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Lamaggad
08-11-2006, 03:52 PM
The "hiding among civilians" myth

Israel claims it's justified in bombing civilians because Hezbollah mingles with them. In fact, the militant group doesn't trust its civilians and stays as far away from them as possible.

By Mitch Prothero
Jul. 28, 2006 | The bombs came just as night fell, around 7 p.m. The locals knew that the 10-story apartment building had been the office, and possibly the residence, of Sheik Tawouk, the Hezbollah commander for the south, so they had moved their families out at the start of the war. The landlord had refused to rent to Hezbollah when they requested the top floors of the building. No matter, the locals said, the Hezb guys just moved in anyway in the name of the "resistance."

Everyone knew that the building would be hit eventually. Its location in downtown Tyre, which had yet to be hit by Israeli airstrikes, was not going to protect it forever. And "everyone" apparently included Sheik Tawouk, because he wasn't anywhere near it when it was finally hit.

Two guided bombs struck it in a huge flash bang of fire and concrete dust followed by the roar of 10 stories pancaking on top of each other, local residents said. Jihad Husseini, 46, runs the driving school a block away and was sitting in his office when the bombs struck. He said his life was saved because he had drawn the heavy cloth curtains shut on the windows facing the street, preventing him from being hit by a wave of shattered glass. But even so, a chunk of smoldering steel flew through the air, broke through the window and the curtain, and shot past his head and through the wall before coming to rest in his neighbor's home.

But Jihad still refuses to leave.

"Everything is broken, but I can make it better," he says, surrounded by his sons Raed, 20, and Mohammed, 12. "I will not leave. This place is not military, it is not Hezbollah; it was an empty apartment."

Throughout this now 16-day-old war, Israeli planes high above civilian areas make decisions on what to bomb. They send huge bombs capable of killing things for hundreds of meters around their targets, and then blame the inevitable civilian deaths -- the Lebanese government says 600 civilians have been killed so far -- on "terrorists" who callously use the civilian infrastructure for protection.

But this claim is almost always false. My own reporting and that of other journalists reveals that in fact Hezbollah fighters -- as opposed to the much more numerous Hezbollah political members, and the vastly more numerous Hezbollah sympathizers -- avoid civilians. Much smarter and better trained than the PLO and Hamas fighters, they know that if they mingle with civilians, they will sooner or later be betrayed by collaborators -- as so many Palestinian militants have been.

For their part, the Israelis seem to think that if they keep pounding civilians, they'll get some fighters, too. The almost nightly airstrikes on the southern suburbs of Beirut could be seen as making some sense, as the Israelis appear convinced there are command and control bunkers underneath the continually smoldering rubble. There were some civilian casualties the first few nights in places like Haret Hreik, but people quickly left the area to the Hezbollah fighters with their radios and motorbikes.
to continue reading this article [Click Here]
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babybackribs
08-11-2006, 08:01 PM
Way of Life: Undisclosed
U.N.- Hezbollah Are Cowards, To Blame For Civilian Deaths - 1 Week Ago

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...ION=HOME&TEMPL ATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-24-18-23-02


Jul 24, 6:23 PM EDT

U.N. Exec Blames Hezbollah for Deaths

By LAUREN FRAYER
Associated Press Writer

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- The U.N. humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah on Monday of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel.

The militant group has built bunkers and tunnels near the Israeli border to shelter weapons and fighters, and its members easily blend in among civilians.

Jan Egeland spoke to reporters at Larnaca airport in Cyprus late Monday after visiting Lebanon to coordinate an international aid effort. On Sunday, he toured the rubble of Beirut's southern suburbs, a once-teeming Shiite district where Hezbollah had its headquarters.

During that visit, he condemned the killing and wounding of civilians by both sides and called Israel's offensive "disproportionate" and "a violation of international humanitarian law."


On Monday, he had strong words for Hezbollah, which crossed into Israel, captured two soldiers and killed eight others on July 12, triggering fierce fighting.

"Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men."

"We need a cessation of hostilities because this is a war where civilians are paying the price," said Egeland, who was heading to Israel next.

At least 600,000 Lebanese have fled their homes, according to the World Health Organization. One estimate by Lebanon's finance minister putting the number at 750,000, nearly 20 percent of the population.


During his visit to Lebanon earlier Monday, Egeland issued an emergency appeal for $150 million to help Lebanon through the next three months. He told reporters in Beirut the money was needed to pay for food, health care, water and sanitation.

"Approximately 500,000 to 800,000 people have been affected by the conflict, of whom some have become displaced persons or refugees," a U.N. statement said.

The United Nations has contracted 100 trucks to deliver aid coming into Beirut around the country. Egeland said the U.N. hoped to send its first land convoy to Tyre on Wednesday. Similar convoys will be scheduled every second day after that. An international Red Cross convoy was expected in the city Monday.

Egeland said he was asking Israel for safe passage for aid ships to enter the northern port of Tripoli and the southern port of Tyre, which has been heavily bombarded. So far, Israel has loosened its sea blockade of Lebanon only to let ships in Beirut port.

"We're hopeful that in the course of this week, you'll see real progress on the ground. Lebanon has a right to be frustrated," he said.

He said the U.N. was also asking Israel to also guarantee safe passage throughout Lebanon.

Hundreds of thousands of refugees have flowed out of mainly Shiite regions - the south, the Bekaa and the crowded Shiite neighborhood of Beirut - crowding into cities including the southern port of Sidon, the remainder of Beirut and parts of the north and central mountains.

"We are particularly worried about the population in south Lebanon and the (eastern) Bekaa Valley. It's here that they're in the crossfire and from where they're being displaced," Egeland said.

Continued Israeli bombardment makes the aid mission risky.

"Only cessation of hostilities can make it safe for us and our humanitarian colleagues," Egeland said.

© 2006 The Associated Press.


Jan says Hezbollah are cowards. I beleive Jan !
Reply

Kidman
08-11-2006, 08:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
The "hiding among civilians" myth

Israel claims it's justified in bombing civilians because Hezbollah mingles with them. In fact, the militant group doesn't trust its civilians and stays as far away from them as possible.

By Mitch Prothero

to continue reading this article [Click Here]

Good article... keep it up.

Babybackribs -> keep up the ignorance bro, :thumbs_up

Kidman
Reply

wilberhum
08-11-2006, 08:11 PM
In fact, the militant group doesn't trust its civilians
That is really interesting.
I wondery why?
Maybe because of the thousand that have died after they attacked Israel.
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babybackribs
08-11-2006, 08:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
Babybackribs -> keep up the ignorance bro, :thumbs_up Kidman



It's easy to bad-mouth someone, junior. But what do you think about the U.N.'s Humanitarian Chief saying Hezbollah are cowards hiding amongst civilians ? Care to comment on that ?
Reply

Najiullah
08-11-2006, 08:13 PM
thanks for sharing
Reply

babybackribs
08-11-2006, 08:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by najiullah
thanks for sharing


No problem.
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Kidman
08-11-2006, 08:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by babybackribs
It's easy to bad-mouth someone, junior. But what do you think about the U.N.'s Humanitarian Chief saying Hezbollah are cowards hiding amongst civilians ? Care to comment on that ?
Like i said in the other post... you only found one person and you believed him ignorantly instead of looking at the fact and what is more common sense.

Let's see... Hezbollah hides behind people they are defending? If so, why haven't they found any Hezbollah in the Qana massacre? Or, i might add, in all the other civilian territories that were bombed???

Let me guess of your answer... "They hide there, then before Israel is about to hit they get intellegence of it and run... leaving the civilians there to die."

Maybe you should use your own brain instead of listening to other idiots.

Kidman
Reply

wilberhum
08-11-2006, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
Like i said in the other post... you only found one person and you believed him ignorantly instead of looking at the fact and what is more common sense.

Let's see... Hezbollah hides behind people they are defending? If so, why haven't they found any Hezbollah in the Qana massacre? Or, i might add, in all the other civilian territories that were bombed???

Let me guess of your answer... "They hide there, then before Israel is about to hit they get intellegence of it and run... leaving the civilians there to die."

Maybe you should use your own brain instead of listening to other idiots.

Kidman
As my mommie use to say, "The pot calling the cattel black".
Reply

Muezzin
08-11-2006, 08:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
As my mommie use to say, "The pot calling the cattel black".
You mean kettle, surely?
Reply

babybackribs
08-11-2006, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
Like i said in the other post... you only found one person and you believed him ignorantly instead of looking at the fact and what is more common sense.

Let's see... Hezbollah hides behind people they are defending? If so, why haven't they found any Hezbollah in the Qana massacre? Or, i might add, in all the other civilian territories that were bombed???

Let me guess of your answer... "They hide there, then before Israel is about to hit they get intellegence of it and run... leaving the civilians there to die."

Maybe you should use your own brain instead of listening to other idiots.

Kidman


This 'only one person' you mention is the guy whos' job it is to find this stuff out. It's not like they asked a janitor or a bus driver. This guy knows what he's sees. And he sees Hezbollah acting as cowards. Storing and shooting missles from civilians yards.
Reply

wilberhum
08-11-2006, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
You mean kettle, surely?
Yes. Dang my spell checker. :playing:
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Lamaggad
08-11-2006, 09:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by babybackribs
Way of Life: Undisclosed
U.N.- Hezbollah Are Cowards, To Blame For Civilian Deaths - 1 Week Ago

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...ION=HOME&TEMPL ATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-24-18-23-02


Jul 24, 6:23 PM EDT

U.N. Exec Blames Hezbollah for Deaths

By LAUREN FRAYER
Associated Press Writer

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- The U.N. humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah on Monday of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel.

The militant group has built bunkers and tunnels near the Israeli border to shelter weapons and fighters, and its members easily blend in among civilians.

Jan Egeland spoke to reporters at Larnaca airport in Cyprus late Monday after visiting Lebanon to coordinate an international aid effort. On Sunday, he toured the rubble of Beirut's southern suburbs, a once-teeming Shiite district where Hezbollah had its headquarters.

.....................
...............
...........

© 2006 The Associated Press.


Jan says Hezbollah are cowards. I beleive Jan !
Please post your crap out of this thread... this thread is about the stupid excuse that israel is using for the sake of killing more kids and women...

such an ignorant person.
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wilberhum
08-11-2006, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Lamaggad
Please post your crap out of this thread... this thread is about the stupid excuse that israel is using for the sake of killing more kids and women...

such an ignorant person.
Please post your crap out of this thread... this thread is about the stupid excuse that Hezbollah is using for the sake of killing more kids and women...

such an ignorant person
Reply

Kidman
08-11-2006, 10:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by babybackribs
This 'only one person' you mention is the guy whos' job it is to find this stuff out. It's not like they asked a janitor or a bus driver. This guy knows what he's sees. And he sees Hezbollah acting as cowards. Storing and shooting missles from civilians yards.
Ok.. I am telling you to look at the facts, not what this one guy is saying. Look at everything else buddy... look at the facts i gave you.

Kidman
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wilberhum
08-11-2006, 10:36 PM
Kidman & babybackribbs
Do you think every thing one side has done is right and everything the other side has done is wrong?
Do you exclude the posibility that there is a mixture of good and bad on both sides?
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Kidman
08-11-2006, 10:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Kidman & babybackribbs
Do you think every thing one side has done is right and everything the other side has done is wrong?
Do you exclude the posibility that there is a mixture of good and bad on both sides?
I don't exclude the possibility, but I agree with Hezbollah 100% with what they are doing and how they are handling things... I couldn't have run it better myself... I believe they are truely following the words of Allah and Allah is proud of their courage.

Kidman
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wilberhum
08-11-2006, 10:52 PM
Kidman
I don't exclude the possibility, but
The "but" perty well covers it. If must be real simple for people that live in a black and white world. But then, that is just another reality excape.
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Kidman
08-11-2006, 11:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Kidman

The "but" perty well covers it. If must be real simple for people that live in a black and white world. But then, that is just another reality excape.
I'm not escaping reality here. If they did something i didn't approve of then i would not lie just to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Kidman
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wilberhum
08-11-2006, 11:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
I'm not escaping reality here. If they did something i didn't approve of then i would not lie just to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Kidman
Is the reverse true? Do you only give the benefit of doubt to those that you support? Is the other side always wrong?
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guyabano
08-12-2006, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
I'm not escaping reality here. If they did something i didn't approve of then i would not lie just to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Kidman
Of course you would ! Don't deny that!
There were lot of threads where have been prooven, shown pictures and videos of atrocities of the hezbollah, and still, some here, including you, pretend, it is only conspiracies, or lies !
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
08-13-2006, 12:30 AM
:sl:

Hezbollah using civilians as sheilds? Well, then, what about Israel?:



Not too old, but if happened then, surely its happening now as well.

:w:
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Woodrow
08-13-2006, 01:00 AM
Excellent post Ahmed. One good verifiable picture can show the Palestinian view better than any written word.
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Lamaggad
08-13-2006, 02:48 AM
Ahmad you are the best... picture never lie what so ever.
some people here doesn't understand the israeli ideology, they don't understand the hate that thy carry against Ararabs... they don't understand how those zionists think that they are above all mankind and above all rules and all religions.

they allow for them selves what God have fobidden them... they keep killing, destroy, bomb... etc. and at the end they punish them selves in suturday thinking that they can be forgevin from the greatest sins they have made to civilians...

the hole "destroying Hezb Allah" excuse was actually to destroy Lebanon not Hezb Allah, having a war with Hezb Allah was just an excuse to destroy Lebanon's infrastructure...

such cowards.
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Hashim_507
08-13-2006, 03:16 AM
Lamaggad i want ask you question...
Why can't arab brothers and sisters unite?
Do you think this uccupation in palestine would have happen if they had united?
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brainiac
08-13-2006, 03:32 AM
While the photo of the kid tied to the jeep is crazy, I don't think this action got anyone killed. Hezbollahs cowardice has gotten hundreds of Lebanese killed.
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nimrod
08-13-2006, 03:52 AM
Woodrow, surely you see the, Apples to Oranges, propaganda factor in the use of that photo. Don’t you?

Thanks
Nimrod

Just incase you didn’t, stones verses Israeli missles?
Reply

Woodrow
08-13-2006, 04:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nimrod
Woodrow, surely you see the, Apples to Oranges, propaganda factor in the use of that photo. Don’t you?

Thanks
Nimrod

Just incase you didn’t, stones verses Israeli missles?
There is nothing to compare. If everybody would stick to posting and showing verifiable facts and photo's, the entire picture would be seen and not just the conjectures and opinions of us as individuals. No single picture or valid news story is going to show the entire picture and the whole picture will have many factors. The truth will not be comparing apples and oranges, but it most likely will contain apples and oranges.

I think the real beauty of that article is that it also gave some strong statements by a non-government Jewish Leader.
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guyabano
08-13-2006, 07:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ähmed
:sl:

Hezbollah using civilians as sheilds? Well, then, what about Israel?:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4...nshielddv1.jpg

Not too old, but if happened then, surely its happening now as well.

:w:
This pictures show something, but also show nothing. The kid has been caught for smashing stones on jew military. So, then? That happens daily. Now where is the proove, that this kid has also been used as a human child. I just see this child sitting on the top of a jeep, rather relax.
IMHO, just another simple propaganda story, nothing more!

But this is my favorite quote, THE quote of the day:
picture never lie what so ever.
by Lamaggad

;D
Reply

Lamaggad
08-13-2006, 07:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
There is nothing to compare. If everybody would stick to posting and showing verifiable facts and photo's, the entire picture would be seen and not just the conjectures and opinions of us as individuals. No single picture or valid news story is going to show the entire picture and the whole picture will have many factors. The truth will not be comparing apples and oranges, but it most likely will contain apples and oranges.

I think the real beauty of that article is that it also gave some strong statements by a non-government Jewish Leader.
AGREED 100%
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Lamaggad
08-13-2006, 07:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hashim_507
Lamaggad i want ask you question...
Why can't arab brothers and sisters unite?
bcz basically we never chose our Arab leader, we do not have democratic election in the Arab world... Finally it started to happened in Lebanon and Palestine... that's why we have Hamas and Hezb Allah now, whom are there to look after our needs (prisoners, freedom and Justice).
Do you think this uccupation in palestine would have happen if they had united?
Ofcourse, the Arab leader have betrayed us and betrayed each other, and they are the one who gave israel Palestine... they have betrayed Palestinians, they didn't even fight with honor against israel... most of them were there to help israel to enter Palestine instead if kicking them out. they went after their own needs instead of the Arab world future that is ruined since israel came to our Arab Muslim lands.
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Hashim_507
08-13-2006, 08:29 AM
Lamaggad, well get rid of the puppet leaders and you will see good changes. Getting rid of them aint about war or conflicts, a smart way could be perfect stregedy. Elections, media wars, economy shutdown and ect, they will weaken by doing those actions..
Reply

Lamaggad
08-13-2006, 08:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hashim_507
Lamaggad, well get rid of the puppet leaders and you will see good changes. Getting rid of them aint about war or conflicts, a smart way could be perfect stregedy. Elections, media wars, economy shutdown and ect, they will weaken by doing those actions..
Insha'ALlah that will happen soon, to be honest.. after this war, this is our only chance to speak out loud to get rid of them... some of them have betrayed Lebanon and blamed Hezb Allah bcz they are shia'a...

Hezb Allah have won the war in the ground weather they are accepting the defeat or not... now it's our opportunity to blow up on those betrayers and have clean and honest elections instead
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
08-13-2006, 02:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
This pictures show something, but also show nothing. The kid has been caught for smashing stones on jew military. So, then? That happens daily. Now where is the proove, that this kid has also been used as a human child. I just see this child sitting on the top of a jeep, rather relax.
IMHO, just another simple propaganda story, nothing more!

But this is my favorite quote, THE quote of the day:

by Lamaggad

;D
I didnt expect any better. You are blind to everything that Israel and America does. So be it.

Why can't arab brothers and sisters unite?
I think the issue is greater than that. This is more than just a war on arabs. Its a war against Islam, and until the Muslim Ummah realizes that, and puts aside petty nationalistic differences, victory will be too far. They dont want a pure Islamic State anywhere in the world. They will fight tooth and nail to stop that from occuring.

118. O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitânah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers,) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand.
119. Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e. you believe in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in your Book, the Qur'ân]. And when they meet you, they say, "We believe". But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: "Perish in your rage. Certainly, Allâh knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets)."120. If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but if some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it. But if you remain patient and become Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2), not the least harm will their cunning do to you. Surely, Allâh surrounds all that they do.


:w:
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guyabano
08-13-2006, 06:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ähmed
I didnt expect any better. You are blind to everything that Israel and America does. So be it.
Oh, so please tell me exactly what you see in the pic?
I didn't mention that I'm against or for any side, I just gave my opinion to what I see ! I'm not like many here, just blind of hatred, that I can't see the truth anymore!
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
08-13-2006, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Oh, so please tell me exactly what you see in the pic?
I didn't mention that I'm against or for any side, I just gave my opinion to what I see ! I'm not like many here, just blind of hatred, that I can't see the truth anymore!
I saw an innocent palestinian child being used as a sheild. What did you see?
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Keltoi
08-13-2006, 06:49 PM
I saw a child tied to the hood of a car, for what purpose I cannot say. Possibly as a human shield, but there is nothing from that photo to suggest the child was in any danger.
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brainiac
08-14-2006, 12:56 AM
... saw a child tied to the hood of a car, for what purpose I cannot say. Possibly as a human shield, but there is nothing from that photo to suggest the child was in any danger...

The kid may have stopped people from throwing stones. The Lebanese civilians being killed because of Hezbollah are supposed to thwart missles. That won't work. We need Hezbolah to stop launching Katushas' from civlian areas.
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Keltoi
08-14-2006, 12:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by brainiac
... saw a child tied to the hood of a car, for what purpose I cannot say. Possibly as a human shield, but there is nothing from that photo to suggest the child was in any danger...

The kid may have stopped people from throwing stones. The Lebanese civilians being killed because of Hezbollah are supposed to thwart missles. That won't work. We need Hezbolah to stop launching Katushas' from civlian areas.
That was my first thought, that he was tied to the hood to stop other children from throwing stones at vehicles and what not, but I don't know for sure so I didn't suggest that.
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brainiac
08-14-2006, 01:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
... that he was tied to the hood to stop other children from throwing stones at vehicles and what not...


That is what the article under the picture says. A far cry from bringing air strikes on a neighborhood, as the cowards of Hezbollah have repeatedly done. Even the UI.N. has condemned them at the very beginning of the war.
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nimrod
08-14-2006, 01:57 AM
Ahmed “They don’t want a pure Islamic State anywhere in the world”, that is not true at all as far as the average Joe where I live.

Ansar has been telling us how wonderful a truly Islamic state would be, even the slave girls would love their masters and be willing partners in bearing the off-spring that would usher in the perfect government/religion in all parts of the globe.

Surely you would agree that the evil western world couldn’t stop that from happening some where in this world “They don’t want a pure Islamic State anywhere in the world”.

If there isn’t a truly Islamic State today, whose fault is that?

Thanks
Nimrod
Reply

guyabano
08-14-2006, 06:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ähmed
I saw an innocent palestinian child being used as a sheild. What did you see?
I saw a not-so-innocent teeny tied up on a car. I'm pretty sure, he smashed again stones at the soldiers, that's why they put him out.
Where is the proove of the human shield?
C'mon, this makes me laugh !
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Obi-Wan
08-14-2006, 10:40 AM
HRW's report: Fatal Strikes -- Israel’s Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon

Summary

Since the start of the conflict, Israeli forces have consistently launched artillery and air attacks with limited or dubious military gain but excessive civilian cost. In dozens of attacks, Israeli forces struck an area with no apparent military target. In some cases, the timing and intensity of the attack, the absence of a military target, as well as return strikes on rescuers, suggest that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians.

The Israeli government claims that it targets only Hezbollah, and that fighters from the group are using civilians as human shields, thereby placing them at risk. Human Rights Watch found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack. Hezbollah occasionally did store weapons in or near civilian homes and fighters placed rocket launchers within populated areas or near U.N. observers, which are serious violations of the laws of war because they violate the duty to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties. However, those cases do not justify the IDF’s extensive use of indiscriminate force which has cost so many civilian lives. In none of the cases of civilian deaths documented in this report is there evidence to suggest that Hezbollah forces or weapons were in or near the area that the IDF targeted during or just prior to the attack.
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Muezzin
08-14-2006, 12:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
I saw a not-so-innocent teeny tied up on a car. I'm pretty sure, he smashed again stones at the soldiers, that's why they put him out.
Where is the proove of the human shield?
C'mon, this makes me laugh !
Where is the proof that he was smashing stones at the soldiers, as you put it?
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sameer
08-14-2006, 12:50 PM
hmmmm most non believers here make me laugh...... because they claim to be for peace, and to be neutral...but yet alwasy in thier words they always call Hebollah cowards and never call israel anything. They claim that Hezbollah hides among civilians, but never ask the question as to why there are many civiliaNs dead and hardly any Hezbolah. They claim that Hezbollah fire rockets from civilian villiages, but they dont see that Haifa has military bases within it.
They say that the muslims are one sided and yet they overlook the obvious.

Even in the picture..they claim that the "teenie" deserved to be there cause he was probaly throwing stones...but was he in israel throwing stones? or was he in palestine throwing stones trying to defend his country/family/ honor?
Is the material the tank is made of soo brittle/fragile that small stones would damage it? Its seems so according to some "neutral" ppl here.
hmmmm...i gues to the neutral ppl the material the boys and girls are made out of can withstand armour piercing bullets.
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guyabano
08-14-2006, 03:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Where is the proof that he was smashing stones at the soldiers, as you put it?
oh good, one ! Agree with you ! So finally, what do we see? A young teenie sitting on the hood of a jeep doing nothing !

Well, voilà, now we're getting somewhere! So please no more stories about "human shield" bogus stories !
Reply

Obi-Wan
08-14-2006, 04:10 PM
Shovrim Shtika

Breaking the Silence

During our combat service we’ve handled many different missions. We have one mission left: to talk, tell and not keep anything hidden.

“Breaking The Silence” (“Shovrim Shtika” in Hebrew) should serve as a warning sign to Israeli society. We are alerting about irreversible corruption.

Targeting the Children

We took up positions of ‘Straw Widow’ (a disguised ambush). We were told that this ‘Straw Widow’ was against armed people and against people climbing on our armed vehicles. Our APCs (armed personnel carriers) were cruising 24 hours a day close to buildings (in Jenin), waiting for kids to climb on them, trying to dislodge the top -mounted MG (machine gun) and to shoot them. We had fixed positions inside Jenin’s casbah, the APCs were on the streets, below us. They were moving continuously.

We were expressly told that we were just waiting for someone to climb on an APC, and ordered to shoot to kill. We quickly understood that we weren’t expected to deal with armed people as no armed Palestinian would roam the streets with so many APCs around. They (our authorities) were looking for children or plain people daring to climb on an APC or on any other armored vehicle. We understood that from the talks with our officers.

After a day or two, a 12-year old kid climbed on one of the APCs. There were lots of guesses about his age. First they said he was 8, later, that he was 12. I don’t know. In any case he climbed on an APC and one of our sharpshooters killed him. I already mentioned, we were looking for kids. The neighboring company also had an incident with a kid or teenager, climbing an APC, who was also killed. Some of us said that this whole operation was unnecessary as its purpose was to kill kids, while others said that it was very good.
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Keltoi
08-14-2006, 04:11 PM
No offense, but organizations with an agenda usually aren't the best sources for this sort of information.
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Obi-Wan
08-15-2006, 09:24 AM
So Israeli soldiers are liars? Is that it Keltoi

Does the IDF have an agenda? Why do you believe the IDF when they say they are shooting at Hezbollah rather than bridges, cars filled with civilians fleeing as per instructions, aid convoys, milk factories, petrol stations, etc.

They hit a UN post! Did they think Hezbollah were inside? That Hezbollah had hidden rockets there? No. Hezbollah had been in the area hours before. So they shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. (14 times).

And then dropped a precision guided bomb on it.
And that after having been in contact with the UN post, and after having given assurances that the bombardment would stop. But it didn't stop even then! They shelled the UN rescue team.

But the IDF is trustworthy. Shovrim Shtika is not. That's your view?
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SirZubair
08-15-2006, 09:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
I don't exclude the possibility, but I agree with Hezbollah 100% with what they are doing and how they are handling things... I couldn't have run it better myself... I believe they are truely following the words of Allah and Allah is proud of their courage.

Kidman
So if you were incharge, you would kill as many innocent people or more?

Subhan'allah.
Reply

SirZubair
08-15-2006, 10:06 AM
This is ironic..

..actually, this is simply sad, and pathetic.

I hear alot of "Bida'h!" on this forum, when a Pin drops, the self-righteous people here (Even some Mods) jump up and shout "INNOVATION!"

But when it comes to issues such as these,.. what happens? They either shut up, or they show their Unislamic Side.

What does hezballah do? They are doing exactly what israel is doing, they are just as bad as Israel is.

Is it a Prophetic teaching? Did the ProphetS teach us to harm our 'enemies' in such ways? to hurt them more than they've hurt us?

And what is really PATHETIC is that alot of muslims (yes, alot of the muslims in this forum as well) side with Hezballah simply because they are Muslims.

Islam is NOT a TRIBE! The day i accepted Islam, i did not join a tribe. I accepted a Religon which stood for the truth, a religon which sided with good (which isnt present on EITHER side in this situation) and avoids the bad.

I am sorry if any of this offends anyone, but i choose to side with the Truth, with the Muslims or Without the Muslims. Too many muslims out there are Misrepresenting islam. Unfortunetly, some of you are one of them.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammed s.a.w, the Final prophet, his mission was to Establish Islam and remove Ignorance, but sadly alot of Muslims are accepting Ignorance as a part of Islam.

Purify your thoughts, purify your heart.

Follow islam, not whatever the hell you're following that is clouding your judgement. Stop being such proud people.

Simply Pathetic.
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
So if you were incharge, you would kill as many innocent people or more?

Subhan'allah.
I would have avoided killing innocent people, as Hezbollah tried to do... but at the same time I would be forced to shoot rockets into Israel, as Hezbollah did.

What would you have done? Just watch your family members get massicred?

Kidman
Reply

wilberhum
08-15-2006, 05:38 PM
ou would have avoided killing innocent people and you woud shoot rockets into Israel civilian areas.
Good!
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 05:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair


But when it comes to issues such as these,.. what happens? They either shut up, or they show their Unislamic Side.
Is it unislamic to help Muslims around the world??? What is unislamic about that? I forgot the exact quote in the Quran, but it says something like ' how can you sleep well at night knowing your muslim brother someplace else is in pain?'

What does hezballah do? They are doing exactly what israel is doing, they are just as bad as Israel is.
They are not doing anything like what Israel is doing... they want to fight military to military... and not involve civilians... Sayed Hasan has said this many times in his speaches. The only reason they shot rockets into Israel was because they had no other means to fight against Israels air raids. Also, they places they shot their rockets were already evacuated, except the few that didn't want to leave their homes... and even those people knew the timings that Hezbollah's rockets would hit, so they would take cover underground during those times....

Don't compare to Isreal, who bombed round the clock, people not knowing who or where they were going to hit, killing over 1,000 civilians of which 1/3 were children!!!

Is it a Prophetic teaching? Did the ProphetS teach us to harm our 'enemies' in such ways? to hurt them more than they've hurt us?
The Prophet taught us to protect our Muslim brothers and Sisters. Hurt them more than they've hurt us??? who are you talking about? am i lost?

And what is really PATHETIC is that alot of muslims (yes, alot of the muslims in this forum as well) side with Hezballah simply because they are Muslims.
I side with Hezbollah because I believe they are true followers to the Prophet and his Teachings... and they are the only ones standing up to the racist, oppressionist Israelis. These people are harming Muslims everyday... and you don't do anything... but when a group like Hezbollah comes along to stop the madness you say bad things about them??????

Our beloved Prophet Muhammed s.a.w, the Final prophet, his mission was to Establish Islam and remove Ignorance, but sadly alot of Muslims are accepting Ignorance as a part of Islam.
I agree, please learn more about Hezbollah before you talk bad about them. And when in doubt you are to give them benefit of the doubt until you learn about them and know what they are fighting for.

Woww... i still can't believe people are blaming Hezbollah for them standing up to oppressors... here, watch this bro... just saw this today, thought it was a good watch...

http://dl1.dumpalink.com/media/Kxfjw...Ffv3g0BBf6.wmv


Kidman
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 05:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
ou would have avoided killing innocent people and you woud shoot rockets into Israel civilian areas.
Good!
no, i would just sit on my butt all day and watch my family get bombed one by one.

Shooting the rockets into Israel was only a way to show them that the Hezbollah is still there, and strong... If they didn't then Israel would look as if they are doing good, and people would think they are actually killing the Hezbollah in all the air raids they do on civilians... but this way, people are like "ok, your killing a bunch of civilians and no Hezbollah, and Hezbollah is still firing rockets" which forces Israel to come into Lebanon on ground, then they can fight military to military. Exactly what Hezbollah wanted.

If you don't understand psychological warfare then please stop putting the blame on what is a right action.

Kidman
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wilberhum
08-15-2006, 05:53 PM
So much better than peace. Who in there right mind would want peace.
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 06:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
So much better than peace. Who in there right mind would want peace.
If there was peace Hezbollah wouldn't have a need to exist.

"wilberhum: Of course, who else would want to kill the Israeli's?"

"Kidman: if the Isreali's would stop killing people, then people wouldn't hate them so much."

"wilberhum: If people wouldn't hate them so much, then they would stop killing people."

"kidman: the only reason people hate them is because of their racist views and violent means"

and on and on and on... lol... I can have this argument with myself... i already know what your going to say... i guess it comes down to who you believe is justified in their actions and who is not... who is protecting and who is attacking.

Kidman
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SirZubair
08-15-2006, 06:39 PM
Kidman, habib, inshort, i am not against what hezballah is trying to achieve.

I am against the way they are going about it.
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wilberhum
08-15-2006, 07:12 PM
Kidman,
Those that converse with themselves, converse with an idot.
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
Kidman, habib, inshort, i am not against what hezballah is trying to achieve.

I am against the way they are going about it.

Ok... I respect that answer. But what other means are there?

For over 25 years now they have been trying to get the Sheeba Farms back by negotiations with the U.N and so forth, and they ended up taking Israel's side... saying that the Sheeba Farms was part of Syria and Israel took it during the 6 day war... but when you ask anyone in Syria... you look who's still living on the land (lebanese citizens)... and if you look at any dated map you will see it was Lebanon's land.

Then you have the Lebanese Prisoners. They have been asking for them back, some of the prisoners have been there for over 25 years in Israeli Prisons. Hezbollah asked and waited, peacefully for many many years... Israel continues advancing into Lebanon from time to time, and even continues taking civilians and throwing them in their prisons.

If you want refrences i can get them.

What other means do they have? Last time Israel came across the border, they took them prisoners and was about to make indirect negotiations and got some of their prisoners free, but not all... and still not the land.

Even last year Israel went into Lebanon and took a lebanese fisherman prisoner, w/out a trial.

Then, on top of that, the way the Israelis are treating our Palestinian brothers on a daily basis... that is horrible... no human should ever suffer in that way, ever.

Now for the options:
1. negotiating: Tried that, does not work. Israel does not talk to Hezbollah and does not listen to U.N when they are told to do something

2. Fight back: With Jihad rules applied, meaning to attack those who are attacking you.. leaving innocent people out of it to the best of your ability.

*The took soldiers, they didn't take innocent civilians. They kept them in a safe place -> promised by Sayed Hasan... Wanted Indirect negotiations with Israel for the exchange of prisoners...

Sorry for going off on you before bro...

Kidman
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 08:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Kidman,
Those that converse with themselves, converse with an idot.
lol.. didn't have a real reply, so had to try to get back at me by changing the subject huh? Even though i don't have the same viewpoints as you.. and you are like my rival on this forumn, lol.. i have to say it's been a pleasure talkin to you. take care, see ya around,

Kidman
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wilberhum
08-15-2006, 10:55 PM
No you think there are good guys and winners. In fact there is only bad guys and loosers.
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Keltoi
08-16-2006, 02:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
No you think there are good guys and winners. In fact there is only bad guys and loosers.
Yes, I've found many in this forum view war like a video game, with bad guys and superheros. I know that much of that is because of their age, but sometimes even age doesn't cure one of that romanticized view of life and death.
Reply

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