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AhlaamBella
09-07-2006, 05:48 PM
:sl:

Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see. He doesn't have faith because having worked as a cop for 17 yrs. what would you say to that?

:w:
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
09-07-2006, 05:51 PM
tell him its all about faith. some people have it some people dont, the unlucky ones dont have it.. may allah guide them. give him dawah, it maybe wil benefit him and wil benefit u 2 :) go on n on 4 ages so he agrees that der is a God :p
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AhlaamBella
09-07-2006, 05:54 PM
He knows it is all about faith. He just wishes he had some.
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UmmSqueakster
09-07-2006, 05:56 PM
How does he know wind exists? Certainly, we see the effects of the wind as it blows through the trees and grass. But we can't actually see the wind. So, does it not exist?

The same for God. We see His effects everywhere in our lives, but we don't see Him.

I've always liked this story -

Imam Abu Hanifa was a great arguer. The khalifa at the time was visited by a group of atheists who wanted to debate about the existence about God. So the khalifa set up a time for the atheists to meet with Imam Abu Hanifa. They waited and waited for Abu Hanifa and he did not show up. Right when they were about to leave, Abu Hanifa entered. So he told a story of what happened. He said he had to catch the ferry and it never came and while he was waiting the branches of a tree broke off. The leaves from this tree came off and formed rope and tied together the branches making a raft. The atheists thought of him as crazy. ...

Abu Hanifa says who is more crazy one who thinks that a boat is created by itself or the entire world is created by itself?
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
09-07-2006, 05:56 PM
tell him 2 research init, and mayb go 2 da local mosque chat 2 da imam etc
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AhlaamBella
09-07-2006, 06:03 PM
I agree. But He says that there is no evidence that is God who created the world. No evidence that he did either.
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
09-07-2006, 06:05 PM
yeh n datz wher faith n belief comes in. if he wishes he had some faith then he got 2 start somewher innit.. :?
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AhlaamBella
09-07-2006, 06:07 PM
Faith doesn't just appear over night though.
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
09-07-2006, 06:08 PM
yeah like i said tel him 2 research, find out about Islam etc.. :p lol
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Umar001
09-07-2006, 06:12 PM
Just ask him, 'Yo, My Main Man, waasupppppppp, when you arrive at a scene of a crime, you see a dead body, blood trailing from the bathroom and broken furniture, but you don't see anyone else there, would you think there was a culpurate?

He be like 'DARRRRRRRRRRRRn SKippy'

Then you be like 'Well why would you think that? I mean there aint noone you can see or hear!'

He be like 'Well, it is illogical to think that, a person is killed with a shot in the head in the bathroom, and then drags himself, while dead, all the way to the living room, I can't see who done it, I don't know, but logic tells me someone did do it, it's impossible for the wound to be self inflicted'

Then you be like 'Wham Bam, Shabang, darn detective you impressive, so why would you believe that although the universe and earth are so maticulously planned out, with all the grativational pulls being so nicely spaced, and the sun being so close and so far, not enogh to burn us nor to let us go too cold...and so on and talk to him about all that.

Then, he should think about it like that.

Peaceeeeeeeeeeee
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MusLiM 4 LiFe
09-07-2006, 06:15 PM
lol y does that sound american 2 me :rollseyes ^
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Umar001
09-07-2006, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by MusLiM 4 LiFe
lol y does that sound american 2 me :rollseyes ^
I dont know sorry, I apologyse, I jus thought cop and american, where you from I'll make it into ur dialect. InshaAllah.
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glo
09-08-2006, 01:04 PM
Faith only comes when we open our hearts to the possibility that there is 'something else out there'. As long as people keep their hearts and minds shut, God cannot or will not force himself on them.
Opening their hearts even to the possibility that God exists, requires people to admit their own needs and weaknesses.
For some that's more than they can handle ... as may be the case with this tough I'm-not-scared-of-anything-cop!

People often develop the ability to find faith at times when things are so hard that they have to admit their weaknesses and cry out to God for help!

This guy's moment may yet come ... in God's timing! :)

Peace :)
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Woodrow
09-08-2006, 01:26 PM
I actually believe everybody has faith in something. Sadly, some people have become hardened and only have faith in their own abilitites. They know what their capabilities and limitations are and that is where their faith stays.

Yet, often without realising it they will step into an automobile, have faith that the engineer who designed it knew what he was doing, the assembly line workers did everything correctly, the metal it is made of has no flaws, they have faith in the driving ability of other people where they do not fear, somebody who can't drive is going to hit them. But, they can not seem to turn loose and have Faith in Allah(swt)

I think it is safe to say that nobody deliberatly rejects faith, nor does anybody find it by looking for it. It has to come just with the experience of seeing that somebody is in control, or else all of creation would be chaos.

Faith can not be forced into a person and it is not something that is taught. It is stumbled across and found. Fortunatly, Allah(swt) gives us many opportunities to stumble across it, we just need to recognise it when we see it.
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glo
09-08-2006, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Faith can not be forced into a person and it is not something that is taught. It is stumbled across and found. Fortunatly, Allah(swt) gives us many opportunities to stumble across it, we just need to recognise it when we see it.
I agree.
I have heard these being referred to as 'God's windows of opportunity'.
Rather an appropriate description, I thought.
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- Qatada -
09-08-2006, 03:30 PM
:wasalamex


I think you should give him this link to checkout insha'Allaah:


http://www.beconvinced.com


It's really beneficial and useful insha'Allaah.


:salamext:
Reply

glo
09-08-2006, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:wasalamex


I think you should give him this link to checkout insha'Allaah:


www.beconvinced.com


It's really beneficial and useful insha'Allaah.


:salamext:
I don't seem to be able to open the link, Fi_Sabilillah.
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- Qatada -
09-08-2006, 03:40 PM
Try this insha'Allaah:


http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.php
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glo
09-08-2006, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Nope, I get an 'operation timed out while trying to contact site' message.
Could it be a very busy site?
I'll try again another time ...

Thanks anyway :)
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QuranStudy
09-08-2006, 04:14 PM
http://www.beconvinced.com/en/main.php
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~Stranger~
09-08-2006, 04:22 PM
tell him to look around and ask him if he sees bacteria or viruses?
NO!

does this mean it doesnt exist?
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glo
09-08-2006, 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by QuranStudy
Still the same ... operation timed out again.
Looks like I'm not meant to be convinced ... :rollseyes
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chacha_jalebi
09-08-2006, 05:27 PM
salaam

lol thats the typical question, bla bla how can you see worship Allah (swt) when you cant see him?

1st of all we are too low, to see god, and Allah (swt) made us so we can worship him!!

i think these questions need to be asked to the boii :D:D:D

1 - how do you know your parents love you? can you see love?

2 - how do you know we breath in air & let it out, can you see the air?

3 - erm erm are you gay:p lol naaa but these questions may sound dumb, but when a dumb question like that is asked, you have to give dumb questions back!

when i hear things like that it always reminds me of surah Baqarah v 7

khatama allahu alaa qulubeehim, wa ala samihim, wa ala absaarihim ghisa wa wa la hum adhabun azeem

Allah (swt) has sealed their hearts, and on their eyes is a covering, and for them is a great punishment

"Allah (swt) has sealed their hearts, and has put a cover on their eyes for them is punishment"
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lyesh
09-11-2006, 01:10 PM
salaam,
Give a slap to him...and ask him if he has the pain. If he says yes, you tell him tht u dont believe him coz, u cant see the pain. LOL!
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IbnAbdulHakim
09-11-2006, 01:52 PM
tell him about the scholar who gave a slap.


a boy asked,
how do u believe in somethin u cant see,
how can the shaytaan burn in hell wen his made of fire,
how can u believe in qadr


the scholar gave a slap

he said:
u screamed yet i didnt see the pain?
your cheeks and my hand are both flesh
did u kno i wud slap u since yesterday?


:salamext:


EDIT: Looks like someone beat me, lol sry lyesh atlaest my ones a bit longer :)
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
09-11-2006, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by Baby_Pearl
:sl:

Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see. He doesn't have faith because having worked as a cop for 17 yrs. what would you say to that?
Does he believe in air? You know, we've only recently developed the technology that allows us to see it. But you can DEFINATELY tell when it's gone.

Light... same principle. Light shines whether you can physically see it or not. It's day time here. It's night time half way around the world. Just because the folks on the other half of the world can't see it yet, doesn't mean it isn't shining. There are also different types of light as we know, and some can't be seen with the human eye, like UV rays. I could go on, but it's a boring argument.

Intelligence existed before flesh and matter. How else could matter have formed in an intelligent manner?

Desire formed before flesh and matter. If it didn't and we were ONLY flesh, we would have no DESIRE to risk our lives for others. We do this only because we intuitively know there is more to the picture than flesh. We come here by the hand of the people who came here before us and we'll leave here, by the hand of those who left here before us.

Not the most Islamic mindset in the world, but it's a very basic principle.

Ninth Scribe
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~*~Serene~*~
12-19-2006, 08:03 PM
interesting
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Ismile
12-19-2006, 11:55 PM
This is the test in which is called faith.
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Chuck
12-20-2006, 12:14 PM
Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see. He doesn't have faith because having worked as a cop for 17 yrs. what would you say to that?
Well, I don't see blackholes or gravity, but I believe in them. In short, I've enough indirect proof to believe in them.
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Muezzin
12-20-2006, 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by DeepOcean
:sl:

Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see. He doesn't have faith because having worked as a cop for 17 yrs. what would you say to that?

:w:
Can't see atoms or oxygen or dustmites either, but I still believe in them.
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- Qatada -
12-20-2006, 05:07 PM
The Majority of us havn't seen our brain either :)


Also, a blind person can't see the world so it doesn't mean it doesn't exist just because the person said it. And its easier to believe that something was created by someone than by no-one at all.



:salamext:
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Chuck
12-20-2006, 06:13 PM
"The Majority of us havn't seen our brain either"
Well, you can crack the skull of a dead person and see inside.
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- Qatada -
12-20-2006, 06:15 PM
:salamext:


Yeah ^^ i agree, but we still havn't seen it in our own head [even though it is possible for us to do that insha'Allah] but we havn't, yet we still believe it.
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Pygoscelis
12-21-2006, 06:17 AM
Believing that there may be something out there a kin to a godforce (chi, if you will) is a lot different than believing in a specific God of a Religion, with defined characteristics and demands.

In the end I suppose it comes down to what you get out of believing. If belief gives you comfort, gives you a sense of purpose, etc, then I say go ahead and believe.

Just don't then turn around and laugh at people who believe in other things they have no evidence for but give them something, like Santa or space men.
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Malaikah
12-21-2006, 07:51 AM
Originally Posted by DeepOcean
Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see. He doesn't have faith because having worked as a cop for 17 yrs. what would you say to that?
:sl:

Ask him how he can possible believe that the world, as amazing as it is, came into existence without being created by an Al-Mighty Creator, i.e. God.

:)
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Inshallah
12-21-2006, 08:01 AM
Originally Posted by DeepOcean
:sl:

Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see. He doesn't have faith because having worked as a cop for 17 yrs. what would you say to that?

:w:
This might be harsh but it works sometimes. Slap that person really hard across his/her face and ask them if they felt something and obviously they will say yes it hurts, now ask them could you show me that pain????

Well don't do that but i'm sure you got my point.
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glo
12-21-2006, 10:16 AM
Originally Posted by Inshallah
This might be harsh but it works sometimes. Slap that person really hard across his/her face and ask them if they felt something and obviously they will say yes it hurts, now ask them could you show me that pain????

Well don't do that but i'm sure you got my point.
Forgive me, brother, but that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Apart from inflicting pain on another human being, the analogy does not work at all.
Of course modern science and medicine has knowledge and can evidence how pain in received by nerve endings, transmitted via the nervous system and received and interpreted in the brain.
We know how the perception of pain arises, and we can make it disappear.

How does that relate to the existance of God?
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Snowflake
12-21-2006, 11:29 AM
Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see. He doesn't have faith because having worked as a cop for 17 yrs. what would you say to that?
He believes in nature but doesn't believe in God? He can't see nature either, only it's attributes. But he doesn't believe that nature is the Will of God?

Does he think that nature governs Earth perfectly on its own accord? Then why does nature wreak havoc on earth? Why doesn't it regulate itself so that there are no barren lands, droughts, floods, earthquakes and storms that cause destruction? If nature by it's own will made the day turn into the night and the night into day with perfect timing, for our benefits, then why does it have flaws?

So nature cannot be in control of itself. It cannot choose to yield vegetation on barren land. It cannot prevent climate changes, that are destructive. In short nature is not self-sufficient. That is the attribute of the Creator of the heavens and Earth alone.

Anything that is not self-sufficient must be being controlled by a higher power - a stonger force. If nature governs earth, then God governs nature.

If you take God out then you're saying that nature created itself. If nature was powerful enough to creat itself, why didn't it create itself to be self-sufficient? Nature is limited in it's power. Therefore it has a higher force governing it. That force is the Will of God.

It is the will of God that governs the entire Universe. This life is a test. If God was to show Himself then everyone would believe in Him. There'd be no test.

Does an examiner show you the answer sheet before the exam? No, that would defeat the purpose of taking an exam. Right?

He gave us His Signs to test our faith in Him. How can we pass the test if we close our eyes to them?

Only when we acknowledge these signs to be proof of God's existence, will we enlighten our hearts and minds with faith - the ultimate belief that God exists.
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Inshallah
12-21-2006, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Forgive me, brother, but that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Apart from inflicting pain on another human being, the analogy does not work at all.
Of course modern science and medicine has knowledge and can evidence how pain in received by nerve endings, transmitted via the nervous system and received and interpreted in the brain.
We know how the perception of pain arises, and we can make it disappear.

How does that relate to the existance of God?
You in believe in god but you can't see him
You believe that there is pain but you can't see it or show it.

The pain exists but you can't see it, it's the same way that god exists but you can't see him. ---

---
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glo
12-21-2006, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Inshallah
You in believe in god but you can't see him
You believe that there is pain but you can't see it or show it.

The pain exists but you can't see it, it's the same way that god exists but you can't see him. Just an example, don't need to get excited. Might not be the best answer but it makes sense.

"Well don't do that but i'm sure you got my point"

please learn how to read.......
Greetings, Inshallah

Please forgive me if I have offended you. That was not my intention.

My point was that you can show pain - through brain imaging.

peace :)
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Re.TiReD
12-21-2006, 03:10 PM
I believe in Love..I can't see it
I believe there's warmth, yet I can't see it
Common Sense (Who's seen that :? )
Cold...Can't see that....

HOWEVER....you can see these things at work...you can see love. warmth...e.t.c at work in our day to day lives, that's how we can believe they're there...

same with believing in a God...we see His wonderous signs each day...and that's what makes us believe...:) although we don't have to see Him... :w:
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Link
12-21-2006, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by DeepOcean
Someone asked me, how can you believe something you can't see ?
Salam

You mean what the physical eyes don't see? (If there such a thing as physical existence in the first place)

The Faithful see God through the eyes of heart through reality of faith, not fully grasping God but neither being blind to his light and signs and name.

ws
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New_Muslim
12-21-2006, 06:43 PM
you can't see gravity, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Les_Nubian
12-21-2006, 09:21 PM
I haven't yet been able to see air, but I breathe it every day.

There are plenty of things unseen to the human being. This world and this universe (and these multiple universes) go FAR beyond just the five human senses. We are not the end all, be all of the universe.
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SirZubair
12-22-2006, 03:23 AM
" I can see nothing," Said I, Handing it back to my friend.

" On the contrary, my dear Watson, you see everything. You fail however, to reason from what you see "

Dr.Watson and Sherlock Holmes.

The reality of perception is that our reality is perception :

* Our perception actually constructs our reality.

* It is a dynamic and active process, not just a recording of information of the REAL REALITY.

The information obtained by an observer depends upon the observer's own assumptions and preconceptions.

Unless we start to Think :

* Analyse.

* Comtemplate

* Question

* Take advice

* Give advice

* Think critically

CRITICAL THINKING IS NOT DOUBTING.

* Analysis

* Contemplation

* Questioning

* Advice and education

* Critical thinking

+

SINCERE TRUST

=

TOWARDS TRUTH.


I will not type it all out, because the PDF file that i have is pretty long, and it is too big for me to load.

SO if anyone wants to have a look through the Presentation, PM ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS within the next 24 hours and i will EMAIL it to you.

Wa'salaam
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