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ManchesterFolk
08-24-2006, 08:12 PM
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Islamic leaders in Mogadishu gave a woman 11 lashes for selling cannabis Thursday, the first female to receive such punishment since the fundamentalist rulers took over the capital in June.

The woman, who throughout the beating insisted she was innocent, was flogged alongside five other men at the Yassin Square in Mogadishu in front of several hundred people. The small bundle of cannabis, worth around $1 on the streets in the capital, was burned before the crowd.
"The reason we punished them was that we want to stop people selling and using drugs," said a local security official, Sheik Omar Hussein. "We believe as Islamists that people should stay away from drugs."

The imposition of strict religious rule has sparked fears of an emerging, Taliban-style regime. The United States accuses Somalia's Islamic leaders of harboring al Qaeda leaders responsible for deadly bombings at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998.

Somalia has not had a police force or judiciary for 16 years since the warlords overthrew longtime dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991 and then turned on each other, carving much of the country into armed camps ruled by violence and clan law.

The Islamic leaders stepped into the vacuum in Mogadishu and most of southern Somalia, projecting themselves as a source of stability.
Late Tuesday, Islamic militiamen raided a makeshift video hall in Mogadishu, beating up viewers watching an Indian film. Like the Taliban, members of the group appear to see any secular entertainment as un-Islamic.
Somalia has a weak transitional government set up two years ago with U.N.-backing, but it has been unable to assert its authority beyond Baidoa, 150 miles (240 kilometers) northwest of Mogadishu, and could only watch helplessly as Islamic militants seized the capital in June.

CNN.com
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Keltoi
08-25-2006, 02:02 AM
I was afraid this would be the outcome in Somalia. It does sound like another Taliban style regime, if you could even call it a "regime". Just one more troubled region in an area of troubled regions.
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ManchesterFolk
08-25-2006, 03:34 AM
"True Justice" by the Somali Islamic Militia... :uhwhat
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Woodrow
08-25-2006, 03:49 AM
I wonder how many prisoners in US jails serving a year or more for selling cannabis, would have rather had 11 lashes instead of jail time. Perhaps some times cruel punishment is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not advocating public floggings, but I often wonder if maybe our punishments may be kinder in writing but crueler in effect. A year in jail affects a mans earning and deprives a family of a bread winner. 11 lashes most likely only affects the culprit.
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ManchesterFolk
08-25-2006, 03:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I wonder how many prisoners in US jails serving a year or more for selling cannabis, would have rather had 11 lashes instead of jail time. Perhaps some times cruel punishment is in the eye of the beholder.
How many of the people in US jails were selling pot? Now tell em how many were most likley dangerous and ready to kill mass amounts of innocent...

Or do you go by the theory that western countries just jail Muslims because they feel like it? :uhwhat

Come one, Woodrow, you can't use that example here. The lady was selling some pot. Did not deserve lashings especially in PUBLIC!
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Dahir
08-25-2006, 03:57 AM
I have to give this one to Woodrow, that's excellent reasoning.

Not to mention that the courts don't have any money for fancy jails and the like.
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ManchesterFolk
08-25-2006, 04:02 AM
Not to mention that the courts don't have any money for fancy jails and the like.
So you whip them in public instead? Is that justice to you? Maybe if you were the one being whipped in an unstabalized country, you would see thins different. Maybe Just Maybe.
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Woodrow
08-25-2006, 04:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
How many of the people in US jails were selling pot? Now tell em how many were most likley dangerous and ready to kill mass amounts of innocent...

Or do you go by the theory that western countries just jail Muslims because they feel like it? :uhwhat

Come one, Woodrow, you can't use that example here. The lady was selling some pot. Did not deserve lashings especially in PUBLIC!
First no where did I say she deserved the lashings or that I advocate lashings.

What is the comment about western countries only jail Muslims, please quote where I said that.

How many people in US jails are arrested for selling Pot. Here in Texas they account for nearly 50% of the jail population. (Pssibly more, note I said Jail, not prison)

What did any of my comment have to do with this:

Now tell em how many were most likley dangerous and ready to kill mass amounts of innocent...
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ManchesterFolk
08-25-2006, 04:07 AM
I'm just trying to tell you that to me a comparison of someone selling weed, and a terrorist, is a big difference.
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Woodrow
08-25-2006, 04:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
How many of the people in US jails were selling pot? Now tell em how many were most likley dangerous and ready to kill mass amounts of innocent...

Or do you go by the theory that western countries just jail Muslims because they feel like it? :uhwhat

Come one, Woodrow, you can't use that example here. The lady was selling some pot. Did not deserve lashings especially in PUBLIC!
Better yet, how does any of what you just said relate to what I said:

I wonder how many prisoners in US jails serving a year or more for selling cannabis, would have rather had 11 lashes instead of jail time. Perhaps some times cruel punishment is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not advocating public floggings, but I often wonder if maybe our punishments may be kinder in writing but crueler in effect. A year in jail affects a mans earning and deprives a family of a bread winner. 11 lashes most likely only affects the culprit.
__________________
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Woodrow
08-25-2006, 04:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
I'm just trying to tell you that to me a comparison of someone selling weed, and a terrorist, is a big difference.
How on earth does this have anything to do with terrorists?
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Joe98
08-25-2006, 04:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
....11 lashes.......to receive such punishment…….

Where is this punishment written?

Is it in a statute somewhere?

-
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Woodrow
08-25-2006, 05:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
Where is this punishment written?

Is it in a statute somewhere?

-
In my opinion this is just something the locals decided on. I have no idea how or why they came up with the 11 lashes. But, from I see the militants most likely have no facilities for incarceration or many other options so what we see is probably the culmination of several sources. I wont deny that they may be using some sharia law as a basis, but to me it seems more like a local punishment.

keep this in mind before we judge too harshly:

Somalia has not had a police force or judiciary for 16 years since the warlords overthrew longtime dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991 and then turned on each other, carving much of the country into armed camps ruled by violence and clan law
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Tania
08-25-2006, 05:13 AM
If for 1 dollar drug she took 11 lashes for 5 dollars drug her punishment would be increased? like to 55? or would be the same 11 lashes?
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manaal
08-25-2006, 05:23 AM
Why does everyone make such a fuss when Muslim leaders make such decsions? Just because someone is not afraid to follow the shariah they are labelled as "fundamentalists" as if its equal to "terrorism"............

ALL MUSLIMS who care about following the BASIC PRINCIPALS OF ISLAM are FUNDAMENTALISTS.

The same goes to anyone, belonging to any religion who set up their life according to the foundations of their religion.
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AHMED_GUREY
08-25-2006, 12:11 PM
funny how the world suddenly cares about somali women

they were silent for the last 16 years
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Joe98
08-25-2006, 12:55 PM
Billl Clinton tried to help in 1993.

How do you count 16 years?
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 01:22 PM
:sl:

LOL, I find it funny how people critise islamic law, when the Western Justice is a complete joke!
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AvarAllahNoor
08-25-2006, 01:28 PM
If it works as a deterrent, then why not! At least people may learn from their mistake. One wishes!
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 01:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
If it works as a deterrent, then why not! At least people may learn from their msitake. One wishes!
:sl:

Exactly! The Yobs running around terrorising people don't fear prison, it has the opposite effect on them.
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AvarAllahNoor
08-25-2006, 01:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Exactly! The Yobs running around terrorising people don't fear prison, it has the opposite effect on them.
Perhaps they should have flogging in the UK, we sure can do with some empty jail cells!


*Gets whip out*
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 01:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Perhaps they should have flogging in the UK, we sure can do with some empty jail cells!


*Gets whip out*
:sl:

Fear is an excellent solution to beating crime, the police can't beat criminals beacuse they're a soft touch, I say become harsher and watch the crime levels drop.
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AvarAllahNoor
08-25-2006, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Fear is an excellent solution to beating crime, the police can't beat criminals beacuse they're a soft touch, I say become harsher and watch the crime levels drop.
I'm with you on that brother - An American sheriff was over here from the states, and he practically lughed at the British jails. He said we were 'too easy on the criminals' he said they should see how he ran his in!
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Keltoi
08-25-2006, 02:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I'm with you on that brother - An American sheriff was over here from the states, and he practically lughed at the British jails. He said we were 'too easy on the criminals' he said they should see how he ran his in!
Is this the New Mexico or Arizona(can't remember which state) sheriff that puts prisoners in tents in the desert and makes them work for their little sandwiches?
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 02:25 PM
:sl:

I suggest if the west isn't gonna adapt sharia ppunishments then they should at least lock these people up on their own for 24 hours a day, I find it funny how prisoners are allowed to socialise and form gangs this isn't a holiday camp, many of the drug dealser, rapists are still commiting the crimes they went in for in prison isn't that ironic!
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I wonder how many prisoners in US jails serving a year or more for selling cannabis, would have rather had 11 lashes instead of jail time. Perhaps some times cruel punishment is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not advocating public floggings, but I often wonder if maybe our punishments may be kinder in writing but crueler in effect. A year in jail affects a mans earning and deprives a family of a bread winner. 11 lashes most likely only affects the culprit.
You are most likely to get probation here for selling pot up to 1 lb. More then that then you are considered a trafficer and is punished more harshly. I know people here that have been busted multiple times and have recieved no jail time.
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*Hana*
08-25-2006, 02:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
So you whip them in public instead? Is that justice to you? Maybe if you were the one being whipped in an unstabalized country, you would see thins different. Maybe Just Maybe.
Maybe if it were your child buying pot you would think differently. I guarantee you, if I found someone selling pot to my son, they better hope the police get them before I do! Maybe if we weren't so lax in our punishments we wouldn't have the serious drug problems we have today.

Do you realize how many children are sold pot that is laced with something far more deadly to get them hooked so they can buy more??

Public lashing...no problem. You know the consequences before you do the crime, don't whine about it AFTER you're caught!

BTW...this was my opinion long before I was Muslim and it has nothing to do with my faith.

Peace,
Hana
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 03:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
Maybe if it were your child buying pot you would think differently. I guarantee you, if I found someone selling pot to my son, they better hope the police get them before I do! Maybe if we weren't so lax in our punishments we wouldn't have the serious drug problems we have today.

Do you realize how many children are sold pot that is laced with something far more deadly to get them hooked so they can buy more??

Public lashing...no problem. You know the consequences before you do the crime, don't whine about it AFTER you're caught!

BTW...this was my opinion long before I was Muslim and it has nothing to do with my faith.

Peace,
Hana
Have you ever smoked pot? Has anyone here smoked pot? You can do more damage taking too many aspirin than you can do smoking pot.
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:16 PM
Have you ever smoked pot? Has anyone here smoked pot? You can do more damage taking too many aspirin than you can do smoking pot.
Looks like you smoke pot often :D
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:17 PM
Everybody know that the justice system in America works lol.

No wonder why America is top 5 in rape and homicide.
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Everybody know that the justice system in America works lol.

No wonder why America is top 5 in rape and homicide.
That's because in most muslim countries it isn't reported.
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 03:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Looks like you smoke pot often :D
I haven't smoked pot in almost 9 years but yes I did smoke it and no not often.
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 03:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
That's because in most muslim countries it isn't reported.
:sl:

Or maybe due to faith the majority of people don't behave like animals :)
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:27 PM
Or maybe due to faith the majority of people don't behave like animalsp
Agreed.
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:28 PM
That's because in most muslim countries it isn't reported.
I'll consider it a lie unless proven otherwise. People fear the consequence of crime and thus they behave civilized.
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 03:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
I'll consider it a lie unless proven otherwise. People fear the consequence of crime and thus they behave civilized.
And yet people commit crimes veryday throughout the muslim world. If they didn't why have courts?
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:31 PM
Or maybe because you treat your women like animals therefore raping her would be seen as a nonevent.
Interesting, since America is top 5 for rape. Women in America are treated like pieces of meat/sex toys.
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:32 PM
And yet people commit crimes veryday throughout the muslim world. If they didn't why have courts?
Is that your evidence to back up that crimes are underreported? LOL

They have courts, but crimes rates are much lower than Western societies.
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 03:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Or maybe because you treat your women like animals therefore raping her would be seen as a nonevent.
:sl:

Huh? Think you've had a few too many visits to the zoo my friend, women in islam are treated with respect only due to ignoring these rules due you get abuse, and why are you getting all defensive.
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AvarAllahNoor
08-25-2006, 03:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Is this the New Mexico or Arizona(can't remember which state) sheriff that puts prisoners in tents in the desert and makes them work for their little sandwiches?
Was he fat? (not that it narrows it down) But i think it may be. Imagine the UK criminals in the desert, they'd expect an X-box and the internet facilities!
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AvarAllahNoor
08-25-2006, 03:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku

BTW...this was my opinion long before I was Muslim and it has nothing to do with my faith.

Peace,
Hana
At least i can't be accused of that ;D
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sonz
08-25-2006, 03:40 PM
Islamic Criminal Law

It is unfortunate that the Common Law system used in many Muslim countries has made such a great impact on the minds of even Muslim lawyers and Scholars that, they too criticise Shariah as a 'harsh and brutal' legal system. It will take a long time to remove this impression from the minds of Western educated Muslim scholars. The non Muslims, on their part, have not been given an opportunity to understand the Islamic, Legal System. The result is the vicious campaign against Shariah. The most forceful part of the criticism is the West's denunciation of the harshness of the Hadd punishments provided by the Shariah. Obviously this stems from their self-styled conception of human dignity which evokes unnecessary sympathy for criminals too. For a moment, the Western sociologist forgets the heinous deeds of the criminals, their impact on the society and prescribes lighter punishments with all politeness. Contrary to it, Islam imposes a rigid code of punishment for the microscopic minority of criminals and ensures an atmosphere of peace and security for the rest of the society. If this basic difference is kept in mind while striking a comparison between the two, the whole matter can be understood easily.

Crimes and punishments have their own long history behind them. From inhuman punishments of the monarchical past to the soft policy of the present-day democratic age, the punishments have been showing an upward trend. This is how the so-called humanising process has yielded results. The spurt in crimes following the economic boom in the West has brought its own strange interpretation from the Western sociologists, who, till only a few days back were ascribing unsatisfactory economic and social conditions to the increasing criminal mentality. The very sociologist now harps a different tune. He unabashedly calls the criminal mentality an essential element of human nature. This clear succumbing to the situation has come as a result of the West's failure to dam the advancing wave of crimes. More sorrowfully the West has committed the folly of taking a few retrograde steps, so to say, to improve the situation merely on the paper. This has been done in order to cut down the burden on national exchequer; which has been claiming an increasingly bigger slice of the financial cake for the maintenance of Police, Jails, and Courts. This foolish tampering with the situation has been affected mindless of the future repercussions by de-listing a few crimes.

For example, Norway and Sweden have stolen the march by legalising homosexuality and lesbianism. West Germany and almost all the Scandinavian countries have respectively lifted the ban on import and circulation of pornographic literature. England and Italy have allowed abortions (either for a mother or spinster). The fresh blow to the existing ethical values has come from Spain where, according to an approved bill of cabinet, adultery will no longer be a crime. In sharp contrast to this situation, the Islamic world presents a peaceful and much cleaner society. When we cast a glance at the Muslim countries where Shariah is applied, crime rate has become negligible to the extent that Saudi Arabia reported just one murder in one year. This can wholly be attributed to the deterrent punishments of Islam. Turning a blind eye to these facts, the West is solely guided in its criticism by the superficial understanding of Islamic code.

Primarily, the emphasis of Islamic code is on preventing the crimes by prescribing harsh punishments while contemporary code deals with a criminal individually. The treatment thus meted out does not consider the impact of the crime and its aftermath but simply suggests a punishment to be awarded to criminal.

The detailed study of the Shariah penal system reveals a few more salient features of it which are unique in their character and kind. One can find blessings of the Shariah while glancing through the pages of history. A few basic qualities of Islamic system shows the marked difference from the European legal system.

In order to avoid any discrimination between rich and poor, Shariah enjoins similar treatment to all in the event, of crimes of social and moral nature. Islam does not prescribe monetary fines or penalties. Had this been the case, the wealthy people would have easily got rid of punishments after paying the required sum as fine. It could have promoted criminal mentality among wealthy sections of the society. This equality before the law in Islam has deterred even the rich people to indulge in crimes. Western society today suffers from the same deficiency. The provisions of their legal system have given the rich society a license for crimes.

Another disapproved form of punishment is imprisonment. It isolates the offender from the society and does not arouse in him a feeling of shame or repentance. Contrary to this, the modern prisons have served as a rendezvous for all sorts of criminals. After their release an offender is found to be far more skilled in his art.

Punishments like amputation of hand, whipping, stoning to death and beheading have the dual impact of preventing the individual from committing the same crime in future and serving a stern warning to others. Treatment meted out to an ex-convict plays the greatest role in rehabilitating him. West's scornful attitude towards an ex-convict has resisted his return towards a dignified life. One's conviction in life should not become a stigma to his name. He should be allowed to lead a normal life. Constitutions of the modern democracies contain clauses which disqualify an ex-convict from contesting for seats in legislature, holding key positions in administration, and public offices.

Islamic Penal Code sternly prohibits this dual disability for an ex-convict. Once the official punishment ends, the convict is a dignified citizen of the state enjoying civil rights in its totality. He need not carry any appendage of conviction with his name. No hurdles would be placed in his economic or social progress on the basis of his conviction. A return to the normal life is thus facilitated by the whole society and state under Shariah. The Prophet strictly admonished his friends from giving any bad names to Ma'izz Bin Aslami and Ghamiddiya, two sahabi who, out of fear of punishments in the life hereafter, self-confessed the sin of adultery and wore stoned to death. The Prophet called their confession as the most courageous and noblest act. This is how Islam refines the society. If you assure the criminals of a respectful place in society, there is no reason for them to hesitate from turning a new leaf in their lives. In most cases, it is fear of contemptuous treatment by society that deters the convict from becoming a normal citizen. Shariah adopts a realistic and practical attitude towards life. In life, one cannot depend too much on the moral and spiritual qualities of good individuals. If all men were equally spiritual, and if all could fear Allah, then there would be no need of law. But most men are not afraid of Allah so much as they are afraid of their society, public opinion and the punishment for evil-doing which they receive from the court of law. Therefore, the fear of Allah is and will remain confined to a few persons. Most men will continue to avoid committing any crime not from the fear of Allah and the Day of Judgment but from the fear of men and the fear of punishment by the authority. Since the Shariah seeks to build society and a political community, it has to take account of all kinds of men, good or bad, virtuous or vicious.

For men fearing Allah, it inculcates love and charity and holds out the promise of reward in the hereafter, but for the greater number of people in whom the fear of Allah is not very strong, it prescribes laws. and lays down punishments. Thus it makes use of both moral and legal sanctions because it realises that both morality and law are necessary for political and social life.

It is merely an allegation that harsh Islamic laws would convert the society into a den of crippled and indolent persons. It is mainly due to the partial understanding of the Islamic System. Islam solves the social and economic problems of a man on a priority basis so that one should not be stimulated to commit crimes due to social and economic injustices. Secondly, the Islamic punitive measures are implemented through a gradual process. With the advent of the Prophet and his party at Medina, the Islamic Penal Code was not suddenly clamped over the city. Had it been the 'case the results would have been the same what critics allege.

The Prophet enforced the Islamic order in 10 years of time after due training and education of masses. The Qur’an, itself imposed total prohibition in three phases. Crime detection has also its own effect on criminal psychology. Islam has a distinctive advance here too over its Western counterparts, Mere suspicion is no ground for punishing a criminal until crime is reported through a reliable source by the prescribed number of
witnesses. In the event of a person being apprehended on inadequate evidence and, later on, the charges having been proved false the integrity of that individual would be impaired. The present codes do not guarantee such safeguards. An individual may be acquitted. after a lengthy process of humiliations. This generates an atmosphere of suspicion where every individual lives as a suspect. Similarly, Islam prohibits ‘crime digging’.

These are a few virtues of Islamic Penal Code. In the light of these, the Prophet said that a time would come when one will traverse the distance between Yemen and Hadrmaut, without any danger to his life and property.

This came out true in the later years when Islam conquered the whole area. Its impact may still be seen in countries where Islamic law is even partially in force. In the so called highly advanced countries like the United States of America, it is dangerous even to move out of one's residence after it is dark.

The high rate of crimes in Western countries can be imagined from the following figures:



More interesting is the way the criminologists attribute reasons of spurt in crimes and suggest measures to check the rate. A study of recent crime report from France will reveal the approach the Westerners now adopt to tackle the grim situation, prevailing in western countries.

A ten member committee headed by the Minister of Justice, M. Alain Peyreffite indicated that according to 80% of the French people the violence has been mounting. The committee came out with more disturbing statistics. Between 1967 and 1976 armed robberies against other institutions (called hold-ups) increased twenty fold. The murder rate in France remained below one per cent per 100,000 inhabitants compared with approximately 10 in one hundred thousand in the United States.

The report attributes the growth of criminal acts to urbanisation. It says 60% of violent crimes occur in Paris and five other large urban centres and calls for a return to smaller, more cohesive communities. The conclusion is reached that cities must not be allowed to surpass a population of 200,000 if they have yet not attained it. The committee says, it had formed a link between rising crimes and the height of apartment buildings and notes that housing projects with 1,000 units of six storey have one third fewer criminal incidents than a 1,000 unit project that was higher than six stories. The report also contends that the long distance between homes and places of employment foments a sense of alienation that contributes to crimes.

Punishment and Legal Penalties:

Legal penalties are specified in the Qur’anic Text for: (a) Murder, (b) Theft, (c) Adultery, (d) Cluminous accusation of adultery, and (e) Offence against public security. No apology is needed for death being the Islamic penalty for premeditated murder, its very severity makes the punishment a deterrent, especially if one considers how simple and expeditious judicial machinery is in Islam and how rapid the procedure and beneficial its effects for social tranquillity and the protection of human lives.

Theft, except for the doubtful cases, for example stealing prompted by starvation, its punishment is amputation of the hand. Stealing is too frequently perpetrated by force and often entails murder of the victim. One wonders whether, in such case is it is better to have more pity on the hand of the thief than on the life of the victim.

Punishment for Adultery:

The penalty for adultery for a married person is stoning to death, (to be witnessed by a crowd of people) but there are very strict injunctions regarding the proof. The offence must be testified to by four witnesses of unimpeachable veracity. And, if a person levels a charge of adultery against someone and is unable to bring four such witnesses, he is liable to be punished with, eighty strokes of the whip. By enjoining such punishment, Islam has prevented dislocation of the family, and confusion with regard to paternity. More important it establishes the basis for a peaceful life in human society. Peace at this price is not at all costly compared to modern measures introduced and expenses incurred for a peaceful life but it is no where to be found because the murderers, the thieves, the fornicators and others get away too easily. They are a constant source of fear and disturbance because of the potential threat to life and property. The Shariah provision nips the evil in the bud with a firm hand and puts down its foot strongly to stop mischief and to ensure peace to the society. Islamic punishments are, therefore, the most suited to bring about peace and peaceful conditions. Islam deals with the culprit rather heavily in the interest of his would-be victims.

http://www.islamherald.com/asp/explo...iminal_law.asp
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Woodrow
08-25-2006, 03:41 PM
I think we got a little off topic. One point to keep in mind . The incident of rape is low among Muslims. And remember 85% of the worlds Muslims do not live in Islamic countries. I am reasonably certain that if a Muslim were to commit rape in a country under secular law, it would be highly publicized. Most of us do live in countries that are under secular law. There are nearly 5 million of us here in the US.
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AvarAllahNoor
08-25-2006, 03:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Interesting, since America is top 5 for rape. Women in America are treated like pieces of meat/sex toys.
That may be true to an extent, but a majority of women dress in such a manner that you'd only see it as one thing. You can't blame it all on men.
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:42 PM
There are nearly 5 million of us here in the US.
That is still less than 2% of the population.
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 03:51 PM
I wonder what was your source? LOL
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 03:53 PM
:sl:

LOL!!!!!! Your funny, is this is best you can come up with, see this is were islam shows it's practicality it clearly caters for every situation, if you read what you just posted it clearly says when the situation is servere and they're precautions to be taken before.
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 03:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
That is still less than 2% of the population.
Did you know in Denmark and Scandinavia that 75% of all rape cases are committed by muslims? That in Australia they are having the same problem with the Lebanese population?
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 03:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

LOL!!!!!! Your funny, is this is best you can come up with, see this is were islam shows it's practicality it clearly caters for every situation, if you read what you just posted it clearly says when the situation is servere and they're precautions to be taken before.
So you are saying there are situations where it's ok to beat your wife?
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S_87
08-25-2006, 03:57 PM
:sl:

Alhumdulillah.
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 04:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
So you are saying there are situations where it's ok to beat your wife?
:sl:

Yes they're is, the beating which is allowed can't leave any brusing so nothing to extreme, but let me ask you this are you gonna sit there and say within a marriage tempares might flare and things might not get out of hand, this just proves to me the truth of islam it's clearly guidence.
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sonz
08-25-2006, 04:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Did you know in Denmark and Scandinavia that 75% of all rape cases are committed by muslims? That in Australia they are having the same problem with the Lebanese population?
geronimo why ru lying and copying lies from anti islamic sites?

THE POLICE NEVER PUT RELIGION in STATISTICS so could you please tell me where u got the "commited by muslims" from

the police said 60% r commited by ETHNIC minorities

ur hatred for islam makes u lie about islam.
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Geronimo
08-25-2006, 04:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Yes they're is, the beating which is allowed can't leave any brusing so nothing to extreme, but let me ask you this are you gonna sit there and say within a marriage tempares might flare and things might not get out of hand, this just proves to me the truth of islam it's clearly guidence.
Under no circumstances unless your life is threatened should you hit a woman. Period. End of discussion. I would beat the hell of anyone that would even think of laying a hand on a woman. This person is not a man. He doesn't even deserve to be called an animal. He should have his gentials ripped off and his seed wiped from the earth. And I mean that in the nicest way.
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QuranStudy
08-25-2006, 04:11 PM
Under no circumstances unless your life is threatened should you hit a woman. Period. End of discussion.
Under no circumstances should one support homosexuality :D
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Under no circumstances unless your life is threatened should you hit a woman. Period. End of discussion. I would beat the hell of anyone that would even think of laying a hand on a woman. This person is not a man. He doesn't even deserve to be called an animal. He should have his gentials ripped off and his seed wiped from the earth. And I mean that in the nicest way.
:sl:

I have no problem with hitting a women if she deserves it, sadly women have realised many men think like you and behave like they want, just look at some young girls today giving attitude to random guys knowing full well they won't react, I'm all for equality.
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sonz
08-25-2006, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Under no circumstances unless your life is threatened should you hit a woman. Period. End of discussion. I would beat the hell of anyone that would even think of laying a hand on a woman. This person is not a man. He doesn't even deserve to be called an animal. He should have his gentials ripped off and his seed wiped from the earth. And I mean that in the nicest way.
dont go offtopic

islam never said that we should beat our wives.

ur on islamic forum, flipping read all the topics thats been discussed about this instead of going 24/7 to the world affairs forum. uve been here for 2 months and yet u dont know anything about islam
Reply

Noor
08-25-2006, 04:35 PM
AsalamuAlaikum

Note to members: Stay on Topic!

Vacationing in Somalia, I would like to believe that I have the experience of seeing my people live in action rather than read it somewhere. For those of you who are unaware of Somalia/Somaliland, it is time that you understand that there is an extreme crisis in that region. These people have been exposed to so many negative elements that one shouldnt be surprised to hear something of a violent nature to be reported.

Those individuals who so happen to be in control in southern Somalia probably don't have that right islamic knowlegde. Just like the Taliban which was formed by men who were active in war and witnessed immeasurable amount of bloodshed, I fear that another group will be formed to abuse women all for the sake of their distorted image of Islam.

I pray that one day Somalia can be restorted and most importantly that the government practises the truth in which Islam is based on.

With Peace
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wilberhum
08-25-2006, 05:09 PM
Deep down I kept thinking, “The Taliban is coming”, “The Taliban is coming”.

I just hope they get the government they want and after it is all settled, I hope they want the government they get. What ever that government be.
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Muezzin
08-25-2006, 05:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Deep down I kept thinking, “The Taliban is coming”, “The Taliban is coming”.

I just hope they get the government they want and after it is all settled, I hope they want the government they get. What ever that government be.
Who wants the Government they get? Democracy gives us the right to complain, and by God somebody will! :p

I'm just playing, I understand you're being positive. I agree with you.

I also hope that if the people do in fact end up wanting a Government that is like the Taliban, that other nations do not interfere with them.

Note to silly people: I am not anti-democratic.
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syilla
08-25-2006, 05:20 PM
:sl:

In Malaysia you'll get death penalty...

:w:
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Keltoi
08-25-2006, 05:53 PM
I've been think about the statement I read earlier to the effect that a public lashing is better than 5 years in a prison. I can't argue with that logic. If I was given the choice between 5 years in prison and I public lashing I don't think I would have to consider it very long. It is obvious that long prison terms hasn't stopped the drug problem in the U.S., so if this action serves that purpose, without public execution, then more power to them.
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Somalina
08-25-2006, 06:19 PM
ASC

Great news indeed,may Allah(SWT) guide us to practice Islam .If the islamic courts keep up,I'll be visiting my lovely Ayeeyo and Goats:D inshallah.Planes are flooding somali airports,somalis will one day go back home,like bosnians,afghans,:happy:
am i the only one who read the *Alongside 5 men*LoL,poor men did they not feel ashamed:? too

the west cares about Women Only^o) ,

The Taliban Regime was Misrepresented,women DID learn in their homes,e.t.c

ViVa Islam ViVa Somalia
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*Hana*
08-25-2006, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
Have you ever smoked pot? Has anyone here smoked pot? You can do more damage taking too many aspirin than you can do smoking pot.
Is aspirin an illegal substance? Pot is an illegal substance and there are consequences to the purchase and sale of such substance. Whether you, me or most of the members have smoked it or smoke it doesn't make it any less illegal!!!

There are consequences to the buying and selling of drugs. Don't whine about the punishment when you knew what would happen BEFORE getting involved.

I did have a friend that died from smoking "a little pot". Unfortunately the seller decided it was a good idea to lace it causing the boy's death. What do you think would be a fitting punishment? Consider for a moment this was YOUR son. For me, 11 lashes in a public place would be too good for him!!! We need stricter laws and those willing to enforce them. All you have to do is check the stats to know "slaps on the wrist don't act as much of a deterrant."

Hana
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Durrah
08-25-2006, 09:53 PM
:sl:

Being of somali orgin myself and having visted the country, i think theres some points which werent orginally mentioned in the article, which doesnt give the full picture of the situation over there.


Khat (which is the name of the drug) is THE biggest social ill in somalia. One who has connection with the somali community, somalis and whatnot will know this right away. Its practially intoxicated the country and the number of addicts is incrediably high and addicts spend their megre income on that drug rather then feed their family! . And many will steal, beg on the streets just to get their next fix. I have witnessed this many times (first and second hand).

Also, the biggest khat dealers tend to have links with criminal warlords, who profit from it massively and use the money to fund activities.

Most somalis know what Khat has done to our people and many will agree that the supply and distribution of khat needs to be stopped indefinatly. Its hard for outsiders to imagine and will sit there and comment on how its only 'soft' drugs and how its minor, but for us its not. The affects of Khat on the community and country are like the effects of herion (whilst the physical symptons are different, the social problems that areise are very simalar) and i can't imagine anyone accepting herion, knowing all is ills and problems that it causes and would fully support their goverment in taking a harsh stance against dealers, suppliers etc, so i dont see why people why our country should be any different.


Regarding this case itself, i have a problem with. I dont think they should have lashed the woman, and i'll tell you why, its because this was probably her only method of income and a way of feeding her family. Many women in somalia have been forced due to their poverty, to sell this drug on the streets and as unfortantly many of our menfolk are either drugged up, dead or unemployed. If our men did their jobs, stopped taking khat, then maybe they'd be able to try and work and our women folk wouldnt have to reduce themselves to doing this. But the story is always the same and unfortanly many women have no choice but to rely on themselves to get food on the table.

If the ICU wanted to lash anyone, it should be the big khat dealers and suppliers who are making millions every years. They're the ones living in the big mansions in Hargesia, Burco, Xamar, driving the nice cars and have their fancy homes aborad. They are the ones making the killer profits and exporting the Khat from Ethopia and Kenya! They need to shut down the infostructure and punish the major dealers/suppliers/exporters and not penalise the poor women, men and children who have no option but to earn a living somehow. I strongly oppose khat, but i wonder how many of us, living in destute and abject poverty would sell khat if it meant you could buy water and some food so your family dont die! Im not saying its right, but the ICU need to tackle the issue from the very top and not from the bottom, because its the elite and wealthy individuals who are expoliting the poorer people! We can't afford to run for quick fixes!

Its all fine and dandy for the ICU to lash the women, but thats not going to stop the selling and distrubiton of it, if the onwers and major suppliers are not being stopped.

Also, the ICU need to start finding ways of economically lifting our people out of poverty. 95-98% of the people are living in harsh conditons, incrediably acute poverty, are striken with famine, illness etc.. So far, all they have been doing is handing down religous regulations and punishments but have done nothing on helping the country economy and finding ways of helping our nation use its resources to uplift itself from its condition. We have the largest coastline in the whole of africa and have an abudent of seafood in the sea, which if our leaders took notice of, they could start to protect our shores and start up the fishing industry and start exporting our fish. Currently, the japaease, the danish and some other nations are on our shores and waters, illegially poaching our products for nothing. If they got together and tried to do something with the coastline, which was once a bustling area, then inshallah some much needed finances and jobs could be found.

We also have oil and petrol in our mountains and earth and again if we made deals with other countries, inshallah we could start to use our natural resources to benifit the country and the people!

If such things could be done, then maybe our men and women would have halal jobs to do and wouldnt be reduced to supplying Khat as a method of living.
Reply

Keltoi
08-25-2006, 09:56 PM
Interesting views on the matter. Glad that someone of Somali origin posted on this thread.
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 10:00 PM
:sl:

Also, the ICU need to start finding ways of economically lifting our people out of poverty. 95-98% of the people are living in harsh conditons, incrediably acute poverty, are striken with famine, illness etc.. So far, all they have been doing is handing down religous regulations and punishments but have done nothing on helping the country economy and finding ways of helping our nation use its resources to uplift itself from its condition. We have the largest coastline in the whole of africa and have an abudent of seafood in the sea, which if our leaders took notice of, they could start to protect our shores and start up the fishing industry and start exporting our fish. Currently, the japaease, the danish and some other nations are on our shores and waters, illegially poaching our products for nothing. If they got together and tried to do something with the coastline, which was once a bustling area, then inshallah some much needed finances and jobs could be found.
I'm also from somalia, Firstly this isn't a fair statment we can't put the pressure on these guys to fix all the countries problems economicly this is something the whole nation will need to help out with, but I applaud them for taking certain actions.
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Durrah
08-25-2006, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

I'm also from somalia, Firstly this isn't a fair statment we can't put the pressure on these guys to fix all the countries problems economicly this is something the whole nation will need to help out with, but I applaud them for taking certain actions.

:sl:

Brother, what will punishing this women do, if the men who bring the khat into the country are not being tackled first hand. They are the ones who need the public lashing. Infact i would go as far to say that they deserve death sentaces, because they are knowly flooding somalia with the khat and then walking away with millions, HUNDREDS of millions each year from profits. They are helping to destruct our people and our country.

The ICU are targeting the weak and poor, who are pretty defenceless. They need get tough and deal with the main offenders and thats the main suppliers and dealers and start bringing them down first. If the khat infostructure is not destroyed and stopped, then khat will continue to be sold, regardless of some lashings.

as for the econmony, im not saying that its something that will change overnight, but i havent heard any plans from the ICU on that front. Its being one ruling and punishment after another and they are ignoring the real plights of the people. Its not enough to have a few long beared sheiks running the country. Islam is a compleate way of life and deals with every aspect. We need economists, engineers, doctors and skilled people to help bring some ideas forward that can be practially applied and acted upon.
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Ghazi
08-25-2006, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
:sl:

Brother, what will punishing this women do, if the men who bring the khat into the country are not being tackled first hand. They are the ones who need the public lashing. Infact i would go as far to say that they deserve death sentaces, because they are knowly flooding somalia with the khat and then walking away with millions, HUNDREDS of millions each year from profits.

The ICU are targeting the weak and poor, who are pretty defenceless. They need to deal and tackle with the main offenders and thats the dealers and start bringing them down first. If the khat infostructure is not destroyed and stopped, then khat will continue to be sold, regardless of some lashings.

as for the econmony, im not saying that its something that will change overnight, but i havent heard any plans from the ICU on that front. Its being one ruling and punishment after another and they are ignoring the real plights of the people. Its not enough to have a few long beared sheiks running the country. Islam is a compleate way of life and deals with every aspect. We need economists, engineers, doctors and skilled people to help bring some ideas forward that can be practially applied and acted upon.
:sl:

Actually it'd make more sense to take out the dealers cause they're the one's who are flooding the streets with this filth, the dealers will give up the suppliers once they see the serverity of the punishment fears a good motivator and there end of problem. Those skilled people need to come forward and be counted.
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Durrah
08-25-2006, 10:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islam-truth
:sl:

Actually it'd make more sense to take out the dealers cause they're the one's who are flooding the streets with this filth, the dealers will give up the suppliers once they see the serverity of the punishment fears a good motivator and there end of problem. Those skilled people need to come forward and be counted.
:sl:

The main dealers are not the ones that you see, sitting infront of the company placard, saying 'buy your khat for xxx shillings'. They're not the ones who deal at high level or have the power. They just the poor people who are at the front, because they dont have any other option.

The main dealers bro, are the main suppliers. Its the same folk and they are NOT the ones being punished. These guys are the virtually untouchable! Its them who are flooding the streets.

And again, there needs to be a halal alternative for the people bro. Its no good saying to a mother of 10 kids, whos husband is either dead or a waste of space : " you must stop selling khat or else", if you are not then going to help her in another way and watch her and her kids die because thats the end result, more death.

The ICU need to get real and get practical. Like I said, where are there blueprints on the countries economy? what have they brought forward to the table? Nothing!

Look at somaliland bro. Business down there is thriving and whilst khat is still being sold, alhmdualiah people are starting to invest into the country and the imporatant systems we need in place to help the country run and are moving away from khat slowly. Whats wrong with those leading in Xamar? Why can't they do the same! The ICU can sit there and call themselves 'muslim leaders' but if they're sitting on their fat bums, stroking their beards and cooking up new laws, but doing nothing to delvelop various systems in the country which are much needed, then they're a waste of space. Im not aganist the establishment of allah s.w.t laws, but shariah law, islam and the quran deal with all aspects of life, ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE and not just criminology or aqeedah.
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Zulkiflim
08-26-2006, 12:49 AM
Salaam,

The simple fact is the west hates its lifestyle to be challenged or restairned.

They wnat to do what pleases them BUT NOT TAKE ACCOUTNABILITY FOR THEIR ACTION.

That is the sum o fit.

They want to take pot,to enjoy.
They want to rape,but not be punished.
They wnat to do all their hearts desire,all that is wrong,but what pleases them..but not face the REPURCUSSION.

So by forcing other to live like them,to be like them,,then that can say that IT IS NORMAL.
But when Islam came and established these rules,they fear their lifestyle is is plain wrong,humanly and divinely..
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*Hana*
08-26-2006, 01:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
:sl:

The main dealers are not the ones that you see, sitting infront of the company placard, saying 'buy your khat for xxx shillings'. They're not the ones who deal at high level or have the power. They just the poor people who are at the front, because they dont have any other option.

The main dealers bro, are the main suppliers. Its the same folk and they are NOT the ones being punished. These guys are the virtually untouchable! Its them who are flooding the streets.

And again, there needs to be a halal alternative for the people bro. Its no good saying to a mother of 10 kids, whos husband is either dead or a waste of space : " you must stop selling khat or else", if you are not then going to help her in another way and watch her and her kids die because thats the end result, more death.

The ICU need to get real and get practical. Like I said, where are there blueprints on the countries economy? what have they brought forward to the table? Nothing!

Look at somaliland bro. Business down there is thriving and whilst khat is still being sold, alhmdualiah people are starting to invest into the country and the imporatant systems we need in place to help the country run and are moving away from khat slowly. Whats wrong with those leading in Xamar? Why can't they do the same! The ICU can sit there and call themselves 'muslim leaders' but if they're sitting on their fat bums, stroking their beards and cooking up new laws, but doing nothing to delvelop various systems in the country which are much needed, then they're a waste of space. Im not aganist the establishment of allah s.w.t laws, but shariah law, islam and the quran deal with all aspects of life, ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE and not just criminology or aqeedah.
Salam Alaikum sister:

I understand what you're saying and agree to a degree. There has to be alternatives to lift the people out of poverty....social programs, skills development, developing the fishery (as you suggest), etc. I understand what may lead someone to sell illegal drugs, but we cannot allow it to ever be acceptable. Drug suppliers will never go away and they very rarely live in the place it is being distrubuted. It must be stopped from the bottom up. No buyers would mean no need for sellers, no sellers would mean no need for supply. Will drug distribution be completely eliminated? No, I don't believe it will. But, it's use and effect on society can be diminished greatly through education and alternative ways to earn an income.

Drugs take people out of the reality of their hardship and misery when they can see no way out of thier situation. They use it as a way to leave the reality for a short time. Unfortunately, as we all know, it causes far worse hardships and misery as the addiction progresses. It's a vicious circle that effects entire communities. The people need to be given help and hope where they can see a better future and a way out of poverty.

I absolutely agree the ICU needs to focus on developing the country's economy and give people the means to support themselves and families. The lack of hope will only create more addicts.

Inshallah, the help and hope will come, sister.

Wa'alaikum salam,
Hana
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-26-2006, 02:28 AM
Salaam,

Hana,yes i agree...

This woman may or may not be doing it out of greed or out of necessity.
As did the other men whom are equally punished.

Somalia needs to make clear on such stance that is detrimetal to the human being,drugs,rape,incest and so on....

But every action the somalis will do to implement law and order based on Shariah will be ridiculed.For not becasue of it efficacy but becasue it is from Islam.

Inshallah,we may be seeing a muslim coutnry based on Sharia.

Isnhallah,may Allah support them in their road towards an Islamic coutnry with all it condition.
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Jayda
08-26-2006, 02:52 AM
What is Shariah...
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Zulkiflim
08-26-2006, 03:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jayda
What is Shariah...
Salaam,

Shariah is Islamic laws.

Some basics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

Of course if you want more i am sure toehr will give a more comprehensive study.

Some notorious propaganda by the west are laws of stoning and cutting the hands.

Stoning is for adultery,rape and so on.
HAnds chopped off is for theivery of any form.

But of course as is all set of laws,it is dependant on the spirit and literal interpretation of the law.
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manaal
08-26-2006, 06:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Perhaps they should have flogging in the UK, we sure can do with some empty jail cells!

True for any countries in the world. People commit crimes and they are looked after of by spending the money of law-abiding tax payers. ^o)

I mean why should money be spent to look after them? Its a worse punishment for them to be out on the streets scraping for a living that being in prison. I understand that modern-day prisons treat their inmates quite well, and they even get to complete their education! Which is something most could not have done if they were on the streets. Do murderers, rapists and drug dealers really deserve such treatment???? They are not really "locked up" are they?

On the subject of prisons... is their a prison system in Islam? I've never heard of one... does anybody know?
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manaal
08-26-2006, 06:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Geronimo
And yet people commit crimes veryday throughout the muslim world. If they didn't why have courts?
Criminal courts isn't the only form of courts, didn't you know???????
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manaal
08-26-2006, 06:29 AM
<deleted>
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Woodrow
08-26-2006, 06:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by manaal
True for any countries in the world. People commit crimes and they are looked after of by spending the money of law-abiding tax payers. ^o)

I mean why should money be spent to look after them? Its a worse punishment for them to be out on the streets scraping for a living that being in prison. I understand that modern-day prisons treat their inmates quite well, and they even get to complete their education! Which is something most could not have done if they were on the streets. Do murderers, rapists and drug dealers really deserve such treatment???? They are not really "locked up" are they?

On the subject of prisons... is their a prison system in Islam? I've never heard of one... does anybody know?
Afghanistan used to have a large prison in Kabul. I don't know if they still do. Iran has several prisons seperate ones for men and women. Morocco has some that I know of. Yep, I would say the Islamic countries do have jails and prisons.
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manaal
08-26-2006, 06:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
:sl:


Regarding this case itself, i have a problem with. I dont think they should have lashed the woman, and i'll tell you why, its because this was probably her only method of income and a way of feeding her family. Many women in somalia have been forced due to their poverty, to sell this drug on the streets and as unfortantly many of our menfolk are either drugged up, dead or unemployed. If our men did their jobs, stopped taking khat, then maybe they'd be able to try and work and our women folk wouldnt have to reduce themselves to doing this. But the story is always the same and unfortanly many women have no choice but to rely on themselves to get food on the table.
Doesn't Somalia have a proper Baith-ul-Maal or Zakaath system? If so maybe the poor will be better off. I'm asking becuase I don;t know. Hope I don;t sound sarcastic.
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manaal
08-26-2006, 06:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Afghanistan used to have a large prison in Kabul. I don't know if they still do. Iran has several prisons seperate ones for men and women. Morocco has some that I know of. Yep, I would say the Islamic countries do have jails and prisons.
I meant what was the view of Propeht Muahammad (s.a.w) regarding prisons? Is there a prison system according to Shariah? If so how are they funded?
(...were prisoners of war actually kept in prisons at that time??)
Reply

E'jaazi
08-26-2006, 07:11 AM
Here is a thought: People are always afraid of another "Taliban" style regime taking over another country. But while the Taliban were extreme, no one considers the fact that since the Taliban were overthrown, things in Afghanistan have become much worse. Crime has risen, raping of women has risen, and the drugs have returned. Not to mention the constant fighting and death toll. The same can be said for Iraq. As bad as things were when Saddam was in power, they are much worse now.

Another thought: Why do Americans always view other countries way of punishing people has harsh? Do you know what other countries have alot less of than the US? Repeat offenders and criminals with rap sheets. Why? Because of the consequences. How many people on the street who are only selling reefer have been arrested several times before? Many. And many of the many have even been in jail before.

Lastly, Americans need to stop believing that the rest of the world should do things exactly the way Americans do.
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Durrah
08-26-2006, 10:37 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by manaal
Doesn't Somalia have a proper Baith-ul-Maal or Zakaath system? If so maybe the poor will be better off. I'm asking becuase I don;t know. Hope I don;t sound sarcastic.
No they dont sister. We have no systems to help the poor. You either have money or you dont and theres only so much that somalis in the west can finanacially do for their people because many of us have our own financial struggels to deal with, there must be more done in somalia itself. The people who have some money do give to chairty, but relaistically the overwhelming majority of the country is in abject poverty. They need more then the odd shillings here and there.
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Jayda
08-26-2006, 02:57 PM
Thanks for answering my question...
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gamsta3
08-26-2006, 03:29 PM
:sl:

Well I cant be a hypocrite, cause I smoke cannabis all the time. All i can say is, i wouldnt like to be walking down the road in Somalia right now. But afcourse, marijuana is an intoxicant so you could say she got off lightly.
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gamsta3
08-26-2006, 03:32 PM
Somalia is supposed to be quite rich with natural gas, right?
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Jayda
08-26-2006, 03:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by gamsta3
:sl:

Well I cant be a hypocrite, cause I smoke cannabis all the time. All i can say is, i wouldnt like to be walking down the road in Somalia right now. But afcourse, marijuana is an intoxicant so you could say she got off lightly.
Why don't you stop...
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afriend
08-26-2006, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by manaal
Why does everyone make such a fuss when Muslim leaders make such decsions? Just because someone is not afraid to follow the shariah they are labelled as "fundamentalists" as if its equal to "terrorism"............

ALL MUSLIMS who care about following the BASIC PRINCIPALS OF ISLAM are FUNDAMENTALISTS.

The same goes to anyone, belonging to any religion who set up their life according to the foundations of their religion.
Not just that sister.

If you take a doctor for example, he must know the fundamentals of medicine in order to be a doctor, the meaning of fundament is-a base or basic principle; underlying part; foundation.

I was shocked to see this word in the dictionary to be assigned to 'muslims', every blooming successful profession must have fundamentals.
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AHMED_GUREY
08-26-2006, 11:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
:sl:

Being of somali orgin myself and having visted the country, i think theres some points which werent orginally mentioned in the article, which doesnt give the full picture of the situation over there.


Khat (which is the name of the drug) is THE biggest social ill in somalia. One who has connection with the somali community, somalis and whatnot will know this right away. Its practially intoxicated the country and the number of addicts is incrediably high and addicts spend their megre income on that drug rather then feed their family! . And many will steal, beg on the streets just to get their next fix. I have witnessed this many times (first and second hand).

Also, the biggest khat dealers tend to have links with criminal warlords, who profit from it massively and use the money to fund activities.

Most somalis know what Khat has done to our people and many will agree that the supply and distribution of khat needs to be stopped indefinatly. Its hard for outsiders to imagine and will sit there and comment on how its only 'soft' drugs and how its minor, but for us its not. The affects of Khat on the community and country are like the effects of herion (whilst the physical symptons are different, the social problems that areise are very simalar) and i can't imagine anyone accepting herion, knowing all is ills and problems that it causes and would fully support their goverment in taking a harsh stance against dealers, suppliers etc, so i dont see why people why our country should be any different.


Regarding this case itself, i have a problem with. I dont think they should have lashed the woman, and i'll tell you why, its because this was probably her only method of income and a way of feeding her family. Many women in somalia have been forced due to their poverty, to sell this drug on the streets and as unfortantly many of our menfolk are either drugged up, dead or unemployed. If our men did their jobs, stopped taking khat, then maybe they'd be able to try and work and our women folk wouldnt have to reduce themselves to doing this. But the story is always the same and unfortanly many women have no choice but to rely on themselves to get food on the table.

If the ICU wanted to lash anyone, it should be the big khat dealers and suppliers who are making millions every years. They're the ones living in the big mansions in Hargesia, Burco, Xamar, driving the nice cars and have their fancy homes aborad. They are the ones making the killer profits and exporting the Khat from Ethopia and Kenya! They need to shut down the infostructure and punish the major dealers/suppliers/exporters and not penalise the poor women, men and children who have no option but to earn a living somehow. I strongly oppose khat, but i wonder how many of us, living in destute and abject poverty would sell khat if it meant you could buy water and some food so your family dont die! Im not saying its right, but the ICU need to tackle the issue from the very top and not from the bottom, because its the elite and wealthy individuals who are expoliting the poorer people! We can't afford to run for quick fixes!

Its all fine and dandy for the ICU to lash the women, but thats not going to stop the selling and distrubiton of it, if the onwers and major suppliers are not being stopped.

Also, the ICU need to start finding ways of economically lifting our people out of poverty. 95-98% of the people are living in harsh conditons, incrediably acute poverty, are striken with famine, illness etc.. So far, all they have been doing is handing down religous regulations and punishments but have done nothing on helping the country economy and finding ways of helping our nation use its resources to uplift itself from its condition. We have the largest coastline in the whole of africa and have an abudent of seafood in the sea, which if our leaders took notice of, they could start to protect our shores and start up the fishing industry and start exporting our fish. Currently, the japaease, the danish and some other nations are on our shores and waters, illegially poaching our products for nothing. If they got together and tried to do something with the coastline, which was once a bustling area, then inshallah some much needed finances and jobs could be found.

We also have oil and petrol in our mountains and earth and again if we made deals with other countries, inshallah we could start to use our natural resources to benifit the country and the people!

If such things could be done, then maybe our men and women would have halal jobs to do and wouldnt be reduced to supplying Khat as a method of living.
warwareeeeeeeey what's with this apocalypse now image of somalia your painting :uuh:

you don't sound realistic those brave brothers have only been in power for 2 months

they have done what the 1434444 failed somali interim governments and UN,EU,US,AU,IGAD ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ failed to deliver to the ordinary somalis who were being hi-jacked by thugz and incompetent leaders

ICU destroyed the warlords and their infamous roadblocks and the prices of goods are down

people no longer have to pay for security people no longer have to pay at check points

somali parents no longer worry about someone taking away their daughters

http://www.peacewomen.org/news/Somal...lordsFoes.html

^^this is one of main reasons why i support these brave men

only cowards would rape women and those cowards were humiliated and got what they deserved

ICU gives the El-maan port and it's 10 thousand workers security and their business is booming

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topic...8&parent_id=28

now foreign traders can come to our ports without fear of their ships getting hi-jacked cause the ICU destroyed the pirate strongholds

http://www.ssunion.net/?q=node/1045

they re-opened Mogadishu's sea port

http://www.hiiraan.com/news/2006/aug...-11-years.aspx

they re-opened Mogadishu's airport

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1666393/posts

because of ICU'S law and order somalis from the diaspora are floggin to Mogadishu for business deals

Eastleigh - a bustling neighbourhood in the east of Nairobi - is where many of the city's 25,000 Somalis live.

This is not a ghetto. It is a thriving business community with freshly painted buildings, gridlocked traffic and a turnover of around &#163;30m ($56m) a month.

That is extremely high for this part of the world.

Walk the packed streets and you will find women wearing the hijab, or headscarf, and rows of men dipping into big sacks of khat or miraa - the leafy narcotic that is chewed by so many here. It gives them a buzz and smoothes conversation.

This is Somalia recreated on Kenyan soil. And the numbers arriving are swelling.

Eyeing opportunities

So back to the hotels, why is business so brisk?

Well, they are heaving, not with recent refugees but with Somalis from the vast and wealthy diaspora.

They are en route to Mogadishu with potential deals on their mind.

The Somali community worldwide is huge and many send their money home.
this will ensure more jobs for our people

they re-opened our old symbolical mosque wich now also shelters poor

http://static.flickr.com/84/21887759...f105e2.jpg?v=0

and the ICU is also credited with rebuilding schools and hospitals for the last decade

Because the ICU brothers have the dignity to put their pride aside and aren't profit driven maniacs like those warlords aid organisation now finnaly can operate in somalia and today a 800-ton vessel carrying medical suplies and building materials arrived in Mogadishu port

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060825/ap_on_re_af/somalia

another large ship entered

The second biggest commercial ship has docked at the main sea port of Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia on Saturday two days after Islamists reopened it.

UAE registered Victoria vessel which had sailed from Dubai was carrying commercial goods including commodities and cars.

The ship chartered by Somali businessman called Abdi Wif began to unload the shipment with all former staff resumed work.

“The work of the main old port in Mogadishu continues properly,” local Islamist said. “This will help the life better and boost the business,” Earlier first cargo ship had docked at the port of Mogadishu hours after Islamic Courts controlling the capital and much of south and central Somalia, declared that it was open to business.
and let me quote myself somalis have done quite well without a government or foreign aid


format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
somalia without a government

WORLD BANK

Somalia flourished precisely because of the "world community’s" neglect.

In Somalia, "the very absence of a government may have helped nurture an African oddity — a lean and efficient business sector that does not feed at a public trough controlled by corrupt officials," wrote Peter Maas in the May 2001 issue of The Atlantic Monthly. Tele-communications, transportation, and shipping companies were organized up to provide services to the liberated private sector. Internet cafes have sprung up in Mogadishu. Private security firms helped businessmen protect their investments and property.

A recent World Bank study grudgingly admitted: "Somalia boasts lower rates of extreme poverty and, in some cases, better infrastructure than richer countries in Africa." This is almost certainly because it is not cursed with a World Bank-subsidized central government to siphon away the nation’s wealth.


http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman...rticle_996.sht ml

The Answer for Africa
by Shafer Parker



According to Andrew Cockburn in the July issue of National Geographic magazine, Somalia is rising, phoenix-like, from the ashes of the 1993 war and becoming an economic powerhouse in eastern Africa precisely because anarchy has reigned ever since. Consider Cockburn’s on-the-scene assessment of what has happened since the war. "Like plants sprouting after a forest fire, Somalis have managed to survive and build on their own, in some respects with more success than developing nations on the receiving end of international aid and advice."

Significantly, the Somalis get it. They have learned through experience that less government is good, and that no government is better. Hear what telecommunications tycoon Abdirizak Ido told Mr. Cockburn: "We have been through some hard times, but the worst was when we had a government. Once there was no government, there was opportunity!"


Somali Businesses Stunted by Too-Free Enterprise

By Ian Fisher



There are five competing airlines here; three phone companies, which have some of the cheapest rates in the world; at least two pasta factories; 45 private hospitals; 55 providers of electricity; 1,500 wholesalers for imported goods; and an infinite number of guys with donkeys who will deliver 55 gallons of clean water to your house for 25 cents.

What Somalia does not have is a government, and in many ways, that makes it the world's purest laboratory for capitalism. No one collects taxes. Business is booming. Libertarians of the world, unite


It is striking that Somalia, unlike many parts of Africa, has achieved this thriving business climate on its own, without the usual aid and advice from rich nations. They have all but disengaged from Somalia since the failure of the United Nations operation here in the early 1990's. Somalis have learned that they are pretty good at making money.

"It's entrepreneurism that's doing it," said Ahmed Abdisalam Adan, director of programs for Horn Afrik, Somalia's first independent radio and television station, established last year. "It's who has more creativity. It's who is willing to take risks. Before it was the government. The government could make you rich one day and poor the next



chinese investors

http://www.puntlandpost.com/newspage.php?articleid=5176

Business Attraction in Puntland, Somalia

Bossaso city has become a magnet for foreigners who want to invest in Africa. This week alone, there are about half a dozen business people representing Chinese and South Korean corporations in the city. These representatives and others who frequent Puntland want to invest in the region and expand their business to this part of the world. Interested people include wealthy business men from the Middle East.

Puntland (North Eastern Somalia) has not been touched by the country’s civil war and has remained stable after the fall of Somalia’s central government in 1991. It lies on the tip of East Africa and borders Indian Ocean and Red Sea.


Communication Networks

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4020259.stm

TELCOM SOMALIA

Telcom is the largest and the leading telecommunications network operator in Somalia. Telcom is the first major privately owned company providing telecommunications in Somalia territory. Telcom principal activities include local, long distance, national and international telecommunication, mobile communications, and a wide range of data services including broadband access.

http://www.telcom-somalia.com/index.htm



STG over the years has proven to be a lucrative successful telephone business venture. STG became a vital part of Somali people socially and commercially. Customer demand did not end only for voice and fax services; currently STG telecom services include GSM Mobile services, SMS, Prepaid telecom services, high speed internet, local and international long distance services through out the entire STG Network.

NATIONLINK

Headquartered in Mogadishu, Somalia, NationLink offers a variety of
telecom services including landline telephones, faxes, data, long range
cordless telephones and Internet services. NationLink is one of three major
telecommunications companies headquartered in Mogadishu that has participated
in collaborating to form a joint Internet company -- Somali Internet Company
(SICO) to provide services throughout the region


UNIVERSITIES





The university is a multipurpose institution. In addition to preparing competent professionals, it aims to be a community learning centre, an idea hub, a focal point for practical and theoretical research, and a development engine that makes real difference to lives of the people in the city and beyond.



BU was established in Mogadishu, Somalia in September 2002. The University has now four Faculties (Medicine, Computer Science, Education and Engineering). and there are plans to add other faculties at earliest possible time.



MU shall take a pioneering role in filling the educational gap created during the civil war so as to provide higher education opportunities for the young generations of Somalia.

MU shall give students an opportunity of higher education and specialization in various spheres of sciences and literature in response to the desperate needs of the country for educated human resources.

MU shall develop indigenous scientific knowledge through encouraging focused research programs in the priority sectors


http://www.mogadishuuniversity.com/objectives.html

Future Complex now being build





Amoud University is a community-owned non-governmental, national University and open to all aspiring candidates who fulfill the admission requirements without discrimination based on sex, ethnic, origin, creed or color.

Faculties

Faculty of Education
Faculty of Business and Public Administration
Faculty of Medicine of Surgery
Faculty of Natural Resources (Department of Agriculture )
Faculty of Information & Communication Technology (Online )


Future Hiiraan University Complex



http://www.webometrics.info/top100_c...ont=africa.htm

three universities in the top 100

one surpasses Ethiopia,Sudan,Ghana and the other 2 are higher ranked than Djibouti and Eritrea

DIASPORA



Dahabshiil has 75 agents in the UK and over 400 branches and agents world-wide

The quality of service differentiates Dahabshiil from its competitors. Dahabshiil is now recognised as the most reputable commercial enterprise in the sector. Customers call it trustworthy, reliable, cost-effective and efficient.

The company's long-term strategy is to remain the first choice of money transfer services for migrants from the Horn of Africa. Our mission is to be an innovative, customer-oriented company that consistently exceeds customers' expectations of service.


The diaspora anually pumps 2/3 billion into somalia


It may surprise you that we have been around for over 12 years. The company has grown from humble beginning with one Cessna aircraft in 1991, to become one of the largest flights network in Africa. Daallo Airlines is nominated as one of the show case success stories in Africa by Mr. Fick, David S, in his book of "Entrepreneurship in Africa: A study of Success".




NO AIDS PANDEMIC



By STEPHANIE NOLEN
Monday, July 25, 2005

XUDDUR, SOMALIA -- They have posters. They have training manuals. They have wipe-off markers. The only thing that the earnest band of AIDS educators in this Somali town don't have is, well, any people with AIDS.

At least none they know of.

The breadth of the AIDS pandemic has led to the idea in the West that the entire continent is ravaged by the disease. But Somalia -- isolated for 14 years since the civil war began and populated by devout Muslims -- has an infection rate of perhaps only 1.5 or 2 per cent of the adult population.

Its isolation has helped to keep the infection rate one of the lowest in Africa at a time when countries to the south are reporting infection rates of 40 per cent of the adult population


POLIO

''If polio can be stopped in Somalia, it can be stopped anywhere,"

Carol Bellamy, Unicef's executive director

Nairobi - The United Nations has removed conflict-ravaged Somalia from a list of polio-endemic countries as no new cases of the disease have been reported in the Horn of Africa nation for two years, the UN Children's Fund said on Monday.

The agency described Somalia's success in combating polio as a "miraculous victory for children over conflict and devastation."

"If polio can be stopped in Somalia, it can be stopped anywhere," Carol Bellamy, Unicef's executive director, said in statement. "This success is a testament to the will of the Somali people and the effectiveness of strategies in place to stop the virus."

The nation of seven million people has not had an effective central government since the ouster of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991, and has been ruled by rival, heavily armed clan-based militia for more than a decade.


Polio is still endemic in Nigeria, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Niger and Egypt.

An immunisation campaign in Nigeria has been marred by a six-month polio vaccine boycott in the west African nation's predominantly Islamic northern state of Kano.

Kano authorities have insisted tests conducted by the state's scientists last year showed the vaccines were contaminated with a variant of the hormone estrogen, which they said would cause infertility in girls.

Some Nigerian Islamic clerics also argued the vaccines also spread Aids, claiming their evidence originated on the Internet.

Somalia is a predominantly Muslim country, and Unicef praised Islamic leaders in that nation for being a "major force" behind immunisation campaigns.

A fresh three-day campaign was launched in Somalia on Monday.

The United Nations and its partners, including Rotary International and the United States' Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, are planning to implement monitoring systems in Somalia in the next few months. Once they are in place, the country has to have no reported cases of polio for another two years to be deemed polio free.
- Sapa-AP


CURRENCY

SoSh (Somali shilling)



the SoSh's stability is reflected by the fact that in parts of neighboring Ethiopia the SoSh is more extensivly used than Ethiopia's own currency (:2003 :144) In fact prior to the last large monetary injection in Somalia in march 1999 and in 2000 the SoSh showed greater stability than the currencies of Ethiopia and Kenya from 1996 february to 1999 the SoSh depreciated against the US$ only 12.14% Between 1996-1999 the Kenyan shilling lost 32.55% against the US$ and the Ethiopian birr depreciated against the dollar 26.58%




Berbera of somaliland and bossaso of Puntland ports

LIVE STOCK TRADE




REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY



HILAAC REAL ESTATE AND CONSTRUCTIONS

Bosasso 1 | 91 houses - almost completed
Bosasso 2 | 80 houses - started september 30 2005
Gaalkacyo 1 | 300 houses - started september 30 2005
Laascaanood | 250 houses - planned to start in 2005
Gaalkacyo 2 | 300 houses - planned to start in 2006
Garowe | 150 houses - planned to start in 2006
Carmo | 100 houses - planned to start in 2006

http://www.hilaac.net/

DARYEEL CONSTRUCTION COMPANY

http://www.daryeel.com/aboutus.htm

Dayeel is locally owned Somaliland Constructions company employing around 400 staff across Somaliland and with completion of approximately 100 of constructions annually.

DCC is highly respected and well-established contracting company, with professional builders and surveyors supported by an experienced administrative team. We provide a complete range of construction and program management services in all in the segments of residential and business building market.


ALLA-AAMIN CONSTRUCTION COMPANY

http://www.alla-aamin.com/

LUCK STAR CONTRUCTION LTD COMPANY

http://www.lstarconstruction.com/home.html

UNIVERSAL & ENGINEERING CONSULTANT CO.

http://unieco.co.uk/default.asp

CHINA CIVIL ENGINEERING CORP


http://www.sbconline.net/news.php?page=newspage&id=6443

they build schools,houses,hospitals and roads


Tharwa Net-Watch

From the chaos, it's a business boom in somalia


Import and export is a booming business. Traders are doing whatever they can to get hold of useful stuff that can sell abroad. Neither traditional nor non-traditional commodities are spared. Even markets for scrap metals that litter all over the place are to be found, especially old military gear and other devices wrecked during the civil war.

The import sector is the most interesting. Town dwellers all over Somalia cannot complain of a shortage of commodities as adroit traders have managed to fill stores with all sorts of goods. Sugar from Brazil, toys from Thailand, trinkets from India and even shotguns from Ukraine all compete for buyers in Mogadishu and elsewhere.

Trade between Somalia and other countries has multiplied. Some people even estimate that the trade volume is so huge that it could be considered one of the biggest in the Horn of Africa, outdoing more politically stable countries such as Kenya and Ethiopia.

Sceptics say Somali traders have become so profit driven as to compromise all values. Environmental and public health concerns have been raised, especially due to deforestation. The prevalence of strange diseases is assumed to be due to consumption of substandard, imported foods and drugs.

In the absence of law enforcing institutions to safeguard investor rights, joint ventures have been founded based on trust. It seems unimaginable that as many as 600 investors could pool their capital in order to initiate and run a single or a chain of businesses. It is not unusual to hear radio announcements calling shareholders for a meeting or news of a company management declaring payment of dividends. But beneficiaries tend to hide their huge income, fearing kidnappers.

Minarets of mosques generally greet visitors to Somalia's urban areas, but in these days the sight of communication transmitters of the shape of Paris's Eiffel Tower is becoming quite common. They are the product of intense competition among telecommunications and media companies who want to send and receive signals through the airwaves.

The recent opening of a Coca Cola plant in Mogadishu is an indication of how multinationals are beginning to expand their franchises to previously risky areas. It is a sign that more investors will follow suit, creating jobs and generating more locally made products.


http://www.tharwaproject.com/index.p...=1006&Itemid=0



FISHING INDUSTRY OF SOMALIA

Puntland International

Farah Awosman

Bosaso 944 2132+47 9062 0916 +47 2236 0923

puntlandinternational@hotmail.com

- We are a fishing company located on the coast of Somalia. We deal in all sorts of fish like Grouper, Red Snapper, King fish, shark fins, lobster, sea cucumber etc.

Ridwan Seafoods Ltd

Ahmed Ali

Kismayo 515 8118 - yareahmed@hotmail.com

http://www.ridwan.com

A company based in Kenya, somalia and also Dubai. We do handling exporting and local supply of frozen and live lobsters from lower Jubba especially Burgao, Kuda, Kamboni, Gobwain and Kismayo. We export 5000 frozen lobster to overseas each month by air.


Sanaag Fisheries Company

Ali Jama

Sanaag 754 6369 754 6541

sanaagfisheries@yahoo.com

Exporting mainly on hamour fillet, tuna and lobsters. We also have a legal permission from the Somaliland government so that any investor who is willing, a joint venture in this industry is welcome.

Siiste - Royal Seafood Inc.

Maxamed Said

Sanaag, Somaliland 7 213 456 7 514 654

Sevenseas_world@yahoo.com

We are one of the biggest export & import companies in the East African countries. Products include grouper, red snapper, king fish, tuna, shrimps, lobster. Also: dried fishes such as shark fins, shark bones, sea cucumbers, fish maws, dried shark meat and dried shrimps.

Somafish International Company

Abshir H. Osman

Mogadishu 1 635 272 1 635 272

abshrlee@emirates.net.ae

We are exporters/wholesalers of seafood. Our facility in Somalia is very modern, it includes a new 100mt freezer capacity. Our products include Snapper, Grouper, Kingfish, Tuna and in addition we would be able to supply other species that are available in the Indian Ocean.
4/11 SomFish Ltd Said Ali
Sadiq Shire Bosaaso +971 50 348 4160 +971 4 227 8611 saidarrale@hotmail.com

Recap

- Somalia's communications network is more advanced then it's neighbouring countries

-Somalia's private sector has a trade network considered the biggest of the horn africa

-Somalia has 3 universities in the top 100, one is higher ranked than Ghana,Ethiopia,Sudan

-Somalia doesn't have an AIDS pandemic

-Somalia has an diaspora that anually pumps in billions trough Dahabshiil

-Somalia eradicated POLIO

-Somalia's Daallo Airlines is becoming one of the biggest flights networks in africa

-Somalia's currency is more stable then the ones of Kenya and Ethiopia and is even used in those countries

-Somalia's real estate and fishing industries are taking off

-Somalia's Puntland is attracting foreign investors from all over Asia

-Somalia livestock industry is booming


somalia achieved all of this without a government and foreign aid
civil war destroyed our country and this quote clearly shows our people are rebuilding even without a central government

we still have a lot of things we have to work on

don't expect somalia becomes a powerhouse in one week we will get there insha-allah with Allah swt help

and about the Khat issue i find your comparison of Khat with heroin ridicilous and laughable

khat has the same effects as a few shots of coffee

our last president banned it so when we have a government we can re-implement this ban
Reply

manaal
08-27-2006, 10:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Durrah
:sl:

No they dont sister. We have no systems to help the poor. You either have money or you dont and theres only so much that somalis in the west can finanacially do for their people because many of us have our own financial struggels to deal with, there must be more done in somalia itself. The people who have some money do give to chairty, but relaistically the overwhelming majority of the country is in abject poverty. They need more then the odd shillings here and there.
Insha Allah, the Muslim rulers should set up a system if they are seriuos about running the country in an Islamic manner. Otherwise there is not point in calling themselves an Islamic governement. ^o)
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
08-27-2006, 04:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I'm not advocating public floggings, but I often wonder if maybe our punishments may be kinder in writing but crueler in effect. A year in jail affects a mans earning and deprives a family of a bread winner. 11 lashes most likely only affects the culprit.
Well, speaking as one who is particularly fond of the sweet leaf, I'd quit smoking pot if THAT was the punishment for getting caught! Of course, I'd probably lose alot of weight - that would be bad for me because I can never seem to keep a decent weight to begin with (I'm the only Sicilian who hates eating food), but 11 lashes would hardly be worth the benefit of having a decent appetite.

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Hawa
08-27-2006, 07:46 PM
Six people were lashed, yet the title reads "woman lashed in public"... I would think everyone would appreciate the equality...
Somalia has been in a state of chaos for the past 16 years..interesting how its suddenly in the limelight, brace yourselves for more news on "human rights abuse" by the "Islamic fundamentalists"...
Reply

syilla
08-28-2006, 02:37 AM
:sl:

can anyone post...the rules of lashing for the criminal according to Islam...

i only know a little bit here and there...

i read that you cannot take your hands so high when lashing the criminal...
Reply

north_malaysian
08-28-2006, 02:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
:sl:

can anyone post...the rules of lashing for the criminal according to Islam...

i only know a little bit here and there...

i read that you cannot take your hands so high when lashing the criminal...
When I've learnt Islamic Crimina Law, my lecturer said that to whip a convict, try putting a book under the arm-pit... as long as the book doesnt fall down from the armpit, it's still within the limit to lash the convict..
Reply

syilla
08-28-2006, 03:32 AM
^^^ i think the criminal should prefer lashing than being prisioned...for a few years.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-28-2006, 03:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
^^^ i think the criminal should prefer lashing than being prisioned...for a few years.
i think the criminal will prefer to have 100 Islamic lashes rather than 1 Malaysian civil law lash.......
Reply

syilla
08-28-2006, 04:09 AM
have you ever seen one? can you story me a bit (manglish)
Reply

north_malaysian
08-28-2006, 04:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
have you ever seen one? can you story me a bit (manglish)
Nope.... but from what I've heard it takes 2 week to heal from 1 lash in Malaysian prison.... that's why we have like 5 lashes or 7 lashes only....
Reply

syilla
08-28-2006, 04:37 AM
wow...thats why in islam they have rules on whipping...

not letting people to over do it...
Reply

starfortress
08-28-2006, 04:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
have you ever seen one? can you story me a bit (manglish)

I saw it on handphone,you know after got 20 lashed,that person start to walking like a crab..seriously it damaging,imagine 20 lash at the same place using about 4 foot of rattan stick and me even cannot to watch it till the end.
Reply

north_malaysian
08-28-2006, 04:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by starfortress
I saw it on handphone,you know after got 20 lashed,that person start to walking like a crab..seriously it damaging,imagine 20 lash at the same place using about 4 foot of rattan stick and me even cannot to watch it till the end.
:uuh: :uuh: :uuh: Walking like a crab?
Reply

starfortress
08-28-2006, 05:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
:uuh: :uuh: :uuh: Walking like a crab?
Dont know kengkang in English
Reply

syilla
08-28-2006, 05:11 AM
^^^^lol...u are funny...

maybe nm only understand 'kangkang'
Reply

north_malaysian
08-28-2006, 05:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
^^^^lol...u are funny...

maybe nm only understand 'kangkang'
I do understand both kangkang and kengkang

Kangkang - straddle, astride

Kengkang - to walk with leg wide apart
Reply

i_m_tipu
08-28-2006, 06:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
funny how the world suddenly cares about somali women

they were silent for the last 16 years
It Happened when politics come it the name of humanity.

It Happened when one trying to justify their wrong doing.

morality of the people lost.
is it becomes a Barbarian age?
Reply

syilla
08-28-2006, 06:17 AM
oh okay...lol i don't know there is such word...

thank you anyway..
Reply

north_malaysian
08-28-2006, 07:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
oh okay...lol i don't know there is such word...

thank you anyway..
Sila bayar RM 5.00 sebagai Yuran Terjemahan. :okay:
Kindly pay RM 5.00 for translation fee.:okay:
Reply

Zulkiflim
08-28-2006, 03:51 PM
Salaam,

Alhamdulilah for our brothers and sisters in somalia..

May Allah bless you make your faith and strength and patience. even stronger.

Perhaps this is a what will come from Iraq and Afghan,destroyed by western power and left and abused by western backed warlord's..

And inshallah,light shall come from the darkness...
Reply

Hayaat
08-29-2006, 04:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by i_m_tipu
It Happened when politics come it the name of humanity.

It Happened when one trying to justify their wrong doing.

morality of the people lost.
is it becomes a Barbarian age?
Can you elaborate on that what excatly are you trying to prove???
Whats barbarian about someone getting punished for a crime they have commited?
Reply

i_m_tipu
08-30-2006, 08:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hayaat
Can you elaborate on that what excatly are you trying to prove???
Whats barbarian about someone getting punished for a crime they have commited?
:) read this again
format_quote Originally Posted by AHMED_GUREY
funny how the world suddenly cares about somali women

they were silent for the last 16 years
here question was why they (they mean US/and their...) care suddenly where they keep silent over 16 years when
WAR LORD was destroying Somallia.
(this WAR LORD fueled by US Directly and US feel proud for it)

my reaction was
format_quote Originally Posted by i_m_tipu
It Happened when politics come it the name of humanity.

It Happened when one trying to justify their wrong doing.

morality of the people lost.
is it becomes a Barbarian age?
:rant: u misunderstood me
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