Peace be upon those who seek Guidance.
format_quote Originally Posted by
glo
Hi Isa
It's good to have you back ... you always make me consider and ponder my own faith, and I have learned much because of your thought-provoking posts. :)
Than you for your kind words, and I hope I have always a good effect on those who I talk to, or post to. Also I am very glad that you do not take offence to my writings.
To proceed:
It was quoted:
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life."(John 9:1-4)
format_quote Originally Posted by
glo
Jesus' words (if we believe them) indicate clearly that the blind man in question was not born blind as a result of his sins or those of his parents. Jesus' disciples clearly seemed to think it had to be one way or the other, because that's what Hebrew Scripture teaches.
Personally, my view of this passage, I have to read more on it, but my current view is that, 'Jesus' was talking with regards to this man in particular, I say this due to the reason that the passage says,
"but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." The reason as to why this man was in the state he was, was given as, that it was so this man would have God's work displayed in his life. So with regards to those that are healed, we can say that they may have been handicapped so that they may be healed and then they would feel/see God's work, what about those who are born handicapped and are not healed? It would mean that, their reason for being handicapped was another, because if this was the only reason then they would be healed.
So yes, I do think people can be handicapped so it can cause healing, as was in this man's case '"Neither
this man nor his parents sinned,"' talking in particular. But also, if this was the only reason, that God's work may be shown in their life, then it would mean that those who are not healed have a different reason for being handicapped.
This is why I believe it may be for some cases, and may not be for others.
format_quote Originally Posted by
glo
As your above post seems to indicate that there are times when God makes people pay for the sins of their parents.
Firstly, it may be helpful to look at the wider picture of your quoted passage:
- God is talking about idol-worship, not just 'any sin' - which (according to Islam) is the worst sin of all
- It goes on to speak about God's blessings for those you love him, which are much greater than his punishment
1. I totally agree, it is talking about Associating with God, making Graven Images, such as of Bird, Man or Fish, be it a dove, representing the Holy SPirit, a Man representing Jesus, peace be upon him, or a Fish as a symbol of the Church.
2. I again agree, that God's love here is shown to span further than His punishment.
format_quote Originally Posted by
glo
Can I give you my personal view on how God deals with our sins?
If you will, I will ask, give me what you feel the Holy Spirit, peace be upon him, is telling you.
format_quote Originally Posted by
glo
I don't think God punishes us for the sins of our parents in the sense that they do something wrong and we get the blame!
That would be a very simplistic view to take.
I agree, I don't think God Punishes people for the sins of their Parents, My sins are on me and your sins on you. Seems just.
[QUOTE=glo;478315]Instead, when people make mistakes, those things have
consequences, which have a wider effect on other people, sometimes even future generations ...
I give you just a couple of examples, which spring to mind at short notice:
- Somebody mentioned a women taking drugs during pregnancy and thereby causing a birth defect in the child. The child is not being punished for the mothers action, but the mother's action is having a consequence, which is affecting her child (can you see the difference?) What we see as a negative (and therefore humanly perceive as punishment), God may use for a greater purpose (as many have said in this post)
- An example perhaps a bit more obscure: I am German, born many years after WWII. I am not responsible for the sins of my forefathers - yet, in some way, I carry the consequence of their action - because the world's perception of my nation is clouded by the recent history ... and that, at times, affects how people treat me.
Am I making sense at all??? :?[QUOTE]
Your making sense, I agree, that my actions may have consequences on my children and so forth, I agree.
I disagree thought that this type of 'consequence' is what the passage is speaking of, reason being, the passage clearly distinguishes from the Love and Hate. Look if you will:
...punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of
those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who
love me and keep my commandments.
So for example, if we have a German family, who is Christian and loves God, does this mean they will not be 'consequently' punished, and have no prejudgement on them? Because in this passage it says God punishes those who hate Him.
As you have stated:
The child is not being punished for the mothers action, but the mother's action is having a consequence, which is affecting her child (can you see the difference?)
Such consequences are not PUNISHMENTS, but rather a set up, for example, when Abraham, peace be upon him, was told to sacrafice his son, peace be upon him, his son, was not being punished but tested. So although God loved them, he tested them.
This is why I don't take the passage to mean 'consequential' stuff.
Punishment, is rather like the executions that we read in Numbers of the 'boys' and 'children' the 'females who had slept with man', their killing, by God's people, when their killing was not needed, that was Punishment, not because of the Boy's sin.
format_quote Originally Posted by
glo
Peace. :)
Peace be upon you too.
May Abraham, Moses and Jesus, be immune from any lies ascribed to them, May they be granted peace and blessings and also upon their followers.
Any mistake is mine, any good then praise be to the God of Abraham.