Women going out shopping

[madeenahsh]

Women going out shopping



Question: Me and my wife go out to the market to buy necessary items for her or the house, and she comes out with me completely covered, and all praise is due to Allaah (alone), and she does not speak to any of the traders (shop owners and assistants). So is there any sin in her coming out (like this) or not? (Please) advise me.

Response: There is no harm in a woman going out to buy necessary items from the market if she has no-one who is able to do this on her behalf, so long as she is completely covered and remains away from mixing with the men and unnecessarily talking to them. And if she has a man from amongst her mahrams with her, then that is more complete and better.

However, if there is someone who can buy these necessary items on her behalf, then there is no need for her to go out for that which exists therein of fitnah and danger, especially in this day and age in which fitnah has increased and humility and mutual respect has decreased - except upon those whom Allaah has shown Mercy to. So it is obligatory for a woman to remain in her home as much as she is able to, as He (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala) says:

{And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance…}, Soorah al-Ahzaab, Aayah 33

http://www.fatwa-online.com

Shaykh Ibn Fowzaan
al-Muntaqaa min Fataawa Shaykh Saalih al-Fowzaan - Volume 3, Page 294, Fatwa No.430

[IbnAbdulHakim]

beautiful:thumbs_up its best for women to protect themselves and be protected

yes its worrying in this day and age with all the hate in this dunya. I worry about my sisters a lot :(

[afriend]

So women should be locked up inside their homes UNLESS it's for something they need.....Never go to have a bit of leisure time [in limits] or something like that.....perhaps that's how it is in Saudi, but there is no harm if a woman covers herself and walks the streets with modesty to go somewhere nice......That should be suspected over??

All I can say is some people are shadeed to the point where there are no limits....

A woman is a human being for God's sake! Islam is the liberator of women...By keeping them locked up in their homes is no liberation.....And I KNOW islam is definately not unreasonable......

[IbnAbdulHakim]

no no iqram you misunderstand. We're saying its best to be careful in these fitnah infested times. The other day i went out and some dude wanted to play wiv my ball (FOOTBALL BEFORE U GET IDEAS :anger:), well i wouldnt restrict my sister from goin out if she wants to but i wud advise her to go out as less as possible and im actually 100% if i tell her the reason she wud agree.


NO OPPRESSION IN ISLAm and iqram, u gotta chill bro :p

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[lolwatever]

^^ lol i don't think that's what the sis was trying to imply bro iq.. she's a sis too so i think she understands it better than we do :p

I dunno but isn't shopping and all that suppose to be part of teh husband's job under "fetching the rizq for the family"? The wife shouldn't be forced into doing his job as far as that's concerned...

as far as being locked away.. lol that's deffo not the point of that...

salamz

[afriend]

no no iqram you misunderstand. We're saying its best to be careful in these fitnah infested times. The other day i went out and some dude wanted to play wiv my ball (FOOTBALL BEFORE U GET IDEAS :anger:), well i wouldnt restrict my sister from goin out if she wants to but i wud advise her to go out as less as possible and im actually 100% if i tell her the reason she wud agree.

yeah I get you bro :)

NO OPPRESSION IN ISLAm and iqram, u gotta chill bro :p

Yeah I know :hiding: :enough!: :raging:

[mlsh27]

If I left my husband to shop for my food, clothes, etc....I would be scared! Men are the hunters, women are the gatherers.

[Umm Yoosuf]

It is not matter of locking up women in their houses. It is a matter of them following the commandment of the Quran.

And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance…, Soorah al-Ahzaab, Aayah 33

If it is necessary for the sister to go out then she can do so! She has ever right. But she should not make a display of herself and cause fitnah…

:)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

If I left my husband to shop for my food, clothes, etc....I would be scared! Men are the hunters, women are the gatherers.

lol wat do we hunt :?

[afriend]

they should keep themselves from temptations and theyre the weaker sex physically. its easier to overpower them

I bet I know millions of women who can leave you scarred for life

No space for sexism here

[mlsh27]

they should keep themselves from temptations and theyre the weaker sex physically. its easier to overpower them

My father taught me all throughout my childhood and teenage years how to defend myself and ways to hurt men easily.

[lolwatever]

I bet I know millions of women who can leave you scarred for life

^^ LOL ;D

[mlsh27]

good luck to you but when it comes down to being attacked you at a disadvantage with most men. its a fact of life

How do you know I am at a disadvantage? You don't know my weight, height, or strength...

[umm-sulaim]

I'm so glad you put that up sis madeenahsh...lol..!
Aisha rahiyaAllahu anhu narrated "kunna nisaa yakhrujna li 7awaaijihinnna"
women used to leave their homes for their needs. muslim.
Its just really bad when some people misinterpret the ayaat and go to extreme lengths!
yes sis Al-mu'minah, what you said is what ahlul 3ilm say too...mashaAllah!!
Thanks for your lovely faaa'idah ukhtee madeenahsh!

wassalaam

[afriend]

{And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance…}, Soorah al-Ahzaab, Aayah 33

"And stay in your houses" Could have several meanings, we can't just take the Quraan word for word, there is something called 'tafseer'.

"and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance"

The women of the times of the jaahilliyyah were like magnets, they were south, and the men were north....Compare them to what our sisters wear outside these days.....Subhanallah!

Our sisters have much to be proud of, they deserve every last ounce of respect from the world.

PS watch out, we have many sexists on this forum.....

[Helena]

interesting thread sis...

yeah alhamdulilah women are allowed to go out and not be locked in da house/ and be prisoners in der own house.... as some ppl view islam as....astagfirullah...utterly wrong....

islam def shows equality between men and women in the eyes of Allah(swt) but we have differences in roles, responsiblities, etc....

inshalah we shud protect ourselves when we go out...rather then displaying ourselves amongst the world....

[afriend]

theres a difference between going out for there needs and there pleasure

What's wrong with going out for their pleasure? [within limits and boundaries Allah has placed for them]

[umm-sulaim]

yes i know, but i was referring to those who make the women stay at home regardless....and there are many that do this...
going out for pleasure and pass time is called tabarrruj....thats not allowed i'm aware of that alhamdulillah

wassalaam

[umm-sulaim]

"And stay in your houses" Could have several meanings, we can't just take the Quraan word for word, there is something called 'tafseer'.

"and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance"

The women of the times of the jaahilliyyah were like magnets, they were south, and the men were north....Compare them to what our sisters wear outside these days.....Subhanallah!

Our sisters have much to be proud of, they deserve every last ounce of respect from the world.

PS watch out, we have many sexists on this forum.....

BaarkaAllahu feek ukhayy!!!

wassalaam

[afriend]

BaarkaAllahu feek ukhayy!!!

wassalaam

hehehe.....yeah....Come up with something against that.....Come on Husamlalalalalalala........

Oooohhhh Victory is sweet ;)

[ameen]

salam,

it's such a disgrace how the so-called mufti and some members in this thread cropped that verse out of context and decided to HIDE the previous lines of the verse - which clearly was addressing specifically the wives of the Prophet.

this is what the mufti does, just feeds you the part that he desires, and conceals the truth. and you are equally misguided if you follow blindly.

 

[Looking4Peace]

^^^ i have more muscles then all the men here, they would be my victims

[afriend]

salam,

it's such a disgrace how the so-called mufti and some members in this thread cropped that verse out of context and decided to HIDE the previous lines of the verse - which clearly was addressing specifically the wives of the Prophet.

this is what the mufti does, just feeds you the part that he desires, and conceals the truth. and you would be equally misguided for following blindly.

:hiding: why didn't I research this deeper......

yathaabaki [i'm guessing] Allah!

Sis, i'm all out of reps.....

[mlsh27]

ur right. u may be one rare exception:p

The majority of women I know, and all of the women in my family can all protect themselves physically.

[afriend]

The majority of women I know, and all of the women in my family can all protect themselves physically.

yeah, and so you should.....

I say all u sisters shud give HusamLala a demonstration down in Chicago ;)

[umm-sulaim]

hehehe.....yeah....Come up with something against that.....Come on Husamlalalalalalala........

Oooohhhh Victory is sweet ;)

;D .....

[umm-sulaim]

True true....
and i understand fully well what you're saying but some men are too extreme!

Give women their right they wouldn't have to complain...lol thats what i say!
( i mean their rights from the deen of course)
wassalaam

[Umm Yoosuf]

salam,

it's such a disgrace how the so-called mufti and some members in this thread cropped that verse out of context and decided to HIDE the previous lines of the verse - which clearly was addressing specifically the wives of the Prophet.

this is what the mufti does, just feeds you the part that he desires, and conceals the truth. and you are equally misguided if you follow blindly..

“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salaah (Iqamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah and obey Allaah and His Messenger. Allaah wishes only to remove Ar-Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet), and to purify you with a thorough purification”
[al-Ahzaab 33:33]

Do not accuse the sheikh of something his innocent of and do not accuse us of blind following.

The Ayaah indeed is addressed to the mothers of the believers but we too should take heed and follow it.

Allah fixed the natural place for the woman to worship and obey Allah, considering the household jobs will be the best duty to be undertaken by the woman in the world life. This is contrary to man who is required by nature to work and keep performing prayers in the mosque. Moreover, man, and not the woman, is the one who has to move freely to earn living.

[umm-sulaim]

Also the ayaah of staying at home was sent down to the prohets wives, but the 7ukm ruling includes us...
People of knowledge have a rule in the studies of usool they say the "al-asl al 3umuum ill maa khussis"

the basis of eveything is generalisation , except for that which has been specified...

wassalaam

[lolwatever]

jazakilah khayr sis..

might also add.. just because verses where revealed to particular people, doesn't imply we don't derive lessons from them and apply them to ourselves...

The verses regarding al-ifk where on specific people and regarding aisha.. that doesnt imply we don't derive principles that we apply on ourselves... that's a very naive mentality.. in fact most legal verses where revealed to handle specific situations, but becasue of those situations and people we derive rules that apply to the Ummah as a whole..

salams

[lolwatever]

^^ isn't that only if they're travelling they need a mahram?

i guess even men today need someone to accompany him wherever they go, coz of all the temptation n stuff :heated:

[umm-sulaim]

wa iyyaak lolwatever, thats what i thought too, didn't know they needed to be accompanied elsewhere?

wassalaam

[Les_Nubian]

Oh wow, so a woman isn't even aloud to step out of the house?

So what if she wants to have a life? Like maybe...a job or a career? A passion in life? Art? Nursing? Computers? Journalism? Writing? Etcetera?

What about visiting art galleries? Seeing plays? Shopping for clothes & other things? Taking a walk outside and smelling some fresh, God-made air? Interacting with other human beings? Enjoying life?!

:/


Oh yes, and what about women who have absolutely no "male" company whatsoever? I am not married, I have no father, and my brother is away in college. So since I'm not married I'm aloud to go out or something? I'm confused, lol.

[lolwatever]

lol sis

There's a difference between 'not allowed to step out of the house' and being encouraged to minimise going out for no reason.....

personall i think some sis's have this inferiority complex where they think that the only way to be 'accepted' in society is to have a job and do what a man does... i think that's very childish and foolish and shows alot of low self-esteem.

It's funny how the responsibility of managing the household is so huge, and the responsibilty of looking after the kids and bringing them up is a complex thing in itself, yet for some reason some people seem to underestimate it and think it's more improtant to be a male copy cat...

Now.. having said that:

So what if she wants to have a life? Like maybe...a job or a career? A passion in life? Art? Nursing? Computers? Journalism? Writing? Etcetera?

If the husband is struggling and not bringing in enough cash to take care of the family's needs n wants... and if the wife is happy to help out financially (because it's her right to keep her earnings and tell the husband to do the family expenditure)... then by all means, so long as the job is OK islamically (same goes for guys btw!)

If the husband is managing the financial side well... the first priority for the wife is to make sure the household is under good care, the kids are being educated properly and brought up properly etc.

If that responsibility is being fulfilled, and the wife wants to take on some form of commerce, by all means... Even though i find that hard to imagine, coz alot of sisters do find taking care of the house a massive load in itself. But if there's no kids n things like that.. yeh as long as what she's diong is halal.

What about visiting art galleries? Seeing plays? Shopping for clothes & other things? Taking a walk outside and smelling some fresh, God-made air? Interacting with other human beings? Enjoying life?!

The first two are probably prohibited for both sexes in general lol.

The last 3 things, who said sister's cant go catchup with their friends and go out to places and stuff... the whole thing about encouragemetn for women to remain at home is basically "dont just go out for no reasonable reason"...

Oh yes, and what about women who have absolutely no "male" company whatsoever? I am not married, I have no father, and my brother is away in college. So since I'm not married I'm aloud to go out or something? I'm confused, lol.

If you're not marreid and you don't have responsibilities, fine go ahead and be like Khadijah if you want, or Hend (Abu Sufyan's wife) when she got divorced... (They where both biz people and very successful at it) the key thing is, make sure it's all under Islamic guidelines...

but to get back to the topic...

The wife has her responsibilities, the husband has his responsibilities, technically speaking, it's the husband's job to go out and do the shopping and all that... the wife's got a tonne of thigns to do, why should she be burdened with that? If she says to the husband "look i've got enough on my plate, you can take care of that" it's absolutely her right.

salams

[Les_Nubian]

Thanks lolwhatever.

I found this little quote from a longer article (http://www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/women.html) to be helpful:

"Towards her husband, a Muslim lady is friend, lover, advisor confidante, help-mate, and supervisor of his home. She is this way, because she her husband will obey the command from Almighty God to love, maintain, and protect her at all cost. Men are protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. (Surah an-Nissaa:34). Because she has been given the assurance that she will be maintained, a Muslim lady does not have to go out to work; rather she can stay home and care for her family, which is her main responsibility. However, if she chooses to work, in the home or out, she may do so and is she chooses to aid her family financially, she may also do so, obtaining thereby Allahs blessings. Yet if she chooses not to aid financially, Allah has stated in the Holy Quran to women what they earn and to men what they earn. Since it is not the responsibility of a woman to maintain her family she does not have to do so, nor give any money to her family. And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display of yourselves like that of the former times of ignorance. (Surah Ahzab:33). O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters and believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad). (Surah Ahzab:59). Islam encourages that Muslim ladies stay home and tend to their families. However, it does not mean that ladies cannot go out for business, for family needs, for society needs, or just socially visiting family and friends. If Muslim ladies expected to only stay in the home, there would not have been rules and guidelines on how to dress and conduct oneself outside of the home. According to traditions of the Holy Last Messenger (s.a.s.), women receive many blessings for being home, yet she may leave her home for various reasons, and not incur Allah's displeasure. "

[ameen]

The Ayaah indeed is addressed to the mothers of the believers but we too should take heed and follow it.

Allah fixed the natural place for the woman to worship and obey Allah, considering the household jobs will be the best duty to be undertaken by the woman in the world life. This is contrary to man who is required by nature to work and keep performing prayers in the mosque. Moreover, man, and not the woman, is the one who has to move freely to earn living.

salam,

Allah says that the Prophet's wives were special and that ordinary women are not like the wives of the Prophet:

"Oh wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women..." - (33:32)


Then why is it so hard to believe that the Prophet's wives could recieve an instruction that does not equally apply to all believing women?

 

[afriend]

salam,

Allah says that the Prophet's wives were special and that ordinary women are not like the wives of the Prophet:

"Oh wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women..." - (33:32)


Then why is it so hard to believe that the Prophet's wives could recieve an instruction that does not equally apply to all believing women?

*

Yes....jazakallah for posting that up :)

I stil hav no reps :(

[lolwatever]

^^ that's a very silly conclusion...

by your logic we can derive that the laws of ifk don't apply when our sisters get slandered because it only applied to aysha because of her special status.

yes the wives of the prophet are extermely special because we consider them as our mothers etc... but as far as behaviour is concerned and etiquette, there's alot we can derive from the verses revealed to them.

[Mujahidah4Allah]

:sl:

they may not be like ordinary women but fact is we'll look up to them so if they were in the streets of the markets 24/7 we'd be like if they were allowed we should be too kinda thing... ok i dont make sense!

the main place i hate going to is the cash and carry them disgusting men always staring even if u look to the shelves theres always one some where staring, i thank Allah [swt] i wear niqaab ;D

anyways i think a woman should be allowed like for her needs but to go out to an extent where she's going to neglect her houehold duties e.g. cooking/cleaning then she shouldnt go out so often .. am i even making sense [wacko] :uhwhat

ma'salamah

[lolwatever]

^^ yeh sis i agree totally, it's simple.. as long as priorities are set and taken care of, all is cool as long as it's within Islam's guidelines :D

salamz

[Vaseline]

My mother never goes shopping alone, even if it's during the day and at night, she only goes when my dad comes home. A teenaged woman was raped at a tourist hotspot in the city [she was alone] so there are some sick guys out there. Usually, my mother takes me with her [now that I'm not at uni as frequently as I was in school]. Even if I need to go to the toilets, my mum comes with me and waits outside. You never know what's going to happen [there was a girl who was murdered in the toilets as well while her father and her brother went to the men's. They waited for her, thought she may have already come out, searched around the shopping area finally her brother, around 10 I think, went in the toilet (one of those single ones) and found her] =(

[SirZubair]

Sis, i'm all out of reps.....

I've repped her for you :p

Do not accuse the sheikh of something his innocent of and do not accuse us of blind following.

See, it is quite bitter isn't it... :?

[mlsh27]

My mother never goes shopping alone, even if it's during the day and at night, she only goes when my dad comes home. A teenaged woman was raped at a tourist hotspot in the city [she was alone] so there are some sick guys out there. Usually, my mother takes me with her [now that I'm not at uni as frequently as I was in school]. Even if I need to go to the toilets, my mum comes with me and waits outside. You never know what's going to happen [there was a girl who was murdered in the toilets as well while her father and her brother went to the men's. They waited for her, thought she may have already come out, searched around the shopping area finally her brother, around 10 I think, went in the toilet (one of those single ones) and found her] =(

However, these situations aren't as likely to occur as the media would like you to believe. I know the probability of those sorts of things happening are low, so I am not paranoid about them-but I do watch out for myself.

[lolwatever]

^^ that's true.. but it's still shockign stuff... and i guess Islam's reasons for what was said wasn't based on the existence of them sorta undesired elements in society... because in Islamic society i don't think you'd have rapists or women murderers lurking around in toilets....

[mlsh27]

^^ that's true.. but it's still shockign stuff... and i guess Islam's reasons for what was said wasn't based on the existence of them sorta undesired elements in society... because in Islamic society i don't think you'd have rapists or women murderers lurking around in toilets....

Those sort of people would not be in any good society, not just an Islamic one.

[Vaseline]

However, these situations aren't as likely to occur as the media would like you to believe. I know the probability of those sorts of things happening are low, so I am not paranoid about them-but I do watch out for myself.

They may not occur as much as the media makes it out to be but you still have to be aware and safe considering the society we live in. Especially as a Hijabi, you are more vulnerable.

[mlsh27]

They may not occur as much as the media makes it out to be but you still have to be aware and safe considering the society we live in. Especially as a Hijabi, you are more vulnerable.

Actually the most vulnerable women are those with a certain body proportion..I don't remember what it is, but I learned in a psych. class a study that had been done on rape victims & the majority of victims had this body proportion.

[Vaseline]

Actually the most vulnerable women are those with a certain body proportion..I don't remember what it is, but I learned in a psych. class a study that had been done on rape victims & the majority of victims had this body proportion.

I wasn't only specifically referring to rape, just to insults and discrimination in general especially after the September 11 attacks [and so on...]. But I do understand what you're trying to say there.

edit: Even with what some Muslimah's wear today, you can still tell what their body shape looks like....so it really doesn't make a difference for them

[syilla]

whats wrong with art gallery...if the gallery doesn't show any figure at all...

i'm guessing there is no such gallery... :rolleyes

[AvarAllahNoor]

So women should be locked up inside their homes UNLESS it's for something they need.....Never go to have a bit of leisure time [in limits] or something like that.....perhaps that's how it is in Saudi, but there is no harm if a woman covers herself and walks the streets with modesty to go somewhere nice......That should be suspected over??

All I can say is some people are shadeed to the point where there are no limits....

A woman is a human being for God's sake! Islam is the liberator of women...By keeping them locked up in their homes is no liberation.....And I KNOW islam is definately not unreasonable......

Glad you don't all think as some do!

[lolwatever]

^^ i don't think ANYONE believes that women are to be locked in their homes and banned from going out.. read the responses..
bye

[mlsh27]

Personally, I prefer to grocery shop with my husband because I get bored when I go alone. However, clothes shopping or any other shopping I love to do without him because he hates to wait around while I look through all the stores and so forth. Also, I don't get the whole having to travel with a mahram. Often, I don't have the option, and my career will probably not allow such either.

[Malaikah]

However, clothes shopping or any other shopping I love to do without him because he hates to wait around while I look through all the stores and so forth

:sl:

man thats sooo true!! men always ruin the any great clothe shopping experience!

Also, I don't get the whole having to travel with a mahram. Often, I don't have the option, and my career will probably not allow such either.

its only long distance anyway, and for your own protection. it was just on the news yesterday that a 19 year old girl was gang raped when she was out in the city.. :uuh: if that isnt proof that we need protection i dont know what is..

[Malaikah]

I dunno but isn't shopping and all that suppose to be part of teh husband's job under "fetching the rizq for the family"? The wife shouldn't be forced into doing his job as far as that's concerned...

:sl:

thats interesting.. even if the wife goes shopping the husband is still the one who pays for it.. the wife just gets to pick what she wants

men dont really know how to shop:rollseyes

[umm-sulaim]

Ukhayy Iqram you talk a lot of sense mashaAllah...
come on guys...its by the will of Allah those things happened to those poor girls, but if the wives of the rpophet may Allah be pleased with then didn't need escortation every time they stepped out the house then neither do we, we put our trust in Allah say our adhkaar for going out and inshaAllah Allah will protect us,
dunno bout you guys but i don't want to ask someone to come with me eeevery time i want to go out, if they wanna come sure tafaddhal but, otherwise its a bit of a burden...
Since its permissable don't see whats wrong with it....
As for travelling with a mahram.....thats mercy Allah sent down to women...cos it is hard in a foreign country on your own, trust me....
Allah gave these rulings for a reason , and his the all wise...

wassalaam

[Malaikah]

come on guys...its by the will of Allah those things happened to those poor girls, but if the wives of the rpophet may Allah be pleased with then didn't need escortation every time they stepped out the house then neither do we, we put our trust in Allah say our adhkaar for going out and inshaAllah Allah will protect us,

:sl:

but it doesnt always work like that sis.. would you put your hands into boiling water and put your faith in allah swt that you wont get burnt?

you have to take precautions, especially in some societies...

:)

[umm-sulaim]

Of course we need to take precautions sis, i'm not saying we don't but realistically, who is gonna take the female of the house out eeevrytime she wants to go out...?
And by reading your adhkaar thats one of the biggest precautions sis, the guy accompanying you can only help you if Allah has written that down, his only a reason for your safety...but you can't guarnatee it even then ukhtee,
but with your du'aa in Allah, his the answerer of all paryers...
and besides not every female in this world of ours has someone to protect her...
I'm glad its permissable alhamdullllah...deen yusr
wassalaam

[ameen]

^^ that's a very silly conclusion...

by your logic we can derive that the laws of ifk don't apply when our sisters get slandered because it only applied to aysha because of her special status.

yes the wives of the prophet are extermely special because we consider them as our mothers etc... but as far as behaviour is concerned and etiquette, there's alot we can derive from the verses revealed to them.

salam,

when Allah wants to address ALL believing women in the Qur'an, Allah does not hesitate to do so, eg. in the famous women's dress verse:

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty..." - (24:31)


and in the following verse, Allah addresses the believing women alongside the wives of the Prophet:

"Oh Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons: that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." - (33:59)


However, in certain other verses, Allah chooses ONLY to address the wives of the Prophet specifically, eg:

"Oh wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be doubled for her; and that is easy for Allah." - (33:30)


There may be a reason why the 'remain in houses' verse was addressed only to the wives of the Prophet in the Qur'an, while 'believing women' are not mentioned here. In-fact, the very previous verse is the verse which tells us that the Prophet's wives are different from other believing women.
 
 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Ameen, you are constantly attacking the Hadith, I want you to reply to this point. Last time I asked you, you backed away and never replied.

The Quran was told to us by the same mouth that told us the hadiths. You have the Quran today, how can you differentiate between the Quran and hadith when it came from the same mouth?

:w:

[afriend]

if a woman wants a career outside the home they need to plan on one that is acceptable. traveling without a mahram is unacceptable.

Ad deenu yusrun....The faith is easy.....

Why are you making it hard for yourself?

[afriend]

That's usualy non muslim women.....You could never compare them to our sisters of today....mashallah.

[afriend]

not true my friend

So what u tryin to say? Women are some desperate, easily influenced ones that should be looked down upon?

Get a life....I know women who are stronger in deen than some 'sheikhs' but they don't show it....

surely, there is always an exception

[afriend]

They don't need this sort of protection.....

How would you like it if someone told you not to get out the house unless it's for a reason....And no! You can't go to anybody's house, or abroad for a vacation....You might get influenced by some girl......you MIGHT that's why best not to take the risk...stay at home....Die....

Allah tests everyone if different ways.....

[Mawaddah]

if a woman wants a career outside the home they need to plan on one that is acceptable. traveling without a mahram is unacceptable.

Career outside the home is unacceptable? So to go drive from home to work in your hometown is unacceptable without a Mahram?

Rubbish

Like how the Brother before me said " Ad Deenu Yusr " Religion is Easy

Have you not heard the Hadeeth " Yassiru Wa laa Tu3assiru" Make things easy and do not make things difficult?

Is it required for a lady to have a mahram just to leave her house??.

Of course not.

Of course if she wants to have a mahram with her for sake of safety and all, then Masha'allah!! But to say it's Haram to leave home without a mahram???? NO way.

Can you imagine how difficult life would be if it was like that Brother? Not only would the woman feel caged up, but it would also be a headache for the man!! Who wants the headache of having to accompany his mother/sister/wife/daughter every? lol....i'm sure you have more things in your life to do than that lol...

No, lets not make things difficult on ourselves Insha'allah.....Lets not be extreme...Dont take things out of proportion.

[afriend]

Career outside the home is unacceptable? So to go drive from home to work in your hometown is unacceptable without a Mahram?

Rubbish

Like how the Brother before me said " Ad Deenu Yusr " Religion is Easy

Have you not heard the Hadeeth " Yassiru Wa laa Tu3assiru" Make things easy and do not make things difficult?

Is it required for a lady to have a mahram just to leave her house??.

Of course not.

Of course if she wants to have a mahram with her for sake of safety and all, then Masha'allah!! But to say it's Haram to leave home without a mahram???? NO way.

Can you imagine how difficult life would be if it was like that Brother? Not only would the woman feel caged up, but it would also be a headache for the man!! Who wants the headache of having to accompany his mother/sister/wife/daughter every? lol....i'm sure you have more things in your life to do than that lol...

No, lets not make things difficult on ourselves Insha'allah.....Lets not be extreme...Dont take things out of proportion.

:cry: *sniff* that was beautiful :)

[amirah_87]

as salaamu alaykum,

hmmm...i'd liked to add ...at-tashadudd haraam!! ..extremism is haraam...

how d'you think khadeejah radiyallaahu 3anhu made her buissness...was she locked up @ home selling things behind the kicthen shelf??

and women leaving their houses is allowed in the deen..even at night...a hadeeth says ..when the prophet salalaahu 3alayhi wasallam was in i3tikaaf his wives would come to visit him!!..and then he'd take them back to their houses!!

and in another hadeeth when ibnu 3umar saw sawdah radiyallahu 3anhaa in the dareeq/street he told to go back...so when the she went to the Prophet salalaahu 3alayhi wasallam he said: laqad udina lakunna an takhrujna li'hawaaijikunna!!....verily you have been granted permission to go out for your own purposes...(saheeh)

[afriend]

I agree heavily...

I will not stand for oppressors coughlalaboycough......You sound like a 10 year old when you make your points Lala........Sad....

PS. Ad deenu yusrun Amirah ;)

[mlsh27]

if a woman wants a career outside the home they need to plan on one that is acceptable. traveling without a mahram is unacceptable.

My career is very acceptable but will most likely require travelling. My husband, if he gets the career he wants, will also be travelling to various places that are not safe for me to go. So I should just give up everything I am working so hard for and a career goal I have had since childhood?!?! I think not...plus the work we both plan to do inshaAllah will be beneficial to society...

[SirZubair]

Islam is the Middle Way.

Don't be an extremist.

[amirah_87]

As salaamu alaykum,

PS. Ad deenu yusrun Amirah

sadaqta ya Iqram.. ad-deenu yusr wa laysa bi 3usr!!

[madeenahsh]

Asallama alykum warhamtullahi wabarakatuh

I would advice the mods to close down this thread before the fithna becomes more . and qil and qal talks ....Allaahu mustaan!
Allaah knows best.

wasallam alykum

[Mawaddah]

as salaamu alaykum,

hmmm...i'd liked to add ...at-tashadudd haraam!! ..extremism is haraam...

how d'you think khadeejah radiyallaahu 3anhu made her buissness...was she locked up @ home selling things behind the kicthen shelf??

and women leaving their houses is allowed in the deen..even at night...a hadeeth says ..when the prophet salalaahu 3alayhi wasallam was in i3tikaaf his wives would come to visit him!!..and then he'd take them back to their houses!!

and in another hadeeth when ibnu 3umar saw sawdah radiyallahu 3anhaa in the dareeq/street he told to go back...so when the she went to the Prophet salalaahu 3alayhi wasallam he said: laqad udina lakunna an takhrujna li'hawaaijikunna!!....verily you have been granted permission to go out for your own purposes...(saheeh)

Masha'allah exactly!! :thumbs_up

Ya Subhanallah extremists Aggravate me so much!!!

Wonderful post sis ;)

[afriend]

Asallama alykum warhamtullahi wabarakatuh

I would advice the mods to close down this thread before the fithna becomes more . and qil and qal talks ....Allaahu mustaan!
Allaah knows best.

wasallam alykum

I think many can take a lesson from it, or many lessons.....

Not to just accpet any fatwah from any old extremeist sheikh :), as well as, learning to respect women for what they really are.....

just a thought.....So leave it open...

[amirah_87]

as salaamu alaykum,

Na3am..I agree with the Brother!!..it has been a beneficial discussion...and maybe ppl would want more questions answered about this topic..

wallahul musta3aan!!

[Musaafirah]

:sl:
Personally, I'm not one to go shooping much..i get a head ache..:muddlehea:
But..it is alright to carry on with studies right? Coz there is never a limit to learning things right?..just wondering..
:w:

[afriend]

Yeah for sure......just read through some of the replies.....on these last 2 pages......your question will be answered.

[S_87]

Not to just accpet any fatwah from any old extremeist sheikh :), as well as, learning to respect women for what they really are.....

...

:sl:

whos the *any old extremist sheikh* you are referring to? :)

[lolwatever]

salam,

when Allah wants to address ALL believing women in the Qur'an, Allah does not hesitate to do so, eg. in the famous women's dress verse:
..... In-fact, the very previous verse is the verse which tells us that the Prophet's wives are different from other believing women.

salams
poor you why did your account get disabled? Btw Ahmeds reply to you is very good.... too bad we cant continue our PM/discussion..

anyway, that didn't refute anything i said about ifk and it's reveletion specialy for aisha, and for example revelation of the verses in defence of Khawlah (the companion who complained about her husband) in surat al-Mujadalah...

as for the rest of you guys... lets get back to topic, this isn't a thread about tertiary education.

I think one big problem is that beacuse we live in unislamic societies, people are remodelling and "re-inventing" fiqh to suit their current situation... which unfortunately isn't a very good thing but is OK because of the necessity, the problem is that it creates alot of argument and all that..

anyway... i think (or hope) we all agree that going out for no reason just to hangaround loosely on the street with nothing to do isn't from the characteristic of a believer (infact i think there's a hadith where the prophet repremanded some of hsi companions from just sitting on the street for no reason chatting away - and they where males-).... Based on the hadith amirah said, going out for a reason is OK and it proves that women aren't locked away in their homes (even the word 'wa-qarna' in that verse has a really neat meaning.. kinda like 'settle'.. rather than 'pinurself there')

Going out for shopping? If she's happy with doing that and she sticks to islamig rules,fine...

just remember the two keywords: 1. Priorities 2. Responsibilities.

And be happy with the role that asigned each gender. Really it's disgusting how much people sulk and complain and argue over nothing.

[Dhulqarnaeen]

Women going out shopping



Question: Me and my wife go out to the market to buy necessary items for her or the house, and she comes out with me completely covered, and all praise is due to Allaah (alone), and she does not speak to any of the traders (shop owners and ***istants). So is there any sin in her coming out (like this) or not? (Please) advise me.

Response: There is no harm in a woman going out to buy necessary items from the market if she has no-one who is able to do this on her behalf, so long as she is completely covered and remains away from mixing with the men and unnecessarily talking to them. And if she has a man from amongst her mahrams with her, then that is more complete and better.

However, if there is someone who can buy these necessary items on her behalf, then there is no need for her to go out for that which exists therein of fitnah and danger, especially in this day and age in which fitnah has increased and humility and mutual respect has decreased - except upon those whom Allaah has shown Mercy to. So it is obligatory for a woman to remain in her home as much as she is able to, as He (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala) says:

{And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance…}, Soorah al-Ahzaab, Aayah 33

http://www.fatwa-online.com

Shaykh Ibn Fowzaan
al-Muntaqaa min Fataawa Shaykh Saalih al-Fowzaan - Volume 3, Page 294, Fatwa No.430

:w:
Masha Allah :rollseyes I read this fatwa, and then I looked this room almost have 7 pages :D But I saw the fatawa just simple, masha Allah. And its clear that the women may go out as long its necessary, like when they wanna buy something and all. And IF they dont need to go out then the best is to stay at home, cause more often they go out of the house then more chances to fitnah, especially these times of days when fitnah are everywhere and evrytime masha Allah. So theres a level of iman here I suppose :rollseyes

The woman who afraid Allah most (the highest level) then she will not go out of her house except if she feel she has to, and she will try to stay away from fitnah. And she will stay at her house and doing something manfaat for her. If she need something then she will ask someone to buy them, or she go with her mahram. And if she doesnt have mahram then she will go by her self ONLY when she feel theres no other way to do except this, and she will lower her gaze and go home immediately after she finish and get what she need.

Also there are lot of muslimah who are a little bit loose, that they go everywhere "alone" (although still in town and all covered up) just for something thats actually unnecessary, or hanging around with friends and go to their house alone with a bus, or go somewhere just because she doesnt like to always stay at home. Maybe she bored to stay at home and wanna go around the town just for pleasure. And she walk out of her house without a feeling afraid of fitnah. Shes taking everything lightly.

And the worse girl is them who go everywhere as she wish alone, doesnt cover up, and hate to stay at home.

And women who wanna have vacation, going to somewhere beautiful maybe, then they should take her mahram, its the best. Her sisters for example, and more friends is better. Cause no human wanna locked up in the house right, and always do the same thing. They need some refreshment once in a time. But still its best not doing it often, and if wanna take vacation then go with family, or friends with one mahram with her. And if they go with friends, dont forget to give good naseehahs (advices) to eachother in haq and remind eachother from sins while the travelling, and stay away from fitnah and haram things.

I agree we may not extreme, but also I dont agree if its too loose. And the right Islam is mutawasith (in the middle), dont be too loose and dont be to shadeed. Take everything according to Islam and its proportion. Wabillahit taufiq

[Durrah]

^^

so what, a woman who goes on a bus by herself, or goes to visit her friend is loose? I'd hate to see what you deem as ****ty. Dare i say going on a train alone possiably? Ooh, maybe even going out for some halal takeway!

i wonder what 'islamic' opinion will be thrown up next. Regulations on how to breathe maybe, that will ensure that the male population dont loose all senses and fit into a sexual frenzy.

P.s Well done bro Iqram for being the only sane minded male in this thread and for not trashing us sisters and making offensive, sweeping generalisations as so many of our brothers love to do.

[afriend]

^^

so what, a woman who goes on a bus by herself, or goes to visit her friend is loose? I'd hate to see what you deem as ****ty. Dare i say going on a train alone possiably? Ooh, maybe even going out for some halal takeway!

i wonder what 'islamic' opinion will be thrown up next. Regulations on how to breathe maybe, that will ensure that the male population dont loose all senses and fit into a sexual frenzy.

.

YOU TELL EM SIS!!!

I'm tired of so much sexism in this world. Like a male ain't equally as fitnah inflicted as females.....Allah has made the man and female equal, except a fe differences which are completely logical, and Islam is logical!

"The woman is like a rib; if you try to straighten her, she will break. So if you want to get benefit from her, do so while she still has some crookedness."[Sahih Bukhari, Arabic-English translation, vol. VII Hadith No. 113.]

P.s Well done bro Iqram for being the only sane minded male in this thread and for not trashing us sisters and making offensive, sweeping generalisations as so many of our brothers love to do

lol that's no problem :)

[...]

P.s Well done bro Iqram for being the only sane minded male in this thread and for not trashing us sisters and making offensive, sweeping generalisations as so many of our brothers love to do.

Now now sis, thats a generalisation of the brothers:D I'm sure they aren't trying to offend us.
And how can u oppose an ayah in the quran? It is better for us women to stay in our homes - not to suppress us but to protect us. There is wisdom behind everything and allahu a'lam.

[Durrah]

:sl:

YOU TELL EM SIS!!!
I'm tired of so much sexism in this world. Like a male ain't equally as fitnah inflicted as females.....Allah has made the man and female equal, except a fe differences which are completely logical, and Islam is logical!

your not the only one thats tired bro. Im sick of men and women telling me that im somehow some sort of temptress who's out to make all the good men 'stray' from righteousness. Anyone would think that us women had our tongues licking on our lips, saying with a sultry voice " come here my pretty boys"

Astrfullilah!

the amount of demonisation of women that takes place amongst us is unbelieveable. Our brothers are so quick to pipe out how islam libeartes women- which it did, but get habour all this negative views about women.

One thing that is essetianl in all relationships, whether its with our spouses, relatives or children is TRUST! Its a concept which many have failed to understand. At the end of the day, if your wife is god fearing and you trust them, you wont be suspicious and need tabs on everymove they make. I dont know, but i see that with my parents and they've been married for over 25yrs. Never has once my father ever doubted my mother and never needs to 'check up' on her, or escort her every move or asks my mum to call up for permission to leave the house. Why? Because he compleatly TRUSTS her and alhmdualiah my mother is a god concious women.

Maybe some men feel they need to act like hawks with their wives and think thats its somehow more religious or mainly to behave in that way, when infact it isnt. I might not be able to rectify the attutides of some men, but i certainly will make du'a that i am not cursed into marrying such a man, for life would be hell if i did.

There was this saying, I'm not sure who by, but it's like this:

Women are made from the rib of man, they are crooked by nature, if u try to straighten them, they will break and some other parts which i've temporarily forgotten.

i always thought that was a hadith. I'll check up inshallah to make sure.

[Durrah]

Now now sis, thats a generalisation of the brothers:D I'm sure they aren't trying to offend us.
And how can u oppose an ayah in the quran? It is better for us women to stay in our homes - not to suppress us but to protect us. There is wisdom behind everything and allahu a'lam.

who said i opposed the ayah? Its funny how people are quick to label others and assume that somehow they are rejecting the words of allah s.w.t

What i oppose is people taking ayats out of context and then using them to justify their oppressive actions towards women. I know what the ayat means and it does not mean: lock up your women indoors, which is how it tends to be translated into actions. And that somehow if a woman goes out, say to meet her friends, goes to the gym, shopping, travels on the public transport system/or car, that she is 'floosy'= loose.

Protection comes from allah s.w.t and him alone, wherver you are. Don't think that somehow by being at home, that your out of compleate harms way. I remeber quite clearly how during the civil war in my own country how women were raped inside their own homes sis, so dont think that the the walls, bricks and motar will protect you, because they are nothing!

[Ayesha Rana]

Durrah, if a woman is dressed Islamically and modestly there is no harm in leaving the house for her.
It's not about trusting her it is about protecting her for her own sake.
And Brother Iqram, women staying in the home isn't just someone's opinion, we are advised to do so in the Qur'an and Allah's book is far from sexist.

[afriend]

Actually, if u read what was before that ayah, you will be surptised to see:

O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word. And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.

This is directed to the wives of the prophet [SAW]

[Ayesha Rana]

Protection comes from allah s.w.t and him alone, wherver you are. Don't think that somehow by being at home, that your out of compleate harms way. I remeber quite clearly how during the civil war in my own country how women were raped inside their own homes sis, so dont think that the the walls, bricks and motar will protect you, because they are nothing!

So? That doesn't mean we place ourselves in harms way. If you want to go out sis then by all means do so. There is no need to get worked up. The Brothers gave us some advice and you are free to have your own oppinion. Remember there is no compulsion in religion. If you don't like their advice then either say so politely or remain silent. There is no point in arguing against fellow muslims. And you create a bad impression of yourself by doing so.

[Ayesha Rana]

Actually, if u read what was before that ayah, you will be surptised to see:

O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word. And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.

This is directed to the wives of the prophet [SAW]

Yes and we should follow the example set by the wives of the prophets.

[afriend]

Yes, Allah also says:

you are not like any other of the women

So you can't force it upon every woman :heated: Annoying cos this has been refuted in the previous pages....

[Durrah]

Durrah, if a woman is dressed Islamically and modestly there is no harm in leaving the house for her.

Im well aware of that sister and that is sahih. But in the minds of some, modest dress or no modest dress, going out of the house, unless your on a ambulance stretcher is a no-no. I've seen how men twist the words of allah s.w.t and their context to do thing which by and large are not islamic.

One example (and this is not hearsay): theres 2 brothers i know of. Both have only 1 set of keys which belongs to them. As soon as they go to work in the morning (8/9am) they lock the door shut.

-Have their wives got a set of keys? NO! So the wives are physically in their houses till their husbands come home, which is around 6pm.

-If the house catches fire, could they get out with their babies? NO, because their front door is locked and they dont have a set of keys

-If someone breaks in the back window, can they run out the front door? NO, because its locked and they dont have set of keys

-If they need to go GP for health reasons, can they walk out with their kids and pop down to the GP sugery? NO (and GP's usually close at 5/6pm), why? yes thats right, because they dont have a set of keys.

-If the food runs out and they need to replenish a few grocries, can they go out to the shops? NO.......... you know why!


How do these brothers justify their actions?

{And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance…}, Soorah al-Ahzaab, Aayah 33

[Durrah]

So? That doesn't mean we place ourselves in harms way. If you want to go out sis then by all means do so. There is no need to get worked up. The Brothers gave us some advice and you are free to have your own oppinion. Remember there is no compulsion in religion. If you don't like their advice then either say so politely or remain silent. There is no point in arguing against fellow muslims. And you create a bad impression of yourself by doing so.

If only it was being presented as 'advice' sister, i would have no problem, but its not, its being presented as a ruling that we are being told that we supposed to abide by. Maybe those rulings work fine in socities like saudi, where a women can't drive or walk a few miles without an escort but not here.

secondly, im not worked up and neither have i been rude. Just because i am slightly passionate about ceratin topics, doesnt mean im being rude. If i have come across that way and you feel that i spoken in that manner towards you, then i apoligise.

thridly, the only people that are creating a bad impression are the brothers and sisters who have negative attiudies towards their sisters (and justify it through so-called relgious behaviour)

[lolwatever]

Iqram bro i'm surprised you're being all emotional and accusing others of sexism subhanallah... Mind you it was a sister who posted it, are you accusing her of being a self-hating sister?

And Durrah... if you disagree with the ruling, instead of being all fuzzy... refute a verse with a verse, hadith with hadith and so on... you're not making any point by just lashing it out at people based on what you think...

salams

[Dhulqarnaeen]

Yes, Allah also says:

you are not like any other of the women

So you can't force it upon every woman :heated: Annoying cos this has been refuted in the previous pages....

:w:
Please correct me if Im wrong, but all I know isnt it the wifes of Rasulullah shalalahu alaihi wasallam is the best example for women in how they behave in society. If they stay at home and they stay at home, and theyre the best example for you women. But do U think just because of the ayah then they just stayed at home till they dead? :uuh: Is it possible? You better search the tafseer, or maybe someone can tell us the tafseer from Ibn Katheer or Qurthubi about this matter. About the tafseer of the ayah, so we may not tafseer with our own understanding or interpretaion and following our nafs. Allahu a'lam. And also the same to men, whatever order to Rasulullah then its also for us, there are many hadiths about orders to Rasulullah and its become hukm for us too. And especially for women then make ummul mu'minin as your idol, then you can life safely insha Allah. And about the ayah, then look at tafseer insha Allah. I havent check.

And I wrote my opinion was NOT to offend someones feeling. Of course if one woman have to go out to take/buy something that she really need and no other way that she has to go alone, and then she have to go by bus then its darurah, shes in emergency situation right. As long as she has no choice except taking the bus. AS we already know that in busses its ikhtilat, mixing between men and women, and if she wanna be more saver then take the taxy instead. :peace: Its Easy and dont make dien harder, its easy if you wanna think more about the problem solver, just HAVE to be more aware of the situation, thats all.

And also, DONT TRUST YOUR SELF TOO MUCH, now you can say "Im not a men flirter, no way I will look at those men or I will act to them freely", masha Allah, Allah said "laa taqrobuz zinaa" and that means we have to be aware of the doors that can lead us to zinaa, and why women better to stay at home, cause hadith "when women go out of the house, then syaithon will follow her". And then this syaithon will make every mens eyes to the women and they will make everyting looked pretty on the mens veiwing. So its best women to stay at home, the best to them self and also its saver to the men around her. And also if you are too sure about your self, then we know that Allah muqallibal quluub, if our heart is in Islam, who can goarantee we will have the same heart when we dead later? Or maybe tonight or one minute from now? We cant goarantee cause Allah muqallibal quluub. So thats why its sunnah to say "Allahumman yaa muqallibal quluub, thabit qulubanaa 'alaa thoatik", means yaa Allah who often turn around the heart, please make our heart stronger to obey you". (please make the correction better insha Allah since Im not english)

And may not think that Islam is hard to be practised, cause maybe its our conceit that we hardly can understand what Islam teaching us cause its against our passion. Allahu a'lam.

[scentsofjannah]

So women should be locked up inside their homes UNLESS it's for something they need.....Never go to have a bit of leisure time [in limits] or something like that.....perhaps that's how it is in Saudi, but there is no harm if a woman covers herself and walks the streets with modesty to go somewhere nice......That should be suspected over??

All I can say is some people are shadeed to the point where there are no limits....

A woman is a human being for God's sake! Islam is the liberator of women...By keeping them locked up in their homes is no liberation.....And I KNOW islam is definately not unreasonable......

good post brother..some Muslims think even a squeak coming out of a woman is haraam..that she should only go out with her husband and if hes not around just lock herself at home presumably cooking food for a bunch of kids.

[scentsofjannah]

It is not matter of locking up women in their houses. It is a matter of them following the commandment of the Quran.

And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance…, Soorah al-Ahzaab, Aayah 33

If it is necessary for the sister to go out then she can do so! She has ever right. But she should not make a display of herself and cause fitnah…

:)

that verse applies ONLY to the Mothers of the Faithful ..ie the wives of Prophet Muhammed peace and blessings be upon them all.

[lolwatever]

^^ sis this thread isn't about what certain Muslims do or don't do.. it's about what Allah tells us to do...

Iqram why don't you just explain things with evidence instead of going off your rocker like that...

Here's a bit of a help for you... We know that Allah revealed that verse about staying at home right? But we also know that the prophet use to (almost always) do a draw between his wives and take one of his wives to accompany him on an expedition he'd go to....

also from what sis amirah mentioned about his wives visiting him during the night...

and also.. the hadith of the prophet which states that Islam will rule all over, to th epoint that a Woman will leave her home and travel abroad fearing no one but Allah (i.e. all alone)....

What that implies is, the verse doesn't mean at all "Stick yourself home, don't squeak (as scents of jannah put it) and don't do anything else"... It's a recomendation...

Maybe you should also pull off another 'mens liberlisation argument' about the hadith which says that we shouldn't go out during the 'dhaheerah' because the shayateen are out and about during that time.... so what u gonna say? "How dare the prophet lock men up inside thier homes during that time unless its for something they need?" and "How dare the prophet repremand his companions from hanging out on the street?" ("just because they didn't have any need to be there") ??

Fear Allah guys.. honestly it's a big thing to go yelling and accusing people of things just because they quoted a verse or two! And learn how to put things into perspective for gods sake...

And iqram if you're going to be like that... quote me one single place where any brother said women should be locked in their homes unless its for a need? I'm pretty sure the brothers with evidence here agree that she's got all the right to go visit sisters and learn and go tot he Masjid etc etc etc....

If there are any Muslim males who believe that women should be caged in their homes and not even 'squeak', then all the worst to them, but don't go painting that image on to me or whoever else without proof.

[lolwatever]

that verse applies ONLY to the Mothers of the Faithful ..ie the wives of Prophet Muhammed peace and blessings be upon them all.

where's your proof for that? have you read my response to Ameen who also pulled off that argument..
tc
all thebest
salams

[scentsofjannah]

:sl:



your not the only one thats tired bro. Im sick of men and women telling me that im somehow some sort of temptress who's out to make all the good men 'stray' from righteousness. Anyone would think that us women had our tongues licking on our lips, saying with a sultry voice " come here my pretty boys"

Astrfullilah!

the amount of demonisation of women that takes place amongst us is unbelieveable. Our brothers are so quick to pipe out how islam libeartes women- which it did, but get habour all this negative views about women.

One thing that is essetianl in all relationships, whether its with our spouses, relatives or children is TRUST! Its a concept which many have failed to understand. At the end of the day, if your wife is god fearing and you trust them, you wont be suspicious and need tabs on everymove they make. I dont know, but i see that with my parents and they've been married for over 25yrs. Never has once my father ever doubted my mother and never needs to 'check up' on her, or escort her every move or asks my mum to call up for permission to leave the house. Why? Because he compleatly TRUSTS her and alhmdualiah my mother is a god concious women.

Maybe some men feel they need to act like hawks with their wives and think thats its somehow more religious or mainly to behave in that way, when infact it isnt. I might not be able to rectify the attutides of some men, but i certainly will make du'a that i am not cursed into marrying such a man, for life would be hell if i did.




i always thought that was a hadith. I'll check up inshallah to make sure.

great post sis :)

I'm very worried about this too..Muslims seem to be mixing Islam with their own culture then they push that down our throats as authentic Islam.

Women can go anywhere provided they don't TRANGRESS the limits.

Men can go anywhere provided they DONT transgress the limits

Its as simple as that.There are no different laws for women and different laws for men...both have to guard their bodies, and act responsibly.

[lolwatever]

^^ The prophet repremanded his companions from sitting on the street with nothing to do.... so there's more to it than just going out whenever you want for no reason.

Alhamdulilah he was telling that to the male companions, if he said that to female companions i bet we'd have a protest here

salams

[scentsofjannah]

where's your proof for that? have you read my response to Ameen who also pulled off that argument..
tc
all thebest
salams

:sl:

Yes that verse was specifically addressed to the Mothers of the Faithful (May Allah be pleased with them all)

Its not addressed to me or any ordinary women.

do you even know there are verses in the Qur'an addressed to the Mothers of the Faithful that tells them to speak from behind a partition??

and do you even know there are verses that tell them not to take OTHER HUSBANDS after the death of Prophet Muhammed? peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

Now tell me which Muslim Women will agree to that?? If they say the verses addressed to the Mothers of the faithful apply to us ordinary women too then the above verses also apply to them according to their logic.

:w:

[scentsofjannah]

^^ The prophet repremanded his companions from sitting on the street with nothing to do.... so there's more to it than just going out whenever you want for no reason.

Alhamdulilah he was telling that to the male companions, if he said that to female companions i bet we'd have a protest here

salams

lol no protest

No one should waste their time.:D

[lolwatever]

and did you know that the verses of Ifk where revealed specially in Aysha's case?

So does that mean if other brothers or sisters get slandered they can go away unpunished?

Also.. if that verse was an absolute statement (i.e. if it implied it's HARAM to go out of the house), why did the prophet take his wives out to very long journeys, and he'd even take them to expeditions...

It's more complicated than the way you're treating it.. if the Shareeah came with two distinct rulings, (like the case of marrying other ppl after the prophet), then yes you're right.. its specific to them...

But even in the case of speaking behind a partition, there are lessons to be dervied which apply today, hence the point of Hijab and the rulings regarding intereaction between genders

salams

[lolwatever]

lol no protest

No one should waste their time.:D

:lol: alhamdulilah, but i'm pretty sure there's other dimwitts who don't have nething better to do :enough!:

[scentsofjannah]

and did you know that the verses of Ifk where revealed specially in Aysha's case?

So does that mean if other brothers or sisters get slandered they can go away unpunished?

Also.. if that verse was an absolute statement (i.e. if it implied it's HARAM to go out of the house), why did the prophet take his wives out to very long journeys, and he'd even take them to expeditions...

It's more complicated than the way you're treating it.. if the Shareeah came with two distinct rulings, (like the case of marrying other ppl after the prophet), then yes you're right.. its specific to them...

But even in the case of speaking behind a partition, there are lessons to be dervied which apply today, hence the point of Hijab and the rulings regarding intereaction between genders

salams

:sl:

It was revealed during that time true..but then the hukm to give all false witnesses 80 lashes is for all women.

No where does it say to lash only those who lie and spread vicious rumurs about the Mothers of the Faithful.

I never said it was haraam for the Mothers of the Faithful to step out of the house...but the fact remains the ayah is not inclusive.
:w:

[lolwatever]

^^ yes that's correct, but just like the way the verse "we have written on the children of israel that whoever kills a soul, it is as if he killed the entire humanity" was revealed to the children of israel, doesn't imply at all that it doesnt imply to us..

or otherwise.. why did Allah reveal it, just for the fun of it? Similarly the verses regarding the evils of the scholasr of the people of the book and many others, they where specificlaly talking about christians and jews, and no where do you find similar rulings that explicilty mention 'yes these are for Muslims'

yet the scholars extract benefits and rulings from all verses, those that where revealed in specific to others and those that wheren't...

once again.. all i'm saying is, what's the fuss here about? no one is taking it to mean they ought to wrot to death in their homes....

and i cant recall anyone saying it's haram for a sis to go shopping...

salam

[afriend]

Response: There is no harm in a woman going out to buy necessary items from the market if she has no-one who is able to do this on her behalf, so long as she is completely covered and remains away from mixing with the men and unnecessarily talking to them. And if she has a man from amongst her mahrams with her, then that is more complete and better.

However, if there is someone who can buy these necessary items on her behalf, then there is no need for her to go out for that which exists therein of fitnah and danger, especially in this day and age in which fitnah has increased and humility and mutual respect has decreased - except upon those whom Allaah has shown Mercy to. So it is obligatory for a woman to remain in her home as much as she is able to, as He (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala) says:

What this....urm....I duno, could he be a sheikh? says, is 100% contradictory to what you say lolwater....That's what I'm refuting to.....

My point is don't just accept whatever some so called fake sheikh says....You need to look into the tafseer of every ayah, which I will be posting now:

This Ayah is addressed to the wives of the Prophet who chose Allah and His Messenger and the Home of the Hereafter, and remained married to the Messenger of Allah . Thus it was befitting that there should be rulings which applied only to them, and not to other women, in the event that any of them should commit open Fahishah. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "This means Nushuz (rebellion) and a bad attitude.'' Whatever the case, this is a conditional phrase and it does not imply that what is referred to would actually happen. This is like the Ayat:
وَلَقَدْ أُوْحِىَ إِلَيْكَ وَإِلَى الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكَ لَئِنْ أَشْرَكْتَ لَيَحْبَطَنَّ عَمَلُكَ


(And indeed it has been revealed to you, as it was to those before you: "If you join others in worship with Allah, surely your deeds will be in vain.'') (39:65)

وَلَوْ أَشْرَكُواْ لَحَبِطَ عَنْهُمْ مَّا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ


(But if they had joined in worship others with Allah, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them.) (6:88)

قُلْ إِن كَانَ لِلرَّحْمَـنِ وَلَدٌ فَأَنَاْ أَوَّلُ الْعَـبِدِينَ


(Say: "If the Most Gracious had a son, then I am the first of (Allah's) worshippers.'') (43:81)

لَّوْ أَرَادَ اللَّهُ أَن يَتَّخِذَ وَلَداً لاَّصْطَفَى مِمَّا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَآءُ سُبْحَـنَهُ هُوَ اللَّهُ الْوَحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ


(Had Allah willed to take a son, He could have chosen whom He willed out of those whom He created. But glory be to Him! He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.) (39:4). Because their status is so high, it is appropriate to state that the sin, if they were to commit it, would be so much worse, so as to protect them and their Hijab. Allah says:

مَن يَأْتِ مِنكُنَّ بِفَـحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ


(Whoever of you commits an open Fahishah, the torment for her will be doubled,) Malik narrated from Zayd bin Aslam:

يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ


(the torment for her will be doubled,) "In this world and the next.'' Something similar was narrated from Ibn Abi Najih, from Mujahid.

وَكَانَ ذلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيراً


(and that is ever easy for Allah.) it is very easy indeed. Then Allah mentions His justice and His bounty, in the Ayah:

وَمَن يَقْنُتْ مِنكُنَّ للَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ


(And whosoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger,) i.e., obeys Allah and His Messenger ,

نُؤْتِهَـآ أَجْرَهَا مَرَّتَيْنِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهَا رِزْقاً كَرِيماً


(We shall give her, her reward twice over, and We have prepared for her a noble provision.) i.e., in Paradise, for they will be in the dwellings of the Messenger of Allah in the highest reaches of `Illiyin, above the dwellings of all the people, in Al-Wasilah which is the closest of the dwellings of Paradise to the Throne.

ينِسَآءَ النَّبِىِّ لَسْتُنَّ كَأَحَدٍ مِّنَ النِّسَآءِ إِنِ اتَّقَيْتُنَّ فَلاَ تَخْضَعْنَ بِالْقَوْلِ فَيَطْمَعَ الَّذِى فِى قَلْبِهِ مَرَضٌ وَقُلْنَ قَوْلاً مَّعْرُوفاً - وَقَرْنَ فِى بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلاَ تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَـهِلِيَّةِ الاٍّولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَوةَ وَءَاتِينَ الزَّكَـوةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُـمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيــراً - وَاذْكُـرْنَ مَا يُتْـلَى فِى بُيُوتِكُـنَّ مِنْ ءَايَـتِ اللَّهِ وَالْحِكْــمَةِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ لَطِيفاً خَبِيراً


h(32. O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep you have Taqwa, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner.) (33. And stay in your houses, and do not Tabarruj yourselves like the Tabarruj of the times of ignorance, and perform the Salah, and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove the Ar-Rijs from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification.) (34. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Ayat of Allah and Al-Hikmah. Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.)

SOURCE:

TAFSEER IBN KATHEER :)

:threadclo

I mean....case closed....

[ameen]

...poor you why did your account get disabled?...

salam,

My account on this forum was banned permanently, because one of the moderators could not tolerate my views.

I have been unbanned under the restriction that I don't speak out against opinions and fatwas such as the one which initiated this thread.

wsalam

 

[Dhulqarnaeen]

great post sis :)

I'm very worried about this too..Muslims seem to be mixing Islam with their own culture then they push that down our throats as authentic Islam.

Women can go anywhere provided they don't TRANGRESS the limits.

Men can go anywhere provided they DONT transgress the limits

Its as simple as that.There are no different laws for women and different laws for men...both have to guard their bodies, and act responsibly.

:sl:
This is what I mean by writing the level of the women in Islam above. The best women will not say anything like this to their bros and sis in Islam. And the method like this to me is a bit loose or its already so loose. Sisters who afraid Allah will tell their sisters to avoid travelling unnecessary to AVOID fitnah. Like I said above when Quran said "Laa taqrobuz zina", then we have to know that there are doors which lead us to zina, such as talking and behave freely to boys, reading magazine or porn magazine, alone with girl, etc. So if the method is like sis scent said above ^^, so then we may say "its ok a man together with a girl as long they dont trangress the limits", OR "its ok to read the magazine as long as we dont trangress the limits", meanwhile we know, when a MAN already entered the door of zina, then its a great chance to fall to zina. And also when we say girls "can go anywhere (although we also said as long they dont trangress the limits)" then they will have bigger chance to fall to Zina. And THE BEST is to avoid zina and recognize all doors that lead to it. Its what we must understand with or without that ayah. And the ayah then make more clear that the best women (ummul mu'minin) always stay at home. And its not mean they may not go out at all, cause impossible they dont go out at all. No human can stand without socialize to people. But its the best they stay at home, of course when they have necessary needs then they will go out the house, Allahu a'lam. But theyre the women who afraid Allah most, theyre the best example, so everygirl who wanna be the best woman then see them how they behave in daily life

[Dhulqarnaeen]

:sl:
I didnt see the tafseer you brought bro Iqram masha ALlah. And may I ask a question about this ayah: "(32. O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep you have Taqwa, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner.) (33. And stay in your houses, and do not Tabarruj yourselves like the Tabarruj of the times of ignorance, and perform the Salah, and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove the Ar-Rijs from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification.) (34. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Ayat of Allah and Al-Hikmah. Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.)".

Yes I understand that there are rules that especially for Ummul muminin only, such as may not marry after Rasulullah dead. But from the ayah above, and form tafseer you brought, then did Ibn Katheer explained that the ayah about Ummul mu'minin must stay at home, then ITS also especially for Ummul mu'minin only and not for all muslimah? Do U have explanations about this? :) I would love to know. Cause (forgive my behave), but the explanation still in general meaning, cause I didnt see that the tafseer explain that ayah which said ummul mu'minin stay in their house is ONLY for them and not for EVERY muslimah. Or maybe you can find me the more complete explanation about this :) Insha Allah.

[afriend]

:sl: akhi!

"You are not like any other women"

now if you take this ayah into consideration, you can detect naturally that it is not directed at other women...

As well as this:

"Oh Wives of the prophet"

This as well, when Allah addresses a certain people he says it like this...If he had wanted to address all believing women, he would have said:

"oh believing women..."

[*noor]

lol i think i'd flip if i didn't go shopping myself lol

my mom and I and my sisters do pretty much all of the shopping.....men don't know how to shop!!!......at least in my family they don't! lol

[syilla]

^^^yeah u r right...

we ask 4 different thing...they bought different things....

[Mujahidah4Allah]

:sl:

lolz i agree with sis *noor :p ots me ma sis n sis in law ...

ma'salamah

[S_87]

:sl: iqram

My point is don't just accept whatever some so called fake sheikh says....You need to look into the tafseer of every ayah, which I will be posting now:

i did not want to say anything but i feel i have to so here goes..

just because our limited knowledge tells us something it does not qualify us to insult learned scholars by calling them *so called fake sheikh* im sure sheikh fawzan knows a load more than all the members posting here put together. it does not mean you have to agree with him, but atleast give him the respect he is due?

if you look at after the first part of ayah the translation is:

and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance

any person can say this applies to only the wives of the Prophet :arabic5: we can display ourselves then right?

[afriend]

any person can say this applies to only the wives of the Prophet we can display ourselves then right?

No, becuase Allah addresses you believing women directly in Chapter number 24, ayah 31:

And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their adornment except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful

But I get you about the respect thing...I wont do it again

:)

[S_87]

:sl:

a woman does not need to be uncovered to *display* herself :)

and regarding the ayah Al Qurtubee said:
There are resplendent evidences in Islaam that require women to stay at home and not to go out except when necessary. And when it becomes necessary for them to go out they should do so with complete covering of themselves and their adornments

plus it is to be remembered that even for salah a thing that is absolutely necessary a woman is not prevented from praying in the masjid though her home be better for her. that says alot...

[afriend]

Well, for sure...go ahead, if you think it's best to stay at home masha'Allah, but that's not going to make anybody pious.

It's like when a person just goes out prays and coms home and doesn't do anything else when he gets home. What is he being tested on?

By going out, one is tested and trialled by Allah [swt] in many different ways, by over coming and suceeding through those trials one becomes closer to Allah.

For example, if a sister goes outside and is tested by Allah, she encounters a very handsome man, if she keeps her gaze down even in that situation, she has gained more piety.

[Umm Yoosuf]

Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulaahi Wa Barakatuh

Indeed some Ayaats in the Quran directly adress the Mothers of the Believes. But who are the mothers of the believers? Are they not the best of women? most pious? our role Models? Are they not the women's whom

"When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed,cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." ?

and a another hadiths states

When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.

They are our role models! And they are the best of role models! And when some people say such and such Ayaats are revealed to only the wives of the Prophet and not you....I am a bit anxious...:hiding:

Indeed it is adressed to them but it also applies to our lives....from our dress to our character. Every woman should live up to the role of the sahabiyats!

[afriend]

for sure...But the tafseer also states....I give up...I gave tafseer, logical points, everything in the book......:cry:

All I am saying is, well and good if you stay in your homes, but don't force everyone to do the same....Leisure is needed for everybody, but in limits

[Dhulqarnaeen]

Well, for sure...go ahead, if you think it's best to stay at home masha'Allah, but that's not going to make anybody pious.

It's like when a person just goes out prays and coms home and doesn't do anything else when he gets home. What is he being tested on?

By going out, one is tested and trialled by Allah [swt] in many different ways, by over coming and suceeding through those trials one becomes closer to Allah.

For example, if a sister goes outside and is tested by Allah, she encounters a very handsome man, if she keeps her gaze down even in that situation, she has gained more piety.

:w:
Masha Allah akhi, maybe you should check again wether what you said is true or not :ooh: cause I hear my ustadh said that sheikh Abdulaziz bin Bazz, syaikh Shalih al Fawzan explained that the ayah is for every women. So I think maybe you understand it wrong, Allahu a'lam. If everybody ask me of course I will take the opinions of the sheikh cause its understandble and away from an importancies insha Allah.
And If I were you akheel kareem Iqram, Rasulullah said :"anybody who teach bad sunnah then they will suffer the sins from someone who did the teaching", so I think we have to be more carefull in saying anything, and its best if we avoid something that we dont know and may not follw our own nafs, Wallahu yahdikunna. How if the women read these explanations and they will say "look, even quran said its ONLY for ummul mu'minin, so we can go everywhere we like as long as we know the limit", then like I said if they do that, go out freely, then they will get use to it and then they will add their travel with something, more and more till syaithon succeed make them fall into zina or another big sins. And its all can caused by OUR explanations. So its best to be so carefull about these things and we should remember "watawashaubil haq watawashaubils shabr". So we encourage our sis and bros to be aware of the doors which can lead us to big sins.
And logically its impossible that the ayah is ONLY for ummul mu'minin since the ayah mean in general. Except the ayah taht said ummul mu'minin cant marry again after Rasulullah dead, then its understood and its especially for them. But the ayah about STAYING AT HOME then it can be done by every muslimah according their LEVEL of taqwa, Allahu a'lam bisshawab.

[Dhulqarnaeen]

Assalaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulaahi Wa Barakatuh

Indeed some Ayaats in the Quran directly adress the Mothers of the Believes. But who are the mothers of the believers? Are they not the best of women? most pious? our role Models? Are they not the women's whom

"When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed,cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." ?

and a another hadiths states

When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.

They are our role models! And they are the best of role models! And when some people say such and such Ayaats are revealed to only the wives of the Prophet and not you....I am a bit anxious...:hiding:

Indeed it is adressed to them but it also applies to our lives....from our dress to our character. Every woman should live up to the role of the sahabiyats!

:w:
I agree. So as the fatawa of sheikh Fawzan in the first post in this thread, so women is ok to go out shopping as long as they stay away from fitnah, and if they have someone then its better ask them to buy something for you.
And if you dont have someone then you may go out shopping as long its necessary and theres no other way except it. But its best take somebody with you, and the best take mahram with you, at least friends, of course the good one.
And even if we ask syaikh Ash Shuraim, Im sure he will say something that wont contradict ulama who is more kabeer than him such as syaikh Bin Bazz, syaikh Fawzan, etc. Cause I know syaikh Shuraim is more more shadeed in his understanding (he is salafy alhamdulillah) than another sheikh in masjidil haram. Thats what I know alhamdulillah. But all those syaikh such as syaikh As Sudais are salafy too alhamdulillah. I ever met him in Hilton hotel in jakarta when he visited Indonesia alhamdulillah.
So girls, better take the savest ways, DONT go out of your house (in this century of fitnah) if its not necessary. If you have to go somewhere then do it in the savest way too :peace: Take mahram, take the taxi, ask someone to buy something for you, but the best stay at home everyday and doing something manfaat, reading hadith and Quran, educate your family and neighbours. If you can educate your self well then youre the mujahidah whose Islam laying on you on the way you educate your children in the future. Insha Allah.

[S_87]

:w:

And even if we ask syaikh Ash Shuraim, Im sure he will say something that wont contradict ulama who is more kabeer than him such as syaikh Bin Bazz, syaikh Fawzan, etc.
.

:sl:

we dont need to ask him, hes already used the ayah 33:33 to prove women should stay at home in his khutbah *save the women* as has the other imams when referring to women going out in the west.

[Umm Yoosuf]

Discussion finished then?

Thread closed.

PM me if you got any queries.