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lavikor201
08-01-2006, 04:27 PM
By: Joseph Farah - Arab Reporter of Lebanese decent.

You know, it's funny.

For years I've been trying to get people to pay attention to the deaths and destruction and injustices being perpetrated on my beloved Lebanon.

And nobody cared.

When Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization tried to take over the country and make it his terrorist playground, nobody cared.

When people were dying by the thousands in the civil war, nobody cared.

When Syria had its boot on the neck of its tiny neighbor for 25 years, nobody cared.

When Iran dispatched Hezbollah terrorists into the country to undermine home rule by Lebanese, nobody cared.

When Muslims chased millions of Christians from the country, tipping the balance of power, nobody cared.

But now, all eyes are on Lebanon.

Do you know why?

Because Israel has tried to clean up this hornet's nest. Yet, all we hear about is how many Lebanese are dying.

Can I let you in on a little secret?

Guess what the total death toll is among Lebanese during the extent of this war – including Hezbollah terrorists, many of whom are not really Lebanese?

You better sit down.

The total death toll is just over 500.

Now, far be it for me to minimize death tolls. One innocent death is a tragedy. But this is the total – all terrorists, civilians, Lebanese army, everything.

The whole world is going nuts over this "slaughter."

What is needed is some perspective here. May I offer it?

Last month alone, U.S. troops in Afghanistan announced killing 600 "suspected" Taliban. That's one month alone. We've been occupying this foreign country since 2002. It began in response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. U.S. forces went halfway around the world to attack a sovereign nation, to overthrow the government and kill as many people as it deemed necessary over the last five years to prevent more terrorist attacks in the future. Few would suggest that Afghanistan represents any imminent threat to the U.S. today. By the way, according to U.S. military spokesmen, a total of 1,700 Afghanis have been killed since the start of the year. That includes some civilians, some aid workers and more than 70 foreign troops.

But, last time I checked, there weren't demonstrations in the streets of the U.S. or elsewhere around the world over this war.

Instead, everybody is going ape over Lebanon.

By the way, the government of Afghanistan, installed by the U.S., is happy about the war. President Hamid Karzai wants to see the terrorists rooted out of his country. He recognizes it represents the best chance for his nation to be free.

Meanwhile, back in Lebanon, a government that has tolerated terrorist bases on its soil for years and years is suddenly indignant about Israel's retaliation against incessant attacks from those strongholds.

Does any of this make sense?

Do you think those screaming about the bloodshed in Lebanon really give a hoot about Lebanon? If so, where have they been for the last 30 years?

Why is Lebanon the top story in every newscast? Why is Lebanon on the front page of every newspaper? Don't you get the impression that the violence there is probably worse than anywhere else on the planet from this focus?

Clearly it is not.

And the only difference is who's doing the butt kicking in Lebanon.

As for me, an American of Lebanese and Syrian heritage, I don't want to see a "cease-fire." I want to see Lebanon freed of the terrorist blight, once and for all. I want to see Lebanon freed from domination by Iran and Syria. I want to see Lebanon be Lebanon. I don't want to see Lebanon suffer for another 30 years. It's time to clean up the mess and allow this poor, little country to heal.

And that means getting rid of the disease of Hezbollah – now.

Worldnetdaily
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
08-01-2006, 04:41 PM
How is this guy so sure that 500 people have been killed in lebanon when so many bodies have not even been discovered yet or have been gieven that chance to so. There will be many more deaths in the country what Israel in Lebanon is wrong, what USA/UK are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is wrong. When will these people be given the right to live their lives without being occupied, bombed, starved. The sad thing is people are telling other people how they should be living their lives, what's right and wrong for them and before they have a chance to say a word they are bombed into pieces in the name of peace.
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
08-01-2006, 04:44 PM
I can't believe this guy is trying to justify all the deaths in Lebanon because there is more violence going on in the rest of the world.
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j4763
08-01-2006, 04:51 PM
Well no one seems to give a hoot about Darfur anymore :rollseyes
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
08-01-2006, 05:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by j4763
Well no one seems to give a hoot about Darfur anymore :rollseyes

The most we can do for it is speak up against the deaths beaing caused offer our prayers to God for the innocent lives and give in charity.
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lavikor201
08-01-2006, 05:43 PM
can't believe this guy is trying to justify all the deaths in Lebanon because there is more violence going on in the rest of the world.
Are you an Arab of Lebonese descent? He is... It might sound crazy to you, but maybe he wants his country Lebonon run by the goverment, not the proxy for Syria and Iran... ever think of that?

Well no one seems to give a hoot about Darfur anymore
If Israel or the USA was in Dafur the Arab world would be screaming, but instead it is the Arab-dominated Sudanese government that is commiting atrocities against non-Arabs in Sudan so this forum is pretty quite about it.
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
08-01-2006, 05:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Are you an Arab of Lebonese descent? He is... It might sound crazy to you, but maybe he wants his country Lebonon run by the goverment, not the proxy for Syria and Iran... ever think of that?

Maybe the 600+ innocent LIVES and 100'S and thousands of homeless ARABS OF LEBONESE DECENT would STILL have been living happily if it wasn't for the massive Israeli bombing....EVER THINK OF THAT!???!!

If Israel or the USA was in Dafur the Arab world would be screaming, but instead it is the Arab-dominated Sudanese government that is commiting atrocities against non-Arabs in Sudan so this forum is pretty quite about it.
Whether forum is pretty quite about the issue or not it doesn't justify what Israel is doing in Lebanon.
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lavikor201
08-01-2006, 06:22 PM
Maybe the 600+ innocent LIVES and 100'S and thousands of homeless ARABS OF LEBONESE DECENT would STILL have been living happily if it wasn't for the massive Israeli bombing....EVER THINK OF THAT!???!!
Maybe if Lebonon followed the very clear resolution put forth by the UN to disarm Hezbollah, or maybe if Hezbollah didn't escalate this conflict by raiding Israeli territory the 600 dead would still be living hapily.

A true suporter of Lebonon suports the goverment in control, not the proxy for Iran and Syria in control.

Whether forum is pretty quite about the issue or not it doesn't justify what Israel is doing in Lebanon.
There is no justification for shooting hundreds of rockets a day into civilian areas. Hezbollah hides behind civilians, Israel doesn't.
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Keltoi
08-01-2006, 06:48 PM
I think this conflict in Lebanon is being covered the way it is because it could be the first stage of a wider war in the region. I agree that compared to the daily death and destruction in Iraq and Darfur, this conflict in Lebanon is somewhere down the ladder. I wish more attention was paid to the travesty in Darfur, and I blame the entire world for its silence on the matter.
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
08-01-2006, 06:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Maybe if Lebonon followed the very clear resolution put forth by the UN to disarm Hezbollah, or maybe if Hezbollah didn't escalate this conflict by raiding Israeli territory the 600 dead would still be living hapily.

A true suporter of Lebonon suports the goverment in control, not the proxy for Iran and Syria in control.
A true supporter, what would you know about who is a true supporter of Lebanon? are you in lebanon right now being bombed? who are you to say what is right and wrong for Lebanon! The conflict esculated when Israel took their f-16's, tanks and helicopters and began their devastation and killing spree. They could have got their soldiers back without all this.



format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
There is no justification for shooting hundreds of rockets a day into civilian areas.
Yeah thats pretty bad not half as bad as what Israel are doing but at least I admit it and I know it owuld stop once Israel will and they only started when Israel did.


Hezbollah hides behind civilians, Israel doesn't.
I find it extremely sad that you use an argument based on a video/evidence which was published by the same people who are bombing but yet you use this a suitable reason without any guilt or remorse.
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wilberhum
08-01-2006, 07:46 PM
A true supporter, what would you know about who is a true supporter of Lebanon? are you in lebanon right now being bombed? who are you to say what is right and wrong for Lebanon! The conflict esculated when Israel took their f-16's, tanks and helicopters and began their devastation and killing spree. They could have got their soldiers back without all this.
Are you in lebanon right now being bombed? So what gives you a right to have an openion?
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
08-01-2006, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Are you in lebanon right now being bombed? So what gives you a right to have an openion?


There is a diffrence between having an opinion and claiming you now what's best for someone when you don't even now what they are going through.
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wilberhum
08-01-2006, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DaNgErOuS MiNdS
There is a diffrence between having an opinion and claiming you now what's best for someone when you don't even now what they are going through.
You just don't want the rules that you place on others to apply to you.
It is that simple.
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Abdul Fattah
08-01-2006, 09:04 PM
of course he doesn't want the same rules to aply, since both obviously have a difrent position, it's only natural that a difrent rule aplies to both.
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lavikor201
08-01-2006, 09:11 PM
This is an Arab-Lebonese person. Joseph Farah supports Lebonon controling this homeland, not the proxy for the terror regimes of Syria and Iran. And especially not a bunch of Jew haters.
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
08-01-2006, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
You just don't want the rules that you place on others to apply to you.
It is that simple.

which rules have I placed on others?
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lavikor201
08-02-2006, 01:06 AM
The article was written by Arab-Lebonese doesn't make it right and the views of those who are being bombed right now in Lebanon are very diffrent.
You show respect to the opinions of Arabs who support Hezbollah and your agenda for Lebonon. When an Arab especially FROM Lebonon disagrees, and speaks about a better path for his country as not be a proxy for Iran, people go nuts and discredit him.

This man has a very valid point, of wanting Lebonon run by Lebonon, not the Hezbollah terror proxy representing Syria, and Iran.

If Hezbollah did not have heavily armed militants running around I am sure you would find many more in Lebonon who agree with him.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 01:57 AM
I would expect the Jews after going though the Holocaust to have some sympathy for human life.

I was awefully mistaken.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 01:58 AM
Israelis kill civilians and call them terrorists at the same time. Humanity has taken its toll.
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Keltoi
08-02-2006, 02:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
I would expect the Jews after going though the Holocaust to have some sympathy for human life.

I was awefully mistaken.
I'm sure there is plenty of sympathy for those who have died inside Lebanon. Israel also has sympathy for its own people who are constantly threatened by suicide attacks and missiles from Hezbollah. There is more than one story-line going on here.
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abdmez
08-02-2006, 02:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Israelis kill civilians and call them terrorists at the same time. Humanity has taken its toll.
If Hezbollah would just leave and stop commiting acts that only perpetuate the conflict than we could have a chance at peace.

Israel shows a lot more care when they fire then Hezbollah who killed a fellow Muslim girl!!!!!!!!!!!

What kind of sick animals are Hezbollah killing there very own! They should be ashamed and Allah will judge them harshly!!!!!!!!!!!
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 02:03 AM
I'm sure there is plenty of sympathy for those who have died inside Lebanon. Israel also has sympathy for its own people who are constantly threatened by suicide attacks and missiles from Hezbollah. There is more than one story-line going on here.
What is the use of expressing sympathy if they refuse to stop the bloodshed and disorder they've created in Lebanon?
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Keltoi
08-02-2006, 02:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
What is the use of expressing sympathy if they refuse to stop the bloodshed and disorder they've created in Lebanon?
If Hezbollah freed the hostage soldiers and stopped firing missiles, Israel would cease-fire as well.
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abdmez
08-02-2006, 02:04 AM
What is the use of expressing sympathy if they refuse to stop the bloodshed and disorder they've created in Lebanon?
The disorder was created when Hezbollah decided to attack Israeli troops.

Then they kill a fellow Muslim girl with a rocket attack!!! Allah have no mercy on Hezbollah and those who fire there rockets at there fellow Muslims and fellow people!
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 02:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
This is an Arab-Lebonese person. Joseph Farah supports Lebonon controling this homeland, not the proxy for the terror regimes of Syria and Iran. And especially not a bunch of Jew haters.

Thats a weak argument that hes arab lebonese does not mean he is right or he speaks in the best interest of the lebonese people

try again on that one
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 02:26 AM
The disorder was created when Hezbollah decided to attack Israeli troops.
The Israeli Jews broke UN resolutions literally thousands of times before Hezbollah even kidnapped the pathetic IDF scum. A prisoner exchange, which has be done several times before, could have solved the mess. Israel is to bleme for the unneccessary escalation.

Then they kill a fellow Muslim girl with a rocket attack!!! Allah have no mercy on Hezbollah and those who fire there rockets at there fellow Muslims and fellow people!
1.) Nasrallah apologized for Muslim casualties.
2.) Katyusha rockets are badly inaccurate.
3.) Hezbollah killed more IDF soldiers than civilians.

Points 2 and 3 does not apply to Israel.
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 02:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
I wonder why the Jews are hated so much?

After a terrorist attack if I said 'you wonder why muslims are hated so much' people would go nuts. But people will just shrug this off.

Tells us more about why the world hates the Jews. Tell us more about how you think it was a good thing that 6 Million Jews died and they were burnt and created into mountains of ash for being Jewish.

Please tell us more. Expose the your Anti-Semitic/Bigot personality for the whole world to see. You have already completly offended me with your post about Jews.

You still also negate the fact that this article was written by a reporter who is an Arab-Lebonese.


What does this have to do with the holocaust

honestly its soo like the people of Isreal to go and hide behind what happend in the holocaust to justify their barbaric and disgusting actions

Did the Torah not tell you that you shall not opress others for you have been the opressed in the lands of egypt?

why dont you understand

why are you soo blind

As a matter of fact before Zionism came into the picture the the jews and the muslims have lived peacefully for hundreds of years under islamic protection perhaps you should catch up a little on history before the holocaust ( as hard as they may be for you )

Im not surprised at all that you resort to acusing somebody of Anti-semitism

You need to understand that what Isreal is doing right now in Lebanon is a CRIME that lebonese man needs to understand that pointing out other major issues in the world is not going to Justify the actions of Isreal

if they wanted to disarm hezbollah they could have done so with little casualties but nobody wants to believe that fact
instead everybody wants to say ohh poor isreal got attacked by the big bad hezbollah
COMPARE DEATH TOLLS !!!!
this is so disgusting
Terrorists are working everday and they are going undetected for you terroism is anybody with a beard or anybody who professes Islam thats how ignorant you are
Terrorism is What Isreal is doing right now as you are laying on your big comfortable bed in Haifa and watching the civillians of Lebanon ( including defensless children) get decapitated and Burned into a crisp by laser aimed Missles
who are the cowards who fire rockets from a safe distance only to laugh about it over tea in their comfortable homes
Who are the cowards who cry about Adolf hitlers holocaust and in the same breath do that and its length to innocent lebanese people (only adding a pathetic excuse to justify their actions)
Who are the cowards who allow their children to write discriminatory messeges on rockets which they than rain down on women and children (The Nazis Told the story how it is No need to lie and make up fairy tales so that others can approve)
You need to open up your eyes and understand that Isreal is a terrorist Nation
one thing i will give them credit for is giving a well planed exuse (hezboullah hides behind civillians) so as to save face what i can tell you is that you are a misguided soul and that the isrealis will see the rath of Allah the best of planners when the time comes
You can believe what you want to believe but I will tell you to do this to read your own torah because your accusations are pathetic but what more can one expect from you who is soo brain washed

does the torah not tell you that Isreal is not to become a state that the jews shall not build a state for it will cause political corruption

you argument about the author of this article is a weak one
he speaks for nobody but himself and therefor has no buisness talking about the best intrests of the Lebonese peoples

Matter of factly it is people like him that are the reason for Allah (SWT) to be displeased with the muslims his spineless words wanting "liberation" and "lebanon to be lebanon" are the very reason Allah (SWT) sent punishment to the muslims Tourment to the muslims and it will remain that way restassured until the muslims become one and until they decide to go back to the way of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)

This is meant to be Allah ordained for the muslims to be attacked this way and victimized this way and Allah's Will can never be undone

May the creator of heavens and earth Guide you to the straight path of Islam and show you the truth

Ameen
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 02:55 AM
It needs to be understood that Hezbollah only controled a minority of the government of Lebanon


The facts need to be laid out before comments are made i wont name names im getting tired of this

May Allah ease the pain of the Lebanese victims of terrorism and May allah bring Us back to the true path and grant us victory over these Isreali/ AMerican tyrants
Ameen
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nimrod
08-02-2006, 03:04 AM
Quruxbadaan, not trying to nick pick, but it is my understanding that only a minority of the Lebanon government had/has any control over Hezbollah.

Thanks
Nimrod
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 03:19 AM
okay thank you Nimrod for the pointer

i was reading an article recently that mentioned the amount of seats hezbollah holds over the government of Lebanon perhaps i have misread in anycase thank you for that pointer

I will look for that article and post it for you to read...
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nimrod
08-02-2006, 03:41 AM
Quruxbadaan, you are most kind in your reply, Thanks, it is refreshing.

However I am not so sure you didn’t misunderstand my prior post.

My point was that Hezbollah not being control by the Lebanon’s duly elected government is the problem.

You seemed to indicate, from reading your posts, that you saw the main problem as Hezbollah’s lack of control over the government, as opposed to the lack of the governments ability to control Hezbollah.

Sorry if I miss-read your posts.

Thanks
Nimrod
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MRR
08-02-2006, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
honestly its soo like the people of Isreal to go and hide behind what happend in the holocaust to justify their barbaric and disgusting actions
The people of Israel? Nice racial slur, good one. All Israelis are barbarians that use past issues to justify their brutal actions.

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
As a matter of fact before Zionism came into the picture the the jews and the muslims have lived peacefully for hundreds of years under islamic protection perhaps you should catch up a little on history before the holocaust ( as hard as they may be for you )
History also records that in 1929 things got pretty nasty for the jews, as there were arab riots and they killed jews and forced them out. perhaps you should read a little more history (as hard as that ma....)

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Im not surprised at all that you resort to acusing somebody of Anti-semitism
Ameen
This is not at all different from people like yourself claiming that everyone else is anti-muslim. It is a little annoying to deal with, no?

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
if they wanted to disarm hezbollah they could have done so with little casualties but nobody wants to believe that fact
instead everybody wants to say ohh poor isreal got attacked by the big bad hezbollah
Unlikely. Hezbollah is well armed. Disarming them no matter how it is done would not be easy, large numbers of casualties should be expected.

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
COMPARE DEATH TOLLS !!!!
this is so disgusting
Comparing death tolls is irrelavent. The israeli army has superior training, equipment, and weapons. Why would they not use the advantage? It would be illogical to fight at a reduced capacity to fight "fair". Of course the death tolls are different.
Hezbollah is not innocent of killing. If they had the weapons that the IDF had, the civilian deaths would be very high in Israel as well.
Hezbollah is shooting rockets into Israel. They don't care where they land, as long as they kill. Soldiers, children, elderly..... whatever.
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MRR
The people of Israel? Nice racial slur, good one. All Israelis are barbarians that use past issues to justify their brutal actions.


History also records that in 1929 things got pretty nasty for the jews, as there were arab riots and they killed jews and forced them out. perhaps you should read a little more history (as hard as that ma....)



This is not at all different from people like yourself claiming that everyone else is anti-muslim. It is a little annoying to deal with, no?


Unlikely. Hezbollah is well armed. Disarming them no matter how it is done would not be easy, large numbers of casualties should be expected.


Comparing death tolls is irrelavent. The israeli army has superior training, equipment, and weapons. Why would they not use the advantage? It would be illogical to fight at a reduced capacity to fight "fair". Of course the death tolls are different.
Hezbollah is not innocent of killing. If they had the weapons that the IDF had, the civilian deaths would be very high in Israel as well.
Hezbollah is shooting rockets into Israel. They don't care where they land, as long as they kill. Soldiers, children, elderly..... whatever.

Listen my answer to you is gonna be very simple because i have very little time to argue with you

the bottom line is exxesive force is being used without proper reason
innocent lives are being taken and its being blamed on hezbollah

the fact of the matter is that according to Isreal the violent murder of hundreds of children is justifyable bby the kidnapping of two soldiers


im not gonna try to jam the truth down your throat because its Allah who guides
I have read about the riots in august of 1929 and you fail to mention that altho 133 jews were killed there were also 116 arabs who died in that struggle its been a long one between the arabs and the jews and you only mention one side of the tale as tho to fool somebody
try again


Isreal is being provided for by AMerica and i completly understand that in a war there will be colateral damadge however this is just barbaric and its blatantly deliberate and to me its laughable that you cant see that

like i said times of struggle for the muslims is predicted Allah is the best of planners

peace

p.s I like how you copy and paste my words to sound how you want them too
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 09:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by nimrod
Quruxbadaan, you are most kind in your reply, Thanks, it is refreshing.

However I am not so sure you didn’t misunderstand my prior post.

My point was that Hezbollah not being control by the Lebanon’s duly elected government is the problem.

You seemed to indicate, from reading your posts, that you saw the main problem as Hezbollah’s lack of control over the government, as opposed to the lack of the governments ability to control Hezbollah.

Sorry if I miss-read your posts.

Thanks
Nimrod
Nimrod, Thank you. perhaps you and i have misunderstood eachother

its either you have misunderstood my post or I have misunderstood yours either way its okay
let me try to explain what i mean

I dont mean that the main problem is hezbollahs lack of control Hezbollah is blamewortthy of ferociouse acts of murder and is aslo a problem in this struggle however i simply meant to point out that hezbollah only controls a minorty of the seats in the government (which was a democratically elected one)
this was said in response to a certain individual who was claiming otherwise on the thread (whoes name i wont point out)

I understand your point All i was mentioning was that hezbollah controls a minority of lebanons government ( not to say that this is a good thing or that this is a bad thing)

Thanks Nimrod for your reply Im still searching for that article as soon as i get my hands on it i will make sure to post it up

Im glad that you and I can speak to eachother without a tone of hostility i respect your views and Im glad that we can disagree with eachother respectfully

hey I will go back and read your post again to see if i misunderstood the first time

peace
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by DaNgErOuS MiNdS
I can't believe this guy is trying to justify all the deaths in Lebanon because there is more violence going on in the rest of the world.
I think the deaths of innocents are sad but can easily be justified, this article did a beautiful job doing just that.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I think the deaths of innocents are sad but can easily be justified, this article did a beautiful job doing just that.
Inncoent deaths cannot be justified, and the article's persuasiveness is unsatisfactory.
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lavikor201
08-02-2006, 09:56 PM
The artical was written by a lebonese arab!

But of course his opinion could matter less to you.

This is not about Lebonon or its people. This is about the destruction of Israel.
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 09:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Inncoent deaths cannot be justified, and the article's persuasiveness is unsatisfactory.
Yes, they can be justified. It's called war.
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 09:57 PM
I dont understand how somebody can say that the deaths of innocent lives is justifyable honestly

she wouldnt be singing the same tune if it were her family or her being victimized and raped inside out

HYPOCRITES im not gonna get into anything Im sick of this

I cant even believe this forum will allow these things to be posted!!! Wallahi it makes me sick to my stomach that people think this way
but its okay in the end because they are misguided and all we can do is make dua that Allah bless them with his infinite mercy to see the true light of Islam

and he is Al hakim and he is the best of Planners

Maa salaama
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 09:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

This is not about Lebonon or its people. This is about the destruction of Israel.
This is about the destruction of Israel and the failure the country of Lebanon to control Hezbollah! Inaction comes across as acceptance.
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
I dont understand how somebody can say that the deaths of innocent lives is justifyable honestly

she wouldnt be singing the same tune if it were her family or her being victimized and raped inside out

HYPOCRITES im not gonna get into anything Im sick of this

I cant even believe this forum will allow these things to be posted!!! Wallahi it makes me sick to my stomach that people think this way
but its okay in the end because they are misguided and all we can do is make dua that Allah bless them with his infinite mercy to see the true light of Islam

and he is Al hakim and he is the best of Planners

Maa salaama
Some of my people have been "vicimized and raped inside out", but over time my family moved on and allowed time to heal.

I think death of innocents is horrific. I also see war as a necessary evil.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Yes, they can be justified. It's called war.
A war is a confrontation between two or more armed forces.

Deaths of innocent civilains are inexcusable. That is exactly what the spokesman for Israel said about Qana.

Its pretty obvious that you're biased and see one group of people more valuable than another.
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Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:04 PM
WHAT THE HECK DOES IT MATTER IF HES LEBANESE

THAT MAKES HIM RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

FRANKLY I THINK HES A FOOL AND SHOULD KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT UNTIL HE KNOWS THE BURN OF HAVING HIS HOME DISTROYED INFRONT OF HIS VERY EYES

THe only destruction going on right now is that of LEBANON Hezboullah is powerless against ISREAL thats the fact

these rockets are not harming anybody 1 or 2 people max dead in Isreal and they cry and cry while secretly they are happy because this gives them a reason to go ahead and whipe out all of lebanon with bombs that have raciall slurs written all over them bby their terrorist children
Authubillahi minashaitani rageem
shayateen thats what Isreal is SHAITAAN!!!!!!
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Some of my people have been "vicimized and raped inside out", but over time my family moved on and allowed time to heal.
You dont speak for humanity in general.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
A war is a confrontation between two or more armed forces.

Deaths of innocent civilains are inexcusable. That is exactly what the spokesman for Israel said about Qana.

Its pretty obvious that you're biased and see one group of people more valuable than another.
COULDNT AGREE MORE

COULDNT AGREE MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
A war is a confrontation between two or more armed forces.

Deaths of innocent civilains are inexcusable. That is exactly what the spokesman for Israel said about Qana.

Its pretty obvious that you're biased and see one group of people more valuable than another.
Death of innocents during war are unavoidable, so logically they are excusable. Of course they are always saddeninig.

I don't see one group of people more valuable than the others. I know few jews, and half of my family are arab. Why would I value jews over arabs?
Reply

Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:11 PM
If there are many more dead children in a conflict than armed men, there is something fundamentally wrong, not only with how the armed men behave and where they hide, but also with the way the response is being conducted.
---Jan Egeland.
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
You dont speak for humanity in general.
I think that most humans would agree with me on the facts that:
1. Death of innocents is sad
2. War without the death of innocents is impossible

That's my stance. I don't love to see people dead or injured. I just accept it as a reality of war. Hope that clarifies it for you.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Some of my people have been "vicimized and raped inside out", but over time my family moved on and allowed time to heal.
Im sure not in the way these Lebanese people are being victimized because otherwise there would be no healing
you cant heal the dead

so unless you know what it feels like to have your life taken unjustly or to watch your mothers life or your childrens lives being taken unjustly infront of you than there is no comparison between what i mention and what you say you have seen or been thru

The bottom line is there is no justification for killing these people war has nothing to do with the murder or civillians nothing at all to do with that

Todays weapons are very sophisticated and can be used in a way to avoid casualties im not saying they wont exist but they will be minimized and that is not happening
the amount of cassualiies in this war are catostrophic and much too devastating to be called Colateral damage its clearly deliberate

May allah bring swift victory to the suffering for he is the one who ordains and he is the one who without his will nothing is possible

Ameen
Reply

Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Death of innocents during war are unavoidable, so logically they are excusable. Of course they are always saddeninig.
Compare the Civilian:Soldier casualty ratio in Lebanon to that of other major wars. Then use your own logic.

format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I don't see one group of people more valuable than the others. I know few jews, and half of my family are arab. Why would I value jews over arabs?
Only you can answer that question to yourself.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:17 PM
THe casualties in this "WAR" are too catostrophic to be called or labeld Colateral Damage (shrugged off)
THERE IS NO JUSTIFYING THE ACTIONS OF ISREAL

Altho i may not see it during my life time

Allah promises victory to those who desearv it (the muslims) and allah's promise is truth
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Im sure not in the way these Lebanese people are being victimized because otherwise there would be no healing
you cant heal the dead

so unless you know what it feels like to have your life taken unjustly or to watch your mothers life or your childrens lives being taken unjustly infront of you than there is no comparison between what i mention and what you say you have seen or been thru

The bottom line is there is no justification for killing these people war has nothing to do with the murder or civillians nothing at all to do with that

Ameen
I'm lucky enough to not have personally witnessed war. Some of my ancestors were indigenous people and I'm witness to the fact that time does heal, if given the opportunity.

Every male member of my family has experienced the horrors of war. Again, time heals, and life goes on.

So, know I personally can't relate to war but how many of us on this forum actually can? But what we can acknowledge is the fact that people who have been through the tragedy of war have two options: 1. heal and move one 2. dwell on the negatives and let the anger fester

Hope that helps!:)
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Compare the Civilian:Soldier casualty ratio in Lebanon to that of other major wars. Then use your own logic.



Only you can answer that question to yourself.
All deaths are equal to me. It just seems that Israel is winning the war. Nothing more, nothing less.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I'm lucky enough to not have personally witnessed war. Some of my ancestors were indigenous people and I'm witness to the fact that time does heal, if given the opportunity.

Every male member of my family has experienced the horrors of war. Again, time heals, and life goes on.

So, know I personally can't relate to war but how many of us on this forum actually can? But what we can acknowledge is the fact that people who have been through the tragedy of war have two options: 1. heal and move one 2. dwell on the negatives and let the anger fester

Hope that helps!:)

yes you probably missunderstood what im saying

sad that your family has experienced it sad that my family has experienced it

the fact is that its sad either way and cant be JUSTIFYED thats my point THERE IS NO JUSTIFYING THE INNOCENT LIVES OF PEOPLE BEING TAKEN
thats all im saying and since neither of us have experienced war on personal level than how can it be said that it is justifiable

we cant say that ........its wrong to say that it is okay to kill innocent lives that makes it cold blooded murder not war
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
All deaths are equal to me. It just seems that Israel is winning the war. Nothing more, nothing less.
LOL, how in the world is Israel "winning?"

I am seeing something very similar to past confronation between Hezbollah and Israel.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:28 PM
wallahi Im finished with this thread

it should be trashed
and the mods should start making sure that remarks like

"killing innocent lives is justifyable"
arent made

thats my oppinion altho its probably not going to be seen to

Maa salaama
Reply

iraqi
08-02-2006, 10:30 PM
blame hizbollah for the deaths of the innocent civialians in lebanon, hate to see so many people die but hizbollah started it.
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
yes you probably missunderstood what im saying
its wrong to say that it is okay to kill innocent lives that makes it cold blooded murder not war
I disagree. In the context of war it is not murder. Is it sad? yes. Is it murder? no.
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searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
LOL, how in the world is Israel "winning?"

I am seeing something very similar to past confronation between Hezbollah and Israel.
Through the number of deaths, the amount of Lebanese destruction.

I'm not cheering and applauding. It doesn't bring me joy. Quite the opposite.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Through the number of deaths, the amount of Lebanese destruction.
Any person with common sense would know that goes to Hezbollah's advantage.

Israel escalated this war for a cause, a cause which now seems impossible to achieve.

Even Israel's PM said that there's no gurantee that Hezbollah will be "disarmed."

Why Israel is losing
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I disagree. In the context of war it is not murder. Is it sad? yes. Is it murder? no.
Deliberate killing of civilian is murder, regardless of the situation.

Your ignorant comments never ceases to amaze me.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 10:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by iraqi
blame hizbollah for the deaths of the innocent civialians in lebanon, hate to see so many people die but hizbollah started it.
LOL, did Hezbollah kill the civilians. It has been proven that Hezbollah doesnt hide among "civilians." How do you think they shot 200 rockets today?
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Deliberate killing of civilian is murder, regardless of the situation.

Your ignorant comments never ceases to amaze me.
Thanks, I feel honored.:statisfie
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
I disagree. In the context of war it is not murder. Is it sad? yes. Is it murder? no.
your mistaken

war involves armed parties

killing innocents deliberately is not war


perhaps to you it is

Civillian deaths is not intended to be the MAIN AIM of war
Reply

iraqi
08-02-2006, 10:49 PM
you havent understood me clearly, hizbollah had kidnapped 2 soliders, of course it will make a country like israel mad
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
your mistaken

war involves armed parties

Israel and Hezbollah are both armed.

killing innocents deliberately is not war

It sure sends a message.


perhaps to you it is



Civillian deaths is not intended to be the MAIN AIM of war

Tell me, what is the main aim of war in your opinion?
thanks
Reply

lavikor201
08-02-2006, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Deliberate killing of civilian is murder, regardless of the situation.

Your ignorant comments never ceases to amaze me.
The Hezbollah are MURDURERS!
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:56 PM
read this please serching....

the official definition of war

WAR- is a conflict involving the organized use of weapons and physical force by STATES or other large-scale groups.(civillians are not large scale groups who hold power enough to perpetrate these actions) Warring parties usually hold territory, which they can win or lose; and each has a leading person or organization which can surrender, or collapse, thus ending the war.

Thats the official deffintion of war according to the Oxford dictionairy

Does not match up with what your calling war

sorry

Maa salaama
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 10:59 PM
whats in brakets is what I add to make my point clear the definition itself is what is not put in brackets

Civillians ARE innocent
and whatever messege it sends does not JUSTIFY their MURDER!!!

thats the main point im trying to make that there is no JUSTIFICATION
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 10:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
read this please serching....

the official definition of war

WAR- is a conflict involving the organized use of weapons and physical force by STATES or other large-scale groups.(civillians are not large scale groups who hold power enough to perpetrate these actions) Warring parties usually hold territory, which they can win or lose; and each has a leading person or organization which can surrender, or collapse, thus ending the war.

Thats the official deffintion of war according to the Oxford dictionairy

Does not match up with what your calling war

sorry

Maa salaama
Perhaps the definition of war needs to be revised since we're dealing with the 21st century and terrorism.

Perhaps the incident in Lebanon isn't far from the Oxford definition. :?
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-02-2006, 11:00 PM
ISREAL VS HEZBOLLAH
would be war if the many lives far too many lives of innocent by standers werent involved
This means that this is not war but ASSULT and its being called war to justify it
Reply

searchingsoul
08-02-2006, 11:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
ISREAL VS HEZBOLLAH
would be war if the many lives far too many lives of innocent by standers werent involved
This means that this is not war but ASSULT and its being called war to justify it

How do you think wars in the past have been fought?
Reply

MRR
08-02-2006, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
the bottom line is exxesive force is being used without proper reason
innocent lives are being taken and its being blamed on hezbollah
In war, what is excessive force? It is logical to defeat your enemy as quickly and decisively as possible.
If you are a pro fighter, should you not hit as hard in a championship bout because you know that you are stronger than your opponent? Or should you knock him out as quick as you can?

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
the fact of the matter is that according to Isreal the violent murder of hundreds of children is justifyable bby the kidnapping of two soldiers
It's not about two soldiers anymore. Listen to the words of the Israeli leaders. They are talking about no peace until the removal of Hezbollah. I am sure they would continue the push on Hezbollah now even if they did give back the soldiers. And they should. The continued threat must end.

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
I have read about the riots in august of 1929 and you fail to mention that altho 133 jews were killed there were also 116 arabs who died in that struggle its been a long one between the arabs and the jews and you only mention one side of the tale as tho to fool somebody
try again
OK, I will try again. Although there is no need to fool anyone, history is recorded. Just read. On August 22, 1929, Haj Amin al-Husseini Mufti of Jerusalem, sparked the racial arab riots by claiming that the jews were endangering the islamic holy sites, and issuing the call to "slaughter the jews". The next day the riots began. At the end, the surviving jews were sent to Jerusalem and no jews lived in Hebron until it was liberated in 1967.

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Isreal is being provided for by AMerica and i completly understand that in a war there will be colateral damadge however this is just barbaric and its blatantly deliberate and to me its laughable that you cant see that
War is barbaric. Hezbollah is barbaric as well. And of course it is deliberate, that is how they get hezbollah. Deliberately.
and to me its laughable that you cant see that
And I think it's laughable that you would say this. It is laughable because I did not state in my post that I could not see that it was barbaric or deliberate. You are claiming that I said something that I did not. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
p.s I like how you copy and paste my words to sound how you want them too
They are your words, unaltered, as you said them.
Reply

Zionazi_Dissent
08-02-2006, 11:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
The Hezbollah are MURDURERS!
If Hezbollah are murderers, then what are the IDF soldiers?

Clearly they beat Hezbollah by a wide margin in terms of killings in general :D
Reply

MRR
08-02-2006, 11:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
I am seeing something very similar to past confronation between Hezbollah and Israel.
Yes, me too. Hezbollah provoking a fight, sending rockets from civilian areas, and hiding among civilians. It is the same.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Any person with common sense would know that goes to Hezbollah's advantage.
I agree with this.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
Deliberate killing of civilian is murder, regardless of the situation.
Israel is not targeting civilians. It does seem they are not making a great effort to avoid them. But there is no advantage to targeting civilians. Except to undermine support for hezbollah. But Israel knows that this only creates more supporters.

Hezbollah is no better, they shoot rockets at civilian cities. What military objective does this serve? Well, I supose it can unnerve the population so that public support for the war is reduced. The truth is though, Hezbollah views the entire Israeli/jewish population as the enemy.

format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
LOL, did Hezbollah kill the civilians. It has been proven that Hezbollah doesnt hide among "civilians." How do you think they shot 200 rockets today?
What proof? Link?
They shot 200 rockets from private residences, backyards,streets, etc.
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 01:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zionazi_Dissent
If Hezbollah are murderers, then what are the IDF soldiers?

Soldiers

Clearly they beat Hezbollah by a wide margin in terms of killings in general :D

Yes, they seem more effective.
Death during war isn't murder.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 02:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Death during war isn't murder.

please searching stop making these remarks

because you know that your wrong

the murder of innocent civillians in a war is murder

Im sorry read the definition i posted for you and than stop saying such ignorant things

you really dont seem to understand that sometimes your ignorant rambling is offensive
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 02:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
please searching stop making these remarks

because you know that your wrong

the murder of innocent civillians in a war is murder

Im sorry read the definition i posted for you and than stop saying such ignorant things

you really dont seem to understand that sometimes your ignorant rambling is offensive

I'm sorry if you are offended by my words. I still disagree with you.

Death during war isn't murder.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 02:40 AM
plus searching.......this occupation of Lebanon by Isreal has not been declared war yet there for it is not officially a war

And still many INNOCENT CIVILLIAN LIVES ARE BEING TAKEN

this is acceptable to you?????????

thats pathetic
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-03-2006, 02:41 AM
death to other soldiers is not murder its part of the basics of war, death to civilians is murder especially when they can do less of it but choose to hit civilian areas which has been done in all wars and dont forget about the civilians targeted for no reason, should i state recent situations in Iraq or do i have to bring it back to Vietname when a whole village was slaugtered and they were charged with murder, if it was your child or mother searchingsoul u would have a totally different view, i think some of us are too comfy and say things we have no place saying.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 02:42 AM
no its offensive that people like you speak out of ignorants

you can disagree with me

but your WRONG and the funny thing is that you know it yourself

death during war is not murder

however the deliberate death of innocent civillians during war is murder
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-03-2006, 02:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
no its offensive that people like you speak out of ignorants

you can disagree with me

but your WRONG and the funny thing is that you know it yourself

death during war is not murder

however the deliberate death of innocent civillians during war is murder
u speaking to me? i basically said what u said with examples :? :?
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 02:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
death to other soldiers is not murder its part of the basics of war, death to civilians is murder especially when they can do less of it but choose to hit civilian areas which has been done in all wars and dont forget about the civilians targeted for no reason, should i state recent situations in Iraq or do i have to bring it back to Vietname when a whole village was slaugtered and they were charged with murder, if it was your child or mother searchingsoul u would have a totally different view, i think some of us are too comfy and say things we have no place saying.
Thats exactly right

i keep saying these things but when your ignorant your ignorant

and sister do you believe that i even went to the extend of defining some of these words that shes using for her to see that she is mistaken gravely and still she chooses to be blind about it

what im still struggling with is why the mods let people make such ignorant statements that they clearly dont understand themselfs

im still struggling with that one

once again its allah who guides and may he guide us all AMEEN
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 02:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
death to other soldiers is not murder its part of the basics of war, death to civilians is murder especially when they can do less of it but choose to hit civilian areas which has been done in all wars and dont forget about the civilians targeted for no reason, should i state recent situations in Iraq or do i have to bring it back to Vietname when a whole village was slaugtered and they were charged with murder, if it was your child or mother searchingsoul u would have a totally different view, i think some of us are too comfy and say things we have no place saying.
I'm not denying that the affected Lebanese people have a right to hold a different view. But I'm speaking in terms of war. You are correct that the death of innocents happen in each war. It's a terrible thing. But it is a reality of war.
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 02:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
no its offensive that people like you speak out of ignorants

you can disagree with me

but your WRONG and the funny thing is that you know it yourself

death during war is not murder

however the deliberate death of innocent civillians during war is murder
When waging war each side expects civilian casualties.
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 02:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Thats exactly right

i keep saying these things but when your ignorant your ignorant

and sister do you believe that i even went to the extend of defining some of these words that shes using for her to see that she is mistaken gravely and still she chooses to be blind about it

what im still struggling with is why the mods let people make such ignorant statements that they clearly dont understand themselfs

im still struggling with that one

once again its allah who guides and may he guide us all AMEEN
Don't fret over it too much. Everyone in this world will not agree with you.
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-03-2006, 02:54 AM
ok you really dont get it, purposely murdering civilians or not taking careful precautions to avoid as many civilan casualties in a war is murder, its even under the Geneva convetions, why do you think those americans who did the haditha thing are being tried and the same went for many disgusting cases in Vietnam, are you that stubborn or you just dont comprehend?
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 02:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
ok you really dont get it, purposely murdering civilians or not taking careful precautions to avoid as many civilan casualties in a war is murder, its even under the Geneva convetions, why do you think those americans who did the haditha thing are being tried and the same went for many disgusting cases in Vietnam, are you that stubborn or you just dont comprehend?

I definetly comprehend. Stubborn? Perhaps. I tend to think that I'm more realistic.
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-03-2006, 02:57 AM
yea well say that to the fellows in jail from this war and previous for unjustly killing civilians for the hell of it, again you truely are stubborn. Its murder when directed at civilians buttom line, go read some military documents why dont u, in fact i did, my dad was a reservist for 25 yrs
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 03:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Crystal4Peace
yea well say that to the fellows in jail from this war and previous for unjustly killing civilians for the hell of it, again you truely are stubborn. Its murder when directed at civilians buttom line, go read some military documents why dont u, in fact i did, my dad was a reservist for 25 yrs
Yes, my dad was career military as well. I'm sure he killed many innocents. My husband was in the military. I'm sure he killed many innocents. Guess what, it is a sad part of war. I don't feel that it's realistic to subscribe to a sterilzed view of war.

Do I support the death of innocents? No. Do I support war? Absolutely not. Is war a necessary evil? Yes. Does war abide by clearly drawn rules? Nope. Never has and never will.
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-03-2006, 03:04 AM
anyway i rest my case, your still stubborn, thats all folks
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 03:08 AM
no i was speaking to soulsearching on that one not you i know you and I agree
Alhumdulillah
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 03:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by searchingsoul
Don't fret over it too much. Everyone in this world will not agree with you.
Im not asking for you to agree with me im simply stating that you are ignorant of what you speak
Reply

Keltoi
08-03-2006, 03:10 AM
Here is my take. If a soldier from any army kills a civilian who hasn't shown themselves to be a threat, and who is taking no active role in violence against that army, then that is indeed murder. There have been many cases of this in history, and these incidents are murder.
Then you have large conventional wars where both sides are bombing the heck out of capitals and military and civilian infrastructure, such as was the case in WWII. In these instances it is impossible to fully control the extent of civilian casualties, unless you firebomb an entire city, as in Dresden. If you really want to be honest about it, war itself is murder, sanctioned and sometimes unavoidable, but still murder. That is the point of war, to kill and not be killed.
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 03:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
Im not asking for you to agree with me im simply stating that you are ignorant of what you speak
What makes another person ignorant, when you feel that you are not?:?
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 03:13 AM
searching enough arguing when you get educated and are ready to discuss things matter of factly come back to me

in the mean time you take your twisted view of reality to bed at night

war is war

and casualties will be expected when they become murder is when they are done deliberatly

im sorry that you dont agree thats what makes you ignorant and me not ignorant

peace
Reply

Looking4Peace
08-03-2006, 03:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Here is my take. If a soldier from any army kills a civilian who hasn't shown themselves to be a threat, and who is taking no active role in violence against that army, then that is indeed murder. There have been many cases of this in history, and these incidents are murder.
Then you have large conventional wars where both sides are bombing the heck out of capitals and military and civilian infrastructure, such as was the case in WWII. In these instances it is impossible to fully control the extent of civilian casualties, unless you firebomb an entire city, as in Dresden. If you really want to be honest about it, war itself is murder, sanctioned and sometimes unavoidable, but still murder. That is the point of war, to kill and not be killed.


at least you have a more rational and realistic view on it then others:giggling: i wont say any names
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 03:14 AM
[S] If you really want to be honest about it, war itself is murder, sanctioned and sometimes unavoidable, but still murder. That is the point of war, to kill and not be killed.[/S]

This is a persuasive argument. Perhaps war is murder? Forgivable murder? Justified murder? See, my views aren't set in stone.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 03:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Here is my take. If a soldier from any army kills a civilian who hasn't shown themselves to be a threat, and who is taking no active role in violence against that army, then that is indeed murder. There have been many cases of this in history, and these incidents are murder.
Then you have large conventional wars where both sides are bombing the heck out of capitals and military and civilian infrastructure, such as was the case in WWII. In these instances it is impossible to fully control the extent of civilian casualties, unless you firebomb an entire city, as in Dresden. If you really want to be honest about it, war itself is murder, sanctioned and sometimes unavoidable, but still murder. That is the point of war, to kill and not be killed.

you see what your saying i can agree a little more with
Reply

searchingsoul
08-03-2006, 03:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Quruxbadaan
searching enough arguing when you get educated and are ready to discuss things matter of factly come back to me

in the mean time you take your twisted view of reality to bed at night

war is war

and casualties will be expected when they become murder is when they are done deliberatly

im sorry that you dont agree thats what makes you ignorant and me not ignorant

peace
Interesting view on conflict.
Reply

Quruxbadaan
08-03-2006, 03:18 AM
to me murder is wrong there is no such thing as forgivable murder and there is no such thing as justifyable murder

wallahi wallahi i swear by allah that some members here who claim to have a more realistic view of things would be singing a completly differnt tune if this were happening directly to them

thats a fact but here they are rambling about how it is okay to kill people who have nothing to with the war and who arent armed

in anycase murder is murder and murderers should be brought to justice which they will be at the hands of ALLAh
and he is the best of planners
Reply

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