Waseela?

[al-fateh]

I have been discussing the subject of using "waseela" while supplicating to Allah (swt) with some Muslims, and have come to know that there are quite different opinions about fact whether the use of "waseela" in duaa is halaal or haraam. Could you please provide me with some information about this subject, some ayaat from the Holy Qur'an or authentic ahaadeeth? With the term "use of waseela" I mean asking via the agency of someone, fx "I ask You (O Allah) to grant me forgiveness via the agency of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him and his household)" or via the agency of other Prophets (Peace be upon them), saints or other pious Muslims.

would like to know the answer to this please...

[chacha_jalebi]

salaam

why call upon others, like say Allah (swt) forgive me for the sake of RasoolAllah (saw), if you have displeased Allah (swt) then you have displeased RasoolAllah (saw) so why ask to forgive you for sake of RasoolAllah (saw). if Allah (swt) wants to give you summin, he will give it and theres no need 2 do a waseela of ne1, cos thats dum, its like settin up partners with Allah (swt), did RasoolAllah (saw) ever ask for someones waseela? NO NO NO :D:D:D:D he dint

so we shouldnt either

in the Quran it says in many places that callin upon others or usin the waseela of someone is wrong, i.e in surah fatiha - "iyaka na budu wa iyaka nas ta eeen" - u alone we worship, u alone we ask for help, and surah Fatiha we read dat everyday, bbut still some peeps do waseelas :heated:

also many people use the waseela of people that have passed away. in the Quran it says in surah Nahl v20-21

All the other beings, whom the people invoke with Allah, create nothing! Nay, they are themselves created! They are DEAD, not living, and they do not at all know themselves when they shall again be raised to life

so blatantly you cant doo that, BUT IF THE GOOD PIOUS PERSON IS ALIVE, then you can do waseela fru them, i.e in a hadiths in bukhari, Hadhrat Umar (ra) asked for rain through RasoolAllah (saw) ONLY COS RASOOLALLAH (saw) was alive, but to ask for waseela through a dead person is a NO NO NO :D:D:D

also callin upon certain heavy people is gona backfire on ya :p cos in surah ahqaf it says ..

And who is more astray than one who invokes, besides Allah, such as will not answer him to the day of judgment, and who are unconscious of their call?
And when mankind are gathered together at the resurrection, they will be hostile to them and reject their worship!


so the people who invoke others & try 2 use der waseela, them people will turn agenst d people who invoke upon them :p :D:D:D mashallah

and theres so so so so much verses which warn againist it, because it is shirk :D:D:D:D

hope dat helps :D:D:D

[Mawaddah]

First of All......this is called Tawassul

In Islaam there are 3 types of Tawassul

1. Tawassul thru our Good Deeds,(At-Tawassul bil 3amal as-Saalih)This is allowed and the Daleel for this is the hadeeth in which the three men were trapped in the Cave and they each did Tawassul to Allah thru their Good Deeds. I hope everyone knows this hadeeth yes?

2. Tawassul thru a righteous (living) person. (At-Tawassul Bir Rajul As-Saalih) Daleel for this is clear in Many hadeeth in which the Sahabahs used to come to Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa sallam and ask him to make Du'a for them.

3.Tawassul thru a righteous Wali or the other who is no longer living, for example we say " O Allah I ask you with the Virtue of Your Prophet" . This type of Tawassul is Haraam without any doubt because in this case we would be seeking help thru a person who is not capable of doing such a deed. In other words this type of Tawassul is Shirk.

The type of Tawassul which you mentioned in your first post Brother, is more closer to the third type of Tawassul, and this is Shirk and Haram....

Hope I helped insha'allah.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

On the point of using the Prophet's Status in your Dua has no connection whatsoever with your Dua. Its like going to a king and saying, "By the status your son has with you, can you give me so and so?" or a beggar coming to you and asking you: "By the status your wife has with you, give me so and so".

It is completely irrelevant to mention the Prophet or any other person in your Dua (i.e. to use their status or rank) in order to get your Dua to be accepted.

Allah says:

Surah Baqarah: 186. And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad

) concerning Me, then (answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright.

Surah Ghafir: 60. And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, [i.e. believe in My Oneness (Islâmic Monotheism)] (and ask Me for anything) I will respond to your (invocation). Verily! Those who scorn My worship [i.e. do not invoke Me, and do not believe in My Oneness, (Islâmic Monotheism)] they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!"

That is why there is no need to go through anyone or anything to get your Dua heard and accepted. That is the beauty of Islam. One person can ask Allah directly and be sure that sooner or later Allah will indeed to respond to his Dua.

:w:

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[Muslim Soldier]

3.Tawassul thru a righteous Wali or the other who is no longer living, for example we say " O Allah I ask you with the Virtue of Your Prophet" . This type of Tawassul is Haraam without any doubt because in this case we would be seeking help thru a person who is not capable of doing such a deed. In other words this type of Tawassul is Shirk.

The type of Tawassul which you mentioned in your first post Brother, is more closer to the third type of Tawassul, and this is Shirk and Haram....

Hope I helped insha'allah.

I dont think so. If I say O Allah for your love of the Prophet ...
How is it shirk?

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Types of tawassul and which are permissible?
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?pg...glist=0&ln=eng


:wasalamex

[Malaikah]

:sl:

I dont think so. If I say O Allah for your love of the Prophet ...
How is it shirk?

:sl:

i dont really know much about this, but what does the prophets goodness have anything to do with the person making the dua in the first place?! someone else did the good deeds and becuase someonelese did good u want to ask for something for yourself via his good deeds? doesnt make sense.. :?

[Muslim Soldier]

Eg.

I got bad marks in my exam. I fear for my mistake. I dont tell my dad coz he might get angry. So I go to mum and tell mum to tell dad knowing she 'll softem dad a bit.

Same with tawassul. I go to allah through the prophet. I know that the prophet DOES NOT have the power to do it. It is Allah with the ability. But the prophet is a just a middle man.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

The fallacity with your arguement is that you think that the Prophet (saw) can hear you. He cannot, as he is in the life of the Barzakh which is completely cut off from this life. He cannot hear anything. He recieves the Salam of people because an angel takes it to him as narrated in the hadith.

:w:

[Muslim Soldier]

:sl:

The fallacity with your arguement is that you think that the Prophet (saw) can hear you. He cannot, as he is in the life of the Barzakh which is completely cut off from this life. He cannot hear anything. He recieves the Salam of people because an angel takes it to him as narrated in the hadith.

:w:

He recieves my salam.
But the angel does not give him my msg?

And who says that the prophet cant hear?

[S_87]

He recieves my salam.
But the angel does not give him my msg?

And who says that the prophet cant hear?

:sl:

where does it say Muhammed :arabic5: CAN hear?

[Muslim Soldier]

Can living people NOT hear?

"And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;"

And please answer my question.

who says that the prophet cant hear?

[S_87]

:sl:

The basic principle concerning the dead is that they do not hear the words of the living sons of Adam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“but you cannot make hear those who are in graves”

[Faatir 35:22]

[thc]

Asalamu alaikum warahmatullhi wabaraktuhu

There is a hadith which states that the angels carry salaam to the prophet (sallahu alahi wasallim) and he (sallahu alahi wasallim) replies.

Sorry i do not have the reference.

[- Qatada -]

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say): "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful. (Qur'an 39:03)


And who is more astray than one who invokes besides Allah, such as will not answer him to the Day of Judgment, and who (in fact) are unconscious of their call (to them)? (46:5)


And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer): but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell - in humiliation!" (40:60)

Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

[Muslim Soldier]

:sl:

The basic principle concerning the dead is that they do not hear the words of the living sons of Adam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“but you cannot make hear those who are in graves”

[Faatir 35:22]

. Nor are the living equal with the dead . Lo! Allah maketh whom He will to hear . Thou canst not reach those who are in the graves .

The verse mentions that Allah can enable whom HE wishes to hear.
We can not reach to people in the grave.

The verse does not mention that the dead CAN NOT HEAR!

Furthermore who says the prophet is dead?
In Sura Al-Baqarah 2:154
“And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive”
Even in Sura Ale-Imran 3:169 conveys the similar message as follows,
“And reckon not those who are killed in Allah’s way as dead; nay, they are alive ……......”

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

And who is more astray than one who invokes besides Allah, such as will not answer him to the Day of Judgment, and who (in fact) are unconscious of their call (to them)? (46:5)


And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer): but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell - in humiliation!" (40:60)

:wasalamex

[Muslim Soldier]

Regarding the dead to be able to hear on Allah's command,

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 317:
Narrated Ibn Umar:
The Prophet stood at the well of Badr (which contained the corpses of the pagans) and said, "Have you found true what your lord promised you?" Then he further said, "They now hear what I say."

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say): "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful. (Qur'an 39:03)

During tawassul process, one does not take a protector besides Allah. To do so is an act of shirk. Tawassaul is not about taking protectors besides Allah.

And who is more astray than one who invokes besides Allah, such as will not answer him to the Day of Judgment, and who (in fact) are unconscious of their call (to them)? (46:5)

One doesnt invoke the prophet besides Allah, but invokes Allah through the prophet.

Volume 8, Book 75, Number 317o:

Narrated Anas:

that the Prophet said, "For every prophet there is an invocation that surely will be responded by Allah," (or said), "For every prophet there was an invocation with which he appealed to Allah, and his invocation was accepted (in his lifetime), but I kept my (this special) invocation to intercede for my followers on the Day of Resurrection."

And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer): but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell - in humiliation!" (40:60)

One calls Allah, no other, but through the prophet.

[Muslim Soldier]

And who is more astray than one who invokes besides Allah, such as will not answer him to the Day of Judgment, and who (in fact) are unconscious of their call (to them)? (46:5)

I answered this in my previous post. Let me do so again

Volume 8, Book 75, Number 317o:
Narrated Anas:

that the Prophet said, "For every prophet there is an invocation that surely will be responded by Allah," (or said), "For every prophet there was an invocation with which he appealed to Allah, and his invocation was accepted (in his lifetime), but I kept my (this special) invocation to intercede for my followers on the Day of Resurrection."

[S_87]

:sl:

big point ON THE DAY OF RESURRECTION. no one is denying Muhammed :arabic5: can interecede on the day of judgement???

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

This has been discussed with you earlier and the proofs have already been established that you cannot call on any besides Allah. Please refer back to this thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...an-allah.html?

Particularly this post:

http://www.islamicboard.com/298311-post131.html

Finally, I invite you again to read this thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...n-tawheed.html

:w:

:threadclo