Atheism and the Afterlife

[Dahir]

I want to ask a REALLY simple question to Atheists:

What is the Afterlife and do you believe in it?

Please explain to me the Atheist Afterlife.

[Joe98]

Athiest men get 73 beautiful women to enjoy in any way we want!

We also get an unlimited supply of chocolate ( to build up the strength of course!)


Athiest women get to live near the Great Department Store in the sky.

They also get complete access to the Great Shoe Stor ein the sky.


What more could you want :D

[Dahir]

Joe, you dog, you! :D

C'mon, seriously, I want to know about the Atheist afterlife, I've recently been studying Atheism, it looks interesting since I've never studied it, and I would like some answers, and later compare it to other afterlife variants in other religions.


:)

[Joe98]

Where do mouse go when they die?

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[Woodrow]

Where do mouse go when they die?

As much as I hate to admit it, that is a very valid and honest answer from your perspective.

[Dahir]

As much as I hate to admit it, that is a very valid and honest answer from your perspective.

?????

[Dahir]

Where do mouse go when they die?

So you just become nothing? That doesn't sound very promising. :heated:

[Woodrow]

?????

The topic is a moot question. The question has absolutly no bearing on an atheists belief of an after life. By definition an atheist does not believe there will be an after life. An atheist believes that neither he nor a mouse have an afterlife, therefore they both go to the same place, which is not going any place.

Sort of like asking a person where do the contents of an empty box go when you bury the box.

[KAding]

This is interesting, so Muslims believe animals don't go to an afterlife? Why would that be? Because they have no soul?

[KAding]

So you just become nothing? That doesn't sound very promising. :heated:

Yes, afterlife will be exactly like beforelife.

[syilla]

This is interesting, so Muslims believe animals have don't go to an afterlife? Why would that be? Because they have no soul?

from what i've learnt...animals have an afterlife...and even stones and etc...

anyway i might be wrong...lets wait for the knowledgeable ones to answer.

[root]

As an atheist, I don't accept an afterlife. The best way to describe my end is that I will be in the same place I was in 1969! (I was born in 1970)

The atoms that make up my body will simply change thier complex shape and one day my atoms that make me will be a tree or part of a star in a new galaxy, the atoms that make me will be around a lot longer than me!

[Dahir]

As an atheist, I don't accept an afterlife. The best way to describe my end is that I will be in the same place I was in 1969! (I was born in 1970)

The atoms that make up my body will simply change thier complex shape and one day my atoms that make me will be a tree or part of a star in a new galaxy, the atoms that make me will be around a lot longer than me!

What? You're kidding! Then there must be different kind of Atheists.

Here's what I got from another Atheist, but this guy's a physics genius:

He says that when you die, you are reborn, in the physical/atomical sense.

See, in your lifetime, you die many times; your five-year-old self is not alive anymore, he's dead; your ten-year-old self is also dead, and you were reborn, without your conscience.

So, when you die, physically you are there, but you will become another life form, maybe grass or something, maybe another person. The atoms that make up your body would join the roots of your tomb and become live dirt, or maybe termites.

Somehow it'll make sense, if you're a physics genius, but that's what I got from another genius.

[therebbe]

What? You're kidding! Then there must be different kind of Atheists.

Here's what I got from another Atheist, but this guy's a physics genius:

He says that when you die, you are reborn, in the physical/atomical sense.

See, in your lifetime, you die many times; your five-year-old self is not alive anymore, he's dead; your ten-year-old self is also dead, and you were reborn, without your conscience.

So, when you die, physically you are there, but you will become another life form, maybe grass or something, maybe another person. The atoms that make up your body would join the roots of your tomb and become live dirt, or maybe termites.

Somehow it'll make sense, if you're a physics genius, but that's what I got from another genius.

Atheists do not believe in an afterlife or a supreme being. It is not a very hard concept to grasp.

[therebbe]

a·the·ist

( P ) Pronunciation Key (

th

-

st)
n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.______________


ag·nos·tic

( P ) Pronunciation Key (

g-n

s

t

k)
n.

1. 1. <LI type=a>One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
   2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

[Abdul Fattah]

@KAding

This is interesting, so Muslims believe animals don't go to an afterlife? Why would that be? Because they have no soul?

I think what brother Woodrow was saying here was: Atheist think that mice don't have a soul and thus don't have an afterlife. We do believe mice have soul, and thus they will have an afterlife.

@Root

As an atheist, I don't accept an afterlife. The best way to describe my end is that I will be in the same place I was in 1969! (I was born in 1970)

That's a simplistic line of reasoning, just because you weren't there in the past doesn't mean you will no longer be there in the future either. That's like comparing cat's with dogs.

@Dahir

What? You're kidding! Then there must be different kind of Atheists.

Here's what I got from another Atheist, but this guy's a physics genius:

He says that when you die, you are reborn, in the physical/atomical sense.

See, in your lifetime, you die many times; your five-year-old self is not alive anymore, he's dead; your ten-year-old self is also dead, and you were reborn, without your conscience.

So, when you die, physically you are there, but you will become another life form, maybe grass or something, maybe another person. The atoms that make up your body would join the roots of your tomb and become live dirt, or maybe termites.

Somehow it'll make sense, if you're a physics genius, but that's what I got from another genius.

The difrence here is, this atheist you refer to sees people as nothing more then flesh and bones. Atoms made up out of energy, energy which will constitute a difrent matter once in the future, albeit animate or inanimate. But dualism tels us that the essence of a human being is something entirely difrent: the soul ;, and that our bodies are nothing but shells. So i'd say this isn't really an "afterlife" this is just a description of waht your cels will become "after life". Afterlife, in contrary to after life is mostly interested in what will happen to our consciousness as opposed to what will happen to our flesh.

@therebbe
Just because you as an atheist don't believe in an afterlife, doesn't mean that other atheist can't believe in an afterlife. As you said, atheism means believing there is no God. Some people who believe in reincarnation also believe there is no God, but obviously they believe in an afterworld.

[wilberhum]

Atheists do not believe in an afterlife or a supreme being. It is not a very hard concept to grasp.

I have always been amazed at all the questions put to atheists.
I see athleticism as the easiest thing to understand.
How simple can it get?

No god!

That also means no ghosts, no spirits, no afterlife, no heaven, no hell, no angles, no jinn, no soul, and no ETC……….

What part of NO, can not be understood?

[Abdul Fattah]

I have always been amazed at all the questions put to atheists.
I see athleticism as the easiest thing to understand.
How simple can it get?

No god!

That also means no ghosts, no spirits, no afterlife, no heaven, no hell, no angles, no jinn, no soul, and no ETC……….

Actually as I said it's perfectly possible not to believe in God yet believe in ghosts or other metaphysical things. What you are suggesting actually lies closer to pragmatism then atheism.

[therebbe]

@therebbe
Just because you as an atheist don't believe in an afterlife, doesn't mean that other atheist can't believe in an afterlife. As you said, atheism means believing there is no God. Some people who believe in reincarnation also believe there is no God, but obviously they believe in an afterworld.

First off, I am not an atheist.

Second, Atheism means no belief in a supreme being or any kind of after life.

[wilberhum]

prag•ma•tism way of thinking about results: a straightforward practical way of thinking about things or dealing with problems, concerned with results rather than with theories and principles.

[Abdul Fattah]

First off, I am not an atheist.

Second, Atheism means no belief in a supreme being or any kind of after life.

Ok sorry for my wrong assumptions. As for atheism.
It's derived from Greek.
"A-" as perfix means no/none
"the" comes from theus/deus = God
"-ism" as suffix means systems and concepts —in belief, ideology, doctrine (contrary to what snoop doggy dog would have us believe)
By saying that atheism aslo means not believing in afterlife you are contradicting your own defenition.

As for pragmatism: Pragmatism, as a school of philosophy, is a collection of many different ways of thinking. Given the diversity among thinkers and the variety among schools of thought that have adopted this term over the years, the term pragmatism has become all but meaningless in the absence of further qualification. Most of the thinkers who describe themselves as pragmatists point to some connection with practical consequences or real effects as vital components of both meaning and truth. The precise character of these links to pragmata is however as diverse as the thinkers who do the pointing.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism

[KAding]

What? You're kidding! Then there must be different kind of Atheists.

Here's what I got from another Atheist, but this guy's a physics genius:

He says that when you die, you are reborn, in the physical/atomical sense.

See, in your lifetime, you die many times; your five-year-old self is not alive anymore, he's dead; your ten-year-old self is also dead, and you were reborn, without your conscience.

So, when you die, physically you are there, but you will become another life form, maybe grass or something, maybe another person. The atoms that make up your body would join the roots of your tomb and become live dirt, or maybe termites.

Somehow it'll make sense, if you're a physics genius, but that's what I got from another genius.

I'm no genius, but yes, that makes sense to me. Yet, we don't believe in an afterlife because we will not be consious after death, since our atoms are no longer arranged in such a way to make that possible.

[Abdul Fattah]

I'm no genius, but yes, that makes sense to me. Yet, we don't believe in an afterlife because we will not be consious after death, since our atoms are no longer arranged in such a way to make that possible.

Quick question, what is the corelation between atom arangement and consiousness? I understand what you meanth, but why would you asume that our consiousness is posible by a certain arangement. Is there a part of our brain reponsible for being consious. How does that work? How can simple chamical processes of our brain induce this feeling of awareness, selfreflect and consiousness we have?

[syilla]

so...nothing to look forward to...

so generally what is your purpose of living? i mean...what do you really want to achieve? is it only materialistic stuff?

[Joe98]

so generally what is your purpose of living?

This question led to the invention of gods by humans.

Horses don't have gods. Have you wondered about that?

i mean...what do you really want to achieve? is it only materialistic stuff?

I have no interest in materialism. I like activities.

I work during the week. I put some money aside for my retirement. I save some for the next trip. Each month I give the balance to charity. Sometimes I help out as a volunteer. But not often.

But my great loves are hiking, cycling and skiing. I do these in daylight hours when ever I can. if I were to win the lottery and retire I would follow the weather around the world and do these things every day!

After dark I can't do these things. So eating, drinking, talking and doing chores around the house are the major activities.

I have a wonderful life!

[جوري]

Foolishness is only expiated by death........ only then can all the mysteries be solved...........for now we each hang on to our own moral compass

[syilla]

This question led to the invention of gods by humans.

Horses don't have gods. Have you wondered about that?

How do you know? can you speak horse language...if you do...than you should teach me.

In Islam we believe...Allah is the horses god...even the trees..stones...and etc...

[Woodrow]

I really am not trying to be comical with this post. But a thought just struck me. How can an atheist define death? A dead person is chemicaly identical to a living person, what can be the difference between life and death in terms of physical matter? It is true the living organism usually is animated, but is the animation sufficient to define life?

[Joe98]

How can an atheist define death?
A dead person is chemicaly identical to a living person, what can be the difference between life and death in terms of physical matter?

A dead person is chemicaly identical to a living person, what can be the difference between a live Muslim and a dead Muslim in terms of physical matter?


No worms? :giggling:

[Woodrow]

A dead person is chemicaly identical to a living person, what can be the difference between a live Muslim and a dead Muslim in terms of physical matter?


No worms? :giggling:

Touche Monsuer, I walked into that one.

Actually I believe I can see what you are saying.

Basicaly, in your view a dead person is a non-functioning recyclable mass if I am understanding you correctly.

[Woodrow]

Now getting back to serious in answer to your question:

A

dead person is chemicaly identical to a living person, what can be the difference between a live Muslim and a dead Muslim in terms of physical matter?

A live Muslim is capable of atoning for his sins. A dead Muslim will have to face judgement based upon what he/she did in this time as a living Muslim and will spend the remainder of eternity as decided by that judgement.

The cynical writer Amrose Bierce once wrote "Will I be condemned to not having a soul, because I don't believe I have a soul?"

to paraphrase him I would say "is an atheist condemned to not seeing God(swt), because he does not believe God(swt) exists?"

[i_m_tipu]

The cynical writer Amrose Bierce once wrote "Will I be condemned to not having a soul, because I don't believe I have a soul?"

than what make a living thing running
:rollseyes

[Woodrow]

than what make a living thing running
:rollseyes

That is also my view point. I can not see any logical basis for life to even exist. To myself that alone is sufficient reason for me to believe in Allah(swt)

[i_m_tipu]

That is also my view point. I can not see any logical basis for life to even exist. To myself that alone is sufficient reason for me to believe in Allah(swt)

do a MAN deny this simple thing :giggling:

[i_m_tipu]

i have some posts here (test-faith-athiests) about the undeniable faith
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...thiests-4.html

[KAding]

Quick question, what is the corelation between atom arangement and consiousness? I understand what you meanth, but why would you asume that our consiousness is posible by a certain arangement. Is there a part of our brain reponsible for being consious. How does that work? How can simple chamical processes of our brain induce this feeling of awareness, selfreflect and consiousness we have?

That is my belief yes. That part of our brain induces consiousness. Clearly the brain determines whether or not we are consious of our environment, as in a state of sleep or coma. So why not death?

Mind you, although I am an atheist, I don't rule out that there is more to it, we do not understand everything after all. Objectively speaking we have no way of knowing what being dead is like, although we all know what it is like to be unconsious.

[KAding]

so...nothing to look forward to...

How so, I look forward to the rest of my life. After I'm dead, well, then I'll be dead. I'll have no time then to worry about anything.

so generally what is your purpose of living?

The purpose of life is life. Enjoy it, on all levels. Be happy.

i mean...what do you really want to achieve? is it only materialistic stuff?

Why would it only be materialistic stuff? Surely we all want to be surrounded by love and happiness. Sometimes material goods can help in that, sometimes it can't. It also depends on each person, some are more materialistic than others, in the sense that they are more quickly pleased by material possesions. To each his own I would say.

[KAding]

I really am not trying to be comical with this post. But a thought just struck me. How can an atheist define death? A dead person is chemicaly identical to a living person, what can be the difference between life and death in terms of physical matter? It is true the living organism usually is animated, but is the animation sufficient to define life?

I don't understand. Surely a living body is different from a dead one chemically? After all a dead body is not biologically alive and simply not functioning. The chemical processes at work inside the body are radically different, no?

More interesting is the case of someone like Terri Schiavo, who's body was still alive, but who's brain ceased to create consiousness. How do religous people see that? Has the soul already departed? In general I would think dementia is somewhat of a challenge to traditional religoous doctrine on death. After all, does dementia mean the soul has degraded? Or is the link between soul and body breaking down?

[KAding]

do a MAN deny this simple thing :giggling:

I deny it. It is wrong to assume everything must have a greater purpose. Life really has no purpose. Not for us, an not for my dog.

We just try to make the best of it :). Works fine for me.

[- Qatada -]

Shaykh al-Islam (Ibn Taymiyah) said:

“As for the animals, they will all be gathered by Allaah, as is indicated by the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

‘There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered’

[al-An’aam 6:38]

‘And when the wild beasts are gathered together’

[al-Takweer 81:5]

‘And among His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs, etc.) is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and whatever moving (living) creatures He has dispersed in them both. And He is All-Potent over their assembling (i.e. resurrecting them on the Day of Resurrection after their death, and dispersion of their bodies) whenever He wills'

[al-Shoora 42:29]

The word idha (translated here as when or whenever) refers to something that will inevitably come to pass. And there are many well known ahaadeeth on this topic. On the Day of Resurrection Allaah will gather the animals, and the scores among them will be settled. Then it will be said to them,“Be dust!” and they will become dust. At that point the kaafir will say, “Would that I were dust!” (al-Naba’ 72:40 – interpretation of the meaning). Whoever says that they will not be brought back to life is making a serious mistake, indeed he is misguided or is a kaafir. And Allaah knows best.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/248

Ahmad (20534) narrated from Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was sitting, and two sheep locked horns, and one of them butted the other and defeated it. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) smiled, and it was said to him, “Why are you smiling, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “Because of the sheep. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, it will settle its score with the other on the Day of Resurrection.”

Ahmad Shaakir said, its isnaad is hasan and unbroken.

Muslim (2582) narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “All rights will be restored on the Day of Resurrection, until even the hornless sheep will settle its score with the one that has horns.”

Al-Nawawi said:

This clearly indicates that the animals will be gathered on the Day of Resurrection, and that they will be brought back to life like human beings who are accountable, and like children and the insane and those who were not reached by the call of Islam. This is what is indicated by the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And when the wild beasts are gathered together”

[al-Takweer 81:5]

[- Qatada -]

Question :

Will there be animals in Al-Jannat?


Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

The animals that will be in Paradise according to the reports are of three types:

1 – Specific animals which it is said will themselves be in Paradise, such as the dog of the people of the Cave and the she-camel of Saalih (peace be upon him). There are no saheeh reports concerning them.


2 – Those which are mentioned in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, which Allaah has prepared for the believers in Paradise, whether they are mentioned in specific terms, such as the birds of which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And with the flesh of fowls that they desire”[al-Waaqi’ah 56:21]

or mentioned in general terms, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We shall provide them with fruit and meat such as they desire”[al-Toor 52:22]


Another example is the bull which Allaah has prepared as food for the people of Paradise, as was narrated from Thawbaan the freed slave of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “I was standing by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when one of the Jewish rabbis came and said, ‘Peace be upon you, O Muhammad,’ and I pushed him back so hard that he nearly fell over… He (the Jew) said: ‘What would be their food after this?’ He (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said: ‘A bull which was fed in the different quarters of Paradise would be slaughtered for them’…” Narrated by Muslim, 315.


3 – Those animals which have been specifically mentioned in the saheeh Sunnah, which will be in Paradise. These include:

(a) It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Pray in the sheep pens and wipe their dust (raghaam), for they are among the animals of Paradise.”

Narrated by al-Bayhaqi, 2/449; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 3789.

Raghaam means dust (as translated here). The word has also been narrated as ra’aam, which refers to the mucus that comes from the sheep’s nose. What is meant is to wipe the dust from it, or wipe away what comes from its nose, so as to look after it and take care of it. This was the view of al-Manaawi in Fayd al-Qadeer.

(b) It was narrated that Abu Mas’ood al-Ansaari said: A man brought a bridled she-camel and said, “This is for the sake of Allaah.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “You will have seven hundred she-camels in return on the Day of Resurrection, each of them bridled.” Narrated by Muslim, 1892.

Al-Nawawi said: What is meant by makhtoomah (bridled) is that it has a khitaam (bridle) on it, which is like a halter. And it was said that that it may be understood as meaning that he will have the reward of giving seven hundred she-camels, or it may be understood as it appears to be, and that he will have seven hundred she-camels in Paradise, each of them bridled, and he will be able to ride them wherever he wants, for pleasure, as was narrated concerning the horses and camels (nujab) of Paradise. This interpretation is more clear. And Allaah knows best.

Sharh al-Nawawi, 13/38.

The ahaadeeth about the camels and horses to which al-Nawawi referred are as follows

(a) It was narrated from Abu Ayyoob that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The people of Paradise will visit one another on white camels as if they are rubies, and there are no animals in Paradise apart from camels and birds.”

Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer, 4/179.

Al-Haythami said: This was narrated by al-Tabaraani. Its isnaad includes Jaabir ibn Nooh who is da’eef (weak). Majma’ al-Zawaa’id, 10/413. It was also classed as da’eef by al-Albaani in Da’eef al-Jaami’, 1833.

(b) It was narrated from Sulaymaan ibn Buraydah from his father that a man asked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “O Messenger of Allaah, will there be horses in Paradise?” He said, “If Allaah admits you to Paradise, you will not wish that you could be carried on a horse of red rubies which will fly wherever you want in Paradise, but that will happen.” And another man asked him, “O Messenger of Allaah, will there be camels in Paradise?” but he did not say something like he had said to his companion. He said, “If Allaah admits you to Paradise, you will have therein whatever your heart desires and will delight your eyes.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2543. Classd as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Targheeb, 3/522.

A similar report was also narrated by Abu Ayyoob from al-Tirmidhi, 2544; and also classed as saheeh by al-Albaani, 3/423.

And it was narrated in saheeh ahaadeeth that the souls of the martyrs are in the crops of birds in Paradise which fly wherever they want.

It should be noted that the birds, horses and camels in Paradise are not the same as those in this world; they resemble them in name only. What they are really like is known only to Allaah. But we know that they are extremely beautiful, because they are one of the delights that Allaah has prepared for His close friends in Paradise. This was indicated by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in the hadeeth quoted above, in which it says that the horses of Paradise are of red rubies, and will fly with their rider wherever he wants.

We ask Allaah to bless us and admit us to Paradise by His mercy, for He is the Most Generous.

islam Q&A

[KAding]

Thank you for that explanation Fi_Sabilillah :).

[QuranStudy]

Absence if evidence is not evidence of absence.

[جوري]

I don't understand. Surely a living body is different from a dead one chemically? After all a dead body is not biologically alive and simply not functioning. The chemical processes at work inside the body are radically different, no??

Kading...... .... You can harness a heart from a deceased person which isn't "biologically" active after it ceases being in a body. put it in another and it will again start to beat if God so wills it ... so how can we define the difference between being alive and being dead on that "chemical level" when you have something here that technically is dead? In Islam we don't know what the soul is or where it lies? ... its function is unknown... We can't define it by the chemical of physical processes that go on in this realm.... Its mysteries are known only to God

More interesting is the case of someone like Terri Schiavo, who's body was still alive, but who's brain ceased to create consiousness. How do religous people see that? Has the soul already departed? In general I would think dementia is somewhat of a challenge to traditional religoous doctrine on death. After all, does dementia mean the soul has degraded? Or is the link between soul and body breaking down?

The brain isn't the abode of the soul... Again we don't know where it lies, you can be under the influence of anesthetics, in any operation, they can even add an amnestic agent to make you forget the whole incident ... you will cease to "create" consciousness, but you will not be dead, there will be an assimilation between you and a person in a coma, and in fact some never recover from the anesthesia, but that is not how the soul is defined, it isn't disassembled or degraded when in the state of the unconscious....if that were the case your soul would be disassembled every night when in a stage III/ IV none REM sleep, and if in fact it were disassembled/degraded then that what assembles it back when you wake up?... such as was the case with the late MS Shiavo.... Although in her case she wasn't technically brain dead but had lost higher reticular function, her lower centers which are responsible for breathing, were still in tact.... Anyone can be in a coma for a number of year and never recover since Neurons can't regenerate, yet there is evidence in one or two cases that they can and have. what ever the case, sooner or later the body naturally atrophies from disuse from being bed ridden or old age or a decubitus, ... she would have died naturally.... modern science with all its technology can't keep cells from aging, or dying, even if they can keep your lungs breathing for you. My point being, we don't know what the soul is, where it dwells, we can't define the essence of life by the level of consciousness. or higher brain function or anything physical in this world... There is a clear difference between the state of being dead and the state of being alive. We don't know how something that is dead (harnessed heart) can beat again in someone, or fail to beat in another... if you can accept that there are things to which there is no explanation, and please don't take my word for it, ask any neurologist, they will tell you, as much as we have learned, there is much we don't know.... The essence of life, that amazing thing that makes you, well you ... and not someone else, born in this time, and not in another century, it is very unique, it is purposeful ... you are not a chance happening ... unless you chose to believe that?

[Joe98]

So it seems all the animals in paradise originate from the Middle East.

There will be no animals native to New Zealand, Australia or Canada in paradise.

The reason of course is that the people who wrote this were not aware of such animals.

Inspite of God knowing of such animals, they are banned from Paradise. And you still believe there is a God?

[Woodrow]

So it seems all the animals in paradise originate from the Middle East.

There will be no animals native to New Zealand, Australia or Canada in paradise.

The reason of course is that the people who wrote this were not aware of such animals.

Inspite of God knowing of such animals, they are banned from Paradise. And you still believe there is a God?

Nope, we don't really know any of that. If you reread the post by Fi-sabillilah you will noticed that very few animals are mentioned as being in heaven and that is qualified with statements such they are among the animals or are some of the animals. In reality we do not know all the animals that will be included or excluded. That is a very trivial point so there was no need for the Qur'an or the Sunnah to dwell over it. we do not need to worry about how to get our parakeet into heaven, our concern is how we can get ourselves into heaven.

[syilla]

So it seems all the animals in paradise originate from the Middle East.

There will be no animals native to New Zealand, Australia or Canada in paradise.

The reason of course is that the people who wrote this were not aware of such animals.

Inspite of God knowing of such animals, they are banned from Paradise. And you still believe there is a God?

where did you get from, that the animals in paradise originate from the Middle East?

[جوري]

lol.... what no tasmanian devils in heaven? then by deductive reasoning there is no God....At times the discussions here become absurd... When Descartes makes a claim there is a God, everyone jumps all over it.... Just not when there is an entire all encompassing doctrine ...

[Abdul Fattah]

More interesting is the case of someone like Terri Schiavo, who's body was still alive, but who's brain ceased to create consiousness. How do religous people see that? Has the soul already departed? In general I would think dementia is somewhat of a challenge to traditional religoous doctrine on death. After all, does dementia mean the soul has degraded? Or is the link between soul and body breaking down?

I don't know wheter Islam has some ruling regarding this situation. But just think about it for a sec. How can we determine wheter someone still has a consciousness or not? People say she was braindeath, nothing picked up by EEG scan. What does EEG scan do? it measures electrical potential in the brain. So you're asking me what does Islam think abou that? Well Islam believes consciousness is a matter of the soul, not of the electrical potentials in ones head. So all the EEG scans show us is that the soul no longer causes these potentials. Does that mean the soul is no longer inside the body? Perhaps it only means the brain no longers functions and hence doesn't alow the soul to create these electrical potentials any more... who knows...

But to get back on your suspision that consciousness can be obtained by nothying more then the chemical and electrical processes in our brain. If you are right, that would mean hypotetically speakeng, AI is manufacterable (wheter human beings are capable of making it is of course a whole difrent discussion). Don't forget, our nerve system also relies on electrical charges and so (according to the model without a soul) all our thought should rely on binary imput. So have you ever thought about it, if youwould write a computerprogram, how do you translate consciousness in binary numbers?