1000+ civilians, the majority being children. Sons of David? I think not. The only Jews I trust are the peaceful ones, the True Torah Jews.
[MOUSE]bigot alert![/MOUSE]

[S]STOP THE HATE[/S]
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snakelegs
08-01-2006, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Lara
This man's crime is in no ways justified whatever his motives were even if he was angry about what's going on here in Lebanon or here in Palestine.What did he get form killing innocent people?
Lara lives in lebanon!
she is living this nightmare that we are all safely sitting around in our comfortable rooms. yapping about.
i'm sure she feels a lot of anger, maybe even rage, at israel for what is happening to her country.
why is it that she hasn't lost her senses??
why doesn't she think it's perfectly excusable and explicable for some guy that walks in a building and shoots some random jews????
how come it is so easy for the rest of you???why don't you take some inspiration from her?
if she isn't an irrational hate filled bigot what is your excuse???
lara and lavikor - you are both in my prayers.
i am critical of u.s.
i am critical of israel.
i am critical of hezbollah.
i am critical of hamas.
there are no "good guys".
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wilberhum
08-01-2006, 10:57 PM
i am critical of u.s.
i am critical of israel.
i am critical of hezbollah.
i am critical of hamas.
there are no "good guys".
I particulary like there are no "good guys". The discussion is really about who is the most or least bad. Because there are no "good guys".
[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
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Woodrow
08-01-2006, 11:09 PM
Blind hate is an outstanding title for this thread. We all need to stop and think just what is meant by blind.

This crime can not be explained in terms of logic. Possibly it made sense to the perpetrator, but I doubt if he even acheived whatever it was he sought for.

A stupid, hatefull action, by a very confused person, blinded by hate.
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Zulkiflim
08-02-2006, 12:10 AM
Salaam,

If that man had been batized then he is no longer a muslim...

An apostate..

Perhaps he was not able to relinquish his links and borhterhood to islam and saw the action of the Isrelais towards his one "brothers" and something snapped.

Inshallah,each of us shall get what we deserve.
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Joe98
08-02-2006, 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
How do you know that its not appropriate to kill some random jew...

Thank you for teaching us about your beliefs.
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wilberhum
08-02-2006, 12:46 AM
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

If that man had been batized then he is no longer a muslim...

An apostate..

Perhaps he was not able to relinquish his links and borhterhood to islam and saw the action of the Isrelais towards his one "brothers" and something snapped.

Inshallah,each of us shall get what we deserve.
It is not important what his religion was or is. It is a crime commited because of Hate. The kind of hate that I see allover this forum.
[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
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Sis786
08-02-2006, 07:54 AM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Sure. And revenge on innocent people with no connection to the events in Lebanon except they happen to be the same religion as most of them. As I said, the problem is hatred. And bigotry. I agree he has not been brought up like me. I was not taught to hate and kill. He clearly was.

But it does not prompt many people to go out and shoot a bunch of women who have no link to the violence on TV at all. Someone taught him that if he saw these sort of things on TV the solution was to kill some Jews.

From "understanding" to "excusing" is a small step and when you say things like "I am not saying what this man did was right, but...." what do you think you are doing?

I agree. Although I notice Ansar does not.

But how can you know? I assume you do not know the man. You are projecting your feelings on to his actions.

Sure. As I said, the problem is that someone taught him the appropriate response to violence in the Middle East is to murder Canadians.
You and me do not know this man and therefore you cannot make that judgement that is was someone who taught him to go out and kill. This was an insane thing he done and its clear that something drove him to this hate. Yet we do not know what that was.

I am not making an excuse for him as i have clearly said that this is not something i praise, in fact it makes me sick. I know i wouldnt want to be a targer just because of what Al Qaeeda and other Muslims do, But what i am trying to say is that Hate has come from somewhere. Before the war in Lebanom i did not HATE israel the way i do now. That doesnt mean im goign to go and shoot and jews randomly i know better than that.

But its clear that this man didnt he knew that he would pay for his actions, he knew this was against Islam so whatever drove him must have been pretty strong...
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Sis786
08-02-2006, 08:04 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Sis786

So why don’t you hate everyone that kills innocents? Why do you stand up for some groups that kill innocents? I can come to only one conclusion; it has nothing to do with killing innocents, that’s just your excuse to justify your hate.
I do trust me if you think that i support groups that kill inncoents then you can think again, I dont support the people that done 9/11 and 7/7 that was disgusting, totally disgusting,, But the issue here is that what Israel done drove this man to carry out this act so i said that i agree with him on that issue that i too hate Israel..doesnt mean im going to take the action he did.


Originally Posted by wilberhum
Sounds like you were just waiting for an excuse. No condemnation for those that attacked Israel but condemnation if Israel responds.
Yeah, i feel for the lives lost in Israel too, But come on 2 Soliders were taken and the proce for that was instead of yeah lets release 2 lebanom prisoners and end this whole thing, NO they decide to proceed with FULL OUT WAR and killed innocents. I dont agree with what Hizbollah done too why wake sleeping dogs!

Originally Posted by wilberhum
But of course you don’t say what he did was wrong. Why is that? Because he is a Muslim? Because he killed a Jew? Why no condemination?
OF COURSE what he did was wrong read my posts above, I aint an animal im a human and i know that killing another innocent is a disgusting act and i dont stand by those that do this. All im trying to say is that the issue is more deeper than a man walking into a place and killing a jew. What needs to be looked at is why he done this. Maybe from this other killings like this can be stopped.

Originally Posted by wilberhum
How does this justify what he did? If some men are serial rapists then its OK is someone only rapes one woman? How is not being as evil as someone else justifying evil?
Its not and you twisting my words!

Originally Posted by wilberhum
Now is see, you are justifying his actions. It is OK for any Muslim to kill any Jew to show what is happening in the ME. You are a disgrace.
NO, where did i say that. Im not justifying his acts only God knows why he did that im asking the question that many are afraid to ask and answer why,. Why did he do this??


Originally Posted by wilberhum
It will never stop as long as there are people that justify there hate and direct it towards people that have nothing to do with the problem.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
I agree with you here. Hate is a force that can lead a perfectly sane person to do something wrong. In order to tackle the problem people need to look into each inccident properly and investigate what led someone to do this. From there they can tackle the issue and stop other from doing the same.

Please read my posts before replying as you have clearly offended me by saying i am a disgrace and stand up for such violence. I dont think you can make that judgement esp when you twist my words to suit you..
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Sis786
08-02-2006, 08:09 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Thank you for teaching us about your beliefs.
Oh shut up from poitning out one line you think you know my beliefs. Dont make me laugh. My beliefs are that NO innocnet should suffer for something that they had nothing to do with. But in reality no one gives a toot.

I dont think what this man did was right! I would never think that :heated: But like i said above the issue is why did he do that?
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wilberhum
08-02-2006, 05:19 PM
Sis786
I liked your response. It truly shows a “Balanced Moderation”. That is a long way from your first post. I conceder this “Mission Accomplished”. I hate blind hate.
I too condemn Israel for the action thy have taken. By the same token, I don’t know what real alternative they have accept 7 million people pack up and scatter around the world and restart there lives from scratch.

Too I don’t to change the direction of this thread. It is about what hate can do to people that are not involved in the ME problem. The hate not only can destroy the lives of innocent people, it destroys the lives of those that hate.

Hate is one of the most destructive emotions that people can have.
So thank you Sis,
Wilber

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
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Rou
08-02-2006, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
If this happend in a Mosque people here would be outraged. But since the people who are victims are Jews, and the shooter was a Muslim of Pakistani descent, I doubt you will get huge outrage here.
Pls dont judge all muslims on the basis of one and then expect muslims not to judge all jews based on the actions of isael for that is being a hypocrit...

i do not blame every jew for the actions of israel...

but you have easily condemned every muslim from the actions of one...

? wheres the logic?

obviously one of us has to think about our morals and understanding of what is truly happening...wake up..
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Joe98
08-03-2006, 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
the issue here is that what Israel done drove this man to carry out this act

No.

The real issue is that the man lives in a community. He must have spoken to the people of his community to get their views on the world.

And then he made the decision to kill.

It doesn’t mean his community in any way approved his actions or knew of them before hand.

But in his heart the man felt that his community would have approved. And so the FBI now monitors mosques


Originally Posted by Rou
but you have easily condemned every muslim from the actions of one...

? wheres the logic?

The ideas stemming from his community partially encouraged him.


Is sis a part of his community?

Originally Posted by Sis786
How do you know that its not appropriate to kill some random jew
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MRR
08-03-2006, 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
This man like many must have been watching the news on TV and this has led him to take this action. im trying to expain that sometimes what we see can drive us to do insane things
This result would only be possible if his mind was already filled with hate to begin with.
What would cause a person to make the connection between a foreign government and his victims a world away?

I find absurd how some posters can claim that there is no justification for Israel attacking (in retaliation), yet can justify and find reason for a man in a completely seperate country to shoot innocent women.


Originally Posted by wilberhum
Sis786

So why don’t you hate everyone that kills innocents? Why do you stand up for some groups that kill innocents? I can come to only one conclusion; it has nothing to do with killing innocents, that’s just your excuse to justify your hate.
Originally Posted by Sis786
I do trust me if you think that i support groups that kill inncoents then you can think again, I dont support the people that done 9/11 and 7/7 that was disgusting, totally disgusting,,..
So you also hate Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and others?
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ABWAN
08-03-2006, 02:04 AM
One thing that was never mentioned in any of the messages in this thread is the fact that this shooter has been suffering from Bi-polar disorder and had been in medication for well around 10 years. In fact even before going on a shooting spree, this guy had allegedly checked himself into some mental clinic and then walked away! This guy had randomly picked this building perhaps knowing that this is the same organization that is funding and supporting Israel in their attacks on innocent civilians in Lebanon. I am not defending him or taking his side, but it has been a common phenomenon for mentally ill people to shoot randomly at people. In a country where young men with criminal background are trained and are allowed to legally go to some other country, rape young girls, abuse them and them kill their whole family, I am not surprised such things happen.

There have been many such incidents in USA from schools to churches. So perhaps there is a less-noticed reason that could take some blame as well. Some people have always had struggle to get into the "american" way of life and become loners. That part never gets in the news. What really gets in the news is what these people do out of frustration. Why not be pro-active than being reactive? Perhaps there are ways to make such people lead normal life.

One other post in this thread talked about how there is less attention given to killing of jews. Well newspapers and all jewish organizations have been issuing statements over and over about increased security.
Even though there is no reason to come against the actions of this guy (as it is TOTALLY against Islam and is committed by an apostate), muslims around the Seattle are having been reaching out to jews hoping things would get better.

This news had gained more attention than anything else (perhaps rightly so). I don't have a problem with it and I totally agree that innocent civilians cant be the target of any such attacks. But what the normal people miss out is things like this: http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.com/ . There was another incident where a muslim woman in Texas was brutally murdered in broad daylight in some shopping complex and that never even made the headlines!


And since people used a "so-called" muslim to convey the message of hate. Let me share what "some" muslims do against hate as well : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...164424,00.html ( I wonder how many american newspapers really bothered to carry such articles!).

Personally I feel there is no way to stop the hate. Things have been going terribly wrong in the past decades and crime would be the order of the day.
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Sis786
08-03-2006, 08:23 AM
Originally Posted by MRR
This result would only be possible if his mind was already filled with hate to begin with.
What would cause a person to make the connection between a foreign government and his victims a world away?
Where does the Hate come from. You dont just wake up one morning and say today im going to hate this person. and this man had a lot of hate for him to go and carry out an act that was gonna go against his religion and law of the country.

Originally Posted by MRR
I find absurd how some posters can claim that there is no justification for Israel attacking (in retaliation), yet can justify and find reason for a man in a completely seperate country to shoot innocent women.
There is a massive difference. This man is crazy its easy to see and no one is justifying him, Israel and her policies are wrong and have been for a number of years. Killings of innocents is wrong to matter where!


Originally Posted by MRR
So you also hate Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and others?
I said i dont support killings if innocents STOP THE HATE!
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Sis786
08-03-2006, 08:29 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
No.

The real issue is that the man lives in a community. He must have spoken to the people of his community to get their views on the world.
WHAT lol i would believe this if the man never had a TV. Come on you dont need to talk to someone to see the injustice in Lebanom put your TV onto Cable 501 and you see the whole thing!

Originally Posted by Joe98
And then he made the decision to kill.
True, he made that decision surely it should be asked why he made this decision?

Originally Posted by Joe98
It doesn’t mean his community in any way approved his actions or knew of them before hand.
True, any sane person would have stopped him!

Originally Posted by Joe98
But in his heart the man felt that his community would have approved. And so the FBI now monitors mosques
LOL I love that conclusion, the man knew that the community would approve of him turning against his religion, or brining more difficulty on a community who already have a bad rep. Yeah right!

and SO NOW THE FB1 MONITORS MOSQUES...;D thats my response!

And like a said some find it approriate to kill some random jew.. Hitler did, Not saying its right but what is wrong to us can be right to a twisted person!
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MRR
08-03-2006, 08:48 AM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Where does the Hate come from. You dont just wake up one morning and say today im going to hate this person. and this man had a lot of hate for him to go and carry out an act that was gonna go against his religion and law of the country.
Good question. From those he associates with. His family, what he was taught growing up.
Your attempts to justify what he has done are no different than when people justify the killing of innocents in war. Innocent people being killed are innocent whether they live in the Lebanon, Israel or the US.

Originally Posted by Sis786
There is a massive difference. This man is crazy its easy to see and no one is justifying him, Israel and her policies are wrong and have been for a number of years. Killings of innocents is wrong to matter where!
We can agree on the killing of innocents being wrong part.
Israels policy is to defend itself. It lives in a neighborhood where all it's neighbors hate it, and try to harm it. If the arab world stops trying to harm Israel, then Israel will stop harming the arab countries.

Originally Posted by Sis786
I said i dont support killings if innocents STOP THE HATE!
You mentioned earlier about hating Israel because you feel they kill innocents. So using this logic I assume that you also hate Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and Hamas, because they also kill innocents.
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scentsofjannah
08-03-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally Posted by MRR
Good question. From those he associates with. His family, what he was taught growing up.
Your attempts to justify what he has done are no different than when people justify the killing of innocents in war. Innocent people being killed are innocent whether they live in the Lebanon, Israel or the US.


We can agree on the killing of innocents being wrong part.
Israels policy is to defend itself. It lives in a neighborhood where all it's neighbors hate it, and try to harm it. If the arab world stops trying to harm Israel, then Israel will stop harming the arab countries.


You mentioned earlier about hating Israel because you feel they kill innocents. So using this logic I assume that you also hate Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and Hamas, because they also kill innocents.
dont put words in her mouth..she never justified it

from my article i posted above this man was clearly unlucky in life..he was a muslim first then he left it for christianity..its wrong what he did and its definitely a crime but if we have to understand crime we have to look at the underlying social causes of crime and also we also should take into account a person's state of mind when carrying out this attack.
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Sis786
08-03-2006, 11:17 AM
Originally Posted by MRR
Good question. From those he associates with. His family, what he was taught growing up.
Your attempts to justify what he has done are no different than when people justify the killing of innocents in war. Innocent people being killed are innocent whether they live in the Lebanon, Israel or the US. .
Yes i agree, and im not justifying him but i like many here dont believe that he did this for a laugh. The sister has mentioned that he was ill and on top of this he devloped a hate a reall deep hate. What im trying to say is that in order to stop these crimes taking place the police and Govt need to look into the mind of the Killer. What made him tick. This will allow them to stop this from happening again..


Originally Posted by MRR
We can agree on the killing of innocents being wrong part.
Israels policy is to defend itself. It lives in a neighborhood where all it's neighbors hate it, and try to harm it. If the arab world stops trying to harm Israel, then Israel will stop harming the arab countries..
Well then we can say that those groups policies are also to defend themselves. Dont make me laugh. Israel are the one bombing Palestine and Lebanom, yet they are the victim. Its about time that you realised that Israel are the ones killings innocents. There have been many people that have stood agianst this war and have admitted that Israel are now taking this too far!


Originally Posted by MRR
You mentioned earlier about hating Israel because you feel they kill innocents. So using this logic I assume that you also hate Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and Hamas, because they also kill innocents.
I dont like the killings of innocents whether the person was a Muslim or Not im sure that answers your question!
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Sis786
08-03-2006, 11:18 AM
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
dont put words in her mouth..she never justified it

from my article i posted above this man was clearly unlucky in life..he was a muslim first then he left it for christianity..its wrong what he did and its definitely a crime but if we have to understand crime we have to look at the underlying social causes of crime and also we also should take into account a person's state of mind when carrying out this attack.
Thank you sis i think many here need reading glasses!:rollseyes
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HeiGou
08-03-2006, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Originally Posted by scentsofjannah
dont put words in her mouth..she never justified it

from my article i posted above this man was clearly unlucky in life..he was a muslim first then he left it for christianity..its wrong what he did and its definitely a crime but if we have to understand crime we have to look at the underlying social causes of crime and also we also should take into account a person's state of mind when carrying out this attack.
Thank you sis i think many here need reading glasses!:rollseyes
Indeed. As some carpenter once said

[34] But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
[35] Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
[36] Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
[37] But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
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Sis786
08-03-2006, 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Indeed. As some carpenter once said

[34] But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
[35] Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
[36] Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
[37] But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Heigou not in an offensive way but you are one weird character!
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MRR
08-03-2006, 04:42 PM
I understand full well what you are saying, it makes perfect sense. There are alot of people around that think this way. You oppose killing when it is people that you favor, and speak loud and clear about your hatred for those doing the killing. Yet when people are being killed that are not in your favored group there is no condemnation. Sure you will say you don't like them being killed when asked, but you are not loudly voicing your opinion like before. You make excuses for those that do the killing, and find understanding. There is no understanding for the others like Israel, only hate. It's laughable, you say you hate groups like the IDF that kill innocents, yet you can't even bring yourself to say you oppose Hamas, Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad who also clearly kill innocent people. Twice you were asked directly, and twice you avoided answering directly.
Yes, It does answer my question, quite clearly. I know exactly what you mean.
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Rou
08-03-2006, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
No.

The real issue is that the man lives in a community. He must have spoken to the people of his community to get their views on the world.

And then he made the decision to kill.

It doesn’t mean his community in any way approved his actions or knew of them before hand.

But in his heart the man felt that his community would have approved. And so the FBI now monitors mosques





The ideas stemming from his community partially encouraged him.


Is sis a part of his community?
LOL thats fresh then we should consider you a rapist murderer and a genocidal maniac...

thats if we are blaming the actions of single men on the communities that is...then america and israel would have majority of the psycos...

thats if you see things your way mate...
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Sis786
08-04-2006, 08:38 AM
Originally Posted by MRR
I understand full well what you are saying, it makes perfect sense. There are alot of people around that think this way. You oppose killing when it is people that you favor, and speak loud and clear about your hatred for those doing the killing. Yet when people are being killed that are not in your favored group there is no condemnation. Sure you will say you don't like them being killed when asked, but you are not loudly voicing your opinion like before. You make excuses for those that do the killing, and find understanding. There is no understanding for the others like Israel, only hate. It's laughable, you say you hate groups like the IDF that kill innocents, yet you can't even bring yourself to say you oppose Hamas, Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad who also clearly kill innocent people. Twice you were asked directly, and twice you avoided answering directly.
Yes, It does answer my question, quite clearly. I know exactly what you mean.
I dont need to say names i dont support those that Kill innocents and Allah SWT knows Best.

I like most want peace in this world and before the war of Lebanom i was in denail about the whole War on Muslims. But what Israel have done in Lebnanom has woke me up and i do hate Israel. DOnt mena i hate Jews or the People of Israel..

You dont know me so please dont judge me!
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AvarAllahNoor
08-04-2006, 09:06 AM
Hope he gets the death penalty! (if it's still in use in Seattle)
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-04-2006, 09:13 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Hope he gets the death penalty! (if it's still in use in Seattle)
Does anyone get the death penalty nowadays :?
Well seeing as his christian its unlikely that they'll even take him to guantanamo bay :rollseyes
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AvarAllahNoor
08-04-2006, 10:12 AM
Originally Posted by Mazed
Does anyone get the death penalty nowadays :?
Well seeing as his christian its unlikely that they'll even take him to guantanamo bay :rollseyes
Yup, California! Last one i know of was early this year i think!
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adi8putra
08-04-2006, 10:34 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
.......All of the victims were women, one of them is pregnant. Surly these women had great influence on ME affairs. To level such hate on someone only because they belong to the same religion as a foreign government is a common form of hate crimes.

Next time you make a “Hate Post”, maybe you should think about what you might become responsible for.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
the price of blind hate?

although i'm agreable 2 what hv been said by wilberhum, i cant help but feeling the rage & hatred brewing up inside myself on the situation in lebanon. it has been confirmed, that from the 900 dead on the lebanese side, 1/3 is just children who r just under 12 years old.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...c=worldupdates

that child could hv been just anybody's child. it could hv been urs & it could hv been mine. that thought alone is enuff 2 fuel the anger within. i'm rage & i'm very much hateful of the following:
1. hezbollah, 4 starting this whole conflict & 4 keep firing rockets towards israel that is hurting the civilians..
2. israel, 4 making collective punishment as a pre-equisite of their rights 4 self defense. for making up d pretext of hezbollah hiding behind civilians as the justification 4 them 2 strike on civilian position!
3. the un, 4 not being able 2 take collective action 2 enforce the immediate & unconditional cease fire 2 end this war and instilled a un peacekeeping force in southern lebanon.
4. the us, 4 down playing & political manouvering on these whole issue.

[S]until these conflicts is ended, i'll always full with hate!:grumbling :offended: :rant: [/S]
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HeiGou
08-04-2006, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Sis786
Heigou not in an offensive way but you are one weird character!
Well that is probably true. After all I hang out on Islamic sites all night and they are frying my brain.

If I said "Some of my best friends are Muslims, but ..... "

What do you think comes next?
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cool_jannah
08-04-2006, 10:29 PM
Heigou im surprised you havent accepted Islam yet...with all this time you spent trying to figure out Islam. Tell me ONE thing that is wrong Islam..gimme your best shot. put the ignorance aside and tell me one thing that is not right about Islam...just one.
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HeiGou
08-05-2006, 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by cool_jannah
Heigou im surprised you havent accepted Islam yet...with all this time you spent trying to figure out Islam. Tell me ONE thing that is wrong Islam..gimme your best shot. put the ignorance aside and tell me one thing that is not right about Islam...just one.
I just don't believe it. I have tried, but I don't. And because I don't Islam looks very very different to me than it does to you. Take a simple case - Gabriel told Muhammed that the Jews were conspiring with the Quraysh before the battle of the Trench. So they all died and the women and children sold. There is no other evidence that the Jews were conspiring except this Divine communication. Which is fine. If you believe.
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scentsofjannah
08-05-2006, 01:27 PM
Heigou and Islam are clear opposites.

if you're familiar with his posts and his positions on many issues even on economy you will see what i mean
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scentsofjannah
08-05-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by ABWAN
One thing that was never mentioned in any of the messages in this thread is the fact that this shooter has been suffering from Bi-polar disorder and had been in medication for well around 10 years. In fact even before going on a shooting spree, this guy had allegedly checked himself into some mental clinic and then walked away! This guy had randomly picked this building perhaps knowing that this is the same organization that is funding and supporting Israel in their attacks on innocent civilians in Lebanon. I am not defending him or taking his side, but it has been a common phenomenon for mentally ill people to shoot randomly at people. In a country where young men with criminal background are trained and are allowed to legally go to some other country, rape young girls, abuse them and them kill their whole family, I am not surprised such things happen.

There have been many such incidents in USA from schools to churches. So perhaps there is a less-noticed reason that could take some blame as well. Some people have always had struggle to get into the "american" way of life and become loners. That part never gets in the news. What really gets in the news is what these people do out of frustration. Why not be pro-active than being reactive? Perhaps there are ways to make such people lead normal life.

One other post in this thread talked about how there is less attention given to killing of jews. Well newspapers and all jewish organizations have been issuing statements over and over about increased security.
Even though there is no reason to come against the actions of this guy (as it is TOTALLY against Islam and is committed by an apostate), muslims around the Seattle are having been reaching out to jews hoping things would get better.

This news had gained more attention than anything else (perhaps rightly so). I don't have a problem with it and I totally agree that innocent civilians cant be the target of any such attacks. But what the normal people miss out is things like this: http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.com/ . There was another incident where a muslim woman in Texas was brutally murdered in broad daylight in some shopping complex and that never even made the headlines!


And since people used a "so-called" muslim to convey the message of hate. Let me share what "some" muslims do against hate as well : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...164424,00.html ( I wonder how many american newspapers really bothered to carry such articles!).

Personally I feel there is no way to stop the hate. Things have been going terribly wrong in the past decades and crime would be the order of the day.

yeah people ignore that..they focus on his previous beliefs before converting to christianity..and then say..right..thats the cause!!..not the mental problems etc

i know some muslims with bipolar disorders..when they are not on medication its quite scary actually(not suprising as such people go through manic episodes)..you feel extremely sorry for them and the stuff they say which makes no sense.

May God protect us from Bipolar disorder and Schizophrenia and all other mental illnesses characterised by illogical patterns of thinking, withdrawal from reality, delusions etc.
Reply

kadafi
08-05-2006, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I just don't believe it. I have tried, but I don't. And because I don't Islam looks very very different to me than it does to you. Take a simple case - Gabriel told Muhammed that the Jews were conspiring with the Quraysh before the battle of the Trench. So they all died and the women and children sold. There is no other evidence that the Jews were conspiring except this Divine communication. Which is fine. If you believe.
This is utterly incorrect. Banu Nadheer were attempting to assassinate the Prophet through treachery. The invited the Prophet to come out with 30 of his men and the Jews would bring 30 of their rabbis to discuss the Message of al-Islaam. The rabbis were concealing daggers in their robes and it is reported that either Jibreel revealed to him of their treachery or a Muslim who concealed his faith and was hiding amongst them revealed it to the brother after his sister told him about the plan. The Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) returned immediately and prepared for military action against them and besieged them until they agreed to leave with all the goods they could carry on their camels.

So in short, they were not killed but banished for breaking the covenant and plotting the assassination of the Prophet.

Historians have categorised all the three causes that point to their expulsion.

  • They attempted to assassinate the Prophet after the battle of Badr but failed.
  • They again attempted to assassinate the Prophet after seeking help for the payment of blood money but failed.
  • They incited the Quraysh to attack the Prophet and simultaneously supplied secret information.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
08-06-2006, 12:36 AM
If HeiGou is referring to Banu Qurayzah and not Banu Nadîr then he is completely wrong about them as well.

When rumours spread that Qurayzah had broken their peace treaty with the Prophet Muhamamd pbuh and had joined the coalition of forces surrounding the Muslim city of Madinah, the Prophet pbuh still did not wish to jump to conclusions. He sent to them four of his companions as a delegation to ascertain their position. Sa'd ibn Mu'âdh [chief of the 'Aws tribe], Sa'd ibn 'Ubâdah [chief of the khazraj tribe], Abdullah ibn Rawâhah and Khawât ibn Jubayr.
The Qurayzah treated the delegation rudely, disavowed all past treaties with the Prophet, and began to exchange insults with Sa'd ibn 'Ubâdah. Sa'd ibn Mu'âdh interrupted saying that the matter was far too serious than to enter into a petty exchange of insults. He pleaded with the Qurayzah but to no avail; they began to abuse him using the most vulgar and obscene language. Sa'd ibn Mu'âdh said, "You would have been well advised to use better language." With that, they left and conveyed their sad report secretly to the Prophet pbuh to avoid causing more fear to spread in amongst the Muslims who already had an army of 10 000 camped on their doorstep and were now open to attack from the Qurayzah behind them. (Ibn Hishâm, Sirah an-Nabawiyyah, vol. 1 pp. 231-233; Ibn Sayyid al-Nâs, 'Uyûn Al-Athar, pp. 90-91)
The Qurayzah actually did send some fighters into the undefended Muslim city in preparation for attack. A Muslim woman, Safiyyah bint Abdul-Muttalib, killed one from behind when she saw him creeping about the quarters of the Muslim women. The others fled thinking that the Muslims had left men to guard the rear as well. (Ibn Sayyid al-Nâs, 'Uyûn Al-Athar, pp. 89).

History aside, it is interesting to note that HeiGou continues to raise his allegations about early Islamic history in the world affairs section in totally unrelated threads where they will not be given full attention. This is unacceptable. Please raise issues in the appropriate section ONLY.

Regards
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Rou
08-06-2006, 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
Well that is probably true. After all I hang out on Islamic sites all night and they are frying my brain.

If I said "Some of my best friends are Muslims, but ..... "

What do you think comes next?
What comes next is that you have confused the word terrorist with islam and now seek to defame islam its prophets and its history beacuse of the actions in kashmir and your hate for terrorists..as i said you have confused muslims and the word terrorist if you truly beleive you are a friend to any muslim then i suggest you look hard in to the so called facts you state at times for it seems you are but trying to insult islam and anyone who follows it rather than giving any facts

:w:
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HeiGou
08-06-2006, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
What comes next is that you have confused the word terrorist with islam and now seek to defame islam its prophets and its history beacuse of the actions in kashmir and your hate for terrorists..as i said you have confused muslims and the word terrorist if you truly beleive you are a friend to any muslim then i suggest you look hard in to the so called facts you state at times for it seems you are but trying to insult islam and anyone who follows it rather than giving any facts
I have not confused Muslims with terrorists. I know very few Muslims are terrorists and I hope very few of them support terrorism. However it remains true that most terrorists in the world today are Muslims.

So I have a simple request. Can you help me out here. How do I tell a proper Muslim from a terrorist who happens to be Muslim? Those 7-7 bombers for instance. Up to the moment that they blew themselves up, in what way did their deviance express itself? Did they dress differently? Did they wear funny beards? Did they eat different foods? Did they go to special mosques? Did they get angry over different sorts of world affairs than, say, you? Did they care about the fate of the Palestinians less than you? There must be some way to tell them apart from real Muslims. Do you know what it is? They must have felt some blind hate, but how is that different from anyone else's blind hate as this thread shows?

As for insulting Islam etc etc, I reject all such claims utterly. You will not find the slightest evidence of it in my posts. It is all in your imagination.
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Rou
08-07-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by HeiGou
I have not confused Muslims with terrorists. I know very few Muslims are terrorists and I hope very few of them support terrorism. However it remains true that most terrorists in the world today are Muslims.

So I have a simple request. Can you help me out here. How do I tell a proper Muslim from a terrorist who happens to be Muslim? Those 7-7 bombers for instance. Up to the moment that they blew themselves up, in what way did their deviance express itself? Did they dress differently? Did they wear funny beards? Did they eat different foods? Did they go to special mosques? Did they get angry over different sorts of world affairs than, say, you? Did they care about the fate of the Palestinians less than you? There must be some way to tell them apart from real Muslims. Do you know what it is? They must have felt some blind hate, but how is that different from anyone else's blind hate as this thread shows?

As for insulting Islam etc etc, I reject all such claims utterly. You will not find the slightest evidence of it in my posts. It is all in your imagination.
i think what the more important question is how do you tell the diffrence between those willing to kill innocents and those who fight to protect there homeland and oppression for there is amassive diffrence...

attack a people and they will fight back there are alot of muslims and alot of attacking going on...

there is a massive diffrence with those who fight against the enemy to defend


and

those who blow up innocents...

there are more defenders and very few innocent murderers in the muslim community my friend that is what you should learn...

i support the causes behind many of the struggles being fought by muslims yet i despies those who kill the innocent....

you must wake up to the fact that there are many muslims fighting out there and suffering but very few who are blowing up innocent civilians...

lets make an example shall we...

hezbollah are firing rockets into israel randomly indeed striking random civilians...and its not the best thing to do...

BUT...

what would you have them do!??? israel bombs lebannon to bits kills ten fold the amount of civilians killed in israel for what two soilders who are captured??

not the first time soilders have been captured on either side...

so why the force this time by israel!?? what they fed up!?? well perhaps they should let the women and children in there prisons go at least to show some respect and then ask for there 2 soilders who are meant to be in battle might i add...

think..ok this aint as simple as you probably wish it could be....

oh hezbollah bomb them randomly i would prefer that over precise bombing of civilian targets...

what is hezbollah hiding in with civilians are they!?? what in christian areas aswell?? dont think so ask so many who were bombed in a prominent christian district of lebanon that had nothing to do with hezbollah...
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nimrod
08-07-2006, 09:34 PM
Rou “I think what the more important question is how do you tell the difference between those willing to kill innocents and those who fight to protect their homeland and oppression for there is a massive difference...”.

Rou I believe if you will re-read Hei Gou’s post, you will come to understand that the question he asked, is exactly the question you asked.

How do you tell a 7-7 bomber from someone fighting for the freedom of a Muslim homeland? Did not the 7-7 bombers kill innocents? Were those Hope-to-be Bombers in Canada, not, allegedly hoping to kill and maim innocents?

How do you tell them apart? Count on the Muslim communities to tell you who is who?
Have we seen much of that?

Thanks
Nimrod
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Wild Bill
08-07-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by nimrod
How do you tell them apart? Count on the Muslim communities to tell you who is who?
Have we seen much of that?

Thanks
Nimrod
We have seen far too little of that. Then when authorities try to find out on their own many in the muslim community cry 'harassment'. Well then help out a little. Unless of course you do have something to hide.
Why would a western government be willing to permit it's people to be at risk of attack just because a small percentage of the people don't want to cooperate?
It is better that a few feel harassed than all be at risk.
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nimrod
08-07-2006, 10:33 PM
Wild Bill, one likely fall-out of the events, over the last half dozen years, is that many countries will likely limit any immigration from certain segments.

I doubt it will be done openly, but I highly suspect it will be done none the less.

Whether or not that is a good thing, I guess, depends on your opinion, as to whether or not Western immigration by Muslims, is a good thing for Muslims.

Thanks
Nimrod
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Rou
08-08-2006, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by nimrod
Rou “I think what the more important question is how do you tell the difference between those willing to kill innocents and those who fight to protect their homeland and oppression for there is a massive difference...”.

Rou I believe if you will re-read Hei Gou’s post, you will come to understand that the question he asked, is exactly the question you asked.

How do you tell a 7-7 bomber from someone fighting for the freedom of a Muslim homeland? Did not the 7-7 bombers kill innocents? Were those Hope-to-be Bombers in Canada, not, allegedly hoping to kill and maim innocents?

How do you tell them apart? Count on the Muslim communities to tell you who is who?
Have we seen much of that?

Thanks
Nimrod
count the amount of innocent muslims who have suffered and are suffering and divide them by the amount that have killed innocents and times that by the amount of countries USA and UK have turned upside down...

you will have the amount of terrorists that will be created....

look there is no way of telling who is a bad muslim and who is not just as there is no way of telling who is a bad american and not!

the majority of muslimsare angry at the unfair treatment that is being put on them by western powers but the terrorists who are killing innocents are a small group compared to those fighting for there own freedom...

but looking at the recent events such as afgan , iraq and lebannon seems the west wants more terrorists what else do you think will happen by the use of such force on innocent people?? what will they all praise the west?? of course not every brother and farther of a dead relative will rise in anger..
thats natural seeing as the the west seems to support israel in its killing!?

100 dead in israel and a 1000 in lebannon

10 times the amount...slightly an unfair treatment im tierd of explaining this seems people will turna blind eye when it does not suit them...whatever...

anger innocents and they will want revenge if at that point you wish to call them terrorists thats up to you...
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Rou
08-08-2006, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Wild Bill
We have seen far too little of that. Then when authorities try to find out on their own many in the muslim community cry 'harassment'. Well then help out a little. Unless of course you do have something to hide.
Why would a western government be willing to permit it's people to be at risk of attack just because a small percentage of the people don't want to cooperate?
It is better that a few feel harassed than all be at risk.
hmm indeed perhaps you should take that same view in palastine and let the jews be pushed out of palastine?

or is this aview that only counts against muslims??
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adi8putra
08-08-2006, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Wild Bill
We have seen far too little of that. Then when authorities try to find out on their own many in the muslim community cry 'harassment'. Well then help out a little. Unless of course you do have something to hide.
Why would a western government be willing to permit it's people to be at risk of attack just because a small percentage of the people don't want to cooperate?
It is better that a few feel harassed than all be at risk.
off course it is called harassment when it is done in a very brute manners. since when does someone is guilty based solely on suspicion alone? for god's sake, everybody is innocent until proven guilty. take the instance of the two muslim brothers in england who was literally ambushed and even shot in their own house based on information that thay are terrorists? the police eventually admitted that this brothers are eventually innocent and their intelligence has flawed. if this things happened to yourself, will you not get upset or angry? In this case, their only fault is being muslims and they chose to be identified with as muslim. in the other case, De Menezes (the brazilian) was shot dead just because of his resemblance of a muslim. Both of them are mistaken of being terrorists just bacause they are muslim!

all of us talks of the price of blind hate? Did i not see the same pattern happening here?
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wilberhum
08-08-2006, 06:25 PM
De Menezes (the brazilian) was shot dead just because of his resemblance of a muslim
No, he was shot because in a critical situation he was told to stop. He was shot because he was trying to evade the police because he was in the country illegally.
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adi8putra
08-08-2006, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
No, he was shot because in a critical situation he was told to stop. He was shot because he was trying to evade the police because he was in the country illegally.
is that justify shooting him in the head.... i lost counts on how many shots went through his head?
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wilberhum
08-08-2006, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by adi8putra
is that justify shooting him in the head.... i lost counts on how many shots went through his head?
I don't defend what was done. I just addressed a false statment.
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Woodrow
08-08-2006, 07:12 PM
I think if we look through threads, we will discover that each and every one of us is capable of blind hate under various circumstances. One thing about blind hate is we never see it within our selves. It is always visible in the other person.

Blind Hate = other persons reaction

Justified Anger = our reaction
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adi8putra
08-08-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I don't defend what was done. I just addressed a false statment.
points taken, but, i did read it before (sorry, i cant remember where...) of the police shooting him because they mistook him for a muslim bomber...?:rollseyes
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Wild Bill
08-08-2006, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
100 dead in israel and a 1000 in lebannon

10 times the amount...slightly an unfair treatment im tierd of explaining this seems people will turna blind eye when it does not suit them...whatever...
10 times the amount in this situation merely means that the Israeli military is better equiped and trained than hezbollah, nothing more. War is unfair to innocent people, period. If hezbollah was better equiped than the Israelis, then the numbers would be opposite. Some people will turn a blind eye to the obvious things.


Originally Posted by Rou
anger innocents and they will want revenge if at that point you wish to call them terrorists thats up to you...
If the 'revenge' is not for themselves, and/or is committed against innocent people, then they change from being an angered innocent, to an angered terrorist. Not by anyones opinion, but by definition.
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Wild Bill
08-08-2006, 11:39 PM
Originally Posted by Rou
hmm indeed perhaps you should take that same view in palastine and let the jews be pushed out of palastine?

or is this aview that only counts against muslims??
I would like to respond but this statement makes no sense.:? There is no connection or parallel between my statement and palestine.:?

The only part that can be responded to is this,
or is this aview that only counts against muslims??
Don't pretend to know anything about me or my views on muslims, jews or any other people. You know nothing. And assume far too much.
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Wild Bill
08-09-2006, 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by adi8putra
off course it is called harassment when it is done in a very brute manners. since when does someone is guilty based solely on suspicion alone?
I would agree, brutalizing someone definately falls under definition harassment. This is not what I was talking about though. I was talking about police conducting investigations and questioning people, and people not cooperating. This is something very different. I have been held for questioning, I understand they have a job to do, and I cooperated. It is inconvenient, but that's the price of living in a modern society.
Deal with it. Or move somewhere where the police don't conduct investigations because they don't care about the population.

Originally Posted by adi8putra
take the instance of the two muslim brothers in england who was literally ambushed and even shot in their own house based on information that thay are terrorists? the police eventually admitted that this brothers are eventually innocent and their intelligence has flawed. if this things happened to yourself, will you not get upset or angry?
Of course I would. Law-suit anyone?

Originally Posted by adi8putra
De Menezes (the brazilian) was shot dead just because of his resemblance of a muslim. Both of them are mistaken of being terrorists just bacause they are muslim!
De Menezes was not shot for resembling an arab. He ran when ordered to stop. Not just at anytime, but when there was extreme high alert for terrorism, and everybody knew this. A tragedy yes, but under the circumstances one can see how it happened. Suspicious looking guy (heavy coat) runs when ordered to stop.
No doubt if the police also felt he might be a muslim, that would also add to the overall suspicion they had. Let's not be dishonest here, a major attack happened around that time. The suspected attackers that claimed responsibility were a group called 'The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe'. Who should the police look for? Hindus? Hare Krishnas?
Anyway, I don't know why he ran. But if he had not ran he would still be alive.

I still feel the same way, I think it is better that a few feel harassed in order to keep everybody safe.

If the people that feel harassed don't like that feeling then they should cooperate. Things go smoother when you cooperate.
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Rou
08-09-2006, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Wild Bill
I would like to respond but this statement makes no sense.:? There is no connection or parallel between my statement and palestine.:?

The only part that can be responded to is this, Don't pretend to know anything about me or my views on muslims, jews or any other people. You know nothing. And assume far too much.
im not pretending heance why it was in question form my friend, as for palastine its a parrlell to what you were stating...

lets put it this way its quite clear not all muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are muslim... overall not every muslim fighting in the world today belongs under the term terrorist however many in the world decide to term them that way that is unfaior and ignorant and if the actions of these people are known as terrorisem then the two biggest terrorists in the world are israel and USA that is quite clear..and lets not assume that hezbollah would do the same as israel if they had the weapons as the response to hezbollah doing this would be quite diffrent to israel to doing this...

they would say these terrorists are unleashing a massacre and all the countries in the west would rise up and ask for the UN to attack hezbollah...however israel does the same and all that is said is we need a ceasefire and oh its in defence...

hypocrisy...
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Wild Bill
08-10-2006, 05:33 AM
Originally Posted by Rou
overall not every muslim fighting in the world today belongs under the term terrorist however many in the world decide to term them that way that is unfaior and ignorant and if the actions of these people are known as terrorisem then the two biggest terrorists in the world are israel and USA that is quite clear..and lets not assume that hezbollah would do the same as israel if they had the weapons as the response to hezbollah doing this would be quite diffrent to israel to doing this...
The problem with your posts is that your comparisons are of completely vague things to very precise things. There is no way to comment on what you have said because a person can't be sure of what you have said. Who are "them" and "these people" precisely? Clearly many muslims fighting in the world are terrorists while many are not. Your comments point at "some muslims somewhere", well, which ones? I can't agree or disagree without knowing who it is we are talking about.

Hezbollah would not give a crap about what the response would be. If they had the weapons they would rain terror upon the people of Israel. They are committed to the destruction of Israel.

I hate to to get picky about a small detail, but your statement made no parallel or sensible connection to my earlier post whatsoever. I spoke about people not cooperating with authorities in investigations into terrorism. I also mentioned it is better that a few are unhappy in order to ensure the safety everybody. you then responded with,
hmm indeed perhaps you should take that same view in palastine and let the jews be pushed out of palastine?
There is no connection or parallel that I can see. It is completely off topic and unrelated in any way to anything that was said. I honestly can't make any sense of how it relates at all. It is like you were commenting on another topic all together.
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Rou
08-10-2006, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Wild Bill
The problem with your posts is that your comparisons are of completely vague things to very precise things. There is no way to comment on what you have said because a person can't be sure of what you have said. Who are "them" and "these people" precisely? Clearly many muslims fighting in the world are terrorists while many are not. Your comments point at "some muslims somewhere", well, which ones? I can't agree or disagree without knowing who it is we are talking about.

Hezbollah would not give a crap about what the response would be. If they had the weapons they would rain terror upon the people of Israel. They are committed to the destruction of Israel.

I hate to to get picky about a small detail, but your statement made no parallel or sensible connection to my earlier post whatsoever. I spoke about people not cooperating with authorities in investigations into terrorism. I also mentioned it is better that a few are unhappy in order to ensure the safety everybody. you then responded with, There is no connection or parallel that I can see. It is completely off topic and unrelated in any way to anything that was said. I honestly can't make any sense of how it relates at all. It is like you were commenting on another topic all together.
Not only is all this hypocritic many people who say such things and back up the situation of israel and the western powers so blindly ignore there own vaugness???

the whole point here was that not every muslim is a terrorist nor is every fighting muslim a suicde bomber!??

its ok for yourselves to be hypocritical but no on else is allowed???

i hear so many crying such things as oh syria and iran they back hezbollah!!

they are causing the problem???

what **** problem??? is lebbanon taking over israel???

are lebonese in israel???? apart from those innocents in prisons!

and what of the USA??? they fly planes in with missiles that kill many innocents in lebbanon in front of the whole worlds eyes they even go as far as refueling in britan??

such hypocrisy leaves any innocent or anyone who has lost an innocent little choice!???

what are they supposed to do lie down and die!?? let people bomb there country to the point where ten times as many people have died and 100 times have been displaced!???

keep your hypocritical views my friend i for one am fed up with the hypocrits in the west what a joke!??

i talk to my sisters and brothers that are you all blind???

in front of you all they are tearing us down and you sit there talking of daily chores and televison shows????

our people are being eliminated! dont wait for westerners to tell you that for by that time you will have no people!!!

and no suicide bombing is not the way!! a shameful act that kills no one but innocents! just beacuse they kill innocents you should not fall to the same level!! allah see's all....
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Wild Bill
08-11-2006, 05:10 AM
Maybe you have a hard time understanding. Don't ***ume you know anything about me or what I think, and you need to watch your mouth.
Originally Posted by Rou
Not only is all this hypocritic
All what?! You have something wrong with you? Are you hearing voices? What are you even talking about?
Originally Posted by Rou
people who say such things and back up the situation of israel and the western powers so blindly ignore there own vaugness???
Like I said before, don't ***ume anything about me, and watch your mouth with the comments on what I back up. You don't know what I back up, shut your hole and think before spewing your ignorant insults. And what the hell are you talking about anyway? Do you even know what -----vague------ means? I am being very specific about what I am saying -the exact opposite of vague- you only say things for effect don't you? There is no substance to your comments. Start by looking up the meaning of words before using them.
Originally Posted by Rou
the whole point here was that not every muslim is a terrorist nor is every fighting muslim a suicde bomber!??
Wonderful. This is the point? Now tell me how this relates even remotely to my post about police investigations and your out of nowhere comment on it about Jews and palestine? Now we have moved to terrorists and suicide bombers? This absurd. You must be deranged or something. Each comment gets further from the topic at hand. Your comment are completely unrelated to anything that was being said in the first place.
Originally Posted by Rou
its ok for yourselves to be hypocritical but no on else is allowed???
.
Watch yourself boy. I have said nothing to be hypocritical, you know nothing about my views. You ***ume too much and know even less.
Originally Posted by Rou
i hear so many crying such things as oh syria and iran they back hezbollah!!

they are causing the problem???

what **** problem??? is lebbanon taking over israel???

are lebonese in israel???? apart from those innocents in prisons!

and what of the USA??? they fly planes in with missiles that kill many innocents in lebbanon in front of the whole worlds eyes they even go as far as refueling in britan??
What the hell does syria, iran, lebanon, Israel, the USA, or any of this got to do with anything that I have said? Are you on medication? Have you forgotten to take it? You are all over the place, yapping about things that I have never said.
Originally Posted by Rou
keep your hypocritical views my friend i for one am fed up with the hypocrits in the west what a joke!??
The best thing for you to do is just keep your mouth shut. You have a big mouth and flap your lips far too much. I have no idea what you are talking about, and I really don't care. But the next time you want to call me a hypocrite, don't. Just shut your hole. You know nothing of my views to call me a hypocrite.
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snakelegs
08-11-2006, 06:02 AM
how sad. there's even hate on "the price of blind hate" thread. i realize most of us are emotional about what is going on in the mideast, but lately this section is so full of hate, anger, sarcasm and polarization between muslims and non-muslims that i hardly come here any more.
if we can't even discuss with each other without hate, i wonder if there is any hope that we will ever have peace in the world. it begins with each one of us....and it doesn't look too good.
p.s. just so i don't get misunderstood i mean both muslims and non-muslims.
sad.
i wonder if we will ever be able to honour our common humanity, beyond all the labels. no one is perfect, but that would be a worthwhile thing to strive for.
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Looking4Peace
08-11-2006, 06:05 AM
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG, for the title of this thread there sure is alot of hate being spread from member to member [BANANA] stop the hate and eat a banana[/BANANA]
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Inshallah
08-11-2006, 07:23 AM
Whats the point of this stupid thread????? We all know that hate crime exists, so what???? There can be nothing done about it, it's going to be a battle till the end and islam will prevail as allah wishes.
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Woodrow
08-11-2006, 07:37 AM
this thread has fallen apart and is only inciting personal arguements now. Therefore:

:threadclo
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