British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery?

[Isaac]

British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery?
10th August, 2006 Current Affairs

The Times links up with a British-born Jew who is fighting with the Israeli army:

At first sight Ben and his mates could be at a wedding party on the lawns of an hotel in his native Yorkshire.

Except that this hotel is a short drive from the Israel-Lebanon border and, despite his Leeds accent, Ben is an Israeli soldier. He is also cradling an Israeli-army issue Colt AR15 semi-automatic rifle stamped “Property of US Govt”.

Ben, 26, who arrived in Israel last year, is one of thousands of those serving in the Israeli military either as newly arrived citizens or on army programmes for Zionists who want to defend Israel while deciding whether to emigrate.

Earlier in the day he was ducking Hezbollah mortars in the Lebanese village of Adessa, just across the border. Now he sits chatting in two languages about two lives — as a would-be medical student in Britain and as an Israeli soldier known among his colleagues for his stamina and ability to carry a heavy machinegun over long distances.

No cries of treachery there! One wonders how it is that this whole debate on integration and allegiance never seems to include Jews. Orthodox Jews are one of the most insulated communities; their children can grow up having never seen people of a different faith. And now Jews are free to join the army of another country and engage in a conflict that has been condemned by much of the World. This is not new, and has been known for a while, yet no one seems to be doing anything about it.

Of course, had a Muslim Briton been found fighting with the Lebanese there would be no end of uproar. Some will say that Hizbullah is a proscribed group, whereas the Israeli Army is a recognised force; fair enough, but what if someone joined the Lebanese Army, would that be acceptable? Aside from this, many IDF soldiers partake in illegal activity on the Palestinian Occupied Territories; some of those are British. It is a question of being just; it is either acceptable for a Briton to hold allegiances elsewhere or it is not.

The point of me posting this article up, was based around would the western government allow britsih youg muslim men to fight in places such as afghanistan, iraq, lebanon. There are plenty of such people who originate from war zones and should be able t fight just like the british jews. To make my point i think it would cut down terrorism, if these young men were allowed to leave and go fight. this i personally hink is one of the things which lead them to teooeros attack - i.e double standards.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Lol, what about the hundreds that rush off to Afghanistan and Iraq to fight the British?

[Trumble]

I don't quite see your, or the author's, point. The British Army itself has many such foreign soldiers in its own ranks, such as the Nepalese Gurkhas and Fijians. There would be no "treachery" involved in fighting for any foreign army, providing that you are not fighting against Britain or its Allies. That would be the case in Afghanistan and Iraq, and hence there is no "double standard".

Hezbollah is still considered by Britain to be a terrorist organisation, so obviously a Briton fighting for them is likely to fall under serious suspicion, but there would still be no charge of "treason" as such. Any problems in joining the Lebanese army would probably be at the Lebanese end.

[north_malaysian]

No wonder, why Malaysia doesnt allowed her citizen to have dual nationality - LOYALTY...

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[Isaac]

yes they go and fight in places like afghhnaistan, but unlike the britsih or american jews they go iin seceret, less they are arrested and charges for terror. so let me put this question can an britsh msulim of lebanese origin fight againts israel - seeing that it is an allie of britain. im not talking about pronblems on the lebanese side, im talking going from here without being called a terrorisrt. i think these isseues need to be rooted out, because in my opinion it will not cut out the root of terror, but it will reduce its potential.

so its strange you say tehre is no double standards. tehse are the questions muslims should be asking, why is it ok for a british jew to fight for israel, who has killed innocent people, killed un personnel who are suppsoedl;y allies of the us and uk, killed journislist. but when a muslim tries to do teh same he is atererorist ad a traitor. BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARDS. DOUBLE STANDRDS THAT THESE MUSLIM MPS SHOULD PICK UP ON. I RECKON IF BRITAIN ALLOWED MUSLIMS TO GO AND FIGHT FOR THEIR COPUNTRY WITHOUT BEING CALLED TERRORIST IT MAY CHNAGE THEIR VIEW. THAT MY OPINION ANYWAY.

[Isaac]

And its strange how britain and its allies are at war with muslim countries. so in that case it would be treachoury for a muslim to defend his land. but its ok for a britsh soldier to cross land and see and invade a country which has done nothing to it or its people. SHAME WITH THE SOUBLE STANDARDS.

[AvarAllahNoor]

yes they go and fight in places like afghhnaistan, but unlike the britsih or american jews they go iin seceret, less they are arrested and charges for terror. so let me put this question can an britsh msulim of lebanese origin fight againts israel - seeing that it is an allie of britain. im not talking about pronblems on the lebanese side, im talking going from here without being called a terrorisrt. i think these isseues need to be rooted out, because in my opinion it will not cut out the root of terror, but it will reduce its potential.

so its strange you say tehre is no double standards. tehse are the questions muslims should be asking, why is it ok for a british jew to fight for israel, who has killed innocent people, killed un personnel who are suppsoedl;y allies of the us and uk, killed journislist. but when a muslim tries to do teh same he is atererorist ad a traitor. BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARDS. DOUBLE STANDRDS THAT THESE MUSLIM MPS SHOULD PICK UP ON. I RECKON IF BRITAIN ALLOWED MUSLIMS TO GO AND FIGHT FOR THEIR COPUNTRY WITHOUT BEING CALLED TERRORIST IT MAY CHNAGE THEIR VIEW. THAT MY OPINION ANYWAY.

So it's acceptable for people to live here and then go to another country to fight the people they live amongst? :rollseyes

[Isaac]

How about you try to read. I was talking about people fighting the israely armie. And beside the point does it make it ok for people from this counrty to go and fight people in another country for no apprent reason other then polictal gain.,

[Isaac]

the point im tryuing to make is that ok, these people say they want to fight jihad, the govenrment should let them. they shoudl be given the option either stay in this country and fight with us or leave your citizneship and fight with them. this way they can go and fight in the lands over in the middle east, reducing the poissble effect of attcks in this country by people who are frustrated at foregin policy.

[julie sarri]

the point im tryuing to make is that ok, these people say they want to fight jihad, the govenrment should let them. they shoudl be given the option either stay in this country and fight with us or leave your citizneship and fight with them. this way they can go and fight in the lands over in the middle east, reducing the poissble effect of attcks in this country by people who are frustrated at foregin policy.

yes you are right brother the muslims should be given the right to go for jihad like others are aloud to do its not fear on the muslims

[AvarAllahNoor]

yes you are right brother the muslims should be given the right to go for jihad like others are aloud to do its not fear on the muslims

But not against their own countrymen...

[Trumble]

the point im tryuing to make is that ok, these people say they want to fight jihad, the govenrment should let them. they shoudl be given the option either stay in this country and fight with us or leave your citizneship and fight with them.

Who do you think is actually trying to stop them? It's a free country, if people want to travel to Afghanistan, Iraq or wherever, any problems will be at the other end, not leaving the UK. Leaving is easy, just get on a plane. If people wish to renounce British citizenship, and as a consequence never return to the UK that's up to them too. If they do come back, though, having fought for organizations considered by the UK government to be 'enemy', 'terrorist', or both, they should accept the consequences.

[nennar]

SALAAM!

But not against their own countrymen...

WHYNOT??????? THE JEWS DOES IT ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WILL AROUND THE WORLD, AND IF ISREAL NEEDS HELP THEY GO!!!!!!!!! AND NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING........ BUT IF A MUSLIM WAMNTS TO HELP A FELLOW MUSLIM, HE IS A TERRORIST???????????? YOU ARE ALL SO TOTALLY BLINDED BY THE JEWS AND THEIR SAD HISTORY.... SO THE JEWS GOT TO BEHAVE LIKE THEY WANT....

FELLOW MUSLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN DO YOU WAKE UP???????????

[Isaac]

exactly.

[Isaac]

exactly. thats where the million dollar point is. who is a terrorist to you is a freedom fighter to anothjer. in the eyes of the british and us govenrment the following are terrorist sponosrs or organisations:

iraq
iran
hazballah
palestine
syria
somalia

well seeing this is where most of the confllicts are goin on and being muslim countries it would be difficult to get a muslim to fight in Ireland. they will wnat to fight where their countries are being attacked, and most of not all are being attacked by briatin and her allies. so i somehow think that would be impossible. - for a british muslim not to fight.

[AvarAllahNoor]

SALAAM!
WHYNOT??????? THE JEWS DOES IT ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WILL AROUND THE WORLD, AND IF ISREAL NEEDS HELP THEY GO!!!!!!!!! AND NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING........ BUT IF A MUSLIM WAMNTS TO HELP A FELLOW MUSLIM, HE IS A TERRORIST???????????? YOU ARE ALL SO TOTALLY BLINDED BY THE JEWS AND THEIR SAD HISTORY.... SO THE JEWS GOT TO BEHAVE LIKE THEY WANT....

FELLOW MUSLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN DO YOU WAKE UP???????????

Calm down it's only a website....

[AvarAllahNoor]

If a muslim goes from this country to fight agaisnt a british troop that's not allowed. If a muslim goes to fight an ameican that is fine.

[KAding]

SALAAM!
WHYNOT??????? THE JEWS DOES IT ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WILL AROUND THE WORLD, AND IF ISREAL NEEDS HELP THEY GO!!!!!!!!! AND NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING........ BUT IF A MUSLIM WAMNTS TO HELP A FELLOW MUSLIM, HE IS A TERRORIST???????????? YOU ARE ALL SO TOTALLY BLINDED BY THE JEWS AND THEIR SAD HISTORY.... SO THE JEWS GOT TO BEHAVE LIKE THEY WANT....

FELLOW MUSLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN DO YOU WAKE UP???????????

Two remarks:
1. If UK Jews would join the IDF in a fight against the UK they would also be commiting treason
2. The IDF is the army of a recognized country. Joining them is different from joining a private militia. Do you think a UK Muslim would be called a terrorist if he would join, say, the Morrocan army instead of the Taliban?

The Taliban are actively engaged in a war against UK forces, thus there is treason involved. The IDF is not, so there is no treason involved.

[Isaac]

If a muslim goes from this country to fight agaisnt a british troop that's not allowed. If a muslim goes to fight an ameican that is fine.

Are you sure about that!!!!!!!! Can i use your quote as evdience in court:giggling: :giggling:

[KAding]

If a muslim goes from this country to fight agaisnt a british troop that's not allowed. If a muslim goes to fight an ameican that is fine.

Are you sure about that!!!!!!!! Can i use your quote as evdience in court:giggling: :giggling:

Well, the UK and US are in the same coalition in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

When was the last time anyone was charged with treason btw?

[AvarAllahNoor]

If a muslim goes from this country to fight agaisnt a british troop that's not allowed. If a muslim goes to fight an ameican that is fine.

Are you sure about that!!!!!!!! Can i use your quote as evdience in court:giggling: :giggling:

That's my opinion not of the WORLD!!

Btw, you heading out soon are you?

[QuranStudy]

Americans (non-Jews) are more willing to fight for Israel than for America.

[Ghazi]

:sl:

Not suprised, it makes sense a jew would want to fight for Isreal since they share a common religion.

[Keltoi]

Americans (non-Jews) are more willing to fight for Israel than for America.

lol..and what led you to this brilliant conclusion?

[QuranStudy]

Why dont Muslims fight for Hezbollah?

[QuranStudy]

lol..and what led you to this brilliant conclusion?

lol? Do you know that there were American soldiers that were fighting alongside Israel against Hezbollah? The politicians who dont support their troops in Iraq support the Israelis in Lebanon.

[Keltoi]

lol? Do you know that there were American soldiers that were fighting alongside Israel against Hezbollah? The politicians who dont support their troops in Iraq support the Israelis in Lebanon.

Yes, quite a few U.S. soldiers and citizens are in the Israeli military. Not sure how that equals your rather silly statement that "Americans would rather fight for Israel than America".

[AvarAllahNoor]

Americans (non-Jews) are more willing to fight for Israel than for America.

Is that because they don't choose to fight for an illegal war?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Why dont Muslims fight for Hezbollah?

Hpw do you know they don't? (I take it you mean British muslims?)

[Geronimo]

Yes, quite a few U.S. soldiers and citizens are in the Israeli military. Not sure how that equals your rather silly statement that "Americans would rather fight for Israel than America".

That's because they hold dual citizenships. No foul there

[Geronimo]

But not against their own countrymen...

Am I in the twilight zone? Why can't the rest of the people here note this difference?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Am I in the twilight zone? Why can't the rest of the people here note this difference?

They think fighting for anything that involves muslim, is a good enough reason. I just don't see it that way.

[wilberhum]

I will never understand the attitude that if a Muslim does it, it is good. If a Jew does the same thing it is bad.
Can that be anything but a double standard?

[Isaac]

no one is saying that, if a jew does its bad, and if a muslim does its good. however its more like if a muslim does its bad if a jew does its good. now do you understand that or does it need spelling out. try to read before you rush into a frenzy.;D