Can anyone refute this (about Jesus):

[QuranStudy]

He was most probably a Jewish radical who formed a small sect in Canaan teaching a neo-Judaism. By all accounts he was probably executed by either the Jews or the Romans.

That's as far as I would take his historical record.

The miracles, resurrection and virgin birth were all stories which were added to his legend by the hellenistic jews who had already come into contact with pagan religions believing the same stuff.

I couldnt refute as I found his statement to be somewhat factual and logical.

Please help.

[Joe98]

Christains too believe he was executed by either the Jews or the Romans

[Woodrow]

I couldnt refute as I found his statement to be somewhat factual and logical.

Please help.

This is a problem and trap many people fall into when they have no concept about debating and what can actually be done. Essentially the above statement is true and can be verified. That is all it is. Part of a larger story yet not complete. There is nothing to refute. It is not a debatable opening statement.

That is a complete arguement in itself. That opening statement is completion without recourse to debate. End of debate.


A new debate needs to be opened with a new opining topic. All that can be done is to state the additional facts you know and state verifiable sources.

[Joe98]

From the Christians perspective the man has posted a lie.

Tell us how it helps understanding between Christians and Musims?

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[Woodrow]

From the Christians perspective the man has posted a lie.

Tell us how it helps understanding between Christians and Musims?

I would say that it helps us both understand that we do have at least some mutual beliefs about Is'a(as), Miracles, Virgin Birth, Ascenssion into heaven.

And that we both will disagree with somebody who states differently about those things.

[QuranStudy]

1.) There is no historical proof of Jesus's existance other than Bible.
2.) You can't debate anything as far as the "virgin birth" goes.

[Hussein radi]

WHat are you talking about? The quran clearly speaks about him andi f u are a muslim it should be a 100% proof for you. Some of your questions make me think u have weak imaan.

[QuranStudy]

WHat are you talking about? The quran clearly speaks about him andi f u are a muslim it should be a 100% proof for you. Some of your questions make me think u have weak imaan.

You cannot use the Quran to debate with a non-Muslim.

[جوري]

1.) There is no historical proof of Jesus's existance other than Bible.
2.) You can't debate anything as far as the "virgin birth" goes.

How can you prove or disprove anything in ancient history? Unless you were actually there? There is a "story" in the word history that someone told and many corroborated or wrote down ... if you can get a majority consensus, then that is usually what you'd go by... There will always be those of opposing opinion or personal gain and they will come up with a counter claim or different stories ... it is up to you to do your homework, decipher which is correct, and the credibility of the presenter, what is a conjecture? how to refute, bottom line is you need a sea of knowledge and the wisdom to use it properly, if you are discerning and generally have a good experience you can put an entire puzzle together....... it helps tremendously if you have unchanged texts that can hold up to the test of centuries..... I hope that helps?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you QuranStudy;

There is no historical proof of Jesus's existance other than Bible.

There is also no proof that God exists, what we have are beliefs.

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith understanding

Eric

[QuranStudy]

So Jesus is nothing more than belief?

[Eric H]

Greetings in peace QuranStudy;

So Jesus is nothing more than belief?

Very much so because I have no proof, although many other Christians will offer what they call evidence or proof.

There is a great need to respect that other people will have conflicting beliefs to our own. There is no compulsion in religion and we are free to search for truth.

In the spirit of striving for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

[QuranStudy]

Thank you Eric H

Peace to you as well :)

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you QuranStudy;

Thanks for your thanks and peace.:)

Sometimes it is a struggle to accept that we are all created by the same God, often it seems unclear how God expects us to relate to each other. It is difficult at times to understand that God is greater than the sum of all the religions put together. Despite our differences Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Muslims and Jews are all created by the same God.

In the spirit of striving for peace between our faiths.

Eric

[QuranStudy]

Sometimes it is a struggle to accept that we are all created by the same God, often it seems unclear how God expects us to relate to each other. It is difficult at times to understand that God is greater than the sum of all the religions put together. Despite our differences Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Muslims and Jews are all created by the same God.

Well said.

[- Qatada -]

You cannot use the Quran to debate with a non-Muslim.

Asalamu 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.


Brother, you'll realise that the Qur'an itself can be used to debate against non muslims.

If you mean the people don't believe in the Qur'ans authenticity - then one can prove that by using the Qur'an because of its logic and simplicity. People don't have to accept the Qur'an because Allah orders them to believe, but Allah Almighty makes the people reflect, and use their logic to accept the truth.

We also do know that the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) only used the Qur'an to debate with the christians, jews and even polytheists.


Allaah Almighty knows best.

[IceQueen~]

if one looks at the history of the trinity it is clear that the trinity was created/made up after jesus (pbuh)'s time. It is also clear that he was jewish-ie a prophet of the jews and did not claim divinity himself.

as for whether he was crucified or not- there is evidenec that he was NOT crucified and even biblical scholars state that it was probaby the one who betrayed him who was actually cricified.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Greetings and peace be with you QuranStudy;

Thanks for your thanks and peace.:)

Sometimes it is a struggle to accept that we are all created by the same God, often it seems unclear how God expects us to relate to each other. It is difficult at times to understand that God is greater than the sum of all the religions put together. Despite our differences Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Muslims and Jews are all created by the same God.

In the spirit of striving for peace between our faiths.

Eric

BRAVO!!! :) :) :)

[nimrod]

Joe, it is also a lie according to Islam.

Thanks
Nimrod

[nimrod]

Quran Study, the best way to answer the fellow, imo, is to simply say that Paul’s letters don’t indicate that to be true.

If the fellow disputes that, ask him for his proof.

Thanks
Nimrod

[Eric H]

Greetings in peace,

The very word religion seems to cause mankind huge problems. Somehow religion separates us and we have the need to call something truth, or refute it, we say words like authentic proof, but we don’t like to use the word belief very much.

I can look on my beliefs as being true, but what do my beliefs inspire me to do?

Should I be looking for some greater meaning, should my religion and beliefs inspire me to do something good?

To my way of thinking Quran Study, instead of asking; can anyone refute these stories about Jesus?
The greater question might have been; what do these stories about Jesus inspire you to do?

In the spirit of striving for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

[lolwatever]

This is a problem and trap many people fall into when they have no concept about debating and what can actually be done. Essentially the above statement is true and can be verified. That is all it is. Part of a larger story yet not complete. There is nothing to refute. It is not a debatable opening statement.

That is a complete arguement in itself. That opening statement is completion without recourse to debate. End of debate.


A new debate needs to be opened with a new opining topic. All that can be done is to state the additional facts you know and state verifiable sources.

In addition to that, who cares what they say, Allah knows better than anyone else about what happened in the past, present and future.

salams

[QuranStudy]

I get offended when people say:

1.) Jesus was a radical Jew.
2.) His miracles and virgin birth are lies fabricated from preceding mythical religions.
3.) Certain disgusting accusations on Mary to explain Jesus’ birth.
4.) Jews betrayed Jesus/ Jesus betrayed Jews.