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lavikor201
08-29-2006, 02:53 PM
Arab writers are beginning to lift the veil on what really happened in Lebanon.
Who won the war?
BY AMIR TAHERI
Friday, August 25, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT
The way much of the Western media tells the story, Hezbollah won a great victory against Israel and the U.S., healed the Sunni-Shiite rift, and boosted the Iranian mullahs' claim to leadership of the Muslim world. Portraits of Hassan Nasrallah, the junior mullah who leads the Lebanese branch of this pan-Shiite movement, have adorned magazine covers in the West, hammering in the message that this child of the Khomeinist revolution is the new hero of the mythical "Arab Street."

Probably because he watches a lot of CNN, Iran's "Supreme Guide," Ali Khamenei, also believes in "a divine victory." Last week he asked 205 members of his Islamic Majlis to send Mr. Nasrallah a message, congratulating him for his "wise and far-sighted leadership of the Ummah that produced the great victory in Lebanon."

By controlling the flow of information from Lebanon throughout the conflict, and help from all those who disagree with U.S. policies for different reasons, Hezbollah may have won the information war in the West. In Lebanon, the Middle East and the broader Muslim space, however, the picture is rather different.


Let us start with Lebanon.
Immediately after the U.N.-ordained ceasefire started, Hezbollah organized a series of firework shows, accompanied by the distribution of fruits and sweets, to celebrate its victory. Most Lebanese, however, finding the exercise indecent, stayed away. The largest "victory march" in south Beirut, Hezbollah's stronghold, attracted just a few hundred people.

Initially Hezbollah had hesitated between declaring victory and going into mourning for its "martyrs." The latter course would have been more in harmony with Shiite traditions centered on the cult of Imam Hussain's martyrdom in 680 A.D. Some members of Hezbollah wished to play the martyrdom card so that they could accuse Israel, and through it the U.S., of war crimes. They knew that it was easier for Shiites, brought up in a culture of eternal victimhood, to cry over an imagined calamity than laugh in the joy of a claimed victory.

Politically, however, Hezbollah had to declare victory for a simple reason: It had to pretend that the death and desolation it had provoked had been worth it. A claim of victory was Hezbollah's shield against criticism of a strategy that had led Lebanon into war without the knowledge of its government and people. Mr. Nasrallah alluded to this in television appearances, calling on those who criticized him for having triggered the war to shut up because "a great strategic victory" had been won.

The tactic worked for a day or two. However, it did not silence the critics, who have become louder in recent days. The leaders of the March 14 movement, which has a majority in the Lebanese Parliament and government, have demanded an investigation into the circumstances that led to the war, a roundabout way of accusing Hezbollah of having provoked the tragedy. Prime Minister Fuad Siniora has made it clear that he would not allow Hezbollah to continue as a state within the state. Even Michel Aoun, a maverick Christian leader and tactical ally of Hezbollah, has called for the Shiite militia to disband.

Mr. Nasrallah followed his claim of victory with what is known as the "Green Flood"(Al-sayl al-akhdhar). This refers to the massive amounts of crisp U.S. dollar notes that Hezbollah is distributing among Shiites in Beirut and the south. The dollars from Iran are ferried to Beirut via Syria and distributed through networks of militants. Anyone who can prove that his home was damaged in the war receives $12,000, a tidy sum in wartorn Lebanon.


The Green Flood has been unleashed to silence criticism of Mr. Nasrallah and his masters in Tehran. But the trick does not seem to be working. "If Hezbollah won a victory, it was a Pyrrhic one," says Walid Abi-Mershed, a leading Lebanese columnist. "They made Lebanon pay too high a price--for which they must be held accountable."


Hezbollah is also criticized from within the Lebanese Shiite community, which accounts for some 40% of the population. Sayyed Ali al-Amin, the grand old man of Lebanese Shiism, has broken years of silence to criticize Hezbollah for provoking the war, and called for its disarmament. In an interview granted to the Beirut An-Nahar, he rejected the claim that Hezbollah represented the whole of the Shiite community. "I don't believe Hezbollah asked the Shiite community what they thought about [starting the] war," Mr. al-Amin said. "The fact that the masses [of Shiites] fled from the south is proof that they rejected the war. The Shiite community never gave anyone the right to wage war in its name."

There were even sharper attacks. Mona Fayed, a prominent Shiite academic in Beirut, wrote an article also published by An-Nahar last week. She asks: Who is a Shiite in Lebanon today? She provides a sarcastic answer: A Shiite is he who takes his instructions from Iran, terrorizes fellow believers into silence, and leads the nation into catastrophe without consulting anyone. Another academic, Zubair Abboud, writing in Elaph, a popular Arabic-language online newspaper, attacks Hezbollah as "one of the worst things to happen to Arabs in a long time." He accuses Mr. Nasrallah of risking Lebanon's existence in the service of Iran's regional ambitions.

Before he provoked the war, Mr. Nasrallah faced growing criticism not only from the Shiite community, but also from within Hezbollah. Some in the political wing expressed dissatisfaction with his overreliance on the movement's military and security apparatus. Speaking on condition of anonymity, they described Mr. Nasrallah's style as "Stalinist" and pointed to the fact that the party's leadership council (shura) has not held a full session in five years. Mr. Nasrallah took all the major decisions after clearing them with his Iranian and Syrian contacts, and made sure that, on official visits to Tehran, he alone would meet Iran's "Supreme Guide," Ali Khamenei.

Mr. Nasrallah justified his style by claiming that involving too many people in decision-making could allow "the Zionist enemy" to infiltrate the movement. Once he had received the Iranian green light to provoke the war, Mr. Nasrallah acted without informing even the two Hezbollah ministers in the Siniora cabinet or the 12 Hezbollah members of the Lebanese Parliament.

Mr. Nasrallah was also criticized for his acknowledgement of Ali Khamenei as Marjaa al-Taqlid (Source of Emulation), the highest theological authority in Shiism. Highlighting his bay'aah (allegiance), Mr. Nasrallah kisses the man's hand each time they meet. Many Lebanese Shiites resent this because Mr. Khamenei, a powerful politician but a lightweight in theological terms, is not recognized as Marjaa al-Taqlid in Iran itself. The overwhelming majority of Lebanese Shiites regard Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, in Iraq, or Ayatollah Muhammad-Hussein Fadhlallah, in Beirut, as their "Source of Emulation."

Some Lebanese Shiites also question Mr. Nasrallah's strategy of opposing Prime Minister Siniora's "Project for Peace," and instead advancing an Iranian-backed "Project of Defiance." The coalition led by Mr. Siniora wants to build Lebanon into a haven of peace in the heart of a turbulent region. His critics dismiss this as a plan "to create a larger Monaco." Mr. Nasrallah's "Project of Defiance," however, is aimed at turning Lebanon into the frontline of Iranian defenses in a war of civilizations between Islam (led by Tehran) and the "infidel," under American leadership. "The choice is between the beach and the bunker," says Lebanese scholar Nadim Shehadeh. There is evidence that a majority of Lebanese Shiites would prefer the beach.


There was a time when Shiites represented an underclass of dirt-poor peasants in the south and lumpen elements in Beirut. Over the past 30 years, however, that picture has changed. Money sent from Shiite immigrants in West Africa (where they dominate the diamond trade), and in the U.S. (especially Michigan), has helped create a prosperous middle class of Shiites more interested in the good life than martyrdom à la Imam Hussain. This new Shiite bourgeoisie dreams of a place in the mainstream of Lebanese politics and hopes to use the community's demographic advantage as a springboard for national leadership. Hezbollah, unless it ceases to be an instrument of Iranian policies, cannot realize that dream.


The list of names of those who never endorsed Hezbollah, or who broke with it after its Iranian connections became too apparent, reads like a Who's Who of Lebanese Shiism. It includes, apart from the al-Amins, families such as the al-As'ad, the Osseiran, the al-Khalil, the Hamadah, the Murtadha, the Sharafeddin, the Fadhlallah, the Mussawis, the Hussainis, the Shamsuddin and the Ata'allahs.

Far from representing the Lebanese national consensus, Hezbollah is a sectarian group backed by a militia that is trained, armed and controlled by Iran. In the words of Hossein Shariatmadari, editor of the Iranian daily Kayhan, "Hezbollah is 'Iran in Lebanon.' " In the 2004 municipal elections, Hezbollah won some 40% of the votes in the Shiite areas, the rest going to its rival Amal (Hope) movement and independent candidates. In last year's general election, Hezbollah won only 12 of the 27 seats allocated to Shiites in the 128-seat National Assembly--despite making alliances with Christian and Druze parties and spending vast sums of Iranian money to buy votes.
Hezbollah's position is no more secure in the broader Arab world, where it is seen as an Iranian tool rather than as the vanguard of a new Nahdha (Awakening), as the Western media claim. To be sure, it is still powerful because it has guns, money and support from Iran, Syria and Hate America International Inc. But the list of prominent Arab writers, both Shiite and Sunni, who have exposed Hezbollah for what it is--a Khomeinist Trojan horse--would be too long for a single article. They are beginning to lift the veil and reveal what really happened in Lebanon.
Having lost more than 500 of its fighters, and with almost all of its medium-range missiles destroyed, Hezbollah may find it hard to sustain its claim of victory. "Hezbollah won the propaganda war because many in the West wanted it to win as a means of settling score with the United States," says Egyptian columnist Ali al-Ibrahim. "But the Arabs have become wise enough to know TV victory from real victory."

oj
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sert
08-29-2006, 02:55 PM
and your point is?
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lavikor201
08-29-2006, 03:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sert
and your point is?
Read the article. It clearly explains the point. :giggling:
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sert
08-29-2006, 03:25 PM
lol ok

seems like hizbollah still won to me tho, i can't see any victory for isreal what so ever!
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lavikor201
08-29-2006, 03:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sert
lol ok

seems like hizbollah still won to me tho, i can't see any victory for isreal what so ever!
Other than the fact that they killed hundreds of hezbollah fighters got UN troops in Lebanon, and have Kofi Annan demanding the soldiers release for no prisoner exchange. Oh yeah hezbollah won! Look at there neighborhoods! :p
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sert
08-29-2006, 03:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Other than the fact that they killed hundreds of hezbollah fighters got UN troops in Lebanon, and have Kofi Annan demanding the soldiers release for no prisoner exchange. Oh yeah hezbollah won! Look at there neighborhoods! :p
well to be fair, hizbullah were by far the weaker force, and yet still managed to kill many isreali soliders, more then a 100 i believe. and ontop of that israel killed lots of innocent civilians, in comparision to hizbollah, which can never be claimed as victory!
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lavikor201
08-29-2006, 03:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sert
well to be fair, hizbullah were by far the weaker force, and yet still managed to kill many isreali soliders, more then a 100 i believe. and ontop of that israel killed lots of innocent civilians, in comparision to hizbollah, which can never be claimed as victory!
Very true. But how do we know how many hezbollah fighters were killed? A civilian is someone not dressed in a military uniform. Hezbollah fighters did not dress in a certain uniform. They blended in with the innocent. A wise but deadly tactic for the ones around them.
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sert
08-29-2006, 03:45 PM
yes but you have to understand that they aren't a proper army, so why should they wear uniforms? anyway isreal should not traget roads, then tell the civilains to leave, how ridiculous is that, they traped the civilians inside the cities, then say 'hey we told them to leave, and they didn't listen, so its ok we kill 40 children' that is just plain evil!
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Kidman
08-29-2006, 05:22 PM
Hezbollah clearly won... and they still have not given up the prisoners. Israel invades Lebanon and ends up leaving with their heads down... and they are revolting against their own government saying that they did not prepare enough for the war.

Also... whether you agree or not, Hezbollah has to announce each Martyr that died... that number did not go over 100... whereas Israel claims they killed a lot more than 100 Hezbollah to make their cause of killing so many innocent civilians look more appropriate.

Hezbollah is not an organization just anyone can join, you will have to go through training, you will be watched upon where you go, what you do, If you go to mosque, if your a family person... etc... That is also why they are not to mingle around with civilians, 1st, they do not know who they can trust or what not, second, they wont want to put them in danger.

Kidman
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Woodrow
08-29-2006, 06:02 PM
Sadly war is not a soccor game. It has no winners. It only has one team, the human team. All of us suffer when any member of the team is harmed.

The aftermath of war is a broken playing field with the lose of loved ones and the lose of potential loved ones. Each time we view any person as an enemy, we are hating one of Allah(swt) most beautifull creations. The desire to harm another person, is a very destructive desire.

How can either side claim any victory when hate still exists, homes are ruined and lives can not be replaiced. Not one thing has been gained, not one new friend has been made, not one friendly agreement has been made.
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lavikor201
08-29-2006, 06:20 PM
Also... whether you agree or not, Hezbollah has to announce each Martyr that died... that number did not go over 100... whereas Israel claims they killed a lot more than 100 Hezbollah to make their cause of killing so many innocent civilians look more appropriate.
Oh really? Hezbollah also aims to not kill Muslims? Go look at Israel and see how that turned out.

Hezbollah is not an organization just anyone can join, you will have to go through training, you will be watched upon where you go, what you do, If you go to mosque, if your a family person... etc... That is also why they are not to mingle around with civilians, 1st, they do not know who they can trust or what not, second, they wont want to put them in danger.
You seem to know a lot about Hezbollah... Do you know each hezbollah fighter persoanlly?

Hezbollah clearly won... and they still have not given up the prisoners.
Israel has the UN in Lebanon now. But whatever. I have never been one to stop a cocky enemy. It eventually leads to there downfall. Hopefully Hezbollah shares the same opinions as you do.
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Kidman
08-29-2006, 08:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Oh really? Hezbollah also aims to not kill Muslims? Go look at Israel and see how that turned out.
what's your point? Of course they are not trying to kill muslims, and they aim not to kill innocent non-muslims as well, but a war with this magnitude, of course you are going to have casualties... but if you look at the facts and the numbers, you will see that their main aim was to kill Israeli militia, and that's what they did. Although there were a few innocent civilians that died, which is a shame for them (regardless of being muslim or not), that was not their aim. What we were talking about was the amount that they count as Hezbollah members that died, and how they have to announce it to the public and to the family.

You seem to know a lot about Hezbollah... Do you know each hezbollah fighter persoanlly?
What are you, CIA? Don't worry how i know what, you can believe me if you want. Obviously you saw that they had a very strategic plan and suffered few casualties against a 1st class Israeli (funded by U.S) military.


Yes, Lebanon and Israel both suffored a great deal, and you can't really call it a win... but if you look at the objective, Israel came in to destroy Hezbollah and get back their soldiers, and didn't succeed. On the other hand, Hezbollah still has Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails and their actions of taking prisoners to make indirect negociations for exchange has not come yet.

None has met their objective yet, but if you look just at the reason for the war, it was because Israel wanted their soldiers and wanted to get rid of Hezbollah, because they couldn't do that and went back, the war is over and Hezbollah remains victorious in that case.

But the destruction is otherwise. I know people who have families in Lebanon and they tell the story about how a lot of electricity is down... which means a lot of their food and meat are rottoning inside the empty homes, and animals have made their way in and gone through a lot of their food, and use their home as bathroom... and it's just a terrible mess. The schools and colleges are shut down, and still it's hard to get food and supplies to the south.

Inshallah they will overcome this tragedy that Israel caused.

Kidman
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 08:34 PM
and they aim not to kill innocent non-muslims as well, but a war with this magnitude
Oh really. I guess the constant rockets aimed at civilian centers were accidents. :heated: Do you think we are all that dumb to buy that statement you made?

Obviously you saw that they had a very strategic plan
They have had years to entrench themselves near civilians and bunker up.

Inshallah they will overcome this tragedy that Israel caused.
That statement shows your lack of understanding for the conflict. If Hezbollah did not capture the Israeli soldiers this never would have happend. Therefore Hezbollah is to blame for all the destruction they have brought upon Lebanon by instigating Israel.
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 08:49 PM
This sums everything up bests:

http://israelfails.ytmnd.com/
Reply

Vishnu
08-29-2006, 08:53 PM
It is impossible to know how many Hezbollah actually died. They dress like innocent so we will never know who was in the rubble. An innocent man, or someone firing rockets at schools in israel.
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snakelegs
08-29-2006, 08:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Sadly war is not a soccor game. It has no winners. It only has one team, the human team. All of us suffer when any member of the team is harmed.

The aftermath of war is a broken playing field with the lose of loved ones and the lose of potential loved ones. Each time we view any person as an enemy, we are hating one of Allah(swt) most beautifull creations. The desire to harm another person, is a very destructive desire.

How can either side claim any victory when hate still exists, homes are ruined and lives can not be replaiced. Not one thing has been gained, not one new friend has been made, not one friendly agreement has been made.
Ah.....Sanity! like a breath of fresh air.
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Kidman
08-29-2006, 08:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vishnu
Oh really. I guess the constant rockets aimed at civilian centers were accidents. :heated: Do you think we are all that dumb to buy that statement you made?
It was not an accident. Wow... i have to repeat myself again and again during these dialogs. Hezbollah mainly aimed at government buildings... they couldn't really aim at the freaken advanced war-planes that Israel was using to kill the civilians! So, in turn they shot their rockets in civilian centers, after most people in that area knew that it was coming. So these civilians have bunkers to hide out in, and a lot of them left the area to go down south to a safer place. If you see, they didn't kill that many civilians, and cause a much greater damage to the Israeli economy, which was their goal in all of this. Even reports show, that Israeli civilians were preparred for the attacks, and knew what time Hezbollah attacks, and they had sirons that went off, and it was during certain hours. Not like Israel, who attacks out of nowhere, giving no warning, killing so many children!!!!

Yes, much dua for the civilians that died, regardless of nationality or religion, but if they really aimed at civilians Hezbollah could've hit tons, obviously by the numbers you can prove that they aimed only to destroy buildings and so forth to cause Israel to lose money, as that was Hezbollah's only way to fight since Israel was fighting with overhead planes and was too afraid to employ their ground force. Till later of course, thats when they got their @sses handed to them.

That statement shows your lack of understanding for the conflict. If Hezbollah did not capture the Israeli soldiers this never would have happend. Therefore Hezbollah is to blame for all the destruction they have brought upon Lebanon by instigating Israel.
Wow, you sound like a child. So since Israel has a bigger army, they can do whatever they want. Take innocent Lebanese civilians prisoners, not listen when told to give them back, but when Hezbollah reacts to try to get their civilians back, Israel can go and bomb a whole country... and get away with the murder of over 1,000 innocent civilians; over 300 being children. Displacing over 750,000 people, people living without electricity, water, food, supplies.

That's like me stealing a piece of candy from you, and you taking out a gun and shooting me in the head... then blaming me. Even though you stole a whole bag of my candy last halloween or something like that. You get the picture i hope.

Kidman
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Kidman
08-29-2006, 09:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vishnu
It is impossible to know how many Hezbollah actually died.
Ummm... not true buddy. Hezbollah keeps strict regulations on their organization... so they know who, where, what, and how each one of them dies (God forbid). And they must announce it within 3 days and have a proper islamic barial for that person.

Kidman
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Allah-creation
08-29-2006, 09:31 PM
i think iseal is the one who started the war, becuase if They would actually start a war for Just TWO captured civilians then they clearly started it. I mean did they not think they would lose more then TWO civilians?
Anyways they made a stupid choice and now the hole world saw how evil they are.

isreal wanted to invade lebanon for years! IF you look back at history, and not listen to lies on CNN.
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 09:32 PM
I'm sure most would agree (from the majority from BOTH sides) that Israel won nothing from the war. So, will they give a real effort to get the soldiers back?
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 09:34 PM
think iseal is the one who started the war, becuase if They would actually start a war for Just TWO captured civilians then they clearly started it.
What! Are you kidding? Use your brain man. It is irrelevant how the violence was started. It was that the VIOLENCE WAS STARTED by Hezbollah.

Israel won nothing from the war.
The UN will soon be in southern Lebanon.
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 09:35 PM
It was that the VIOLENCE WAS STARTED by Hezbollah.
No, the violence started after Israel decided to thump their chests like apes and bomb innocent Lebanese kids/civilians.
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 09:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
No, the violence started after Israel decided to thump their chests like apes and bomb innocent Lebanese kids/civilians.
So you do not define killing 8 and kidnapping 2 as violence? :rollseyes

hezbollah and there rockets fired at Israel deserve just as much bashing but none of you seem to care about that. Typical hypocrisy.
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 09:40 PM
So you do not define killing 8 and kidnapping 2 as violence?
LOL, like George Galloway said "Please try to extend your memory span beyond a couple of weeks."
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Allah-creation
08-29-2006, 09:40 PM
And did they think they would solve the problem by losing more isreals in war and cuase more hate? I mean starting a way for to camputed civilians is just very stupid. And one thing i forgot to mention, Hezboallah camptured those to israels civilians only to negotiate. I dont think they expected isreal to start a war for a dumn reason.
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 09:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
LOL, like George Galloway said "Please try to extend your memory span beyond a couple of weeks."
Your right... we should go farther and expand it a couple of years!

Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include:
  • a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
  • the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
  • the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;
  • two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 09:48 PM
Your right... we should go farther and expand it a couple of years!

Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include:

* a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
* the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
* the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;
* two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, you're painting of Hezbollah as terrorists is futile (only 6 nations consider them terrorist). Hezbollah are freedom fighters without whom Israel wouldve occupied southern Lebanon today.

I could post all the terrorist activities by Israel, but then this site would run out of bandwidth.
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 10:02 PM
Your right.

Terrorists don't bomb jewish centers killing 95....

Terrorists don't bomb embassys....

Terrorists don't Hijack planes...

What was I thinking... :rollseyes
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 10:06 PM
So....is Bhagat Singh a terrorist?
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
So....is Bhagat Singh a terrorist?
Yes in some ways he was. Just like Hezbollah. I am an advocate for peace, not war. Gandhi is my hero, not Singh.
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 10:11 PM
Yes in some ways he was. Just like Hezbollah.
Not in my eyes. He's a freedom fighter for India and he and people like him will always have my respect.
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 10:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Not in my eyes. He's a freedom fighter for India and he and people like him will always have my respect.
People who throw bombs to accomplish there goals will never have my full respect. Gandhi has my full respect. But then again you sound like a teenager who finds glory in war and death. Grow up a bit.
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QuranStudy
08-29-2006, 10:20 PM
People who throw bombs to accomplish there goals will never have my full respect. Gandhi has my full respect. But then again you sound like a teenager who finds glory in war and death. Grow up a bit.
I am sure than most Indians consider Bhagat Singh a freedom fighter. Grow up?? Tell that to Indian professors who teach the history of Bhagat Singh with pride. There is always glory when people are willing to die for what they believe in. People like you will never be grateful to those who sacrifice their lives so that you can have a national identity.

I'm sorry that I went off topic and will only makes posts from here on pertaining to the topic of discussion.
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Vishnu
08-29-2006, 11:19 PM
People like you will never be grateful to those who sacrifice their lives so that you can have a national identity.
So what country are you from. I remember reading America somewhere... Do you take great pride in George Washington? Do you have an American national identity?

I will always believe peace is the right awnser, and oppose those who start conflicts.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-30-2006, 12:40 AM
You guys are forgettin that that this has been goin on for decades. Israel didnt jus invade lebanon now. its been like that! There have been clashes between lebanon and israel for quite some time now. If ur gunna ask for proof...all i got is a video. ehh u prolly wont like it..some of u at least.
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therebbe
08-30-2006, 12:43 AM
You all might want to stay on topic... the topic is the article...
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
08-30-2006, 12:45 AM
lol well u guys went more off topic den me...but ur right >.<
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Zulkiflim
08-30-2006, 05:23 AM
Salaam,

All this thread is nothing but a scam..

What is happenign in Israel now?

With their leaders?

We will be seeing more and more article blasting the enemies of Israel for all the fault on why they lost the war....but they just dont want to face the truth..

THEY LOST DUE TO ARROGANCE ANF PRIDE...they do not want to make peace they want other to suffer for thm to have peace.

They do not want strong neighbours,they want to be the ONLY strong one in that area.

And so hezbollah has shown that might does not matter.
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Obi-Wan
08-30-2006, 11:29 AM
Amir Taheri is the guy who broke the "Jews to wear special clothes" in Iran story. That story turned out to be entirely bogus, and was shown to be untrue within hours of it breaking.

I liked this blog's analysis of it:
Taheri-ng It Up AGAIN!
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therebbe
08-30-2006, 02:24 PM
And what about all the news reporters that agreed with him, especially in the Middle East?
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Obi-Wan
09-01-2006, 03:44 PM
therebbe,
Which news reporters that agreed with him?
Are you talking about the thread-stroy or the Iran-clothing story?
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lavikor201
09-05-2006, 07:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
therebbe,
Which news reporters that agreed with him?
Are you talking about the thread-stroy or the Iran-clothing story?
At the end they give the names of some reporters.
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