Greetings to you
Maybe this wouldn't be the case had christians not constantly changed the words of god and contaminated with their own limited intelect. Why is it that christians claim it is the word of God who they agree is more superior in every way to anything in existence yet throw some verses or chapters of the bible and exchange it for their own comments. Why do they do this?
It is true that Christians, as well as all mankind of any faith,have their own limited intelect. God wants us to understand what He teaches in His Word (the Bible), but without the God-given ability to reason, and comment on Scripture we would not understand the teaching.
A very simple example of what I mean is as follows.
In Isaiah 55:12, it is written "...the mountains and the hills shall break forth into singing before you, and all the trees of the fields shall clap their hands"
God never wanted us to take this literally, for to do so we would have to beleive that trees have hands. Therefore, God expects us to use our own reasoning and comments to understand the truth that He is saying, and by doing so, we understand this verse to mean "a coming time of such peace and joy, that the whole of creation exists in harmony together. A literal time of Paradise on earth" (my words).
I do not consider myself to be some great Bible scholar, but neither do I beleive that by using my own comments, I have "contaminated" Gods Truth with my "limited intelect"
This is a very basic example of why we use Bible verses, but put them into our own words at times. It does not take away the Truth, but opens up Truths teachings.
Was Jacob preserved? he died didn't he? and if it means we will be preserved spritually (our souls) then is he implying that you have to see God to have your souls preserved? it doesn't make sense.
Yes, Jacobs life was preserved at that time. Also, yes,the time came when Jacob was to die. My original point was that Jacob had seen a Man, who was the Angel of the LORD, and Jacob knew that he had actually seen God.
But, we also beleive that through his faith in God, Jacobs soul was preserved, although his physical body returned to the dust.
Your confusing me here, is he the son or God? which one please choose, it can't be both as it defies all reason.
I do understand your comment that it defies all reason. Again, to try and piut it simply.
My father is fully human.As a child I lived under his authority and In a sense I could say that my father is a greater man than myself. But in my humanity I am as FULLY HUMAN as my father.
We beleive that God is a Father, and He has a Son. By using the above reasoning (although poor), the Son of the Father is as FULLY GOD as His Father is.
I am as fully human as my father.We are both Human. Jesus is as fully God as His Father. They are BOTH God, but they are NOT two Gods
Albee, I have told of one of the reason why trinity is false, and have given you evidence from the Bible, but now you are saying the bible conradicts itself by saying it also says Jesus is God. So the bible as it stands today is only there to confuse the christians with no clear answer is that what you are saying?
I once disbelived the Trinity doctrine. And as no man could prove it to me then, I can not prove it to you now. I also used to think that the Bible contradicted itself. I no longer think that. I used to think that the Bible was confusing, and that Christians had no clear answers.
Now, I realise that I was happy to think that the Bible contradicted itself, for that gave me some justification for my unbeleif in Christ.
I now realise that it was myself who was confused with no clear answers. My own pride and arrogance. My own inner resentment of being told i needed Gods forgiveness. My own mockery of Jesus Christ, each time I abused His name.
All these things kept me in darkness, and it was only as I gradually accepted that I was wrong that the Truth of Scripture started to become clear (or maybe it was the other way round).
The Trinity concept is still a mystery to me, but I have still come to beleive it, as the Truth in the Bible has been made clearer to me. It is something that we Christians beleive to be true, but it remains beyond our human comprehension.
Here is another reason why I refuse trinity provided from the Bible itself:
Matthew 27: 46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani! My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Do you really believe he would call to himself while he was being prosecuted? Of course not, he was calling God. Secondly it also shows that Jesus under the context was Unwilling to go on the cross, are you saying that God is so unmerciful and unjust that he would punish and torture he beloved massenger for the sins of mankind?
Jesus was calling upon His Father. This has to be true, because Jesus always refferred to His Father as being God. But by making this claim, and using the illustration that I have previously used, Jesus, the Son of God was as fully God as His Father is. Do not be mistaken that we beleive this was one God calling upon another God. It was the Son calling upon His Father. And Jesus Himself claimed that He and the Father were ONE. And that the Father dwelt in the Son, and the Son dwelt in the Father.
The work done on the Cross was a Sacred Work The Son was fulfilling the Fathers will. It was the Son who gave His life as a ransom for many. Because He had come from Heaven and taken the form of a man, it was in the context of being a Man, that Jesus stuggled to accept that He was going to be tortured and crucified. But as the Son of the Father, He was also intent upon doing His Fathers will.
The fact that Jesus cried out " Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani!" goes beyond our understanding, for in this Sacred Moment in history, in a way we do not grasp, the Father withdrew His Prescence from His Son. For the only time in Eternity the Son was completely alone,and facing the jaws of death.
Is there any wonder He called out these words with a loud voice? This was His experience of complete and utter solitude and desertion. This is why our Bible teaches that God understands every human experience, and that Jesus has been tempted in every possible way that anyone of us can be tempted.
In answer to the part highlighted in red:
Nowhere does the Bible teach that God punished His Messenger.What it does teach is that it was men who claimed to beleive in the Almighty, but did not beleive that Jesus was who He said He was that called for Him to be punished and crucified.
I wonder if you or I (who did not once beleive that Jesus is the Christ) would have also called for His crucifixion had we been living in those days?
For the Bible gives a bigger picture. It is a disturbing one, for it shows that every one of us is and was partly responsible for the death of Jesus.
The men that had held Jesus captive, blinfolded Him, started hitting Him aroound the face, and then taunted Him by asking " if you are the Christ, then prophecy and tell us which one of us has smote (hit) you."
Jesus did not answer them. But He didnt have to, because many years previuos isaiah had already prophecied that "He was wounded for our transgressions and He was bruised for our iniquities"
We were the reason Jesus was beaten and put to death, not just those who carried out the actual act.
Please do not put words into my mouth, by inferring that I suggest God is unmerciful and unjust.
It is because God is pure in His justice, that on the Day of Judgement His Justice will sentence all men. He has declared His hatred for sin. He has decalred that all sinners will be punished . As we have all sinned, Christian and Muslim alike, we will all come under Divine Justice. There is no escape (or is there?) The only JUST JUDGE will not let some off at the expense of others (for that would be unjust). We can do nothing in this life to "earn" any rights to be let off.
But it is because God is All- Merciful that He has implemented a Way for us to escape His Divine Justice. His own Son died for our sins, and if we beleive this and ask Gods forgiveness He will IMMEDIATELY forgive us. Because He is Just, He will not judge us for the things that His Son has already given His life for.
This is what people cannot grasp. That because God is so merciful, and loves us so much, He gave His Son to die for our sins, so that He would NOT have to Judge us. Our sins have already been dealt with because Jesus gave up His life and shed His own Blood.
This is Gods way of letting us escape from the Judgement that lies ahead.
Albee