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adi8putra
08-14-2006, 05:38 PM
Lebanese see victory in rubble of homes

By Tom Perry

BEIRUT (Reuters) - His home and business had been flattened, but Hilal Hashem said it didn't matter as he surveyed the devastation wreaked by Israeli air raids on his suburb.

"We'll come back and rebuild. All this destruction is a sign of victory," he said, his two sons and daughter at his side.

A general view of destroyed buildings in the southern Beirut suburbs August 14, 2006. (REUTERS/ Fadi Ghalioum)

It shows they could not succeed militarily, so they resorted to hitting civilians."

Lebanese returned to Beirut's southern suburbs on Monday to find hills of rubble where their homes once stood. Satellite dishes and water tanks lay in the streets.

Israel bombed the southern suburbs saying it was aiming at Hizbollah offices in the area.

Finding shops and homes blown to pieces, many in Hizbollah's Beirut heartland said the destruction was a monument to what they see as the group's victory in the war with Israel.

More than a month of heavy fighting and air raids were brought to an end by a U.N.-brokered truce on Monday.

Hashem said his support for Hizbollah had grown. "Why? Because they have protected our dignity," he said.

Young men darted around the streets on mopeds, handing out glossy leaflets picturing Hizbollah guerrillas next to a rocket launcher. "The Divine Victory," read one pamphlet in English.

The yellow flag of Hizbollah flew from cars which clogged the main road through the suburb.

"I don't know where my house is. It's like a tidal wave, an earthquake. But more than that, it's a crime," said Ani Farhat as she toured the area with her sister. "Watch out, don't go further in. There are unexploded shells," she warned.

"ISRAELI RAGE"

Many who fled the area were returning for the first time, holding tissues over their faces so as not to breathe the clouds of concrete dust thrown up by bulldozers scooping up piles of rubble.

Israeli jets dropped leaflets over Beirut before the truce took hold, blaming Hizbollah for the war and warning that Israel would hit back if the Shi'ite Muslim group attacked.

The war was triggered when Hizbollah staged a raid into Israel and captured two soldiers.

There was no sign that faith in Hizbollah had been shaken in the Shi'ite area. Residents expect the group, which runs social services, to rebuild the area.

"Come, look! This is where my shop was," Kassem Ghandour called to his friend, smiling as he stood on what was once a rooftop. "This is Israeli rage."

Across the street, Youssef Kawtharani pulled a sewing machine from the debris of his apartment block and cursed U.S. President George W. Bush as he handed it to his wife, who was piling up the possessions that could be salvaged.

Half of Dawoud Bizza's apartment block had been destroyed, but his flat had survived. He worked with pliers to connect an electrical cable to the building.

"They are going to bring a generator. If so, great. If not, we'll use candles," he said. "The important thing is that our heads are held up high."




Copyright © 2005 Reuters
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Zulkiflim
08-14-2006, 09:17 PM
Salaam,

Alhamdulilah,may the Hezbollah be supported more by the Lebanese people.

But agian some hyprocrites will say it is the Hezbollah fault.

It is Hezbollah fault that they kidnapped the 2 isrealis soldiers
It is Hezbollah fault that Isreal has in it custody thousand of lebanese people
It is Hezbollah fault that Isreal targer civillians.
It is Hezbollah fault that they bombed Israel back.

so in short the hyprocrites all fear to fight but would ahve peace at any cost even to the betrayal of the people whom are FIGHTING FOR THEM.

As always there will be some who are swated by promise of peace,to betry their own ,to betray the freedom fighter,and after they betray,they will be told,,what peace,you are stupid enough to tell us who protect you and now you are worthless to us..

WHO WOULD WANT PEACE WITH TRAITORS...
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QuranStudy
08-14-2006, 09:22 PM
Excellent article.
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KAding
08-14-2006, 09:55 PM
Oh well. I guess 'victory' is relative. Half the country occupied, the other half bombed extensively.

IMHO it's too soon to say who has won. It all depends on what will happen to Hezbollah in the long run.
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wilberhum
08-14-2006, 10:01 PM
No one won. Everyone lost.
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north_malaysian
08-15-2006, 03:25 AM
Bush says Hezballah lost the war.

I mean, if Hezballah lost the war:

1) why Nasrallah is still alive and kicking?
2) Why Al Manar is still operative?
3) Why there are still thousands of HEzballah members?
4) Why Muslims (both Sunnis and Shiites) waving Hezballah's flags and Nasrallah potraits WORLDWIDE?
5) Even Israelis believe that, they dont REALLY WON the war....

Conclusion: Bush is STUPID!!!!
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ManchesterFolk
08-15-2006, 03:27 AM
just look at lebanon... they haven't won anything.

There just trying to grasp onto the only thing they have left.

pride.
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north_malaysian
08-15-2006, 03:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
pride.
and cursing other Arab/Muslim nations for being passive.
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afriend
08-15-2006, 03:37 AM
:sl:

It's going to be a lengthy process to rebuild...
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north_malaysian
08-15-2006, 04:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Iqram
:sl:

It's going to be a lengthy process to rebuild...
Arab/Muslim nations WHO SHOULD FEEL GUILTY for not defending Lebanon MUST give billions to rebuilding Lebanon......

Rebuilding Israel? - That's the duty of USA...
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KAding
08-15-2006, 08:51 AM
Bush says Hezballah lost the war.

I mean, if Hezballah lost the war:

1) why Nasrallah is still alive and kicking?
2) Why Al Manar is still operative?
3) Why there are still thousands of HEzballah members?
4) Why Muslims (both Sunnis and Shiites) waving Hezballah's flags and Nasrallah potraits WORLDWIDE?
5) Even Israelis believe that, they dont REALLY WON the war....

Conclusion: Bush is STUPID!!!!
Many Muslims say Hezbollah won the war.

I mean, if Hezbollah won the war:

1) Why is the South of Lebanon occupied by Israel?
2) Why is so much of Lebanon destroyed?
3) Why did the IDF only lose 110 or so soldiers out of a potential 1.5 million man army?
4) Why does the UN pass another resolution aimed at the disarmament of Hezbollah?
5) Why is there going to be a 15,000 UN peace keeping mission that aims to break Hezbollah's military presence in South Lebanon?

Conclusion: Many Muslims are STUPID??? ;) :p :D
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north_malaysian
08-15-2006, 09:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Many Muslims say Hezbollah won the war.

I mean, if Hezbollah won the war:

1) Why is the South of Lebanon occupied by Israel?
2) Why is so much of Lebanon destroyed?
3) Why did the IDF only lose 110 or so soldiers out of a potential 1.5 million man army?
4) Why does the UN pass another resolution aimed at the disarmament of Hezbollah?
5) Why is there going to be a 15,000 UN peace keeping mission that aims to break Hezbollah's military presence in South Lebanon?

Conclusion: Many Muslims are STUPID??? ;) :p :D
Of course Muslims are stupid... Happy?
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KAding
08-15-2006, 09:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Of course Muslims are stupid... Happy?
No. I was not being very serious, thats why I put all the question marks and smilies in my post. I think it is way too soon to say who 'won' or 'lost'. Personally I think a draw is much more likely. Israel has not yet managed to remove the Hezbollah threat, and Hezbollah has really not succeeded in defending Lebanon from the Zionists.

The future of Hezbollah as an independent militia will determine who 'won'. If they get absorbed into the Lebanese army than Israel will effectively have achieved it's goal, since the Lebanese army is under control of the Lebanese government, which is unlikely to attack Israel like Hezbollah did.

If however the UN peacekeepers show up, Israel withdraws and Hezbollah simply reaffirms it's military dominance over the south, then Israel will have achieved nothing. Technically this would be a draw, but in reality it would mean a moral victory for the anti-Zionist forces and Israeli military deterrence will be dealt a blow.
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north_malaysian
08-15-2006, 09:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I think it is way too soon to say who 'won' or 'lost'. .
Yeah... agreeable....:peace:
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wilberhum
08-15-2006, 05:07 PM
Nasrallah claiming victory reminds me of when Sedum’s army was devastated in Kuwait and he claimed a “Great Victory”. I guess it just depends on how you define victory.

He is more politically powerful, maybe that is the victory he is claiming.

And his increase in popularity cost how many lives?
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 05:27 PM
Once Israel gives back the lebanese prisoners they took like Sayed Hassan said... and Hezbollah will give back the soldiers, then it will be over.

Kidman
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wilberhum
08-15-2006, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Kidman
Once Israel gives back the lebanese prisoners they took like Sayed Hassan said... and Hezbollah will give back the soldiers, then it will be over.

Kidman
No! Hezbollah will just regroup and wait for the next opertunity to destroy Israel. As long as Hezbollah is armed, war is part of the future.
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 05:58 PM
oh really, when has Hezbollah ever attacked Israel? (do not use the kidnapping as attacking, you know more than well the reasons for that)

Now answer this... how many times has Israel attacked Lebanon?

Was the war inside Israel terrirtory or Lebanese territory?

War is not part of the future if Israel can stop killing muslims. If they get that two state solution for Israel and Palestine, and live without getting into each others business, then all will be good. But for now... Israel still controls all of Palestine.. and will not let them live in peace.
Every Palestinian has a direct family member or cousin that has been in prisoned, is still in prison, or has been killed by Israeli military forces.

I think it's more like "If Israel keeps doing what it's doing, then war keeps being part of the future"

Kidman
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wilberhum
08-15-2006, 07:14 PM
oh really, when has Hezbollah ever attacked Israel?
Then rule out all the reasons and times they attackes.
How many times did the sun come up, except in the Morning?
DA
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sameer
08-15-2006, 07:25 PM
Did israel get back the two soldiers? Isnt this the "reason" they went to war? to get back the soldiers at all costs? So if they didnt get them back...then didnt they fail in their "mission" ? So if u go by that "reason" for the war...israel didint win.

Offcouse we all know that israel dont care about the soldiers, they just wanted to destroy and create havoc in lebanon and to divert attention from the on going situation/war in the Gaza strip. I think they achieved their objective.
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wilberhum
08-15-2006, 08:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sameer
Did israel get back the two soldiers? Isnt this the "reason" they went to war? to get back the soldiers at all costs? So if they didnt get them back...then didnt they fail in their "mission" ? So if u go by that "reason" for the war...israel didint win.

Offcouse we all know that israel dont care about the soldiers, they just wanted to destroy and create havoc in lebanon and to divert attention from the on going situation/war in the Gaza strip. I think they achieved their objective.
It is always good to see an unbias view. It is obvious that Nasrallah cares nothing for people.
The fact is both lost. There are no winners.
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sameer
08-15-2006, 08:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
It is always good to see an unbias view. It is obvious that Nasrallah cares nothing for people.
The fact is both lost. There are no winners.
I never said that Nasrallah does not care for people. Re-read/re-think my post.
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 08:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Then rule out all the reasons and times they attackes.
How many times did the sun come up, except in the Morning?
DA
Ok... so just this one instance of them taking soldiers is the only time they attacked. I guess i do have to explain it to you over and over again.

1st) They warned Israel months in advance about what is going to happen if the lebanese prisoners are not released.

2nd) The soldiers were 7 miles across on the Lebanese border when they were captured, meaning they were in Lebanon territory.

You know my point is obvious with the question before. Hezbollah has only defended, and Israel is always the one to attack. Stop debating just to debate bro...

Kidman
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lavikor201
08-15-2006, 08:32 PM
1st) They warned Israel months in advance about what is going to happen if the lebanese prisoners are not released.
Oh did they? Please show us this warning.

Israel though warned Hezbollah this would happen in advance if there soldiers were not returned.

2nd) The soldiers were 7 miles across on the Lebanese border when they were captured, meaning they were in Lebanon territory.
Where is your proof?

The gaurd post, bullets, ect were all in Israeli territory, and other than bias news sources who have no evidence of this making outrageous claims there is no basis to that statement.
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Kidman
08-15-2006, 08:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201

Israel though warned Hezbollah this would happen in advance if there soldiers were not returned.
LOL... they started attack right away, what type of warnign is this?

Where is your proof?

The gaurd post, bullets, ect were all in Israeli territory, and other than bias news sources who have no evidence of this making outrageous claims there is no basis to that statement.
It was in the sheeba Farms terroritory, which belongs to Lebanon.

1. Syria says the Shebaa farms are Lebanese lands. Syrian officials may be asked this question at any time. No bets on whose claims Syria would defend.

2. Any map of Lebanon predating the current crisis clearly illustrates Shebaa within Lebanon. Map: http://www.expressed-opinion.com/dow...lebanonmap.jpg

3. Shebaa inhabitants say they are Lebanese.

4. The Lebanese government has submitted several maps and proofs of Shebaa farms being Lebanese to the UN for which the UN has not acted upon.

5. For arguments sakes, we will presume the Israeli dispute that Shebaa farms are Syrian (although Syria affirms they belong to Lebanon). Being Syrian land, the Israelis shouldn't be there. If Israelis wanted peace, they should rightfully withdrawal in compliance with Resolutions 242 and 338.

Kidman
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lavikor201
08-15-2006, 09:03 PM
While the Shebaa farms area, a part of the occupied Golan heights, has no significance for Israel, it has great significance for rule of law. In 2000, the UN examined Lebanese claims that Sheba farms belong to Lebanon and dismissed them. This rectangular area cuts a village in two, and takes an artificial looking bite out of the contours of the Golan heights and the Syrian border, leaving al-Ghajar sticking out between Israel and Lebanon.




The border was first demarcated in the Anglo-French agreement of 1923, which put Shebaa farms in Syria. All maps prior to 1966 except one, apparently a forgery, show the area as part of Syria. Syria has backed the Lebanese claim, but refuses to demarcate its border.


The UN position on Shebaa farms until now is summed up as follows:

The United Nations stated: "On 15 May 2000, the United Nations received a map, dated 1966, from the Government of Lebanon which reflected the Government's position that these farmlands were located in Lebanon. However, the United Nations is in possession of 10 other maps issued after 1966 by various Lebanese government institutions, including the Ministry of Defense and the army, all of which place the farmlands inside the Syrian Arab Republic. The United Nations has also examined six maps issued by the Government of the Syrian Arab Republic, including three maps since 1966, which place the farmlands inside the Syrian Arab Republic."[11]

In a June 18, 2000 statement, the Security Council noted that Israel and Lebanon had confirmed to the Secretary General, that identification of the withdrawal line was solely the responsibility of the United Nations and that both sides would respect the line as identified. Moreover, the Security Council took note, "with serious concern," of reports of violations - by Hizbullah[16] - that had occurred since June 16, 2000, and called upon the parties to respect the line drawn by the United Nations.

UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, in remarks to the press with U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, Foreign Minister of Spain Josep Pique, Foreign Minister of Russia Igor Ivanov, and European Union Senior Official Javier Solana in Madrid, Spain, on April 10, 2002, said: "With reference to the disturbances along the Blue Line emanating from Lebanese territory, I call on the Government of Lebanon and all relevant parties to condemn and prevent such violations. The Security Council itself confirmed in June 2000 that Israel had withdrawn from southern Lebanon in compliance with UN Security Council resolutions 425 and 426. Attacks at any point along the Blue Line, including in the Shebaa Farms area in the occupied Golan Heights, are violations of Security Council resolutions. Respect for decisions of the Security Council is the most basic requirement of international legitimacy.



But now Condoleezza Rice, Mr. Annan and the Security Council, faced with Hezbollah blackmail, may be about to hand Shebaa farms over to the Lebanese. Eugene Kontorovich, an expert on international law, notes:

The most surprising aspect of international proposals for a ceasefire in the Israel-Lebanon conflict is their endorsement of Hezbollah's demand that Israel give it territory, known as the Sheba Farms, in exchange for a end to rocket attacks on Israeli cities... What is certain -- and yet entirely neglected in the discussion of the issue -- is that the proposal violates bedrock norms of international law.
...
Because Lebanon has no rightful claim to the territory, if Hezbollah's violence succeeds in re-opening the U.N.'s earlier decision, it would be clear to all Hezbollah's rocket campaign was the necessary cause of the new, presumably more favorable "delineation." Hezbollah's side of the "dispute" over the border consists of attacking Israel. If this kind of disputation can get borders changed, it is a defeat for international law.

Even if we ignore the legal aspects, we must be concerned for the effect that this concession would have on the standing of Hezbollah in Lebanon.
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Kidman
08-16-2006, 03:47 PM
Ok.... you have your points and I have mine.... then the people of Israel, Syria, and Lebanon have theirs. Syria and Lebanon says it belongs to Lebanon, and Israel and the U.N says it used to belong to Syria which got taken over by Israel so they have rights to it.

There are Lebanese citizens that show documents that they owned that land... they can point out where their land used to be and where they used to live.

We can leave it to them to argue about it, i was just pointing out that this land is considered an occupied part of Lebanon still.... and Israel believes it is their own... so in Hezbollah's eyes, they were on their land and that's why they had to right to take those soldiers.

Then on top of that, they should've even had rights to do more, based on what Israel has done to them in the past... but Hezbollah didn't... they did the minimum they had to do to get an exchange of prisoners... but that still hasn't happened but probably will soon.

Kidman
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