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View Full Version : Holocaust survivors invite Iranian President to see the death camps for himself



ManchesterFolk
08-30-2006, 09:59 PM
Holocaust survivors on Wednesday invited Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to tour the Nazi death camps at Auschwitz and called on the leader in Tehran to invite survivors to a planned conference on the subject of the Holocaust in Iran.

Noach Flug, head of the Center of Organizations of Holocaust Survivors in Israel (COHSI) offered to host the Iranian leader as a guest of the organization in Auschwitz.

Tehran is set hold a conference on "the reasons for anti-Semitism in Europe, the Holocaust and Zionism" in December. Flug said that the presence of survivors at the event could facilitate a more serious debate on the issue.


Flug, a survivor of Auschwitz, heads an international organization that includes Jewish and non-Jewish survivors of the Holocaust from Poland, Hungary, France, the U.K. and U.S.

The survivor leader told Ahmadinejad that ever since the Iranian leader took office, the group had been closely monitoring his statements and found him to be a "serial Holocaust denier."

Flug also mentioned Ahmadinejad's letter to German leader Angela Merkel, which claimed that the Holocaust had been fabricated by the allied forces to allow Germany to save face after the war.

"This is not the first time you have questioned the murder of six million Jews at the hands of the Nazis," Flug added, "I have reached the conclusion that you lack knowledge on the matter."

Flug says he is confident that the Iranian leader's hatred toward Jews will decrease and his will for peace will grow stronger after hearing what the survivors have to say.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/756755.html
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lavikor201
08-30-2006, 10:55 PM
I doubt he will go. Wouldn't want to actually go see the camps that he claims aren't true.
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 12:27 AM
I doubt he will go. Wouldn't want to actually go see the camps that he claims aren't true.
I believe he has much better things to do.
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Vishnu
08-31-2006, 12:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
I believe he has much better things to do.
Like what? Sit around and deny it ever happend all day?
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 12:42 AM
Like what? Sit around and deny it ever happend all day?
Is that what presidents do? I thought presidents serve their people.
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brainiac
08-31-2006, 01:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Is that what presidents do? ...


That one does. ;D
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Isaac
08-31-2006, 01:23 PM
Like think about how to look after his people when the west are trying to put sanctions on his country. Like think about defending his nation from threats by the west. Like think abouut equipping his armie with the best possible weapons incase of a possible attack. Like do what a leader normally does, and think about his country before thinkinking about others. Like looking after his own backyard before thinking about trying to bring democracy to others. Like beinga leader, rather than an evil dictator. A leader, is he that puts his people first.
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 01:42 PM
That one does.
One word: Bush.
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Trumble
08-31-2006, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Isaac
Like think about how to look after his people when the west are trying to put sanctions on his country. Like think about defending his nation from threats by the west.
There would be no possibility whatever of sanctions if he stopped trying to develop nuclear weapons. Despite the Iranian spin that is quite possible, while maintaining a peaceful nuclear power program, if the appropriate inspection regime (as in the case of Brazil, for example) is agreed to. He refuses to do so.

If there is any "threat" to the Iranian people, Ahmadinejad is directly responsible for it.
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 02:22 PM
There would be no possibility whatever of sanctions if he stopped trying to develop nuclear weapons.
What evidence do you have that Iran is making nuclear weapons? Bush lies people dies.

Despite the Iranian spin that is quite possible, while maintaining a peaceful nuclear power program, if the appropriate inspection regime (as in the case of Brazil, for example) is agreed to. He refuses to do so.
In the mean time, the US has been giving billions of dollars to India to help with their nuclear program. India is a non-signatory of the NP Treaty, along with Israel and Pakistan, while Iran is a signatory of the Treaty and has passed all inspections with flying colors. Every signatory is entitled to a nuclear energy program, as a result 35 countries currently have nuclear power. Iran just wants to make it 36. If Bush was really serious about clamping down on nuclear programs, then he would have 35 countries to worry about first since they are all ahead of Iran in their nuclear programs. Of course, we all know that this all comes from Israel, who wants to keep their 400-0 nuke advantage over all of the middle east. Israel doesn't want any deterrence when actually deterrence would be the best thing to happen to the middle east, especially when you have whacko's like Ariel Sharon saying.......

"the arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches"
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AvarAllahNoor
08-31-2006, 02:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Vishnu
Like what? Sit around and deny it ever happend all day?
Vishnu Avtar, why would he go, when he knows it exists. He's just trying to get people (jews) as irate! It's working too!
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AvarAllahNoor
08-31-2006, 02:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
What evidence do you have that Iran is making nuclear weapons? Bush lies people dies.



In the mean time, the US has been giving billions of dollars to India to help with their nuclear program. India is a non-signatory of the NP Treaty, along with Israel and Pakistan, while Iran is a signatory of the Treaty and has passed all inspections with flying colors. Every signatory is entitled to a nuclear energy program, as a result 35 countries currently have nuclear power. Iran just wants to make it 36. If Bush was really serious about clamping down on nuclear programs, then he would have 35 countries to worry about first since they are all ahead of Iran in their nuclear programs. Of course, we all know that this all comes from Israel, who wants to keep their 400-0 nuke advantage over all of the middle east. Israel doesn't want any deterrence when actually deterrence would be the best thing to happen to the middle east, especially when you have whacko's like Ariel Sharon saying.......

"the arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches"
Bushy has a need for India, unlike Iran! He needs more Oil! There's a shortage of oil and Iran is next for 'Liberating'
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 04:02 PM
Bushy has a need for India, unlike Iran! He needs more Oil! There's a shortage of oil and Iran is next for 'Liberating'
Good point.
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Trumble
08-31-2006, 04:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by QuranStudy
What evidence do you have that Iran is making nuclear weapons?
As I said, Iran will not agree to the IAEA inspections that would confirm their nuclear program is only being used for power generation purposes . No further evidence is required. The only possible motive for such refusal is an intent to develop nuclear weapons.
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Keltoi
08-31-2006, 05:08 PM
Back on topic, Iran's president has about as much interest in visiting death camps as Bush does talking to him on international T.V.
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 07:07 PM
As I said, Iran will not agree to the IAEA inspections that would confirm their nuclear program is only being used for power generation purposes . No further evidence is required. The only possible motive for such refusal is an intent to develop nuclear weapons.
Did you care to read the stuff I mentioned below that quote:

In the mean time, the US has been giving billions of dollars to India to help with their nuclear program. India is a non-signatory of the NP Treaty, along with Israel and Pakistan, while Iran is a signatory of the Treaty and has passed all inspections with flying colors. Every signatory is entitled to a nuclear energy program, as a result 35 countries currently have nuclear power. Iran just wants to make it 36. If Bush was really serious about clamping down on nuclear programs, then he would have 35 countries to worry about first since they are all ahead of Iran in their nuclear programs. Of course, we all know that this all comes from Israel, who wants to keep their 400-0 nuke advantage over all of the middle east. Israel doesn't want any deterrence when actually deterrence would be the best thing to happen to the middle east, especially when you have whacko's like Ariel Sharon saying.......

"the arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches"
As far as the IAEA is concerned, this is worth reading:

In February 2003 Mohamed ElBaradei traveled to Iran with a team of inspectors to investigate Iran's nuclear program. By November, Dr. ElBaradei stated that there was "no evidence" that Iran was pursuing nuclear weapons. On December 18, 2003 Iran signed the Additional Protocol at the IAEA headquarters in Vienna, and acted in accord with its provisions pending completion of ratification of the protocol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna..._Energy_Agency

Back on topic, Iran's president has about as much interest in visiting death camps as Bush does talking to him on international T.V.
That is a very legit analogy.
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ManchesterFolk
08-31-2006, 07:12 PM
Mohamed ElBaradei
Mohamed ElBaradei says Iran is not going after Nukes? :giggling: Mohamed said this? :rollseyes Are you sure Mohamed is a fair judge? ;D ;D ;D

Mohamed ElBaradei says Iran has no Nuclear ambitions... :giggling: Sorry Mohamed I don't buy it....

Do you know who Mr. Mohamed is or the contreversy around him?
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QuranStudy
08-31-2006, 07:16 PM
Mohamed ElBaradei says Iran is not going after Nukes? Mohamed said this? Are you sure Mohamed is a fair judge?

Mohamed ElBaradei says Iran has no Nuclear ambitions... Sorry Mohamed I don't buy it....

Do you know who Mr. Mohamed is or the contreversy around him?
We need Colin Powell....
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AvarAllahNoor
08-31-2006, 07:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Back on topic, Iran's president has about as much interest in visiting death camps as Bush does talking to him on international T.V.
Lets get the rights to that TV show! They could do tha 'Presidents Special Big Brother' - Who's going to win? you decide...
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Muezzin
08-31-2006, 07:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Lets get the rights to that TV show! They could do tha 'Presidents Special Big Brother' - Who's going to win? you decide...
Castro Pwns All.

Well, it'd look good on a T-Shirt, maybe.

But on-topic, I seriously doubt the Iranian Pres will actually attend.
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AvarAllahNoor
08-31-2006, 07:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Mohamed ElBaradei says Iran is not going after Nukes? :giggling: Mohamed said this? :rollseyes Are you sure Mohamed is a fair judge? ;D ;D ;D

Mohamed ElBaradei says Iran has no Nuclear ambitions... :giggling: Sorry Mohamed I don't buy it....

Do you know who Mr. Mohamed is or the contreversy around him?
Even if they did make nukes, what does it matter, plenty of other countries that have them! - Go harrassing them!

They said something similar about Iraq, look where that led them? So forgive me for not giving a monkeys a*** about what Iran 'may' do or 'may not' do!!
:rollseyes
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AvarAllahNoor
08-31-2006, 07:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Castro Pwns All.

Well, it'd look good on a T-Shirt, maybe.

But on-topic, I seriously doubt the Iranian Pres will actually attend.
He still alive and kicking?
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Eric H
08-31-2006, 08:35 PM
Greetings and peace to you all,

I believe that the Iranian President should agree to nuclear inspectors visiting his country. But only on the condition that George Bush agrees to the weapons inspectors going through all American sites first.

I also feel that these holocaust survivors should visit Palestinian refugee camps first, and see the devastation first hand that Israel is doing now. They should also travel through Lebanon to see what Israel has done there.

Only after they have seen this devestation for themselves should they ask the Iranian President to visit holocaust sites.

In the spirit of seeking justice and peace for all people

Eric
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Trumble
08-31-2006, 09:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
But only on the condition that George Bush agrees to the weapons inspectors going through all American sites first.
For what reason? What weapons do you believe the Americans might have that we don't know about, and would be forbidden by either treaty or international law?
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Eric H
08-31-2006, 09:42 PM
Greetings in peace Trumble;
For what reason? What weapons do you believe the Americans might have that we don't know about, and would be forbidden by either treaty or international law
This seems very strange just because America has the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world, no other country has the right to ask for an inspection of America’s weapons. They are the only country to have used these weapons in war. If America wants to demand that other countries be inspected they should first open up their own doors for an inspection.:rant:

If America can have these weapons through international laws and treaties, then they should give other countries the same rights.:rant:

This is just a personal rant, please feel free to ignore it.:rant:

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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lavikor201
08-31-2006, 10:17 PM
This seems very strange just because America has the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world
Wrong. Russia does.

If America wants to demand that other countries be inspected they should first open up their own doors for an inspection.
Americas Nuclear Arsenal has been inspected before, and they are currently reducing there Nuclear weapons along with Russia and other powers, while Iran is increasing them.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth
Praying for peace on earth and supporting Iran getting Nuclear Weapons? Talk about a contradiction.
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Trumble
08-31-2006, 10:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
This seems very strange just because America has the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world, no other country has the right to ask for an inspection of America’s weapons. They are the only country to have used these weapons in war. If America wants to demand that other countries be inspected they should first open up their own doors for an inspection.
But as we already KNOW, and the Americans happily admit, that they have the "biggest nuclear arsenal in the world" what is the point of inspections to confirm the fact?! They are only relevant when the country concerned DENIES having such weapons.
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north_malaysian
09-01-2006, 01:39 AM
[BANANA]SAY NO TO NUCLEAR!!![/BANANA]

If Malaysia want to use nuclear for generating energy... I will walk out from this nation!!!

Ahmadinejad should go to Auschwitz and Olmert should go to Srebrenica.
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arabiyyah
09-01-2006, 01:46 AM
i think he uses it for bad things if he gets it. i dont think anyone should have nuclear bombs. i think all countries should not be allowed for the sake of our children!
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Eric H
09-01-2006, 02:01 AM
Greetings in peace arabiyyah; and welcome to the forum;
i think he uses it for bad things if he gets it. i dont think anyone should have nuclear bombs. i think all countries should not be allowed for the sake of our children
This has to be the ultimate reason why countries should not have any nuclear weapons.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth.

Eric
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Eric H
09-01-2006, 02:41 AM
Greetings in peace lavikor201;
Praying for peace on earth and supporting Iran getting Nuclear Weapons? Talk about a contradiction.
I am very sorry I have not expressed myself very well, I don’t agree with nuclear weapons at all, and arabiyyah has made the best point that all countries should give up nuclear weapons for the sake of all children.

If you lived in Iran then you might look at the recent history of Iraq and the fact of Saddam not complying with weapons inspectors leading to the invasion of Iraq. The threat of weapons inspectors can easily be viewed as the threat of on impending invasion of Iran.

If Mr Bush really wants Iran to have zero nuclear weapons then he should set the example and get rid of all America’s nuclear arsenal first. Even if America has reduced their stockpile they will still have considerably more than Iran.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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Eric H
09-01-2006, 02:55 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Trumble;

But as we already KNOW, and the Americans happily admit, that they have the "biggest nuclear arsenal in the world"
America might be happy to admit they have the biggest stockpile, but is the rest of the world happy?

Does everyone else want nuclear weapons too; so they can be happy?

They are only relevant when the country concerned DENIES having such weapons.
So if Iran had said, we have a hundred nuclear weapons; would Mr Bush have accepted this and left Iran in peace?

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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lavikor201
09-01-2006, 03:07 AM
Eric, I don't think you understand. We are talking about weapons inspections. Iran is in violation because they refuse to allow inspectors in the country.
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Eric H
09-01-2006, 04:02 AM
Greetings in peace lavikor201;
Eric, I don't think you understand. We are talking about weapons inspections. Iran is in violation because they refuse to allow inspectors in the country
I understand that Iran is in violation of international law regarding weapons inspectors, but I just disagree with the apparent motivation behind the need for weapons inspectors. Iraq has to be a very real reminder of what weapons inspectors can mean

If Iran let the weapons inspectors in and disarmed all their nuclear capability, would Mr Bush follow on and disarm all American weapons? Somehow I don't think he would.

If America wants Iran to disarm, then they should disarm first and set an example of trust, someone has to make the first move for peace in a peaceful way.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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Keltoi
09-01-2006, 01:24 PM
Iran has supported international terrorism for many years. Iran has bought missile technology from North Korea. Iran's president has voiced his belief that a neighboring country should be wiped off the map. All these reasons and many more are why people are concerned about Iran obtaining nuclear missiles. Anyone who believes Iran's nuclear research is intended for "peaceful energy" needs to have their head examined.
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QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 01:46 PM
Iran has supported international terrorism for many years.
So has US with Israel. If you gather the numbers, you'll see that Israelis killed more civilians that Hezbollah/Hamas put together by a wide margin. All this with weapon engraved "made in USA."

Iran has bought missile technology from North Korea.
Point being? Israel buys weapons from US on a regular basis.

Iran's president has voiced his belief that a neighboring country should be wiped off the map.
If you cared to see his explanation, he clearly said he was nothing more than regime change in Israel. It's very similar to what the US did in Iraq.

Anyone who believes Iran's nuclear research is intended for "peaceful energy" needs to have their head examined.
hmm....don't forget the double standard. If Israel can do it, so can Iran.
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lavikor201
09-01-2006, 07:17 PM
Point being? Israel buys weapons from US on a regular basis.
Do you know anythign about North Korea? The atrocities they have commited towards there people?

hmm....don't forget the double standard. If Israel can do it, so can Iran.
I wasn't aware Israel threatened countries with nukes like iran does.

I wan't aware Israel started ANY of the wars against its arab neighbors.

Arabs attacked Israel because they could not accept there being a Jewish state on what was jewish land thousnads of years before islam got it by WAR.

If you cared to see his explanation, he clearly said he was nothing more than regime change in Israel. It's very similar to what the US did in Iraq.
So you support regime changes then? Dont speak up against the US in Iraq if you support Iran wanting one.
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QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Do you know anythign about North Korea? The atrocities they have commited towards there people?
Do you know anything about the atrocities Israelis commit towards the Palestians? I am convinced that Israelis believe that Jewish blood is more valuable than Arab blood.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
I wasn't aware Israel threatened countries with nukes like iran does.
Then you must refer to the Israeli minister who threated to bomb Lebanon back to the stone ages.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
I wan't aware Israel started ANY of the wars against its arab neighbors.
LOL, you do know that Israel is the result of systematic takeover of other people's land, do you???

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Arabs attacked Israel because they could not accept there being a Jewish state on what was jewish land thousnads of years before islam got it by WAR.
Arabs detest Israel because they want back their home, where generations of their families lived before the immigrants drove them out.

format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
So you support regime changes then? Dont speak up against the US in Iraq if you support Iran wanting one.
I support regime changes. Saddam Hussein and Zionist Israel have alot in common (mass murder).
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lavikor201
09-01-2006, 07:43 PM
LOL, you do know that Israel is the result of systematic takeover of other people's land, do you???
Oh please. Israel has been Jewish Land thousands of years before Islam. muslims conquered it and kicked jews off there land to.

Arabs detest Israel because they want back their home, where generations of their families lived before the immigrants drove them out.
The immigrants drove them out? Jews were living there centuries before they were kicked out. its our land.

support regime changes. Saddam Hussein and Zionist Israel have alot in common (mass murder).
Compare the numbers. You must be kidding. Israel has not commited mass murder. What a dull statement.

Do you know anything about the atrocities Israelis commit towards the Palestians? I am convinced that Israelis believe that Jewish blood is more valuable than Arab blood.
I think only Arabs think that. You offer 1 soldier who is jewish for 400 arabs... your telling yourselves that 1 jew is worth 400 arabs when offering that pathetic trade.
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Kidman
09-01-2006, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace to you all,

I believe that the Iranian President should agree to nuclear inspectors visiting his country. But only on the condition that George Bush agrees to the weapons inspectors going through all American sites first.

I also feel that these holocaust survivors should visit Palestinian refugee camps first, and see the devastation first hand that Israel is doing now. They should also travel through Lebanon to see what Israel has done there.

Only after they have seen this devestation for themselves should they ask the Iranian President to visit holocaust sites.

In the spirit of seeking justice and peace for all people

Eric
Wooow... good post!
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QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
Oh please. Israel has been Jewish Land thousands of years before Islam. muslims conquered it and kicked jews off there land to.
Ah yes, that is why Israel is loaded with Jews with blue eyes and blond hair, right? Gimme a break. I'm not surprised that the majority of Jews in Israel are Khazarian Jews.

The immigrants drove them out? Jews were living there centuries before they were kicked out. its our land.
It was part of the Ottoman Empire before WW1. After the Holocaust, the immigrant Jews were determined to attain the "promise land" even if it meant killing and forming over a million refugees.

Compare the numbers. You must be kidding. Israel has not commited mass murder. What a dull statement.
So you've so low that you want to compare numbers? I expected better of you. Mass murder is mass murder. Comparing wont justify anything.

I think only Arabs think that. You offer 1 soldier who is jewish for 400 arabs... your telling yourselves that 1 jew is worth 400 arabs when offering that pathetic trade.
Most of the world thinks this (except Israel and Jewish-controlled United States). Do you want 400 Jews to be kidnapped so that a fair exchange is made then??
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lavikor201
09-01-2006, 08:05 PM
Most of the world thinks this (except Israel and Jewish-controlled United States). Do you want 400 Jews to be kidnapped so that a fair exchange is made then??
if 400 jews were kidnapped hezbollah would only release them for 10,000 arabs. because that is how they value life.

It was part of the Ottoman Empire before WW1.
Go study some middle east history. Jews have been living in israel since the exodus. long before islam or the quran. then islam conquered the holy land.... no the jews have taken it back. To be so ignorant to say that one nation taking another nation and establishing a state is bad... check your own history.

How did all these so called "MUSLIM COUNTRIES" become Muslim.... a lot more blood shed then israel has commited that is for sure!!!
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Isaac
09-01-2006, 08:11 PM
and the killing of over 1,000 innocent peoplewithin a month in lebabon is great show of value for life. pathetic how people can ignore the death of other. pure and utter disgust how some people value the life of the lebanese people, just because they are lebanese.
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ManchesterFolk
09-01-2006, 08:11 PM
How did all these so called "MUSLIM COUNTRIES" become Muslim.... a lot more blood shed then israel has commited that is for sure!!!
Wow. Great point.

and the killing of over 1,000 innocent peoplewithin a month in lebabon is great show of value
hezbollah used them as shields... they are the guilty party.
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QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 08:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lavikor201
if 400 jews were kidnapped hezbollah would only release them for 10,000 arabs. because that is how they value life.
Let's keep baseless speculation out of this. According to Israelis, 3 IDF soldiers were equivalent to 500 Arabs as see in the prisoner swap in 2000. If you want equality, let Hezzy kidnapp a couple of thousand more Israelis :D On a serious note, the majority of the 10,000+ prisoners were not even tried in court.

Go study some middle east history. Jews have been living in israel since the exodus. long before islam or the quran. then islam conquered the holy land.... no the jews have taken it back. To be so ignorant to say that one nation taking another nation and establishing a state is bad... check your own history.
1.) I find the Torah as false historical documentation for obvious reasons.
2.) I've checked my own history. Jews in Israel today are of European descent.

How did all these so called "MUSLIM COUNTRIES" become Muslim.... a lot more blood shed then israel has commited that is for sure!!!
Jews will never be grateful. When the Catholics in Spain were on a mission to make the Jews extinct, where do you think the Jews fled to? Muslim land!
As far as the spread of Islam, Dr Zakir Naik (who also debunked the Torah) can educate you:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIMUoFPOk4Y

More info:
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=58
http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/sword.html
http://www.beautifulislam.net/tellme...slam_sword.htm
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QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 08:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
hezbollah used them as shields... they are the guilty party.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2002/05/10/isrlpa3914.htm
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ManchesterFolk
09-01-2006, 08:20 PM
I've checked my own history. Jews in Israel today are of European descent.
Really? Sicne when... over 50% aren't according to there census. what are your sources? hatejews. org???

1.) I find the Torah as false historical documentation for obvious reasons.
and i find the quran to be false... lol...

On a serious note, the majority of the 10,000+ prisoners were not even tried in court.
neither were the israelis... to wrong make a right> is that the islamic mentality?

As far as the spread of Islam, Dr Zakir Naik (who also debunked the Torah) can educate you:
Any person who has a grip of hsitory knows how countries became islamic. israel is not the only guilty party of taking land. please get us some unbiased facts. you hate it when anti-islam sites are used.... i hate it when pro-kill infidels sites are used.

Roman, Babylonian, Egyption, and Greek records all prove the Jews existance as a majority in israel before islam.... your argument is baseless and pathetic.
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Isaac
09-01-2006, 08:29 PM
on a serious note, i dont understand much about israel, so i was hoping if someone could help answer these questions or am i in the wrong thread?

how long has the state of israel been in existance? where were the jews before israel was created? why or how did they end up in israel? why did they decide to leave europe for the middle east? who funded the biggest migration of people ever in history from one side of the world to the other? is israel seen as a jewish super state? can non-jews be welcomed into israel? why is that israel is sometimes referred to as a zionist state? why has israel blocked of the palestinain people and made them live in ghettos and made them become prisoners in their own homes? why did uk and usa help fund arm the recent terrorist attack in lebanon?

there are so many questions that i cant seem to find an accurate answer to so i was hoping if people on this forum could help me find the answers.
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ManchesterFolk
09-01-2006, 08:35 PM
16 Important Facts About Jews, Arabs and Israel

1. Israel became a state circa 1030 B.C., more than two millennia before Islam.

2. Arabs from Israel first began to be called "Palestinians" in 1967 by Yasser Arafat and other Arab leaders, two decades after modern Israeli statehood.

3. After conquering the land in about 1250 B.C., Jews ruled it for more than 1,300 years and have maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

4. For over 3,000 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

5. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur'an.

6. King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

8. In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Jewish presence—some 70% of them fled without ever being ordered by Israel to leave, most of those without ever having seen an Israeli soldier.

9. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

10. Some 650,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while about 850,000 Jews were forced to leave Muslim countries.

11. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees from Palestine were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War II, they are the only group to have never integrated with their coreligionists. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey.

12. There are 22 Arab countries (with 800 times the land mass of Israel), not counting the Palestinian territories. There is only one Jewish state. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

13. The Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel has agreed under several proposals to cede most of the West Bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian Authority, and even supported the arming of its police force after the Oslo Accords in 1993.

14. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths and maintained in good order at Israel’s expense.

15. Out of 175 United Nations Security Council resolutions up to 1990, 97 were against Israel; out of 690 General Assembly resolutions, 429 were against Israel;

16. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the Temple Mount and Western Wall (Kotel).
Reply

QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 08:41 PM
Really? Sicne when... over 50% aren't according to there census. what are your sources? hatejews. org???
Moderator: [Link removed]
Jew Watch is a website that claims to "report accurate information regarding Jewish ownership and control over mass media and politics," and which describes its objective as "Keeping a Close Watch on Jewish Communities & Organizations Worldwide." It is owned and maintained by Frank Weltner, a member of the National Alliance, a nazi organization.[1] The website asserts that "Jew Watch is a Not-For-Profit Library for private study, scholarship, or research." Although the maintainers of the site insist that it is not a hate site, it is widely recognized as an anti-Semitic[1][2][3] website and has received much criticism from a wide range of organizations and individuals.
and i find the quran to be false... lol...
What do you find to be true? Communist Mannifesto? Mein Kampf?

neither were the israelis... to wrong make a right> is that the islamic mentality?
Oh my! I though Israel was democratic. Thanks you for reassuring that I was wrong :D

Any person who has a grip of hsitory knows how countries became islamic. israel is not the only guilty party of taking land. please get us some unbiased facts. you hate it when anti-islam sites are used.... i hate it when pro-kill infidels sites are used.
Indonesia is the country with the highest Muslim population. Tell me what war took place that forced all the indigenous people to convert. Muslims ruled India for hundreds of years. They allowed free practice of Hindusim (though they banned the barbaric act of Sati), and today Hinduism is still a larger faith than Islam in India. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe and America. What war is taking place that are forcing people to convert? Islam spread throughout Africa through cultural contacts via trade and Suffism. I'm not going to deny that conquests in Arabia played no role, but the idea of a montheistic god and the concept of equality really did play a major role.
Reply

QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 08:43 PM
16 Important Facts About Jews, Arabs and Israel
May I ask the source for this biased post?
Reply

QuranStudy
09-01-2006, 08:57 PM
he posted his source. I am so saddened by this. 1/2 my family died in the holocaust. and neo-nazis are celebrated as good sources on jews.
What was his souce for post #49? If he uses biased source, then it's foolish of him accusing me of doing the same.
Reply

Zulkiflim
09-02-2006, 02:35 PM
Salaam,

I think that the Iranina president should accept and then he shold invite them to go to Palestine to witness what is currently being done there...
Reply

ManchesterFolk
09-02-2006, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

I think that the Iranina president should accept and then he shold invite them to go to Palestine to witness what is currently being done there...
Comapring palestinian refugee camps to the holocaust... do you enjoy showing off your stupidity?
Reply

Zulkiflim
09-02-2006, 06:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
Comapring palestinian refugee camps to the holocaust... do you enjoy showing off your stupidity?

salaam,

like i said,since Ahmednejad is being asked to witness the capms,,should not these jews also be shown the actions of their own race..a second holocasut?

and did you know that wehn the jews were being gassed and burned and shot ,some poeple disbelief at that time,.,for they suported hitler.

I guess if you lived in that time you would be one of the nay sayers...
Reply

ManchesterFolk
09-02-2006, 06:18 PM
I didn't realize Jews were a 'race'...

You know something funny. I came here and I was in full support of the palestinians. a hardcore liberal so to say.

Many members here have changed me more pro-israel. not the jewish members. the radical members...
Reply

Isaac
09-02-2006, 07:00 PM
You were in favour of the palestinian people but when people started comparing the holacusat to the palestinian cause you change your mind. Oh well shows how much you were in favour of the palestinians if you change your mind on an online forum, where half of te people here are no even from palestine and are not in charge of palestine. so yeh well done, it must be easy to change your mind.
Reply

QuranStudy
09-02-2006, 07:02 PM
I didn't realize Jews were a 'race'...
They are considered a race. Just like Arabs are considered a race.

This thread is hilarious since it managed to reach page 4 LOL.
Reply

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