(MUST SEE VIDEO) Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land

[Lamaggad]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...23714384920696

this is the perfect explanation why the peace process isn't working with the false zionist state "israel".

searchingsoul... look at what your friend israel are doing to Arabs before you blame Hamas and Hezb Allah and Arabs for terror.

israel crossed all the red lines by doing WAR-CRIMES among the Palestinians and now among Lebenese.

P.S: by the way, this documantry also explains the lies of the zionists media in the west by the name of "israel is defending its self"

[mlsh27]

Peace is not possible because both sides have the wrong mentality, along with the majority of the world which seems to be including you, Lamaggad.

[Lamaggad]

Peace is not possible because both sides have the wrong mentality, along with the majority of the world which seems to be including you, Lamaggad.

Just watch the documantry before you speak.... Sister!!

[mlsh27]

I still say the same thing.

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[Dahir]

Just watch the documantry before you speak

Just live in Palestine before you speak.

Look, Lammagad, Palestine is a peaceful, prosperous, flourishing nation, but its under the grips of a group of outlaws called Hamas; and formerly the PLO.

PM Abdmez, he is a REAL Palestinian living in Jerusalem, he is thankful for the Israelis and does not feel oppressed; his children will go to college for free because of Israel's programs that fund minority students like Palestinians and Christian and Muslim Israelis.

I urge you to speak to bro. Abdmez, he knows the reality and things aren't as bad and extreme as some make it to be!

[searchingsoul]

I've never denied that atrocities have been committed by the Israeli's. Considering the level of hate between Israel and the Arab world I can only imagine that such crimes will only continue.

Both sides need to make the decision to co-exist before peace stands a chance. Both sides need to recognize their own errors. It's not a one sided issue. Both sides are at fault.

Video's of this kind are nothing new to me.

[mlsh27]

I've never denied that atrocities have been committed by the Israeli's. Considering the level of hate between Israel and the Arab world I can only imagine that such crimes will only continue.

Both sides need to make the decision to co-exist before peace stands a chance. Both sides need to recognize their own errors. It's not a one sided issue. Both sides are at fault.

Video's of this kind are nothing new to me.

100% agree! However, I think people fail to truly realize why they won't accept peace, or even consider it. Generally, people are vengeful, and only love thy neighbor until the neighbor does something they disagree with.

[Dahir]

Video's of this kind are nothing new to me.

There are tons of those, for both sides!

Should we link to Katyushas falling into Kiryat Shmona?

[Lamaggad]

[B]Just live in Palestine before you speak.

I am Muslim Palestinian "originally from Yafa city" who have lived in Palestine... and will go back to Palestine.

Subhana Allah, some Muslims are so ignorant that makes me sick when i read their posts.

you better look at this documentary that was done by American non-Muslims in USA... unfortunately I have respect for such people more than I have for my brothers and sisters in Islam whom are ignorant.

you guys need MAJOR help... Allah Al-Musta3an

[Lamaggad]

There are tons of those, for both sides!

Should we link to Katyushas falling into Kiryat Shmona?

Please do...

[searchingsoul]

The only way to get the Palestinian state you want is to obliterate Israel. The Israeli's aren't going to stand there and let you kill them. They've made friends with the right countries. Palestine has made friends with...., well no one who is willing help them. What does that say?

Go get it! Go get your land! Don't expect international intervention to get it for you! Do it yourself, or find a few allies to help you! The world is waiting for your victory!

Best of luck to you and your own.

[mlsh27]

I think people forget that it is all Allah's swt land...not people's

[searchingsoul]

I think people forget that it is all Allah's swt land...not people's

He appointed kings over "his land", or at least that's the way the old testament of the bible reads.

[Lamaggad]

This documentary is amazing... it shows you how Jews and Muslims help each other but ofcourse the Media doesn't show that...

any way.. the picture never lies no matter what they keep hiding... Truth is allways there and will come out sooner or later.

[Lamaggad]

and it also discuss the peace process at the end of it... they are explaining how the peace process should be so it can succeed between both sides..

it's a very good and logical documentary... i advise every one to watch it and share it with others.

[starfortress]

I am Muslim Palestinian "originally from Yafa city" who have lived in Palestine... and will go back to Palestine.

Subhana Allah, some Muslims are so ignorant that makes me sick when i read their posts.

you better look at this documentary that was done by American non-Muslims in USA... unfortunately I have respect for such people more than I have for my brothers and sisters in Islam whom are ignorant.

you guys need MAJOR help... Allah Al-Musta3an

Yea,we here will always support our bro and sis in mideast.Never understand how they all western judge or mesure the meaning of tortured and torturer,victim and prey.Just look on the daily casualties statitistic on those both side palestine/israel,you should know who is the prey and who is the victim.

They are very clever, brave and have an insatiable curiosity... unfortunately they are also very greedy and like to take forcibly the territories and rights of other people...
Ex-Malaysian PM

[scentsofjannah]

the video is amazing..something ignorant Americans should see.

Dahir..we dont deny Israeli civilians also suffer from the occupation and the drastic reactions of a handful of palestinians..so stop repeating yourself like a parrot.

[scentsofjannah]

Just live in Palestine before you speak.

Look, Lammagad, Palestine is a peaceful, prosperous, flourishing nation, but its under the grips of a group of outlaws called Hamas; and formerly the PLO.

PM Abdmez, he is a REAL Palestinian living in Jerusalem, he is thankful for the Israelis and does not feel oppressed; his children will go to college for free because of Israel's programs that fund minority students like Palestinians and Christian and Muslim Israelis.

I urge you to speak to bro. Abdmez, he knows the reality and things aren't as bad and extreme as some make it to be!

more contradictions from Dahir

Bravo keep it up :)


yeah also go purchase a ticket to the Occupied territories..and yes Dahir they are OCCUPIED ILLEGALLY..remember theres a WORLD CON-SEN-SUS on it..a WORLD CON-SEN-SUS (just making sure your brain DIGESTS this 'new' information (new to you I'm sure heh!)..go live there under CUR-FEWS...yes CUR-FEWS..go through CHECK-POINTS CHECK-POINTS..wait HOURS there..see the effects the ILLEGAL WALL is having on Palestinians...then comeback and lets see if you'll tell us you had a GREAT BALL!!:)

[Amazing Grace]

I hope you find this reply on point.

“There will be no peace among the nations without peace among the religions. There will be no peace among the religions without dialogue among the religions, and there will be no serious dialogue among the religions without common ethical standards"..... Hans Kung, Theologian

Somewhere along the path we independently came to the same conclusion as Hans Kung and formed a website, now in a pre-beta phase to promote and sustain an end to armed conflict by enabling willing religious people to encourage the leaders of their faiths to organize and engage in high profile global meetings to outline a set of jointly held beliefs common to all.

We call this new site Peace and Conflict Resolution.Org.

Many of us feel that that common Muslim, Jew, and Christian get along just fine in much of the world and its the religious leaders that lead their people wrong. We would like to see the religious leaders in high profile symbolic discussion searching for common ethical values. We don't want to change religious beliefs we want to change practices of our religious leaders.

What if 500-million Catholics, 400-million Protestants, 300-million Muslims, 100-million Hindu's and 500-million others from traditional religions around the globe called upon their religious leaders to commence symbolic, high level East-West dialogue to find shared global ethics? At some point in this process would not such a grand Tally (The Tally) become overwhelming and enlightening?

Eventually such a record could not be denied. You can help construct that record with a few clicks of your mouse and send your religious leaders a Note of Encouragement which offers the following:

My voice joins with hundreds of millions of voices to enable serious East-West dialog among religions.

We ask that you use your religious office to commence and sustain symbolic, high level dialogue among willing religions to find shared global ethics common to all faiths.

This note was commissioned by me to be sent to you by Peace and Conflict Resolution.org


Most of us have come to find good people of all faiths in our everyday life who are kind, good, and peaceful. They are people just like you. We are the peacemakers. We much help guide our religious leaders. We are responsible for the religious leadership over the long run.

While the people see the good in their fellow man and wonder why their own church can not, our religious leaders for any number of reasons often seem focused more on setting impossible, ancient preconditions to East-West dialog.

We are in a new era. The power of the internet enables you to enlighten religious leaders through your own inspired resolve. Your resolve is an act of love which can not be denied. Your "Note of Encouragement" politely guides religious leaders to do what must be done and undertake East-West dialog. Eventually "The Tally" will overcome those seemingly impossible ancient preconditions to East-West dialog.

P&CR

[searchingsoul]

more contradictions from Dahir

Bravo keep it up :)


yeah also go purchase a ticket to the Occupied territories..and yes Dahir they are OCCUPIED ILLEGALLY..remember theres a WORLD CON-SEN-SUS on it..a WORLD CON-SEN-SUS (just making sure your brain DIGESTS this 'new' information (new to you I'm sure heh!)..go live there under CUR-FEWS...yes CUR-FEWS..go through CHECK-POINTS CHECK-POINTS..wait HOURS there..see the effects the ILLEGAL WALL is having on Palestinians...then comeback and lets see if you'll tell us you had a GREAT BALL!!:)

I don't think Dahir or anyone is denying the checkpoints, curfews, and such. I don't recall anyone supporting such actions.

I think the focus needs to be shifted from the daily activities to the overall history and possible long-term effects.

[scentsofjannah]

I don't think Dahir or anyone is denying the checkpoints, curfews, and such. I don't recall anyone supporting such actions.

I think the focus needs to be shifted from the daily activities to the overall history and possible long-term effects.

he did ask ''what are the palestinians complaining about?''

Activities?? or Humanrights abuses?

*Checkpoints

*Curfews

*Roadblocks

*Collective punishment ie House Demolisions, cutting of the electricity and water supply.

* Uprooting of olive trees( reason given: Militants use it as cover) this is a crime against the farmers and the palestinian people and its also a crime against nature.

the focus should be on the PRESENT and FUTURE..not HISTORY as you suggested.

[scentsofjannah]

I hope you find this reply on point.

“There will be no peace among the nations without peace among the religions. There will be no peace among the religions without dialogue among the religions, and there will be no serious dialogue among the religions without common ethical standards"..... Hans Kung, Theologian

Somewhere along the path we independently came to the same conclusion as Hans Kung and formed a website, now in a pre-beta phase to promote and sustain an end to armed conflict by enabling willing religious people to encourage the leaders of their faiths to organize and engage in high profile global meetings to outline a set of jointly held beliefs common to all.

We call this new site Peace and Conflict Resolution.Org.


Many of us feel that that common Muslim, Jew, and Christian get along just fine in much of the world and its the religious leaders that lead their people wrong. We would like to see the religious leaders in high profile symbolic discussion searching for common ethical values. We don't want to change religious beliefs we want to change practices of our religious leaders.

What if 500-million Catholics, 400-million Protestants, 300-million Muslims, 100-million Hindu's and 500-million others from traditional religions around the globe called upon their religious leaders to commence symbolic, high level East-West dialogue to find shared global ethics? At some point in this process would not such a grand Tally (The Tally) become overwhelming and enlightening?

Eventually such a record could not be denied. You can help construct that record with a few clicks of your mouse and send your religious leaders a Note of Encouragement which offers the following:

My voice joins with hundreds of millions of voices to enable serious East-West dialog among religions.

We ask that you use your religious office to commence and sustain symbolic, high level dialogue among willing religions to find shared global ethics common to all faiths.

This note was commissioned by me to be sent to you by Peace and Conflict Resolution.org


Most of us have come to find good people of all faiths in our everyday life who are kind, good, and peaceful. They are people just like you. We are the peacemakers. We much help guide our religious leaders. We are responsible for the religious leadership over the long run.

While the people see the good in their fellow man and wonder why their own church can not, our religious leaders for any number of reasons often seem focused more on setting impossible, ancient preconditions to East-West dialog.

We are in a new era. The power of the internet enables you to enlighten religious leaders through your own inspired resolve. Your resolve is an act of love which can not be denied. Your "Note of Encouragement" politely guides religious leaders to do what must be done and undertake East-West dialog. Eventually "The Tally" will overcome those seemingly impossible ancient preconditions to East-West dialog.

P&CR

:thumbs_up God Bless you.

[searchingsoul]

he did ask ''what are the palestinians complaining about?''

Activities?? or Humanrights abuses?

*Checkpoints

*Curfews

*Roadblocks

*Collective punishment ie House Demolisions, cutting of the electricity and water supply.

* Uprooting of olive trees( reason given: Militants use it as cover) this is a crime against the farmers and the palestinian people and its also a crime against nature.

the focus should be on the PRESENT and FUTURE..not HISTORY as you suggested.

I think if they focus on the present they will just keep feeling sorry for themselves and never advance. That's why I suggest them taking a detailed look at their history, and applying it to their future.

[HeiGou]

he did ask ''what are the palestinians complaining about?''

Activities?? or Humanrights abuses?

*Checkpoints

*Curfews

*Roadblocks

*Collective punishment ie House Demolisions, cutting of the electricity and water supply.

* Uprooting of olive trees( reason given: Militants use it as cover) this is a crime against the farmers and the palestinian people and its also a crime against nature.

the focus should be on the PRESENT and FUTURE..not HISTORY as you suggested.

All of those are a response to one specific problem - suicide bombing and terrorism. In 1969 there was none of that. It may be naive of me but I think that the sensible way to get rid of all of those is to stop the terrorism. No doubt you do not agree. So my question would be - if you do not like the way that the Israelis defend themselves, could you please point out a viable alternative?

[Lamaggad]

All of those are a response to one specific problem - suicide bombing and terrorism. In 1969 there was none of that. It may be naive of me but I think that the sensible way to get rid of all of those is to stop the terrorism. No doubt you do not agree. So my question would be - if you do not like the way that the Israelis defend themselves, could you please point out a viable alternative?

it's funny how some ignorant turn every thing around against Palestinian...
i think some of you forgot that israel is the one who came to Palestine by violence and racist beliefs..!? israel came in 1947 by violence and powerful army..

• if their was no occupation, their would be no resistance from the Palestinian people
• if there was equal rights without separation and an adjust peace.. their would be no rejection for their false existence...
• if their was no abuses against Palestinian, their would be no resistance movements calling them self Hamas.
• if their would be no abuse against women and children whom are raped in their jails and killed in cold blood, there would be no martyrs bombers.
• if their would be no demolishing hundreds of houses every month for the sake of wiping the Arab backgrounds to replace it with zionists, their would be no more martyr bombers...
• if thier would be no Palestinian massacres, their would be no more more martyr bombers...
• if all that didn't stop, Palestinians wouldn't have voted for Hamas program...
• if all that crap didn't stop, people wouldn't STILL support Hamas who is DEFENDING THE PALESTINIANS RIGHTS.
• if all that crap didn't stop and if thier was no Arab prisoners (women, children and men) in the zionists jails, no body would come out to have an israeli prisoners whome is a soldier not civilian.
• if the same crap didn't happened in Lebanon, Hezb Allah wouldn't come out to have two israeli prisoners whome are soldiers not civilians.

curse on those criminals... there's no place for them in Palestine any more...
Palestinians will keep defending them selves FOREVER ... till the last Palestinian breath that is left in Palestine.

[searchingsoul]

[S]curse on those criminals... there's no place for them in Palestine any more...[/S]

Statements like these sound hopeless.

I did watch your video and found it well done and informative. They discuss joint efforts between israeli's and palestinians. This is always refreshing. I'm thinking that these people, who want peace and co-existence, are in the minority. I'm unsure. Would you happen to know?

[SirZubair]

If one side brought the True Teachings of ISLAM into their hearts, and the other side brought the true teachings of the Torah into their hearts, none of this would be happening.

It is the lack of Religon in 'religous' people that brings about such STUPIDITY.

[Dahir]

All of those are a response to one specific problem - suicide bombing and terrorism. In 1969 there was none of that. It may be naive of me but I think that the sensible way to get rid of all of those is to stop the terrorism. No doubt you do not agree. So my question would be - if you do not like the way that the Israelis defend themselves, could you please point out a viable alternative?

Bravo! Keltoi!

They just don't get it. Its like a deep hatred for Jews or Israelis, which I don't understand. Everyone poster who is a "Free Palestine" type is what we call a Chicken Hawk, and its not an insult. They are hawks who a thirsty for war and terrorism, but they chicken out and don't do any of the fighting...they watch it on CNN in their cozy Canadian homes.

Don't advocate war or terror if you won't fund it or participate.

Every time you ask for the destruction of Israel, a couple of Israeli youth die, I guess it doesn't matter - even that warmonger Nasrallah killed two Arab-Israeli boys doing what you guys advocated! Sick!!! +o( :offended:

WHY MUST I SAY THIS AGAIN:

Talk to bro. Abdmez!! He's a REAL Palestinian in the "thick of it." He's happy, has two smart, Israeli-educated kids whose college education will be funded by Israel! He is a gem in an area of confusion!

[mlsh27]

If one side brought the True Teachings of ISLAM into their hearts, and the other side brought the true teachings of the Torah into their hearts, none of this would be happening.

It is the lack of Religon in 'religous' people that brings about such STUPIDITY.

I agree. I think one of the reasons peace is like a bad word these days is because people forget the major values of their religions and focus on the very minute ones.

[Dahir]

If one side brought the True Teachings of ISLAM into their hearts, and the other side brought the true teachings of the Torah into their hearts, none of this would be happening.

It is the lack of Religon in 'religous' people that brings about such STUPIDITY.

True. True. True. What now, though? Wait for that religious rabbi or imam to teach the correct values? I wait. I wait.

[Lamaggad]

Talk to bro. Abdmez!! He's a REAL Palestinian in the "thick of it." He's happy, has two smart, Israeli-educated kids whose college education will be funded by Israel! He is a gem in an area of confusion!

those are cheap people who value the money of israel more than their dignity and Islamic values...
having israel supporting my education for the sake of buying my support to their terror against homeless Palestinian people... that i would not ever dare to do.

May Allah have mercy on those who think like that.

[SirZubair]

True. True. True. What now, though? Wait for that religious rabbi or imam to teach the correct values? I wait. I wait.

Join me and pray that ALlah swt blesses this Ummah with the HIKMA that we desire and the HIDAYAT that we all require.

[Dahir]

Join me and pray that ALlah swt blesses this Ummah with the HIKMA that we desire and the HIDAYAT that we all require.

Done. And DONE!

having israel supporting my education for the sake of buying my support to their terror against homeless Palestinian people... that i would not ever dare to do.

As a CANADIAN, you were never in that situation, so I can't really take your words for that sort of scenario. Abdmez is a good example, I'll stay loyal to his views and decisions.

[Lamaggad]

admins.. you can delete this post :)

[Lamaggad]

I watched the video. It's always encouraging to see both sides work together (rebuild, the 2,000 women protests). Do you think that those who work together are in the majority or minority?

either way... it doesn't matter, their voices should be heard in the media...

media is owned by minority of violence people whom are ruling the world and ruining it for their radical beliefs and discrimination Ideology towards Arabs and Muslims.

instead of keep showing the lies that they have about terrorism... why don't they show those peacefull voices instead...?!
this is the main question towards this documentary...

[I R Paki]

Peace is not possible because both sides have the wrong mentality, along with the majority of the world which seems to be including you, Lamaggad.

Partly true, apart from the statement against Lamaggad.

[HeiGou]

it's funny how some ignorant turn every thing around against Palestinian...

Yes. Who would have thought that suicide bombing is not the fault of the suicide bombers. You learn something new every day.

i think some of you forgot that israel is the one who came to Palestine by violence and racist beliefs..!? israel came in 1947 by violence and powerful army..

I do not forget that for one second. It is just not relevant. Of all the things listed, none of them existed in 1947, or 1957, or 1967, or even 1977. They are a response to suicide bombing.

if their was no occupation, their would be no resistance from the Palestinian people

How do you know that and anyway it is irrelevant to the issue at hand. There were no suicide bombs in 1969 but there was Occupation. Yet there were no check points like they have now. Suicide bombing has caused those security measures.

if there was equal rights without separation and an adjust peace.. their would be no rejection for their false existence...

And of course there would be no Jews either.

if their was no abuses against Palestinian, their would be no resistance movements calling them self Hamas.

And yet there were abuses in 1977 but no Hamas so that is not true either.

if their would be no abuse against women and children whom are raped in their jails and killed in cold blood, there would be no martyrs bombers.

Well that is not true as there were abuses against women and children - although I still do not accept there are rapes in jails except by the inmates - but no suicide bombs in 1970.

if their would be no demolishing hundreds of houses every month for the sake of wiping the Arab backgrounds to replace it with zionists, their would be no more martyr bombers...

Again you have that backwards - house demolitations punish suicide bombers so no suicide bombers, no house demolitions. Which came first?

if thier would be no Palestinian massacres, their would be no more more martyr bombers...

Nor is that true as there is no link between massacres (or "massacres") and suicide bombing.

if all that didn't stop, Palestinians wouldn't have voted for Hamas program...

How do you know?

curse on those criminals... there's no place for them in Palestine any more...
Palestinians will keep defending them selves FOREVER ... till the last Palestinian breath that is left in Palestine.

Well it has been a long standing Arab policy to drive the Jews into the sea - one that pre-dates suicide bombings, torture in prison, house demolition or even the creation of Israel so nothing has changed there.

As for the Palestinians, I think at some point the West is going to get tired of playing games.

[Hawa]

Yes. Who would have thought that suicide bombing is not the fault of the suicide bombers. You learn something new every day.

I honestly dont understand how an adult of sound mind can reason the way you do... suicide bombing be it wrong or right, happens for a reason...ask yourself what the hell would drive someone to strap themselves with explosives...I hate the way you think you can sit and judge everyone and everything that is closely related to Islam..if it really bothers you so much that muslims shed non-muslim blood I dare you to get off your fat arse and go join the bloody murderous Israeli pigs..go on..take your support up a notch why dont you..

As for the Palestinians, I think at some point the West is going to get tired of playing games.

You have the nerve to call this games? you do not live under oppression, you have not gone through anything remotely close to what Palestinian children go through everyday, I cannot call you ignorant you very well know what goes on..the whole world does, how long can everyone feign ignorance? you're right about one thing though, this will come to an end inshallah..
nothing lasts forever..even those oppressors who feel mighty as they shoot at civillians will face death sooner or later..and inshallah they will get their due when they're lowered into the very earth they used to spread mischief in...and inshallah you too will get yours.

[HeiGou]

I honestly dont understand how an adult of sound mind can reason the way you do... suicide bombing be it wrong or right, happens for a reason...ask yourself what the hell would drive someone to strap themselves with explosives...I hate the way you think you can sit and judge everyone and everything that is closely related to Islam..if it really bothers you so much that muslims shed non-muslim blood I dare you to get off your fat arse and go join the bloody murderous Israeli pigs..go on..take your support up a notch why dont you..

I do not know what it is but I do know it is not oppression. The East Timorese suffering vastly more than the Palestinians have but they did not strap explosives to themselves and blow themselves up in coffee shops.

How can an adult of sound mind argue whether suicide bombs aimed at children are wrong or right? And you criticise me.

Since when did suicide bombings become "closely related to Islam"? If I made that claim I would be banned. For years I did not see the Palestinians as my enemies and I worked for justice in the Middle East. But clearly they have decided they are my enemies. Do not blame me for that.

You have the nerve to call this games? you do not live under oppression, you have not gone through anything remotely close to what Palestinian children go through everyday, I cannot call you ignorant you very well know what goes on..the whole world does, how long can everyone feign ignorance? you're right about one thing though, this will come to an end inshallah..

For years this violence has gone on and the West has payed for Palestinians. They have paid for their schools, for their government, for their food. They sit in refugees camps because the West gives them money to do so. They have the highest birth rate in the world because the West pays for their children. If the West had not paid those camps would not exist and the Palestinians would have been absorbed into the Arab countries by now.

Ask yourself how long the West is going to go on giving money to Hamas while Hamas supports terrorism against the West.

nothing lasts forever..even those oppressors who feel mighty as they shoot at civillians will face death sooner or later..and inshallah they will get their due when they're lowered into the very earth they used to spread mischief in...and inshallah you too will get yours.

Sure. Unless of course we try for something new and different. Like a just solution in the Middle East that does not involve anyone being killed.

But no, the Palestinians have consistently preferred the easy violent option.

[scentsofjannah]

heigou working for peace? thats news to me..but I'm 100% certain you werent working for a JUST PEACE.

anyways why do seem to justify house bulldozing?

give me one good reason why israeli troops bulldoze entlire buldings thus making loads of palestinians homeless?

[HeiGou]

heigou working for peace? thats news to me..but I'm 100% certain you werent working for a JUST PEACE.

I protested in the streets demanding a return of all refugees. That is what I called a just peace. I have of course changed my mind.

anyways why do seem to justify house bulldozing?

I think that the West is at war with the Muslim world. It has become clear to me that this is a Clash of Civilisations. I think that house bulldozings are not nice, but they are better than cutting someone's throat and putting the video on the internet.

give me one good reason why israeli troops bulldoze entlire buldings thus making loads of palestinians homeless?

It is hard to punish suicide bombers. For some reason the Israelis think this is a way of punishing their families. How would you punish suicide bombers if Christians started doing it to Muslims?

[Hawa]

I do not know what it is but I do know it is not oppression. The East Timorese suffering vastly more than the Palestinians have but they did not strap explosives to themselves and blow themselves up in coffee shops.

How can an adult of sound mind argue whether suicide bombs aimed at children are wrong or right? And you criticise me.

You do have an answer to everything dont you? I did not say suicide bombing is closely related to Islam, I said that you Heigou despite being a constant in an Islamic forum hate everything and anything that is closely related to Islam. Thats the only reason why you argue about the Palestinian situation. You talk about the children killed by suicide bombers how about the thousand arab children killed over the past few decades, the past two weeks alone and hundreds of children have been targeted, all's fair in love and war, thats their policy... you obviously have no qualms about their actions yet you still stand here and criticise a hopeless nation that has no other way of defending itself against oppression...you argue of suicide bombing as if it occurs everyday, which side is more constant in their wrongdoings?

For years this violence has gone on and the West has payed for Palestinians. They have paid for their schools, for their government, for their food. They sit in refugees camps because the West gives them money to do so. They have the highest birth rate in the world because the West pays for their children. If the West had not paid those camps would not exist and the Palestinians would have been absorbed into the Arab countries by now.

Ask yourself how long the West is going to go on giving money to Hamas while Hamas supports terrorism against the West.

Sure. Unless of course we try for something new and different. Like a just solution in the Middle East that does not involve anyone being killed.

But no, the Palestinians have consistently preferred the easy violent option.

The west pays for refugee camps...you make it sound as if they're doing the Palestinians a favour! the west supports the very nation that put those Palestinians out of their homes and into refugee camps! No matter how you look at this Heigou theres only one criminal here and thats Israel! You can try and justify their actions as many times as you'de like, but thats the damn truth! With that attitude im not surprised the Palestinians didnt like you! and you speak of a just solution in the middle east...what a joke

[HeiGou]

You do have an answer to everything dont you?

Alas no but I would not believe what I believe without good reasons. At least to me.

I did not say suicide bombing is closely related to Islam, I said that you Heigou despite being a constant in an Islamic forum hate everything and anything that is closely related to Islam.

Despite? How about because? I came here in good faith but there is a constant drip of hatred. Now when it comes to Palestine I still think there is good reason for that. But the problem is still that hatred. As unpleasant as the Israeli are, they do not want to cut my throat. That makes them better in my eyes to Hamas.

Thats the only reason why you argue about the Palestinian situation. You talk about the children killed by suicide bombers how about the thousand arab children killed over the past few decades, the past two weeks alone and hundreds of children have been targeted, all's fair in love and war, thats their policy...

I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Israel targets children. Some children have died and that is terrible but there is no comparison between what a legal government does accidentally and what a bunch of terrorists do deliberately. I reject even the idea you could compare the two.

you obviously have no qualms about their actions yet you still stand here and criticise a hopeless nation that has no other way of defending itself against oppression...you argue of suicide bombing as if it occurs everyday, which side is more constant in their wrongdoings?

I disagree with that utterly. Palestinians have a wealth of options. They have consistently chosen the easy path of violence. As Abba Ebban once said, and God knows I appreciate the truth of it now, the Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. Let's compare them with the East Timorese who suffered vastly more dead than the Palestinians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_timor#The_Indonesians

From 1975 until 1993, attacks on civilian populations were only nominally reported in the Western press. Death tolls reported during the occupation varied from 60,000 to 200,000[3]. A detailed statistical report prepared for the Commission on Reception, Truth and Reconciliation of Timor-Leste cited a lower range of 102,800 conflict-related deaths in the period 1974-1999, namely, approximately 18,600 killings and 84,200 'excess' deaths from hunger and illness.[4] Since each data source used under-reports actual deaths, this is considered a minimum. Amnesty International estimated deaths at 200,000[

And there are only just under a million of them today.

By way of comparison just over 1100 Palestinians died in the first Intefada and over 4000 in the Second. So we are dealing with twenty times the casualty rate in a population one tenth the size.

Yet East Timor is free and Palestine is not. It is not that the East Timorese did not use violence, it is that they were smart and sought support in the West as well. Palestinians have tried this - and got the Oslo Accords - but they have rejected that as well.

The west pays for refugee camps...you make it sound as if they're doing the Palestinians a favour! the west supports the very nation that put those Palestinians out of their homes and into refugee camps! No matter how you look at this Heigou theres only one criminal here and thats Israel! You can try and justify their actions as many times as you'de like, but thats the damn truth! With that attitude im not surprised the Palestinians didnt like you! and you speak of a just solution in the middle east...what a joke

I agree that pushing those people into camps was wrong, but it was very nice of the West to fund and go on funding those camps. The Palestinian issue would be dead if they did not. You will notice I am very careful about which acts I defend and which I do not. That attitude is a result of them not liking me. People who hate me and my way of life cannot expect my support. I do not believe that any Just solution exists now. What is more I think that a victory for Hamas would endanger my life. They have made their choices. I have made mine.

[scentsofjannah]

Since you came on this board you have justified every wrong action of Israel

so you don't think any palestinians refugees have ANY right to return to their towns and villages

and you think Israel's house bulldozing is justfied.

I know why you are so pro-Israel no matter if what it does is right or wrong..its because of your intense loathing of Islam..the enemy of my enemy is my friend..you go by that motto.

btw are you chinese..? most chinese people ive met are good moral people..they dont sound anything like you ..(assuming you are indeed chinese)

if not then disregard the last paragraph.

[HeiGou]

Since you came on this board you have justified every wrong action of Israel

That is utterly not true.

so you don't think any palestinians refugees have ANY right to return to their towns and villages

Actually I do think they have a right to do so, it is just that implementing that right would mean the destruction of Israel. Which I could live with as it happens - except that any victory for the radicals would embolden them further. Islamic extremism must be defeated. It cannot be allowed to have a single victory anywhere in the world. Let the Muslims reject suicide bombs, reject violence and accept the possibility of co-existence with non-Muslims on the basis of equality, mutual respect and tolerance, and then I'll go back to defending the rights of the Palestinians. Why do you think I should help people murder me?

and you think Israel's house bulldozing is justfied.

I don't know where you get that from.

I know why you are so pro-Israel no matter if what it does is right or wrong..its because of your intense loathing of Islam..the enemy of my enemy is my friend..you go by that motto.

Not Islam, but the Islamic radicals. And yes, basically, as bad as Israel is Hamas, which claims the right to rule Europe, is worse. I'll side with Israel any day of the week.

btw are you chinese..? most chinese people ive met are good moral people..they dont sound anything like you ..(assuming you are indeed chinese)

And yet China does not have a problem with Islamic extremists because they just shoot anyone they think supports the radicals or terrorism. Why is it that there is such intense hatred of the West here? I can sort of understand why you do not care when hundreds of thousands of Muslims are killed by other Muslims, but do you have any idea what China does in Xinjiang?

[Hawa]

Despite? How about because? I came here in good faith but there is a constant drip of hatred. Now when it comes to Palestine I still think there is good reason for that. But the problem is still that hatred. As unpleasant as the Israeli are, they do not want to cut my throat. That makes them better in my eyes to Hamas.

do you honestly think you do not warrant the "constant drip of hatred"? NO the Israelis do not wish to cut your throat, they'de much rather brainwash you into supporting their criminal activities..Hamas on the other hand..oh yes forget about fighting for freedom lets go slit Heigou's throat... You seem to know a bit about the Palestinian situation tell me why was Hamas set up exactly?

I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Israel targets children. Some children have died and that is terrible but there is no comparison between what a legal government does accidentally and what a bunch of terrorists do deliberately. I reject even the idea you could compare the two.

A Red Cross doctor, Jacques de Reynier, chief representative of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Jerusalem gave a shocking account of the massacre in his official report.
De Reynier arrived at the village on the second day and saw “the mopping up,” as one of the Israeli terrorists put it to him. It had been done with machine guns, then grenades, and was finished off with knives. The Jews decapitated some of the victims and fatally maimed 52 children in sight of their mothers. They cut open 25 pregnant women’s wombs and butchered the babies in front of them.
Israelis present at Deir Yassin have confirmed these atrocities.

this is an example of those "accidents" you speak of..theres no comparing what a few suicide bombers can do against what an entire army of criminals are doing in a daily basis.. you just cannot compare the two!

I disagree with that utterly. Palestinians have a wealth of options. They have consistently chosen the easy path of violence. As Abba Ebban once said, and God knows I appreciate the truth of it now, the Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. Let's compare them with the East Timorese who suffered vastly more dead than the Palestinians

a wealth of options = leave your land. I guess the Palestinians should be grateful their situation no matter how awful, is much better than the East Timorese..they should celebrate should they?

Yet East Timor is free and Palestine is not.

finally some truth from you, they arent free...ok great, the International community is doing nothing to help them..how on earth are they expected to sit and not retaliate against the Israelis?

It is not that the East Timorese did not use violence, it is that they were smart and sought support in the West as well.

The west is out to look for their own best interest..and that lies in Israel, this problem has been going on for decades and decades if indeed the west was interested in peace in the middle east a solution would have been found a long time ago.

What is more I think that a victory for Hamas would endanger my life. They have made their choices. I have made mine.

see for yourself..
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspo...-yourself.html

Israel has made its choice and yours is to support them. good luck

[HeiGou]

do you honestly think you do not warrant the "constant drip of hatred"? NO the Israelis do not wish to cut your throat, they'de much rather brainwash you into supporting their criminal activities..Hamas on the other hand..oh yes forget about fighting for freedom lets go slit Heigou's throat... You seem to know a bit about the Palestinian situation tell me why was Hamas set up exactly?

No I do not. I look at the 7-7 bombs and I cannot see any justification for them at all. I look at a lot of the violence in Iraq and I cannot see any justification at all. I have not been brainwashed by Israel. I have spent most of my adult life opposing everything they do. But their enemies have chosen to be my enemies. I realise that Hamas is fighting for freedom but that is not all they are fighting for. They want to rule the West too. They think they will. My support for their freedom stops at my enslavement. Hamas was set up to push for an Islamic state and to weaken the PLO - or at least that last one is why the Israelis funded it. What's your point?

You demonstrate it is safe for me to support the Palestinian cause and I will support it again.

this is an example of those "accidents" you speak of..theres no comparing what a few suicide bombers can do against what an entire army of criminals are doing in a daily basis.. you just cannot compare the two!

So you have to reach back to 1947 to find an example of Jewish fighters killing children? Please correct me if I am wrong. Daily basis? Not for some time.

a wealth of options = leave your land. I guess the Palestinians should be grateful their situation no matter how awful, is much better than the East Timorese..they should celebrate should they?

That is one option which many took in 1948. I would not recommend it myself. I think that supporters of the Palestinian cause ought to have a sense of proportion, but even that is not important. They need to ask themselves not if what they are doing is right, because justification can always be found, but if it is effective - will it work. It has for the East Timorese. I don't see it working for the Palestinians just yet.

finally some truth from you, they arent free...ok great, the International community is doing nothing to help them..how on earth are they expected to sit and not retaliate against the Israelis?

The International community is doing a lot for them - giving them vast amounts of money for one thing. Supporting Palestinian statehood for another. Forcing Israel to take part in the Oslo accords for another. But now that is all gone. Blown up on 9-11. What makes you think there are only two options - nothing or "retaliation"? There are a host of other alternatives some of which might work. Even if you opt for the retaliation, why pick the method supported by al-Qaeda? Everyone thinks there is no difference now. Even if you want to carry out suicide attacks, why burn every single bridge with the West you can? The Palestinians have painted themselves into a corner. Don't blame me for that.

The west is out to look for their own best interest..and that lies in Israel, this problem has been going on for decades and decades if indeed the west was interested in peace in the middle east a solution would have been found a long time ago.

But it doesn't. Israel gives the West nothing but headaches. There is no interest there. It takes two to make peace. You cannot deny that the West was putting pressure on Israel. The West, especially the Europeans, had decided that the Palestinians needed a state. There was a process underway that would have given them one too. But of course Islamic radicalism killed that idea.

Israel has made its choice and yours is to support them. good luck

Indeed. But in a Clash of Civilisations there is no choice. Besides, I would rather Hezbollah killed people in Galilee than in London.

[Amazing Grace]

Dear Holiness,

The Catholic Community Forum has been the most tolerant and patient with me and that gives me great hope that it is reflective and continues to be reflective of the church. I have posted the following discussion on the Catholic Community Forum at: http://www.catholic-forum.com/forums...5838#post85838

CCF:

Thank you for your guidance and patience as I am truly grappling with the enormity and power of the question I posed. No doubt I error in so many ways. It burdens my heart to ponder these weighty questions and saddens me greatly to pose them publicly.


What if the flaw in all our responses, including the responses of the church, is to grasp so tightly to the shelter and safety and comfort of our own dogma that even the church itself can not be in the world with outsiders to our faith, ever?



What do I mean by this, "even the church itself can not be in the world with outsiders to our faith, ever?"



Help me know my errors.



Tasking the church at the highest level, tasking the Pope himself from, may I refer to this task as the Great Encouragement?



Here is the enormity of this depressing question. When the power of the website itself begins forth thousands, then tens of thousands, then millions, then tens of millions, then billions of similar responses in sending in Notes of Encouragement to religious leaders, the church then is faced with a choice. How the church reacts to that choice is the question.



What preconditions must be satisfied to enable the church to accept the enormous task encouraged upon it by the petition raised through the website?



His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI has laid out one level of guidance which helps, "spiritual emulation, " respectful of each one's identity and more united in the service of common good"



In the interest of the "common good" referred to by Pope, may I extrapolate?



The Muslim will enter such discussions for the common good with the predisposition of understanding which he will be certain of, that Christ (may his name be praised) has not been proven divine and perhaps also the Muslim will feel the Holy Trinity makes no sense; it is the Christian that must come to change.


The Christian will enter such discussions for the common good with the predisposition of understanding which he will be certain of, that Mohammad (may his name be praised) has not enabled a religion of love, that he was a sinner of the highest order, a mortal spirit; it is the Muslim that must come to change.


If our Christian faith is a faith based on love, then isn't our required response posed by the enormity of the question and the task posed through the Great Encouragement, to forgive the Muslim and accept him as our brother, and treat him as such, for the common good?



I have come to the conclusion that God's larger plan for man is to recognize the good in each other and work with that. I guess the question I ask is simply, if I can do this, if billions of other ordinary people can do this, then can and will the Pope speak for this man (me) and do this too?

Rich Buckley
A visiting Methodist
Livermore, CA

[Hawa]

Heigou.. it seems we'll go at this for a very long time. You seem to think highly of yourself if you really believe anyone actually views you as an enemy worthy of being "enslaved", Hamas are otherwise occupied with more important stuff. Desperate times calls for desperate measures..you may sit in the comfort of your own home and judge their actions it will not change a damn thing.. war will continue in the middle east, more blood will be shed and more than likely it will be muslim blood.

[searchingsoul]

They have the highest birth rate in the world because the West pays for their children. If the West had not paid those camps would not exist and the Palestinians would have been absorbed into the Arab countries by now.

IMO this is clearly wrong!+o( +o( +o(

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Lamaggad,,the majority of the Ummah is always with our brother and sister.

those hyprocrites say "we are only working for peace,but theya re the mischeif maker"

Inshallah we shall all be acoutnable for our action.

Allah is the MOST JUST.

I declare that there is no god BUT ALLAH and Muhammad saw is a Prophet.

[Skillganon]

Salaam,

Lamaggad,,the majority of the Ummah is always with our brother and sister.

those hyprocrites say "we are only working for peace,but theya re the mischeif maker"

Inshallah we shall all be acoutnable for our action.

Allah is the MOST JUST.

I declare that there is no god BUT ALLAH and Muhammad saw is a Prophet.

Ameen.

IS their a second part to the video?