Despondency:Powerlessness

[Zulkiflim]

Heya

this is a perfect exaple of why muslim coutnries should not accept western aid and whyt he Ummah itself must stand by its own.

[PIE]Palestinians Begin to Direct Blame Inward
Discontent with the Hamas-led government festers among its many long-unpaid workers.
By Ken Ellingwood, Times Staff Writer
September 2, 2006


RAMALLAH, West Bank — Abdelmohsen Radwan has gone unpaid for the last six months of work. His list of who is at fault grows with each new household debt, and Palestinian officials rank high.

Radwan, a legal advisor in the Palestinian Authority Economy Ministry, blames the international community for cutting aid. He holds the Hamas-led government responsible for not paying tens of thousands of civil servants since February. And he is disappointed in President Mahmoud Abbas for not figuring a way out of the mess.
"They are all responsible in the end," said Radwan, 54, as he sweated in the midday heat along with hundreds of other government workers who gathered outside Abbas' office this week to demand their pay.

The growing public disenchantment over unpaid wages has triggered threats of a walkout by most of the 165,000 public employees. The protest began early today when more than 30,000 public school teachers sat out, disrupting the first day of classes. Many other public employees joined in, and thousands more were scheduled to strike on Sunday.

Many unpaid employees already no longer go to their jobs because they cannot afford to commute by bus or taxi. Others continue showing up at ministries that have no money or supplies to carry out their projects.

Even in advance of the threatened strike, the Palestinian government had sunk into near-paralysis.

"The government before Hamas' victory functioned well in one respect — paying the salaries. Now that is gone, too," said Samir Awad, chairman of the political science department at Birzeit University near Ramallah. "Signs of life are difficult to find, even if one tries."

Government salaries sustain nearly a third of the population, and most schools and hospitals are staffed with civil servants. So the lack of paychecks has a spillover effect into most aspects of daily life.

The United States and European Union consider Hamas a terrorist group. The group's charter calls for the destruction of Israel, and it refuses to renounce violence or to honor Israeli-Palestinian agreements.

After Hamas won a majority in parliamentary elections in January, the U.S. and Europe halted direct aid to the Palestinian Authority. In addition, Israel has withheld about $50 million monthly in customs and tax revenues that it collects on behalf of the Palestinian government under a long-standing economic agreement.

This summer, Israel stepped up the pressure, arresting more than two dozen Hamas lawmakers and Cabinet members in the West Bank, including parliament Speaker Aziz Dweik, Deputy Prime Minister Nasser Shaer and Finance Minister Omar Abdel Razek.

Israel began the arrests after Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip entered Israel through a cross-border tunnel June 25 and captured an Israeli soldier, Cpl. Gilad Shalit.

Israeli and U.S. officials have said they hoped the cutoff of money and other moves would eventually cause the Palestinian public to turn against Hamas. That may now be happening.

Palestinians are becoming impatient. Polls have shown a drop in support for the Hamas-led government, and many disappointed Palestinians who initially blamed the United States and Israel for the funding cutoff are directing their anger at their own elected leadership.

"Until recently, the public was not blaming the government at all," said analyst Ghassan Khatib, a former Palestinian planning minister. "I think there is some change toward blaming collectively the government, the presidency and the donors. The public places all these groups in one basket."

A gathering sense of desperation has led some Palestinians to question the need for the Palestinian Authority, which was created in 1994 as a product of the Oslo interim peace accords with Israel.

Some have suggested a wider international role in directly managing Palestinian affairs.

"People are starting to think that, 'What's the use of this Authority? It's nothing,' " said Ramez Muhtadi, an aide to the Palestinian parliament whose work producing publications in English has come to a halt because of the lack of money. "This feeling is getting stronger by the increase of pressure on the government."

A few sporadic payments to workers of about $350 from Abbas' office have done little to ease the damage, Muhtadi said. "It's like a sedative," he said.

Getting rid of the Palestinian Authority appears unlikely at this point, because doing so could be read as an admission that Palestinians have failed to govern themselves and aren't ready for an independent state.
[/PIE]

If you read the above article,there is no sypmathy nor any emphaty toward the suffering of the Palestinians.

the west heold the purse string and despite a DEmocratically elected goverment ,as the west wanted ,they cannot abide with the result.

And thus hyprocrisy.

This is what Lebanon will be if Hezbollah was not there to defend it and fight back equally somewhat.

The Isrealis attacked civillian sunni and chrisitan to force them to attack Hezbollah,they want lebanese to feel powerless and not to even DARE blame Isreal,for it is MIGHTY...they want the lebanese to fall on itself so that it doe snot have the capability to even fight back,then it will be another palestine.

Look at Palestine now,the people fight agains its own people,,,why?
Becasue they know they cant do anything toward the US/Isreal,they have fallen on hard times and it has overcome them.Instead of unity they have done exactly what the western world inteded.

So to the Ummah,look at the Palestinian goveremnt, of Abbas,cajoling wiht western power for help,while they stab him and the palestinian in the back.

But he is powerless to do anything,and that powerlessness is shared by the common people..

it is as the western world and Israel want.
to break the spirit ,to break the spirit.

[Trumble]

If you read the above article,there is no sypmathy nor any emphaty toward the suffering of the Palestinians.

the west heold the purse string and despite a DEmocratically elected goverment ,as the west wanted ,they cannot abide with the result.

The article is from one journalist writing for one independent newspaper. He may or may not have such sympathy and empathy, or he may or may not believe it appropriate to express it in an article that just sets out the detail the facts.

Robert Fisk is also a journalist writing for an independent newspaper, appropriately called the Independent . An article from him is likely to be totally sympathetic and empathic to the Palestinians, but he is no less representative of "the West" than is Ellingwood.

There are many Western opinions, and many ways of expressing them. The same is exactly true of the muslim world.

You disagree with that article? Fine, why not express your opinion by writing to the Times letters page and explaining why?

[Zulkiflim]

The article is from one journalist writing for one independent newspaper. He may or may not have such sympathy and empathy, or he may or may not believe it appropriate to express it in an article that just sets out the detail the facts.

Robert Fisk is also a journalist writing for an independent newspaper, appropriately called the Independent . An article from him is likely to be totally sympathetic and empathic to the Palestinians, but he is no less representative of "the West" than is Ellingwood.

There are many Western opinions, and many ways of expressing them. The same is exactly true of the muslim world.

You disagree with that article? Fine, why not express your opinion by writing to the Times letters page and explaining why?

Salaam,

I see,so this journalist is not reporting the truth just the truth as he sees it.

Now let us talk about opinion..
When i say,the west does not care nor emphatise for the palestinian..
Am i wrong?
In what way has the west shown it cares?

Let see,a democratically elected goveremnt punished by the west.
It purse string cut and denied aid to million of Palestinians.
It kept quite while Isrealis are bombing and murdering,bombin anywhere anytime wihout reason.

Opinion is what is on paper,and what is apparent is that the Palestinian are in revolt becasue it does not have any more money.
it is being punished for being democratic.

Do you agree with this opinion??

[KAding]

Salaam,

I see,so this journalist is not reporting the truth just the truth as he sees it.

Well, technically reporting has to be non-biased. Sympathizing is supposed to be limited to opinion and editoral articles.

Now let us talk about opinion..
When i say,the west does not care nor emphatise for the palestinian..
Am i wrong?
In what way has the west shown it cares?

1. A majority in the West actually sympathize more with the Pals than with the Israelis
2. Hunderds of millions dollars of aid has been given to them
3. The Pals get much more media exposure then, say, the Congolese

While 98% of arabs generally hate Israel and that is obvious from their reporting, opinions in the West are much more diverse, with advocates for either side having plenty of access to the media.

Let see,a democratically elected goveremnt punished by the west.
It purse string cut and denied aid to million of Palestinians.
It kept quite while Isrealis are bombing and murdering,bombin anywhere anytime wihout reason.

Well, yes. Whoever said democratically elected governments can't be punished? It is also our democratic right to determine who gets our money! And I'd rather not give it to Hamas, thank you. Why would we be obligated to give the Palestinian government money, that makes no sense. Besides, I think you are bieng rather ungrateful. The Pals still get lots of money, it just doesn't go through the government anymore. They get more from us than they get from other arabs! Yet we get your scorn :grumbling.

Opinion is what is on paper,and what is apparent is that the Palestinian are in revolt becasue it does not have any more money.
it is being punished for being democratic.

They are not being punished for being democratic. It's being punished for making the wrong choices. That is totally different. Again, we are NOT obligated to give Pals our money. They are free to elect a government our elected governments considered a terrorist organisation, they just have to live with the consequences of their choices. Just because they have had elections, does not mean they can do whatever they want and demand others support it.

Do you agree with this opinion??

No. It completes ignores our right to determine where our money goes. If you believe in principle that all elected governments deserve our support, why don't you support Bush and Blair?

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[Zulkiflim]

Well, technically reporting has to be non-biased. Sympathizing is supposed to be limited to opinion and editoral articles.



1. A majority in the West actually sympathize more with the Pals than with the Israelis

[PIE]Sympthay ,,umm is there any action?[/PIE]

2. Hunderds of millions dollars of aid has been given to them

[PIE]Yes ia gree hundred of million of aid,that is cut off once somehting displeases them like a democratic election.Ohh,,and also this is blood money for allowing the Isrealis to carry out offences in the name of safety...the western power keep quite and give money thinking it will solve the problem..[/PIE]
3. The Pals get much more media exposure then, say, the Congolese

[PIE]Did it do any good? Arent IDF sodleirs shooting childrena dn what not,,,what happened to them..nothing..
[/PIE]

While 98% of arabs generally hate Israel and that is obvious from their reporting, opinions in the West are much more diverse, with advocates for either side having plenty of access to the media.

[PIE]Any reason why the Arabs hate Isreal,,let see,a land grab,kiulling palestinian and murder and massacare...umm..ohh and attacking 2 coutnries when theya re the ones breaking the UN resolution,the western world sideing with israel to murder and murder and murder...while ever repurcussion by muslim are deeemed evil..hmm..i wonder why the hate..i guess wihout justice there is hate.
[/PIE]



Well, yes. Whoever said democratically elected governments can't be punished? It is also our democratic right to determine who gets our money! And I'd rather not give it to Hamas, thank you. Why would we be obligated to give the Palestinian government money, that makes no sense. Besides, I think you are bieng rather ungrateful. The Pals still get lots of money, it just doesn't go through the government anymore. They get more from us than they get from other arabs! Yet we get your scorn :grumbling.

[PIE]So as you say it is your call to decide whom the people choose as their leader,are you then practising democracy?
Are you also practising democracy when the US send sbillion of dollars for Isreal to buy WMD to murder palestinian and lebanese?
The Palestinian get more from western aid than tru arabs,,really,,,what theya re getting is blood money ..and the arab leaders do what they can,in thisr honour and in their inaction,trully it is to their doom.

Are you obligated to give israel money and weapona dn murder and vetos?
[/PIE]



They are not being punished for being democratic. It's being punished for making the wrong choices. That is totally different. Again, we are NOT obligated to give Pals our money. They are free to elect a government our elected governments considered a terrorist organisation, they just have to live with the consequences of their choices. Just because they have had elections, does not mean they can do whatever they want and demand others support it.

[PIE]I see making wrong choices,you will decide it for them right.
Here is a people who voted almost unanimously to vote in power a force that theyw ant to protpect thema nd enforce their safety.
A force that wihout will casue the Palestinian wihout a state and wihout any honour.
Ohh,wait did not the west suipported the democratic electiona nd the west allowed hamas to be in that election but they did not expect Hamas to win..so no.i guess in time the Ummah will realise that your hyrpocrisy is trully at the expense of palestinain blood.

Every time you deny palestine m,oney or Isreal blocking Palestinin own money is a nail for you.[/PIE]



No. It completes ignores our right to determine where our money goes. If you believe in principle that all elected governments deserve our support, why don't you support Bush and Blair?

[PIE]I did not vote for bush nor blair,US citizen and British citizen in fear and wanting a strong leader a war leader,,choose a perowsn they think will protect them and fight for them..

The US and British citizens are not ebing punished with sanction..
The Palestinian voted a leader and goverement that they think can and will protect and support them..and they are being punished..

Hyprocrisy you bet..

[/PIE]

So in short,Ummah wake up,these are the people who say,we should have voted wisely,they want to dictate our choices and our leader.
As they have done in iraq/Iran (the shah) ,In Egypt,Saudi Arabia and currently in somalia.

May they get what they deserve.

[KAding]

Could you stop using that odd egg for your replies, it makes it impossible to quote you.

Choices and responsibility go hand in hand. If you make a certain choice you have to consider the consequences. If I borrow some money from a friend and I decide to go to the Casino and gamble with it, I must accept that my friend is probably unlikely to lend me money again. The Pals knew, or could have known, that electing Hamas would drie up Western help. Tough luck, screw all those who think I am obligated to donate my tax money to Hamas. Use your own money if you love them so much.

So in short,Ummah wake up,these are the people who say,we should have voted wisely,they want to dictate our choices and our leader.
As they have done in iraq/Iran (the shah) ,In Egypt,Saudi Arabia and currently in somalia.

May they get what they deserve.

There is hardly a Muslim country in which you can vote, the only two places where they had real elections were in Palestine and Iraq. Thats not my fault, nor the fault of the West. Muslim societies, but especially Arab, are apparently inclined to become autocratic.

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Wow so what you are saying every Palestinain knew that voting for hamas,voting using the supposed western democratic right,know that they then should be alienated and starved.

that those coutnries that actually wanted and supported Hamas to be in aleaction,like Britiana nd the US,now they are agianst this voting.

Like i have always said before,the Palestinain voted for Hamas voted for honour,for they see Abbas and the PA as those who are weak and cant do anything,whose loyalyty can be bought over by western money.

and thus that is why the west is using its supposed "contibution" ,but for me it is blood money ,a form of restituion for allowing Isrelis to perfomr genocide and for their silence.

So wake up Ummah,support ourselves for these kafirs do not wish to see you but as them.

And io agree with you there is hardly one muslim coutnry that can vote,casue if we excersice our right we will be alinated.Just like the Palestinian.

Arabgs are inclined to be autocratic not becasue they must be but becasue of western power who prefer to ahve some secular/modern leader with whom they have leverage.

i have quoted you soem couttries like Egypt under Mubarak(is that right),Iraq under Saddam,Iran under the shah,Iraq under chalabi,Iraq under the new goverment,Iraq with a new flag...so many more.

The fact is you do not wish to see yourself as the ill,you do not wish to see yourself as the cancerous tumour that out to be cut off,,you just dont wish to accept any blame.

Typical of most kafirs who send weapons and support dictators but then later on say it is their own fault..

[duskiness]

So wake up Ummah,support ourselves for these kafirs do not wish to see you but as them.

The fact is you do not wish to see yourself as the ill,you do not wish to see yourself as the cancerous tumour that out to be cut off,,you just dont wish to accept any blame.

Typical of most kafirs who send weapons and support dictators but then later on say it is their own fault..

UE is the biggest doner to Palestinians, even if we are kafirs. And even now when we don't accept Hamas, our money are still given to Palestianians.
old story
n.

[Zulkiflim]

UE is the biggest doner to Palestinians, even if we are kafirs. And even now when we don't accept Hamas, our money are still given to Palestianians.
old story
n.

Salaam,

And for that wealth you use it as leverage,and you are correct it is OLD sourc,to help those that you and your goveremnt liked.

Abbas,...and the old goveremnt,who would sell out for western aid not becasue he cant stand up but his will is borken.

Hamas won and you cant deal with it and so what have you done,cut off any aid..while Abbas begs for aid.

Hamas is doing all it can to support the poeple and Inshallah,if the people do nto lose hope and UNITE then inshallah it is better.

Ummah wake up,do the brothers and siter be aided by those who send bombd and weapons to kill them while then giving money to keep them alive just so that their bombs can kill them??

Like the western Hyprocirist in Lebanon....US send Bombs to Israel...and yet gives aid to the lebanese..
To keep them alive another day,to die another day...