UK “terror” plot: Another absurd publicity stunt?

[sonz]

Yesterday the British intelligence announced that it foiled a major "terror" plot to blow up at least 10 U.S.-bound planes, an attack that UK officials say could have surpassed 9/11.

Britain and the United States immediately raised their nationwide terror alerts to the highest levels, indicating that an attack is "imminent". UK intelligence officials say, without providing any shred of evidence, that the bombers were planning to blow up several planes by using liquid explosives carried in soft-drink bottles, and that the bombs were supposed to be assembled on the aircraft and detonated with electronic equipment.

British police, who said that the alleged attacks could have caused “mass murder on an unimaginable scale”, arrested 24 people suspected of involvement in the "terror" plot. Pakistan also arrested seven Pakistanis, including two British nationals of Pakistani origin, on suspicion that they served as local "facilitators" for the two UK nationals.

U.S. and UK officials quickly said, again without providing any evidence, that some of the suspects belonged to the terror network al-Qaeda. A federal law enforcement official in Washington simply claimed that “the scheme to strike a range of targets at roughly the same time is an earmark of al-Qaeda”, according to the Associated Press news agency.

Many of the 24 suspects arrested in the UK were said to be British Muslims, and neighbors claimed that at least three of them were new converts to Islam. Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson, from London's metropolitan police, claimed yesterday that the alleged bomb plot concerned "people who might masquerade within a community behind certain faiths". The term "community" is often used in Britain to refer to people from the country's minority religions and ethnic groups, particularly the 1.65 million Muslims, who account for 2.8 percent of Britain's 60 million-strong population.

The Muslim council of Britain, the UK’s largest Islamic organization, said that such allegations could lead to a backlash against the Muslim community. "All right-thinking people must support the police in the intelligence-led actions they take to foil plots," said MCB spokesman Inayat Bunglawala. "However, there will also be a sense of unease about how the arrests may be used by some far-right groups and others to portray once again British Muslims as a community as a huge reservoir of potential terrorists…We have seen similar high-profile raids in the past where people have been arrested only to be released without charge."

In the United States, President Bush again angered the Muslim community by using insensitive and inflammatory terms. The American President said yesterday that the alleged terror plot showed that the U.S. was still at war with “Islamic fascists" five years after 9/11.

Edina Lekovic, a spokeswoman for the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles, said she was concerned that Bush’s "Islamic fascists" tag would cast suspicion on all Muslims, even the vast majority who wants to live in safety. "The problem with the phrase is it attaches the religion of Islam to tyranny and fascism, rather than isolating the threat to a specific group of individuals," she said.

Meanwhile, some analysts say the revelation of the alleged "terror" plot at this critical time is carefully designed to divert the world’s attention from the ongoing Israeli offensive in Lebanon, which has so far killed more than 1,000 Lebanese civilians.

American and British leaders are facing intense pressure at home and abroad for their handling of the Middle East crisis. President Bush has said from day one that Israel has “the right to defend herself.” And the UK Prime Minister Tony Blair’s position has mirrored that of the United States since the conflict began. Both leaders have repeatedly refused to condemn Israel’s actions in Lebanon as “disproportionate”, and have been reluctant to call for an immediate ceasefire, allowing Israel to crush Hezbollah and possibly kill more civilians.

At the same time, the U.S. and UK rushed to pin the blame for Israel’s unjustified offensive in Lebanon on Syria and Iran. President Bush said right after Israel launched its assault: “For the first time we've really begun to address with clarity the root causes of the conflict and that is, terrorist activity – namely, Hezbollah that's housed and encouraged by Syria, financed by Iran.” The American President even tried to get the world’s most powerful leaders to sign a document condemning Tehran and Damascus for causing the current Middle East conflict. But Russia, China and other nations said there was no evidence to support such allegations.

Some analysts even say that the alleged "terror" plot in the UK threatens to take the world into World War III if the U.S., Britain and Israel succeeded in diverting the world’s attention from the Middle East crisis and blamed all the chaos on Hezbollah, Syria or Iran.

Not so long ago, the world’s attention was focused on Afghanistan and Iraq, where the U.S.-led occupation forces are being defeated. At the same, the sliding dollar and rising oil prices were pushing the controllers of Dick Cheney and the neocons to rush into World War III, which they think could heal all their wounds.

Given the current set of circumstances, one might wonder: Is it any surprise that the British intelligence chose to launch yet another absurd publicity stunt at such a critical time? And how long would the Western world believe such alleged "terror" plots uncovered by the secret intelligence agencies?

[Najiullah]

thanks for the post bro

[Keltoi]

First of all, authorities rarely release evidence until the operation itself is complete, which it obviously is not.
The rest borders on a conspiracy theory, but as far as the Al-Qaeda connection goes, I believe the martyrdom tape and the Pakistan link have led many experts to make that assumption, but nothing has been said for certain.

[H4RUN]

:sl:
it's kind of ironic that they just happened to 'go for the kill' at this time, oh and there's also a war going on at the same time....some sort of diversion? distract the people? take the attention away from the 'war' somewhat?
oh and 10 odd planes they say? well it's not like going and stealing bikes now isit? So 10? a bit sensationalised?
ma'salama
:w:

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[Keltoi]

:sl:
it's kind of ironic that they just happened to 'go for the kill' at this time, oh and there's also a war going on at the same time....some sort of diversion? distract the people? take the attention away from the 'war' somewhat?
oh and 10 odd planes they say? well it's not like going and stealing bikes now isit? So 10? a bit sensationalised?
ma'salama
:w:

More conspiracy and conjecture based on nothing.

[Trumble]

No, I don't think it's a "publicity stunt"... the idea just smacks of unreasoned denial to me. The economic consequences alone of the action taken have and will be severe, far more than would be justified than in "deflecting attention" from Afghanistan, Iraq, or Lebanon for a few days.

You wonder if it really needs a plot such as that which was planned to actually succeed before some people will face up to reality... or if even that would be enough.

[Keltoi]

No, I don't think it's a "publicity stunt"... the idea just smacks of unreasoned denial to me. The economic consequences alone of the action taken have and will be severe, far more than would be justified than in "deflecting attention" from Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, or anything else.

You wonder if it really needs a plot such as that which was planned to actually succeed before some people will face up to reality... or if even that would be enough.

Well, there is plenty of denial that people of Arab descent were responsible for 9-11, so if the past is any indication, even if the attack was carried out there would be those who would rather point to a conspiracy than face reality.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Freemason plot to make the masses fearful and inturn be decieved about Islam +o(:zip:

:w:

[Fishman]

:sl:

Freemason plot to make the masses fearful and inturn be decieved about Islam +o(:zip:

:w:

:sl:
Freemasons? :D
:w:

[Muezzin]

:sl:
Freemasons? :D
:w:

Not to be confused with Half-Price Masons and Two-For-One Masons.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Lol. It was a joke....but it might be true.. ive met a few masons...had fun making fun of them :D

:w:

[Fishman]

:sl:

Lol. It was a joke....but it might be true.. ive met a few masons...had fun making fun of them :D

:w:

:sl:
yeah, a few of my relatives are Masons. No idea what they do.
:w:

[Skillganon]

:sl:
yeah, a few of my relatives are Masons. No idea what they do.
:w:

I think they do mason work.

See! I am a geniouse :D

[InToTheRain]

The abuse of power in media just make me +o(

[wilberhum]

Conspiracy Theories are great. They allow you to escape from reality.
Besides it is always a good thing to blame the ones you hate for everything.

[Wild Bill]

:sl:
it's kind of ironic that they just happened to 'go for the kill' at this time, oh and there's also a war going on at the same time....some sort of diversion? distract the people? take the attention away from the 'war' somewhat?
oh and 10 odd planes they say? well it's not like going and stealing bikes now isit? So 10? a bit sensationalised?
ma'salama
:w:

There is always a war going on, for years. A person could say this at anytime. Kind of weak accusation.

[Durrah]

Realistically, we have to take this in perspective and look at previous 'bomb plots'. I mean forest gate, we know the chemical bomb plot there was completly unfounded, but the media practically scare mongered everyone.

Anyone remember the old trafford stadium bomb plot? Another media publicised affair. Apprenatly some guys were going to blow up Old Trafford Stadium (the home of Man Unitied) with garden soil fertizlier (being an arsenal supporter, that wouldnt be such a bad thing :D - im kidding!). Now how many people know that all detainees for that partciualar affair were relased 10 days later with NO charge or caution! the media said virtually nothing on this matter afterwards, leaving people's rememebring nothing but the allegation and not the truth.

also, we have the stockwell shooting after 7/7 with Mr Jean Charles Menizies being shot 8 times in the head, after he was 'suspected' of being a sucide bomber. Well we all know how rubbish the police were on with the 'intelligence' [such an oxymoron] and tracked the wrong man and no-one noticing! And then the head of the met police Sir Ian Blair lying about Jean's real identity on national tv and claiming that he was a sucide bomber when he clearly knew he wasn't and that the police stuffed up big time!

so with that in mind, its best not to make any jugdements till we see some EVIDENCE ourselves and not PR from the metrpolitian police.

[wilberhum]

I would rather they error on the side of caution. I also would perfer harrassment to making funural arangements.

[Wild Bill]

I would rather they error on the side of caution. I also would perfer harrassment to making funural arangements.

Exactly.

[scentsofjannah]

Realistically, we have to take this in perspective and look at previous 'bomb plots'. I mean forest gate, we know the chemical bomb plot there was completly unfounded, but the media practically scare mongered everyone.

Anyone remember the old trafford stadium bomb plot? Another media publicised affair. Apprenatly some guys were going to blow up Old Trafford Stadium (the home of Man Unitied) with garden soil fertizlier (being an arsenal supporter, that wouldnt be such a bad thing :D - im kidding!). Now how many people know that all detainees for that partciualar affair were relased 10 days later with NO charge or caution! the media said virtually nothing on this matter afterwards, leaving people's rememebring nothing but the allegation and not the truth.

also, we have the stockwell shooting after 7/7 with Mr Jean Charles Menizies being shot 8 times in the head, after he was 'suspected' of being a sucide bomber. Well we all know how rubbish the police were on with the 'intelligence' [such an oxymoron] and tracked the wrong man and no-one noticing! And then the head of the met police Sir Ian Blair lying about Jean's real identity on national tv and claiming that he was a sucide bomber when he clearly knew he wasn't and that the police stuffed up big time!

so with that in mind, its best not to make any jugdements till we see some EVIDENCE ourselves and not PR from the metrpolitian police.

and the ricin 'bomb plot' that collapsed in court!!!!!!

[scentsofjannah]

Thanks for the article brother sonz

[scentsofjannah]

Conspiracy Theories are great. They allow you to escape from reality.
Besides it is always a good thing to blame the ones you hate for everything.

and what about your ridiculous conspiracy theories? :D

Muslims are not going to believe unless evidence is presented and the suspects are taken to court in order to be tried. 1 suspect has now been released WITHOUT CHARGE.

Whats going on in the media is pure speculation replete with such words 'It is thought' it is believed' 'alleged plot' etc etc...please refer to Sister Durrah's post for past 'plots' that were found to be complete hoaxes.

i think its you and others who just after a few mins of hearing this ..make up your minds and start believing in conspiracy theories without any proof or even waiting for the complete investigation.

[H4RUN]

There is always a war going on, for years. A person could say this at anytime. Kind of weak accusation.

:sl:
ofcourse there has always been a war, theres bound to be, but in recent weeks hasn't there been a slight change in tempo? Hezbolla, Israel, Lebanon and what not....
:w:

[Durrah]

:sl:

and the ricin 'bomb plot' that collapsed in court!!!!!!

Wow, i had no idea. Thanks for telling me. Im definatly going to look it up and make a note of it.

[Isaac]

yes, exactly sister, the ricinn plot, which brought the uk to a standstill. Was it not the same amount of coverage, was it not the same allegations, was it not that they had links to al-qaeda, were they not muslims, were they not going to commit mass murder, were they not 48 hours away from brining disater to the underground, were they not building chemical weapons ontop of a chemist. Did they not have their names publised, did they not have their houses raided, did not this create a negative image fo islam, did this not cause community tension, did this not cause britain to be on a high alert. To all the obve YES YES YES. And the end case - CASE COLLAPSED. What happend to the so called terrorist? EXCELLENT QUESTION! Its strange how the media did not catch up on this............. You now i always belive the media will publish anything that sells, regardless if its true or not, and in a way they dismiss the innocent till proven guilty theory.

One piece of advice, try to tell the other side of the story. Thhe side that will embaress the government, and may make some of the people realise, that this unacceptable. Once ok, understandable - poor intelligence, they made a mistake, but its not the first time!!!!

You know i would half beilive that these people proably did intend to do something, but when in the past like the RICIN PLOT, or much present the FOREST GATE PLOT, they are found innocnet it dont have much trust in the intelligence. I personally hope that this case is also like the other, poor intelligence and mis-communication between pakistan. Come on intelligece from pakistan.

[Ninth_Scribe]

First of all, authorities rarely release evidence until the operation itself is complete, which it obviously is not.
The rest borders on a conspiracy theory, but as far as the Al-Qaeda connection goes, I believe the martyrdom tape and the Pakistan link have led many experts to make that assumption, but nothing has been said for certain.

The report I have states that spies (narcs) had been assigned to various groups of interest and had been monitoring and reporting on their activities for over a year. Not sure of the connection with Al Qaeda. Those reports are almost impossible to access.

Another lovely day in the neighborhood, huh?

Ninth Scribe

[Durrah]

:sl:

yes, exactly sister, the ricinn plot, which brought the uk to a standstill. Was it not the same amount of coverage, was it not the same allegations, was it not that they had links to al-qaeda, were they not muslims, were they not going to commit mass murder, were they not 48 hours away from brining disater to the underground, were they not building chemical weapons ontop of a chemist. Did they not have their names publised, did they not have their houses raided, did not this create a negative image fo islam, did this not cause community tension, did this not cause britain to be on a high alert. To all the obve YES YES YES. And the end case - CASE COLLAPSED. What happend to the so called terrorist? EXCELLENT QUESTION! Its strange how the media did not catch up on this............. You now i always belive the media will publish anything that sells, regardless if its true or not, and in a way they dismiss the innocent till proven guilty theory.

:thumbs_up so true. But you know why the media dont catch up with these cases once they'll all cleared, because the objective has alrealy been fufuiled and thats imprinting into the minds of everyone, that we're an impending threat , constantly amongst them. I've looked on the large public forums like Channel 4 and the Guardian and its amazing to see the large amounts of people that have refered to the cases that we mentioned as proof, that this apparent threat is real, despite all the cases that we mentioned have fell flat on their faces, and those who were suspected were let go, free!

as for so-called pakistan intelligence, unlike like some brits in this country, those of us who came from those regions: M.E, Asia, Africa (whether we were born or lived there) know the level of toture used to make people into confessing things that they havent commited. I wouldnt be suprised if such methods were used. The tactics used make Guantanomo Bay in Cuba seem like heaven! Which is why the U.S regulary deport suspects to them nations, as they follow no international rules whatsoever (i know the u.s dont neither but atleast they get retruibited if its made public, while elsewhere- good luck!). Also, many of these muslim countries, on their quest on the 'war of terror', many innocent people have been locked up without charge in secret prisons. Egypt is a classic example! You have a beard, wear thobe and pray 5 times a day and so much as breathe a whisper about islam in public, expect to be incarcerated.

[Durrah]

The report I have states that spies (narcs) had been assigned to various groups of interest and had been monitoring and reporting on their activities for over a year. Not sure of the connection with Al Qaeda. Those reports are almost impossible to access.

Another lovely day in the neighborhood, huh?

Ninth Scribe

Well according to many other reports, the guys who were allegdly going to blow up old trafford (manchester), plant ricin on the tube, plant chemical bombs (in forest gate), stockwell 'sucide bomber' were all montiered for many months as well. The police also mentioned that they were been watched by survelience teams as well. Were they terriosts though? No. Was their any tanglable and real evidence aganist them? No. Were they all released without charge (minus Mr Menizies who got shot dead)? Yes.

Remeber, in the eyes of british law (and other democratic countries): Your're innocent untill proven guilty, not the other way round! Lets not loose sight of the fact that ceratin sections of parliement are trying to irdicate the very foundations of british law and that these incidents are being used to justify that.

[wilberhum]

and what about your ridiculous conspiracy theories? :D

Muslims are not going to believe unless evidence is presented and the suspects are taken to court in order to be tried. 1 suspect has now been released WITHOUT CHARGE.

No matter what happens, most Muslims will not accdpt anything that makes another Muslim look bad.

[adi8putra]

No matter what happens, most Muslims will not accdpt anything that makes another Muslim look bad.

on d contrary, most muslims r not. they r peace loving people who i believe r just tired of being scrutinised for everything they do, just bcoz they r muslim. their faith, their way of life, their thinking.....almost everything is mercilessly being compared to d so called western ideals.... not forgetting a lot of accusations of d media on d muslims these days. they r just simply....tired! :heated:

[wilberhum]

on d contrary, most muslims r not. they r peace loving people who i believe r just tired of being scrutinised for everything they do, just bcoz they r muslim. their faith, their way of life, their thinking.....almost everything is mercilessly being compared to d so called western ideals.... not forgetting a lot of accusations of d media on d muslims these days. they r just simply....tired! :heated:

Show me a post where a Muslim has sopken out against a Muslim who has done evil. They will just say he is not a Muslim or blaim some one else for the problem. Most Muslims just refuse to accept any responsibility.

[Zulkiflim]

I would rather they error on the side of caution. I also would perfer harrassment to making funural arangements.

Salaam,

and that kind of thinking has set the ball in motion..

For suspicious intelligence 2 coutnry were bombed and more than 100 000 men womena dn children are dead..

As long as otehr die and you survive it is OK..

and you ask why do other hate the US....
Simple casue you think for your life it is clear we must die...

And so my reply is,for my life i will in self defence kill you and your first..

Does that make sesne to you??

[wilberhum]

So you support terrorism. Why am I not suprised. So you want to kill me and my first born. Another peace loving Muslim. You are the kind of person that makes me support the war on terrorism.

[Zulkiflim]

Show me a post where a Muslim has sopken out against a Muslim who has done evil. They will just say he is not a Muslim or blaim some one else for the problem. Most Muslims just refuse to accept any responsibility.

Salaam,

So you want us to condemn the acions to make you happy?
LOLOL..we know what we read and it is apparent thta even when shown such you wills till conitnue to think that we muslim do not condemn..

Do you understand that when we say an action is not Islamic does not mean that a person stop being a muslim.


And so far i ahve never met any one who say that a muslim is not a muslim.
we can accuse a person from everthing but if he has taekn the shahadah,,he is a muslim..

Osama is a Muslim ,so is Saddam and so on..

No matter what we back our brothers and sister,Osama and Saddam when they die will get a muslim burial and so on...

[Zulkiflim]

So you support terrorism. Why am I not suprised. So you want to kill me and my first born. Another peace loving Muslim. You are the kind of person that makes me support the war on terrorism.

Salaam,

i will kill you and your family not because out of hatred toward you,,but becasue i feel threathened by you and yours.

for your life you are willing to sacrifice my life,so i i cna by right and in the smae context be right to kill you first..

So your hatred started it and we muslim will finish it..ohh and maybe i shall rescue your first borna nd teach him to be a muslim....to reject his father idolatry and evil way...

to respect life and to know that all life is sacred..

But dont worry,in Islam we shall always make sure the orphans know who they are heritage wise,so that ic an explain to your son the way you live in a decadent western lifestyle and what not..

And i do suport the war on terrorism but for me YOU ARE THE TERRORIST...

patato patato..

[wilberhum]

No matter what we back our brothers and sister,Osama and Saddam

Just what I said. As a result you support terrorism.

[Zulkiflim]

Just what I said. As a result you support terrorism.

Salaam,

As i said i do support he war of terror..
but for me the terrorist is you ....and yours..

Osama,saddama nd will always be muslim unless they change religon..

[wilberhum]

Salaam,

As i said i do support he war of terror..
but for me the terrorist is you ....and yours..

Osama,saddama nd will always be muslim unless they change religon..

Thanks for giving support to my statement.

[Zulkiflim]

Thanks for giving support to my statement.

Salaam,

Statement that all muslim are and will alwys be muslim depsite their action..
of course,,but dont worry ,we muslim do not judge faith..

If you were a chriitain i would have said it is pitiful to be chrisitan,many people in history nowadys are no longer refernced as chrisian..like Hitler ..LOL

So brotherhood is in Islam,,,ONE UMMAH,.,.

[Durrah]

Show me a post where a Muslim has sopken out against a Muslim who has done evil. They will just say he is not a Muslim or blaim some one else for the problem. Most Muslims just refuse to accept any responsibility.

Im sorry but why should muslims be collectivly held responsible for the actions of others? Its perpoustrous to expect muslims everyday to some how apoligise or be burden with responsbility for every actions commited by other individuals. I don't give a hoot what some wacko does, thats doesnt mean I agree with it, but its not my problem. I'm responsiable for me, for my actions, what i say and do and nobody else. In the same way you are responsible for your ownself and not the actions of u.s milary, goverment, rogue soliders who have raped and abused people. So please cut the c**p.

[adi8putra]

Show me a post where a Muslim has sopken out against a Muslim who has done evil. They will just say he is not a Muslim or blaim some one else for the problem. Most Muslims just refuse to accept any responsibility.

u wanna a posts....? sure no problem! just read through d links provided below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3059365.stm
http://www.islamfortoday.com/khan09.htm
http://www.islamfortoday.com/qaradawi02.htm

and some excerpts:

"Hijacking Planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."
Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh, Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001
"The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society)."
September 27, 2001 - Fatwa, signed by:
Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, Grand Islamic Scholar and Chairman of the Sunna and Sira Countil, Qatar
Judge Tariq al-Bishri, First Deputy President of the Council d'etat, Egypt
Dr. Muhammad s. al-Awa, Professor of Islamic Law and Shari'a, Egypt
Dr. Haytham al-Khayyat, Islamic scholar, Syria
Fahmi Houaydi, Islamic scholar, Syria
Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, Chairman, North America High Council

"Neither the law of Islam nor its ethical system justify such a crime."
Zaki Badawi, Principal of the Muslim College in London. Cited in Arab News, September 28, 2001.

"It is wrong to kill innocent people. It is also wrong to praise those who kill innocent people."
Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Pakistan. Cited in the New York Times, September 28, 2001.

"What these people stand for is completely against all the principles that Arab Muslims believe in."
King Abdullah II, of Jordan; cited in the Middle East Times, September 28, 2001.

The above statements by high ranking international Muslim scholars and leaders appeared in an advertisement placed by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, in the New York Times, October 17th, 2001 (p. A 17)

"I'm a Muslim. I've been a Muslim for 20 years. I want the world to know the truth about Islam. I wouldn't be here to represent Islam if it were the way the terrorists make it look...Islam is for peace."
Former World Heavyweight boxing champion, Muhammad Ali, at the telethon benefit concert, September 21, 2001.

"Those terrorists must be reading a completely different Quran than the rest of us. This isn't about Islam. It's about terrorism."
US Marine Corps Captain Aisha Bakkar-Poe.

"Terrorists claiming to act in the name of Islam is like a knife through my heart - that people would practice Islam, but do deeds like what they've done. It's not true faith. Some people twist religion to the way they think."
US Army Captain Arneshuia Balial, a convert to Islam since 1987.

so, wilberhum...open ur hearts 2 all of these events and search partially 4 ur queries. most muslims r not ignorance, and neither they r arrogance!

[adi8putra]

Show me a post where a Muslim has sopken out against a Muslim who has done evil. They will just say he is not a Muslim or blaim some one else for the problem. Most Muslims just refuse to accept any responsibility.

One more thing. Terrorists who committed the acts should have been name accordingly and not be associated with islam. When the Ku Klux Klan claimed credit for terrorist attacks in the 1960's, they were not identified by religion as "Christian Fundamentalists" or "Christian Terrorists." Although they identified themselves as a Christian movement, media never labeled them as Christians because their terrorism was regarded as a basic violation of Christian principles. We owe the same respect to the Muslim religion.:)

[lavikor201]

:sl:
it's kind of ironic that they just happened to 'go for the kill' at this time, oh and there's also a war going on at the same time....some sort of diversion? distract the people? take the attention away from the 'war' somewhat?
oh and 10 odd planes they say? well it's not like going and stealing bikes now isit? So 10? a bit sensationalised?
ma'salama
:w:

Maybe they were doing this because of the war. Hmmmm.... think for a second, then get back to us.

[Isaac]

if one is to expect condemnation of a terrorist attacks from muslims, there must be condemnation from both sides. Why is it that muslims are expected to condems acts of terror, but jews are for not expected to condem the actions of the bombing of 15+ disbaled children, christians are not asked to condemn the actions of hitler, hindus are not asked to condemn the action of the gujrat massacres?

I will clearly condemn any action carried out by a muslim which if in the case firstly is not islamic and could have easily been directed towards another target but i will never denounce or reject their reaoson for it. It is to know the cause of ones probelm, can and only then 1 put together positive steps to root the cause out.

So can I re-direct 2 questions to the non-muslims -

[1] Do you accept terrorism?

*If No then please move onto question number 2

[2] Then why do you accept the bombings of at least 1 000 dead lebanese

Might help you answer the question!

WHAT IS TERRORISM?

*defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

*Any act including, but not limited to, the use of force or violence and/or threat thereof of any person or group(s) of persons whether acting alone or on behalf of, or in connection with, any organisation(s) or government(s) committed for political, religions, ideological or similar purposes, including the intention to influence any government and/or to put the public or any section of the public in fear.

[Isaac]

if one is to expect condemnation of a terrorist attacks from muslims, there must be condemnation from both sides. Why is it that muslims are expected to condems acts of terror, but jews are for not expected to condem the actions of the bombing of 15+ disbaled children, christians are not asked to condemn the actions of hitler, hindus are not asked to condemn the action of the gujrat massacres?

I will clearly condemn any action carried out by a muslim which if in the case firstly is not islamic and could have easily been directed towards another target but i will never denounce or reject their reaoson for it. It is to know the cause of ones probelm, can and only then 1 put together positive steps to root the cause out.

So can I re-direct 2 questions to the non-muslims -

[1] Do you accept terrorism?

*If No then please move onto question number 2

[2] Then why do you accept the bombings of at least 1 000 dead lebanese

Might help you answer the question!

WHAT IS TERRORISM?

*defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

*Any act including, but not limited to, the use of force or violence and/or threat thereof of any person or group(s) of persons whether acting alone or on behalf of, or in connection with, any organisation(s) or government(s) committed for political, religions, ideological or similar purposes, including the intention to influence any government and/or to put the public or any section of the public in fear.

*Acts of murder and destruction deliberately directed against civilians or military in non-military situations.

*a psychological strategy of war for gaining political ends by deliberately creating a well-founded climate of fear among the civilian popuation. Such a strategy may be used by an OCCUPYING army on the occupied population. Many terrorist acts, especially against an occupying military or against illegal occupants are acts of war or resistance, and not terrorism.

NOTE TO THE READER: No where in any definition of the word terrorism in the academic field has there ever been or included the following words: Islam, muslim, Muhammed, Koran, Arabs, Pakistanis.

[Isaac]

Hello, My Non-muslim Posters, And Those That Try To Make Every Muslim To Be A Terrorist, Im Still Waiting!!!!!!!

[Keltoi]

You have to ask yourself though. Did Hitler makes statements saying he did this or that for the glory of Christianity? No, he did not. That being said, I don't know why you assume that Christians didn't hold him responsible for mass murder and genocide....

[scentsofjannah]

You have to ask yourself though. Did Hitler makes statements saying he did this or that for the glory of Christianity? No, he did not. That being said, I don't know why you assume that Christians didn't hold him responsible for mass murder and genocide....

Yes he did..read his books. Hitler was a christian.

[Cloe]

Yes he did..read his books. Hitler was a christian.

I have some doubt in this statement.
Hitler was inspired by his own book "Мein Kampf" not by The Gospel.
He declared himself as a new messiah.
And in fact, he felt symphaty towards Muslims and Islam.
Nazis even had Muslim division in Third Reich headed by Mufti Amin Al - Husseini.
This Muslim nazi division was named "Hanzar".

Some facts about them:

Bosnian ethnic cleansing under Amin al Husseini:

. Orthodox Christian Serbs: 200,000 killed

. Jewish Bosnians: 22,000 killed

. Gypsies: over 40,000 killed

Besides Jews and Gipsies, Hitler also treated Slavic nations as sekond-sort people, however they are christians(mostly orthodoxes).
Hitler was obsessed by nations and races, not by religion.
He had the only one "religion" - FASCISM.

And in fact, there was soldiers mostly from christian countries(eastern/western europeans, russians, americans), who destroyed nazi.

[Geronimo]

I have some doubt in this statement.
Hitler was inspired by his own book "Мein Kampf" not by The Gospel.
He declared himself as a new messiah.
And in fact, he felt symphaty towards Muslims and Islam.
Nazis even had Muslim division in Third Reich headed by Mufti Amin Al - Husseini.
This Muslim nazi division was named "Hanzar".

Some facts about them:


Besides Jews and Gipsies, Hitler also treated Slavic nations as sekond-sort people, however they are christians(mostly orthodoxes).
Hitler was obsessed by nations and races, not by religion.
He had the only one "religion" - FASCISM.

And in fact, there was soldiers mostly from christian countries(eastern/western europeans, russians, americans), who destroyed nazi.

He mostly used christianity as a propaganda tool during his rise to power. In all honesty he punished all those pretty severely that didn't worship him.

[Fishman]

And in fact, there was soldiers mostly from christian countries(eastern/western europeans, russians, americans), who destroyed nazi.

:sl:
The Russians were atheist communists (like Mr Egg), not Christians.
:w:

[Cloe]

:sl:
The Russians were atheist communists (like Mr Egg), not Christians.
:w:

When communist and bolsheviks ovethrew official goverment they became a leading power in Russia. Christianity(official religion) and other religions were banned, many priests were graved alive.
But people kept practicing in secret.
I know this, because my grandfather was russian and struggled there too.
When so called "communists" soldiers burried their dead friends they put crosses under grave.

P/S/ I forgot to say, there also was Algerians and Moroccans fighting with nazi.

[wilberhum]

Zulkiflim
So brotherhood is in Islam,,,ONE UMMAH,.,.

Since we are talking about terrorism, I see what you think Islam stands for.

Durrah
why should muslims be collectivly held responsible for the actions of others?

No one is responsible for the actions of others, unless that is if you inspire there actions.

I don't give a hoot what some wacko does, thats doesnt mean I agree with it, but its not my problem.

If the wacko is killing people, you should give a lot more than a hoot. Like it or not, it is your problem. It is a problem for everyone. No man is an Island.

adi8putra
I have seen many times where Islamic organizations condemn terrorism. My point remains though. They almost never name those they condemn; if they do it is only OBL.
Almost always, undefined terms are used. “Innocent civilians” is the most common. There are those that claim that there are no “Innocent Civilians” and I have never seen this challenged by those organizations. What I’m talking about is condemnation of individuals that commit evil in the name of Islam.
Your recollection of how the KKK was described is different than mine. Where were you and how old were you in the early 60’s?

Isaac
Why is it that muslims are expected to condems acts of terror, but jews are for not expected to condem the actions of the bombing of 15+ disbaled children

I guess it all depends on what you want. Do you want to do the least possible? Do you want to take the “Moral High Ground”? Do you only want to do what is right if everybody does what is right?
As far as your terrorism questions, I think Israel has the right to exist. I condemn how they do it.
But I noticed that you had no condemnation. That is the basis of my criticism.

[Geronimo]

Since we are talking about terrorism, I see what you think Islam stands for.


No one is responsible for the actions of others, unless that is if you inspire there actions.

If the wacko is killing people, you should give a lot more than a hoot. Like it or not, it is your problem. It is a problem for everyone. No man is an Island.

adi8putra
I have seen many times where Islamic organizations condemn terrorism. My point remains though. They almost never name those they condemn; if they do it is only OBL.
Almost always, undefined terms are used. “Innocent civilians” is the most common. There are those that claim that there are no “Innocent Civilians” and I have never seen this challenged by those organizations. What I’m talking about is condemnation of individuals that commit evil in the name of Islam.
Your recollection of how the KKK was described is different than mine. Where were you and how old were you in the early 60’s?


I guess it all depends on what you want. Do you want to do the least possible? Do you want to take the “Moral High Ground”? Do you only want to do what is right if everybody does what is right?
As far as your terrorism questions, I think Israel has the right to exist. I condemn how they do it.
But I noticed that you had no condemnation. That is the basis of my criticism.

I think one of the points for you and also one of mine is all condemnation has to have a but in it. "It's sad all those people died but...", "suicide bombing is against Islam but...".