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abdmez
08-03-2006, 03:28 PM
Brothers and Sisters.

I live in Jerusalem. I want to make it clear, that I think my childrens futures would be better of under Israeli control. My kids go to very good schools, they learn a lot, because of Israel they will be able to go to college for FREE. Just because we are Muslims and a minority Israel is going to give my kids a FREE COLLEGE. I was very happy at recieving this news.

I have a cousin who was killed in the Gaza Strip! Not by an Israeli, but by his own countrymen. By a Hamas supporter. Hamas and Fatah have spent all of the money that should go to building schools and hospitals to buying bullets. They killed innocent in Gaza, and are out fo control with there hunger for power against eachother. The innocent are the ones who paid the price. My cousin paid the price.

I look at the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank, and I look at the instabability, and how even after Palestine is a country and my people get a country of there own, Fatah and Hamas will continue fighting, and the people who want peace for there children like me will be lost in the cross fire.

I would just like to let you know that I am a Muslim who lives under Israeli control and I am not opressed.

Hate me because I do not go along with your agenda, but I could not care. Call me up when its your kids futures on the line, and call me up when your not just watching this whole conflict from your TV set in England.

When the bullets are flying and they could actually hit YOU. Your opinion changes into a voice for peace.

Regards,

Abdul
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Keltoi
08-03-2006, 03:31 PM
Most parents do want their children to live in peace. Hopefully your children will see the day that the Holy Land is actually peaceful.
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Dahir
08-03-2006, 03:34 PM
I would just like to let you know that I am a Muslim who lives under Israeli control and I am not opressed.
Only if the warmongers and Hamas-sympathizers knew that!

I know Israel is a good state, its just the few bloodthirsty warmongers who say otherwise and who side with Hezbollah and Hamas.

I pray for you and your family and I hope that one day Palestinians realize that Israel is there to help not occupy!

-Dahir! Supporter of a united and peaceful Israel.
Reply

Dawud_uk
08-03-2006, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by abdmez
Brothers and Sisters.

I live in Jerusalem. I want to make it clear, that I think my childrens futures would be better of under Israeli control. My kids go to very good schools, they learn a lot, because of Israel they will be able to go to college for FREE. Just because we are Muslims and a minority Israel is going to give my kids a FREE COLLEGE. I was very happy at recieving this news.

I look at the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank, and I look at the instabability, and how even after Palestine is a country and my people get a country of there own, Fatah and Hamas will continue fighting, and the people who want peace for there children like me will be lost in the cross fire.

I would just like to let you know that I am a Muslim who lives under Israeli control and I am not opressed.

Hate me because I do not go along with your agenda, but I could not care. Call me up when its your kids futures on the line, and call me up when your not just watching this whole conflict from your TV set in England.

When the bullets are flying and they could actually hit YOU. Your opinion changes into a voice for peace.

Regards,

Abdul

assalaamu alaykum,

i would urge you to look at the works of classical scholars like ibn taymiyyah who made the ruling that the one who lived in and helped the occupation of muslim land by even living there and paying their taxes, even if he professed islam was still a valid target himself for this.

helping the kuffar in their occupation of muslim lands is kufr and may Allah give you guidence because your words in not repented from could land you in the hellfire.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
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Keltoi
08-03-2006, 03:37 PM
As usual, some like to believe you can go to Hell for not agreeing with them.
Reply

Skillganon
08-03-2006, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by abdmez
Brothers and Sisters.

I live in Jerusalem. I want to make it clear, that I think my childrens futures would be better of under Israeli control. My kids go to very good schools, they learn a lot, because of Israel they will be able to go to college for FREE. Just because we are Muslims and a minority Israel is going to give my kids a FREE COLLEGE. I was very happy at recieving this news.

I look at the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank, and I look at the instabability, and how even after Palestine is a country and my people get a country of there own, Fatah and Hamas will continue fighting, and the people who want peace for there children like me will be lost in the cross fire.

I would just like to let you know that I am a Muslim who lives under Israeli control and I am not opressed.

Hate me because I do not go along with your agenda, but I could not care. Call me up when its your kids futures on the line, and call me up when your not just watching this whole conflict from your TV set in England.

When the bullets are flying and they could actually hit YOU. Your opinion changes into a voice for peace.

Regards,

Abdul
You see that is the problem, it's all about me! me! me!. Aslong as it's about somone else kids or someones else livelihood that got bulldozered their parent beaten up in front of the eyes, get bombed and oppressed that it's all ok. It's I don't mind living under the very goverment or state who is committing crimes against others aslong as they don't commit it against me, and I am compliance towards them.
Reply

abdmez
08-03-2006, 03:41 PM
i would urge you to look at the works of classical scholars like ibn taymiyyah who made the ruling that the one who lived in and helped the occupation of muslim land by even living there and paying their taxes, even if he professed islam was still a valid target himself for this.
I'm sure it is a lot easier to critisize me from "Sheffield, UK"... after all if there is war in the region, who cares? You don't, your families lives aren't in danger.

Don't try to scare me into anything. Islam is a religion of tolerance and peace.

helping the kuffar in their occupation of muslim lands is kufr and may Allah give you guidence because your words in not repented from could land you in the hellfire.
Allah give you guidance. For it seems you can never be at peace until you see the death of your enemies, and this is a very bad trait to have.

You see that is the problem, it's all about me! me! me!. Aslong as it's about somone else kids or someones else livelihood that got bulldozered their parent beaten up in front of the eyes, get bombed and oppressed that it's all ok. It's I don't mind living under the very goverment or state who is committing crimes against others aslong as they don't commit it against me, and I am compliance towards them.
It isn't just about me. It's about the welfare of my people. Not the agenda of Iran and Syria and YOUR selfish agenda which want the destruction of Israel.

What is selfish is teaching a kid in the Gaza Strip that the only way he will get to heaven and make something of his life is to be a martyr, or suicide bomber.

There are many ways to declare Jihad, and the word Jihad itself has been hijacked by war loving people.
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Woodrow
08-03-2006, 04:00 PM
There are many ways to declare Jihad, and the word Jihad itself has been hijacked by war loving people.
Very true words.


Sadly people that have never experienced war, tend to glorify it. They tend to see it as a field of honor and loyalty to their beliefs. No matter what the old John Wayne movies say. There is no honor in war. People caught up in bloody conflict, take on the role of savages and their true belifs become over shadowed by the violence of the moment. War fare becames a very dangerous form of lust to many who have never tasted actual combat. It becomes much easier to kill in war then it is to step out and speak for the killing to stop.

One blessing I see of people that call out for war, is it is evident that they have never had to live in it. That is a good indication, that the efforts for peace, where they live, have been successfull.
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ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 04:01 PM
Very Nice post Abdul.
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Skillganon
08-03-2006, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by abdmez
I'm sure it is a lot easier to critisize me from "Sheffield, UK"... after all if there is war in the region, who cares? You don't, your families lives aren't in danger.

Don't try to scare me into anything. Islam is a religion of tolerance and peace.
But it is not a religion of stand back and watch your brothers getting opressed, their livilihood get buldozers or sit back and watch as they stick a sword into someone else (it's ok for you to sit back and watch, maybe you feel helpless but siding with them is another thing). It is letigimate to fight back against the oppressors, and their is a clear warning against siding against the opressors.

Originally Posted by abdmez
Allah give you guidance. For it seems you can never be at peace until you see the death of your enemies, and this is a very bad trait to have.
Not death of people, but death of oppresors and ther Israeli state. Nott people who has not supported this.
Blame modern warefare, you sould know Israel been using them for a long time.

Originally Posted by abdmez
It isn't just about me. It's about the welfare of my people. Not the agenda of Iran and Syria and YOUR selfish agenda which want the destruction of Israel.
Exactly, you see it is about you nationalitic view my people, what about your people in Gaza e.t.c and other place who have suffered. Why don't you cry out or demand the Israeli state one so much love to stop, why don't you fight them than?

Originally Posted by abdmez
What is selfish is teaching a kid in the Gaza Strip that the only way he will get to heaven and make something of his life is to be a martyr, or suicide bomber.
You listen to propaganda?

Do you know the events and condition that leads to this thoughts?
It easy for all of us to sit back miles away and say blah blah blah, but I gurantee if you was the people who been opressed and humiliated than you will probably have done the samething.

Originally Posted by abdmez
There are many ways to declare Jihad, and the word Jihad itself has been hijacked by war loving people.
Bro, that is a rediculouse statement, and the statement does not apply in every place and time.

Have You read the Sira of our prophet?
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ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 04:25 PM
this is dumb
I have family in Palestine.

They are Christians And they are opressed by all!

No one cares about them though do they?
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-03-2006, 04:28 PM
Down with Israel!
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abdmez
08-03-2006, 04:33 PM
But it is not a religion of stand back and watch your brothers getting opressed, their livilihood get buldozers or sit back and watch as they stick a sword into someone else (it's ok for you to sit back and watch, maybe you feel helpless but siding with them is another thing). It is letigimate to fight back against the oppressors, and their is a clear warning against siding against the opressors.
I'm not siding with the opressors because Israel does not opress like your are led to believe. Muslims have full rights here. I actually believe that I have more rights here in Israel than I would in many Arab countries.

Do you know the events and condition that leads to this thoughts?
It easy for all of us to sit back miles away and say blah blah blah, but I gurantee if you was the people who been opressed and humiliated than you will probably have done the samething.
Oh please! Israel gave Gaza back and what did the people do? They fought eachother completly embarrasing all of my people. Fatah and Hamas fired at there fellow countrymen! They acted like a bunch of idiots.

They spent money that could have gon to hospitals and schools for Gaza on bullets to kill eachother!

Bro, that is a rediculouse statement, and the statement does not apply in every place and time.

Have You read the Sira of our prophet?

Brother Woodrow does not think what I said is ridiculous. And he is not a war loving person.

Exactly, you see it is about you nationalitic view my people, what about your people in Gaza e.t.c and other place who have suffered. Why don't you cry out or demand the Israeli state one so much love to stop, why don't you fight them than?
I have family in Gaza and 1 of my cousins died! Not from a Jew or Israeli! From a member of Hamas! He did nothing wrong! He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, as they have turned Gaza until a killing ground for power!!!

Hamas and Fatah act like children killing eachother and my people instead of trying to actualy build something!


I cry out for Hamas and Fatah to stop the pathetic greed they both have and for the first time act in the name of my people! Not there bank accounts!
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-03-2006, 04:42 PM
I'm not siding with the opressors because Israel does not opress like your are led to believe. Muslims have full rights here. I actually believe that I have more rights here in Israel than I would in many Arab countries.
Human Rights watch clearly proves that Israel is an oppressive state. Conditions have worsened as time progresses. Go educate yourself before you generalise.

Oh please! Israel gave Gaza back and what did the people do? They fought eachother completly embarrasing all of my people. Fatah and Hamas fired at there fellow countrymen! They acted like a bunch of idiots.

They spent money that could have gon to hospitals and schools for Gaza on bullets to kill eachother!
Israelis killed more children and civilians than Hamas/Palestine by tenfold

There is even a law that prohibits Palestinians to sue the IDF for murder of innocent family members.

Its easy to support Israel when they havent yet blown the head of a family member and get away with it.

I have family in Gaza and 1 of my cousins died! Not from a Jew or Israeli! From a member of Hamas! He did nothing wrong! He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, as they have turned Gaza until a killing ground for power!!!

Hamas and Fatah act like children killing eachother and my people instead of trying to actualy build something!
I have distant counins who have been killed by the IDF. I blame Israel for all problems with Hamas/Fatah. After all, the motives of Hamas are apparent.

I cry out for Hamas and Fatah to stop the pathetic greed they both have and for the first time act in the name of my people! Not there bank accounts!
Irrelevent and baseless brainwashing propaganda.
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Skillganon
08-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by abdmez
I'm not siding with the opressors because Israel does not opress like your are led to believe. Muslims have full rights here. I actually believe that I have more rights here in Israel than I would in many Arab countries.
Israel does not oppress, so how do you think they came to power. What are all this so call oppressed people being fighting for. The problem with this statement is, they are not oppressing you but others.
I have more right here than many arab countries is not an argument for existant of a state that has been opressing other people for years.

Originally Posted by abdmez
Oh please! Israel gave Gaza back and what did the people do? They fought eachother completly embarrasing all of my people. Fatah and Hamas fired at there fellow countrymen! They acted like a bunch of idiots.
Your point is off, I was talking about the suicide bombers here. It suprise me your attention goes straight to Gaza. First ask me what right have a thief to take it in the first place.

Originally Posted by abdmez
They spent money that could have gone to hospitals and schools for Gaza on bullets to kill eachother!
I agree. They should of spend the bullet on the Zionist army. Or maybe look for long term plan of taking over.

Originally Posted by abdmez
Brother Woodrow does not think what I said is ridiculous. And he is not a war loving person.
You agree any action should be done according to the Quranand the Sunnah?

Originally Posted by abdmez
[B]I have family in Gaza and 1 of my cousins died! Not from a Jew or Israeli! From a member of Hamas! He did nothing wrong! He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, as they have turned Gaza until a killing ground for power!!!
That is truly unfortunate, May Allah(swt) have mercy.

Originally Posted by abdmez
Hamas and Fatah act like children killing eachother and my people instead of trying to actualy build something!
I agree, they should get more organized.

Originally Posted by abdmez
I cry out for Hamas and Fatah to stop the pathetic greed they both have and for the first time act in the name of my people! Not there bank accounts!
I agree, and that they should get more organize and plan for long term removal of Israeli state, (Not the people).
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abdmez
08-03-2006, 04:57 PM
Your point is off, I was talking about the suicide bombers here. It suprise me your attention goes straight to Gaza. First ask me what right have a thief to take it in the first place.
Gaza was not part of Israel until Arab Nations out of greed decided to destroy Israel. If we just let Israel alone, Islam would be in control of Jerusalem and almost 75% of what is today Israel.

I agree, they should get more organized.
They should get more organized for peace. Not war. But that won't happen as long as Fatah and Hamas are running the show. They are very corrupt, and don't care for the interest of my people.


Go hope for more War and destruction. After all your kids futures are not on the line in London. Mine are and I will always hope for Peace, not War like you do.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-03-2006, 05:02 PM
They should get more organized for peace. Not war. But that won't happen as long as Fatah and Hamas are running the show. They are very corrupt, and don't care for the interest of my people.
Like Ahmadinejad said, we are organizing for the destriction of the Zionist regime, the REAL solution.
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ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 05:05 PM
Like Ahmadinejad said, we are organizing for the destriction of the Zionist regime, the REAL solution.
You sound like such a Nazi when you speak about your "Solution"

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/fsol.htm

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/index.ph...uleId=10005151

"FINAL SOLUTION"

It remains uncertain as to when the Nazi leadership decided to implement the "Final Solution," the plan to annihilate the Jewish people. The genocide of the Jews was the culmination of a decade of Nazi policy, under the rule of Adolf Hitler.

The persecution and segregation of the Jews was implemented in stages. After the Nazi party achieved power, state-enforced racism resulted in anti-Jewish legislation, boycotts, "Aryanization," and the Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") pogroms, all of which aimed to systematically isolate the Jews from German society and drive them out of Germany.


After the September 1939 German invasion of Poland (the beginning of World War II), anti-Jewish policy evolved into a comprehensive plan to concentrate and eventually annihilate European Jewry. The Nazis first established ghettos in the Generalgouvernement (a territory in central and eastern Poland in which the Germans established a German civilian government) and the Warthegau (an area of western Poland annexed to Germany). Polish and western European Jews were deported to these ghettos.

After the June 1941 German invasion of the Soviet Union, Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing units) began killing operations aimed at entire Jewish communities. The SS, the elite guard of the Nazi state, soon regarded the mobile killing methods--mainly shooting or gas vans--as inefficient and as a psychological burden on the killers. On July 31, 1941, Hermann Goering authorized Reinhard Heydrich to make preparations for the implementation of a "complete solution of the Jewish question."



In the autumn of 1941, Heinrich Himmler entrusted SS General Odilo Globocnik (SS and police leader for the Lublin District) with the implementation of a plan to systematically murder the Jews of the Generalgouvernement. The code name Aktion Reinhard was eventually given to the plan, after Heydrich (who had been tasked with implementing the "Final Solution" and who was assassinated by Czech partisans in May 1942). Three extermination camps were established in Poland as part of Aktion Reinhard--Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. Upon arrival at the camps, Jews were sent directly to the gas chambers. Globocnik's assistant, SS Major Hermann Hoefle, was in charge of organizing the deportations to the Aktion Reinhard camps.


The Nazis also gassed Jews at other extermination camps in Poland: Auschwitz-Birkenau (which was the largest camp), Majdanek, and Chelmno. At Majdanek, groups of Jews deemed incapable of work were gassed. At Chelmno, Jews were gassed in mobile gas vans. The Nazis systematically murdered over three million Jews in the extermination camps.

In its entirety, the "Final Solution" called for the murder of the Jews of Europe by gassing, shooting, and other means. Up to six million Jews lost their lives--two-thirds of the Jews living in Europe in 1939.
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Zionazi_Dissent
08-03-2006, 05:08 PM
Nice copy and paste work :P

End of Jews does not equate to end of Zionists.

Better luck next time.....
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ManchesterFolk
08-03-2006, 05:19 PM
I gave you the links to show you it was copy and paste work you moron.

It shows you how you sound like one of Hitlers top guys saying 'final solution'

But then again your probably like the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Hitlers biggest supporter straight from the Middle East!

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Zionazi_Dissent
08-03-2006, 05:21 PM
We respect the messiah of the Jews.
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Geronimo
08-03-2006, 05:21 PM
I find it hilarious that people from London, Indonesia, and America arguing with someone that actually lives there. Who would know more someone who lives it everyday or someone who comes to islamicboard to read articles about it? It's the same thing with Lebanon and Lara. Because these people don't agree with you they must be ignorant. Hell people here try to tell me about my own people.
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Geronimo
08-03-2006, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
I gave you the links to show you it was copy and paste work you moron.

It shows you how you sound like one of Hitlers top guys saying 'final solution'

But then again your probably like the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Hitlers biggest supporter straight from the Middle East!

Did you know he lead the SS in Estonia and oversaw the murder of thousands of Jews?
Reply

guyabano
08-03-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by abdmez
Brothers and Sisters.

I live in Jerusalem. I want to make it clear, that I think my childrens futures would be better of under Israeli control. My kids go to very good schools, they learn a lot, because of Israel they will be able to go to college for FREE. Just because we are Muslims and a minority Israel is going to give my kids a FREE COLLEGE. I was very happy at recieving this news.

I have a cousin who was killed in the Gaza Strip! Not by an Israeli, but by his own countrymen. By a Hamas supporter. Hamas and Fatah have spent all of the money that should go to building schools and hospitals to buying bullets. They killed innocent in Gaza, and are out fo control with there hunger for power against eachother. The innocent are the ones who paid the price. My cousin paid the price.

I look at the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank, and I look at the instabability, and how even after Palestine is a country and my people get a country of there own, Fatah and Hamas will continue fighting, and the people who want peace for there children like me will be lost in the cross fire.

I would just like to let you know that I am a Muslim who lives under Israeli control and I am not opressed.

Hate me because I do not go along with your agenda, but I could not care. Call me up when its your kids futures on the line, and call me up when your not just watching this whole conflict from your TV set in England.

When the bullets are flying and they could actually hit YOU. Your opinion changes into a voice for peace.

Regards,

Abdul
Absolutely nice post. I wish we could more see of them.

Reply

Hijrah
08-03-2006, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum,

i would urge you to look at the works of classical scholars like ibn taymiyyah who made the ruling that the one who lived in and helped the occupation of muslim land by even living there and paying their taxes, even if he professed islam was still a valid target himself for this.

helping the kuffar in their occupation of muslim lands is kufr and may Allah give you guidence because your words in not repented from could land you in the hellfire.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
You have to realize that by this logic, you are in a no better place to live in the UK
Reply

nimrod
08-04-2006, 01:52 AM
Woodrow, I would send some reps your way, but the way the system is set up, I can’t.

Your words here “Sadly people that have never experienced war, tend to glorify it” seemed to address some of the posts I have seen made by younger folks.

At times, their pro-war posts make me wonder, if they feel that way as strongly as their posts suggest, then why are they on the computer instead of in the trenches somewhere?

Thanks
Nimrod
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Wahid
08-04-2006, 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by Dahir
Only if the warmongers and Hamas-sympathizers knew that!

I know Israel is a good state, its just the few bloodthirsty warmongers who say otherwise and who side with Hezbollah and Hamas.

I pray for you and your family and I hope that one day Palestinians realize that Israel is there to help not occupy!

-Dahir! Supporter of a united and peaceful Israel.
are you serious here??
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starfortress
08-04-2006, 02:12 AM
Originally Posted by abdmez
Brothers and Sisters.

I live in Jerusalem. I want to make it clear, that I think my childrens futures would be better of under Israeli control. My kids go to very good schools, they learn a lot, because of Israel they will be able to go to college for FREE. Just because we are Muslims and a minority Israel is going to give my kids a FREE COLLEGE. I was very happy at recieving this news.

I have a cousin who was killed in the Gaza Strip! Not by an Israeli, but by his own countrymen. By a Hamas supporter. Hamas and Fatah have spent all of the money that should go to building schools and hospitals to buying bullets. They killed innocent in Gaza, and are out fo control with there hunger for power against eachother. The innocent are the ones who paid the price. My cousin paid the price.

I look at the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank, and I look at the instabability, and how even after Palestine is a country and my people get a country of there own, Fatah and Hamas will continue fighting, and the people who want peace for there children like me will be lost in the cross fire.

I would just like to let you know that I am a Muslim who lives under Israeli control and I am not opressed.

Hate me because I do not go along with your agenda, but I could not care. Call me up when its your kids futures on the line, and call me up when your not just watching this whole conflict from your TV set in England.

When the bullets are flying and they could actually hit YOU. Your opinion changes into a voice for peace.

Regards,

Abdul
:sl:
Treat and served the minority well but cruel over the majority of your brotherhood,you should know how tricky is jewish.Of course they wouldn't oppress over the minority muslim in their land, "thats mean they do not want any enemy element from inside" BTW i dont know what is your really point or agenda.
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Keltoi
08-04-2006, 02:15 AM
Sounds like his "agenda" is living in peace....
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north_malaysian
08-04-2006, 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by starfortress
:sl:
Treat and served the minority well but cruel over the majority of your brotherhood,you should know how tricky is jewish.Of course they wouldn't oppress over the minority muslim in their land, "thats mean they do not want any enemy element from inside" BTW i dont know what is your really point or agenda.
I wonder, if Palestine achieved fully independence from Israel. Would the State of Palestine treat their Jewish citizens (eg. the Samaritans) fairly?
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Dawud_uk
08-04-2006, 07:49 AM
Originally Posted by Hijrah
You have to realize that by this logic, you are in a no better place to live in the UK

assalaamu alaykum hijrah,

i am fully aware of the illogical position i am in, and am making preperations to make hijrah myself.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
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lavikor201
08-04-2006, 05:07 PM
You all fail to focus on the fact that someone living in the middle of the crossfire has a different opinion then the greedy people who have hijacked the Palestinian cause into a cause for destroying Israel and killing Jews.
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Hijrah
08-04-2006, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
assalaamu alaykum hijrah,

i am fully aware of the illogical position i am in, and am making preperations to make hijrah myself.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
That's the thing though, you are right!
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מדינת ישׂראל
08-06-2006, 08:53 PM
Very good post by the creator of this topic.
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-06-2006, 08:58 PM
i actually got slightly sucked in by this, but then i used a little gift called a brain (Alhamdullilah, subhanAllah) And i realised that its still not justifying the occupation of islamic territory and killing of thousands and traumatising nearly a million !
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Dahir
08-06-2006, 10:34 PM
i actually got slightly sucked in by this, but then i used a little gift called a brain (Alhamdullilah, subhanAllah) And i realised that its still not justifying the occupation of islamic territory and killing of thousands and traumatising nearly a million !
But bro. Abdmez is there, he sees no oppression. Don't you have to take his words just slightly into consideration. Peace reigns where Hamas does not.
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מדינת ישׂראל
08-07-2006, 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by Dahir
But bro. Abdmez is there, he sees no oppression. Don't you have to take his words just slightly into consideration. Peace reigns where Hamas does not.
They would love his opinion if he followed there agenda, but it is to bad for them that abdmez is an individual thinker.
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ManchesterFolk
08-07-2006, 02:53 AM
They don't like 'individual' thinkers...
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מדינת ישׂראל
08-07-2006, 03:55 AM
Oh well.

Props to Abdul for speaking his mind.
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Dahir
08-07-2006, 06:24 AM
They would love his opinion if he followed there agenda, but it is to bad for them that abdmez is an individual thinker.
Good thing Abdmez makes things right and breaks the stereotypes where they stand!
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IbnAbdulHakim
08-07-2006, 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by Dahir
But bro. Abdmez is there, he sees no oppression. Don't you have to take his words just slightly into consideration. Peace reigns where Hamas does not.
Dahir, Abdmez is IN ISRAEL , tell him to try live one day in palestine/lebanon etc !
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-07-2006, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by מדינת ישׂראל
They would love his opinion if he followed there agenda, but it is to bad for them that abdmez is an individual thinker.
as someone has pointed out, Abdmez is happy that HE is being treated nice, he overlooks the thousands of innocent lebanese who have been mercilessly killed!
Reply

Dawud_uk
08-07-2006, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Mazed
Dahir, Abdmez is IN ISRAEL , tell him to try live one day in palestine/lebanon etc !

assalaamu alaykum,

brothers and sisters should be very careful, Allah clearly tells us not to side with the kuffar against the muslims and this is exactly what certain muslims on here are advocating.

this is in itself a blatent act of kufr (apostasy) and although we are not qualified to pronounce takfir (call someone a kaffir) because we are not scholars or students of knowledge, still we should denounce those who side with kuffar against the muslims as guilty of an act of kufr and warn them that they need to repent.

we should fear Allah and not allow ourselves to be blinded by taking the easy path. it would have been easy for the prophet Muhammad (saws) to do so but he took the correct path each time and the correct thing to do here is defend the muslim lands against the zionist agressors whether it is in palestine or lebanon.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud
Reply

מדינת ישׂראל
08-07-2006, 02:09 PM
Dahir, Abdmez is IN ISRAEL , tell him to try live one day in palestine/lebanon etc !
Did you even read his posts? His cousin was killed in the Gaza strip by his fellow Palestinians!

He has family who live in the Gaza Strip... do you think he doesn't care about his family?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-07-2006, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by מדינת ישׂראל
Did you even read his posts? His cousin was killed in the Gaza strip by his fellow Palestinians!

He has family who live in the Gaza Strip... do you think he doesn't care about his family?
having family there and living there is different. His got security and therefore his happy. What about those millions that have no security? THATS MY POINT!
Reply

lavikor201
08-07-2006, 02:38 PM
His cousin obiously had no ssecurity, because the governing body of the Gaza Strip killed his cousin! Hamas killed his cousin.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
08-07-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
His cousin obiously had no ssecurity, because the governing body of the Gaza Strip killed his cousin! Hamas killed his cousin.
my point exactly, this stupid war between israel and arabs needs to end ! but instead it only seems like the israelli's want more and more land ! Why cant they be happy with what they have. It definitly seems like they want to take over the land of lebanon!

first they had 1%, then 6% and now 50%-60% and looks like they want more...
Reply

Dawud_uk
08-07-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
His cousin obiously had no ssecurity, because the governing body of the Gaza Strip killed his cousin! Hamas killed his cousin.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence lavikor,

the situation in gaza and the west bank is very dire security wise, people are killed in stupid arguments over pride between families and the PLO are very corrupt.

one PLO police commander was even accused of several rapes of his sister muslims but he was untouchable because of his position and as a member of the PLO.

so people are fighting in family feuds and others are fighting to preserve their family position which is owed to their loyalty to the PLO.

i am not saying that is why he was killed as i know nothing of the situation,

but HAMAS was chosen by the people of palestine because they said they would end the corruption which is mostly down to mismanagement and corruption within the PLO and to end the feuds.

God willing they will succeed in that.

as well as that HAMAS refuse to compromise on the islamic principle of permenently surendering muslim land, we cannot do it islamically.

so before the present stage of the conflict they stated they would sign a long term truce. this really is the best the jews can hope for as the muslims will never give more than this.

the muslims are becomming more and more religious both in palestine and other muslim lands, one day the jews will have to face the muslims united for their crimes in the foundation of israel and the stealing of palestine lands and resources.

but if the jews were clever they would sign that long term truce now, whilst they are in a position of strength because without it they will be destroyed totally as the jews of the past were who sided with the pagans of mekkah and tried to kill the prophet Muhammad (saws).

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Daw'ud
Reply

מדינת ישׂראל
08-07-2006, 06:05 PM
So how can Israel negotiate with a group that wishes its total destruction?

They can't, therefore the hopes for peace in this region look very slim.

Does the Quran say anything about negotiating with people who have sworn to kill you?
Reply

Chuck
08-07-2006, 06:25 PM
but HAMAS was chosen by the people of palestine because they said they would end the corruption which is mostly down to mismanagement and corruption within the PLO and to end the feuds.
Why Hamas can't accept Israel as a state? There are more important issues like ending corruption and poverty in Palestinian areas.
Reply

Skillganon
08-07-2006, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Why Hamas can't accept Israel as a state? There are more important issues like ending corruption and poverty in Palestinian areas.
Why should you accept thieves?
Reply

wilberhum
08-07-2006, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Why should you accept thieves?
Maybe to stop a 60 year old war?
Or would you like to see killing go on for another 60 years?
How much death and distruction will it take to satisfy you?

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
Reply

Chuck
08-08-2006, 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Why should you accept thieves?
Well, it is not about accepting thieves, it is focusing on issues more important issues for Palestinians.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-08-2006, 02:21 AM
Thanks god I'm living in Malaysia.... You people make me confused!!!!
Reply

lavikor201
08-08-2006, 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by Skillganon
Why should you accept thieves?
How many lands in the Middle East that are now Muslim were 'stolen' from there original rulers and kingdoms...
Reply

north_malaysian
08-08-2006, 03:54 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
How many lands in the Middle East that are now Muslim were 'stolen' from there original rulers and kingdoms...
For me the good solution for this problems is to look forward, not looking whatever had happen before.......

Now we have an independent state of Israel and territories of Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Let us have a two separate country, namely:

1) Israel
2) Palestine

Issues:

Border
It the best way to use a pre-1967 border which is recognized by UN (if I'm not mistaken)

Jerusalem
1) Making it a neutral city under the admin of UN, or
2) Making it a divided city, which the Armenian, Christian and Muslim quarters ruled by Palestinians, and the Jewish part ruled by Israelis, or
3) A co-admin city by both Israel and Palestine (like a buffer zone or neutral zone) which Palestinians ruled according to Palestinian laws and Israelis under Israeli law. If there an action which involve both side, there should be a 'private International Law Court'.

Mount Temple / Al Aqsa mosque

Build a very large building, like twice the size of the mount temple on that site. This building will be divided equally between two religious group with a thick wall separating both part..... Religious activities by either party must never harm or distract other religious group. Dome of Rock (Masjid Umar) and Wailing wall must never be demolished because it's the ONLY memorable building for each respective religious group.

Palestinian refugees
They can come back and stay anywhere in Palestinian territory, but if they want to go back to their lands inside Israel, they have to choices:

a) Being an Israeli citizen, which must be loyal to the state of israel like other israelis, or
b) Being a Palestinian citizen with permanent resident status in Israel.

The cost of buying lands, houses inside Israel should be under a fund organized by OIC or Arab League. If their lands have Israelis living on it, they can buy any land available in Israel.

Jewish making aliyah
They can stay anywhere they like in Israel, but if they want to live inside Palestinian territory, the rules would be like Palestinian refugees mentioned before.

Equality

1) Israel to have: A Jewish president, A Jewish Prime Minister, A Sunni Deputy Prime Minister and a Druze Speaker of Parliament.

2) PAlestine to have: A Sunni President, A Sunni Prime Minister, A Jewish Deputy Prime Minister (i think maybe Naturei Kartei jews wanna be Palestinian citizens) and a Christian Speaker of Parliament.
Reply

Keltoi
08-08-2006, 04:05 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
For me the good solution for this problems is to look forward, not looking whatever had happen before.......

Now we have an independent state of Israel and territories of Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Let us have a two separate country, namely:

1) Israel
2) Palestine

Issues:

Border
It the best way to use a pre-1967 border which is recognized by UN (if I'm not mistaken)

Jerusalem
1) Making it a neutral city under the admin of UN, or
2) Making it a divided city, which the Armenian, Christian and Muslim quarters ruled by Palestinians, and the Jewish part ruled by Israelis, or
3) A co-admin city by both Israel and Palestine (like a buffer zone or neutral zone) which Palestinians ruled according to Palestinian laws and Israelis under Israeli law. If there an action which involve both side, there should be a 'private International Law Court'.

Mount Temple / Al Aqsa mosque

Build a very large building, like twice the size of the mount temple on that site. This building will be divided equally between two religious group with a thick wall separating both part..... Religious activities by either party must never harm or distract other religious group. Dome of Rock (Masjid Umar) and Wailing wall must never be demolished because it's the ONLY memorable building for each respective religious group.

Palestinian refugees
They can come back and stay anywhere in Palestinian territory, but if they want to go back to their lands inside Israel, they have to choices:

a) Being an Israeli citizen, which must be loyal to the state of israel like other israelis, or
b) Being a Palestinian citizen with permanent resident status in Israel.

The cost of buying lands, houses inside Israel should be under a fund organized by OIC or Arab League. If their lands have Israelis living on it, they can buy any land available in Israel.

Jewish making aliyah
They can stay anywhere they like in Israel, but if they want to live inside Palestinian territory, the rules would be like Palestinian refugees mentioned before.

Equality

1) Israel to have: A Jewish president, A Jewish Prime Minister, A Sunni Deputy Prime Minister and a Druze Speaker of Parliament.

2) PAlestine to have: A Sunni President, A Sunni Prime Minister, A Jewish Deputy Prime Minister (i think maybe Naturei Kartei jews wanna be Palestinian citizens) and a Christian Speaker of Parliament.
Sounds fair to me
Reply

north_malaysian
08-08-2006, 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Sounds fair to me
Thank you....

But I know it's not perfect solution, maybe some forummers would like to donate some suggestions to it.

I mean, if the world leader cant solve it, let us do it for them.... at least in this forum..
Reply

Dawud_uk
08-08-2006, 07:36 AM
At the end of the day Hamas said they would accept a long-term truce and as fair as i am aware this offer still stands despite all the killings and everything. A 10 or 20 or 50 year truce on the pre 67 borders.

Take it or leave it because nothing else is on the table.

I personally think the Zionist Jews are being foolish by not taking it, take a look around the middle east, Islam is rising up again and if you don’t have the deal signed and sealed with the Islamic movement by the time Islam comes about as a state system them Israel will be wiped off the map.

However if the deal is signed and they are at least still there in 50 years after a deal then they can sign another deal, a long-term lease in effect.

Personally i have no problem with Jews continuing to live there once an Islamic state comes about, but the Palestinians have a right to return but if the Jews compromised then i think it would be fair if they struck deals with those Palestinian families whose land they are occupying and paid them compensation, that would be fair.

That way Islamic rule would be restored, Palestinian rights would be recognised and Jews would be able to continue to live there, although under less favourable conditions than they presently enjoy.

Peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance,
Daw’ud
Reply

north_malaysian
08-08-2006, 07:58 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
At the end of the day Hamas said they would accept a long-term truce and as fair as i am aware this offer still stands despite all the killings and everything. A 10 or 20 or 50 year truce on the pre 67 borders.

Take it or leave it because nothing else is on the table.

I personally think the Zionist Jews are being foolish by not taking it, take a look around the middle east, Islam is rising up again and if you don’t have the deal signed and sealed with the Islamic movement by the time Islam comes about as a state system them Israel will be wiped off the map.

However if the deal is signed and they are at least still there in 50 years after a deal then they can sign another deal, a long-term lease in effect.

Personally i have no problem with Jews continuing to live there once an Islamic state comes about, but the Palestinians have a right to return but if the Jews compromised then i think it would be fair if they struck deals with those Palestinian families whose land they are occupying and paid them compensation, that would be fair.

That way Islamic rule would be restored, Palestinian rights would be recognised and Jews would be able to continue to live there, although under less favourable conditions than they presently enjoy.

Peace be upon those who follow righteous guidance,
Daw’ud
I think it's better for big, fat and rich Muslims to establish a fund for Arabs to come back to Israel by helping them to buy lands, houses and have jobs rather than compensation by Israelis. Let bygones be bygones.

If both countries establish fully independent borders.... for sure Malaysia would have diplomatic relationship with Israel... and Inshallah, I'll be dining at Lavikor's restaurant..
Reply

wilberhum
08-08-2006, 04:09 PM
At the end of the day Hamas said they would accept a long-term truce
True, but they will not recognize the right for Israel to exist. One of there objectives, the elimination of Israel, is still part of there agendia. I asume that a long-term truce would be used to re-arm and re-group for future attacks.
Reply

Dawud_uk
08-09-2006, 06:14 AM
Originally Posted by Chuck
Why Hamas can't accept Israel as a state? There are more important issues like ending corruption and poverty in Palestinian areas.

to Chuck / wilberhum,

the prophet Muhammad (saws) is reported to have said we cannot hand over even one handspan of muslim land and as muslims accept his word as final then really that is it.

therefore israel will never be recognised, full stop, it cannot and if hamas did so they would lose their support and help from the islamically minded people of the world as they have ruled by something other than Shariah.

if however an islamic force, i.e hamas were to sign a long term truce then this would have to be recognised by everyone else.

However the zionists are too stubborn to see the opportunity in front of them, and too stubborn to see the islamic forces arising around them. if they dont take hamas up on their offer soon then sooner rather than later an islamic state will come about in the middle east and when that happens israel is doomed.

note i say israel, not necessarily all jews there. but the zionist state would be wiped off the map as a country at that point.

if however they are wise then can sign a long term truce now which is really the best they'll ever get.

Daw'ud
Reply

north_malaysian
08-09-2006, 08:43 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
to Chuck / wilberhum,

the prophet Muhammad (saws) is reported to have said we cannot hand over even one handspan of muslim land and as muslims accept his word as final then really that is it.
How about Spain & Portugal (Al Andalus)?
Reply

Dawud_uk
08-09-2006, 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
How about Spain & Portugal (Al Andalus)?

Andalus has a very high reversion rate, only the UK and France have a faster reversion rate so the situation will resolve itself as the people forced to accept trinitarian christianity gradually become muslim in greater numbers.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-09-2006, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
Andalus has a very high reversion rate, only the UK and France have a faster reversion rate so the situation will resolve itself as the people forced to accept trinitarian christianity gradually become muslim in greater numbers.
I thought it's higher in USA and Canada....(the reversion). There is an ISlamic University in Granada isnt it?
Reply

Dawud_uk
08-09-2006, 12:30 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I thought it's higher in USA and Canada....(the reversion). There is an ISlamic University in Granada isnt it?
apologies you are right,

i meant to right highest in europe!
Reply

מדינת ישׂראל
08-09-2006, 01:54 PM
we cannot hand over even one handspan of muslim land
What makes Israel Muslim land? The fact that Muslims conquered it automatically makes it Muslim land?

Do you have long enough vision to realize it was Jewish land way before Islam and remains to be Jewish land.
Reply

wilberhum
08-09-2006, 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Dawud_uk
to Chuck / wilberhum,

the prophet Muhammad (saws) is reported to have said we cannot hand over even one handspan of muslim land and as muslims accept his word as final then really that is it.

therefore israel will never be recognised, full stop, it cannot and if hamas did so they would lose their support and help from the islamically minded people of the world as they have ruled by something other than Shariah.

if however an islamic force, i.e hamas were to sign a long term truce then this would have to be recognised by everyone else.

However the zionists are too stubborn to see the opportunity in front of them, and too stubborn to see the islamic forces arising around them. if they dont take hamas up on their offer soon then sooner rather than later an islamic state will come about in the middle east and when that happens israel is doomed.

note i say israel, not necessarily all jews there. but the zionist state would be wiped off the map as a country at that point.

if however they are wise then can sign a long term truce now which is really the best they'll ever get.

Daw'ud
Therefore there can never be peace. What a worderfull thought.
Reply

Md Mashud
08-09-2006, 06:08 PM
Oh, your 1 story now suddenly represents everyone? Please...
Reply

lavikor201
08-09-2006, 11:01 PM
What are you talking about?
Reply

north_malaysian
08-10-2006, 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by מדינת ישׂראל
What makes Israel Muslim land? The fact that Muslims conquered it automatically makes it Muslim land?

Do you have long enough vision to realize it was Jewish land way before Islam and remains to be Jewish land.
I've read somewhere that Abraham is a Hebrew. And 'Hebrew' means 'a native of Euphrates'.. Which means he migrated to Palestine then.... so there must be somebody living there before the Jews?
Reply

Al-Zaara
08-10-2006, 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by Md Mashud
Oh, your 1 story now suddenly represents everyone? Please...
Exactly what I was about to say...

:w:
Reply

מדינת ישׂראל
08-10-2006, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I've read somewhere that Abraham is a Hebrew. And 'Hebrew' means 'a native of Euphrates'.. Which means he migrated to Palestine then.... so there must be somebody living there before the Jews?
Abraham was not born in the Holy Land.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-11-2006, 08:26 AM
Originally Posted by מדינת ישׂראל
Abraham was not born in the Holy Land.
So who was born there before he came? Greeks?
Reply

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