Why are Islams freedom fighters firing at there brothers and sisters!?!

[abdmez]

They are killing Arabs in Israel, they are even aiming at Arab towns!

Is this how they treat there brothers and sisters in Israel?????

I guess so...

Hezbollah must stop firing at Arab and Jewish civilian targets to be recongnized as anything but a bunch of thugs who wish to see children die! What have the Arabs in Israel ever done to you Hezbollah!?!

Hezbollah = Cowards.

[guyabano]

totally agree !

[lavikor201]

Great post! It shows both side of the conflict.

[Fishman]

They are killing Arabs in Israel, they are even aiming at Arab towns!

Is this how they treat there brothers and sisters in Israel?????

I guess so...

Hezbollah must stop firing at Arab and Jewish civilian targets to be recongnized as anything but a bunch of thugs who wish to see children die! What have the Arabs in Israel ever done to you Hezbollah!?!

Hezbollah = Cowards.

:sl:
We are in the end times. All of the Mujahideen are corrupt, along with the important leaders, some of the people, and the world's morals.
:w:

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[Ansar Al-'Adl]

They are killing Arabs in Israel, they are even aiming at Arab towns!

Are they even aiming at anything? Those are crude rockets, not precision guided missiles.

But of course civilian deaths on all sides are to be condemned.

[HeiGou]

Are they even aiming at anything? Those are crude rockets, not precision guided missiles.

But of course civilian deaths on all sides are to be condemned.

Especially those that are intended and desired. As opposed to those that are unintentional.

If they are not aiming at anything, should they be firing them at all?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

ive never seen hezbullah, has anyone ever seen them?

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Especially those that are intended and desired. As opposed to those that are unintentional.

If they are not aiming at anything, should they be firing them at all?

Well it does some interesting that the proportion of combatants to civilians that they have killed with their crude weaponry is actually significantly greater than Israel, despite the latter's precision guided missiles. Will they continue firing? They don't seem to have any other useful method of fighting.

[adi8putra]

Morality is not on our side

By Ze'ev Maoz

There's practically a holy consensus right now that the war in the North is a just war and that morality is on our side. The bitter truth must be said: this holy consensus is based on short-range selective memory, an introverted worldview, and double standards.

This war is not a just war. Israel is using excessive force without distinguishing between civilian population and enemy, whose sole purpose is extortion. That is not to say that morality and justice are on Hezbollah's side. Most certainly not. But the fact that Hezbollah "started it" when it kidnapped soldiers from across an international border does not even begin to tilt the scales of justice toward our side.

Let's start with a few facts. We invaded a sovereign state, and occupied its capital in 1982. In the process of this occupation, we dropped several tons of bombs from the air, ground and sea, while wounding and killing thousands of civilians. Approximately 14,000 civilians were killed between June and September of 1982, according to a conservative estimate. The majority of these civilians had nothing to do with the PLO, which provided the official pretext for the war.

In Operations Accountability and Grapes of Wrath, we caused the mass flight of about 500,000 refugees from southern Lebanon on each occasion. There are no exact data on the number of casualties in these operations, but one can recall that in Operation Grapes of Wrath, we bombed a shelter in the village of Kafr Kana which killed 103 civilians. The bombing may have been accidental, but that did not make the operation any more moral.

On July 28, 1989, we kidnapped Sheikh Obeid, and on May 12, 1994, we kidnapped Mustafa Dirani, who had captured Ron Arad. Israel held these two people and another 20-odd Lebanese detainees without trial, as "negotiating chips." That which is permissible to us is, of course, forbidden to Hezbollah.

Hezbollah crossed a border that is recognized by the international community. That is true. What we are forgetting is that ever since our withdrawal from Lebanon, the Israel Air Force has conducted photo-surveillance sorties on a daily basis in Lebanese airspace. While these flights caused no casualties, border violations are border violations. Here too, morality is not on our side.

So much for the history of morality. Now, let's consider current affairs. What exactly is the difference between launching Katyushas into civilian population centers in Israel and the Israel Air Force bombing population centers in south Beirut, Tyre, Sidon and Tripoli? The IDF has fired thousands of shells into south Lebanon villages, alleging that Hezbollah men are concealed among the civilian population. Approximately 25 Israeli civilians have been killed as a result of Katyusha missiles to date. The number of dead in Lebanon, the vast majority comprised of civilians who have nothing to do with Hezbollah, is more than 300.

Worse yet, bombing infrastructure targets such as power stations, bridges and other civil facilities turns the entire Lebanese civilian population into a victim and hostage, even if we are not physically harming civilians. The use of bombings to achieve a diplomatic goal - namely, coercing the Lebanese government into implementing UN Security Council Resolution 1559 - is an attempt at political blackmail, and no less than the kidnapping of IDF soldiers by Hezbollah is the aim of bringing about a prisoner exchange.

There is a propaganda aspect to this war, and it involves a competition as to who is more miserable. Each side tries to persuade the world that it is more miserable. As in every propaganda campaign, the use of information is selective, distorted and self-righteous. If we want to base our information (or shall we call it propaganda?) policy on the assumption that the international environment is going to buy the dubious merchandise that we are selling, be it out of ignorance or hypocrisy, then fine. But in terms of our own national soul searching, we owe ourselves to confront the bitter truth - maybe we will win this conflict on the military field, maybe we will make some diplomatic gains, but on the moral plane, we have no advantage, and we have no special status.

The writer is a professor of political science at Tel Aviv university.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/742257.html

[Sis786]

If they are not aiming at anything, should they be firing them at all?

Now thats a comment that should be sent on a postcard to Israel!

[HeiGou]

Well it does some interesting that the proportion of combatants to civilians that they have killed with their crude weaponry is actually significantly greater than Israel, despite the latter's precision guided missiles. Will they continue firing? They don't seem to have any other useful method of fighting.

It does but you have to ask what is the proportion of civilians killed to the amount of explosives dropped. Of course there is a problem here: 1. the Israeli Army does not hide and it fights in the open and 2. how do you know who is a civilian or not in Lebanon? Hezbollah dresses like civilians and hides among them. If a Hezbollah man dies in civilian clothes who is to say whether he was a fighter or not?

The question remains: is there a moral justification for firing missiles that can only kill civilians? Hezbollah thinks so. May I ask if you think this is Islamic?

[lavikor201]

By: Joseph Farah Arab-American from Lebonon

hope Pat Buchanan and Kofi Annan are feeling good about themselves today.

They agree with each other on what needs to be done to resolve the Middle East conflict.

What do these two men have in common that brings them together in this unusual way?

For whatever reasons, they fail to grasp the root cause of the Arab-Israeli struggle – that Hezbollah, Hamas and much of the Arab and Muslim world want more than anything else in the world to destroy the Jewish state.

It's that simple. Just as there can be no compromise between the United States and Osama bin Laden because al-Qaida seeks the destruction of America, there can be no diplomatic resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict as long as the goal of one side remains the annihilation of the other.

But Buchanan and Annan, two guys who seldom agree, don't get it.

Buchanan calls Israel's measured, restrained act of self-defense a "rampage against a defenseless Lebanon." He claims Israel's action in Lebanon was a "pre-planned attack to make the Lebanese people suffer."

He asks: "Where are the Christians? Why is Pope Benedict virtually alone among Christian leaders to have spoken out against what is being done to Lebanese Christians and Muslims?"

Let me answer that question – as a Christian of both Lebanese and Syrian heritage: We are with Israel! We are in favor of destroying Hezbollah once and for all. If anything, we are wondering what took so long. We are hoping and praying that Israel does not abort this campaign against the evil terrorists allied with al-Qaida and sponsored by the mullahs of Iran.

We are sick and tired of seeing groups like Hezbollah hide behind the skirts of innocent Christians, occupying their towns and daring Israel to come after them. We are sick and tired of the wholesale persecution of Christian believers in Lebanon – a jihadist religious cleansing that has sent millions of Lebanese Christians into a worldwide diaspora.

Is Pat Buchanan kidding? Where are the Christians? Where has Pat Buchanan been as Christians have been slaughtered by the likes of Hezbollah and treated like dhimmi by his friends in Hamas and the Palestinian Authority?

And where has Buchanan's new buddy Kofi Annan been for the last 20 years? He, too, has been blaming Israel first for having the audacity to exercise self-preservation and self-defense against ruthless enemies sworn to one goal – the Jewish state's destruction.

Both Annan and Buchanan offer up a passing condemnation of Hezbollah's "provocative attack."

But from there they launch into their predictable tirades against Israel for doing what every nation-state has the right to do – defend itself from attack.

Annan threatens to pull out his United Nations peacekeeping forces in southern Lebanon if Israel does not declare a unilateral and immediate cease-fire.

Can I ask an obvious question? What good have the U.N. peacekeepers done? Have they kept the peace? Have they prevented Hezbollah terrorists from raining thousands of rockets down on the civilian population of northern Israel? Have they prevented the transport of arms to the Lebanese-Israeli border?

If anything, the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel is proof-positive that the U.N. is completely ineffective, complete irrelevant – and so are the diplomatic "solutions" endlessly offered up by its busybody leaders.

Annan says Israel's response is "disproportionate."

I assume, by that, he means Israel should only give back what it has received. In other words, Israel should not utilize its strength – its modern military machine. Presumably it should use only the weapons employed against it – like katyusha and Qassam rockets.

It's insanity. By the same logic, should the U.S. use only box-cutters against al-Qaida?

The object of any military campaign should be to destroy the enemy, to prevail over them, to win victory.

That's the strategy I'm hoping Israel adopts in this war with Hezbollah and Hamas.

-Worldnetdaily

[Fishman]

:sl:
OFF TOPIC: Lavikor, since you are from Haifa, I was wondering whether you experienced the rocket attacks?
:w:

[lavikor201]

I live in the southern part of the city, so right now even though we are on alert, we are not as threatened as the people who live in northern haifa.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

It does but you have to ask what is the proportion of civilians killed to the amount of explosives dropped.

On which side? The Hezbollah rockets or the Israeli bombs? And why does it matter?

Of course there is a problem here: 1. the Israeli Army does not hide and it fights in the open

What are you referring to as a 'problem' ? Yes the Israeli army is in the open. Your point?

2. how do you know who is a civilian or not in Lebanon?

The vast majority of those killed were women and children (just look at Qana). I think it is safe to say that they are civilians. The number of Hezbollah fighters dead has only been 43.

Hezbollah dresses like civilians and hides among them.

Guerrila warfare is preferable to them over being massacred.

The question remains: is there a moral justification for firing missiles that can only kill civilians?

I am interested in your wording. It is a question of probability not possibility. The rockets 'can' kill soldiers just as they 'can' kill civilians. Hezbollah's rockets that landed in an open field were apparently intended to hit a military base. 51 Israelis have died, 18 of them civilians. 750 lebanese have died, the vast majority of them civilians (according to all major news groups). You decide which is more morally defensible.

May I ask if you think this is Islamic?

It is not Islamic to kill civilians whether they are Jewish or Muslim.

Regards

[lavikor201]

The vast majority of those killed were women and children (just look at Qana). I think it is safe to say that they are civilians. The number of Hezbollah fighters dead has only been 43.

Do you honestly believe that number. Many Hezbollah are civilians... and are not very innocent.

It is not Islamic to kill civilians whether they are Jewish or Muslim.

Than Hezbollah is not very 'islamic' firing thousands of rockets into civilian areas of Haifa and Northern Israel.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Do you honestly believe that number. Many Hezbollah are civilians... and are not very innocent.

I accept that the number could be slightly higher but I find any number above 100 to be nonsensical. Hezbollah would have to make up at least 10% of the entire Lebanese population before such a proportion becomes convincing.

Than Hezbollah is not very 'islamic' firing thousands of rockets into civilian areas of Haifa and Northern Israel.

True. Their actions are not very Islamic. But what are their other options for fighting back? Israelis ask the question in defense of their tactics.

[Hijrah]

:sl:
We are in the end times. All of the Mujahideen are corrupt, along with the important leaders, some of the people, and the world's morals.
:w:

yes the "mujahideen"

[lavikor201]

True. Their actions are not very Islamic. But what are their other options for fighting back? Israelis ask the question in defense of their tactics.

Why don't they fire rockets at people in Lebonon like soldiers. Ones attacking them. They are firing 99% of there rockets in Israeli territory at innocent civilians. Some even Muslims!

But then again, they knew what would happen when they started this whole conflict. Did they think Israel was just going to sit there and take it?

[Fishman]

yes the "mujahideen"

:sl:
Sorry for the spelling mistake, it's not my fault that I don't know much Arabic.
:w:

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Why don't they fire rockets at people in Lebonon like soldiers. Ones attacking them.

It seems that they do as news groups speak about "fierce fighting in lebanon". That is how most of the Israeli soldiers died, isn't it?

They are firing 99% of there rockets in Israeli territory at innocent civilians. Some even Muslims!

True, but they have killed more soldiers than civilians. The same cannot be said for Israel.

But then again, they knew what would happen when they started this whole conflict.

They didn't start the 'whole' conflict, just the conflict in Lebanon. They attacked Israel in response to the devastation already going on in Gaza.

[lavikor201]

They didn't start the 'whole' conflict, just the conflict in Lebanon. They attacked Israel in response to the devastation already going on in Gaza.

There we go, we find the true group who started it. Who started the conflict in Gaza? Palestinians kidnaped a soldier. No soldier kidnaped then there is no Gaza Conflict... despite the fact that 100's of rockets were aimed at Sderot, Israel daily and the Israeli military had no response.

Hamas thought they could push it further by going into Israel land pre-1967 and raiding an outpost. They are the ones who started this.

It seems that they do as news groups speak about "fierce fighting in lebanon". That is how most of the Israeli soldiers died, isn't it?

Thats because Israel must send soldiers into find Hezbollah instead of just wiping a town off the map because civilians are still inside the towns. Hezbollah puts a lot of resources into firing rockets at Israeli civilian centers everyday. Then after a long day of firing at innocent civilians, they try and hide behind/blend in with the civilian population when Israel comes to retaliate.

True, but they have killed more soldiers than civilians. The same cannot be said for Israel.

Israeli soldiers don't hide in civilian areas like Hezbollah.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

There we go, we find the true group who started it. Who started the conflict in Gaza? Palestinians kidnaped a soldier. No soldier kidnaped then there is no Gaza Conflict... despite the fact that 100's of rockets were aimed at Sderot, Israel daily and the Israeli military had no response.

Hamas thought they could push it further by going into Israel land pre-1967 and raiding an outpost. They are the ones who started this.

True. But we never did find out how that beach picnic blew up in palestine before, though.

Thats because Israel must send soldiers into find Hezbollah instead of just wiping a town off the map because civilians are still inside the towns. Hezbollah puts a lot of resources into firing rockets at Israeli civilian centers everyday. Then after a long day of firing at innocent civilians, they try and hide behind/blend in with the civilian population when Israel comes to retaliate.

And where does the 'fierce fighting' come in? By that I understood that the Israeli army exchanged fire with the Hezbollah fighters.

Israeli soldiers don't hide in civilian areas like Hezbollah.

Doesn't negate the fact that Israel has killed more civilians than soldiers while Hezbollah has killed more soldiers than civilians. Hiding may be cowardly, but killing civilians is the true crime.

Regards

[lavikor201]

And where does the 'fierce fighting' come in? By that I understood that the Israeli army exchanged fire with the Hezbollah fighters.

Oh yes in urban areas fire is exchanged, but the rockets are always fired at civilians.

True. But we never did find out how that beach picnic blew up in palestine before, though.

Over 80 rockets were launched into Sderot, Israel from the Gaza strip before the beach incident.

but killing civilians is the true crime.

Hezbollah hides in civilian areas with the main purpose of trying to create international condemnation whenever Israel fights back. Hezbollah realizes that civilians die because they operate near schools and civilian areas.

[SirZubair]

Hezbollah is not doing anything fisabilillah, what they are doing, they are doing for revenge.

So please, stop refering to them as 'mujahids'.

[Fishman]

Hezbollah is not doing anything fisabilillah, what they are doing, they are doing for revenge.

So please, stop refering to them as 'mujahids'.

:sl:
I'm not. The best I would call them is 'corrupt mujahids'.
:w:

[Kittygyal]

Hezbollah is not doing anything fisabilillah, what they are doing, they are doing for revenge.

So please, stop refering to them as 'mujahids'.

now what does "Mujahids" mean or what are they??

[IbnAbdulHakim]

now what does "Mujahids" mean or what are they??

mujahid are those who fight jihaad (war) for Allah .

^ That is the meaning the word jihaad got when islam came into power.
Before islam the word jihaad meant "to struggle"


:salamext:

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

As always we have the kafirs complainign of the action of muslim as unIslmaic and so on.

and i agree.But the question to lavikor and other.

Is it in your reliogn to target civillians?
Mass murder?

Using precision weappns to target houses of civillians?

Send pamphelte to ask people to leave then destroy the road and bridges?

Hyprocrisy.

as always,they fell the bite but do not reflect on what they do to tohers.
They just wnat themselves to be safe.

I think that Hezbollah should invade Israel and destroy and capture as many Isrelais as possible.
Hezbollah should start bombing tel aviv and any other Isrelais town.

Why simple,show the isrelais the cost of war and the cost of war on other by THEIR HANDS.
Perhaps then and only then will they learn peace.

Under hitler they simpered and cringe in oppresiona nd murder,but i guess they cant come to grasp with people who actually will fight for their own land..

[Woodrow]

Are they even aiming at anything? Those are crude rockets, not precision guided missiles.

But of course civilian deaths on all sides are to be condemned.

Those are crude rockets, not precision guided missiles.

The person who is the intended target of a katyusha rocket is probably the safest person on earth. Everything else has a better chance of being hit.


The katyushas are old, obsolete and highly inaccurate. They were never made to be fired as a single rocket. They value was as a mass rapid delivery of explosives. They are designed to be fired in a battery of 8 rocket launcers each launcer firing from 20 to 50 rockets at a time. In other word up to 400 rockets per minute and for about a 30 minute volley. During WW2, people that they were used against nicknamed them "Stalin's Dogs" as all they did was make a lot of noise and run around in circles.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Oh yes in urban areas fire is exchanged, but the rockets are always fired at civilians.

The rockets are fired at Israel. They don't have the aim to decide whether to fire them at a soldier or civilian as br. woodrow mentioned above. They simply attempt to fire as much as they can to cause some sort of damage ot Israel.

Over 80 rockets were launched into Sderot, Israel from the Gaza strip before the beach incident.

Okay. Do you have a link to a news article on this?

Hezbollah hides in civilian areas with the main purpose of trying to create international condemnation whenever Israel fights back. Hezbollah realizes that civilians die because they operate near schools and civilian areas.

But like I said, hiding is one thing, killing is another. The blame for killing rests squarely on the killer not the hider.

Regards

[wilberhum]

hiding is one thing, killing is another. The blame for killing rests squarely on the killer not the hider.

How about killing then hiding? I asume that is OK.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

How about killing then hiding? I asume that is OK.

No it is not okay. Someone who kills then hides should be blamed for the killing. Hiding is simply cowardly, it is not even comparable to killing which is a crime.

[Genius]

They're firing missiles at a country intent on killing as many of their civillians as possible, I'm sure they don't mean to kill arabs but these things happen.

[wilberhum]

They're firing missiles at a country intent on killing as many of their civillians as possible, I'm sure they don't mean to kill arabs but these things happen.

I'm sure they don't mean to kill arabs but these things happen. But firing missiles at a country intent on killing as many of their civillians as possible, is OK. Do you love your hate?

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]

[lavikor201]

The rockets are fired at Israel. They don't have the aim to decide whether to fire them at a soldier or civilian as br. woodrow mentioned above. They simply attempt to fire as much as they can to cause some sort of damage ot Israel.

Oh so they are all just somehow ending up at Haifa after Hezbollah declared they couild fire at Haifa? Please. To say they have no aim is ridiculous. It is not a coincidence that most of the rockets just happend to fall on the largest cities they can reach.

Okay. Do you have a link to a news article on this?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1145961383685

This happend way before the beach incident.

But like I said, hiding is one thing, killing is another. The blame for killing rests squarely on the killer not the hider.

Not when the hider hides behind innocent thinking Israel will not fire. Hezbollah will have civilian blood on there hands until they stop operating in neighborhoods where there are many innocent.

[Genius]

I'm sure they don't mean to kill arabs but these things happen. But firing missiles at a country intent on killing as many of their civillians as possible, is OK. Do you love your hate?

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]

Sorry I should have worded that better, the Israeli's are intent on killing Lebanese civillians, 600 so far compared to 19 Israeli civillians. Bare in mind Hezbollah don't have precision guided missiles.

Hate is a natural human emotion when your co-religionist and co-humans are being unjustly killed.

[Geronimo]

Salaam,

As always we have the kafirs complainign of the action of muslim as unIslmaic and so on.

and i agree.But the question to lavikor and other.

Is it in your reliogn to target civillians?
Mass murder?

Using precision weappns to target houses of civillians?

Send pamphelte to ask people to leave then destroy the road and bridges?

Hyprocrisy.

as always,they fell the bite but do not reflect on what they do to tohers.
They just wnat themselves to be safe.

I think that Hezbollah should invade Israel and destroy and capture as many Isrelais as possible.
Hezbollah should start bombing tel aviv and any other Isrelais town.

Why simple,show the isrelais the cost of war and the cost of war on other by THEIR HANDS.
Perhaps then and only then will they learn peace.

Under hitler they simpered and cringe in oppresiona nd murder,but i guess they cant come to grasp with people who actually will fight for their own land..

They do that and both Lebanon and Damascus would be rubble and the US will hold everyone els back while Israel do it. Actually I would personally send $50 from every paycheck to insure that Israel salt the earth when they are done.

[Geronimo]

The rockets are fired at Israel. They don't have the aim to decide whether to fire them at a soldier or civilian as br. woodrow mentioned above. They simply attempt to fire as much as they can to cause some sort of damage ot Israel.

Okay. Do you have a link to a news article on this?

But like I said, hiding is one thing, killing is another. The blame for killing rests squarely on the killer not the hider.

Regards

So are you saying that Hizbollah is completely off limits as long asthey launch attacks from the civilian population?

[sameer]

Salaam,

As always we have the kafirs complainign of the action of muslim as unIslmaic and so on.

and i agree.But the question to lavikor and other.

Is it in your reliogn to target civillians?
Mass murder?

Using precision weappns to target houses of civillians?

Send pamphelte to ask people to leave then destroy the road and bridges?

Hyprocrisy.

as always,they fell the bite but do not reflect on what they do to tohers.
They just wnat themselves to be safe.

I think that Hezbollah should invade Israel and destroy and capture as many Isrelais as possible.
Hezbollah should start bombing tel aviv and any other Isrelais town.

Why simple,show the isrelais the cost of war and the cost of war on other by THEIR HANDS.
Perhaps then and only then will they learn peace.

Under hitler they simpered and cringe in oppresiona nd murder,but i guess they cant come to grasp with people who actually will fight for their own land..

You forgot to ask if it is in his religion to form a "state of israel" b4 the coming of their messiah?

[sameer]

[QUOTE=lavikor201;429907]Oh yes in urban areas fire is exchanged, but the rockets are always fired at civilians.

QUOTE]
If the rockets are fired at civilians...then how come there are more soldier deaths than civilian? were the IDF hiding amongst the civilians?

[sameer]

Israeli soldiers don't hide in civilian areas like Hezbollah.

no they hide in the skies and the seas and inside tanks where the Hezbollah cant reach or harm them., and fire their rockets to kill civilians, hezbola and everything else...so when ever the war stop..the ppl who fled have nothing to return to.

[Isaac]

brother fishman, you may want to re-phrase your commenst about "all" mujaideen being corrupt, because that is a very big statement to make. Yes there are those that are not from what i see and hear fighting in accordance to the sharia rulings, and these are the ones that are made apparent to us by the media oulets. But how comes you never hear or see those mujahideen that are fighting in accordance to the sunnah of muhammed pbuh and the sharia of allah. Maybe because it would mentally destroy the people to see those that they call terrorist treating their prisoners with respect and mercy.

So the point im making is please try not to generlise.

And brother zubair, what makes you think they are fighting in revenge and not for the sake of allah. Because if there land is being attacked and their people are bring killed, according to the sharia ruling jihad becomes fard ain on the people in the land. And this is the rule of allah, so unless they come out and opelny say they are not fighting for the sake of allah, its a bit wild to say they are fighting for another cause. You say revenge, define revenge and its ruling in sharia.

[sameer]

Hezbollah is not doing anything fisabilillah, what they are doing, they are doing for revenge.

how do u know this? how do u know what is in the heart of the young soldiers fighting for their country/ love ones etc. Is it not in the part of ALlah to fight to protect ure family if u are being invaded or oppressed? Maybe there are soldiers fighting for this reason only...but u feel the need to judge them...or did u forget that we all will face judgement by the only one who is in a postion to judge?

[sameer]

brother fishman, you may want to re-phrase your commenst about "all" mujaideen being corrupt, because that is a very big statement to make. Yes there are those that are not from what i see and hear fighting in accordance to the sharia rulings, and these are the ones that are made apparent to us by the media oulets. But how comes you never hear or see those mujahideen that are fighting in accordance to the sunnah of muhammed pbuh and the sharia of allah. Maybe because it would mentally destroy the people to see those that they call terrorist treating their prisoners with respect and mercy.

So the point im making is please try not to generlise.

And brother zubair, what makes you think they are fighting in revenge and not for the sake of allah. Because if there land is being attacked and their people are bring killed, according to the sharia ruling jihad becomes fard ain on the people in the land. And this is the rule of allah, so unless they come out and opelny say they are not fighting for the sake of allah, its a bit wild to say they are fighting for another cause. You say revenge, define revenge and its ruling in sharia.

Well said brother.... my point exactly.

[adi8putra]

It does but you have to ask what is the proportion of civilians killed to the amount of explosives dropped.

What do you mean by that? Are u impying that the life of the lebanese civilians r worthless? That they r indeed fair game? Is that what u r trying 2 imply? I'm simply tired of all of these rhetorics. ALL LIFE ARE PRECIOUS! There r no such things as `proportion of civilains killed' or other words to describe it. Life r not mere statistics! Ask that to all of the mothers of these world, all of them will reply just the same. It took 9 months for a soul to be conceived, and it just take plain hatred and prejudice to destroy them all. I'm against all of these killings, be it from either the Lebanese or the Israeli's side.

Of course there is a problem here: 1. the Israeli Army does not hide and it fights in the open

Wow dude! what else do u expect. Someone from the other thread r implying that Israel is the FIFTH mightiest armies in the world. It hv sophisticated weaponries, all supplied by United States of America. If any other Arab's countries can't even stand against Israel in any open warfare (I'm just making an example here, nor did I want the Arab countries to get involved in these war...:heated: ), what do u expect the chances of a rag tag armies of Hezbollah in an open warfare? Do u take Hezbollah as an idiot?

how do you know who is a civilian or not in Lebanon? Hezbollah dresses like civilians and hides among them. If a Hezbollah man dies in civilian clothes who is to say whether he was a fighter or not?

It dont take a genius to differentiate Hezbollah from the rests of the victims, who r mainly woman, old folks and childrens... Especially childrens! What kind of arguments r these? Again, r u implying that this is indeed a justification for Israel to blatantly causing endless misery and carnage to Lebanon? Is the END justifies the MEANS? If your answer is yes, then u r no better that the one that u r accusing now.......!:uhwhat

The question remains: is there a moral justification for firing missiles that can only kill civilians? Hezbollah thinks so. May I ask if you think this is Islamic?

What kind of morality r u talking? What made Israel any different than Hezbollah? Hezbollah is firing crude missile into Israel, hoping on chances for it to landed on some populated area. Meanwhile, Israel is firing precision guided missiles and bombs to systematically destroyed Lebanon as a whole. What kind of morality is this? What Hezbollah did is NOT in principles with Islamic morality, as no where in islam that says killing innocent civilians are justified! There is no such things as the end justified the means in Islam. But again, u r missing the whole point here! The whole thing is not about Islam but rather about humanity! This crisis transcends into all boundaries. It is just not about Islam. It's about the whole muslim, christian, druze and other human being in Lebanon being victimised, just bcoz they happened 2 be a Lebanese.

Last, i'm against these war. I DO NOT APPROVED the action of Hezbollah, and NEITHER DO I APPROVE the reaction of Israel. But, if Israel continue with its offensive against the innocent civilians, I'm afraid that most people will end up by supporting Hezbollah. So, the cycle never ends, really. That's 4 u 2 ponder.

[sameer]

Are there israel military bases in Haifa? seems so.....so then by some of the logic used by the israeli supporters that Hezbollah hides amongst civilians and has bases in civilain cities and that they deserved to be bomb can also be applied to Haifa?

Haifa Airport ("U. Micheali")
(Bacha 21). Former Ottoman Turkish airfield in WW1, then rebuilt in 1934 as civil flying field. RAF base in WW2, to IDF/AF in May 1948. Located at Kishon Harbour, north of Haifa, on the coast of North East Israel. ICAO Code: LLHA. Location coordinates: N32 48.6 E035 02.6, elevation 28 ft (9m). One runway 16/34 degrees of 4183 ft (1275 m) length. The home of the IDF/AF Technical School. Hosts a permanent AB212 detachment and has a wartime role as an emergency airfield. The Haifa Bay area houses several military installations

http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/w...el/iafbase.htm

Just two hours after the fatal attack in Haifa, a second barrage of rockets landed in the city's port area and Nahariya. A third barrage hit the Haifa area on Sunday afternoon. Nobody was wounded in that attack. Air raid sirens had sounded immediately before the Katyushas hit. Fifteen soldiers suffered from smoke inhalation Sunday night after a Katyusha rocket landed near a military base in the North.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

Haifa boasts a naval base, a shipping port and oil refineries, but the vulnerability of Israel's third-largest city to Hezbollah rocket salvos has taken some residents by surprise.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060...5125-1567r.htm

[Geronimo]

There seems to be an awful lot of muslims out there that go against islam. Everytime a kafir bring up bad things done by muslims to non muslims the arguement is "What they are doing is against Islam! But I can relate! Death to the zionista and America!". These acts are becoming more and more which makes me wonder, if all of these people are doing things that are against Islam are they truelly muslim? If they are then we has to be a problem within Islam that it allows these acts and still allow these people to call themselves muslim. If they are not muslim then that 1 billion number is pure bs.

[Geronimo]

Are there israel military bases in Haifa? seems so.....so then by some of the logic used by the israeli supporters that Hezbollah hides amongst civilians and has bases in civilain cities and that they deserved to be bomb can also be applied to Haifa?

Haifa Airport ("U. Micheali")
(Bacha 21). Former Ottoman Turkish airfield in WW1, then rebuilt in 1934 as civil flying field. RAF base in WW2, to IDF/AF in May 1948. Located at Kishon Harbour, north of Haifa, on the coast of North East Israel. ICAO Code: LLHA. Location coordinates: N32 48.6 E035 02.6, elevation 28 ft (9m). One runway 16/34 degrees of 4183 ft (1275 m) length. The home of the IDF/AF Technical School. Hosts a permanent AB212 detachment and has a wartime role as an emergency airfield. The Haifa Bay area houses several military installations

http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/w...el/iafbase.htm

Just two hours after the fatal attack in Haifa, a second barrage of rockets landed in the city's port area and Nahariya. A third barrage hit the Haifa area on Sunday afternoon. Nobody was wounded in that attack. Air raid sirens had sounded immediately before the Katyushas hit. Fifteen soldiers suffered from smoke inhalation Sunday night after a Katyusha rocket landed near a military base in the North.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

Haifa boasts a naval base, a shipping port and oil refineries, but the vulnerability of Israel's third-largest city to Hezbollah rocket salvos has taken some residents by surprise.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060...5125-1567r.htm

But these assets are close enough and the rockets inaccurate enough that it put civilians in danger. So according to your logic these targets should be off limits because innocents will get hurt or does it not matter because they are kaffirs?

[lavikor201]

99% of the damage from these rockets is towards civilians. Are there many bases in Nazareth where a little Muslims girl was slaughtered by the Hezbollah terrorists who could not care less about there own people. To Hezbollah muslims may be sacrificed to destroy the Jews.

[sameer]

There seems to be an awful lot of muslims out there that go against islam. Everytime a kafir bring up bad things done by muslims to non muslims the arguement is "What they are doing is against Islam! But I can relate! Death to the zionista and America!". These acts are becoming more and more which makes me wonder, if all of these people are doing things that are against Islam are they truelly muslim? If they are then we has to be a problem within Islam that it allows these acts and still allow these people to call themselves muslim. If they are not muslim then that 1 billion number is pure bs.

Same can be said about Christianity and Judahism. But u dont see thewhole world attacking Christianity and Judahism whenever they do crap...oh yeah..they just change their "religous laws" to justify their actions. Are they still christians or what ever?

[sameer]

99% of the damage from these rockets is towards civilians. Are there many bases in Nazareth where a little Muslims girl was slaughtered by the Hezbollah terrorists who could not care less about there own people. To Hezbollah muslims may be sacrificed to destroy the Jews.

Dosent the same apply to the jews? that few jews and many muslims/ non jews be sacrificed to expand Israel?

[Geronimo]

Same can be said about Christianity and Judahism. But u dont see thewhole world attacking Christianity and Judahism whenever they do crap...oh yeah..they just change their "religous laws" to justify their actions. Are they still christians or what ever?

How many buses have Christians blown up? How many christians go around saying death to Mecca and Medina? When a Jew or a Christian does something that is horrific (like Timothy McViegh) it is condemned loudly and punished. In the muslim world they are held up as warrior martyrs (Zaqwari)

[Geronimo]

Dosent the same apply to the jews? that few jews and many muslims/ non jews be sacrificed to expand Israel?

Giving back Gaza and Southern Lebanon is a hell of a way to expand:rollseyes

[sameer]

But these assets are close enough and the rockets inaccurate enough that it put civilians in danger. So according to your logic these targets should be off limits because innocents will get hurt or does it not matter because they are kaffirs?

I never said that it is ok for kaffirs to be hurt as u are implying...but on the other hand u and ure supporters keep Justifying israel killig of innocnets beacuse of the Hezbollah bases in lebanon. Then u argue that innocents are being killed in Haifa even though there are bases there....SO what really is ure Point or where do u stand or where do u draw the line on ure blantant biasness?

[HeiGou]

What do you mean by that? Are u impying that the life of the lebanese civilians r worthless? That they r indeed fair game? Is that what u r trying 2 imply? I'm simply tired of all of these rhetorics. ALL LIFE ARE PRECIOUS! There r no such things as `proportion of civilains killed' or other words to describe it. Life r not mere statistics! Ask that to all of the mothers of these world, all of them will reply just the same. It took 9 months for a soul to be conceived, and it just take plain hatred and prejudice to destroy them all. I'm against all of these killings, be it from either the Lebanese or the Israeli's side.

I am trying to make a distinction between what Israel and Hezbollah want to do as opposed to what they actually do. Hezbollah is not, after all, very competent at what it does. It lacks the technology or the numbers. But what counts is not so much what they do as what they are trying to do.

Let me join you in condemning all intentional killings.

Wow dude! what else do u expect. Someone from the other thread r implying that Israel is the FIFTH mightiest armies in the world. It hv sophisticated weaponries, all supplied by United States of America. If any other Arab's countries can't even stand against Israel in any open warfare (I'm just making an example here, nor did I want the Arab countries to get involved in these war...:heated: ), what do u expect the chances of a rag tag armies of Hezbollah in an open warfare? Do u take Hezbollah as an idiot?

I expect them not to fight.

It dont take a genius to differentiate Hezbollah from the rests of the victims, who r mainly woman, old folks and childrens... Especially childrens!

I am not convinced most of their victims are children, much less that they are mainly women, the old and children. What is your evidence of that?

What kind of arguments r these? Again, r u implying that this is indeed a justification for Israel to blatantly causing endless misery and carnage to Lebanon? Is the END justifies the MEANS? If your answer is yes, then u r no better that the one that u r accusing now.......!:uhwhat

Of course some ends justify some means. Whether this one does or not I do not know. I know that Hezbollah attacked Israel and Lebanon is not doing enough to stop them.

What kind of morality r u talking? What made Israel any different than Hezbollah? Hezbollah is firing crude missile into Israel, hoping on chances for it to landed on some populated area. Meanwhile, Israel is firing precision guided missiles and bombs to systematically destroyed Lebanon as a whole. What kind of morality is this?

I am surprised that you think that reflects well on Hwzbollah. Surely if they are firing crude missiles into Israel hoping to kill civilians, they are doing a bad thing?

Last, i'm against these war. I DO NOT APPROVED the action of Hezbollah, and NEITHER DO I APPROVE the reaction of Israel. But, if Israel continue with its offensive against the innocent civilians, I'm afraid that most people will end up by supporting Hezbollah. So, the cycle never ends, really. That's 4 u 2 ponder.

I think that people support Hezbollah anyway.

[adi8putra]

There seems to be an awful lot of muslims out there that go against islam. Everytime a kafir bring up bad things done by muslims to non muslims the arguement is "What they are doing is against Islam! But I can relate! Death to the zionista and America!". These acts are becoming more and more which makes me wonder, if all of these people are doing things that are against Islam are they truelly muslim? If they are then we has to be a problem within Islam that it allows these acts and still allow these people to call themselves muslim. If they are not muslim then that 1 billion number is pure bs.

who said so? among the 1 billion plus of muslim in the world, most r just peace loving people. Who r contented with their lives & never bothered to cause mischiefs onto others. But, as in any society, there will always be a handfull of minority who will go to the extreme. In this case, the muslims r no different. so, how can u pass remarks on the action of a handful minority? that is very prejudice in nature!

[lavikor201]

I never said that it is ok for kaffirs to be hurt as u are implying...but on the other hand u and ure supporters keep Justifying israel killig of innocnets beacuse of the Hezbollah bases in lebanon. Then u argue that innocents are being killed in Haifa even though there are bases there....SO what really is ure Point or where do u stand or where do u draw the line on ure blantant biasness?

This should not even be an argument. According to UN Security Council Resolution 1559, it is the responsibility of the Lebanese government to disarm Hezbollah and to assert Lebanese sovereignty in southern Lebanon. Israel a member of the UN is being effected by the fact that Lebonon is ignorant enough to not follow UN resolutions.

Israel a member of the UN is enforcing a UN resolution.

Hezbollah on the other hand could care less about the UN.

The UN people are observers so they cannot fight back. Hezbollah is using UN observing posts as human shields. The same way they use women and children!!!!

That UN post, in the words of the Canadian peacekeeper who was killed there, was being used by Hezbollah as cover. As retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie, interviewed on CBC radio, explained:


"We received emails from [the Canadian peacekeeper who was killed at the UN post] a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted. Now that's veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it."
Furthermore, Hezbollah has attacked UNIFIL observers repeatedly this week. From the UN's own press releases:


In the last 24 hours... Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Marwahin, Alma Ash Shab, Bra****, and At Tiri. (27 July 2006)

One unarmed UN military observer, a member of the Observer Group Lebanon (OGL), was seriously wounded by small arms fire in the patrol base in the Marun Al Ras area yesterday afternoon. According to preliminary reports, the fire originated from the Hezbollah side during an exchange with the IDF. He was evacuated by the UN to the Israeli side, from where he was taken by an IDF ambulance helicopter to a hospital in Haifa. He was operated on, and his condition is now reported as stable. (24 July 2006)
Note that the UN observer was injured badly enough to be evacuated to an Israeli hospital -- where they saved his life. Kofi Annan's reaction? Not a word of condemnation against Hezbollah, and not a word of gratitude for Israel's rescue of the UN observer.

[sameer]

How many buses have Christians blown up? How many christians go around saying death to Mecca and Medina? When a Jew or a Christian does something that is horrific (like Timothy McViegh) it is condemned loudly and punished. In the muslim world they are held up as warrior martyrs (Zaqwari)

So are u saying that only muslims blow up buses? and commit murders etc? check ure country and see who the most amount of murders are commited by whom?

What about the Irish? what about the other terrorist act around hte world that are not commited by muslims? what about david koresh and Waco texas? who were the terrorist/ killers- not the federal officials?

ALso....do u know all the muslims? to say that they donnot condemn terroist acts? or do u look at the reaction of the muslims on CNN when ever soemthing happens.... Do u not know they can be palying a tape from file over and over to get across the message that they want? Have u not heard of hollywood and actors and doctoring of tapes?
Offcourse u would think this is crap..after all u think u know it all

[Geronimo]

I never said that it is ok for kaffirs to be hurt as u are implying...but on the other hand u and ure supporters keep Justifying israel killig of innocnets beacuse of the Hezbollah bases in lebanon. Then u argue that innocents are being killed in Haifa even though there are bases there....SO what really is ure Point or where do u stand or where do u draw the line on ure blantant biasness?

Hezbollah has military assets in the civilian population. Those assets are legitimate targets. If civilians get killed their blood is on Hezbollah's hand. If Hezbollah is trying to hit military targets then they are legitimate targets also

[Geronimo]

who said so? among the 1 billion plus of muslim in the world, most r just peace loving people. Who r contented with their lives & never bothered to cause mischiefs onto others. But, as in any society, there will always be a handfull of minority who will go to the extreme. In this case, the muslims r no different. so, how can u pass remarks on the action of a handful minority? that is very prejudice in nature!

Let's just say it's just 1% that do evil. What's 1% of a billion? That's not a small problem. That wasn't what I asked anyway. Since they are doing something against Islam are they muslim or not?

[sameer]

This should not even be an argument. According to UN Security Council Resolution 1559, it is the responsibility of the Lebanese government to disarm Hezbollah and to assert Lebanese sovereignty in southern Lebanon. Israel a member of the UN is being effected by the fact that Lebonon is ignorant enough to not follow UN resolutions.

Israel a member of the UN is enforcing a UN resolution.

Hezbollah on the other hand could care less about the UN.

[

HAAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAH
Dont even mention UN and Israel in one breath
how come they chose which UN resolutions to support? How come they dont support UN resolutions that has taken a stance for ppl other than Israel? Dont even talk about UN and Israel. Israel dosent care about the UN...neither does the US for that matter.

Oh yeah...since ue a jew....what do u think about the establishment of Israel b4 the coming of ure mesiah?

[sameer]

Let's just say it's just 1% that do evil. What's 1% of a billion? That's not a small problem. That wasn't what I asked anyway. Since they are doing something against Islam are they muslim or not?

Yes they are still muslim. If they does something against islam and it had an islamic court of law enforcing sharia then they should be judged and punish accordingly.

[sameer]

Hezbollah has military assets in the civilian population. Those assets are legitimate targets. If civilians get killed their blood is on Hezbollah's hand. If Hezbollah is trying to hit military targets then they are legitimate targets also

So i take it i wont see u saying anything or using the Haifa attacks in ure arguments anymore? since uve just agreed with the bombing of haifa?

[Geronimo]

So are u saying that only muslims blow up buses? and commit murders etc? check ure country and see who the most amount of murders are commited by whom?

What about the Irish? what about the other terrorist act around hte world that are not commited by muslims? what about david koresh and Waco texas? who were the terrorist/ killers- not the federal officials?

ALso....do u know all the muslims? to say that they donnot condemn terroist acts? or do u look at the reaction of the muslims on CNN when ever soemthing happens.... Do u not know they can be palying a tape from file over and over to get across the message that they want? Have u not heard of hollywood and actors and doctoring of tapes?
Offcourse u would think this is crap..after all u think u know it all

No it's not only muslims but the majority are. When was the last time the IRA committed a terrorist attack? The Waco incident wasn't a terrorist act. Do I know all terrorists? No. Do I know what people write here? Yes. People were acting like Zaqwari and Abdul Khalim Saidullayev were the second coming of Mohammed. As for doctored tapes are you saying Al-Jazerra play doctored tapes now? Every beheading was played on Al-Jazeera. They show people lining up to become suicide bombers on Iranian tv. But oh I forgot the zionist own those stations too :rollseyes

[sameer]

So are u saying that only muslims blow up buses? and commit murders etc? check ure country and see who the most amount of murders are commited by whom?

What about the Irish? what about the other terrorist act around hte world that are not commited by muslims? what about david koresh and Waco texas? who were the terrorist/ killers- not the federal officials?

ALso....do u know all the muslims? to say that they donnot condemn terroist acts? or do u look at the reaction of the muslims on CNN when ever soemthing happens.... Do u not know they can be palying a tape from file over and over to get across the message that they want? Have u not heard of hollywood and actors and doctoring of tapes?
Offcourse u would think this is crap..after all u think u know it all

I forgot to mention the Serbs and the ethnic cleansing of the muslims by the Christians .

[Geronimo]

HAAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAH
Dont even mention UN and Israel in one breath
how come they chose which UN resolutions to support? How come they dont support UN resolutions that has taken a stance for ppl other than Israel? Dont even talk about UN and Israel. Israel dosent care about the UN...neither does the US for that matter.

Oh yeah...since ue a jew....what do u think about the establishment of Israel b4 the coming of ure mesiah?

Have you ever read the resolution against Israel? The Pals haven't lived up to their end either.

[Geronimo]

Yes they are still muslim. If they does something against islam and it had an islamic court of law enforcing sharia then they should be judged and punish accordingly.

Well there's something wrong with your law enforcement because an awful lot of them are running free.

[Geronimo]

So i take it i wont see u saying anything or using the Haifa attacks in ure arguments anymore? since uve just agreed with the bombing of haifa?

No I agreed to hitting military targets there not just lobbing them wherever they feel like it.

[Geronimo]

I forgot to mention the Serbs and the ethnic cleansing of the muslims by the Christians .

Wasn't it Christians that saved them? I could have sworn that it was the US that got rid of the Slobbadan. By the way it was proven there was no ethnic cleansing there.

[Obi-Wan]

Why are Islams freedom fighters firing at there brothers and sisters!?!

They are killing Arabs in Israel, they are even aiming at Arab towns!

This is what Jonathan Cook had to say:

Crossing red lines

The fact that Hizbullah's rockets are not precision-guided should not lead us to conclude that they are entirely inaccurate or random. It is clear from the main targets Hizbullah is selecting that its priority is to hit sensitive sites: Haifa, the economic hub of the north, its satellite towns, as well as military installations that are dotted across the Galilee.

[...] Even the most problematic Hizbullah strike, one that killed two Muslim children in the Israeli Arab city of Nazareth last week, is not quite as it appears. Although it was of little consolation to the residents here, Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah used a rare televised appearance immediately afterwards to apologise for the deaths.

Not only did his words of regret confound those commentators, including the Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert, who have claimed that the Shiite militia wants to kill Christians in the Holy Land - Nasrallah, unlike many in our media, knows the city is mainly Muslim - but the apology also confirmed that the strike was intended for a target other than Nazareth.

Local inhabitants did not doubt that. They understand too that Israeli media reports that Hizbullah has repeatedly hit areas near Nazareth's neighbour, the mixed Jewish and Arab city of Upper Nazareth, are glossing over the facts. Close by both Nazareths is a major weapons factory that Hizbullah has clearly identified and is trying to strike. Many of the other sites Hizbullah has been targeting on a regular basis are military. Its chances of damaging these fortified positions are low, but it is striking at them nonetheless. It may be hoping to send a deterrent signal that, if it knows where Israel's military Achilles' heels are to be found, so do its patrons, Syria and Iran.

And also consider this from Haaretz:

Four Katyusha rockets land near Rosh Hanikra overnight

Warning sirens did not activate in Nazareth prior to attack, giving no advanced indication of a coming rocket. MK Talab A-Sana (Ra'am Ta'al) said most of the Arab towns in the area were not equipped with warning sirens or bomb shelters.

[sameer]

No it's not only muslims but the majority are. When was the last time the IRA committed a terrorist attack? The Waco incident wasn't a terrorist act. Do I know all terrorists? No. Do I know what people write here? Yes. People were acting like Zaqwari and Abdul Khalim Saidullayev were the second coming of Mohammed.

Now uve limited ure statement to ppl on this forum..when b4 u were caliming that an awful lot of muslims out there support the guy. Make up ure mind.



Every beheading was played on Al-Jazeera.

As for doctored tapes are you saying Al-Jazerra play doctored tapes now?
I dunno..maybe...but how do i know that cnn arent playing doctored tapes and claim they got it from aljeezera? How come u pick and choose to believe what suits u from easten news agencies?

They show people lining up to become suicide bombers on Iranian tv. But oh I forgot the zionist own those stations too

U understand arabic to know what they're reporting?
and i cant defend/ answer for those ppl who are lining up to be suicide bombers.. But then again...u have ure ideas of all muslims.

............................

[sameer]

Wasn't it Christians that saved them? I could have sworn that it was the US that got rid of the Slobbadan. By the way it was proven there was no ethnic cleansing there.

wasnt it the UN? are onyl christians in the UN.... and btw who allowed it to happen in the first place? wasnt it Un forces from a UN nation standing by and watching the atrocities happen?
BTW...i never gave the impression that All christians are bad liek the way u like to portray muslims.

AAnd where u got that crap from that there was no ethnic cleansing?
lol after a statement like that..u expect anyone to take u seriously?

[Obi-Wan]

This I time I did get the right Haaretz link. :)
They've changed the article.

A google search for
haaretz "Warning sirens did not activate"

confirms that they printed it in article 740309

here is the cached copy: google cached

The current version is totally different to the original!

[adi8putra]

I am trying to make a distinction between what Israel and Hezbollah want to do as opposed to what they actually do. Hezbollah is not, after all, very competent at what it does. It lacks the technology or the numbers. But what counts is not so much what they do as what they are trying to do.

Let me join you in condemning all intentional killings.

Agreed. I would just want to go a little bit further. I would like to CONDEMN this war.

I expect them not to fight.

The way i see it, Hezbollah r desperate. They hv totally miscalculated on the Israel's reaction to their earlier action. They hv 2 show that they atleast hv the means 2 fight back.

I am not convinced most of their victims are children, much less that they are mainly women, the old and children. What is your evidence of that?

The same can be said 2 u. What is ur proof that the number of those killed r mainly Hezbollah? whatever it is, the fact remains that old folks, woman & children r constantly being killed.

Of course some ends justify some means. Whether this one does or not I do not know. I know that Hezbollah attacked Israel and Lebanon is not doing enough to stop them.

Than u r no better than Hezbollah.....:rollseyes

I am surprised that you think that reflects well on Hwzbollah. Surely if they are firing crude missiles into Israel hoping to kill civilians, they are doing a bad thing?

Why is it surprising? I'll tell u three why it reflects well on Hezbollah (even though they r doing a bad thing).
1. They hv been resisting IDF for more than 3 weeks.... Last time when Israel goes to war, it does not even lasted a full one week. they deserved 2 be given some credits for that.
2. They hv been quite successful, even in their limited way in inflicting some damages to IDF.
3. They hv been forcing most Israeli's in the nothern region to taste the life under bunker as kind of some people under occupation. Nobody ever manage to do that b4.

I think that people support Hezbollah anyway.

Again, u r being biased here. As hv been highlighted by Lara b4, most Lebanese dont even support Hezbollah anyway. But the way the IDF is causing miserable grief 2 them, i'm not surprised if they end up supporting Hezbollah anyway..... Do they've got some other alternative other than that? No, they dont! Not by IDF and not by the international community.

[S]What Hezbollah did was wrong!
What Israel did, does not make it right!
These whole war is wrong...........[/S]

[Keltoi]

Wasn't it Christians that saved them? I could have sworn that it was the US that got rid of the Slobbadan. By the way it was proven there was no ethnic cleansing there.

I realize that the line between ethnic cleansing and massacres is sort of grey, but 7,000 Muslims were execute in a 1995 massacre in the city of Srebrenicad. However, there is plenty of evidence that the other factions in the war also committed massacres. There was also evidence of concentration camps. I would say there was definitely the intention to commit ethnic cleansing, but it wasn't anything close to the ethnic cleansing in Germany during WWII, the genocide in Rwanda, or what is happening in Darfur.

[Geronimo]

I realize that the line between ethnic cleansing and massacres is sort of grey, but 7,000 Muslims were execute in a 1995 massacre in the city of Srebrenicad. However, there is plenty of evidence that the other factions in the war also committed massacres. There was also evidence of concentration camps. I would say there was definitely the intention to commit ethnic cleansing, but it wasn't anything close to the ethnic cleansing in Germany during WWII, the genocide in Rwanda, or what is happening in Darfur.

I'll give you that. When I saw ethnic cleanse I was thinking Genocide which isn't the same thing.

[SirZubair]

Forget it. This debate is pointless.

Condemning the 'freedom fighters' isn't going to stop them in their tracks.

Condoning the 'freedom fighters' isn't going to make them victorious.

Give it up people, you won't be able to solve the worlds problems online.

Just let it be. Accept this idiotic war as a fact of life and move on.

Wa'salaam.

[kadafi]

Wasn't it Christians that saved them? I could have sworn that it was the US that got rid of the Slobbadan. By the way it was proven there was no ethnic cleansing there.

Yes, for political reasons. The Clinton administration largely ignored the systematic genocide until '95 where he used the crisis as a means to influence his re-election. For four idle years he ignored the genocide and the majority of the American public agreed with him. As Thomas Friedman said before the intervention: I don't give two cents about Bosnia ... not two cents.

I am not going to dwelve in to UN "Protection Force"'s direct and indirect involvement of the massacres. That is for a seperate topic.

The genocide has been termed as ethnic cleansing by virtually the entire world.

[Rou]

Indeed..they should all stop the killing...

only diffrence is hezbollah have less control on there targets and israel knows exactly what its doing and is doing much worse damage and carnage of human life...

indeed hezbollah should stop but by killing almost ten times the amount of civilians in lebbanon as in israel , israel does not help the situation...

[ManchesterFolk]

Hezbollah knows exactly where they are firing!

Haifa is a civilian area! The Military is in Lebonon.

[Rou]

Hezbollah knows exactly where they are firing!

Haifa is a civilian area! The Military is in Lebonon.

AS i stated Lessidea where they are shooting but israel holds the most precise weapons in the world...and are a goverment that is suppoused to be a democracy...

being a democracy they should realise that the people of lebbanon or the goverment are not responsible for the actions of what it calls terrorists..

also a goverment that gives a country 800 deaths and millions displaced beacuse of two soilders obviously has some issues with its better judgment...

how many dead jews and how many dead lebonese!??

• Israel (estimate) 100
• Leabonese (estimate) 800

it does not balance out at all....

Neither cide deserve innocent deaths...

but pls wake up....

[MRR]

At this point it seems it is no longer so much about two soldiers, as it is about removing the continued threat that Hezbollah poses. They have went this far. Even if they get the soldiers now, they should keep pushing and remove Hezbollah.

[adi8putra]

[S]make PEAECE, not WAR![/S]

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yes, for political reasons. The Clinton administration largely ignored the systematic genocide until '95 where he used the crisis as a means to influence his re-election. For four idle years he ignored the genocide and the majority of the American public agreed with him. As Thomas Friedman said before the intervention: I don't give two cents about Bosnia ... not two cents.

I am not going to dwelve in to UN "Protection Force"'s direct and indirect involvement of the massacres. That is for a seperate topic.

The genocide has been termed as ethnic cleansing by virtually the entire world.

He only did this, after what happened in Somalia with the US troops. So he thought why should they bother!

[sameer]

Hezbollah knows exactly where they are firing!

Haifa is a civilian area! The Military is in Lebonon.

So there are no military bases in Haifa?
Geranimo please educate this guy

[Skillganon]

They are killing Arabs in Israel, they are even aiming at Arab towns!

Is this how they treat there brothers and sisters in Israel?????

I guess so...

Hezbollah must stop firing at Arab and Jewish civilian targets to be recongnized as anything but a bunch of thugs who wish to see children die! What have the Arabs in Israel ever done to you Hezbollah!?!

Hezbollah = Cowards.

More importantly it can be said why have you droven out the indegeniouse people, upturn their land, bulldozers their home e.t.c and start firing at people of lebanon. ISrael is a bunch of thugs and the arab towns their are anything but cowards, how long have you sat by and see the people of gaza suffered. Oppression is worse than death.
HEzbollah is standing up for the people, and unfortunetly they don't have precision rockets but damn they are standing up for the palestinian people, and one day the Israeli goverment will be dismantle, than it will be best for the peace in middle east.

Hezbollah is not a terrorist, but Israel has been for the last 40-50 years.

[Skillganon]

I realize that the line between ethnic cleansing and massacres is sort of grey, but 7,000 Muslims were execute in a 1995 massacre in the city of Srebrenicad. However, there is plenty of evidence that the other factions in the war also committed massacres. There was also evidence of concentration camps. I would say there was definitely the intention to commit ethnic cleansing, but it wasn't anything close to the ethnic cleansing in Germany during WWII, the genocide in Rwanda, or what is happening in Darfur.

Exactly, we should of condemn what happened in rwanda and all this other countries. Unfortunetly they don't get the same degree of attention in the media.

[Ghazi]

:sl:

All of the Mujahideen are corrupt,

Not true it has nothing to do with corruption it's desperation, oh the sins were getting for allowing them to commit such actions.

[wilberhum]

Why are Islams freedom fighters firing at there brothers and sisters

Maybe they are not “Freedom Fighters”?

Back in the 60’s idiot bigots would ask “Why is there Black on Black” crime.
The answer is so obvious that it is sad. A criminal doesn’t care what the color of your skin is.

So if they are firing at there brothers and sisters, maybe it is as simple as they don’t care who they fire on.