Islamic Fascism....why???

[al-fateh]

:s: brothers and sisters

are we going to sit down on our behinds and stare at the world to soon call us Islamic Fascists???

The term has already started being used by the US and the UK...

the least we can do is remind others about this and alert them about this dangerous concept soon to come and expand and replace what is now known as Terrorism

what are we to do about it??

[Keltoi]

Nobody should be offended by this phrase, unless of course you agree with that philosophy. When Tony Blair or George Bush use the phrase "Islamic fascists", they are referring to an ideology. The same ideology that promotes suicide bombs, mass murder, etc, in the name of a religion. Both men have stated numerous times in the past that the war is not against the whole of Islam, but a particular ideology.

[Dawud_uk]

Nobody should be offended by this phrase, unless of course you agree with that philosophy. When Tony Blair or George Bush use the phrase "Islamic fascists", they are referring to an ideology. The same ideology that promotes suicide bombs, mass murder, etc, in the name of a religion. Both men have stated numerous times in the past that the war is not against the whole of Islam, but a particular ideology.

yes, they are against islam because islam also includes a political, an economic and other factors other than just acts of worship.

now if someone such as bush or blair comes along and wages war against those other those who believe in and try to enact those other aspects then such a person is waging war against islam in its entire form because as muslims we cannot pick and choose which bits we wont and which we dont want.

Daw'ud

[KAding]

:s: brothers and sisters

are we going to sit down on our behinds and stare at the world to soon call us Islamic Fascists???

The term has already started being used by the US and the UK...

the least we can do is remind others about this and alert them about this dangerous concept soon to come and expand and replace what is now known as Terrorism

what are we to do about it??

Actually, the whole point of the phrase is to make a distinction between Islam and an perverse totalitarian political ideology which abuses the values of Islam.

Thats what they would say, anyhow. I am personally not such a fan of the concept, IMHO it makes an unwarranted distinction between ideology and religion when discussing Islam.

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[Joe98]

Both men have stated numerous times in the past that the war is not against the whole of Islam, but a particular ideology.

Yes this is true

yes, they are against Islam because .....blah.....blah.....blah

Bush and Blair are trying to root out the evil people.

You’re view is that it is against ALL Muslims. It is sad that Muslims cannot root out evil.

-

[Obi-Wan]

You’re view is that it is against ALL Muslims. It is sad that Muslims cannot root out evil.

-

Do you mean that Muslims in general cannot root out evil... or that only bad Muslims cannot root out evil?

Are you saying that Muslims cannot tell right from wrong?

[wilberhum]

Do you mean that Muslims in general cannot root out evil... or that only bad Muslims cannot root out evil?

Are you saying that Muslims cannot tell right from wrong?

Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil, if it is committed by fellow Muslims. There is an idology of "Stand by Your Brother" no matter what he does and just blaim everything on the non-Muslims. At that is what I see.

[Islamicboy]

Yes this is true



Bush and Blair are trying to root out the evil people.

You’re view is that it is against ALL Muslims. It is sad that Muslims cannot root out evil.

-

I am confused the whole reason bush and blair went on war is to stop the killing of innocent people right... There cliam Taliban and alqaed kill innocent people that means they are terriost. Doesnt that make George bush and blair terriost as well. I mean if you are going to use the fact Taliban uses human shield so thats something expected from them since they are terriost. But american killing more innocent civilians than taliban saddam and alqaeda put together. Does that not make America a terrorist state? Therefore Alqaeda are not Terrorist instead they are freedom fighters. Al qaed are fighting for the freedom of Iraqi people and people of Afanganistan.. You cannot call one side evil and call the other side good. After the rape and murder of the 14 year old girl and her sister 5 and mother. It was Alqaide who punished the american soldiers i believe only 2 but still. Therefore for that girl and her family american troops were the terrorist and alqaeda were freedom fighters. And possible for alot more people in iraq could agree with the fact that alqaed is a group of freedom fighters not terrorist.

[Islamicboy]

Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil, if it is committed by fellow Muslims. There is an idology of "Stand by Your Brother" no matter what he does and just blaim everything on the non-Muslims. At that is what I see.

Americans are standing by the american soldiers even though they are causing terror in iraq and afganistan. See how it looks stupid to generalize all americans like that. You cannot generalize all muslim like that either. I know alot of muslims who oppose al qaide and majority of the crack down on terror went down in canada, britian and american were thanks to muslims who called the Authorities... 17 in canada were arrested after imam called the csis.. Majority of the terror plots were foiled thanks to muslims. I dont see this muslim ignoring just because the terrorist are muslims...

[wilberhum]

Americans are standing by the american soldiers

Not all Americans. Since you made no condemination of any Muslim, you support my statement.

[Islamicboy]

Not all Americans. Since you made no condemination of any Muslim, you support my statement.

You did not even read my whole post if you did you would understand what i said.

[QuranStudy]

Not all Americans. Since you made no condemination of any Muslim, you support my statement.

umm...one Muslim does not speak for all Muslims.

[Obi-Wan]

Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil, if it is committed by fellow Muslims. There is an idology of "Stand by Your Brother" no matter what he does and just blaim everything on the non-Muslims. At that is what I see.

Those are your words, Joe98 said "cannot".

And how do you manage to believe everything your government tells you? Pakistan is Muslim and was very important in foiling the latest plot -- so we're told. Saudi Arabia (moderate! Saudi Arabia) is on America's side of the war on terror. Will they not root out evil?

You see...
You manage to pick up the Islamophobia cues from your government. But you don't pick up on the pro-Islam cues.

Why is that?

And must I now denounce a Muslim?
Saddam was bad.
bin Laden bad, bad medicine.

Happy now?

[lavikor201]

Do you mean that Muslims in general cannot root out evil... or that only bad Muslims cannot root out evil?

Are you saying that Muslims cannot tell right from wrong?

This may sound like a dumb question...

If your a Jedi, then do you know how to use the force?

Please elaborate on your religious title.

[Woodrow]

I see one major problem with the world is that we all seem to know how to talk, yet very few seem to know how to communicate. We seem to view our statements from an analytical view point and believe that the established definitions and grammatical structure will prevent misunderstandings.

That would be true, if all words had the same connontations to all people. But, the reality is that what I see as harmless, may be seen as offensive to another person. so it is with all statements.

I really doubt that Bush intended for the view to be taken that he was calling Muslims Fascists. Not to justify him, just to explain. Our little Texas Shrub will not go down in history as the world's greatest orator. Public speaking and the English language are not his strong points. He could learn a lot if he tried to emulate Calvin Coolidge (ie: Silent Cal) or Millard Fillmore (The guy who forgot to show up for his inaugeration). Both Presidents gained fame and trust by keeping their mouths shut.

[Ninth_Scribe]

:s: brothers and sisters

are we going to sit down on our behinds and stare at the world to soon call us Islamic Fascists???

The term has already started being used by the US and the UK...

the least we can do is remind others about this and alert them about this dangerous concept soon to come and expand and replace what is now known as Terrorism

what are we to do about it??

I heard Bush say that... and it wasn't very fair. Let ME deal with him. Till then, please accept my apology.

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil, if it is committed by fellow Muslims. There is an idology of "Stand by Your Brother" no matter what he does and just blaim everything on the non-Muslims. At that is what I see.

Of brother! If that's so then please explain to me why Shariah is viewed as dishing out such extreme punishments? I'd say Muslims know how to root out evil and may even be better at it than we are.

President Bush is supposed to be a leader but he hasn't behaved like one from the start... he has an agenda all his own and it shows every time he opens his mouth. This time is no different.

Ninth Scribe

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

'Islamic fascism' is an oxy-moron. Fascism is an un-islamic ideology.

There is an idology of "Stand by Your Brother" no matter what he does and just blaim everything on the non-Muslims. At that is what I see.

No such ideology exists in Islam. In fact it contradicts the explicit teachings of the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

5:8 O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred harbored by others towards you prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And be mindful of Allah; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others." (Sahîh Bukhârî).

Regards

[lavikor201]

Of brother! If that's so then please explain to me why Shariah is viewed as dishing out such extreme punishments? I'd say Muslims know how to root out evil and may even be better at it than we are.

President Bush is supposed to be a leader but he hasn't behaved like one from the start... he has an agenda all his own and it shows every time he opens his mouth. This time is no different.

Ninth Scribe

Shariah Law is very good at rooting out people who break religious law. But people who commit offense to non-Muslims are often given an excuse or Muslims will often stand by the person even if he is wrong.

No such ideology exists in Islam. In fact it contradicts the explicit teachings of the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

No one is saying Islam teaches fascism. But we are saying that there are Muslims that act like fascists some times, and these people should be condemned by other Muslims when they act without care for law or humanity.

[Annie]

salms
wiberhm your comments are pathetic

[Ninth_Scribe]

Americans are standing by the american soldiers even though they are causing terror in iraq and afganistan.

That's not fair. Not long ago on this forum I stood up and explained that I wanted our soldiers to stand trial for a first degree murder charge as opposed to the manslaughter charge they faced (for staging the deaths of Iraqi civilians) and that request was honored. Some of us do expect our soldiers to represent us abroad and when some of them do these things they disgrace the other soldiers.

I saw what the Mujahedeen did to our two soldiers... and it bothered me to watch that video, but I can't fault them for it. In Sicily we did worse to the bourbons for the same thing. The trouble is Green (the soldier who was involved in the rape/murder) and his buddies were the ones who deserved that. I don't know if the two who paid for their crime were even involved. I may never know that till after this world.

Look, I know you're upset and the comment bothered you. Bush bothers everyone! He's just like that.... an insensitive, mouthy, jerk.

Please don't take that poison he spewed inside you.

Ninth Scribe

[lavikor201]

I saw what the Mujahedeen did to our two soldiers... and it bothered me to watch that video, but I can't fault them for it.

You can't fault them for that? The two soldiers didn't rape anyone, and did northing wrong except be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

No one is saying Islam teaches fascism.

Then it shouldn't be called 'Islamic'! That gives the impression that it has some basis in Islam.

But we are saying that there are Muslims that act like fascists some times, and these people should be condemned by other Muslims when they act without care for law or humanity.

No disagreement there.

[Ninth_Scribe]

You can't fault them for that? The two soldiers didn't rape anyone, and did northing wrong except be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

You and I have no way to know that! As for fault, the invasion of Iraq was unlawful and the view Iraqis have of our soldiers had it's own problems because of that. After these other crimes took place - well, that uniform means something entirely different than it was supposed to. I had no choice but to write this incident as follows: Provocation was present and it was a contributing factor.

Don't like it ~ am trying to undo it all as we speak.

Ninth Scribe

[KAding]

From wikipedia: "Islamofascism is a neologism and political epithet used to induce an association of the ideological or operational characteristics of certain modern Islamist movements with European fascist movements of the early 20th century, neofascist movements, or totalitarianism."

[north_malaysian]

Islamic Fascists? What a weird word. If you say 'Malay Fascist' or 'Arab Fascist' it's acceptable... but Islamic fascist? What so Islamic about fascism?:rollseyes

[KAding]

Islamic Fascists? What a weird word. If you say 'Malay Fascist' or 'Arab Fascist' it's acceptable... but Islamic fascist? What so Islamic about fascism?:rollseyes

Well, I think the word has gained prominence, because some of the more militant Islamic movements have some features in common with fascism.

Take the wikipedia definition of fascism: "a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism"

IMHO this is not so different from some Islamist movements:
1. They are highly nationalistic, striving to set up an Islamic state for all their Islamic brothers and sisters, fighting for all Muslims over the world. The ummah is their primary concern.
2. They are anti-liberal, anti-anarchistic and definately also anti-communism. That is quite obvious.
3. They are clearly totalitarian, in the sense that they demand that every citizen embrace their ideology. This is unlike mere dictators, who are content with control over disinterested citizens. Clearly movements like the Taliban interfere very much with the private choices of their citizens, by demanding they follow Islam fully.

The only thing that does not fit IMHO is the corporatism.

[north_malaysian]

:
1. They are highly nationalistic...

I think Muslims prefer the word 'Ummatic' rather than 'Nationalistic' because some says patriotism is haraaam!!!! (which is so weird as our religious teachers been teaching us that Patriotic and Nationalistic is part of Islam... now where did I put my Malaysian flags:giggling: :giggling: :giggling: )

[Hashim_507]

Its the new world order, zionist control.

[Obi-Wan]

This may sound like a dumb question...

If your a Jedi, then do you know how to use the force?

Please elaborate on your religious title.

Yes, I can use the force.. I can read your mind.....
Your thinking of..... Nothing -- your mind is empty! :)


No, it's a joke.
I missed the opportunity to put "jedi" down on the census. I'm happy to have a second chance! I don't consider myself religious.

[Muezzin]

Nobody should be offended by this phrase, unless of course you agree with that philosophy.

With all due respect, I'll decide what I should and should not be offended by.

When Tony Blair or George Bush use the phrase "Islamic fascists", they are referring to an ideology. The same ideology that promotes suicide bombs, mass murder, etc, in the name of a religion. Both men have stated numerous times in the past that the war is not against the whole of Islam, but a particular ideology.

Then both men have the most severe case of foot in mouth disease that I've ever seen. If it's not against Islam, but against a particular ideology, why call them 'Islamic terrorists' and 'Islamic Fascists'? I'm sure in Bush and Blair's peculiar little vernacular these terms are somehow distinct from simply equating Islam with terror and fascism, but back in the real world, the masses hear terms like this, think all Muslims are fascists or potential/actual terrorists, and innocent Muslims suffer on a daily basis as a result.

[KAding]

Then both men have the most severe case of foot in mouth disease that I've ever seen. If it's not against Islam, but against a particular ideology, why call them 'Islamic terrorists' and 'Islamic Fascists'? I'm sure in Bush and Blair's peculiar little vernacular these terms are somehow distinct from simply equating Islam with terror and fascism, but back in the real world, the masses hear terms like this, think all Muslims are fascists or potential/actual terrorists, and innocent Muslims suffer on a daily basis as a result.

Well, because it is nevertheless rooted in Islam. Just like fascism was rooted in nationalism. Like the inquisition and crusades were rooted in Christianity. Like Stalinism (think North Korea) is rooted in socialism. Extreme version of virtually every ideology can be disasterous.

[wilberhum]

You manage to pick up the Islamophobia cues from your government. But you don't pick up on the pro-Islam cues.

T
errorism creates islamophobia not governments.

[wilberhum]

I'd say Muslims know how to root out evil

I know, I have seen the news that tells how it is done.

[syilla]

I know, I have seen the news that tells how it is done.

you've seen it in news???

what news???:rollseyes

[wilberhum]

No such ideology exists in Islam. (Brother/Sister Hood)

You keep talking about Islam, I keep talking about Muslims.
My remarks are about what Muslims do, not what Islam says.

[Obi-Wan]

Terrorism creates islamophobia not governments.

You pick up on Bush talking about "Islamic Fascism", but you do not acknowledge Muslims in Pakistan and Saudi "rooting out evil", because you say that Muslims in general "will not" do such a thing. What majority of Muslims are you talking about?

You are not picking up on the pro-Islam cues. Why is that?

[Muezzin]

T
errorism creates islamophobia not governments.

I disagree. Islamaphobia in the sense of Muslims being oppressed or discriminated because of their faith has existed since the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). It's just one of those things.

However, I still object to the term 'Islamic Fascism'. There are only so many barmy political coinages one can take before pointing out their absurdity.

[Skillganon]

I think people got it into their head that islamic revivalism is islamic fascism.

Islamic revivalism should be in accordance with islam. Fascism is not.

What the game is being played is defining and confusing people, to lead them in devision.

This game of pointing the finger at particular muslim with words as terrorist, fascist e.t.c are for political reason, and aim against Islam.

Their are those who side against the believers and take the western goverment for freind over their own brothers and sisters and sell the deen for profit. Will happy to see islam confined to the closest.
The brothers and sisters who desire islam or oppose western terror are defined as terrorist, fascist.

The fascist and the terrorist are the western govermentd and those who side with them for a miserable profit.

I am not denying that wrong has not being carried out by some muslim, but this wrong carried by those muslim does not carry on to other muslim who are fighting western led allied forces in the middle-east.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (3:83)

[Keltoi]

The connection between global terrorism and Islam isn't simply something Bush or Blair or any world leader in the past made up to cause division or "destroy" Islam. The connection is there for all to see. That doesn't mean I believe that Islam itself is to blame for terrorism. The point is that a fairly large segment of the Islamic population, many in Western nations, have been programmed and radicalized to commit terrorist acts, in the name of religion. Islamic fascism, while understandably not a popular phrase amongst most Muslims, is spot on in defining the ideology we are talking about. I do not want everyday Muslims to feel the backlash caused by a radical and murderous segment, a fairly large segment globally, of the Islamic faith. However, the first step in confronting a problem is to name the problem.

[wilberhum]

I disagree. Islamaphobia in the sense of Muslims being oppressed or discriminated because of their faith has existed since the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him). It's just one of those things.

However, I still object to the term 'Islamic Fascism'. There are only so many barmy political coinages one can take before pointing out their absurdity.

I knew you would disagree. True Muslims have been oppressed since it began. But so has every religion has been oppressed. Every race has been oppressed. Every political ideology has been oppressed. There is nothing new about oppression. It has existed since there were two tribes. Extremism has existed in every religion, race and political ideology. You object when it is pointed your way. I understand.
What would you call it?

[wilberhum]

You pick up on Bush talking about "Islamic Fascism", but you do not acknowledge Muslims in Pakistan and Saudi "rooting out evil", because you say that Muslims in general "will not" do such a thing. What majority of Muslims are you talking about?

You are not picking up on the pro-Islam cues. Why is that?

I see governments addressing the problem. I don’t see much else. When the governments take action they are subjected to terrorism.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

However, the first step in confronting a problem is to name the problem.

Sadly, there are people who think that the problem is Islam. Which is really quite retarded, to say the least, given terrorism has absolutely no place in Islam.

I see governments addressing the problem. I don’t see much else.

If you're implying that muslims do not address the problem, you are greatly mistaken - local mosques that I have prayed at, throughout the years, have all addressed the problem and have kept saying: don't do these stupid actions.

[Keltoi]

:sl:

Sadly, there are people who think that the problem is Islam. Which is really quite retarded, to say the least, given terrorism has absolutely no place in Islam.

The problem isn't Islam itself, but those that use Islam to justify their actions and program new members.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

The connection between global terrorism and Islam isn't simply something Bush or Blair or any world leader in the past made up to cause division or "destroy" Islam. The connection is there for all to see.

But to say that the connection is with Islam is to say that such ideologies originate from the Islamic teachings themselves, which is not true. It is more appropriate to say that they are connected to various sociopolitical factors in the Muslim word.

The point is that a fairly large segment of the Islamic population, many in Western nations, have been programmed and radicalized to commit terrorist acts, in the name of religion.

First of all, the word is 'Muslim population' NOT 'Islamic population'. Secondly, how can you possibly call it a 'fairly large segment'? There are at least 1.6 billion Muslims in the world today. If even 1% of that number were terrorists or held to a violent ideology, the entire world would have been annihilated long ago! There is a tremendous problem when the media continues to focus on a dozen here and there and neglects the masses, as well as the leaders and scholars, all of whom unanimously denounce such ideas.

Islamic fascism, while understandably not a popular phrase amongst most Muslims, is spot on in defining the ideology we are talking about.

It is a misleading term that will actually contribute to the problem as it will fuel hatred, resentment, distrust and misunderstandings when we should be reaching out to eachother for dialogue and unity.

Regards

[wilberhum]

The problem isn't Islam itself, but those that use Islam to justify their actions and program new members.

I totally agree with you. And saying it isn't Islam is true but does not address the problem. Nor does blaiming Bush and Blair address the problem.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

The problem isn't Islam itself, but those that use Islam to justify their actions and program new members.

Indeed it is. But as I stated before, there are many who think it is Islam (***************** has many members with that problem - I experienced it on countless occasions)

This problem has been addressed in the mosques. In Leicester and Birmingham atleast.

[Keltoi]

"Sociopolitical"....I could live with that. The problem is that nothing can change the perception, true or not, that terrorists commit their murderous acts and justify it by pointing to religion and their hatred of Christians and Zionists.

When I mentioned a "fairly large segment", I should have said a fairly large number.

Hatred, mistrust, and misunderstanding are fueled by terrorism itself, not a phrase.

[Obi-Wan]

I see governments addressing the problem. I don’t see much else. When the governments take action they are subjected to terrorism.

That doesn't answer my question.
Your government tells you about the Muslims that are on your side. In Pakistan and Saudi, etc.

But you say that "Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil". So which general population are you basing that on? How do you apply this to Muslims in general?

My point is,
You do not acknowledge the cues given by your government when those cues are pro-Muslim. You only pick up on the negative. Why is that?

[SirZubair]

THE central conflict in the war on ideas lies in the
underlying stuff of man and how we think societies
should be organised. Regardless of what ideology has
ruled human affairs, they have all provided answers to
this question. This is true in religion as it is in
politics.

As the conflict in the Middle East continues, the
secular influences of groups such as Hamas and
Hezbollah are not obvious to the neutral observer. Nor
is their attraction to the young Muslim in the Sydney
street or the professional living in Indonesia clear.

"The core problem," as Paul Kelly argued on this page
on Wednesday, "seems to be the attraction of the
Islamist movement."

The 20th century saw the demise of communism, despite
its attraction to millions of people who felt poor or
downtrodden. It was exposed as a totalitarian system
that stifled the aspirations of man. But its stain is
spreading within the casing of Islamic fundamentalism.
This does not seem obvious, especially considering
Osama bin Laden himself was instrumental in defeating
the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan more than two
decades ago. And the Iranian revolution of 1979 was in
part a reaction to the perceived godlessness of
communism knocking at its doorstep.

This was mimicked to a lesser degree throughout the
Middle East, from Egypt to Jordan.

But the old Marxists are extending their influence in
many of the Islamic political parties that are rapidly
rising in popularity, in response to inept, autocratic
Arab governments. Arab governments have closed off
opportunity to such an extent that secular forces such
as communism or liberalism have minimal outlets.

One of the few places for a political voice is at the
mosque and through religion. Religion provides the
cloak for what is essentially politics.

As a result, political Islam is on the rise throughout
the Arab world. The first municipal election in Saudi
Arabia delivered wins for Islamic parties and, of
course, there was the election of Hamas by the
Palestinians. Many of the leaders representing
political Islam have previous ties to Arab socialism.
This is particularly true in Egypt, where the Muslim
Brotherhood won one-fifth of the vote in elections
last year.

Veteran foreign correspondent Mary Ann Weaver writes
in her book A Portrait of Egypt: "A number of my
former professors from the American University of
Cairo were Marxists 20 years ago: fairly adamant,
fairly doctrinaire Marxists. They are now equally
adamant, equally doctrinaire Islamists."

The developments in Egypt are potent for it has long
been a leader in the region.

The similarities of communism and Islam are
considerable. Both are egalitarian and advocate
radical economic change. They both demand a domination
of the public space and share a dogmatic, ideological
view of the world.

Political Islam is also supplying the social services
in a collective context that communism promised, and
the status of groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah
depends on this. Their facilities are often described
by locals as superior to those provided by the ruling
governments.

Islam also promises to deliver the poor masses from
oppression, but there is a difference: instead of the
working class rising up against the bourgeoisie, the
uprising to be encouraged is by hapless, impoverished
Muslims against their oppressive Western masters or
puppet Arab leaders. And like communism, Islam
believes the collective must be preserved at the
expense of the individual. We are social beings first,
individuals second.

Like communism, Islamism promises a better life for
the poor, oppressed and alienated. It is cloaked in
God, but its essence is strongly secular. Unless the
West fights the war of ideas at this level, offering a
competing vision of morality as well as economics and
technology, the lure of Islamic extremism will
continue to flourish.

And this will especially be the case as television
shows the Western class oppressors dropping bombs on
the Muslim proletariat.

* Tanveer Ahmed, a Sydney psychiatrist, is writing
a book that is a comic look at Muslim life in Australia.

[wilberhum]

That doesn't answer my question.
Your government tells you about the Muslims that are on your side. In Pakistan and Saudi, etc.

But you say that "Musilms in general WILL NOT root out evil". So which general population are you basing that on? How do you apply this to Muslims in general?

My point is,
You do not acknowledge the cues given by your government when those cues are pro-Muslim. You only pick up on the negative. Why is that?

My government tells me nothing about Muslims. That is just part of your "Dream State".
I learn about Muslims from this forum.

In general, I see little effort from any Muslim community, anyplace, where there is an effort to "Root out Evil".

But then how do we debate about evil when we don't share a common "Moral Compass"?

[SirZubair]

Good to know:D

Sister Zaakiya, please, if that is all you are going to say in every thread, keep quiet.

[Obi-Wan]

My government tells me nothing about Muslims. That is just part of your "Dream State".

Your government doesn't tell you about the allies it has in Pakistan and Saudi, etc? I find that hard to believe.

[wilberhum]

Your government doesn't tell you about the allies it has in Pakistan and Saudi, etc? I find that hard to believe.

The governmnt tells me nothing much, I listen to the news. Besides you said Muslims, you never mentioned countries. When did countries come up? Lots of countries are acting. Some of them are Muslim countries. That has nothing to do with individual actions?

[Obi-Wan]

So, wilberhum
When you talk about "Muslims in general", you don't want to talk about populations of Muslims.

And it's the news that tells you things. (They never interview spokespeople from the government.) And you reckon that the terror plots were foiled without the aid of Muslim individuals.

I see.
Thank you for clarifying.

[wilberhum]

When you talk about "Muslims in general", you don't want to talk about populations of Muslims.

Well I have committed the sin of un-clarity. I did say countries. What I meant to communicate was “Governments of Countries”.

And you reckon that the terror plots were foiled without the aid of Muslim individuals.

The best way to make a fool out of your self is to use works like, always, never, all the time, everybody, nobody, and many others.
To even suggest that Muslims never help, would be a stupid statement. If you reread my statement, I said “little effort”. In fact last night on the news that it was “Inside Information” that started the investigation into the latest plot in the UK. CNN also interview a Muslim that had been trained by the FBI is look for “spurious” activities. On the flip side, he is now looked down on by fellow Muslims.

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Wilber