Conversion experience

[glo]

Hi all!

This thread is prompted by reading Ashley's account of what happened when she converted to Islam.

It made me realise that what she described was exactly how I felt when I became a Christian three years ago.
I remember feeling such joy and peace. I couldn't stop smiling to myself for days! :) I felt like belonging, like coming home.
The joy of walking with God has remained with me thoughout the years, as has the peace and tranquility I feel when I pray and worship him. :statisfie

It leaves me wondering how we may explain that people converting to different faiths can report the same spiritual experience?

Here are a few possible explanations I can think of:

• God reveals himself only to converts of one faith group, converts to other faiths are deceived
• God reveals himself to people of different faiths in the same way
• It is a psychological phenomenon, nothing else

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

I am aware that people will have very different views on this.
I would really appreciate it, if we could avoid any heated my-view-is-right-and-everybody-else-is-wrong debates.
Just expressing your personal view is be fine! :)

Peace.

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

btw randomly, wot were u b4? i mean wot religion were u following? or werent u?

[glo]

btw randomly, wot were u b4? i mean wot religion were u following? or werent u?

I had been brought in a Christian (Catholic) way, but I never related much to it as a child.

As a younger adult I dabbled a little with other faiths, but when I re-encountered the Christian faith, God blew me away! :statisfie There can never be another faith for me now ... for me this is the true way.

What about you? Do you have a conversion experience?

Peace

[therebbe]

Islam and Christianity contradict eachother. There is no way both could be right according to eachother. Therefore I would have to say that when you experience something new that brings you peace, (right or wrong according to G-d) then you have an emotioanl rush that gives you the feeling that you and Ashley both got when you converted.

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[glo]

Islam and Christianity contradict eachother. There is no way both could be right according to eachother. Therefore I would have to say that when you experience something new that brings you peace, (right or wrong according to G-d) then you have an emotioanl rush that gives you the feeling that you and Ashley both got when you converted.

Interesting, Rebbe.
Can I ask you if you had a conversion experience?

You don't disclose your faith, but I am guessing you are Jewish?
Can people convert to Judaism, or do you have to born a Jew?

Peace.

[QuranStudy]

Islam and Christianity contradict eachother.

Just like Judaism contradicts with Christianity? That is the who pupose of establishing seperate religions.

[therebbe]

You don't disclose your faith, but I am guessing you are Jewish?

Maybe. :)

Can I ask you if you had a conversion experience?

No, I have not.

Can people convert to Judaism, or do you have to born a Jew?

Yes, but it is discouraged and takes a long amount of time. The Torah gives seven commandments to gentiles and asks them to live righteous lives and they will go to heaven. So in essence there is not much of a point to convert unless you wish to marry a Jew or become part of the covenent the Jews made with G-d.

Jews love when people convert to a monotheistic faith because if the faith has in there 'holy book' the commandments that G-d gave for gentiles to follow then they are following the Torah basically without even realizing it.

Just like Judaism contradicts with Christianity? That is the who pupose of establishing seperate religions.

Exactly. Since religions contradict how could someone who converts to Islam and someone who converts to Christianity get that same feeling from G-d? Both groups believe that G-d would never give that feeling to someone turing away from the so called 'truth' they preach.

[KAding]

Interesting point. I have never thought about that. I would think there are indeed two possible explanations, as an atheist I would of course firstly explain it as a psychological issue. Mind you, this does not make it a bad thing, anything that brings happiness and personal peace can only be described as a good thing.

It is also interesting to note that this phenonemon is no doubt not limited to monotheistic religions, which further suggests that it is not necesarrily a typical monotheistic God that is 'touching' these believers. Either that, or God must not be a God that cares about which of the religions is 'correct', but rather touches those people who lead rightous and spiritual life's, regardless of the specific rules all these different religions prescribe. A bit like a Sikh, or yes even a Jew, would describe it. These different religions are merely different paths to the same God and to salvation.

But what do I know, I'm not religious ;).

[glo]

Hi KAding

I agree that there will be similar accounts amongst followers of non-monotheistic religions.

How about you?
Do you have any conversion experiences? Or un-conversion experiences for that matter? :D

[KAding]

Hi KAding

I agree that there will be similar accounts amongst followers of non-monotheistic religions.

How about you?
Do you have any conversion experiences? Or un-conversion experiences for that matter? :D

No, unfortunately not :). I have not been raised religious and I am still not religious. I simply do not believe.

My sister recently became very religious though, and she follows this line, that all these religions deserve respect, that all lead to God. She is both a strong believer in Christ and yet also a Buddhist. She has spends months in a (Christian) monestary in India and it is amazing to see how the religious philosophy of these nuns and monks she lived with is a mix of Eastern religions as Buddhism, Hinduism and Western Christianity. I can do nothing but respect that. These are people who do not stress differences, but rather similarities, who think of God in a spiritual rather than a legalistic sense. I think thats so beautiful :).

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

I had been brought in a Christian (Catholic) way, but I never related much to it as a child.

As a younger adult I dabbled a little with other faiths, but when I re-encountered the Christian faith, God blew me away! :statisfie There can never be another faith for me now ... for me this is the true way.

What about you? Do you have a conversion experience?

Peace

nope, im a born MUSLIM n soooooo proud of it.. alhamdulilah :statisfie :) :D:D:D

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

Maybe. :)




No, I have not.



Yes, but it is discouraged and takes a long amount of time. The Torah gives seven commandments to gentiles and asks them to live righteous lives and they will go to heaven. So in essence there is not much of a point to convert unless you wish to marry a Jew or become part of the covenent the Jews made with G-d.

Jews love when people convert to a monotheistic faith because if the faith has in there 'holy book' the commandments that G-d gave for gentiles to follow then they are following the Torah basically without even realizing it.



Exactly. Since religions contradict how could someone who converts to Islam and someone who converts to Christianity get that same feeling from G-d? Both groups believe that G-d would never give that feeling to someone turing away from the so called 'truth' they preach.

why didnt u juz say ur jewish, itz so obvious wid all dat info u gave :?

[KAding]

why didnt u juz say ur jewish, itz so obvious wid all dat info u gave :?

Maybe he's not religious but was raised Jewish. But than again, maybe he's not ;). Maybe it's none of our business :p.

[therebbe]

why didnt u juz say ur jewish, itz so obvious wid all dat info u gave

How do you know I'm Jewish? Maybe I just have a master in Comparitive Religion. :D You never know.

[MusLiM 4 LiFe]

and wht if he was..? hes stil a jew.. n mayb what if he woznt.. but what if its non of ur business, i woz askin him..??

[therebbe]

and wht if he was..? hes stil a jew.. n mayb what if he woznt.. but what if its non of ur business, i woz askin him..??

I thought I made it fairly obvious what my religion is. That doesn't mean I need to make it official though.


:D

[Abdul Fattah]

Ok my two cents:
Obviously this isn't an easy question to discuss interreligiously, because it's bound to end up in a I am right you are wrong discussion. But although my answer is somewhat among those lines, I hope you'll find it reasonable.
If Islam is right, that means christianity is not wrong, but rather deviated from it's true form. That means there's still a lot of good in it. And thus also a lot of "source" to feel good about. As for God, he might not be pleased with the way some religions are false, but that doesn't mean he is not pleased with every follower of those religions, because even if a person follows something that isn't 100% accurate, but he still does it in an attempt to do right, and to seek God's pleasure, then that's gotta count for something right?

Oh btw , yes I felt this to. undescribable. ALhamdoelillahi. Such a gift.

[Woodrow]

Hi all!

This thread is prompted by reading Ashley's account of what happened when she converted to Islam.

It made me realise that what she described was exactly how I felt when I became a Christian three years ago.
I remember feeling such joy and peace. I couldn't stop smiling to myself for days! :) I felt like belonging, like coming home.
The joy of walking with God has remained with me thoughout the years, as has the peace and tranquility I feel when I pray and worship him. :statisfie

It leaves me wondering how we may explain that people converting to different faiths can report the same spiritual experience?

Here are a few possible explanations I can think of:

• God reveals himself only to converts of one faith group, converts to other faiths are deceived
• God reveals himself to people of different faiths in the same way
• It is a psychological phenomenon, nothing else

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

I am aware that people will have very different views on this.
I would really appreciate it, if we could avoid any heated my-view-is-right-and-everybody-else-is-wrong debates.
Just expressing your personal view is be fine! :)

Peace.

I'm just going to express my thoughts on 3 things you said:

• God reveals himself only to converts of one faith group, converts to other faiths are deceived
• God reveals himself to people of different faiths in the same way
• It is a psychological phenomenon, nothing else

It is a psychological phenomenon, nothing else

A few years ago, I would have said that was it and that is all it is. I would have even given you a very convincing arguement as to how it could be explained in terms of systems and beliefs and how we are impacted when one of our hidden beliefs is exposed to our concious level. But, then I got to thinking. That would mean all humans have essentialy the same intellectual capacity, the same life exposures and the same cultural environment. That dosen't seem logical.

God reveals himself to people of different faiths in the same way

I would agree with that. There probably are some individual cases that for resons it would differ. But, I belive for the majority it is a true statement. I would say that to think different would mean that we all are not given equal chances, some people could have an edge given to them and others could be given total failure with no chance, I think that would eliminate personal responsibility.

God reveals himself only to converts of one faith group, converts to other faiths are deceived

No, but I believe there are people that had over active imaginations and believed they received a message, but in reality they are justifying what they want to be their belief.

I'm also convinced that we all have God (swt) revealed to us. Only problem is some people seem to think that is the all that is needed. End of the trip, just need to coast until the train stops. I believe it is only the begining of our journey and part of that journey will be an insatiable drive to learn all humanly possible about God(swt) and to explore all sources to gain a small insight into His (swt) full being.

[glo]

These are people who do not stress differences, but rather similarities, who think of God in a spiritual rather than a legalistic sense. I think thats so beautiful :).

Thanks for sharing that. KAding :)

Sometimes I think seeking for similarities with other people is the only way to peaceful living.
If I try hard enough I will find that I have things in common with everybody - no matter how different or strange they may see at first glance.

That doesn't mean we cannot and should not recognise our differences - as long as we learn to tolerate and respect them.

Peace.

[glo]

Ok my two cents:
Obviously this isn't an easy question to discuss interreligiously, because it's bound to end up in a I am right you are wrong discussion. But although my answer is somewhat among those lines, I hope you'll find it reasonable.
If Islam is right, that means christianity is not wrong, but rather deviated from it's true form. That means there's still a lot of good in it. And thus also a lot of "source" to feel good about. As for God, he might not be pleased with the way some religions are false, but that doesn't mean he is not pleased with every follower of those religions, because even if a person follows something that isn't 100% accurate, but he still does it in an attempt to do right, and to seek God's pleasure, then that's gotta count for something right?

Oh btw , yes I felt this to. undescribable. ALhamdoelillahi. Such a gift.

Thanks, Steve.

Your view makes sense in relation to the monotheistic religions, which have so much in common and worship the same God (the God of Abraham).

What about non-monotheistic religions, though?
Peace.

[glo]

I'm also convinced that we all have God (swt) revealed to us. Only problem is some people seem to think that is the all that is needed. End of the trip, just need to coast until the train stops. I believe it is only the begining of our journey and part of that journey will be an insatiable drive to learn all humanly possible about God(swt) and to explore all sources to gain a small insight into His (swt) full being.

Thank you for your wisdom and ever kind spirit, Woodrow! :)

[glo]

For the sake of interfaith tolerance, Steve's and Woodrow's responses are helpful.
But I would like to probe further.

Undeniably the Qu'ran warns us against believing that Jesus was anything more than a prophet and man!
Clearly the Bible warns us against false prophets who will come!

So ...

• If believing Jesus to be God was as grave a mistake and sin, as the Qu'ran tells us, why would God give me a 'feel-good' emotion when I follow that belief?
• If Muhammed's teachings were false, as the New testament warns us, why would God give Ashley a 'feel-good' emotion whe she follows that belief?

I'm not sure that I can reconcile the two. :rollseyes

Any comments and thoughts?

Peace. :)

[Woodrow]

For the sake of interfaith tolerance, Steve's and Woodrow's responses are helpful.
But I would like to probe further.

Undeniably the Qu'ran warns us against believing that Jesus was anything more than a prophet and man!
Clearly the Bible warns us against false prophets who will come!

So ...

• If believing Jesus to be God was as grave a mistake and sin, as the Qu'ran tells us, why would God give me a 'feel-good' emotion when I follow that belief?
• If Muhammed's teachings were false, as the New testament warns us, why would God give Ashley a 'feel-good' emotion whe she follows that belief?

I'm not sure that I can reconcile the two. :rollseyes

Any comments and thoughts?

Peace. :)

With religion a person who is truly seeking the truth will gain with each step and will experience joy with just the thought that they desire to know God(swt). Then with each step the person will gain more joy as they get closer. If you are planning a trip to see a long lost loved one. Dosen't each inch you walk bring joy? Even if you may have taken a detour on the trip.

[glo]

With religion a person who is truly seeking the truth will gain with each step and will experience joy with just the thought that they desire to know God(swt). Then with each step the person will gain more joy as they get closer. If you are planning a trip to see a long lost loved one. Dosen't each inch you walk bring joy? Even if you may have taken a detour on the trip.

Hhhhmm ... that looks like a sound reply.
I will think it over for a while, Woodrow.

peace. :)

[north_malaysian]

Yes, but it is discouraged and takes a long amount of time. The Torah gives seven commandments to gentiles and asks them to live righteous lives and they will go to heaven. So in essence there is not much of a point to convert unless you wish to marry a Jew or become part of the covenent the Jews made with G-d.

Jews love when people convert to a monotheistic faith because if the faith has in there 'holy book' the commandments that G-d gave for gentiles to follow then they are following the Torah basically without even realizing it.

As someone who own a master degree in Comparative Religions, other than Islam and Christianity.... did u ever examined other religious groups who have the 7 Laws elements too.... are there any religious group that you think fits in the 7 laws .... maybe religions like Baha'i Faith, Sikhism, Scientology, Cao Daism, MAndeanism, Zoroastrianism?

[snakelegs]

[*]God reveals himself to people of different faiths in the same way

well, i have never had a conversion experience but i feel strongly that it is this - (above)

If believing Jesus to be God was as grave a mistake and sin, as the Qu'ran tells us, why would God give me a 'feel-good' emotion when I follow that belief?
If Muhammed's teachings were false, as the New testament warns us, why would God give Ashley a 'feel-good' emotion whe she follows that belief?

well, i know christians and muslims will disagree with me but i believe both you and ashley had the "feel good" emotion because you both had genuine conversion experiences. i believe that god knows what is in a person's heart, regardless of the door an individual chooses to come close to god.
but what do i know? that's why i'm an agnostic. (we can get away with stuff like this).

[AvarAllahNoor]

Either that, or God must not be a God that cares about which of the religions is 'correct', but rather touches those people who lead rightous and spiritual life's, regardless of the specific rules all these different religions prescribe. A bit like a Sikh, or yes even a Jew, would describe it. These different religions are merely different paths to the same God and to salvation.

True, it's about having faith in that one supreme, and fighthing over which religion is best to God is pathetic, i'm sure he/she is up there laughing at how ludicrious we all are!

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

it is necessary, when seeking to reconcile Christian experience with Muslim experience, to utilise the teaching of Revelations

Through Revelations alone can also Judaism be reconciled with Islam in Isa; despite Jews who preach that such is not possible.

However, what I first undertook to post about here today (it is during Ramadan) is the fact of need to know what are the signs of a true Religious experience.

Modern society has no social category in which a person can report to a counsellor, for example, "oh this happened and then I felt like such and such; but my true fear was . . . " etc, when such experiences are within the definitions of truly Religious.

Usually what is happening is that there are a group of persons already converted whom assume that every other converts experience will be the same as their own. Or else a group of persons born into families with strong Religious practise, and another group of persons born into families without strong Religious practise. Usually that fact alone is held to be the determining fact of whether anybody is a true believer. Yet there are some of us born into families without strong, overtly structured, Religious practise; yet whom believe. We might join up with a Church for a while, but then drift out of communion with that bunch of folk again. Yet never doubting our own Faith.

In Islam the attending of Mosque is far more certainly held as a life long event; even when we might move away and no longer, or less often, attend.

Unfortunately for some folk whom experience a Religious awakening; if they have no Muslim context within which to obtain a solid scientific frame of reference for such; they are being instructed that their experience is insanity. This is an indictment of the failing of Christian Churches in many places, but not all of.

There is an American (born in Cekoslavakia) psychiatrist whom was experimented upon as a student pshychiatrist during the 1950's with hallucinagenic drugs. The earlies uses of LSD were upon psychiatric students; to evaluate whether the drug had any medicial uses. (that similar substances are found in some mushrooms and that some ancient cultures have contained Religious use of; may not have been overlooked) The psychiatrist is named Stanislav Grof; and while I am not in favour of most of the work he engages in (it is called holotropic breath work): to his merit he has made some inventories of the lists of psychiatric symptoms and divided them into different sets. One set is of symptoms which are in different cultures and historical periods, recognised as signs of a Religious experience. Another set is that set which indicates that there is potential danger to the patient if they are lead to believe that they are experiencing anything real. Then the third set is all the other symptoms, neither dangerous in a relative sense, nor real, and this is the mainstay of symptoms of minor psychiatric disturbances. What is significant in these lists is that there are today in the Australian mental health system persons whom have only ever displayed symptoms which can be accorded the first category. Yet without the framework of Religious instruction, neither they nor the psychiatric health professionals can comprehend the situation. What is worst is that most often, among all persons whom experience such without an Islamic context, it is those whom seek to evaluate the experience scientifically whom are being branded as insane. Yet also it is those whom seek only an immediate validation of the experience whom are being lead astray into false belief systems. It seems in fact that Stanislav Grof's work was so lead astray.

Regardless of all that: the fact of the matter is that our cultures need to relearn to properly evaluate our Human experience for its true worth. The experience of remembering that you truly always are believing in essence, has many different forms, all of which deserve honour.

wasalam