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Mohsin
09-07-2006, 11:37 AM
I am making this thread out of my pure ignorance about Christianity. The other day I was speaking to my sister about University societies and an idea came up that there should be inter-faith dialogues. Then i thought to myself about the christian societies and what they do at uni, and it got me thinking, what is a practising christian? I'm sure they do things and acts of worship, but are there any set of rules. I was thinking that they go church every sunday, but are there other things that distinguish practising Christians??
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Umar001
09-07-2006, 11:43 AM
Well, they don't have to go church every sunday, some go on wednesday nights or so on, they differ.

Also, I don't think its easy to distinguish 'practicing' and non practicing.
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glo
09-07-2006, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
I am making this thread out of my pure ignorance about Christianity. The other day I was speaking to my sister about University societies and an idea came up that there should be inter-faith dialogues. Then i thought to myself about the christian societies and what they do at uni, and it got me thinking, what is a practising christian? I'm sure they do things and acts of worship, but are there any set of rules. I was thinking that they go church every sunday, but are there other things that distinguish practising Christians??
Hi Mohsin

I think inter-faith dialogue would be a great idea! :)
I think the important thing is to inform each other of each others faiths and beliefs without trying to push your faiths onto each other. (Not always as easy as it sounds! :))

As to your question about what a practising Christian is, you may find that it depends on the denomination.
Generally, Christians worship in church, with Sunday being the main day of worship. Christians read the Bible, which they honour and respect as God's word to humanity. Some Christians attend prayer groups and Bible study groups.
There are no visible signs as to who is a practising Christian (not like there is in Islam).
The best way to find out about what Christians do, would be to get into conversations with them and perhaps observe their way of praying and worshipping. You may find that some are quite formal and pietous in their prayer and worship, others more self-expressive and informal!

I am happy to tell you more about how I practice my faith personally, but I don't think I can speak for all other Christians. :rollseyes

Thanks for expressing an interest. :)

Peace
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sameer
09-07-2006, 04:06 PM
so basically u just need to read the bible to be a practicing chrisitian? what about following it?

So what does the bible stipulate for u to be a practicing chrisitan? eg, what does it say about fasting, methods of prayer, gambling, adultry etc.

Dosent it say what would make u a christian and what would make u a non christian?
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glo
09-07-2006, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
every time i think i want to post something and read what you say about us i change my mind
Hey, sis, don't take it to heart. :)

It doesn't make for a healthy and tolerant discussion, I agree - but you are making the assumption that that's what everybody else is here for. Some people may have other motives ... :uhwhat

God bless.
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sameer
09-07-2006, 04:33 PM
^^ I hope u didnt take offense with my post...i noticed u didnt answer the questions. I assure u they are genuine.
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glo
09-07-2006, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
^^ I hope u didnt take offense with my post...i noticed u didnt answer the questions. I assure u they are genuine.
No, I didn't take offence at all. :)
I've just been busy, that's all.

You have to realise that I am a working woman with a husband and two children - so time isn't always freely available! :D
On top of that, people here sometimes ask very difficult questions or make challenging statements, which aren't always easy or even possibly to reply to.
I find that I have to go away to
read things up, or
pray about things, or
ponder questions, or
just put things on the shelf for a while, because I don't know a reply ...


I am not a scholar or theologian, so I tend to give my personal understanding of things, not necessarily the most knowledgeable reply ...

As it happens, your questions are difficult to answer:
so basically u just need to read the bible to be a practicing chrisitian? what about following it?
Of course you have to follow the Bible message.

1) You need to read the Bible to understand about Jesus' life, the purpose of his life and death and his message to mankind.

2) You need to fellowship with other Christians to remain focused in God's word. Otherwise it would be all too easy to drift off into another 'God-told-me-to...thinking'. Furthermore, Jesus told us to gather in his name:
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:12)
3) You need to be willing to live every day of your life for God, to surrender to his will and purpose. The act of baptism is seen as a symbol of 'dying to yourself (i.e. your own desires and wishes) and starting a 'new life' for God.

4) You should pray and be in communication with God daily.
So what does the bible stipulate for u to be a practicing chrisitan? eg, what does it say about fasting, methods of prayer, gambling, adultry etc.
The Bible has much to say about how people should conduct themselves.
But, seen from a Muslim perspective, it must be said that the Bible is by no means as clear-cut and directive as the Qu'ran is.

At the most basic level, Jesus condensed all of God's laws into this:
"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."(Matthew 22:37-40)
Of course these are not the only commands to Christians, but somehow all others tie into those two

The Bible is quite clear on issues such as gambling, adultery, murder etc ...
In terms of fasting and methods of prayer, it is less prescriptive, and consequently there are many varietions amongst different denominations, and amongst individuals.

To give you a personal example, I pray daily, usually at least three times (morning, lunch time and night). If I don't manage that or don't find the time, that's fine. I haven't broken any 'law', because there wasn't one in the first place.
The prayer I offer to God, I offer out of joy and gratitude, not because it has been stipulated to me.
If I am praying for specific situations, or I feel God has put a certain issue onto my heart, I may choose to pray on an hourly basis for a certain amount of time. Again, not because there is a rule that says I should, but because I feel the desire to do so.
Now, all that's just me - ask 10 other Christians and they may tell you 10 different things.


Dosent it say what would make u a christian and what would make u a non christian?
Despite all the differences between the different denominations, Christians all have these things in common:

They have put their faith and trust in the person of Jesus Christ, and they believe that he died on the cross as payment for sins and rose again on the third day to obtain victory over death and to give eternal life to all who believe in him.
“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.” (John 1:12)
They consider themselves to be children of God, a part of God’s true family, those who have been given new life in Christ. The mark of a Christian is love for others and obedience to God’s Word.

I hope this answers some of your questions :)
Please feel free to ask some more, as long as you are patient with my replies (as explained above!) :D

Peace :)
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Curious girl2
09-07-2006, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Usually they drink and sing.

You really are uninformed aren't you? If you really are interested in finding out about other religions why not speak to a priest, rabbi or hindu equiv (soz to any hindu's here but I dont know what your equiv of a rabbi/minister would be called). You are obviously unaware that the tone of your posts cause offense, so that way you could find out what you want to know and not offend anyone in the process.

BTW I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are unaware you are causing offense, surely you wouldnt be trying to offend forum members on purpose with your posts would you.................................?

Peace
CG
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Umm Yoosuf
09-07-2006, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
I am making this thread out of my pure ignorance about Christianity. The other day I was speaking to my sister about University societies and an idea came up that there should be inter-faith dialogues. Then i thought to myself about the christian societies and what they do at uni, and it got me thinking, what is a practising christian? I'm sure they do things and acts of worship, but are there any set of rules. I was thinking that they go church every sunday, but are there other things that distinguish practising Christians??

I wondered that too.


Some Christians attend prayer groups and Bible study groups.
I see.... but is that all? What else do you do?
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Curious girl2
09-07-2006, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Mu'minah
I wondered that too.




I see.... but is that all? What else do you do?

Try to live our lives in obeyance of the gospel. Follow the commandments. Apply the teachings of Jesus to our lives, that sort of thing. I am sure someone else can put it more eloquently than I can.

HTH
Peace
CG
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QuranStudy
09-07-2006, 10:38 PM
Try to live our lives in obeyance of the gospel. Follow the commandments. Apply the teachings of Jesus to our lives, that sort of thing. I am sure someone else can put it more eloquently than I can.
If Christians care about the Gospel so much, then how come there are gay priests in churches?? Also, do you honestly think the Christians in general follow all Ten Commandments??
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Curious girl2
09-07-2006, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
If Christians care about the Gospel so much, then how come there are gay priests in churches?? Also, do you honestly think the Christians in general follow all Ten Commandments??

If Muslims care about the Qu'ran, the how come there are people blowing themselves and others up in the name of Islam? Because they are not true Muslims.

My own personal view is that there shouldnt be practicing homosexuals appointed as priests, anymore than so-called Muslims who defile their religion by blowing themselves and others up in the name of Islam.

Some people claim to be Christians and are not. By doing so they disrepect the religion they claim to uphold. Some people claim to be Muslim and they are not. By doing so they disrespect the religion they claim to uphold. There are bad examples in all religions.

I do not think that all the people who claim to be Christians truly follow their religion and laws. Though many do, sadly the minority give Christianity a bad name. In exactly the same way not all that people who claim to be Muslims (in fact insert ANY religion here) truly follow their religion and laws. Though many do, sadly a minority give Islam a bad name.

HTH
Peace
CG
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snakelegs
09-08-2006, 12:39 AM
would it be fair to say that christians are more faith/belief oriented and muslims and jews more action oriented?
i've read on this forum that no matter your good deeds, if you don't believe in jesus you will go to hell.
respect is essential to interfaith dialogue. often people pose questions not because they really want to learn about another religion but because they want to ridicule it or confirm their prejudices.
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Jayda
09-08-2006, 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by Al-Mu'minah
I wondered that too.




I see.... but is that all? What else do you do?

I think the reason we are having so much trouble answering your question is the way it is phrased... A Christian is probably defined more by what they believe than what they do... like as far as rituals and stuff are concerned.

That does not mean we lack such practices... we just dont have as many and not nearly so structured. We attend Church on Sundays, since that is the day of the Lord. Most of our religious duties are performed there... attending Church itself is a religious duty. Beyond that there are sacrements, the sacrements are (for Catholics, but for most denominations as well):

* Baptism
* Confirmation
* Holy Eucharist (or Holy Communion)
* Matrimony (or sacramental marriage)
* Holy Orders
* Reconciliation (or Penance, Confession)
* Anointing of the Sick (or Extreme Unction, Last Rites)

I just pulled that off of Wikipedia. These are called sacrements because they are important rites, some will only happen once in a life time.

Beyond this we Catholics have other rituals (i do not know about other denominations), and they correspond to certain events in Christian history. Palm Sunday we carry palms during church to commemorate Jesus triumphant reception (i think in nazareth), on ash wednesday we have ash crosses on our foreheads to identify us as christians and to signify repentence, on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday Catholics fast... we eat only one meal and cannot eat meat.

We Catholics are also supposed to fast during Lent and Advent... this usually means either not eating a certian kind of food like meat, or cutting back to only one normal sized meal per day... i do that for both. Additionally abstinence is also for Lent. Both periods are about 40 days... there are other things Catholics are required to do that I dont think other denominations do like holy days of obligation... or at least dave never mentioned anything... he was protestant...

Aside from these rituals (and there are others) leading a Christian life... actually doing what Jesus told us to do morally is very difficult... taking care of the poor and sick, visiting people in prison, staying humble, no wealth and not judging others are among the things we are demanded to do by Christ... he encapsulated all of his commandments to us by telling us to be perfect like his father.

...i hope that helps!
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Umm Yoosuf
09-08-2006, 01:25 AM
Hi Jayda

Thank you for your enlightening post :)

The question I asked was in relation to the Christian society in universities. I wanted to know what activities and/or practise they do.

Going back to your post:

Exactly what you have posted is what most Christians I know tell me about their practises in Christianity.

In Islam the concept of worship is in every form really. From waking up in the morning saying a Ad-Du'a (supplication), eating, saying salaams, to have relationships with one partner and so on. Everything we do in Islam is worship. Worship is not just limited to prayer. Allah rewards us.

May I ask how God ask's you to worship Him in the bible? You seem to be putting alot of emphasis what Jesus said etc Why not on God.
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dougmusr
09-08-2006, 01:52 AM
May I ask how God ask's you to worship Him in the bible? You seem to be putting alot of emphasis what Jesus said etc Why not on God.
If I'm not mistaken, Muslims believe Jesus was given the Gospel to share with mankind, and this Gospel was given by God. So whether you believe as we do that Jesus was God's Son, or that the Bible is God's Word, you should understand why we place emphasis on what Jesus said, because the Gospel was given Him by God.
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QuranStudy
09-08-2006, 01:55 AM
The Gospel Christians read isnt the real Gospel. Quite obvious.
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therebbe
09-08-2006, 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
The Gospel Christians read isnt the real Gospel. Quite obvious.
We all have our own opinions. No need to degrade others.
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Jayda
09-08-2006, 01:56 AM
We believe Jesus is God, i do not know the answer to your question... Jesus taught us prayers like the our father... but prayer has been many different ways in the bible... sometimes kneeling sometimes completely prostrate...
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QuranStudy
09-08-2006, 01:57 AM
We all have our own opinions. No need to degrade others.
Dougmusr assumed that Muslims believe the Gosel they read is from God.
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dougmusr
09-08-2006, 02:05 AM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
The Gospel Christians read isnt the real Gospel. Quite obvious.
I'd love to have a copy of the real Gospel. Could you provide one?
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QuranStudy
09-08-2006, 02:06 AM
I'd love to have a copy of the real Gospel. Could you provide one?
I'd love to read the real copy too. The problems is, Christians can't trace to the real gospel!
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dougmusr
09-08-2006, 02:22 AM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
I'd love to read the real copy too. The problems is, Christians can't trace to the real gospel!
Unless you possess a real copy, you can offer no proof that the Christian Gospel is not the true Gospel. You can doubt its sources, you say it was mishandled and perverted, but you simply can't prove it without the original.
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north_malaysian
09-08-2006, 02:30 AM
Some questions:

1) I've seen Catholics with rosaries, what they say when they use the rosaries?

2) Are candles essential in Christianity worships?

3) Do Christians have specific time of prayers like Jews and Muslims?
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Mohsin
09-08-2006, 04:38 AM
My intention for this thread was not for it turn into posing questions for christians that are difficult to answer, this is genuinely for learning about their faith without wanting to question their books and doctrines, if people want to do that there are plenty of other threads elsewhere on this forum

Hey Glo thanks for your reply. I was thinking about other issues also. For example drinking, a lot of people drink today. Would a practising Christian not drink. Would he/she also not gamble. What about fornication. Are practising christians allowed boyfriend/girlfriends?

To give you a personal example, I pray daily, usually at least three times (morning, lunch time and night). If I don't manage that or don't find the time, that's fine. I haven't broken any 'law', because there wasn't one in the first place.
The prayer I offer to God, I offer out of joy and gratitude, not because it has been stipulated to me


Oh by the way, in islam, although we have to pray 5 prayers on time, it's not the only time we can peray, we can pray at most other times of day also, whenever we feel to get closer to God. I know you feel that maybe we pray only because we have to and not because we want to, and this to a certain extent is true for some, but practising muslims should not only follow the prayer time rules, but they should also want to actually pray and look forward to praying to Allah. I think one of the wisdoms it is stipulated for us is if it there were no rules on praying on time then people would be a bit lazy with no regulations to it, as with all laws you need regulations to keep you in check. Also it serves as a good reminder whether your heart is in the prayer or not, as you still are aware of what you are reciting, and it reminds you always of your purpose in life at least
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glo
09-08-2006, 06:11 AM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
My intention for this thread was not for it turn into posing questions for christians that are difficult to answer, this is genuinely for learning about their faith without wanting to question their books and doctrines,
Thank you, Mohsin. I understand and appreciate that. :)
I came to this forum for the same reason - to understand about Islam.

But - as snakelegs put it so well - 'often people pose questions not because they really want to learn about another religion but because they want to ridicule it or confirm their prejudices.' Consequently you may find people at times a little hesitant to enter into religious debates. :rollseyes
As Muslims, Christians love God, their holy book and their faith. Seeing it attacked, criticised and ridiculed is hurtful - as I am sure you can understand.

I will try to answer your questions when I have more time.
Since you are asking on behalf of all Christians, it may be difficult to break the answer into the different denominations.

Because you have to appreciate that different churches, groups and denominations interpret and live the Gospel in different ways. You may think that should be the case.
But I am sure that there are also more liberal Muslims who live Islam differently to those who are more traditional (i.e. wear Western clothes, no hijab, drink alcohol, smoke, listen to music ...). You may think that's non-Islamic, but if I asked them, they would probably describe themselves as good Muslims - regardless of what you think of them!

Anyway, gotta go ...

Peace :)
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north_malaysian
09-08-2006, 06:38 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Some questions:

1) I've seen Catholics with rosaries, what they say when they use the rosaries?

2) Are candles essential in Christianity worships?

3) Do Christians have specific time of prayers like Jews and Muslims?
Nobody answering this?:uhwhat
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duskiness
09-08-2006, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Some questions:
1) I've seen Catholics with rosaries, what they say when they use the rosaries?
Typical rosary consist of 5 x 10 beads (here we say Hail Mary)
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.
and one bigger bead befor every group (here: Our Father).
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done,
On earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.
Save us from the time of trial,
And deliver us from evil.
After finishing each decade we say "Glory be".
Glory be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be
World without end.
Oh! and befor starting rosary we say "creed" then "Our father", then 3 x "Heil Mary". And then the first decade.

The "aim" of rosary is not to say as much without thinking. Words we say should help as focus on so called "mysteries".
There are: joyful, sorrowful, glorious and luminous.
for example sorrowful mysteries:
Jesus Agony in the Garden (1 decade of beads)
Scourging at the Pillar (2 deacade of beads)
Crowning Jesus with Thorns (3...)
Carrying of the Cross (4....)
Crucifixion and Death of Jesus (5...)

more on mysteries on wiki
but there are othere ways of praying using rosary. Rosary is just a tool to help us pray.

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
2) Are candles essential in Christianity worships?
no. There are realy few things that are essencial. :D

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
3) Do Christians have specific time of prayers like Jews and Muslims?
Catholic often pray at noon "Angelus". Some people pray Liturgy of Hours using Breviary (that 9 ?not sure? prayers during the day)
To sum up: we have many ways of praying. You choose the way that helps and suites you. There are no obligatory prayers or prayer times.
i hope my answer make some sens :rollseyes
n.
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Jayda
09-08-2006, 12:35 PM
cool! im not the only catholic :)
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glo
09-08-2006, 12:45 PM
That was really informative, duskiness! Thanks!

I must confess that I went to church with my mother a while ago, when the rosary was said. She had assured me that it was going to be a wonderful spiritual experience - but unfortunately I found that my mind kept wandering ... Hhhhmmm ... :rollseyes

Good thing we can praise and worship God in different ways.

God bless. :)
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sameer
09-08-2006, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by glo

Hmmm u may or maynot realise that some of the answers u have given is almost the same in Islam. There are many similarities between our religion, but also some fundalemtnal differences.

1) You need to read the Bible to understand about Jesus' life, the purpose of his life and death and his message to mankind.

In our case we read the Quran to know what God has to say. Then we read the Hadith of Muhammad to know about his life and how he lived/practised/expalined the message in the Quran

2) You need to fellowship with other Christians to remain focused in God's word. Otherwise it would be all too easy to drift off into another 'God-told-me-to...thinking'. Furthermore, Jesus told us to gather in his name:

Muslims must do the same thing. But our bond goes deeper than just maintaining fellowship. Every muslim is a brother no matter of status, color etc. That is y when muslims are killed a world away from us, its hurts us in our hearts still similar to the way u would feel if someone killed ure real borther.


3) You need to be willing to live every day of your life for God, to surrender to his will and purpose. The act of baptism is seen as a symbol of 'dying to yourself (i.e. your own desires and wishes) and starting a 'new life' for God.

The word muslim mean submission to God. We dunno need to be baptised beacuse muslims believe that every child is born sinless and muslim. Ppl who re-vert into islam does something called the Shahada which is to testify that there is no God besides Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. This shahada wipes away all previous sins. (similar to what u said)

4) You should pray and be in communication with God daily.

Muslims are ordered to do this daily and taught how to do it.

The Bible has much to say about how people should conduct themselves.
But, seen from a Muslim perspective, it must be said that the Bible is by no means as clear-cut and directive as the Qu'ran is.

This is why Allah tells us that he also revealed the gospel (inits original form). Muslims believe that the origianl Gospel is the word of God. In the Quran however, it is reveal that it had been changed and therfore the origianl is lost. The Quran and hadith is clear cut in every aspect of life beacuse ALlah also revealed in the Quran that :
"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Surah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)
So it makes sense to us that Muhammad (saw) the last messenger would bring the last message and complete what all the rest of previous prophets/revelations had started.
I know this thread is for christian practices an i hope u didnt mind that i showed the similarites with islamic practices.
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sameer
09-08-2006, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda

Beyond this we Catholics have other rituals (i do not know about other denominations), and they correspond to certain events in Christian history. Palm Sunday we carry palms during church to commemorate Jesus triumphant reception (i think in nazareth), on ash wednesday we have ash crosses on our foreheads to identify us as christians and to signify repentence, on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday Catholics fast... we eat only one meal and cannot eat meat.


We Catholics are also supposed to fast during Lent and Advent... this usually means either not eating a certian kind of food like meat, or cutting back to only one normal sized meal per day... i do that for both. Additionally abstinence is also for Lent. Both periods are about 40 days... there are other things Catholics are required to do that I dont think other denominations do like holy days of obligation... or at least dave never mentioned anything... he was protestant...


Did Jesus do these things or instructed his followers to? or were these just traditions that his followers started up in his absense?
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Jayda
09-08-2006, 01:58 PM
Most are either old Jewish practice, things Jesus did with his disciples or things that his disciples had the early christian community do. Some are customs added later for symbolic purposes - like the fasting before advent, lent is the only fast in the bible.
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sameer
09-08-2006, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
Most are either old Jewish practice, things Jesus did with his disciples or things that his disciples had the early christian community do. Some are customs added later for symbolic purposes - like the fasting before advent, lent is the only fast in the bible.
i see. So how can a man add to "God's" message? So this was added to the bible ? or just like in customs?
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Jayda
09-08-2006, 02:12 PM
no it wasnt added to the bible... they were just customs and traditions later added to help the faithful become closer to God (that is the Churches job)... so things like the advent fast were added to remind us that we depend on God for everything and to keep us mindful of his coming...
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glo
09-08-2006, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
I know this thread is for christian practices an i hope u didnt mind that i showed the similarites with islamic practices.
No, that's cool. :)
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Woodrow
09-08-2006, 03:50 PM
Having been a Christian at one time and now being Muslim. I find that the most difficult concept Muslims, have trouble grasping about Christians is the concept of denominations. Many Muslims that I know have had little contact with Christians and are under the assumption that the practices or non-practices of the Christians they have met are applicable to all.

Christians do consist of many denominations some are vastly different from the others. Essentialy you have several main groups, the Largest being Catholic and Orthodox, then there are Protestants and Fundamentalists.

The Catholic and othodox place much emphasis on church law and follow the obedience of either the Pope (Roman Catholics and Russian Orthodox) or the Patriarch of Constantinople (Greek Orthodox) I believe the Coptics follow the Bishop of Alexandria. Some major differences with them and other Christians are their following of Church Law and the belief of Intercessation of the Saints.

The Protestents are similar in many aspects except they do not follow the same church laws nor do they follow the Pope or any designated head of the denomination.

Fundamentalists are strictly Bible Christians. They have no real past history and are started by people that many consider to be Bible scholars. Although they make up the smallest number of adherents they form the majority of seperate denominations. Each tends to believe that their founder was the only person who truly understood the Bible and that they are the only people who are true Christians. Typicaly they do not follow any of the rituals or practices followed by Catholics or Protestants. Muslims are most likely to meet Fundamentalistic Evangelists as their only contact with Christians.

Another seperate Group that calls themselves Christians are the Mormans. I know very little about them, except that for the most part they believe the Book of Morman, is the completion of the Bible and is the final word.
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sameer
09-08-2006, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
no it wasnt added to the bible... they were just customs and traditions later added to help the faithful become closer to God (that is the Churches job)... so things like the advent fast were added to remind us that we depend on God for everything and to keep us mindful of his coming...
so man added this to help the gospel beacuse it wasnt good enough at bringing ppl closer to God?
Arent u contradicting ure self when u say we depend on God for everything but things still needed to be added to his "gospel" to make it beter?
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therebbe
09-08-2006, 09:39 PM
Arent u contradicting ure self when u say we depend on God for everything but things still needed to be added to his "gospel" to make it beter?
Does Islam believe all the Hadeeths from G-d?
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QuranStudy
09-08-2006, 09:41 PM
Does Islam believe all the Hadeeths from G-d?
No, the Hadeeth is the word of man.
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Jayda
09-08-2006, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
so man added this to help the gospel beacuse it wasnt good enough at bringing ppl closer to God?
Arent u contradicting ure self when u say we depend on God for everything but things still needed to be added to his "gospel" to make it beter?
nothing was added to the gospel... the church is the continuation of Jesus ministry... Catholics call it the bride of Christ and it retains the authority to teach and expound upon his teachings... by recommending practices like fasting to us the Church is just showing us how we can be closer to God... that is its job... it has nothing to do with inadequacy..
Reply

sameer
09-08-2006, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
nothing was added to the gospel... the church is the continuation of Jesus ministry... Catholics call it the bride of Christ and it retains the authority to teach and expound upon his teachings... by recommending practices like fasting to us the Church is just showing us how we can be closer to God... that is its job... it has nothing to do with inadequacy..
I dont understand. I think we will keep goin in circles. U keep unmindfully agreeing with me with ure statements. Its right in ure own words. The church adds things cause it thinks the religon wasnt complete. Once u add things to Jesus (as) teachings...then it is no longer pure, it is has been change. Not so?

The question now, is that why didnt God complete the religion at that time? maybe it was in his plan to complete it at a later time?

Dont tell me the church can complete it beacuse the ppl of the church or not even the saints cannot compare to God or Jesus (in bringing a message), so therfore they have no right to "complete"\ change\ add things. It is known that men can be corrupted, today and in the past. So how can the religion be completed by men rather than God? Isnt it possible that men can write/change things to suit them? wasnt this done to allow for divorce?
Please ponder my comments for a while b4 u answer.
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glo
09-09-2006, 07:14 AM
Sameer,
Perhaps it helps to remember that the Gospel is not written in a prescriptive way, as the Qu'ran seems to be.
Rather than beings a reference books of do's and don'ts, it is an account of Jesus life. To Christians he is the living word of God, the fulfillment of his laws, the beginning and the end.

Now, Jesus gave many instructions with regards to how we should conduct ourselves, and how to apply God's laws ... but it has remained for churches to decide how this will be put in place practically. That's why who have different denominations with different ways of following Jesus' word as best they feel they can.

I know from a Muslim perspective it seems strange, and I can sense your frustration - but is it really that much different in Islam? :?

As far as I understand the hadiths are advice added by humans to build on the Qu'ran. As far as I understand the interpretation of Qu'ran and hadiths, and how they should be applied to modern life, is left to scholars and knowledgeable Imams.
That doesn't sound too different to what Christians are doing ...

Keep remembering that the Qu'ran and the Bible don't fulfill the same purpose. They never have done, and they were never meant to be! You cannot compare them - it will never work.

Perhaps this helps a little bit.
I know our replies may be frustrating to you ... but it is just as frustrating to try to explain. :D

Peace.
Reply

duskiness
09-09-2006, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by Jayda
cool! im not the only catholic :)
no, you're not alone. Not sure but it seems that Eric is also.
We have Protestants, Catholics here...now we need to find Orthodox :)
n.
Reply

Mohsin
09-09-2006, 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by glo
But I am sure that there are also more liberal Muslims who live Islam differently to those who are more traditional (i.e. wear Western clothes, no hijab, drink alcohol, smoke, listen to music ...). You may think that's non-Islamic, but if I asked them, they would probably describe themselves as good Muslims - regardless of what you think of them!
I don't agree entirely. I know there are probably many "modern" muslims who do think they are good muslims despite doing what they do, but most, even though they won't pray and will listen top mjusic and go clubbing and drink alcohol etc, they will still acknowledge they are sinning. most of these will openly admit they are sinning, and will say to you "yeah I need to change, i know i'm doing bad", while others will deny it, but deep down they will know they are sinning, they just don't want to admit it in the open. Very few will actually believe what they are doing is fine.
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Fishman
09-09-2006, 11:12 AM
:sl:
I think this is a good topic because we are actually learning about each other's faiths, rather than having debate wars.
:w:
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Mohsin
09-09-2006, 11:23 AM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I think this is a good topic because we are actually learning about each other's faiths, rather than having debate wars.
:w:

Yeah so far so good, I remember br Woodrow tried to have a thread like this once but it turned out bad
Reply

glo
09-09-2006, 11:33 AM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
Yeah so far so good, I remember br Woodrow tried to have a thread like this once but it turned out bad
Yeah, 48 posts so far ... we are doing well!! :D
We'll be fine as long as we all remain patient, polite and tolerant of each others views. :)
We have to accept that there will be areas in which we will not agree.
Much as we seek common ground, there will be areas where there is no common ground. ... that's when we need tolerance and the ability to say 'Let's agree to disagree' - and still remain friends! :)

Peace
Reply

Qurratul Ayn
09-09-2006, 11:46 AM
Hello!

I have never met proper Christians before except for my previous Primary school Headmistress and the Vicar of a church, which the school used to go to only on special days and events e.g. Christmas.

So I think that Friends such as glo here explaining Christianity to the best of their knowledge on this board is good, useful and informative and it also gives everybody else an insight on how Christians spend their lives as Christians and what they do to submit themselves to God and how to please God. So this thread is useful in knowing some things about Christianity and Thank You Friend glo for posting in psts which all of us can read and know at least abit about Christianity.

Peace to you all
Qurratul Ayn
Reply

Jayda
09-09-2006, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
I dont understand. I think we will keep goin in circles. U keep unmindfully agreeing with me with ure statements. Its right in ure own words. The church adds things cause it thinks the religon wasnt complete. Once u add things to Jesus (as) teachings...then it is no longer pure, it is has been change. Not so?

The question now, is that why didnt God complete the religion at that time? maybe it was in his plan to complete it at a later time?

Dont tell me the church can complete it beacuse the ppl of the church or not even the saints cannot compare to God or Jesus (in bringing a message), so therfore they have no right to "complete"\ change\ add things. It is known that men can be corrupted, today and in the past. So how can the religion be completed by men rather than God? Isnt it possible that men can write/change things to suit them? wasnt this done to allow for divorce?
Please ponder my comments for a while b4 u answer.
...do you know what the holy spirit is?
Reply

sameer
09-09-2006, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
...do you know what the holy spirit is?
The holy spirit is revealed to us in the Quran as angel Gabriel (Jibraeel)

[link removed]
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sameer
09-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
...do you know what the holy spirit is?
The holy spirit is revealed to us in the Quran as angel Gabriel (Jibraeel)

[Link removed]
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Mohsin
09-10-2006, 08:49 AM
Christians are allowed to drink aren't they? So a practising christian wouldn't necessarily mean he doesn't drink?
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Tania
09-10-2006, 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
Christians are allowed to drink aren't they? So a practising christian wouldn't necessarily mean he doesn't drink?
I don't remind the alcohol to be forbidden. But after me, the drinking should be very limited upto the point in which will no affect the man behaviour in his family. I would prefer 0.:D
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duskiness
09-10-2006, 10:25 AM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
Christians are allowed to drink aren't they? So a practising christian wouldn't necessarily mean he doesn't drink?
yes we are allowed. what's more our, most important rite is Eucharist/Holy Communion/Lord's Supper in which we eat small amount of bread and sip a bit of wine.
n.
Reply

Jayda
09-10-2006, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
The holy spirit is revealed to us in the Quran as angel Gabriel (Jibraeel)
The Holy Spirit guides the Church and continues Jesus mission and ministry on Earth. Its not that bible is "incomplete" it is just that the presence of God is not diminished now that Jesus went back to heaven... his presence lives in the Church and gives the Church the authority to make decisions based on what the Bible says. This isnt man correcting or adding to what God did, it is Gods continued work on Earth.

Not that advising us to fast during advent or other rituals is adding to the Bible, its just interpretation bringing us closer to God. Just like how when an islamic judge makes shariah he isnt adding anything to the Quran.
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Jayda
09-10-2006, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
Christians are allowed to drink aren't they? So a practising christian wouldn't necessarily mean he doesn't drink?
Yes we are allowed to drink, so to be practicing doesnt necessarily mean they dont drink.
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sameer
09-11-2006, 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
The Holy Spirit guides the Church and continues Jesus mission and ministry on Earth. Its not that bible is "incomplete" it is just that the presence of God is not diminished now that Jesus went back to heaven... his presence lives in the Church and gives the Church the authority to make decisions based on what the Bible says. This isnt man correcting or adding to what God did, it is Gods continued work on Earth.

Not that advising us to fast during advent or other rituals is adding to the Bible, its just interpretation bringing us closer to God. Just like how when an islamic judge makes shariah he isnt adding anything to the Quran.
When an islamic jugde makes a decision based on shari'ah, he does it based on verses of Quran and Hadith, or the principles stated there. Eg. the Islam does not allow alcohol because it is intoxicatiing,addictive, harmful to health etc. so based on that a judge/scholar of islam would deem cocaine to be haraam although the prophet (saw) never spoke of cocaine.

DId jesus ever say what the holy spirit is?
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Jayda
09-11-2006, 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
When an islamic jugde makes a decision based on shari'ah, he does it based on verses of Quran and Hadith, or the principles stated there. Eg. the Islam does not allow alcohol because it is intoxicatiing,addictive, harmful to health etc. so based on that a judge/scholar of islam would deem cocaine to be haraam although the prophet (saw) never spoke of cocaine.
Likewise, Magesterium does not contradict the principles or teachings of Jesus Christ in the Bible, rather it teaches based on the principles and teachins of Jesus Christ and the Bible.

Originally Posted by sameer
DId jesus ever say what the holy spirit is?
Yes, Jesus and the disciples discussed the Holy Spirit.
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-11-2006, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by therebbe
Does Islam believe all the Hadeeths from G-d?
Hadiths are infact a form of revelation that the Prophet :arabic5: got.

53 : 2. Your companion (Muhammad ) has neither gone astray nor has erred.
3. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.
4. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

Sunan Abu Dawud:

4587

Narrated Al-Miqdam ibn Ma'dikarib: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Beware! I have been given the Qur'an and something like it, yet the time is coming when a man replete on his couch will say: Keep to the Qur'an; what you find in it to be permissible treat as permissible, and what you find in it to be prohibited treat as prohibited. Beware! The domestic ass, beasts of prey with fangs, a find belonging to confederate, unless its owner does not want it, are not permissible to you If anyone comes to some people, they must entertain him, but if they do not, he has a right to mulct them to an amount equivalent to his entertainment.

4588

Narrated AbuRafi': The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Let me not find one of you reclining on his couch when he hears something regarding me which I have commanded or forbidden and saying: We do not know. What we found in Allah's Book we have followed.

:w:
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sameer
09-11-2006, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
Likewise, Magesterium does not contradict the principles or teachings of Jesus Christ in the Bible, rather it teaches based on the principles and teachins of Jesus Christ and the Bible.



Yes, Jesus and the disciples discussed the Holy Spirit.
When it comes to actual worship (eg. praying, fasting, day of Jumm'ah) and things surrounding/affecting that, then things arent supposed to be changed but rather followed as stated in the hadith and in the Quran. If they are changed or added, they are called Bid'ah or innovations. The prophet (saw) advised that innovations are to be rejected thus muslims today are realizing this and are refraining from doing this.

It is narrated on the authority of the Mother of the Believers, Umm 'Abdullah 'Aishah, radiyallahu 'anha, that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, said:

"Whosoever introduces into this affair of ours (i.e. into Islam) something that does not belong to it, it is to be rejected."

[Al-Bukhari & Muslim]


http://fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/hadith05.htm

:giggling: i thought u would have stated what he said who the holyspirt was without my asking....but since u didnt...what did he say about it?
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Jayda
09-11-2006, 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
When it comes to actual worship (eg. praying, fasting, day of Jumm'ah) and things surrounding/affecting that, then things arent supposed to be changed but rather followed as stated in the hadith and in the Quran. If they are changed or added, they are called Bid'ah or innovations. The prophet (saw) advised that innovations are to be rejected thus muslims today are realizing this and are refraining from doing this.

It is narrated on the authority of the Mother of the Believers, Umm 'Abdullah 'Aishah, radiyallahu 'anha, that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, said:

"Whosoever introduces into this affair of ours (i.e. into Islam) something that does not belong to it, it is to be rejected."

[Al-Bukhari & Muslim]


http://fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/hadith05.htm
That is Islam, im talking about Christianity.

Originally Posted by sameer
:giggling: i thought u would have stated what he said who the holyspirt was without my asking....but since u didnt...what did he say about it?
I cant think of anything specifically off the top of my head...
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sameer
09-11-2006, 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
That is Islam, im talking about Christianity.



I cant think of anything specifically off the top of my head...
u said "likewise" meaning that what christians do is similar to what is done in islam. SO i had to clear it up for u and show u its not at all alike.
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Jayda
09-11-2006, 07:23 PM
No, the concept is identical. To remind you im talking about how the Church is not adding to the gospels by making rulings about christian practices, there is always an anchor in the bible.
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sameer
09-11-2006, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
No, the concept is identical. To remind you im talking about how the Church is not adding to the gospels by making rulings about christian practices, there is always an anchor in the bible.
its not identical because the church adds ways to pray, gods day and ways/times to fast. But the scholars dare not do this in islam. Theses things are already established in Quran and the sunnah. What the scholars may do is give a ruling in ones everyday life based on examples of sunnah and Quran eg. the prophet (saw) used to ride a camel for transportation to it is Halal for a person to use a car for transport....since this has no direct bearing on worship they can improvise and make rulings in that sense.
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Jayda
09-11-2006, 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
its not identical because the church adds ways to pray, gods day and ways/times to fast. But the scholars dare not do this in islam. Theses things are already established in Quran and the sunnah. What the scholars may do is give a ruling in ones everyday life based on examples of sunnah and Quran eg. the prophet (saw) used to ride a camel for transportation to it is Halal for a person to use a car for transport....since this has no direct bearing on worship they can improvise and make rulings in that sense.
They are not "adding to the gospel" you wont find little "as amended" flags next to verses. Just like when Shariah judges make decisions about transportation you dont find "and cars, buses and airplanes" scribbled in the Quran next to references about Camels.

I see no difference in this practice.
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sameer
09-11-2006, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
They are not "adding to the gospel" you wont find little "as amended" flags next to verses. Just like when Shariah judges make decisions about transportation you dont find "and cars, buses and airplanes" scribbled in the Quran next to references about Camels.

I see no difference in this practice.
lol..........
U or someone said that the church added in things liek fasting (advent) . Fasting is a form of worship, is it not? Show me how that identical to camel and cars which has nothing to do with worship?
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Jayda
09-11-2006, 09:35 PM
No, I said the Church added that to Christian practices under the authority of the Holy Spirit. I do not know what the Church classifies as forms of worship, I also did not say they added to the gospels.
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ManchesterFolk
09-11-2006, 09:42 PM
Fasting is a form of worship, is it not?
It is a form of commitment.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-11-2006, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by ManchesterFolk
It is a form of commitment.
It is a form of Worship in Islam.
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Jayda
09-11-2006, 09:50 PM
I didnt know that...
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
09-11-2006, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
I didnt know that...
Indeed. It is the third of the 5 pillars of Islam.

See:

http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/n...service_id=894

:)


:w:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
09-11-2006, 09:55 PM
Yea it is...im glad how this thread is turning out.
So far im not getting any headaches....
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Jayda
09-11-2006, 09:55 PM
lol interesting...

I like fasting (sounds masochistic i know), im not going to for advent this year since im pregnant but hopefully by lent i will be in condition to...
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Woodrow
09-11-2006, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
Christians are allowed to drink aren't they? So a practising christian wouldn't necessarily mean he doesn't drink?
Partialy true. Some Christian denominations do forbid the use of alcohol in any amount or any form. I believe the most notable would be the Baptists and the Mormons.
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Tania
09-12-2006, 04:49 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Partialy true. Some Christian denominations do forbid the use of alcohol in any amount or any form. I believe the most notable would be the Baptists and the Mormons.
The mormons also allows the several marriages-polygamy
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sameer
09-12-2006, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
lol interesting...

I like fasting (sounds masochistic i know), im not going to for advent this year since im pregnant but hopefully by lent i will be in condition to...
Im sorry, i thought u knew that fasting is a form of worship to muslims and I assumed that fasting is regarded the same way for u also. So what does the church classify as acts of worship?

hmmm u better take it easy and not do anything to deny that baby some nourishment:)
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sameer
09-12-2006, 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by Tania
The mormons also allows the several marriages-polygamy
ok.?

what does the church say about polygamy? does the bible talk about this?
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Jayda
09-12-2006, 12:58 PM
lol babies... im delivering twins (freaked out!!)

i dont know what the church classifies as an act of worship... but i know the vatican makes a difference between acts of worship, commitment, devotion, adoration and veneration
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Jayda
09-12-2006, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
ok.?

what does the church say about polygamy? does the bible talk about this?
mormons arent really christians... they have their own prophet and do not believe in the unity of God... polygamy is not allowed by the church...
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sameer
09-12-2006, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
lol babies... im delivering twins (freaked out!!)

i dont know what the church classifies as an act of worship... but i know the vatican makes a difference between acts of worship, commitment, devotion, adoration and veneration
wow...congrats!


hmm I think u should really find out what is classified as an act of worship....beacuse dont u need to know what to do if u want to really worshiping God? I assume worshipping would take precedence over the rest?

Maybe someone else can explain the terms and the differences?
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Jayda
09-12-2006, 01:05 PM
Gracias,

lol well... i do everything im supposed to when im supposed to for the purpose of pleasing God and reflecting on him, so i dont think it really matters if i know how the vatican classifies it while im doing it...
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sameer
09-12-2006, 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
Gracias,

lol well... i do everything im supposed to when im supposed to for the purpose of pleasing God and reflecting on him, so i dont think it really matters if i know how the vatican classifies it while im doing it...
so dont u wanna know if ure actually "worshiping" God ? suppose ure doing something thats not the reccomended way by Jesus? or the holy spirit?
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Jayda
09-12-2006, 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
so dont u wanna know if ure actually "worshiping" God ? suppose ure doing something thats not the reccomended way by Jesus? or the holy spirit?
Here is what the Church says about worship.

And this is from the Catholic encyclopedia

The word worship (Saxon weorthscipe, "honour"; from worth, meaning "value", "dignity", "price", and the termination, ship; Lat. cultus) in its most general sense is homage paid to a person or a thing. In this sense we may speak of hero-worship, worship of the emperor, of demons, of the angels, even of relics, and especially of the Cross. This article will deal with Christian worship according to the following definition: homage paid to God, to Jesus Christ, to His saints, to the beings or even to the objects which have a special relation to God.

There are several degrees of this worship:

if it is addressed directly to God, it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecrated theological term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry.

When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration (cf. Chollet, loc. cit., col. 2407, and Bouquillon, Tractatus de virtute religionis, I, Bruges, 1880, 22 sq.).

As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728).
Worship is about who you are worshipping not how you are worshipping, obviously there is an attachment about the 'how' that you cant break God's laws to worship him... so yes i do care if i am doing something that goes against God's laws, however that is mostly common sense.
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Tania
09-12-2006, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
lol babies... im delivering twins (freaked out!!)

i dont know what the church classifies as an act of worship... but i know the vatican makes a difference between acts of worship, commitment, devotion, adoration and veneration
Adoration is for God
Devotion toward Mary
Veneration of Holy images
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sameer
09-12-2006, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
Here is what the Church says about worship.

And this is from the Catholic encyclopedia



Worship is about who you are worshipping not how you are worshipping, obviously there is an attachment about the 'how' that you cant break God's laws to worship him... so yes i do care if i am doing something that goes against God's laws, however that is mostly common sense.
I see. SO there are no specific ways of worship except probaly direct praying? eg saying grace etc?
In the same way...fasting to please God isnt worship? I know someone said it was commitment......but its hard to diffreciate .
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Jayda
09-12-2006, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
I see. SO there are no specific ways of worship except probaly direct praying? eg saying grace etc?
In the same way...fasting to please God isnt worship? I know someone said it was commitment......but its hard to diffreciate .
i dont know if fasting is worship or commitment... i think i already said i didnt know..
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Mohsin
09-13-2006, 11:27 AM
Would it be sinful according to the church to have sex out of marriage, or go do things like clubbing etc
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duskiness
09-13-2006, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by Mohsin
Would it be sinful according to the church to have sex out of marriage
yes, it's consideres a sin against "You shall not commit adultery." (6 commandment). Lust is also considered sin: "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery '.But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5;27)
Originally Posted by Mohsin
or go do things like clubbing etc
I think not. overdosing alcohol, taking drugs - yes. But dancing, drinking (a bit) with your friends - no.
on the other hand i know someone who considers dancing sinful....he is protestant
n.
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sameer
09-13-2006, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by duskiness
yes, it's consideres a sin against "You shall not commit adultery." (6 commandment). Lust is also considered sin: "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery '.But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5;27)

n.
whats the best way to aviod ure self from geting into such a situation?
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north_malaysian
09-14-2006, 08:22 AM
Originally Posted by duskiness
no, you're not alone. Not sure but it seems that Eric is also.
We have Protestants, Catholics here...now we need to find Orthodox :)
n.
Lebanese maronites are catholics too arent they? But why their priests can have wife and children?

I've seen Egyptian Coptic mass (i think it's Christmas mass on January) live on ART. They sings like Malaysian Muslims singing Barzanji in weddings or newborn celebrations.
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E'jaazi
09-14-2006, 09:44 AM
The Christianity that is practiced today is not the same as it was back then. Remember, Isa and his disciples were JEWS! They did not start a new religion, but the disciples were called Christians because they were being mocked at for being followers of Christ. Christianity was really started by Paul, whom the disciples distanced themselves away from because his teachings were contrary to the teachings of Isa. Still in fact, that Christianity is very different from what you see today.
Reply

duskiness
09-14-2006, 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Lebanese maronites are catholics too arent they?
yes
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
But why their priests can have wife and children?
Catholic Church is divided into so calles Western rite church (the "typical" Catholc Church) and Eastern rite Churches (22, Maronite among them). celibacy for all prists is a rule only in Western rite church.
list of Eastern rite Churches

Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I've seen Egyptian Coptic mass (i think it's Christmas mass on January) live on ART. They sings like Malaysian Muslims singing Barzanji in weddings or newborn celebrations.
hard to comment on that because i have never heard how Malaysian Muslim sing :D
n.

ad your sig. i have already visited Malaysia :) on 26 XII 04 i landed on Langkawi. but that wasn't the best time to see Malaysia :(
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ZOREENA
09-14-2006, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by Curious girl2
If Muslims care about the Qu'ran, the how come there are people blowing themselves and others up in the name of Islam? Because they are not true Muslims.

My own personal view is that there shouldnt be practicing homosexuals appointed as priests, anymore than so-called Muslims who defile their religion by blowing themselves and others up in the name of Islam.

Some people claim to be Christians and are not. By doing so they disrepect the religion they claim to uphold. Some people claim to be Muslim and they are not. By doing so they disrespect the religion they claim to uphold. There are bad examples in all religions.

I do not think that all the people who claim to be Christians truly follow their religion and laws. Though many do, sadly the minority give Christianity a bad name. In exactly the same way not all that people who claim to be Muslims (in fact insert ANY religion here) truly follow their religion and laws. Though many do, sadly a minority give Islam a bad name.

HTH
Peace
CG

Yes well said, just because one does it or dont do it, dont mean thatz how the religion workz, it really miffz me that people make a general statement and tar everyone with the same brush, if a Christian dont do summat dont mean they all dont or if one drinkz as somone ignorant sayz, dont mean they are all like that! Itz the same with culturez, people think the Irish are all drinkerz, fighterz, and messerz, but I can assure you, that not all are like that!! Prejudice is BAD BAD BAD!! I could go on forever!!People need to grow up and wise up, and not just follow suit and believe what they are told or hear, parentz instill this in their children, their ignornce and rudeness!!FROM ALL RELIGIONZ AND CULTUREZ!:hiding:

There are many muslimz that drink etc, and other religionz or people say, ooo sure they are out drinking and chatting up the girlz, soooooo what, they aint me and they aint representing Islam and vice versa with all religionz!!

I have an Issue with TURKISH people tho, not all of them, the ones that are working in the hotelz etc, I alwayz thought when people told me that they were 'Pervz' etc that that was a general prejudice, but really, nearly every single one of them whilst I was on holiday a while back, swatmed round us, they drink 24/7 and they just seem to be 'not the full schilling' as it were, I must say, from what I seen in the industrialised side of Turkey, they are more Westernised than the West!!
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duskiness
09-14-2006, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by blackjubba
The Christianity that is practiced today is not the same as it was back then. .
in a way your right. word has changed a chrisianity also. our theology, liturgy developed. But the core is intacked (i know that you disagree here)
Originally Posted by blackjubba
Remember, Isa and his disciples were JEWS!
yes, i know
Originally Posted by blackjubba
but the disciples were called Christians because they were being mocked at for being followers of Christ.
true, Bible (in Acts 11;26) records that it was first used in Antioch.
Originally Posted by blackjubba
Christianity was really started by Paul.
- that's a Muslim belief
Originally Posted by blackjubba
whom the disciples distanced themselves away from because his teachings were contrary to the teachings of Isa.
As Acts say Paul was accepted by James and Peter (leaders of church in Jerusalem). About Paul and others you can read in his letter and in Acts (that's about "Jerusalem council" - dispute between Paul and the rest about the way nonjewish christians should be treated).
So it seems they were in agreement.
n.
Reply

duskiness
09-14-2006, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by sameer
whats the best way to aviod ure self from geting into such a situation?
probably avoid some situations ;).. but remeber that we believe that all people are sinful. we never live up to God's law. So we will never run away from sin. Point is: we should't seek sin and try to avoid it.
n.
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ZOREENA
09-14-2006, 02:48 PM
I dont get how priestz in the Catholic church have the 'power' to absolve sins and dish out repentance to the congregation, Im not sure where and how priests evolved, I think their should be only Doctor type people of religion, not people with special powerz and authority!!
Reply

sameer
09-14-2006, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by duskiness View Original
yes, it's consideres a sin against "You shall not commit adultery." (6 commandment). Lust is also considered sin: "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery '.But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5;27)


Originally Posted by duskiness
probably avoid some situations ;).. but remeber that we believe that all people are sinful. we never live up to God's law. So we will never run away from sin. Point is: we should't seek sin and try to avoid it.
n.


Well in islam there is the the prohibition of free intermingling between sexes outside of family. This is the best way to avoid that situation. Prevention is better than cure. Also there is the wearing of Hijab, loose clothing and the lowering of ones gaze to avoid the lustfull gazing between sexes.

These things have been clearly outlined in the Quran and the Sunnah and hence muslims donnot need to add/ change/update things to the religion because everything has been dealt with. The purpose of the messenger (saw) was not only to bring the mesage but also to show us how to live the message and show us how to avoid from getting ourselves in certain situations. Thats y Allah confirms in the Quran that he has completed the favor unto mankind (religion/ guidance) with Islam.
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Jayda
09-14-2006, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by duskiness
(that's about "Jerusalem council" - dispute between Paul and the rest about the way nonjewish christians should be treated).
So it seems they were in agreement.
n.
I have a copy of what scholars believe is the declaration of the apostles from the council of jerusalem it is really interesting!
Reply

Jayda
09-14-2006, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Lebanese maronites are catholics too arent they? But why their priests can have wife and children?

I've seen Egyptian Coptic mass (i think it's Christmas mass on January) live on ART. They sings like Malaysian Muslims singing Barzanji in weddings or newborn celebrations.
They are kind of Catholic... they are like Ukrainian Catholics, in full communion with the Church but not actually part of it... i think
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