The "Lions" kill dozens in Iraq

[Joe98]

The “Lions“ kill dozens in Iraq



http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200608/s1713994.htm


Coordinated Baghdad blasts kill dozens

Insurgent bombers have killed at least 47 people and injured 148 more in a coordinated series of blasts which demolished two buildings in a commercial district of Baghdad yesterday, a defence official says.

"One building and one house collapsed completely," the official said.

"Two more buildings were seriously damaged."

At least five explosions have ripped through the Zafaraniyah district of south-east Baghdad.

A witness and a security official say the attack on the Al Qubyasi market, in a mixed area inhabited by Shiites, Sunni and Christians, was done in a way designed to maximise casualties.

An Interior Ministry official says the carnage began when a Katyusha rocket demolished a four-storey building containing residences and shops.

Edit: This is the same type used by Hezbollah and supplied by Iran

Dual attack

Five minutes later, as bystanders rushed to drag the dead and wounded from the rubble, a car bomb detonated about 100 metres away, shattering shop fronts and scattering wounded people across the street.

A medical official at the scene says bodies are trapped in the remains of the building.

"There are dozens of bodies in the street," he said.

"The building just collapsed. It was four storeys, with homes and shops.

"Civil defence personnel are trying to get bodies out of the building.

"The shops underneath are destroyed."

Less than an hour later, another bomb attack brought down a second building nearby and again, after local people gathered at the site a suicide bomber on a motorbike ploughed into the crowd and blew himself up.

Meanwhile, a fifth bomb attack targeted a police patrol on its way to the scene, injuring three officers.

Baghdad is in the grip of a dirty war between rival sectarian gangs and insurgents targeting US-led coalition forces and the national unity Government led by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.

Around 50 people are killed every day, according to figures from the city morgue.

[Ninth_Scribe]

The “Lions“ kill dozens in Iraq

Baghdad is in the grip of a dirty war between rival sectarian gangs and insurgents targeting US-led coalition forces and the national unity Government led by Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.

Around 50 people are killed every day, according to figures from the city morgue.

Yes, yes, yes. The "Lions" are the only ones who kill civillians and it's all about sectarian gangs. American troops, coalition forces and Maliki are all the good guys and have never killed civillians, raped women, etc.

Three months ago I asked Maliki to offer "round-the-table amnesty" to all the fighters. Why? Because every one of them had the blood of innocents on their hands. Maliki, for some strange reason, believed Amnesty should be offered only to those who didn't need it. That was a joke and of course the plan failed!

As for the sectarian BS - Al Sadr extended his hand to the Sunni "lions" and announced that he wanted to join forces with them to fight the invasion, or as he put it... "cut off the head of the snake"... so he didn't view the Sunni "lions" as enemies.

Now I don't know who's playing what games here, but to even suggest that the bloodshed is all the fault of the Sunni "lions" is pure BS, at best. They're all ticking me off with the killing of the civilians, the twisting of words and the bending of images, and believe me when I tell you, my light is going to shine all over this... but to stop it will take... ROUND THE TABLE AMNESTY! End of story.

To any Sunni or Shiite fighters here, I know you think America is upset by the increase in sectarian violence, but let me ask you this. If America said it would be upset if you jumped off a cliff... would you do that too? You're doing their dirty work... for them!

Ninth Scribe

[afriend]

Wonderfully put out...It's good to see some people with sense in this forum :)

[Ninth_Scribe]

Wonderfully put out...It's good to see some people with sense in this forum :)

Well thank you for that. I've always rebelled against the 'parrot' routine... don't like people telling me the only thing I'm allowed to say is "Polly wanna cracker?"

Ninth Scribe

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[afriend]

Well thank you for that. I've always rebelled against the 'parrot' routine... don't like people telling me the only thing I'm allowed to say is "Polly wanna cracker?"

Ninth Scribe

loolll!! hehe....

It's good to think outside the box :)

[therebbe]

Three months ago I asked Maliki to offer "round-the-table amnesty" to all the fighters.

You asked him?

so he didn't view the Sunni "lions" as enemies.

So your blaming all of the violence on the Sunni's, because the Shia are obviously so peace loving.

You're doing their dirty work... for them!

That must be it. America is only in Iraq so they can set off road side bombs and killing innocent Iraqi's. All those elections, freedoms, ect all just a cover up! There in it to set off those road side bombs, they do not want peace and stability in Iraq! They want violence, and they want to be stuck there for the next ten to fifteen years!

Brilliant conclusion.

[Ninth_Scribe]

That must be it. America is only in Iraq so they can set off road side bombs and killing innocent Iraqi's. All those elections, freedoms, ect all just a cover up! There in it to set off those road side bombs, they do not want peace and stability in Iraq! They want violence, and they want to be stuck there for the next ten to fifteen years!

Brilliant conclusion.

America (the government) doesn't want to leave Iraq until there is a 'user-friendly' government in place that will do what America wants! As I mentioned on the "Low Blow" thread (page 5), Maliki is just starting to figure that out now!

Of course, these are just the opinions of a woman ~ and what do we women know?

Ninth Scribe

[therebbe]

America (the government) doesn't want to leave Iraq until there is a 'user-friendly' government in place that will do what America wants!

I really doubt that. Do you realize all the think tanks and people trying to figure out how they can get USA troops out of that sitation while at the same time not leave it a complete anarchy?

You should really do some research before reading into these conspiracy theories.

Of course, these are just the opinions of a woman ~ and what do we women know?

What relevance does that have to anything? The opinion of anyone is not anymore valid because of there gender. Someones opinion is more valid because of there knowledge.

[Joe98]

The "Lions" are the only ones who kill civillians and it's all about sectarian gangs.

American troops……..are all the good guys and have never killed civillians, raped women, etc.

The US gov’t has a policy not to kill civilians

The US gov’t has a policy not to rape women

If a US soldier murders or rapes he will be tried in a court.


The insurgents policy is to kill civilains

The insurgents policy is to rape women

If an insurgent kills civilians and rapes women he gets rewarded by other insurgents because the deaths will be blamed on the "occupation".

[KAding]

Yes, yes, yes. The "Lions" are the only ones who kill civillians and it's all about sectarian gangs. American troops, coalition forces and Maliki are all the good guys and have never killed civillians, raped women, etc.

Of course Americans have killed Iraqis. I think your claim is what is called a 'straw man' ;).

Three months ago I asked Maliki to offer "round-the-table amnesty" to all the fighters. Why? Because every one of them had the blood of innocents on their hands. Maliki, for some strange reason, believed Amnesty should be offered only to those who didn't need it. That was a joke and of course the plan failed!

That 'strange reason' was of course pressure from his own base not to be too soft on those who had targeted them. I happen to agree with you, but then again, I'm not the one being targeted by suicide bombings and car bombs! I thought you were the one who was always full of understanding why people in Iraq react like they do? Do you have no sympathy for the Shi'ite postion? Decades of oppression by Sunnis, now they finally get a say in government and those same Sunni's do their utmost to destroy it and attack Shiite targets wherever they can.

As for the sectarian BS - Al Sadr extended his hand to the Sunni "lions" and announced that he wanted to join forces with them to fight the invasion, or as he put it... "cut off the head of the snake"... so he didn't view the Sunni "lions" as enemies.

Depends. Al Sadr was overjoyed when he heard of the death of the "lion" for which you wept, Al Zarqawi. Sadr has no problem aligning with those who fight just the occupation, he has no interest in joining those who commit these suicide bombings against government and shiite targets.

Virtually every week in Iraq there are several massacres on the scale of Qana, yet nobody cares, that is what suprises me. As the conflict in Iraq has increasingly 'iraqified' the interest on this forum and from Muslims in general has simply declined. It's as if they are too embarrased to discuss this primarily Muslim on Muslim violence.

Now I don't know who's playing what games here, but to even suggest that the bloodshed is all the fault of the Sunni "lions" is pure BS, at best.

Of course not 'all' of it is the fault of these Sunni "lions". But that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the major bombings on markets, funerals, the Iraqi government institutions and Shiite religious processions is the work of these people. They are not the work of 'sectarian gangs', they are the work of highly organized Sunni 'resistance' groups, the ones you claim to understand so well. Initially the Shiites restrained themselves and refrained from revenge. But those times are over, they have no intention letting this happen anymore. Exactly the reason why they resisted a broader amnesty, they are pissed off.

They're all ticking me off with the killing of the civilians, the twisting of words and the bending of images, and believe me when I tell you, my light is going to shine all over this... but to stop it will take... ROUND THE TABLE AMNESTY! End of story.

I agree, that would be best.

[Islamicboy]

Iraqis have to act smart be like hezbollaah unity is number 1 and allah will help them to victory inshallaah. All the people that commit sectarian voilence are criminals.

[therebbe]

Iraqis have to act smart be like hezbollaah unity is number 1 and allah will help them to victory inshallaah. All the people that commit sectarian voilence are criminals.

Wait if you commit sectarian violence your a criminal, but if you commit unitarian violence your a hero? Violence is Violence, there is no difference!

Decades of oppression by Sunnis, now they finally get a say in government and those same Sunni's do their utmost to destroy it and attack Shiite targets wherever they can.

The same Shia that basically began the violence under Al-Sadr? The Shia are no less guilty than the Sunni.

Virtually every week in Iraq there are several massacres on the scale of Qana, yet nobody cares, that is what suprises me.

Oh people will care when it is the Americans who commit such a massacre. But they have nothing to say on the matter when it is a Shia or Sunni group.

[Ninth_Scribe]

The US gov’t has a policy not to kill civilians

The US gov’t has a policy not to rape women

If a US soldier murders or rapes he will be tried in a court.


The insurgents policy is to kill civilains

The insurgents policy is to rape women

If an insurgent kills civilians and rapes women he gets rewarded by other insurgents because the deaths will be blamed on the "occupation".

The "policy" you speak of isn't worth the paper it's written on to Iraqis... and we all know why!

I hate the word "insurgents" but you think they don't have policies? Really? Gee, have you read Jill Carroll's publication about her experience as a hostage of the Mujahideen? Don't push my buttons today over trivialities. You just have no idea how ticked off I am at the moment (different issue and I can't discuss it).

It was EVERYONES policy to kill civillians.... I have documentation on that from ALL parties involved, so spare me the lecture about how U.S. reasoning was 'better' than Al Qeada's. None of it will wash with me. Ever. And I'm clearly not in any frame of mind to be civil right now, so I'm going to leave this forum till I can cool my jets and figure out what to do about this... situation.

Ninth Scribe

[Geronimo]

The "policy" you speak of isn't worth the paper it's written on to Iraqis... and we all know why!

I hate the word "insurgents" but you think they don't have policies? Really? Gee, have you read Jill Carroll's publication about her experience as a hostage of the Mujahideen? Don't push my buttons today over trivialities. You just have no idea how ticked off I am at the moment (different issue and I can't discuss it).

It was EVERYONES policy to kill civillians.... I have documentation on that from ALL parties involved, so spare me the lecture about how U.S. reasoning was 'better' than Al Qeada's. None of it will wash with me. Ever. And I'm clearly not in any frame of mind to be civil right now, so I'm going to leave this forum till I can cool my jets and figure out what to do about this... situation.

Ninth Scribe

Let's ask Nick Berg what the policies of insurgents are. Oh wait you can't because he has no head. Maybe Jessica Lynch can enlighten you.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Let's ask Nick Berg what the policies of insurgents are. Oh wait you can't because he has no head. Maybe Jessica Lynch can enlighten you.

Jessica Lynch was in the U.S. armed forces... fighting against the Iraqis. Nick Berg was not, but was an American male who was helping the Americans. I hate to repeat this old news because, at least to me, it was made crystal clear from the beginning:

Rules of Engagement:

1) All American soldiers are targets.
2) Anyone who helps them (Iraqis, Americans, anyone) are targets.

Civilian women, of any background, are excluded from this list for obvious reasons. Zarqawi himself demanded that Maragaret Hassan's kidnappers publish proof that she was a "spy, conspiring against Muslims" or release her immediately.

Not all groups out there, however, are Mujahideen, but when you make a post with the name "Lions of Iraq" you've made it clear to me who you are accusing and I will address those complaints because I have no reason to believe they deserve anywhere near the ridecule they've received.

And before you decide to use cheap shots like Nick Berg... why not ask his own father who he feels is truly responsible for the death of his son?

Ninth Scribe

[Keltoi]

As if the "insurgents" only beheaded and murdered people with some connection to the United States. It is pure BS. I'm offended by people who are so pro-American they don't stop to consider those who died for no reason because of US actions. I'm just as offended by those who are so taken with the "freedom fighter" romantic garbage that they defend almost any action taken in the name of this "freedom".

[Ninth_Scribe]

As if the "insurgents" only beheaded and murdered people with some connection to the United States. It is pure BS. I'm offended by people who are so pro-American they don't stop to consider those who died for no reason because of US actions. I'm just as offended by those who are so taken with the "freedom fighter" romantic garbage that they defend almost any action taken in the name of this "freedom".

It "offends" me to hear accusations that only contain half-truths no matter who they're talking about. To speak the whole truth: this is war... and war is ugly and poor civilians are always the ones who pay the price because they can't move themselves from the battle-ground. I didn't get that at first. I would have thought they all would leave because that's what I would do. But that didn't happen in Iraq. It didn't happen in New Orleans - even when they had three days notice to get the hell out.

Has nothing to do with romance... It's not like I gave my heart on a silver platter to Zarqawi. He had to earn that. He did.

Ninth Scribe

[therebbe]

Rules of Engagement:

1) All American soldiers are targets.
2) Anyone who helps them (Iraqis, Americans, anyone) are targets.

Civilian women, of any background, are excluded from this list for obvious reasons. Zarqawi himself demanded that Maragaret Hassan's kidnappers publish proof that she was a "spy, conspiring against Muslims" or release her immediately.

By your sickening 'rules of war' that means that all civilians that are not women and children are legal targets.

So by your disgusting theory American has the right to run around and kill any Iraq male civilian and chop his head off if they help the insurgents?

Absolutly barbaric and you have made me sick to my stomach at the thought of this.

[Ninth_Scribe]

By your sickening 'rules of war' that means that all civilians that are not women and children are legal targets.

So by your disgusting theory American has the right to run around and kill any Iraq male civilian and chop his head off if they help the insurgents?

Absolutly barbaric and you have made me sick to my stomach at the thought of this.

Well, I'll be... twacks your monitor screen from the other side...aren't you so perfect and innocent! Yes, yes, no human being "kills to live" in this world, do they now? So it's the beheading style of execution that gets you the most? Well, I would normally complain myself, but I know I'd hear the tinkling of a glass house shattering very soon after that. Where I come from, we did worse to the Bourbons. You push any human being to the point where they feel their lives are threatened and just watch how the lines are drawn. The hunters will live. That's the way it works here.

Ninth Scribe

[ManchesterFolk]

Your a true advocate for peace and justice.

Killed or be killed.

Where did you learn your ever so deep philosophys. The school of Cave Men and Cave Women?

By your theories the world the will never be peaceful.

[Geronimo]

If she wants to play by those rules so be it. Let's place the age at let's say 13. I would implement that all males 13 and older would be shot on site because by not reporting these"freedom fighters" obviously they are collaborating them. I would also implement that no body shall be burried instead they will be slathered in pig fat and burned on the spot. Anyone that tries to stop this action would meet the same fate male or female because they will then cease to be innocent civilians. I mean this is war isn't it?

[therebbe]

If she wants to play by those rules so be it. Let's place the age at let's say 13. I would implement that all males 13 and older would be shot on site because by not reporting these"freedom fighters" obviously they are collaborating them. I would also implement that no body shall be burried instead they will be slathered in pig fat and burned on the spot. Anyone that tries to stop this action would meet the same fate male or female because they will then cease to be innocent civilians. I mean this is war isn't it?

She is loading her shot gun as we speak. :giggling:

[Keltoi]

It's just garbage founded in nothing but one person's sick version of reality. I shouldn't even have responded to it, but I was bored at the time.

[therebbe]

Has nothing to do with romance... It's not like I gave my heart on a silver platter to Zarqawi. He had to earn that. He did.

How did Zarqawi earn your 'heart'? Did he earn your heart after he blew up a wedding in Jordan where he killed 30 people celebrating there marriage?

Maybe after you saw the pictures of the babies that he killed on the news, that is what won him your "heart"...

Do you call it a "heart"?

[Keltoi]

How did Zarqawi earn your 'heart'? Did he earn your heart after he blew up a wedding in Jordan where he killed 30 people celebrating there marriage?

Maybe after you saw the pictures of the babies that he killed on the news, that is what won him your "heart"...

Do you call it a "heart"?

After I saw that comment I suddenly lost interest in anything else the poster had to say.

[Ninth_Scribe]

By your sickening 'rules of war' that means that all civilians that are not women and children are legal targets.

So by your disgusting theory American has the right to run around and kill any Iraq male civilian and chop his head off if they help the insurgents?

Absolutly barbaric and you have made me sick to my stomach at the thought of this.

Dear Kettle,

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah!

The Pot

[therebbe]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah!

Great input.



Ninth Scribe said and then minutes after edited it out:

ETA: Door swings BOTH ways pal. It isn't like these people weren't provoked, but that's not what they teach the cattle here.

So because they were "provoked" they know under your theory on war have the right to kill any civilian who aids America because "thats war"? If the door truly "swings both ways" then you would have no objection to American soldiers killing civilians who aided the insurgency because "thats war" correct?

Since the door "swings both ways" I assume you agree that America than had the right to invade Afghanistan I mean they were "provoked" were they not? Notice I am using your own theories here...

Let me guess, with all your theories of how innocent people are all fair game because "its war" when are will you be receiving your Nobel peace prize? If every country implemented your theories of what war is into there own policy we would probably see genocides and massacres unknown to anyone in the history of this earth.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Iraqis have to act smart be like hezbollaah unity is number 1 and allah will help them to victory inshallaah. All the people that commits sectarian violence are criminals.

Well, the way I understood it, the Shia in Iraq were buying the whole government thing because a Shiite was in office. The stategy, if it could be called that, was to demonstrate to the Shiite armies that America was still pulling all the strings. So Zarqawi engaged them, and the American troops intervened. In so doing, the point was proven: It didn't actually make a difference that a Shiite was in office... he has no real power. They may have killed Zarqawi, but the point was still made. I'm pretty sure Al Sadr, who wasn't fond on the occupation from the start, can see that now.

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Great input.



Ninth Scribe said and then minutes after edited it out:


So because they were "provoked" they know under your theory on war have the right to kill any civilian who aids America because "thats war"? If the door truly "swings both ways" then you would have no objection to American soldiers killing civilians who aided the insurgency because "thats war" correct?

Since the door "swings both ways" I assume you agree that America than had the right to invade Afghanistan I mean they were "provoked" were they not? Notice I am using your own theories here...

Let me guess, with all your theories of how innocent people are all fair game because "its war" when are will you be receiving your Nobel peace prize? If every country implemented your theories of what war is into there own policy we would probably see genocides and massacres unknown to anyone in the history of this earth.

Wow, stalking the thread? Impressed! No, the U.S. doesn't have the right to rule the whole world just because it has a hard-on for Al Qaeda... but that's what Bush is trying to do and he'll bring the whole of the western world into this war, kicking and screaming, to get his way. None of these men give a rat's behind about the poor civilians. They never have. If you can't deal with that dose of reality - too bad, that's the way this world has ALWAYS been!

I'm not out to win a prize... a cookie... or a rubber biscuit.

Ninth Scribe

[therebbe]

Wow, stalking the thread? Impressed!

Thank you! I get an E-mail everytime someone posts in this thread and I rush over here to see if it was you posting your latest theories on how the innocent civilians in war are all "fair game" according to your theories.

No, the U.S. doesn't have the right to rule the whole world just because it has a hard-on for Al Qaeda...

The US does not have the right to rule the whole world...

Just like Al-Queda has no right to crash airplanes into buildings and kill innocent...

Just like Saddam has no right to gas thousands upon thousands of Kurds and then try to cover up there remains because he feels like it...

None of these men give a rat's behind about the poor civilians.

And Zarqawi your "hero" who won your "heart" cares about the poor civilians when he blows up a wedding that kills 30 people including babies? Disgusting.

Each post you make only builds up the list of contradictions your 'theories' have.

[nimrod]

Geeze, Ninth Scribe, I can’t tell if you are parroting the Israeli or Hezbollah mantra on this thread.

Ninth Scribe " this is war... and war is ugly and poor civilians are always the ones who pay the price because they can't move themselves from the battle-ground. I didn't get that at first. I would have thought they all would leave because that's what I would do. But that didn't happen in Iraq. It didn't happen in New Orleans - even when they had three days notice to get the hell out".


Thanks
Nimrod

[Ninth_Scribe]

Geeze, Ninth Scribe, I can’t tell if you are parroting the Israeli or Hezbollah mantra on this thread.

Ninth Scribe " this is war... and war is ugly and poor civilians are always the ones who pay the price because they can't move themselves from the battle-ground. I didn't get that at first. I would have thought they all would leave because that's what I would do. But that didn't happen in Iraq. It didn't happen in New Orleans - even when they had three days notice to get the hell out".


Thanks
Nimrod

Recitation is of history. Hezbollah, Israel, Iraq, etc... these are only new names and faces. The underlying concept and the strategies are no different.

All mankind has taught me is that it repeats it's history every so often. The arm hates the finger and the head hates the leg. Nothing new, nothing interesting... no enlightenment to be found here. Makes me wonder why I bothered to come here in the first place.

Even the 'holier-than-thou' attitudes I come across on occassion are predictable. Yes, yes, yes, war is wrong... it's so wrong in fact it's become the most popular sport on the planet. Yawn. Spare me. All those who complain here, have yet to produce a single alterative... that works. Save your breath on me... it won't get anyone anywhere.

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Killed or be killed.

Where did you learn your ever so deep philosophys. The school of Cave Men and Cave Women?

You can say that while eating the lives of others? This isn't heaven where we get and give at the same rate, like the speed of light. This is a different place and as much as you might pretend that dinner of your's didn't cost a life... it's just a fancy deception. You should turn your light on and have a good look at the world your standing in... you'll never make it neat, painless and perfect. It wasn't even designed for that.

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

The US does not have the right to rule the whole world...

Just like Al-Queda has no right to crash airplanes into buildings and kill innocent...

Just like Saddam has no right to gas thousands upon thousands of Kurds and then try to cover up there remains because he feels like it...

And Zarqawi your "hero" who won your "heart" cares about the poor civilians when he blows up a wedding that kills 30 people including babies? Disgusting. Each post you make only builds up the list of contradictions your 'theories' have.

Conveniently leaving Israel out of the mix here? Gee, there's a shock! So what was their excuse for the innocents they slaughtered for the sake of some old rocks and dirt? Or is Avodah Zarah legal now?

Zarqawi apologized for the incident in Jordan.

America apologized for the incident in Pakistan.

Maliki has proven that since his family was threatened, he can act exactly the same way Saddam did.

Israel hasn't made a single apology to any of the Palestinian men, women and children it's destroyed for it's addiction to old dirt... and that was the INCIDENT that triggered all this happy-joy we see today. You want to herald world peace? You want heaven on earth? Than GIVE at the same rate you TAKE. Otherwise, your words are a waste of breath and all the red heifers on the planet won't change that. You're not better than Zarqawi... you're just different!

Ninth Scribe

[Ninth_Scribe]

Let's place the age at let's say 13. I would implement that all males 13 and older would be shot on site because by not reporting these "freedom fighters" obviously they are collaborating them. I would also implement that no body shall be burried instead they will be slathered in pig fat and burned on the spot.

As I reminded you on the Low Blow thread, the Catholic church has been very busy doing that already - for no reason at all - to children under the age of 13! The man responsible would have been prosecuted, but the pope took him out of our legal reach. That was the price those kids paid for believing that the church was a holy respite from this evil world.

I could go all the way down the list too... but I'm pretty sure I've made my point crystal clear. Point the finger all you want... but there is always another who can point their finger at you. Always.

Ninth Scribe

[ManchesterFolk]

Conveniently leaving Israel out of the mix here? Gee, there's a shock! So what was their excuse for the innocents they slaughtered for the sake of some old rocks and dirt? Or is Avodah Zarah legal now?

What is the excuse all the Muslim extremists have for slaughtering people for the sake of old rocks and dirt. Your pointless comparisons and your as usual heartless comments shouldn't open anyones eyes. I think I will name you 'Evil'... Your theory: Kill boys and girls because its war... My theory: Trying and creaty peace and stabability.

Israel hasn't made a single apology

Does it feel good to lie? Israel has apologized so like your hero mass murderer Zarqawi they should be forgiven correct? Please!

addiction to old dirt...

Addiction for old dirt? Have seen the Middle East. Tell me the number of square miles Muslim countries have and then compare it to Jewish countries in the region. Who has the addiction for 'old dirt again'?

I'm pretty sure I've made my point crystal clear.

Yes you have made your point. You believe Murder is okay... You justify the serial killers, the rapists, the guilty because 'thats war'...

You have made no point. All I wonder is if you have a soul.

Otherwise, your words are a waste of breath

A waste of breath? Your talking! Hahahahaha! Funny!

You're not better than Zarqawi... you're just different!

No better than Zarqawi? Are you kidding? Your comapring someone to mass murderer.

At least he did not 'give his heart' to a mass murderer.

[Ninth_Scribe]

Above comments...

I was very upset the other day because I've been blessed/cursed with excellent vision and can see things coming before most people, but I can't do anything about it, which is frustrating, so I participated in the cycle we all seem to be so fond of these days (finger pointing back and forth to make arguments go around in circles). Allow me to simplify my point.

To end all this BS once and for all will take ROUND THE TABLE AMNESTY!

No picking and chosing. For every horror tale you can produce, your opponents can match you, and so on, and so on, and so on, all around the table. So, to me, the loss of innocent life is a shared curse that everyone is guilty of.

As for Zarqawi, if you took away all of his deeds, both good and bad, he's a brilliant soul. He re-acted to the actions of others, by what he saw and what he learned here. He had an incredible force of will... and he was a fearless lion! I doubt we'd be a good match, since I'm more of an eagle than a lion (would never tolerate my field of vision being pigeon-holed), but I still admire him for both his courage and conviction. I'm pretty sure he'll recover from this world.

You seem to feel that these lions are psychotic. To me though, it seems amusing that Americans condemn the suicide missions, while watching movies like Independence Day - cheering on the old drunk who becomes the hero and saves the day. What's the difference?

So I sit here and listen to all the different sides say the same thing. I'm sorry but I don't agree that the Lions in Iraq are the only cause of the problem any more than I believe Zarqawi was... because none of them fired a single shot off until after the invasion!

You don't blame a war on it's... soldiers! Every one of these soldiers (all sides) followed orders. American soldiers are testifying that they were ordered to kill all Iraqi males that were combat age. I mean, I could go on, because I have more records than you do... but it would just go around in circles like some twisted version of the Red Sox / Yankees rivalry... goes nowhere.

Ninth Scribe

[therebbe]

(

I'm sorry but I don't agree that the Lions in Iraq are the only cause of the problem any more than I believe Zarqawi was...

But you don't believe he is a part of the problem. You proclaimed in an early post that he "won your heart"... and he apologized after he blew up a Muslimwedding in Jordan killing 30, so he is good again. In your mind, I assume American soldiers can just rape an Iraqi and then say sorry and there are forgiven like Zarqawi. Your opinion not mine.

You seem to feel that these lions are psychotic. To me though, it seems amusing that Americans condemn the suicide missions, while watching movies like Independence Day - cheering on the old drunk who becomes the hero and saves the day. What's the difference?

What's the difference? Are you seriously asking that?

Just think for a second. The movie "Independance Day" is a MOVIE. It is not real! The Lions are real! There suicide attacks kill innocent people. Your comparing suicide attacks that end innocent civilians lives with a fiction movie about aliens? I guess only the most enlightened minds of our era decide to compare real life situations that are killing people to fiction movies and then try to justify what there doing by refering to a Fiction movie.

As for Zarqawi, if you took away all of his deeds, both good and bad, he's a brilliant soul. He re-acted to the actions of others, by what he saw and what he learned here. He had an incredible force of will... and he was a fearless lion!

Just sickening. When Zarqawi blew up a wedding killing babies and newly weds in Jordan how was he as you say "re-acting to thr actions of others"... Was he re-acting to them eating cake? What was the justification for that. But since he said "sorry" you forgive him right? Absolutly sickening on your part. +o(

[Keltoi]

Unbelievable....

[Ninth_Scribe]

The movie "Independance Day" is a MOVIE. It is not real! The Lions are real!

Excuse me, but it's not my fault so many American people could relate to the character of the rowdy old drunk who saved the day... and your argument over reality shatters when it's held up to things like... propaganda! Real or imagined, if people can RELATE - the point is made and it stands out. You're just pissed off because it was a valid point. Or do you honestly believe that because war is written in fiction, it can't possily exist in reality - you're too funny!

When Zarqawi blew up a wedding killing babies and newly weds in Jordan...

Ah, back to the finger pointing. Nice kick off to Armegheddon, lol. In your perverted mind, No one but Zarqawi has done this... or maybe you're trying to say the Jews had better reasons to do it?

If I had to condemn anyone, I'd have to condemn you all.

Ninth Scribe

[Keltoi]

He didn't say nobody but Zarqawi had committed murder, he was pointing out the hypocrisy of your statements. You defend Zarqawi all day long for blowing up a wedding, and haven't seen anything from Zarqawi in which he "apologized" for an act he set up in the first place, but if you have a link to this "apology" I will retract that.
As for the "Independence Day" analogy. You are talking about a movie. In this movie the world is on the brink of destruction and the suicidal pilot sacrificed his life to save those left alive. It was Hollywood fantasy. Suicide bombers blow up women and children for no other reason than to commit murder. They aren't saving any lives, they are taking them. Stupid analogy, but I suppose stupidity must be addressed from time to time.

[Ninth_Scribe]

In the words of my generation... UP YOURS!

The above may have been written into fiction, but it is the heart of the whole problem! This, in thought, in word, and in deed, accounts for 100% of the problem. Bin Laden said it. Israel said it. America said it. Hezbollah said it. Zarqawi said it. And the thousands of people who follow them!

I wanted to know WHY everyone felt they had to say it... especially from the most hostile, because they were causing the most trouble! I've since learned it's more tied to the Nature of this world than to anything else. I wanted to intervene, but not a single person from any of these groups were willing to just split the difference, share the blame, and walk away.

The "sectarian violence" strategy is contained in a fiction as well, but it played out flawlessly on the stage of real life! What was the fiction? A TV show called Numb3rs. The episode? 2:12 - The O.G. - not that you'd bother to watch it, but there's your answer.

I honestly don't know why I bother to write because you'll never understand me. To most people, I've always been a strange kind of creature. I'm not really interested in the affairs of this world. I won't buy a house or things like that because, well, no one really owns this world or any part of it. I play with my toys: cigarette boats, jets... because I love the open sea and the open sky! Horseback riding through mountains, blueberries and real maple syrup... Mmm. I'm also easily amused. A couple days back I was furious because the cease-fire was threatened. What cheered me up? A Monarch butterfly landed on my car to show off his wings.

Since 911, I have tried to understand all the elements involved, and that's why I came to this forum. But I've made an important decision. I've heard all sides of these issues for quite some time now and as I said before, it just goes around in circles: This one hates that one because he did the same thing the other one did, but this one did it because that one started it... I can get this from any child's play-group. I haven't learned a thing except that this is just the way men behave. It's like they all need something to war about... in thoughts, words and deeds. So... opens the four gates wide... have at it.

I wasted this whole summer online and accomplished nothing! So, I'm cancelling my internet subscription and I'm going off to ride the horses. Autumn is coming, and that will triple my energy levels! Hay rides, spiked cider, breath-taking foliage and the harvest festivals!

I'm sure you're all capable of taking it from here~~~

Ninth Scribe

[therebbe]

wasted this whole summer online and accomplished nothing! So, I'm cancelling my internet subscription and I'm going off to ride the horses. Autumn is coming, and that will triple my energy levels! Hay rides, spiked cider, breath-taking foliage and the harvest festivals!

Have fun. Maybe the outdoors with clear up your head.

[ManchesterFolk]

This sectarian violence must end. Are these people blind to the fact that they are creating a dark future for there children?